Why haven't intelligent Republicans spilit from their joke of a party and formed a new one?

Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10146
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Why haven't intelligent Republicans spilit from their joke of a party and formed a new one?

For decades, the only two parties in Canada which stood a chance of election were the Liberals (Democrats) and the Conservatives (Republicans). Today, the Liberals are shut out and the Conservatives no longer exist. Their party merged with the Reform party to create something new. While the Liberals have simply slumped into 3rd place, at best.

I'd say the differences between Canada and the US are trumped by their similarities, and think if the Americans who identify as Republicans but aren't batshit crazy made their own party, they'd stand a fair chance at replacing the current Republican party within a decade.

What say you? Particularly those of you who identify as Republican?

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Jabberwocky
atheist
Posts: 269
Joined: 2012-04-21
User is offlineOffline
Looking forward to the

Looking forward to the responses here as a Canadian. If such a thing happens, as long as the new upstart party doesn't accidentally end up calling themselves CCRAP after a merger for a few days (yes, this really happened) they may do well. 

 

Theists - If your god is omnipotent, remember the following: He (or she) has the cure for cancer, but won't tell us what it is.


digitalbeachbum
atheistRational VIP!
digitalbeachbum's picture
Posts: 2647
Joined: 2007-10-15
User is offlineOffline
The party has been changing

The party has been changing for 20-25 years now as they stood for corruption and greed all the while taking away civil liberties from non-christians. Yes, that's the way I view them and I'm a republican.

I also see the party as the main reason for why the global economy is in the shit can. Yes, they are to blame. They are the ones who allowed the bank industry and the wall street fuckers to modify the policy to benefit those who would abuse it and make billions.

The republicans also have a history of spending more money and lowering taxes. They support big business and special interest groups first rather than focus on why they we voted in to office. Are the democrats any better? no. They suck also and so much that I barely like them over the republican party.

As for the "tea party", they aren't a party, they are an ideology. They are hijackers and obstructionists of progress. They are mostly old people who want to be minute men or betsy ross's living back in colonial times. Yes, that's the way I view them. They are crack heads who do more harm than good.

 

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


Beyond Saving
Silver Member
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 4172
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
 Intelligent republicans

 Intelligent republicans have already left to join the libertarian party, unfortunately intelligence isn't a trait that is well represented in american politics. Politics is far more about seizing power than thinking about real solutions. 

 

As far as why we are stuck in a two party rut, the main reason is our insane campaign finance laws. It is virtually impossible for anyone in a third party to get significant enough funding to run a competitive campaign. An individual can only donate $2500 to a particular candidate for any federal office. When political campaigns routinely run into the tens of millions it simply isn't possible for someone to raise enough money $2500 at a time without the support of the party structure unless the candidate is extremely wealthy themselves. 

 

With the Supreme Court decision in Citizens United "super pacs" are now legal which are basically organizations of people that can pool their money for political advertising. They are not allowed to coordinate with a candidate at all, but they are allowed to support or attack candidates at will. Donations to these pacs are unlimited. This development is one of the reasons the tea party has been so successful at overthrowing entrenched republicans in the primaries. I also believe that it opens a real possibility of third parties to get enough money to get serious exposure.

 

It is far easier for a third party candidate to get the support of a small group of wealthy people than it is to get thousands of people to donate small amounts. You need money to do that kind of fundraising, but you don't have the money until you do the fundraising. Right now when you need the seed money to start a campaign you go to the party structure and they have a large list of people who donate seed money to get a campaign started. Generally, this group has a lot of power to determine who the candidates will be before the primary campaigns even start. Occasionally, a candidate might be able to challenge this structure, but the vast majority of times the candidate chosen by the establishment has a large financial advantage that translates into votes. 


JesusNEVERexisted
Superfan
JesusNEVERexisted's picture
Posts: 679
Joined: 2010-01-03
User is offlineOffline
Vastet wrote:For decades,

Vastet wrote:
For decades, the only two parties in Canada which stood a chance of election were the Liberals (Democrats) and the Conservatives (Republicans). Today, the Liberals are shut out and the Conservatives no longer exist. Their party merged with the Reform party to create something new. While the Liberals have simply slumped into 3rd place, at best. I'd say the differences between Canada and the US are trumped by their similarities, and think if the Americans who identify as Republicans but aren't batshit crazy made their own party, they'd stand a fair chance at replacing the current Republican party within a decade. What say you? Particularly those of you who identify as Republican?

I really don't think you'll find many or ANY Repukes on this site! Atheists or agnostics are going to be either democratic or liberatarian.  Only the few theists on this site would probably be Repukes. Are there any theists on this site anymore??

I really think the Republican party could soon be dead in America.  With the rise in Hispanics for the first time in the U.S. minority births outnumbered whites last year! From now or soon it will just be conservative democrats vs. more liberal democrats.

In Canada, if the Liberals are now in 3rd place and the Reform party in 2nd then whose in first place?

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


TonyZXT
atheist
TonyZXT's picture
Posts: 174
Joined: 2007-09-30
User is offlineOffline
Am I the only one that

Am I the only one that thinks the whole idea of a 2 party system is outdated, and honestly a joke?  Seems like incredibly old, unimaginative thinking, and far from optimal.  Pretty sad that we haven't moved beyond it tbh.

The only people I see that have views right down party lines are the type of people who let everyone else think for themselves.  Or in the case of tea-baggers, they buy into what they know to be most convenient to their greed.

