The Quran is the verbatim word of ...

truth
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The Quran is the verbatim word of ...

1. There are various institutions that offer classes to learn quranic arabic. I think most if not all the people that take the classes are muslims. After these muslims go from not knowing arabic to learning arabic and being able to read quran in its original language they still remain muslim. Why do you think this is so? If we believe or know quran is not word of god, why do these people after being able to read their holy book in classical arabic, why do they still remain muslims? Do they not see the barbaric nonsense in the book if any?

2. Either muslims are ignorant as hell, or were the ones ignorant as hell. Either this book is word of god or its not. How can some people mistake a barbaric book written by barbaric people in a barbaric age with the verbatim word of god? OR how can some people mistake the word of the creator of the heavens and the earth with a barbaric book? One group of people here is profoundly ignorant. Which group of people are ignorant and why? 

 


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Truth... Human psychology is

Truth... Human psychology is not that simple.

 

Confirmation bias is considerably more powerful than you seem to think. Many Christians have read the (arguably barbaric) Bible from end to end without turning away from it. And many Scientologists and Mormons are intimately knowlegdable about the origins of their respective religions without concluding that they are blatant hoaxes.

 

Every person's view of the world, including yours and mine, is complex and multifaceted. You can't simply conclude that either people who have read the Quran must be "ignorant as hell" or the rest of us are. You should study psychology and sociology if you are so interested in the "Truth". That's your best bet at understanding it.

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truth wrote:1. There are

truth wrote:

1. There are various institutions that offer classes to learn quranic arabic. I think most if not all the people that take the classes are muslims. After these muslims go from not knowing arabic to learning arabic and being able to read quran in its original language they still remain muslim. Why do you think this is so? If we believe or know quran is not word of god, why do these people after being able to read their holy book in classical arabic, why do they still remain muslims? Do they not see the barbaric nonsense in the book if any?

2. Either muslims are ignorant as hell, or were the ones ignorant as hell. Either this book is word of god or its not. How can some people mistake a barbaric book written by barbaric people in a barbaric age with the verbatim word of god? OR how can some people mistake the word of the creator of the heavens and the earth with a barbaric book? One group of people here is profoundly ignorant. Which group of people are ignorant and why? 

 

Ignorance is a taught behavior. All of us are ignorant as some point in our lives for various reasons.

It is an important lesson to see that ignorance for all aspects of humanity. To see that human traits like hate and greed are the reasons for our ignorance.

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Nikolaj wrote:Truth... Human

Nikolaj wrote:

Truth... Human psychology is not that simple.

 

Confirmation bias is considerably more powerful than you seem to think. Many Christians have read the (arguably barbaric) Bible from end to end without turning away from it. And many Scientologists and Mormons are intimately knowlegdable about the origins of their respective religions without concluding that they are blatant hoaxes.

 

Every person's view of the world, including yours and mine, is complex and multifaceted. You can't simply conclude that either people who have read the Quran must be "ignorant as hell" or the rest of us are. You should study psychology and sociology if you are so interested in the "Truth". That's your best bet at understanding it.

 

I took a semester in college in psychology and sociology. I guess that didnt go to well. I'll go back to the time when I was a Catholic, I believed in the Bible because i believed it was the word of God, i dont know why but i did. I also had an extreme fear of hell. That also haunts me sometimes. I couldent answer the questions, where did we come from, why are we here, etc. So instead of saying " i dont know" i concluded that a supreme being must exist and that being had to have a purpose of us. Long story short, i turned to Catholicism. I also heard "supernatural" testimonies so that only confirmed my faith.

Some reasons why people believe in the Bible are because: fear of hell, were born in religious household, have heard/seen unexplained phenomenon, creation nessesitates a creator, intelligent design all around us, etc. I know there are more reasons. I do understand where they are coming from. With the Quran, i would say people believe in it because of some more or less of the reasons mentioned, and sheiks talk about how there are science facts unknown at that time and linguistic miracles. The Quran also poses an interesting question to mankind, did you create yourself or did you come out of nothing? It is a fact that most Muslims dont know classical Arabic, sad but true. So therefore they cant know if Quran is word of God or not. I can keep going, but i think this is a good stopping point.


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truth wrote:

1. There are various institutions that offer classes to learn quranic arabic. I think most if not all the people that take the classes are muslims. After these muslims go from not knowing arabic to learning arabic and being able to read quran in its original language they still remain muslim. Why do you think this is so? If we believe or know quran is not word of god, why do these people after being able to read their holy book in classical arabic, why do they still remain muslims? Do they not see the barbaric nonsense in the book if any?

2. Either muslims are ignorant as hell, or were the ones ignorant as hell. Either this book is word of god or its not. How can some people mistake a barbaric book written by barbaric people in a barbaric age with the verbatim word of god? OR how can some people mistake the word of the creator of the heavens and the earth with a barbaric book? One group of people here is profoundly ignorant. Which group of people are ignorant and why? 

Reading the bible, old, new and deutero, in whatever language essentially never changes the opinion of believers. The simplest explanation is it is always read with the "What is really means for Dummies" as a companion volume. The absurd, the vile, the simplistic, the ridiculous all have hidden meanings which are for the benefit of the believer. Simply, reading the story of Adam and Eve and reading the story of how sin came into the world are two entirely different objectives even though the text is the same. No rational person can simply read the text and find sin of any kind in it. You have to know what you are looking for.

The bible is like a sewer. What you get out of it depends upon what you put into it.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

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www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Hey OPIE

Hey OPIE,

They do it for both cultural reasons and political reasons. They also do it to stay alive. In Islam, if you are a muslim and the quit, it is an honor to kill you. So it's like the Mafia, you can't just leave.

I said this on another thread, but I make it a point every year on Mohammad's birthday to burn a Koran and usually pee on it and then pray for God to destroy the people of the wasteland according to Genesis and to allow our military to completely eliminate the kaaba by bombing it to vapor dust. This would then end the pesticle religion and bring peace to the world.

Bomb the Kaaba, should be a bumper sticker.

All Muslims are going to rot in a very hot place in hell and burn and be in torment for eternity.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).


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Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hey OPIE,

They do it for both cultural reasons and political reasons. They also do it to stay alive. In Islam, if you are a muslim and the quit, it is an honor to kill you. So it's like the Mafia, you can't just leave.

I said this on another thread, but I make it a point every year on Mohammad's birthday to burn a Koran and usually pee on it and then pray for God to destroy the people of the wasteland according to Genesis and to allow our military to completely eliminate the kaaba by bombing it to vapor dust. This would then end the pesticle religion and bring peace to the world.

Bomb the Kaaba, should be a bumper sticker.

All Muslims are going to rot in a very hot place in hell and burn and be in torment for eternity.

I thought you said your god was no longer the spiteful, petty, jealous, vengeful savage of the Old Testament. Sounds like it hasn't changed at all.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Jean

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hey OPIE,

They do it for both cultural reasons and political reasons. They also do it to stay alive. In Islam, if you are a muslim and the quit, it is an honor to kill you. So it's like the Mafia, you can't just leave.

I said this on another thread, but I make it a point every year on Mohammad's birthday to burn a Koran and usually pee on it and then pray for God to destroy the people of the wasteland according to Genesis and to allow our military to completely eliminate the kaaba by bombing it to vapor dust. This would then end the pesticle religion and bring peace to the world.

Bomb the Kaaba, should be a bumper sticker.

All Muslims are going to rot in a very hot place in hell and burn and be in torment for eternity.

I thought you said your god was no longer the spiteful, petty, jealous, vengeful savage of the Old Testament. Sounds like it hasn't changed at all.

 

Said the hypocritical bigot who hates "Izzies". You two should get married. You may reject all god claims but what you do that he does is the same shit, bigoted "in group" "out groups" crap. 

If you would understand evolution and human behavior it would allow you to get over your own baggage and see humans as individuals.

"Atheist" is only a position, it does not change the fact that you have the same natural reactions and behaviors all humans have always had throughout our evolution.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Hello

Hello,

What kind of evolution are we talking about? And in your framework of evolution are you dominately via the presupposition of unitarianism or catastrophe and why since there's a schism regarding this very thing in the evolutionary movement, please explain.

You see, Islam is dangerous. It's religion is to kill and murder all those who are not Muslim. As a result for national defense via politics which is connected to theology, America as a country should protect our boarders, culture and language by eliminating this religion which creates completely terrorism.

If there is a pluralistic muslim, they would be inconsistent to the teachings of the koran and hadith.

I speak purely from a political view (not theological) in the protection of America. Bomb the kaaba and restore freedom to the world.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).


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Jean Chauvin

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hello,

What kind of evolution are we talking about? And in your framework of evolution are you dominately via the presupposition of unitarianism or catastrophe and why since there's a schism regarding this very thing in the evolutionary movement, please explain.

You see, Islam is dangerous. It's religion is to kill and murder all those who are not Muslim. As a result for national defense via politics which is connected to theology, America as a country should protect our boarders, culture and language by eliminating this religion which creates completely terrorism.

If there is a pluralistic muslim, they would be inconsistent to the teachings of the koran and hadith.

I speak purely from a political view (not theological) in the protection of America. Bomb the kaaba and restore freedom to the world.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

Islamic states are dangerous. But religion, including yours is dangerous. Dogmatic fascism that sets up a god as the state or the state as the god are all the same fucking thing. Christianity has merely had a leash on it for 200 pluss years. Islam has yet to have it's age of Enlightenment. But it is only because of secular law that Christians are civil. Christianity did not invent pluralism, it worships the same God of Abraham and that character has a my way or the highway attitude which you demonstrated by using your god to blame the Tsunami in Japan that killed 13,000 people.

Christianity has been watered down for the past two centuries. But even in that time Christians still used the bible to justify slavery, sexism, bigotry against blacks, genocide of Native Americans and even today bigotry towards gays and atheists and Muslims.

Secular law, not Christianity is why the west is civil.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Hi Brian

Hi Biran,

Chrisitanity is not dangerous. It's actually just the opposite. It denotes freedom which is why America is the way it is via the Reformation, it fights against evil and destroys it to keep america free.

The term peace in the new testament is the same word used on Ceasar's crown denoting war. Peace is obtained through protection against evil and war.

But Brian, Atheism constantly applied adores and adheres to facism. If you were to be consistent, you would want an old China of an atheistic government and the illegality of "religion" specifically Chrisitan. You're for the revolution.

All atheists are facists whether they admit it or not. You're a fascist Brian. I agree Christianity has been watered down absolutely Brian. The 1800's was a little stronger but that was the Spawn of the cults which is what weakened chrisitanity but dominately liberalism.

Actually, the issues of slavery of blacks was dominately a liberal issue. Chrisitans were against slavery and tried and successfully abolished it. It was the Calvinists that led the way to end slavery. Amazing Grace was writen by a guy who was a former slave ship operator, he became a chrisitan and fought to abolish it, the song and the man are both calivinistic.

Slavery in the Bible was really a means of employment. They were to be paid and properly cared for and employees. The word slave and servant are the same Greek Word in the New Testamant.

The West is not civil anymore, secular law has brought us the death of art, music, beauty, justice, knowledge, truth, etc. It use to be civil, but it is not any longer. It is slowly becoming of the ways of the barbarians and is why America will soon be destroyed by it's enemies.

God is God, He created everything and as a result, His creation should be in harmony to what He desires. this is what is knowin as NATURAL. Those things that are opposed to God, are what we call UNNATURAL. Thus Brian as an atheist you are unnatural and somewhat a psychological deviant of abnormal behavior.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

 

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).


Brian37
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Jean Chauvin wrote:Hi

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hi Biran,

Chrisitanity is not dangerous. It's actually just the opposite. It denotes freedom which is why America is the way it is via the Reformation, it fights against evil and destroys it to keep america free.

The term peace in the new testament is the same word used on Ceasar's crown denoting war. Peace is obtained through protection against evil and war.

But Brian, Atheism constantly applied adores and adheres to facism. If you were to be consistent, you would want an old China of an atheistic government and the illegality of "religion" specifically Chrisitan. You're for the revolution.

All atheists are facists whether they admit it or not. You're a fascist Brian. I agree Christianity has been watered down absolutely Brian. The 1800's was a little stronger but that was the Spawn of the cults which is what weakened chrisitanity but dominately liberalism.

Actually, the issues of slavery of blacks was dominately a liberal issue. Chrisitans were against slavery and tried and successfully abolished it. It was the Calvinists that led the way to end slavery. Amazing Grace was writen by a guy who was a former slave ship operator, he became a chrisitan and fought to abolish it, the song and the man are both calivinistic.

Slavery in the Bible was really a means of employment. They were to be paid and properly cared for and employees. The word slave and servant are the same Greek Word in the New Testamant.

The West is not civil anymore, secular law has brought us the death of art, music, beauty, justice, knowledge, truth, etc. It use to be civil, but it is not any longer. It is slowly becoming of the ways of the barbarians and is why America will soon be destroyed by it's enemies.

God is God, He created everything and as a result, His creation should be in harmony to what He desires. this is what is knowin as NATURAL. Those things that are opposed to God, are what we call UNNATURAL. Thus Brian as an atheist you are unnatural and somewhat a psychological deviant of abnormal behavior.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

 

Not with a secular leash on it, no it is not dangerous, or should I say, not as dangerous. But jackasses like you would love to remove that leash and go back to the sectarian tribalism that existed prior to Paine and Jefferson And the First Amendment.

People like you who view their god as a hostage taker whose god murders 13,000 Japanese in a Tsunami  do vote and do get elected and theocrats like you and Robertson and Falwell(Who blamed Katrina on gays and liberals) would if given the political power would turn back the clock.

