Is it moral to kill when a cure options is available?

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Is it moral to kill when a cure options is available?

Is it moral to kill when a cure options is available?

It is said that God can do whatever he likes. He is after all, God. He created everything and can destroy it at a whim if he chooses to do so. I do not believe this but will grant it as a truth for this O P.

Given that God can kill or cure, and given that we are to emulate, follow and try to be like him; it would seem that we too are to believe that sometimes it is better to kill than cure. I cannot think of any good situation to do this but that is just me. Perhaps you can.

Scriptures show God killing many or having men kill many. Scriptures show God curing on a few occasions but killing seems to be his preferred method.

Life, be it from God or nature, should be venerated. God does not seem to venerate human life even as he claims man to be his most precious and loved creation and even placing us above the angels. This indicates that he should venerate our lives yet it does not seem to.

In our human world, if a doctor who could cure his patient decided to kill him, he would be jailed and considered an evil person. In the believer world, a God who could cure and decides to kill is considered good and praised for his killing. A double standard. I hope that we will all agree that for a human to kill, when a cure option is available, is evil and immoral. If you do not; please do not reply.

Is it moral for God to kill when a cure options is available?

Does your God need to have good morals or does it matter?

Regards
DL


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Greatest I am wrote:
Is it moral to kill when a cure options is available? It is said that God can do whatever he likes. He is after all, God. He created everything and can destroy it at a whim if he chooses to do so. I do not believe this but will grant it as a truth for this O P. Given that God can kill or cure, and given that we are to emulate, follow and try to be like him; it would seem that we too are to believe that sometimes it is better to kill than cure. I cannot think of any good situation to do this but that is just me. Perhaps you can. Scriptures show God killing many or having men kill many. Scriptures show God curing on a few occasions but killing seems to be his preferred method. Life, be it from God or nature, should be venerated. God does not seem to venerate human life even as he claims man to be his most precious and loved creation and even placing us above the angels. This indicates that he should venerate our lives yet it does not seem to. In our human world, if a doctor who could cure his patient decided to kill him, he would be jailed and considered an evil person. In the believer world, a God who could cure and decides to kill is considered good and praised for his killing. A double standard. I hope that we will all agree that for a human to kill, when a cure option is available, is evil and immoral. If you do not; please do not reply. Is it moral for God to kill when a cure options is available? Does your God need to have good morals or does it matter? Regards DL

Christians are constantly admonished to emulate Jesus.

Christians believe Jesus is god, identical and indistinguishable from his father.

Therefore Christians are admonished to emulate his father.

QED

Whimsical, predatious, arbitrary and caprious are the minimum standard for emulation.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

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 I think it is moral to

 I think it is moral to kill someone who has decided they want to die but for some reason cannot kill themselves. For example, in cases of someone who is paralyzed and no longer wishes to live, someone who decides not to battle cancer and would prefer to get a drug cocktail from the doctor rather than blow their brains out with a gun etc. To be moral the person being killed must consent, or in cases where the person being killed is unable to consent- such as someone severely brain damaged, the decision should be based upon what that person put in a living will. The default being not to kill unless it can be shown the person desired otherwise. 

 

The god of the bible is not moral in any sense of the word. He is a vain, selfish, cruel and vengeful character that would fit quite well as the villain in a marvel comic. 

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken


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Well I'm a Kavorkian fan,

Well I'm a Kavorkian fan, but I think your key point here is "if there is a cure option?"  The god of Abraham is a sociopathic and abusive parent.  God could have spared us all ailments but chose not to. Jesus came and supposedly healed a few, but left the rest out. But who are you to question god's ways?  Well I not only question them, I condemn them.  If I see someone kill their dog when a simple procedure at the vet would cure him, I would condemn them too. God is not above us because he does not exist.  Those who believe that he does offer no reasonable defense.

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


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Mercy killing should be

Mercy killing should be between the person performing it and the person suffering with something they no longer want to live with and has given permission to have their life ended prematurely.  If a cure exists, but the person STILL refuses to go through with it because it might make the person feel worse and there's a 50/50 chance that it won't work, we're right back at square one.  Case closed.

 

This, coupled with abortion, should not even be a debate anymore.  The "divine plan" is good enough for believers so, if that's the case, are we all to assume assisted suicides aren't part of it?  Cherry picking is for field workers, not belief systems.

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


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Beyond Saving wrote: I

Beyond Saving wrote:

 I think it is moral to kill someone who has decided they want to die but for some reason cannot kill themselves. For example, in cases of someone who is paralyzed and no longer wishes to live, someone who decides not to battle cancer and would prefer to get a drug cocktail from the doctor rather than blow their brains out with a gun etc. To be moral the person being killed must consent, or in cases where the person being killed is unable to consent- such as someone severely brain damaged, the decision should be based upon what that person put in a living will. The default being not to kill unless it can be shown the person desired otherwise. 

 

The god of the bible is not moral in any sense of the word. He is a vain, selfish, cruel and vengeful character that would fit quite well as the villain in a marvel comic. 

Lots of issues I could disagree with you on, but this is one of the few times I have to say BINGO!

I will add to this that god claims are really what Freud said, the childish narcissism of a baby wanting the mother's nipple. It is really an evolutionary trait because babies literally have nothing but the first form of communication of crying to get attention. If we didn't evolve to do that, we'd die.

God belief is merely the adult version of what a baby does in the form of our anthropomorphic projection of wanting a super parent to protect us.

God claims are merely our gap filling, but it takes our natural evolution in self preservation and twists it into what you rightfully say as marvel comic villain. It is a comic book reflection of the evolutionary trait of seeking attention and seeking to be the alpha male.

Religion and superstition DO create the benefit of "safety in numbers", just like belief that the sun was a god helped the Egyptians be successful for 3,000 years despite the fact that the sun was not a thinking being.n The downside of this is that at the same time it manifests itself into "in group" "out group" divisions.

Hitchens had one of the best descriptions of the god/s of Abraham, "A celestial North Korea".

You have no privacy, even when you go to the bathroom or have sex. You cant leave this deity, and even the mere act of not wanting to be part of his fan club is cause for cruel punishment.

 

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Good replies all. Good

Good replies all. Good minds.

I hope you all have a social conscience that pushes you to religious forums to try to educate the foolish.

I see it as our duty. You as well. I hope. 

I also hope you have not scared all the believers away from here though. That would make it unfruitful.

Regards

DL


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Brian37 wrote:  Hitchens

Brian37 wrote:

 

 

Hitchens had one of the best descriptions of the god/s of Abraham, "A celestial North Korea".

You have no privacy, even when you go to the bathroom or have sex. You cant leave this deity, and even the mere act of not wanting to be part of his fan club is cause for cruel punishment.

 

 

Not only that, god does not just punish you for your actions, he even sends you to hell for what you THINK.  That means if I look at a girl and just have a momentary fantasy, god is pissed off at me. Shit, if you really think about it, the fiction character Satan seems to be the good guy. At least he doesn't judge you. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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Greatest I am wrote:Good

Greatest I am wrote:

Good replies all. Good minds.

I hope you all have a social conscience that pushes you to religious forums to try to educate the foolish.

I see it as our duty. You as well. I hope. 

I also hope you have not scared all the believers away from here though. That would make it unfruitful.

Regards

DL

 

In my short time here I have already seen quite a few "believers" scared away. That does not mean that it was entirely unfruitful. The best we can do is to initially try to reason with them in a civil manner. There are a few that will take something with them, tho you cannot expect them to outright admit to their folly. After all, very few of them have ever had someone boldly make rubbish out of the doctrine they base their life and (supposed) eternal existence on.  Many are not here to try and reason at all, but to spout out their ridiculous claims and then childishly squat down on the floor with their arms crossed and eyes closed with only a "na-na-boo-boo" defense.  There's no point in manners after that.  That's when it's time for a good cyber humiliation and a verbal punch in the throat. 

There are some people you just can't reach. They are like one of those rare dog's that are completely un-housetrainable. I was good at raising dogs even as a little kid, but i got one of those dogs one time. A little dachshund i named "Boner". I gave him all my efforts, but i finally gave up. You know what I did with the poor dumb bastard? - I gave him to my Mom's pastor.  Evil  Last I heard they changed his name and was never successfully housetrained.  Sad

But I didn't give up on dogs, and I haven't given up on people.  I just wish people had the common sense dogs do.

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


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Thanks for this.It is hard

Thanks for this.

It is hard to say what impact we have on the minds that run because of a point of logic or reason.

We have to just see it as another nail in their coffins when they cannot refute what is said.

 

Regards

DL


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re:thread title

yes, it is. "Cure" often doesn't mean "live on with full dignity" and, as such, you can't deny a person the right to die on those terms alone.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Human to human, I agree. We

Human to human, I agree. We are limited.

Christians do not have that option though. Their mythical God can do anything.

 

Regards

DL

 

 


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US Christians don't have to

US Christians don't have to prove anything to you people - we just have to sit back and enjoy the ride, because OUR GOD is a loving GOD.  You guys have nothing but humans who hate humans and that are selfish and are evil when you don't have nothing to believe in.  Me being a Godfearing Christians will pray for you all.


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araujo03 wrote:US Christians

araujo03 wrote:

US Christians don't have to prove anything to you people - we just have to sit back and enjoy the ride, because OUR GOD is a loving GOD.  You guys have nothing but humans who hate humans and that are selfish and are evil when you don't have nothing to believe in.  Me being a Godfearing Christians will pray for you all.

 

 

 

                          Theere is no god and that jesus charactor was total fiction and you are starting to sound a whole lot like Jean Chauvin. Piss off.

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Greatest I am wrote: I hope

Greatest I am wrote:

 

I hope you all have a social conscience that pushes you to religious forums to try to educate the foolish.

 

 

         I wouldn't even try.   I can barely tolerate the few religious nut bags who come here. 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.


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araujo03 wrote:US Christians

araujo03 wrote:

US Christians don't have to prove anything to you people - we just have to sit back and enjoy the ride, because OUR GOD is a loving GOD.  You guys have nothing but humans who hate humans and that are selfish and are evil when you don't have nothing to believe in.  Me being a Godfearing Christians will pray for you all.

If your God is such a loving God, why do you fear him?

Because you fear the hate of your loving God.

Regards

DL


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:

 

I hope you all have a social conscience that pushes you to religious forums to try to educate the foolish.

 

 

         I wouldn't even try.   I can barely tolerate the few religious nut bags who come here. 

Think of it as character building.

We all have to learn to tolerate the foolish.

Regards

DL

 


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Greatest I am wrote: Think

Greatest I am wrote:

 

Think of it as character building.

We all have to learn to tolerate the foolish.

Regards

DL

 

                              

 

   Oh, believe me I agree that the average atheist should make their presence felt, but I'm not the average atheist.  I can barely tolerate being in the company of anyone.  The great majority of humanity makes me want to puke in disgust.  I assure you that I am not the cure for other people's insanity.  Read my signature.

 

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.


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Greatest I am wrote: Given

Greatest I am wrote:
Given that God can kill or cure, and given that we are to emulate, follow and try to be like him; it would seem that we too are to believe that sometimes it is better to kill than cure.

 

Oh silly athiest you don't listen to Christian radio enough.  See sure we should emulate "god" and his all-wise behavior, but we have to choose using our subjective opigion what behaviors are ment to be emulated, and which are those "mysterious" things he likes to do that are only good if you are all powerful god, if not they are very very bad things to do.  See like...  Helping people when you can like with medicine for their ailment, that's very godlike, and to be emulated, good stuff.  Causing or allowing millions upon millions of people to die horrible and unecessary deaths from starvation/disease and natural disasters, well that's not to be emulated, bad form, and only good if you are a supreme being.  So, being peaceful = good, to be emulated.  Mudering everyone you don't like man women and children in horribly painfull ways = not to be emulated and only good when god does it because the victims must have tiffed him off and deserved his devine justice.  That is because he's the president and its not illegal when the preseident does it, lol.  So again, loving your neighboor = to be emulated.  Slaughter opposing tribes = not to be emulated, only good if god does it or tells you to do it.  See...easy! 

 


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:

 

Think of it as character building.

We all have to learn to tolerate the foolish.

Regards

DL

 

As I said, it is a character builder.

If you think your character does not need or if you do not want to move it forward, that is purely your choice.

Regards

DL              

                 

 

   Oh, believe me I agree that the average atheist should make their presence felt, but I'm not the average atheist.  I can barely tolerate being in the company of anyone.  The great majority of humanity makes me want to puke in disgust.  I assure you that I am not the cure for other people's insanity.  Read my signature.

 

 

 


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NoMoreCrazyPeople

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
Given that God can kill or cure, and given that we are to emulate, follow and try to be like him; it would seem that we too are to believe that sometimes it is better to kill than cure.

 

Oh silly athiest you don't listen to Christian radio enough.  See sure we should emulate "god" and his all-wise behavior, but we have to choose using our subjective opigion what behaviors are ment to be emulated, and which are those "mysterious" things he likes to do that are only good if you are all powerful god, if not they are very very bad things to do.  See like...  Helping people when you can like with medicine for their ailment, that's very godlike, and to be emulated, good stuff.  Causing or allowing millions upon millions of people to die horrible and unecessary deaths from starvation/disease and natural disasters, well that's not to be emulated, bad form, and only good if you are a supreme being.  So, being peaceful = good, to be emulated.  Mudering everyone you don't like man women and children in horribly painfull ways = not to be emulated and only good when god does it because the victims must have tiffed him off and deserved his devine justice.  That is because he's the president and its not illegal when the preseident does it, lol.  So again, loving your neighboor = to be emulated.  Slaughter opposing tribes = not to be emulated, only good if god does it or tells you to do it.  See...easy! 

 

I see.

So you are happy to follow a law maker who breaks his own law.

You are happy with a God that says do as I say and not as I do, while at the same time telling you to do as he does.

Come back when you can reconcile your contradiction.

Regards

DL 

 

 

 


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I'm going to twist the OP to

I'm going to twist the OP to show how it could be moral.

Is it moral to cure people when overpopulation ensures that ALL people will suffer and die so we could save some, temporarily?

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Vastet wrote:I'm going to

Vastet wrote:
I'm going to twist the OP to show how it could be moral. Is it moral to cure people when overpopulation ensures that ALL people will suffer and die so we could save some, temporarily?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa6c3OTr6yA

Regards
DL


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Greatest I am

Greatest I am wrote:

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
Given that God can kill or cure, and given that we are to emulate, follow and try to be like him; it would seem that we too are to believe that sometimes it is better to kill than cure.

 

Oh silly athiest you don't listen to Christian radio enough.  See sure we should emulate "god" and his all-wise behavior, but we have to choose using our subjective opigion what behaviors are ment to be emulated, and which are those "mysterious" things he likes to do that are only good if you are all powerful god, if not they are very very bad things to do.  See like...  Helping people when you can like with medicine for their ailment, that's very godlike, and to be emulated, good stuff.  Causing or allowing millions upon millions of people to die horrible and unecessary deaths from starvation/disease and natural disasters, well that's not to be emulated, bad form, and only good if you are a supreme being.  So, being peaceful = good, to be emulated.  Mudering everyone you don't like man women and children in horribly painfull ways = not to be emulated and only good when god does it because the victims must have tiffed him off and deserved his devine justice.  That is because he's the president and its not illegal when the preseident does it, lol.  So again, loving your neighboor = to be emulated.  Slaughter opposing tribes = not to be emulated, only good if god does it or tells you to do it.  See...easy! 

 

I see.

So you are happy to follow a law maker who breaks his own law.

You are happy with a God that says do as I say and not as I do, while at the same time telling you to do as he does.

Come back when you can reconcile your contradiction.

Regards

DL 

Lol, I thought my post was well silly enough for you to get the sarcasm...


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NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:Lol,

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

Lol, I thought my post was well silly enough for you to get the sarcasm...

 

More proof that [/sarcasm] is never a waste of time. 

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken


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NoMoreCrazyPeople

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

[

Lol, I thought my post was well silly enough for you to get the sarcasm...

My bad.

I have heard too much crap coming from theists and being absent minded, I sometime forget whose what.

I focus on the word and not so much on the author.

Regards

DL

 


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Greatest I am

Greatest I am wrote:

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

[

Lol, I thought my post was well silly enough for you to get the sarcasm...

My bad.

I have heard too much crap coming from theists and being absent minded, I sometime forget whose what.

I focus on the word and not so much on the author.

Regards

DL

 

Yup, it's happened to me before, sometimes your so dumbfounded by the things theists say that you have a hard time sniffing out a poe or atheist sarcasm even when their saying super stupid shit cuz it's like "well that's almost too stupid, bbbbut then again I've heard stupider things from theists."

 

Some my favorites:

-"If theirs no creator of the universe, then why are all the planets and stars perfectly round?"

-"Everything that exists has a cause, therefor the universe had a cause, but that the cause who caused the universe doesn't need a cause."

And what has to be the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard a thiest say and the strangest understanding of evolution:

-"If we evolved over time, how did we take a pee before we had genitals, or get around before we could see?"

      Yes this is an actual question posed by a theisst to richard dawkins in an interview on youtube, meaning he was of the understanding that enolution ment humans have always been humans but like...morphing over time, and their was once a time when humans hadn't yet evolved much of the parts of their bodies yet and were like...lol...eyeless, genital less, legless and armless blobs or something slowing getting more advanced over time.  Dawkins was completey speechless in response to his stupidity.

 

 

 


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Goes to show what will

Goes to show what will happen to a mind that starts the day believing in fantasy, miracles and magic.

 

It can only go downhill from that great start.

 

Regards

DL


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Greatest I am wrote:Vastet

Greatest I am wrote:

Vastet wrote:
I'm going to twist the OP to show how it could be moral. Is it moral to cure people when overpopulation ensures that ALL people will suffer and die so we could save some, temporarily?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa6c3OTr6yA

Regards
DL

Except in this case the many are both sides. Noone goes through their entire life free of illness and injury. And noone is spared the effects of overpopulation.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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 GOD is all loving and all

 GOD is all loving and all knowing - so why don't you just ask HIM?  why worry about GOD if you don't believe in HIM?  Why keep asking questions about this or that if you just don't believe in HIM?  again why ask why if you don't believe in HIM?  JUST ASK HIM and stop asking humans about GOD!!!


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araujo03 wrote:   JUST ASK

araujo03 wrote:

   JUST ASK HIM and stop asking humans about GOD!!!

 

   I would like to ask him why so many Christians always post using CAPS and exclamation points !!!!!!!!!

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.


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araujo03 wrote: GOD is all

araujo03 wrote:

 GOD is all loving and all knowing - so why don't you just ask HIM?  why worry about GOD if you don't believe in HIM?  Why keep asking questions about this or that if you just don't believe in HIM?  again why ask why if you don't believe in HIM?  JUST ASK HIM and stop asking humans about GOD!!!

Because he is a liar. That is scripture.

If he is all loving, why do scriptures say that he hated Esau even in the womb?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDbesQQi9yc

Regards

DL