I think most people have issues where they lean one way, and others where they lean the opposite way.  For instance, I lean liberal on most social issues, but then I lean somewhat republican on economics (not this ultra-right bastardized tea party version of conservative economics run amok) I also fully support the death penalty, and the right to bear arms.  

When I see people that are full on republican or a bleeding heart liberal just because their family is, it just blatantly smacks of someone being a fundie for the same reason.  Just lemmings that don't have a mind of their own.

"They always say the same thing; 'But evolution is only a theory!!' Which is true, I guess, and it's good they say that I think, it gives you hope that they feel the same about the theory of Gravity and they might just float the f**k away."


Watcher
atheist
Posts: 2326
Joined: 2007-07-10
User is offlineOffline
I would be for the death

I would be for the death penalty if we didn't keep freeing people from death row after discovering they weren't even guilty of the crime.

We've already freed over 140 people in my lifetime from death row.

If we can fix our habit of incarcerating people that aren't guilty I say fire away.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


Teralek
Theist
Teralek's picture
Posts: 590
Joined: 2010-07-15
User is offlineOffline
Vastet wrote:For decades,

Vastet wrote:
For decades, the only two parties in Canada which stood a chance of election were the Liberals (Democrats) and the Conservatives (Republicans). Today, the Liberals are shut out and the Conservatives no longer exist. Their party merged with the Reform party to create something new. While the Liberals have simply slumped into 3rd place, at best.
 

This is pretty cool! I think an healthy democracy has more than 2 parties with a chance to win elections given an extended period of time. A democracy that stagnates in just 2 parties is no democracy at all.

So who's the party now in charge and what's their ideology?

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


Teralek
Theist
Teralek's picture
Posts: 590
Joined: 2010-07-15
User is offlineOffline
JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

 

I really don't think you'll find many or ANY Repukes on this site! Atheists or agnostics are going to be either democratic or liberatarian.  Only the few theists on this site would probably be Repukes. Are there any theists on this site anymore??
 

ME!

I'm a die hard fan. I will be again absent from july though... and only return in 2013. I can name one or 2 atheist republicans here... at least their economic ideology is conservative.

 

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


TonyZXT
atheist
TonyZXT's picture
Posts: 174
Joined: 2007-09-30
User is offlineOffline
Watcher wrote:I would be for

Watcher wrote:

I would be for the death penalty if we didn't keep freeing people from death row after discovering they weren't even guilty of the crime.

We've already freed over 140 people in my lifetime from death row.

If we can fix our habit of incarcerating people that aren't guilty I say fire away.

I wasn't aware of any statistic so high.  I think the billions and billions of dollars we spend to house criminals with multiple life sentences is ridiculous though.  Not saying we should kill them all, but it doesn't make sense to me for the taxpayer to pay for these serial rapists and killers to live out their lives costing us far more annually than I've ever made in a year ($75,000 for a super-max inmate according to a quick google search!)

Not only that, these pieces of human crap have more guaranteed necessities than I do.  They get 3 meals a day, a roof over their heads and access to far more medical care than I can afford.

 

"They always say the same thing; 'But evolution is only a theory!!' Which is true, I guess, and it's good they say that I think, it gives you hope that they feel the same about the theory of Gravity and they might just float the f**k away."


Watcher
atheist
Posts: 2326
Joined: 2007-07-10
User is offlineOffline
TonyZXT wrote:I wasn't aware

TonyZXT wrote:

I wasn't aware of any statistic so high.  I think the billions and billions of dollars we spend to house criminals with multiple life sentences is ridiculous though.  Not saying we should kill them all, but it doesn't make sense to me for the taxpayer to pay for these serial rapists and killers to live out their lives costing us far more annually than I've ever made in a year ($75,000 for a super-max inmate according to a quick google search!)

Not only that, these pieces of human crap have more guaranteed necessities than I do.  They get 3 meals a day, a roof over their heads and access to far more medical care than I can afford.

We do need to find a more cost effective way to house the prisoners.  But the food is crap from all the personal stories I've read.

And plus, it actually costs us more to put someone on death row than to house them for life.

They sit there for twenty years with constant legal appeals.  It's even worse than throwing them in with the general population for the next 60-70 years.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10146
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Quote:In Canada, if the

Quote:
In Canada, if the Liberals are now in 3rd place and the Reform party in 2nd then whose in first place?

Quote:
So who's the party now in charge and what's their ideology?

First place is the Conservative/Reform merger. Second is the New Democrats. Third is Liberal. Fourth, and rising, is Green.
For the moment, anyway.
The Conservative/Reform merger is mostly a right leaning party. Fairly equivalent to the US Democrats.
All other parties generally lean left.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Teralek
Theist
Teralek's picture
Posts: 590
Joined: 2010-07-15
User is offlineOffline
If I lived in a country like

If I lived in a country like Canada or Sweden, I would probalby vote Green.

Can't do that here... the nickname of the Green portuguese party is "watermelons"... guess why! LOL

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10146
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Lol. The Green party has

Lol.

The Green party has been around for awhile, but independents generally did better than them until recently. The last two elections have seen a surge of support, though they are still a very long way from forming a government.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


JesusNEVERexisted
Superfan
JesusNEVERexisted's picture
Posts: 679
Joined: 2010-01-03
User is offlineOffline
It's nice to hear Jeb Bush

It's nice to hear Jeb Bush speak out against the crazy right wing Repukes in his party.  He knows they'll never get anywhere if those extremists elements in the party take over!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com