No Crosses At Work

digitalbeachbum
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No Crosses At Work

I disagree with this ruling. I don't care if some one wears a cross at work.

As long as that cross isn't humped over their shoulder and they are wearing thorns around their head...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9136191/Christians-have-no-right-to-wear-cross-at-work-says-Government.html

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ex-minister
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How bizarre. I feel like I

How bizarre. I feel like I was reading The Onion. How this meaningless piece of jewelry became so important is beyond me. There's a piece of information missing. It seems like this was a forced issue. "Waaaa! If Hamed gets to wear a turban, I get to wear a cross."

Would it be rude etiquette to ask a woman why she was wearing a near naked man between her breasts?

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


digitalbeachbum
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ex-minister wrote:How

ex-minister wrote:
How bizarre. I feel like I was reading The Onion. How this meaningless piece of jewelry became so important is beyond me. There's a piece of information missing. It seems like this was a forced issue. "Waaaa! If Hamed gets to wear a turban, I get to wear a cross." Would it be rude etiquette to ask a woman why she was wearing a near naked man between her breasts?

 

lol i was thinking the same question...

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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Beyond Saving
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digitalbeachbum wrote:I

digitalbeachbum wrote:

I disagree with this ruling. I don't care if some one wears a cross at work.

As long as that cross isn't humped over their shoulder and they are wearing thorns around their head...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9136191/Christians-have-no-right-to-wear-cross-at-work-says-Government.html

So where do you draw the line? Can someone wear an evolvefish t-shirt to work even if the dress code requires a suit? 

 

To me the central question is whether or not businesses are allowed to set a dress code for their employees. Obviously they can. Then should religious employees be granted an exception that isn't granted to anyone else- you can wear a cross necklace but not any other necklace, you can wear a hijab but not a ski mask? Why should they? An employer requiring that their employees wear a uniform doesn't take away the employees freedom of religion any more than it takes away the employees freedom to wear blue jeans. You can do whatever you want when you are not at work and not representing the company. I'm sick of theists demanding special rights and demanding that I adjust my life and business for them to practice their religion. Then pretending to be persecuted when they are told no. 

 

Consider for example a religious employee was telling every customer they were going to hell unless they accept Jesus as their savior. Could the company fire that employee for refusing to stop? Same fundamental freedom. The employee is only exercising their freedom to practice their religion.

 

An employer ought to be able to require employees to not wear any jewelry (including crosses) or require all employees to wear similar jewelry depending on the image the company wants to project to its customers and of course safety issues. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Good point, Beyond. It just

Good point, Beyond. It just struck me how the religious fight over such trivial things, making test cases out of bs. Decades ago when I was a dedicated SDA the big pain in the ass was that I couldn't work on the sabbath, friday sundown to saturday sundown. I never thought to bring this to court, but to either find a job where that worked or tell them up front this is what I need to be hired and if hired to be an exemplary employee so as not to be an embarassment to management. Joseph and Daniel in the bible were great examples of that. Today, the religious want society to bend instead.
It is quiet sick. Jesus said my kingdom is not if this world. Why don't his followers not get that? It seems they don't believe he is going to return and so they need to doing nation building for jeebus.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


digitalbeachbum
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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

I disagree with this ruling. I don't care if some one wears a cross at work.

As long as that cross isn't humped over their shoulder and they are wearing thorns around their head...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9136191/Christians-have-no-right-to-wear-cross-at-work-says-Government.html

So where do you draw the line? Can someone wear an evolvefish t-shirt to work even if the dress code requires a suit? 

 

To me the central question is whether or not businesses are allowed to set a dress code for their employees. Obviously they can. Then should religious employees be granted an exception that isn't granted to anyone else- you can wear a cross necklace but not any other necklace, you can wear a hijab but not a ski mask? Why should they? An employer requiring that their employees wear a uniform doesn't take away the employees freedom of religion any more than it takes away the employees freedom to wear blue jeans. You can do whatever you want when you are not at work and not representing the company. I'm sick of theists demanding special rights and demanding that I adjust my life and business for them to practice their religion. Then pretending to be persecuted when they are told no. 

 

Consider for example a religious employee was telling every customer they were going to hell unless they accept Jesus as their savior. Could the company fire that employee for refusing to stop? Same fundamental freedom. The employee is only exercising their freedom to practice their religion.

 

An employer ought to be able to require employees to not wear any jewelry (including crosses) or require all employees to wear similar jewelry depending on the image the company wants to project to its customers and of course safety issues. 

I agree that businesses should be allowed to set dress codes, but for this to be in the court is silly.

What do you do if a married person has a ring with a cross on it? What if that ring is the wedding ring?

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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I often hear stories from

I often hear stories from Canada and Europe from the well intended "cant we all just get along" left. Force is not how you create civility. Law must be based on the simple concept of "you either let it all in, or keep it all out, but no one group gets a monopoly of venue".

I would have to read the ruling to know why they did it. If Christians were saying "I can do this, but you cant" then the ban is appropriate because the government is trying to prevent a monopoly. But if it is merely a politically correct law to placate the emotions of others, then no.

Jefferson's wall was really a self correcting choice. Humans like their clubs and like being the alpha male. Those on top, in any given society don't like to share public venues. When you face that majority with the two options above, they chose to keep it neutral because they don't want to share.

But Europe goes too far for me sometimes. Like when France banned the underwear add  because of it's depiction of the last super with 18 year olds in underwear. Or like the well intended blasphemy law by Ireland to attempt to end the beef between Catholics and Protestants. That government would have to arrest Thomas Jefferson for equating the virgin birth to Minerva being born out of the brain of Jupiter.

I would advise Europe and Canada and even America, when you try to attempt to use law to keep dissenting blasphemy quiet, what most humans forget is that power shifts over time and the government you live under may not always like or agree with what you want to bitch about. I warn the well intended not to hand government the loaded gun of censorship just because an individual doesn't like being offended. Long term that hurts the rights of all on all sides.

There are TWO simple rules all of us can agree to no matter how much we get offended or how much we want to bitch about others.

1. Don't physically harm others.

2. Don't call for the physical harm of others.

But as far as public venues and religious displays. IT DEPENDS, using government to sell a religion, no. But simply having a religious turban or a cross around your neck, as long as you are not saying "I get to do this, but you cant", we cant be so anal about silencing others. We do not live in a utopia where we always get everything we want.

I constantly get blasted and falsely accused of being "militant" by both believers and some atheists here. A militant would silence Voltaire when he said "I may vehemently disagree with what you have to say, but will defend to the death your right to say it".

No matter what people think of me, I do get tired of people trying to use the word "bigot" or "militant" merely because I say "You are full of shit".

Militant is what China does to dissent. Militant is what Iran does to dissent. Saying you are not entitled to a pedestal is NOT militant.

Verbally throwing cold water on someone's face does not translate to fascism. Merely shouting "THE WORLD IS NOT FUCKING FLAT" is not hate of a person, it is hate of the utterance of an absurdity.

I promise everyone here, I don't want you arrested. I promise everyone here if I saw you bleeding in the street, I WOULD HELP YOU, regardless of how full of shit I may think a particular claim is. I don't have a kid, but if I did and a religious person wanted to marry them, I WOULD NOT DISOWN MY KID.

We live in a world of 7 billion and since there is no such thing as a utopia, law cannot be written as such and can only be based on common concepts, specifically the common concept of not having to fear your government or your neighbor.

Theists, from a human rights standpoint SHOULD have the right to attempt to sell their product, not because I value it, but because humans are not clones of each other. But equally as important is the ability to bitch and call "bullshit", If we don't allow our fellow humans to bitch we simply get into pissing contests via law that end up hurting everyone long term.

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


ProzacDeathWish
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  Yes, you should be able

  Yes, you should be able to wear your favorite symbol at work  ( cross, crescent moon, pentagram, American flag, hammer and sickle, swastika, star of David, peace symbol, yin -yang, anarchy "A", rainbow flag, 1 percenters, etc....)  just wear it under your clothing.  

 

      When your work day ends then you can revert back to unfettered freedom of expression.

www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/misanthropy

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." Rudyard Kipling


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ProzacDeathWish wrote: 

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

  Yes, you should be able to wear your favorite symbol at work  ( cross, crescent moon, pentagram, American flag, hammer and sickle, swastika, star of David, peace symbol, yin -yang, anarchy "A", rainbow flag, 1 percenters, etc....)  just wear it under your clothing.  

 

      When your work day ends then you can revert back to unfettered freedom of expression.

That is reasonable. All my bosses have allowed the employees to wear religious stuff within reason. And they don't stop you from talking about religious stuff, as long as it doesn't prevent you from doing your job. I object to religious displays moreso when we are dealing with public venues where a majority is saying "I can do this, but you cant".

I even had a Christian boss defend me when some asshole called in and tried to have me fired because his kid saw an atheist bumper sticker on my car. His response to that customer, "Thats his car".

 

Again, I only object when a venue, private or public becomes one sided to the point a minority ends up in a hostile environment. With public venues most of the time the majority backs off because they don't want to share the venue, so it ends up staying neutral.

Now, I can say, if my boss ever said "you cant talk to the employees about your atheism" but allowed them to talk about their religion, then I would have a problem. But, we never bring it up to the customers, and when we do talk about it it is never a one way street and it never interferes with work.  That is about the best you are going to get.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Quote:Yes, you should be

Quote:
Yes, you should be able to wear your favorite symbol at work  ( cross, crescent moon, pentagram, American flag, hammer and sickle, swastika, star of David, peace symbol, yin -yang, anarchy "A", rainbow flag, 1 percenters, etc....)  just wear it under your clothing.  

 

      When your work day ends then you can revert back to unfettered freedom of expression.

 

Some people should keep their "expressions" under wraps.  Maybe they want to ban crosses, and other symbols, to avoid an outbreak of their employees becoming like THIS guy:

 

 

 

 

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


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Brian37 wrote:I even had a

Brian37 wrote:

I even had a Christian boss defend me when some asshole called in and tried to have me fired because his kid saw an atheist bumper sticker on my car. His response to that customer, "Thats his car".

 

                           

 

                    Well Brian you luckily have a boss who doesn't let his personal views interfere with him treating his employees fairly.  That's the kind of Christian that I can actually respect. Good for him.

www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/misanthropy

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." Rudyard Kipling


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

I even had a Christian boss defend me when some asshole called in and tried to have me fired because his kid saw an atheist bumper sticker on my car. His response to that customer, "Thats his car".

 

                           

 

                    Well Brian you luckily have a boss who doesn't let his personal views interfere with him treating his employees fairly.  That's the kind of Christian that I can actually respect. Good for him.

He is a DICK in starving his employees so he can pad is profits.  You can value free speech and at the same time pick someone's pocket.

I've seen his ilk before. Just because you can have brains in one aspect of your life does not mean you cant neglect or ignore or outright say "fuck you" to the harm you cause to others.

I'd rather work for a Christian who knows what poverty is like, than to work for an atheist who masturbates over pictures of Ayn Rand

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:I'd rather

Brian37 wrote:

I'd rather work for a Christian who knows what poverty is like, than to work for an atheist who masturbates over pictures of Ayn Rand

The latter probably pays better, at least if you are expert at your job.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Brian37
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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

I just realized I need to make a distinction.

The bumper sticker defender IS NOT my boss now. The guy who defended my bumper sticker wouldn't have starved me to death. My boss now doesn't care if I bite chicken heads off, he is all about profits.

So while my current boss doesn't censor me he doesn't care if I starve to death either.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Brian37
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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

I'd rather work for a Christian who knows what poverty is like, than to work for an atheist who masturbates over pictures of Ayn Rand

The latter probably pays better, at least if you are expert at your job.

Thank you Mary Antoinette. Your advice is about as useful as nipples on men.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37