But as long as the rest of the sane believers and atheists keep raising our voices you will NEVER be able to do that.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Quote:All Muslims are going

Quote:
All Muslims are going to rot in a very hot place in hell and burn and be in torment for eternity.

More of your claim that your god of Jesus is "all loving".

Sounds like a bloodthirsty monster, just like when Muslims threaten you and I with hell. Won't bow to their threats or yours.

Show me more of your "Christian love".

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Jean Chauvin
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Hey Brian

Brian,

God is all loving to His children, not the children of Satan such as yourself.

The majority of laws on the books are influenced by Christianity not secular selfishness. Your understanding of the world around you has been influenced by the excessive smoke that surrounds you as you smoke the blue bong.

Atheism consistently applied is dangerous since it murders people whom it wishes like Mao. Mao murderred over 60 million people because he was a consistent atheist.

Atheism wants to outlaw Christianity and punish and torment them who follow like they did in Russia when the KGB would murder innocent children for worshipping in churches.

Atheism brings soceity into bondage and eliminates the middle class making the poorer, dirt poor and starving while the wealthy elite rule the world and take away the freedoms of humanity.

consistent atheists would kill as many people as possible like Mao. They are on the leash of God's Sovereignty, if God were to let them go to do fully what their evil hearts wanted, they would kill the majority of the world.

I really worked you up Brian over this issue didn't I? Well good for me, I love it that it bothers you so, that means something's going on.

You make me smile Brian.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).


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Jean Chauvin wrote:I really

Jean Chauvin wrote:

I really worked you up Brian over this issue didn't I? Well good for me, I love it that it bothers you so, that means something's going on.

You make me smile Brian.

 

 

                              Watch out Brian, JohnCalvinNutHugger is getting ready to try and stick his hand down your pants.....

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Brian37 wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hey OPIE,

They do it for both cultural reasons and political reasons. They also do it to stay alive. In Islam, if you are a muslim and the quit, it is an honor to kill you. So it's like the Mafia, you can't just leave.

I said this on another thread, but I make it a point every year on Mohammad's birthday to burn a Koran and usually pee on it and then pray for God to destroy the people of the wasteland according to Genesis and to allow our military to completely eliminate the kaaba by bombing it to vapor dust. This would then end the pesticle religion and bring peace to the world.

Bomb the Kaaba, should be a bumper sticker.

All Muslims are going to rot in a very hot place in hell and burn and be in torment for eternity.

I thought you said your god was no longer the spiteful, petty, jealous, vengeful savage of the Old Testament. Sounds like it hasn't changed at all.

Said the hypocritical bigot who hates "Izzies". You two should get married. You may reject all god claims but what you do that he does is the same shit, bigoted "in group" "out groups" crap. 

If you would understand evolution and human behavior it would allow you to get over your own baggage and see humans as individuals.

"Atheist" is only a position, it does not change the fact that you have the same natural reactions and behaviors all humans have always had throughout our evolution.

A couple days ago I realized Godwin's Law is antisemitic. If it is invoked Jews cannot win an argument.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hello,

What kind of evolution are we talking about? And in your framework of evolution are you dominately via the presupposition of unitarianism or catastrophe and why since there's a schism regarding this very thing in the evolutionary movement,

No there isn't. If you believe there is recite the conflicting positions. BTW: Science does not have schismatics.


 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Jean Chauvin wrote:

Brian,

God is all loving to His children, not the children of Satan such as yourself.

The only sons of god are those who knew the daughters of men mentioned in Genesis. Don't you ever read your bible?


 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Jean Chauvin
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Mickey

Mickey,

I have no idea what you mean by science since that has 3 different categories of thought. But I agree, since science has no schismatics, then by definition evolution is NOT science.

But Mickey, why are you suck a wicked pagan who hires prostitues to get STD's to pass on to others? I mean, why not just turn to Jesus, you will remember me when you are in hell burning and screaming in torture.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).


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Jean Chauvin wrote:

Mickey,

I have no idea what you mean by science since that has 3 different categories of thought. But I agree, since science has no schismatics, then by definition evolution is NOT science.

Which means by definition you are an idiot.

Quote:
But Mickey, why are you suck a wicked pagan who hires prostitues to get STD's to pass on to others? I mean, why not just turn to Jesus, you will remember me when you are in hell burning and screaming in torture.

For a fact prostitutes used to pay me. I had several as regular customers. And they were the high priced call girl variety not the street workers. Never got a disease either.

As to Jesus, does he pay in cash like the prostitutes did?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml