My New Response to Pascal's Wager

Zaq
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My New Response to Pascal's Wager

http://silverskeptic.blogspot.com/2012/06/pete-and-zaqs-excellent-wager.html

 

Become an Atheist and you could save a child from eternal torture.  Sure it's a stretch, but it's still possible.  And since a saving a child's soul is an infinite reward, shouldn't we all become atheists?

Questions for Theists:
http://silverskeptic.blogspot.com/2011/03/consistent-standards.html

I'm a bit of a lurker. Every now and then I will come out of my cave with a flurry of activity. Then the Ph.D. program calls and I must fall back to the shadows.


ex-minister
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Here's oldie but goodie

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


harleysportster
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Zaq

Zaq wrote:

http://silverskeptic.blogspot.com/2012/06/pete-and-zaqs-excellent-wager.html

 

Become an Atheist and you could save a child from eternal torture.  Sure it's a stretch, but it's still possible.  And since a saving a child's soul is an infinite reward, shouldn't we all become atheists?

LOL. That was pretty good ZAQ.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


ex-minister
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The same man also wrote

The same man also wrote

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


harleysportster
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ex-minister wrote:The same

ex-minister wrote:

The same man also wrote

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal

Strange how the theists never bring that one up. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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harleysportster

harleysportster wrote:

ex-minister wrote:

The same man also wrote

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal

Strange how the theists never bring that one up. 

 

That's a good point. As the late great Chris Hitchens always challenged: "name me one good deed a theist has done that an atheist could not have done." I'd agree it often takes religion, or some other unreasonable blind dogma (isn't that the same as religion, though?), to get an otherwise good and reasonable man to do awful things. 


EXC
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Zaq wrote:And since a saving

Zaq wrote:

And since a saving a child's soul is an infinite reward, shouldn't we all become atheists?

Depends on the version of God. The one of the Holy bible kills babies and tells his followers to kill them as well.

My take on Pascal's wager is I there is a zero percent probablity I would want to spend eternity with a God that arranged the universe in this way or with the Christians that 'believe' that only they picked the correct version of god to believe in. Hardly sounds like 'infinite reward' to only have 'believers' around.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


A_Nony_Mouse
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The answer to the wager is found in Southpark

The daily intake to hell is being lectured by some flunky demon. One stands up and declares he was a righteous protestant. The demon replies, Sorry, the correct answer there was Morman.

If the wager were only two valued then it is an interesting wager. But as the odds are thousands to one against guessing which is the correct religion the wager needs be considered first by believers among themselves.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Zaq
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But due to possibilities

But due to possibilities (however slight) like what I have presented here, the wager can no longer be used in even the "You should be a theist (of some unkown type) instead of an atheist."  Pointing out that you don't know which theism is rewarded doesn't significantly weaken the wager's use against atheism.  It's pointing out that even atheism could conceivably be rewarded that really kills the idea.

Questions for Theists:
http://silverskeptic.blogspot.com/2011/03/consistent-standards.html

I'm a bit of a lurker. Every now and then I will come out of my cave with a flurry of activity. Then the Ph.D. program calls and I must fall back to the shadows.


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Very witty dude, I enjoyed

Very witty dude, Smiling I enjoyed the read

 


A_Nony_Mouse
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.

Zaq wrote:
But due to possibilities (however slight) like what I have presented here, the wager can no longer be used in even the "You should be a theist (of some unkown type) instead of an atheist."  Pointing out that you don't know which theism is rewarded doesn't significantly weaken the wager's use against atheism.  It's pointing out that

even atheism

could conceivably be rewarded that really kills the idea.

It makes all the difference in the world. It is no longer a two valued result. All but one of the religions are just as bad as atheism when it comes to choosing. What are the chances of guessing the correct answer from all the answers? They are lower than the odds of picking the winning number and color at roulette.

As I said, something Christians need to settle among themselves before taking on the hundreds of other religions. Why Christians bother picking a particular sect when there is only one correct one and the odds are so against guess the right one?

The wager is set as a huge loss vs minor penalty for choosing theism over atheism so the risk reward tradeoff is obvious. It is losing a very small wager if theism if wrong against a huge reward if theism is right.

In the "real" wager atheism is as bad a choice as all but one version of theism. In this case the chances of losing the small wager are hundreds to one in favor of losing.

Even the original form has a hidden loss mechanism, adequate performance of theism which essentially has to mean faith alone and believers can sin all they want. Anything short of an absolute guarantee that theism equals heaven materially changes the wager. As soon as one adds perfect performance of theism the wager is atheism against proper performance of theism. That depends on how hard it is to get into heaven.

Then add all the religions and include proper performance of those religions and if one chooses the wrong religion perfect performance of it is worthless. It is no different from atheism.

In the real world the wager is can you pick the correct religion and then expect perfect performance of that religion? If no or even very highly unlikely then atheism is no different from the wrong theism.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml