why i believe

JesusLovesYou
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why i believe

 When I was 12 years old I was exposed to pornography (oh how sad that its common at that age now) and I started then having sexual thoughts about both men and women.  At the young age of 15 I had my first sexual encounter with a boy a few years older than myself.  For the next few years we met up a number of times.  When I graduated High School I joined the U.S. Navy.  Upon completion of bootcamp I was sent to Pensacola to train in Avionics.  While in Pensacola I had another sexual encounter with a guy in Aircrew training.  A shipmate in my barracks, one day, invited me to come with him to a baptist church out in town.  I did.  I had grown up Catholic, not really being "religious".  I learned things I never knew about Jesus, and what the bible says about "certain things" through that church.  Though someone had me say the "sinners prayer" and la de da, I still continued on my current path.  After Pensacola I stopped by home for a couple weeks, having my first encounter with a female.  I arrived at the first duty station in KBAY Hawaii.  While in KBAY someone brought me to the United Pentecostal Church, where I worshiped for 8 years.  Through those 8 years, 3 of which were there in Hawaii, I met and slept with numerous men.  When I moved to Norfolk I had a "regular partner".  I ended up getting engaged to a girl in my church in Norfolk, but that shortly ended once she found out that I had sexual interest in men.  

 

I moved to Chicago.  I met a young lady by the name of Emily.  We are now married.  Through the time I was dating her, she witnessed to me, I got into the Bible, and understood that I have to secure my identity in Christ.  To this day I am happily married, and have not had any sort of thought towards any male, because Christ took it out of me. 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Brian37
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What does having sexual

What does having sexual thoughts have to do with a god existing? Having sexual thoughts doesn't make Allah or Vishnu real.

Now while I do not think kids should be sold porn, when I was a young teen I was curious too. There was no way my mother or dad was going to keep me from finding it somewhere or sneaking a peak. . It is how the parent reacts to it, not that that the kid is evil. 

Your post above is how religion scrambles the human. Preachers are not doctors or psychiatrists and do not know shit about human biology or human sexuality. They only sell victims like you an ancient myth.

And there is nothing wrong with being gay, or bisexual. It does not mean that you have to have or will have orgies in the street.  It does not mean you cant have healthy relationships. Again, the people who read that book and sold you that sexuality is a sin, have scrambled your brains.

Instead of listing to those bigoted assholes, you should find bi and gay groups who have positive long term relationships

I truly feel sorry for you in that religion did this to you. Yet another reason I hope you eventually get out of religion. It teaches you to hate yourself.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Emily unwittingly victimized

The more I read this the more I want to challenge religion, ALL RELIGIONS.

The trap the the books of Abraham are that they teach you that anything that goes against that book is a sin. It sets up an "in group" vs "out group", it teaches you self loathing, and teaches you to "my way or the highway". It uses threats and bribes to get you to conform.

Now, here is the real way morals should be judged. Not through some book of ancient childish myth, but through "ACTIONS".

What society did to you, what that book does to you, is what causes women in Afghanistan to be shot in the back of the head in public during soccer games. It is what caused the dark ages. It is not a good book, it is a gang manual.

If I had been your friend when you were growing up, with the knowledge I have now, I would have said to you, be yourself, fuck what others think of you, get an education, keep your nose clean, obey the law, and find a partner you can have a healthy one on one relationship with, even if it is same sex.

There are plenty of law abiding people and nice people who are not Christian in the world. I myself do NOT have any violent felonies, and I am quite sure most of the posters here have at best, traffic tickets.

I blame society and religion for what it did to you and I hope you get out of it someday. You are a victim.

You don't judge people based on their beliefs, you judge them on their ACTIONS. You don't judge people based on their sexuality, you judge them on their ACTIONS.

Our species was around long before the invention of Christianity and there are plenty of decent gays and straights that do not hold your belief, that have had the same ups and downs in life who obey the law and have healthy relationships.

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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It sounds to me like Emily

It sounds to me like Emily settled you, not god. All those years in church and you were still seeing men.

Haggard entered three weeks of intensive counseling, overseen by four ministers. In February 2007, one of those ministers, Tim Ralph, said that Haggard "is completely heterosexual."[2] Ralph later said he meant that therapy "gave Ted the tools to help to embrace his heterosexual side." On June 1, 2010 Haggard announced that he intended to start a new church in Colorado Springs.[3] In the February 2011 issue of GQ, Haggard said "...probably, if I were 21 in this society, I would identify myself as a bisexual.

I saw a special on Ted after his fiasco with his family and he was trying to find work. He was shunned by almost everyone.  Before I saw it I was glad his hypocrisy was exposed, but seeing him abandoned I ended up feeling sorry for the guy.

All those years of sexual repression from his church and religion. I'm not saying you were a hypocrite. You were repressed with the guilt from christianity. Once again they make you think you have a disease and they have the cure all ready for you.

That sexual repressoin is so often reflected by homophobia and condemning others because they make you disgusted with yourself. You see that side of yourself in others and hate them for it. It's been displayed over and over.

You weren't cured of anything my friend.  You just made a choice and settled down. And besides Emily, your hormone levels decrease with age and you no longer wanna screw every damn thing you set your eyes on.  You probably don't wake up humping the bed anymore either.

And those magazines. I wouldn't give a kid any hard porn mags either. But there's nothing wrong with a 12 yr old wanting to see some nudity. It's the most natural thing in the world. To try and hide someone from it or teach them it's all bad just promotes repression, homophobia, and sexual deviance.

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


harleysportster
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JesusLovesYou wrote: When I

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 When I was 12 years old I was exposed to pornography (oh how sad that its common at that age now) and I started then having sexual thoughts about both men and women. 

Sexual thoughts at 12 years old are called the approach of puberty. 

Where does the bible, which is full of incest. rape and stoning unwed mothers, tie in to all of this ?

I think pornography has probably done more good for younger men than browbeating them with the bible and trying to make themselves ashamed of their sexual feelings. 

From the age of 13-19, all I could think about was girls. The Catholic Church prattled on and on about mortal sin (all the while covering up pedophile priests and it happens in other churches too). 

I still think about women on a regular basis, what is so "sinful" about that ? 

After leaving Catholicism, I was promiscuous with a number of women. I have had the same girlfriend for a few years and I don't cheat on her. I didn't need an immoral and hate-filled god to "settle" me down. I just found a partner that also happened to be my close friend. She actually believes in some sort of creative force in the universe, and I am an Atheist, but our relationship is fine. 

Explain that .

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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wow, I thought it was normal

wow, I thought it was normal to see pornography at 12, since you know we hit puberty, my friends had their dad's playboys or an older brothers playboy or hustler (this was the 80's and I know that many of my male friends, the older ones, had seen that when they were kids in the 70's so not that shocking really and hasn't changed since the internet came into play), truth be told I was exposed to it at 9, yet I was never attracted to men, ever. I found out later in life, that my gay friends, had always had an attraction to men, it's genetic, some did deny it throughout their lives, others were bi-sexual and eventually married a woman, mainly because it was the thing to do. None of them needed god to do that, it was just the way they are. i don't get why you believe in god at all, but hey that's your problem really in the end, not mine.


Vastet
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Why I don't believe: No

Why I don't believe:

No religion I've had direct contact with has ever had a positive or even neutral affect on me. It is always negative.
No religion I've ever encountered made any sense.
No religion I've ever encountered could equal my ethical code, they are all weak and broken systems of morality in comparison to the ethics I developed for myself.
And there has never been any incident anywhere that suggested or proved the possibility, let alone actuality, of a god or gods.

Also, I saw my first 'porn' at 5 or 6. Walked in on my parents. Didn't affect me in any way that I can recall. Saw plenty of porn in the years after, as I went to a school which catered to all grades between 1 and 12, so there were plenty of seniors who were quite interested in sex.
Never been attracted to guys, not that there's anything wrong with such an attraction, and never had sexual relations with a guy. So your testimony has no impact on me.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


jcgadfly
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So you became a Christian

So you became a Christian because they made you scared to be gay or bi?

Should I congratulate you for suppressing your sexuality that God gave you? Or letting people bully you into it?

Or should I just start the countdown to your Ted Haggard moment?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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I urge Christians and alike

I urge Christians and alike to use their heads for a change.

I understand you, I really do. I grew up in a Christian family with devoted grand parents. I was baptized and did the catholic First Communion. I understand the sexual repression of church.

I remember feeling guilty for masturbating when I was a kid. But it didn't take long for me to find out that associating religion with with personal sex life is just stupid.

Just take a hard look at life as it is. Look at the different religions as they vehemently say they are the true one. Take a look at differences and similarities between religions. Study, impartially their historical context and origins.

Take a look at life and what day to day life has to teach you. Forget the books for a while.

Take a look and study honest people. There are honest people in every religion, political spectrum and sexual orientation. You will realize that the best school you have is no book but your life.

Religion, shouldn't and don't have ANY moral authority to say anything about sexual orientation. 

If God puts people in eternal damnation because they are biologically made to feel homosexual attraction, and are on any other regards good and honest humans... This is not my God but a wicked being who delights on the suffering of others.

Take a look at those moments of bliss in your life. The look at an honest thank you, an honest I love you, a felted embrace, a friendly smile... In those brief moments in time you will feel the true and only "God". A common God from Apache to the Māori. The Bible has no meaning, it's only a story made by kings and shepherds more than 2000 years ago. Your salvation and your freedom is within you. 

Learn and love. Don't close your eyes, love and mind to reality.

Remember: You don't have to be like most who only see 2 options in life: Democrats/republicans - black/white - Christianity/Atheism... There are more options in life.

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


Brian37
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jcgadfly wrote:So you became

jcgadfly wrote:

So you became a Christian because they made you scared to be gay or bi?

Should I congratulate you for suppressing your sexuality that God gave you? Or letting people bully you into it?

Or should I just start the countdown to your Ted Haggard moment?

Don't use that as an example unless you explain it fully. Simply putting it like that makes people like the OP go "you're proving my point"

Haggart's crime wasn't being gay. Haggarts crime was, first and foremost, lying to himself and not being himself. I will say he did so because of the bullshit society sold him.

His crime was not being gay. His crime was having unregulated sex and illegal prostitution and doing illegal drugs. If he had been openly gay had was not braking any law or having sex in public, he wouldn't have been lying.

I'd tell Haggart the same thing I am telling this guy. If you are gay, just accept it and don't worry about what the fuck bigots think of you. But you need to still obey the law, just like it would be illegal for a man and women to have sex in public. Just like it would be if a heterosexual man, not even having sex, got caught smoking crack.

I really hate it when people say "I have had something bad happen to me, and god saved me".

Good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. I have had ups and downs in my life and so has every human being. Someone's religion, race, nationality, or even sexual orientation will not mean their life will be all bad or all good. Labels do not automatically make someone bad or good.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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jcgadfly
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Brian37 wrote:jcgadfly

Brian37 wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

So you became a Christian because they made you scared to be gay or bi?

Should I congratulate you for suppressing your sexuality that God gave you? Or letting people bully you into it?

Or should I just start the countdown to your Ted Haggard moment?

Don't use that as an example unless you explain it fully. Simply putting it like that makes people like the OP go "you're proving my point"

Haggart's crime wasn't being gay. Haggarts crime was, first and foremost, lying to himself and not being himself. I will say he did so because of the bullshit society sold him.

His crime was not being gay. His crime was having unregulated sex and illegal prostitution and doing illegal drugs. If he had been openly gay had was not braking any law or having sex in public, he wouldn't have been lying.

I'd tell Haggart the same thing I am telling this guy. If you are gay, just accept it and don't worry about what the fuck bigots think of you. But you need to still obey the law, just like it would be illegal for a man and women to have sex in public. Just like it would be if a heterosexual man, not even having sex, got caught smoking crack.

