a supernatural question

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a supernatural question

Some people experience supernatural/unexplained stuff , like seeing ghosts or shadowy figures, or seeing a kid pass but turns out there was no one there, hearing voices, etc, alot of these r hallucinations r other natural thing, but what about the few authentic testimonies where indeed a person did see something supernatural, how do u explain this? im not sayin this means God is real, im jus saying do u think there r other forces/beings in other worlds/dimensions or that an afterlie might be possible, or that these people r seeing there dead relatives attempt 2 talk 2 them or someting. ?


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Zaq wrote:truth

Zaq wrote:

truth wrote:

Thanks, its good be here.

but i feel like some force is trying to communicate with them or somthing ,there has 2 be a purpose as to why some people see certain things...

Do not confuse causal explanation with purpose.  If a rock falls from a cliff, there is probably a causal explanation.  This does not mean that there must be some intelligent agent who made the rock fall for some purpose.

 

There are certainly causal explanations for so-called "paranormal" experiences, mostly having to do with the power of suggestion, simple stage magic-type deception, or the unreliability of human perception (especially when we're emotionally charged).  This does not mean that there must be a "purpose" behind the experiences.

 

Also, to quote people, I always just click the "quote" button for the post I want.  You can also use a little code.  If you put (quote = name), except in square brackets instead of parentheses, you'll begin a section which is a quote attributed to "name."  You end that section with (/quote), again using square brackets instead of parentheses.  Remember to end your quote sectiosn or your post will look really funky.

 

Thanks


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Luminon wrote:   The

Luminon wrote:
   The point is, as soon as you look at Ben Creme, you'll see that the political/economic/social stuff is just as important and indivisible from the esoteric/spiritual. That can be a real eye opener.    

 I tend to disagree. Can you elaborate on why this is so.

 

Luminon wrote:
 Do we need "God" to explain anything? No, we haven't yet seen anything that would need "God". However, I believe that in 20-30 years etheric body could be accepted as a fact and then gradually more. Eventually, after 100 years from now scientists might recognize the structure I call the soul. 

But how can we have a soul without a God/Creator?

 

Luminon wrote:
 Human body is maybe imperfect, but that's what we (will) have genetic engineering for. It is our right to eventually eliminate all disease

Do you subscribe to the theory that Nanobiotechnology can one day make us live forever?

 

Luminon wrote:
Once you read up on the hierarchy of Masters and their activities, you'll see that apparitions and manifestations like that are VERY frequent and many of them are well-documented. They are mostly small things, skeptics tend to shrug them off, wouldn't an omnipotent God make something bigger? But if you consider that it's not God, but a small group of ascended esoteric scientists, that's a different thing. I can understand this is the method they use to stay in touch with religious population. All religious population, every greater religion has these "miracles".

Isn't a bit deceiving on their behalf to do this. With Marian apparitions, they are leading millions of people to continue on believing in heaven/hell/God. All these faithful followers think they are the Virgin Mary and Jesus. These apparitions only confirm to the faithful that Catholicism is the truth. Why do they do this?

 

 


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Some shit to checkout

Luminon, here are some websites you might find interesting:

iawwai.com and

montalk.net

If you havent already been here, blavatsky.net

nowheretorun.com ---> It's done from a Christian perspective but some alternative things he talks about are good 

And if your into conspiracies and conspiracy theorists ---> truthfrequencyradio.com and redicecreations.com

2 very good documentaries incase you guys havent watched them ---> youtube "What the bleep do we know"

and "Philosophy and The Matrix"  <----watch the one by QuantumLeap

 


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truth wrote:Luminon

truth wrote:

Luminon wrote:
   The point is, as soon as you look at Ben Creme, you'll see that the political/economic/social stuff is just as important and indivisible from the esoteric/spiritual. That can be a real eye opener.    

I tend to disagree. Can you elaborate on why this is so.

Because this group of Masters is responsible for civilization on Earth. And life is about getting things done, we need to eat, get organized and get along. We need to live in such a way, that our time and power will be freed to develop ourselves in a systematic way. And we can't do that when there is too much work, war, poverty and inequality. These things hold us back as a whole race. 

You should also read up on so-called rays, the basic forces that create the universe. On physical level some of them are manifested as our familiar forces of physics, on higher levels they drive people to behave in certain ways. Just like grains of sand organize into a regular pattern when exposed to a certain vibration, so people organize when exposed to these subtle forces. And some rays produce definitely political, business, religious or other patterns in individuals and whole nations. We can't get rid of these social phenomena, that's how we react to the "cosmic weather". But we can transform them from the present imperfect form to their higher counterpart. From politics to leadership, from business to global communication and travel, from religion to love. 

 

truth wrote:
 But how can we have a soul without a God/Creator?
I don't say we can't. I leave this question to those who will discover the soul scientifically. 
But tell me, why are you so concerned with God? If he exists, I suppose he has his duties and I have mine. When there is no hell or heaven, we're in no hurry to search for him. Any kind of God I can imagine is too distant from us to have anything to do with us. I think in terms of hierarchies, of subsidiary distribution of work and from where we stand God just isn't our problem.
 

truth wrote:
 Do you subscribe to the theory that Nanobiotechnology can one day make us live forever?
No, why the hell should it? Living forever isn't a good idea, people can waste any amount of time they're given. I believe if we use our lifetime wisely, we can accomplish more than immortals. 

However, nanobiotechnology and advanced genetic engineering is a worthy goal. If we can make the life active and comfortable up to the very end, prolong it for a couple of decades and eliminate disease, why not? We already did it to smallpox and bubonic plague and God didn't complain.

truth wrote:
 Isn't a bit deceiving on their behalf to do this. With Marian apparitions, they are leading millions of people to continue on believing in heaven/hell/God. All these faithful followers think they are the Virgin Mary and Jesus. These apparitions only confirm to the faithful that Catholicism is the truth. Why do they do this?
I can only speculate, but logically. For the past 2000 years something humanity was under the influence of the 6th ray, the ray of devotion and idealism. Astrologers call it the age of Pisces, when the spring equinox point of our ecliptics pointed into the Pisces constellation. This is the Platonic month and they tend to produce a specific type of civilization. I'd bet the Hierarchy knew better than to boycott the cosmic weather. What they wanted to achieve wasn't any religion, but a general racial realization, that certain things like charity, piety and altruism are today seen as good manners. That was the lesson for humanity. Before that, there were other lessons and today we're in a beginning of a new one.

Well and now, when Masters start to work in the world openly though still anonymously, the signs are used to raise people's expectations. To let them know that something is happening and that they should actively expect whatever they call their messiah. That's the message for religious folks, we modern and rational westerners expect "the guy to fix the economy" Smiling

I must also say, yes, technically, that's deceiving, even if the people doing it were in their times Jesus, Mary or whatever. And what's wrong about it? Giving these people the truth is like giving pearls to the swine. They can't handle reality. Truth can be diffcult, dangerous and for some people also useless. Truth is like freedom, soungs good in theory, but many people died because of it. Truth must be given in digestible form and manageable doses to those who can put it to some good use. 
I must say, in esotericism there is a "sin" called pulling the information. With information comes responsibility and if you have the information you need/want and yet you don't act according to it, the consequences get worse. I know how a work with a clairvoyant psychic looks like, it's like asking an oracle and it often involves asking for permission to ask something. It's a price for safety and usefulness of the information.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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truth wrote:Luminon, here

truth wrote:

Luminon, here are some websites you might find interesting:

iawwai.com and

montalk.net

These two websites seem to gather together various New Age ideas. The level seems to be moderate, it doesn't come across as bat-shit-crazy, but still, it's some truth mixed with fantasy and popculture. People who'd like to unify science and religion tend to know little about either.
Another good example is the page on the science of orgonomy, it mentions people I hold in high esteem - like James DeMeo and criticizes the culture of orgonite cure-all (which is also JDM's official orgonomic stance that this is bullshit) but still, there is a belief in the chemtrails conspiracy theory. As I say, it's truth mixed with fantasy in varying amounts. I prefer to skip such sources and save time, rather than sift through them. I have only a few sources that proved themselves completely over the time.

truth wrote:
 If you havent already been here, blavatsky.net
Not much to criticize here, except the website should treat Darwinism with more respect. He was an influential initiate and he didn't fool around. Anyway, intelligent design of the immense nature's variety is just a tedious idea. 

truth wrote:
 nowheretorun.com ---> It's done from a Christian perspective but some alternative things he talks about are good
The link doesn't seem to work, is it http://nowheretorun.podomatic.com/ or http://conspiracyclothes.com/nowheretorun/ ? Anyway, I don't like Christians much, when they use Biblical take on things instead of their own head, that makes them boringly predictable or uselessly unrealistic. Let's see if this one is an exception.