I really hate it when people say "I have had something bad happen to me, and god saved me".

Good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. I have had ups and downs in my life and so has every human being. Someone's religion, race, nationality, or even sexual orientation will not mean their life will be all bad or all good. Labels do not automatically make someone bad or good.

 

 

Thank you for that addition. My primary point was to call a hypocrite a hypocrite. He didn't stop being gay just because he married a girl (assuming it's not bull in the first place). He is as he believes his God made him (no matter how vehemently he denies it).

The thing I don't like about people saying "I have had something bad happen to me, and god saved me"" in this case is that nothing bad actually happened to him.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Brian37
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jcgadfly wrote:Brian37

jcgadfly wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

So you became a Christian because they made you scared to be gay or bi?

Should I congratulate you for suppressing your sexuality that God gave you? Or letting people bully you into it?

Or should I just start the countdown to your Ted Haggard moment?

Don't use that as an example unless you explain it fully. Simply putting it like that makes people like the OP go "you're proving my point"

Haggart's crime wasn't being gay. Haggarts crime was, first and foremost, lying to himself and not being himself. I will say he did so because of the bullshit society sold him.

His crime was not being gay. His crime was having unregulated sex and illegal prostitution and doing illegal drugs. If he had been openly gay had was not braking any law or having sex in public, he wouldn't have been lying.

I'd tell Haggart the same thing I am telling this guy. If you are gay, just accept it and don't worry about what the fuck bigots think of you. But you need to still obey the law, just like it would be illegal for a man and women to have sex in public. Just like it would be if a heterosexual man, not even having sex, got caught smoking crack.

I really hate it when people say "I have had something bad happen to me, and god saved me".

Good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. I have had ups and downs in my life and so has every human being. Someone's religion, race, nationality, or even sexual orientation will not mean their life will be all bad or all good. Labels do not automatically make someone bad or good.

 

 

Thank you for that addition. My primary point was to call a hypocrite a hypocrite. He didn't stop being gay just because he married a girl (assuming it's not bull in the first place). He is as he believes his God made him (no matter how vehemently he denies it).

The thing I don't like about people saying "I have had something bad happen to me, and god saved me"" in this case is that nothing bad actually happened to him.

I really feel sorry for people like Haggart and this guy. Because if they ever do the right thing and accept themselves, they face another battle dealing with the the reality that those who they love, but pumped them up with this bullshit, they will have to face them. I only hope that if or when they do this, they can have the courage to know that no matter who disowns them, and there will be people who will, but there will be tons of support from people like us.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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GIVE ME A BREAK

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 When I was 12 years old I was exposed to pornography (oh how sad that its common at that age now) and I started then having sexual thoughts about both men and women.  At the young age of 15 I had my first sexual encounter with a boy a few years older than myself.  For the next few years we met up a number of times.  When I graduated High School I joined the U.S. Navy.  Upon completion of bootcamp I was sent to Pensacola to train in Avionics.  While in Pensacola I had another sexual encounter with a guy in Aircrew training.  A shipmate in my barracks, one day, invited me to come with him to a baptist church out in town.  I did.  I had grown up Catholic, not really being "religious".  I learned things I never knew about Jesus, and what the bible says about "certain things" through that church.  Though someone had me say the "sinners prayer" and la de da, I still continued on my current path.  After Pensacola I stopped by home for a couple weeks, having my first encounter with a female.  I arrived at the first duty station in KBAY Hawaii.  While in KBAY someone brought me to the United Pentecostal Church, where I worshiped for 8 years.  Through those 8 years, 3 of which were there in Hawaii, I met and slept with numerous men.  When I moved to Norfolk I had a "regular partner".  I ended up getting engaged to a girl in my church in Norfolk, but that shortly ended once she found out that I had sexual interest in men.  

 

I moved to Chicago.  I met a young lady by the name of Emily.  We are now married.  Through the time I was dating her, she witnessed to me, I got into the Bible, and understood that I have to secure my identity in Christ.  To this day I am happily married, and have not had any sort of thought towards any male, because Christ took it out of me. 

Where the @&#% is the proof for God in any of this!?

Give me a break. Sexual thoughts when your young...welcome to puberty. It happens to us all. There is no shame in that.

And don't sell us that nonsense you have no more "thoughts towards any male." We all know you still have some thoughts for at least one male (with his well groomed beard, his nice shiny blue eyes, that tan slim gentle body, and that you actually think he completely loves you with all his heart - your own user name "JesusLovesYou" testifies to that -  and this man demands you love him back) - and if you are as devout as you claim you are, you give this one man A LOT of thought daily. And I for one am looking forward to your big Ted Haggard moment, just like the rest of closeted converts.

Seriously, rewrite this whole thing for anyone whose spouse turned them into a Hindu or a vegetarian. This story reveals absolutely nothing about a altering of lifestyles, now all you are is convinced that your wife's favorite fable is true.

Stories like these show us no independent evidence or proof for said ancient fables. They may be cute stories of changed lives, but they do not give any good reason (or for that matter ANY reason) to accept such views as true. I do not have a doubt you will accept a drug-addict escaping his problems by becoming a Muslim is a cute story too, but you will undoubtably deny the validity of Islam - not for any spiritual reasons but because this Muslim has failed to meet the burden of proof.

I do not know what you were expecting this story of yours will accomplish. If it was aiming to appeal to our hearts, my heart only bleeds for how hoodwinked by religion you have become. If you were hoping to change any minds, then what you and the rest of your ilk need to get through your skulls is that if you want to change a thinker's mind, you go for the mind and not his soft spot. I would invite you to try again, but I think you have long emptied your arsenal of theological BS duds on this site and watched as we dissected each dud and exposed the lousy and smelly contents from within.


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Moralists r wonderfully wonderful but . . .

 

Moralists r wonderfully wonderful  but how is it even that relevant ? 

SoonToBecomeMoralist wrote:
'why i believe'
.    A moralist argument is used by some many variant groups ,even those I hear have been engaged in 'deifying Mary'.

 

    Closing thought forgive the Medieval phrasing of the Wycliffe, The Bible   'A fool receiveth not the words of prudence; no but thou sayest those things, that turn in his heart'.  Modern Translation :: Prov. 18:2 (NKJV)  "A fool has no delight in understanding, But in the expressing of his own heart'"  -- found in this context with a double-meaning.

 

 

 


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When I was 12 years old

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

When I was 12 years old I was exposed to pornography (oh how sad that its common at that age now) and I started then having sexual thoughts about both men and women.  At the young age of 15 I had my first sexual encounter with a boy a few years older than myself.  

I moved to Chicago.  I met a young lady by the name of Emily.  We are now married.  Through the time I was dating her, she witnessed to me, I got into the Bible, and understood that I have to secure my identity in Christ.  To this day I am happily married, and have not had any sort of thought towards any male, because Christ took it out of me. 

 

the hormone testosterone began coursing through my veins and I became a sexual being. Yes, JLY. You are normal. And don't worry. As you get older the overwhelming sexual urges will be behind you because your testosterone levels will fall. 

The business of the homoerotic experiences of your youth is irrelevent. Plenty of people have had them, including me, and gone on to be tediously straight. It's called sexual exploration and it's a perfectly, boringly normal.

Your argument constitutes a rather unsavoury and bigoted fallacious appeal to consequences. We know, as you are too silly to know, that gay people have far more personal integrity and self honesty than any christian will ever have. 

 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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 it wasn't getting married.

 it wasn't getting married.  I cheated on my first fiancé with guys.  it wasn't experimentation.  experimentation is once or twice.  This was 10 years.  I finally understood what i meant to be transformed, and that my identity lies in Christ. 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote: it

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 it wasn't getting married.  I cheated on my first fiancé with guys.  it wasn't experimentation.  experimentation is once or twice.  This was 10 years.  I finally understood what i meant to be transformed, and that my identity lies in Christ. 

You say you were "transformed".  Tell me-what are your thoughts on tanssexuals?

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


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JesusLovesYou wrote: it

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 it wasn't getting married.  I cheated on my first fiancé with guys.  it wasn't experimentation.  experimentation is once or twice.  This was 10 years.  I finally understood what i meant to be transformed, and that my identity lies in Christ. 

So if you cheated on your first fiance with women that would make it ok?

You lied to yourself and your partner, that was your crime, not being bi or gay.

And if you were doing it with guys for 10 years, then YOU need to consider that you are gay, instead of pretending to swallow bullshit bible crap and accept that you like men.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 When I was 12 years old I was exposed to pornography (oh how sad that its common at that age now) and I started then having sexual thoughts about both men and women.

Sex starts around 12 regardless of the source. The Sears catalog will do as well.

Quote:
At the young age of 15 I had my first sexual encounter with a boy a few years older than myself.  For the next few years we met up a number of times.  When I graduated High School I joined the U.S. Navy.  Upon completion of bootcamp I was sent to Pensacola to train in Avionics.  While in Pensacola I had another sexual encounter with a guy in Aircrew training.  A shipmate in my barracks, one day, invited me to come with him to a baptist church out in town.  I did.  I had grown up Catholic, not really being "religious".  I learned things I never knew about Jesus, and what the bible says about "certain things" through that church.  Though someone had me say the "sinners prayer" and la de da, I still continued on my current path.  After Pensacola I stopped by home for a couple weeks, having my first encounter with a female.

Not in the US Navy.

Quote:
I arrived at the first duty station in KBAY Hawaii.  While in KBAY someone brought me to the United Pentecostal Church, where I worshiped for 8 years.  Through those 8 years, 3 of which were there in Hawaii, I met and slept with numerous men.  When I moved to Norfolk I had a "regular partner".  I ended up getting engaged to a girl in my church in Norfolk, but that shortly ended once she found out that I had sexual interest in men.  

I moved to Chicago.  I met a young lady by the name of Emily.  We are now married.  Through the time I was dating her, she witnessed to me, I got into the Bible, and understood that I have to secure my identity in Christ.  To this day I am happily married, and have not had any sort of thought towards any male, because Christ took it out of me.

So what is the point?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Atheistextremist
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Fine

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

it wasn't getting married.  I cheated on my first fiancé with guys.  it wasn't experimentation.  experimentation is once or twice.  This was 10 years.  I finally understood what i meant to be transformed, and that my identity lies in Christ. 

 

gays are evil and the fact you were 'cured' of your hideous, treacherous gaiety means jesus is really, really, really real and an active force for 'good' in your life. Next time you two chat can you get me some lotto predictions. My mortgage is giving me the shits.  

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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It is interesting that sex

It is interesting that sex is religions most powerful weapon. You are a young child confused by the world and what its going on in your body and along comes religion to twist that causing you to feel shame. Then true to marketing given the cure.
It really is an abusive technique and done to the most vulnerable. As the bible says teach (install shame) them when they are young and when they are old they will return.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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ex-minister wrote:It is

ex-minister wrote:
It is interesting that sex is religions most powerful weapon. You are a young child confused by the world and what its going on in your body and along comes religion to twist that causing you to feel shame. Then true to marketing given the cure. It really is an abusive technique and done to the most vulnerable. As the bible says teach (install shame) them when they are young and when they are old they will return.

Exactly ex-minister. Every religion seems hung up on sexuality and repression. They do it in the worst way possible. Take human's natural desires and pervert them into making people feel guilty, worthless and shameful. 

My family still refers to me "living in sin" simply because the girl I live with and I have not gotten married. 

What a load of bullshit. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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JesusLovesYou wrote: it

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 it wasn't getting married.  I cheated on my first fiancé with guys.  it wasn't experimentation.  experimentation is once or twice.  This was 10 years.  I finally understood what i meant to be transformed, and that my identity lies in Christ. 

So you're back to being bullied into self loathing? 

Oh wait, you're still in an intense relationship with a man aren't you?  He's just invisible and you call him "Jesus" and your brain sex with him "church".

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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 I was exposed to Playboy

 I was exposed to Playboy magazine at age 7, but I don't think that's really porn. I saw my first porn at age 11 or 12 if I remember correctly. What's the big deal and what's it got to do with the existence of God or whether or not the Bible is true? What you are referring to is a purely subjective. It sounds to me like you suffer a form of OCD which is the basis for so called "porn addiction".

"Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings."


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JesusLovesYou wrote: it

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 it wasn't getting married.  I cheated on my first fiancé with guys.  it wasn't experimentation.  experimentation is once or twice...

 

            The solution to your problem is found in scripture:

 

                   "And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire."  Mark 9:43

 

You need to castrate yourself and remove the fleshy appendage that keeps tempting you to engage in sodomy.  It's a biblical solution that's been implemented many times through history.   Just do it.

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination." Voltaire ( 1694-1778 )


Atheistextremist
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Crikey

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 

            The solution to your problem is found in scripture:

 

                   "And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire."  Mark 9:43

 

You need to castrate yourself and remove the fleshy appendage that keeps tempting you to engage in sodomy.  It's a biblical solution that's been implemented many times through history.   Just do it.

 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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So now you prefer sex and a

So now you prefer sex and a monogamous relationship with your wife to being a promiscuous bisexual, right? Could this be because you no longer have the desire to be sexually adventurous, perhaps your testosterone is much low than when you were younger. Just like men give up sports as they get older, the trill just isn't there anymore.

But the bottom line is you became a Christian and the type of Christian you are because your preferred sexual partner is one. So is that really a reason to believe? So if you had fallen in love with a Mormon, Muslim, etc... You would 'believe' in that version of god, right?

I think I know why you 'believe', it is your wife we should debating about why she believes. You're just going along to get along.

When I went to church, there would be people that would say "I looked for a job for 6 months and couldn't find one. Then I came to this church and gave my life to Jesus, the next week I got a job." It is superstition not reason.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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 When you are in Christ you

 When you are in Christ you are a NEW creature...All old things are passed away. 

I suffered from the addiction of homosexuality.  The reason I kept going back through the years that i went to various churches is because I never really understood, and never gave my life over to Christ.  In Him do I identify now.  The Holy Spirit entered into my heart and did a work in me.  

There is no superstition in the miracle working power of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  Giving your life to Jesus isn't just a statement, it isn't just acknowledging his existence.  It is a change of heart, a change of mind, a new way of life.

Atheism teaches that there is no such thing as immorality.  EVERYTHING IS OK BECAUSE NOBODY CAN JUDGE US!  

This is why teenagers are getting pregnant and dropping out of high school.  This is why women get raped.  This is why mothers kill their children because they would rather party.  This is why adultery happens, which is followed by divorce.  Marriage was NEVER meant to be a temporary relationship, yet people throw around divorce like its candy.  It brings about fatherless children and creates single mothers.  The list is endless, it goes on and on.  

Jesus Christ came, not to condemn us, but to save us from this heartache and torment that life creates.  

He delivered me out of the homosexual lifestyle.  Did I give up after my first couple prayers?  I wanted to.  I enjoyed it too much.  But God delivered me in HIS timing.  Have you, it was 10 years, but I was, at the end, brought to a place of understanding.  I finally knew what it meant to be IN Christ.  I handed my life to Him completely. 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote:This is

JesusLovesYou wrote:

This is why teenagers are getting pregnant and dropping out of high school.  This is why women get raped.  This is why mothers kill their children because they would rather party.  

The teen pregnancy rates, child abuse rates, poverty rates and crime rates are all much lower in societies with less religious belief. So this totally contradicts this assertion. How do you explain this?

JesusLovesYou wrote:

He delivered me out of the homosexual lifestyle.  Did I give up after my first couple prayers?  I wanted to.  I enjoyed it too much.  But God delivered me in HIS timing.  Have you, it was 10 years, but I was, at the end, brought to a place of understanding.  I finally knew what it meant to be IN Christ.  I handed my life to Him completely. 

So maybe you decided you prefer being a monogamous heterosexual(aka you fell in love with a woman). So you became a Christian as a result of this and not the other way around. There are a lot of men that are Christian only because their wife is. You know that don't you?

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


Atheistextremist
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Sorry JLY

 

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 

Atheism teaches that there is no such thing as immorality.  EVERYTHING IS OK BECAUSE NOBODY CAN JUDGE US!  

 

 

Atheism doesn't 'teach' anything. We are agnostic atheists. We do not know for certain there is no supernatural god given it's not possible to know either way, but we see no evidence of a supernatural god, or of anything supernatural at all. 

That is the beginning, middle and end of atheism. It's simply a position held by those who accept the primacy of empirical evidence over the vagaries of human imagination. There is no empirical evidence for any human-contrived god-eolgies. 

Morally, we judge ourselves on the basis of our strong consciences. We endeavour to harm no other and we do not claim this is due to some god-given moral sensibility but the product of our environment and of human physiology and nature. 

Thanks to mirror neurons and conscience, hurting others hurts us and so we do not hurt others. You keep confusing atheists with some idea you have in your head. Sorry. We live out here in reality-land. We are not who you think we are. 

Many of us first rejected god because monotheism is based on violent threats, is bigoted and is morally inconsistent. Christianity clashed with our sense of goodness, of rightness, and later, our sense of what could be proven to be true. 

It will interest you to consider that most of us think christians are as morally bankrupt as it is possible for a human to be. Conceptually, you would sell humanity into eternal torment for the sake of saving your own arse. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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JesusLovesYou wrote: When

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 When you are in Christ you are a NEW creature...All old things are passed away. 

I suffered from the addiction of homosexuality.  The reason I kept going back through the years that i went to various churches is because I never really understood, and never gave my life over to Christ.  In Him do I identify now.  The Holy Spirit entered into my heart and did a work in me.  

There is no superstition in the miracle working power of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  Giving your life to Jesus isn't just a statement, it isn't just acknowledging his existence.  It is a change of heart, a change of mind, a new way of life.

Atheism teaches that there is no such thing as immorality.  EVERYTHING IS OK BECAUSE NOBODY CAN JUDGE US!  

This is why teenagers are getting pregnant and dropping out of high school.  This is why women get raped.  This is why mothers kill their children because they would rather party.  This is why adultery happens, which is followed by divorce.  Marriage was NEVER meant to be a temporary relationship, yet people throw around divorce like its candy.  It brings about fatherless children and creates single mothers.  The list is endless, it goes on and on.  

Jesus Christ came, not to condemn us, but to save us from this heartache and torment that life creates.  

He delivered me out of the homosexual lifestyle.  Did I give up after my first couple prayers?  I wanted to.  I enjoyed it too much.  But God delivered me in HIS timing.  Have you, it was 10 years, but I was, at the end, brought to a place of understanding.  I finally knew what it meant to be IN Christ.  I handed my life to Him completely. 

A whole bunch of assertions and straw man arguments that prove absolutely nothing. 

You are simply parroting the christian propaganda that these self-righteous moralists assholes have been touting for years and I for one am fed up with the bullshit christian defintions of morals. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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... A SENSE OF HUMOUR AFTER ALL . . .

Atheistextremist wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 it wasn't getting married.  I cheated on my first fiancé with guys.  it wasn't experimentation.  experimentation is once or twice...

 

            The solution to your problem is found in scripture:

 

                   "And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire."  Mark 9:43

 

You need to castrate yourself and remove the fleshy appendage that keeps tempting you to engage in sodomy.  It's a biblical solution that's been implemented many times through history.   Just do it. 

 

 

 

Tho' maybe he just has a sense of humour after all.

 

 Image Enclosed:

 
 
    

   As Brigadier General McAuliffe sent as a reply to the German surrender ultimatum : "'Nuts!'" (Double-meaning)

 

  Inappropriate humor I live for and I do think Moralists are wonderful .. No PC Police Remember Rich is always watching .. If you missed for your 'dancing pleasure, [Rich's] latest blog@' --   http://richwoodsblog.com/2012/06/03/ugly-is-as-ugly-does/

 


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 I feel bad for this dude's

 I feel bad for this dude's wife.


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Vastet wrote:Why I don't

Vastet wrote:
Why I don't believe: No religion I've had direct contact with has ever had a positive or even neutral affect on me. It is always negative. No religion I've ever encountered made any sense. No religion I've ever encountered could equal my ethical code, they are all weak and broken systems of morality in comparison to the ethics I developed for myself. And there has never been any incident anywhere that suggested or proved the possibility, let alone actuality, of a god or gods. Also, I saw my first 'porn' at 5 or 6. Walked in on my parents. Didn't affect me in any way that I can recall. Saw plenty of porn in the years after, as I went to a school which catered to all grades between 1 and 12, so there were plenty of seniors who were quite interested in sex. Never been attracted to guys, not that there's anything wrong with such an attraction, and never had sexual relations with a guy. So your testimony has no impact on me.

 

You compare other ethical codes to your own unequalled ethical code. By what objective standard can you judge various ethical codes? To me, it seems that there can be no objective morality on atheism. 


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jeffreyalex wrote:   By

jeffreyalex wrote:

 

 

 By what objective standard can you judge various ethical codes?

 

   Really ?  By what objective code  can you measure a Christian who simply claims to have an objective code ?    Or a Muslim ?  or a Hindu ?

Who knows who actually has the gold standard of objective morality ?     Why should I believe the Christian God ( or any other god ) when Christians come on this board and defend genocide, slavery, incest, the possession of concubines and multiple wives just because theit God said it was okay ?  Yet their objective morality would somehow recoil at the thought of some modern day Christian behaving in any way that I have just described.  No one has Objective morality just because they say they do.

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination." Voltaire ( 1694-1778 )


ex-minister
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Facts...I don't need no stickin' facts

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 When you are in Christ you are a NEW creature...All old things are passed away. 

I suffered from the addiction of homosexuality.  The reason I kept going back through the years that i went to various churches is because I never really understood, and never gave my life over to Christ.  In Him do I identify now.  The Holy Spirit entered into my heart and did a work in me.  

There is no superstition in the miracle working power of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  Giving your life to Jesus isn't just a statement, it isn't just acknowledging his existence.  It is a change of heart, a change of mind, a new way of life.

Atheism teaches that there is no such thing as immorality.  EVERYTHING IS OK BECAUSE NOBODY CAN JUDGE US!  

This is why teenagers are getting pregnant and dropping out of high school.  This is why women get raped.  This is why mothers kill their children because they would rather party.  This is why adultery happens, which is followed by divorce.  Marriage was NEVER meant to be a temporary relationship, yet people throw around divorce like its candy.  It brings about fatherless children and creates single mothers.  The list is endless, it goes on and on.  

Jesus Christ came, not to condemn us, but to save us from this heartache and torment that life creates.  

He delivered me out of the homosexual lifestyle.  Did I give up after my first couple prayers?  I wanted to.  I enjoyed it too much.  But God delivered me in HIS timing.  Have you, it was 10 years, but I was, at the end, brought to a place of understanding.  I finally knew what it meant to be IN Christ.  I handed my life to Him completely. 

 Lack of education is why kids get pregnant. It has nothing to do with atheism. Atheism is the cause of dropping out of school doesn't make sense at all since most atheist are well educated including the 90%+ of scientist who identify themselves as atheist. It is rural backward areas of the god's country where the drop out rate is high. In the heathen cities education is regarded as an important and worthwhile persuit. The huge universities are found in the big cities which generally are quite secular. Cites are were diverse cultures meet and come to know oh, that atheist is NOT really vile, a baby eater, etc. He can actually be a friend. In the backwards the homogeny reinforces religious bias and that certain is everything you have written above. We might as well just call it plagiarism. Along with your hymnal you were handed talking points, which no true christian can stray from, cuz hell is on that side. 

When I became an atheist I dropped things. When I became a Christian I picked up a big old bag of shit as you have because resistance is futile. You are now using God Speak. You have been absorbed. You now walk like them, speak like them, dress like them. You wear their impenetrable shield to ward of any contrary evidence, such as....

 

 

 

Teen Pregnancies Highest In States With Abstinence-Only Policies

 

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/04/10/461402/teen-pregnancy-sex-education/?mobile=nc

 

 

The number of teen births in the U.S. dropped again in 2010, according to a government report, with nearly every state seeing a decrease. Nationally, the rate fell 9 percent to about 34 per 1,000 girls ages 15 through 19, and the drop was seen among all racial and ethnic groups. Mississippi continues to have the highest teen birth rate, with 55 births per 1,000 girls. New Hampshire has the lowest rate at just under 16 births per 1,000 girls.

This is the lowest national rate for teen births since the Centers for Disease Control began tracking it in 1940 and CDC officials attributed the decline to pregnancy prevention efforts. Other reports show that teenagers are having less sex and using contraception more often. Studies have backed this up. Researchers at the University of Washington in Seattle found that teenagers who received some type of comprehensive sex education were 60 percent less likely to get pregnant or get someone else pregnant. And in 2007, a federal report showed that abstinence-only programs had “no impacts on rates of sexual abstinence.”

But 37 states require sex education that includes abstinence, 26 of which require that abstinence be stressed as the best method. Additionally, research shows that abstinence-only strategies could deter contraceptive use among teenagers, thus increasing their risk of unintended pregnancy.

For example, take the states with the highest and lowest teen pregnancy rates. Mississippi does not require sex education in schools, but when it is taught, abstinence-only education is the state standard. New Mexico, which has the second highest teen birth rate, does not require sex ed and has no requirements on what should be included when it is taught. New Hampshire, on the other hand, requires comprehensive sex education in schools that includes abstinence and information about condoms and contraception.

     

 

 

 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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ProzacDeathWishThis avatar

ProzacDeathWish

This avatar of Mr Rogers giving the crooked birdie is your best ever. I cannot stop looking at it. It says so much in so little.

 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


Vastet
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jeffreyalex wrote:You

jeffreyalex wrote:
You compare other ethical codes to your own unequalled ethical code. By what objective standard can you judge various ethical codes? To me, it seems that there can be no objective morality on atheism. 

There is no objective morality. Period. All morality is subjective. Even your adopted morality is subjective to your imagined god, and you.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
When you are in Christ you are a NEW creature...All old things are passed away.

What you must do is prepare yourself for the day in the next few months when the endorphin high you are on fades. Nothing has changed but your high. Cocaine would do as well and last as long and probably be cheaper in the long run.

 

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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.

jeffreyalex wrote:
You compare other ethical codes to your own unequalled ethical code. By what objective standard can you judge various ethical codes? To me, it seems that there can be no objective morality on atheism. 

Ethics and morality are entirely different things. You should know that by now. Odd that you do not ... or at least pretend you do not.

Medical ethics is Do No Harm. Morality is not suffering a witch to live.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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jeffreyalex wrote:Vastet

jeffreyalex wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Why I don't believe: No religion I've had direct contact with has ever had a positive or even neutral affect on me. It is always negative. No religion I've ever encountered made any sense. No religion I've ever encountered could equal my ethical code, they are all weak and broken systems of morality in comparison to the ethics I developed for myself. And there has never been any incident anywhere that suggested or proved the possibility, let alone actuality, of a god or gods. Also, I saw my first 'porn' at 5 or 6. Walked in on my parents. Didn't affect me in any way that I can recall. Saw plenty of porn in the years after, as I went to a school which catered to all grades between 1 and 12, so there were plenty of seniors who were quite interested in sex. Never been attracted to guys, not that there's anything wrong with such an attraction, and never had sexual relations with a guy. So your testimony has no impact on me.

 

You compare other ethical codes to your own unequalled ethical code. By what objective standard can you judge various ethical codes? To me, it seems that there can be no objective morality on atheism. 

 

...

 

Are you saying that someone who is atheist cannot have morality?

Secularist, Atheist, Skeptic, Freethinker


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Remember when we all think back on this & laugh :

 

Quote:
ProzacDeathWish avatar of Mr Rogers giving the crooked birdie is your best ever

    I laugh until I am miserable

   Lighting a light in a dark time ProzacDeathWish

 

     Enclose Image  ..........        
    

  These hard chestnuts in the bible really get you to think .. Let me know . Not in accordance with what is morally right .. You guessed it the 'OP' . .

 


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

jeffreyalex wrote:

 

 

 By what objective standard can you judge various ethical codes?

 

   Really ?  By what objective code  can you measure a Christian who simply claims to have an objective code ?    Or a Muslim ?  or a Hindu ?

Who knows who actually has the gold standard of objective morality ?     Why should I believe the Christian God ( or any other god ) when Christians come on this board and defend genocide, slavery, incest, the possession of concubines and multiple wives just because theit God said it was okay ?  Yet their objective morality would somehow recoil at the thought of some modern day Christian behaving in any way that I have just described.  No one has Objective morality just because they say they do.

 

Don't jump the gun. I posed a question. I didn't claim that Muslims, or whoever, know what is objectively right. 


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Vastet wrote:jeffreyalex

Vastet wrote:
jeffreyalex wrote:
You compare other ethical codes to your own unequalled ethical code. By what objective standard can you judge various ethical codes? To me, it seems that there can be no objective morality on atheism. 
There is no objective morality. Period. All morality is subjective. Even your adopted morality is subjective to your imagined god, and you.

 

But then you have no way to say that your moral code is superior. When you say your moral code is better all you are really saying is that you like it more, isn't that right?


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ThunderJones

ThunderJones wrote:

jeffreyalex wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Why I don't believe: No religion I've had direct contact with has ever had a positive or even neutral affect on me. It is always negative. No religion I've ever encountered made any sense. No religion I've ever encountered could equal my ethical code, they are all weak and broken systems of morality in comparison to the ethics I developed for myself. And there has never been any incident anywhere that suggested or proved the possibility, let alone actuality, of a god or gods. Also, I saw my first 'porn' at 5 or 6. Walked in on my parents. Didn't affect me in any way that I can recall. Saw plenty of porn in the years after, as I went to a school which catered to all grades between 1 and 12, so there were plenty of seniors who were quite interested in sex. Never been attracted to guys, not that there's anything wrong with such an attraction, and never had sexual relations with a guy. So your testimony has no impact on me.

 

You compare other ethical codes to your own unequalled ethical code. By what objective standard can you judge various ethical codes? To me, it seems that there can be no objective morality on atheism. 

 

...

 

Are you saying that someone who is atheist cannot have morality?

 

An atheist can have distinctions between right and wrong, just like a theist might. What I'm saying is that in an atheist world, and on the atheist view, those distinctions aren't really about right and wrong, good or evil. They're merely equivalent to statements about what you do or don't like. 

For example, "It is wrong to kill 8 year olds" doesn't mean anything beyond, say, "It upsets people when 8 year olds are killed". 


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jeffreyalex wrote:But then

jeffreyalex wrote:

But then you have no way to say that your moral code is superior.

No objective way, but since it's a subjective question that is irrelevant. As long as it is superior to every other ethical system subjectively, it is superior and the best fit for me.

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When you say your moral code is better all you are really saying is that you like it more, isn't that right?

It doesn't have anything to do with like. My ethics are based on what I don't like. I don't like hurting people or being hurt, so in my system there'd have to be a damn good reason to hurt someone, and I'd probably feel bad about it even if the alternative to hurting someone was worse (hurting many people, as a possible example).
I don't like depriving someone who has nothing to line the pockets of someone who has a jet, and so I espouse socialism over capitalism.

If I listed my entire ethical code, you'd find that every single part of it is based on a thought or action that I dislike.

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Every time I see the ethics

Every time I see the ethics of a religion, all I see is causing harm or death, theft, slavery, and a minor quibble about killing that ALWAYS has a catch 22.

No thanks.

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Vastet wrote:Every time I

Vastet wrote:
Every time I see the ethics of a religion, all I see is causing harm or death, theft, slavery, and a minor quibble about killing that ALWAYS has a catch 22. No thanks.

I also think that it is fair to point out, if a deity is the sole arbiter of ethics, then that deity can change those ethics at any time. Which takes away the right for me to form my own ethics. 

I am not gay, but I have no problem with them. Why ? Because I see no reason to, I don't need a deity to tell me who I have to have a problem with.

I do not see anything wrong with sex outside of marriage, because I see no reason for it to be a problem. I don't need a deity to tell me whether it is right or wrong.

If theists were to find out there was no god, are they saying that they would accept gay marriage or any of their other minor hang-ups that they make such a HUGE deal out of ? 

Whether I were to find out a god existed or not has nothing to do with my ethics. 

If god existed and he was the sadistic god of the bible, I would reject him. If Allah actually existed, I would reject him. 

If the existence of an indifferent creator existed, then it would not matter one way or the other. 

If the existence of a creator that interferes were to be proven, then that would cancel out independence and it would make no difference. My ethics would still be mine and mine alone. 

I am not the arbiter of morals nor do I try to be. That's why I resent religious institutions for trying to FORCE their ideas into government office and onto innocent people. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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Vastet wrote:jeffreyalex

Vastet wrote:
jeffreyalex wrote:

But then you have no way to say that your moral code is superior.

No objective way, but since it's a subjective question that is irrelevant. As long as it is superior to every other ethical system subjectively, it is superior and the best fit for me.
Quote:
When you say your moral code is better all you are really saying is that you like it more, isn't that right?
It doesn't have anything to do with like. My ethics are based on what I don't like. I don't like hurting people or being hurt, so in my system there'd have to be a damn good reason to hurt someone, and I'd probably feel bad about it even if the alternative to hurting someone was worse (hurting many people, as a possible example). I don't like depriving someone who has nothing to line the pockets of someone who has a jet, and so I espouse socialism over capitalism. If I listed my entire ethical code, you'd find that every single part of it is based on a thought or action that I dislike.

 

Suppose Bob likes hurting people. He likes taking from the weak and poor so that he can have what he wants. (He dislikes being nice. He dislikes being compassionate.) 

In his moral system, it is right to harm and take from others what he hasn't worked for. 

 

Would you admit that he's right for him, and you're right for you, but neither of you are more right or more wrong than the other?


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I look at Bob, and I look at

I look at Bob, and I look at 10 billion other people throughout history.

I see Bob is in a significant minority.

I look at medical history, and see Bob got speared through the head as a young man. Up until that day, Bob was like everyone else. After that day, Bob became a total dick.

Clearly Bob has something wrong with him, that stems from that head injury.

This is Bob: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

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I look at me, and compare

I look at me, and compare with 10 billion other people throughout history.
I see no significant differences that aren't accounted for by progress in technology and communication.

Most people share most of my ethics through all history. Those that don't can be easily explained by various minutae that'd take a book five times bigger than the bible to thoroughly explain.

Clearly there's nothing wrong with me that isn't wrong with most everyone, and I have nothing to fear in following my ethics.

If there's a god who doesn't like it, he'd best get off his ass and tell me. I'm already at least a third of the way through my projected lifespan, and may be as much as 99.9%. Time's a wastin'.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.