truth wrote:
 And if your into conspiracies and conspiracy theorists ---> truthfrequencyradio.com and redicecreations.com
I'm not much into conspiracies, because I live in not a very nice one, which involves my politicians cooperating with business mafia since the Velvet revolution on systematic asset stripping of my state. 

truth wrote:
2 very good documentaries incase you guys havent watched them ---> youtube "What the bleep do we know"
I think this is a nice New Agey movie, my family really liked it. It's only too bad that the skeptical community totally hates it due to quantum mysticism, unsanctified by mathemathic background - and also quote mining some of the scientists there. I personally regret the skeptical community didn't pay more attention to the experiments and studies listed in the two movies, WTFDWK 1 and 2. If there is any truth to them (and there should be, these are real scientific experiments, listed in the Bleep Study guide document) then that would be really cool.

truth wrote:
 and "Philosophy and The Matrix"  <----watch the one by QuantumLeap

I'll try to look at it, although I'm wary of philosophy not rooted in real phenomena.

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Luminon wrote:truth

Luminon wrote:

truth wrote:

Luminon wrote:
   The point is, as soon as you look at Ben Creme, you'll see that the political/economic/social stuff is just as important and indivisible from the esoteric/spiritual. That can be a real eye opener.    

I tend to disagree. Can you elaborate on why this is so.

Because this group of Masters is responsible for civilization on Earth. And life is about getting things done, we need to eat, get organized and get along. We need to live in such a way, that our time and power will be freed to develop ourselves in a systematic way. And we can't do that when there is too much work, war, poverty and inequality. These things hold us back as a whole race. 

You should also read up on so-called rays, the basic forces that create the universe. On physical level some of them are manifested as our familiar forces of physics, on higher levels they drive people to behave in certain ways. Just like grains of sand organize into a regular pattern when exposed to a certain vibration, so people organize when exposed to these subtle forces. And some rays produce definitely political, business, religious or other patterns in individuals and whole nations. We can't get rid of these social phenomena, that's how we react to the "cosmic weather". But we can transform them from the present imperfect form to their higher counterpart. From politics to leadership, from business to global communication and travel, from religion to love. 

 

truth wrote:
 But how can we have a soul without a God/Creator?
I don't say we can't. I leave this question to those who will discover the soul scientifically. 
But tell me, why are you so concerned with God? If he exists, I suppose he has his duties and I have mine. When there is no hell or heaven, we're in no hurry to search for him. Any kind of God I can imagine is too distant from us to have anything to do with us. I think in terms of hierarchies, of subsidiary distribution of work and from where we stand God just isn't our problem.
 

truth wrote:
 Do you subscribe to the theory that Nanobiotechnology can one day make us live forever?
No, why the hell should it? Living forever isn't a good idea, people can waste any amount of time they're given. I believe if we use our lifetime wisely, we can accomplish more than immortals. 

However, nanobiotechnology and advanced genetic engineering is a worthy goal. If we can make the life active and comfortable up to the very end, prolong it for a couple of decades and eliminate disease, why not? We already did it to smallpox and bubonic plague and God didn't complain.

truth wrote:
 Isn't a bit deceiving on their behalf to do this. With Marian apparitions, they are leading millions of people to continue on believing in heaven/hell/God. All these faithful followers think they are the Virgin Mary and Jesus. These apparitions only confirm to the faithful that Catholicism is the truth. Why do they do this?
I can only speculate, but logically. For the past 2000 years something humanity was under the influence of the 6th ray, the ray of devotion and idealism. Astrologers call it the age of Pisces, when the spring equinox point of our ecliptics pointed into the Pisces constellation. This is the Platonic month and they tend to produce a specific type of civilization. I'd bet the Hierarchy knew better than to boycott the cosmic weather. What they wanted to achieve wasn't any religion, but a general racial realization, that certain things like charity, piety and altruism are today seen as good manners. That was the lesson for humanity. Before that, there were other lessons and today we're in a beginning of a new one.

Well and now, when Masters start to work in the world openly though still anonymously, the signs are used to raise people's expectations. To let them know that something is happening and that they should actively expect whatever they call their messiah. That's the message for religious folks, we modern and rational westerners expect "the guy to fix the economy" Smiling

I must also say, yes, technically, that's deceiving, even if the people doing it were in their times Jesus, Mary or whatever. And what's wrong about it? Giving these people the truth is like giving pearls to the swine. They can't handle reality. Truth can be diffcult, dangerous and for some people also useless. Truth is like freedom, soungs good in theory, but many people died because of it. Truth must be given in digestible form and manageable doses to those who can put it to some good use. 
I must say, in esotericism there is a "sin" called pulling the information. With information comes responsibility and if you have the information you need/want and yet you don't act according to it, the consequences get worse. I know how a work with a clairvoyant psychic looks like, it's like asking an oracle and it often involves asking for permission to ask something. It's a price for safety and usefulness of the information.

 

Alot of alternative researchers believe evolution to be a hoax, they say certain beings/aliens/Annunaki created us, is this possible?

 

Why do you trust your sources, how can you be sure its not disinfo, isn't it better to say we dont really know the purpose of life or what happens after death? isn't alot of what you believe to be true pseudosciece, except the etheric stuff and chakras.

What are your views on levitation. My uncle whilst in a Catholic exorcism said he witnessed the possesed person "levitating" how can we explain this?

 

Is human cloning possible?


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truth wrote:Alot of

truth wrote:

Alot of alternative researchers believe evolution to be a hoax, they say certain beings/aliens/Annunaki created us, is this possible?

The claim of Annunaki creating us describes Enki and Ninti mixing their DNA with DNA of a local primitive hominid, creating a "lulu", a crossbreed used to mine gold down there in hot Africa or serve up there in lush gardens of Edinu, in Mesopotamia. So much for the claims.
But if we look at the human genome, we can't say there is any evidence for this. More than 50% of human DNA are fragments of ancient retroviruses and repetitive sequences, non-coding. All life on Earth is very closely related to each other, it almost seems as there is one life, one lineage, one DNA, one set of 26 amino-acids. We are not that much different from chimps or bonobos to point at any alien intervention. If there was one, it certainly wasn't mixing their DNA  with ours in 50/50 ratio as the legends seem to imply. 

truth wrote:
 Why do you trust your sources, how can you be sure its not disinfo, isn't it better to say we dont really know the purpose of life or what happens after death? isn't alot of what you believe to be true pseudosciece, except the etheric stuff and chakras.
Over the years our people including myself observed and tested many things in practice. Most of them turned out to be less than useful or even false. What remained is a minority. In that I can't help you, experience can't be just given. You can only compare it to your experience if you'll have any, or you can get to know me as someone who doesn't take his experience lightly and who makes precise observations. 
What I believe isn't exactly pseudoscience, it doesn't try to pose as something revealed through scientific method. It's more like a revelation or records of repeated subjective observation, as far as we are concerned. I observed enough to be personally convinced, but that applies to me, not to you. I only presume that in my place you'd draw the same conclusions.

truth wrote:
 What are your views on levitation. My uncle whilst in a Catholic exorcism said he witnessed the possesed person "levitating" how can we explain this?
 I don't know how to even approach this question. It probably is possible, but what might appear as levitation, might be achieved by multiple methods. Side-stepping of the gravitational law? Cancellation of mass? Applying an upward force? And how? Anyway, levitation during exorcism is something I haven't yet heard of. I had only read that spontaneous levitation during a deep prayer or meditation is one of the siddhis. 

When it comes to some occult phenomena, I do have a couple of ideas, for example, the interaction between astral and etheric body. But that's just a few pieces of information that fit together, I'm far from assembling a full image of how these things work. There are whole fields of science out there, untouched by the plough of research.

truth wrote:
 Is human cloning possible? 
Most probably it is possible, I'm pretty sure it was unsuccessfully attempted by various governments out of sheer curiosity and having funds. But if human body is just a vehicle for the soul, then even successful cloning the body isn't creating a new person. Most probably we'd get a vegetable, something equivalent to a braindead body. Which would be wonderful! Such a useful source of organs for transplantation. But unfortunately, growing organs or whole bodies isn't a simple thing at all. 

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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Luminon

Luminon wrote:

truth wrote:

Alot of alternative researchers believe evolution to be a hoax, they say certain beings/aliens/Annunaki created us, is this possible?

The claim of Annunaki creating us describes Enki and Ninti mixing their DNA with DNA of a local primitive hominid, creating a "lulu", a crossbreed used to mine gold down there in hot Africa or serve up there in lush gardens of Edinu, in Mesopotamia. So much for the claims.
But if we look at the human genome, we can't say there is any evidence for this. More than 50% of human DNA are fragments of ancient retroviruses and repetitive sequences, non-coding. All life on Earth is very closely related to each other, it almost seems as there is one life, one lineage, one DNA, one set of 26 amino-acids. We are not that much different from chimps or bonobos to point at any alien intervention. If there was one, it certainly wasn't mixing their DNA  with ours in 50/50 ratio as the legends seem to imply. 

truth wrote:
 Why do you trust your sources, how can you be sure its not disinfo, isn't it better to say we dont really know the purpose of life or what happens after death? isn't alot of what you believe to be true pseudosciece, except the etheric stuff and chakras.
Over the years our people including myself observed and tested many things in practice. Most of them turned out to be less than useful or even false. What remained is a minority. In that I can't help you, experience can't be just given. You can only compare it to your experience if you'll have any, or you can get to know me as someone who doesn't take his experience lightly and who makes precise observations. 
What I believe isn't exactly pseudoscience, it doesn't try to pose as something revealed through scientific method. It's more like a revelation or records of repeated subjective observation, as far as we are concerned. I observed enough to be personally convinced, but that applies to me, not to you. I only presume that in my place you'd draw the same conclusions.

truth wrote:
 What are your views on levitation. My uncle whilst in a Catholic exorcism said he witnessed the possesed person "levitating" how can we explain this?
 I don't know how to even approach this question. It probably is possible, but what might appear as levitation, might be achieved by multiple methods. Side-stepping of the gravitational law? Cancellation of mass? Applying an upward force? And how? Anyway, levitation during exorcism is something I haven't yet heard of. I had only read that spontaneous levitation during a deep prayer or meditation is one of the siddhis. 

When it comes to some occult phenomena, I do have a couple of ideas, for example, the interaction between astral and etheric body. But that's just a few pieces of information that fit together, I'm far from assembling a full image of how these things work. There are whole fields of science out there, untouched by the plough of research.

truth wrote:
 Is human cloning possible? 
Most probably it is possible, I'm pretty sure it was unsuccessfully attempted by various governments out of sheer curiosity and having funds. But if human body is just a vehicle for the soul, then even successful cloning the body isn't creating a new person. Most probably we'd get a vegetable, something equivalent to a braindead body. Which would be wonderful! Such a useful source of organs for transplantation. But unfortunately, growing organs or whole bodies isn't a simple thing at all. 

Hey Lum, I have a couple comments in this thread, but in another one I recommended to Truth "The Skeptical Inquirer" magazine. It's put out by CSI . You can find it online. If you haven't heard of it, I think you may like it. Although i don't buy most of the stuff you and him talk about, i like some of your posts regardless. At least you don't seem to be preaching paranormal and pseudoscience. No harm in discussing it.   Peace


 

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


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tonyjeffers wrote:Hey Lum, I

tonyjeffers wrote:

Hey Lum, I have a couple comments in this thread, but in another one I recommended to Truth "The Skeptical Inquirer" magazine. It's put out by CSI . You can find it online. If you haven't heard of it, I think you may like it. Although i don't buy most of the stuff you and him talk about, i like some of your posts regardless. At least you don't seem to be preaching paranormal and pseudoscience. No harm in discussing it.   Peace


 

 

This reminds me... theres an interesting website you might enjoy Tony. It's a good website to checkout for anyone whos into science and skepticism. It has alot of debunking, ranging from haunted houses to the virgin mary's tilma.

skeptoid.com

"Skeptoid is a weekly science podcast dedicated to furthering knowledge by blasting away the widespread pseudosciences that infect popular culture, and replacing them with way cooler reality.

Each weekly episode focuses on a single phenomenon — an urban legend, a paranormal claim, alternative therapy, or something just plain stupid — that you've heard of, and that you probably believe in. Skeptoid attempts to expose the folly of belief in non-evidence based phenomena, and more importantly, explains the factual scientific reality."

 


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truth wrote:tonyjeffers

truth wrote:

tonyjeffers wrote:

Hey Lum, I have a couple comments in this thread, but in another one I recommended to Truth "The Skeptical Inquirer" magazine. It's put out by CSI . You can find it online. If you haven't heard of it, I think you may like it. Although i don't buy most of the stuff you and him talk about, i like some of your posts regardless. At least you don't seem to be preaching paranormal and pseudoscience. No harm in discussing it.   Peace

 

This reminds me... theres an interesting website you might enjoy Tony. It's a good website to checkout for anyone whos into science and skepticism. It has alot of debunking, ranging from haunted houses to the virgin mary's tilma.

skeptoid.com

"Skeptoid is a weekly science podcast dedicated to furthering knowledge by blasting away the widespread pseudosciences that infect popular culture, and replacing them with way cooler reality.

Each weekly episode focuses on a single phenomenon — an urban legend, a paranormal claim, alternative therapy, or something just plain stupid — that you've heard of, and that you probably believe in. Skeptoid attempts to expose the folly of belief in non-evidence based phenomena, and more importantly, explains the factual scientific reality."

Yeah, I listened to lots of Skeptoid podcasts. When I played Helherron for the third or fourth time (it's really such a good game) I played Skeptoid on the background, or when I paired socks, or did other work. Skeptoid is the best in that it has a firmly set structure, you know, every week they make a science news guessing game and so on. Now I listen to Radiolab, which has an unbelievably good quality, it's a professional stuff that only needs visuals to be worthy of TV. But I actually started with The RRS podcast that I have bought. My current favorite is The Thinking Atheist show, made by Seth Andrews, a former Christian radio guy. I really like how he does the show all personal, friendly and funny, it's quite different from other shows all hung upon science and skepticism. 

There is so much good skeptical shows out there, atheists really make the best podcasts ever. For comparison, I sometimes tried some Matt Slick when I was feeling masochistic. Also some podcasts on esotericism or alternative culture, but these guys never went into any concrete details, just skimming the surface of topics like they never did their homework and the voice acting was very, very poor.

All right, I'll try the Skeptical Inquirer.

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TO: EVERYONE

Why does sex feel good, what is the explanation for this? How did this come about?

These next 2 questions are philosophical religious questions..

I'm having a hard time responding mainly to the second question when asked by Christians..

1. There is evil/suffering in the world because in order for us to know what is good and make a choice there has to be duality. There has to be cold and hot, evil and good, etc. Basically, the reason why there's suffering in the world is so we can know what it is. In order for us to know what is good, we must know what is evil. That's why god allows evil to occur on earth. ?

2. The reason why god doesn't just appear to everyone is because it would negate our free will. If he just appeared we would all do good and avoid sins, and that would rob us of our free will. That's why god chooses to remain hidden, because he wants us to have free will. God is testing us, he wants us to have faith rather than to know know he exists... If he appeared we would all be scared to even do the slightest bad thing because we would now know he is always watching us non stop. In order for us to exercise our free will in a comfortable way we have to be allowed to roam freely and that's why god doesn't appear...?

 


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truth wrote:Why does sex

truth wrote:

Why does sex feel good, what is the explanation for this? How did this come about?

Erotogenous zones are wired directly into pleasure centers in brain. This evolved because it is an evolutionarily beneficial trait. It might begin as a few random mutations. But people who feel more pleasure from sex are more determined to seek out sex, which creates more offspring and the erotogenous genes are passed forward and spread in the genetic pool. 
Hey, you're getting quite curious, next time you'll probably ask why the human male sexual organ is so large, when gorillas and orangutans have it about 3 cm long... Smiling

truth wrote:
 These next 2 questions are philosophical religious questions..

I'm having a hard time responding mainly to the second question when asked by Christians..

1. There is evil/suffering in the world because in order for us to know what is good and make a choice there has to be duality. There has to be cold and hot, evil and good, etc. Basically, the reason why there's suffering in the world is so we can know what it is. In order for us to know what is good, we must know what is evil. That's why god allows evil to occur on earth. ?

This question assumes that god is perfect. If he isn't, evil is a natural by-product, maybe even temporary if god evolves in time. If god is perfect, then creating evil just to prove a point or give us a choice, that does not make any sense. What possible benefit can a perfect god have from ignorant choice of ignorant mortals? If he likely knows the result in advance? And if majority of them is doomed? 

 

truth wrote:
 2. The reason why god doesn't just appear to everyone is because it would negate our free will. If he just appeared we would all do good and avoid sins, and that would rob us of our free will. That's why god chooses to remain hidden, because he wants us to have free will. God is testing us, he wants us to have faith rather than to know know he exists... If he appeared we would all be scared to even do the slightest bad thing because we would now know he is always watching us non stop. In order for us to exercise our free will in a comfortable way we have to be allowed to roam freely and that's why god doesn't appear...?  
I see you've got a point here. For example, Masters greatly insist on their inconspicuousness, anonymity or even invisibility. They say, that their mere appearance under a certain authoritative name would violate human free will. People would automatically divide on those loyal to the name, Christ for example, those who see Antichrist behind every corner and those, who do not buy into Christianity at alll. But people's free will is needed to make the choice of the future, to choose the ideas that will allow us to survive, the justice and sharing. These ideas must be globally recognized on their own merit alone, not because some legendary name is backing them up. That would cause much more trouble than it's worth. I think this idea is actually very sensible. It's not about what choice we make (there is really only one choice), but social changes that this choice would bring.

However again, simplistic Christian theology won't help us. A perfect, omniscient god doesn't have to test us, he already knows! Faith is overrated, it is unclear why would god want to have our faith, unless he feeds on faith or unless the Churches need blind faith to control people, which is more probable. It's so hypocrital of the theologians to talk about free will, with their effort to brainwash masses of people since childhood and control every aspect of their lives. If god would want us to really have free will, he would erradicate religion. And maybe other things that condition us, that change our free will. Maybe until there is nothing left of all the society. We don't have free will, not because of some annoying quantum determinist philosophy, but because most of us can't resist all the influences that the world has on us.

As for faith, I recently had a discussion on it. I found out, that religious people's goal is their faith. They have faith to have faith, they uphold each other faith to have it upheld when theirs falters. Faith is their precious.
I have faith too, a great deal of faith - in what I am, what I do, what needs to be done and in the fundamentally logical and consistent nature of the world. Even scientists need to have faith - faith in their project, enough faith to invest their time, effort and money and to bet their personal reputation on the project. You see, I understand faith as an instrument, as the engine of change and source of effort. Never as a goal. To have the faith as the goal, that's just incredibly silly and never leads anywhere. They don't care about anything from the outside, like what is actually their object of belief. Many believers are like dogs chasing their tail. 

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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truth wrote:Why does sex

truth wrote:

Why does sex feel good, what is the explanation for this? How did this come about?

These next 2 questions are philosophical religious questions..

I'm having a hard time responding mainly to the second question when asked by Christians..

1. There is evil/suffering in the world because in order for us to know what is good and make a choice there has to be duality. There has to be cold and hot, evil and good, etc. Basically, the reason why there's suffering in the world is so we can know what it is. In order for us to know what is good, we must know what is evil. That's why god allows evil to occur on earth. ?

2. The reason why god doesn't just appear to everyone is because it would negate our free will. If he just appeared we would all do good and avoid sins, and that would rob us of our free will. That's why god chooses to remain hidden, because he wants us to have free will. God is testing us, he wants us to have faith rather than to know know he exists... If he appeared we would all be scared to even do the slightest bad thing because we would now know he is always watching us non stop. In order for us to exercise our free will in a comfortable way we have to be allowed to roam freely and that's why god doesn't appear...?

 

1 and 2 are really all 1 question. First of all don't confuse good and bad with good and evil. The word "evil" to most people is related to the Devil, who of course doesn't exist. Good and bad are relative to each other and everything. Once you grasp the idea of relativity, you will find the answers to many things much easier. What's good for you is not necessarily good for everyone or everything.

The whole game of free will, god allowing evil and remaining hidden, and knowing ahead of time what choices we would make is so weak and contradictory that you shouldn't even consider it a theory. It is a stupid lie derived from the back-pedalling of the authors, who were grasping at straws to try and make the earlier parts of their stories make sense to their hapless victims that they were trying to pass it off on. That's why they went back to Adam and Eve to try and make it look like the concept was there in the beginning. Don't think for a second that they didn't go back and re-write this shit many times over.

When asked these questions by christians, there is simply no way to sugar coat it. You have a choice to answer honestly or to walk away and let them carry on with their fairy tale world. That is up to you. When someone is spreading any other bullshit stories and lies to you or to others in your presence, do you call them out on it or do you let the bullshit fly. Some bullshit stories can be harmless and not worthy of stopping, but christianity is not one of them. It instills fear, guilt, and delusions into people and it needs to be stopped every little step of the way. It's up to you. No one is going to address the whole world at once and stop it. Every little religious lie is a poisonous weed that must be yanked before it spreads.

 

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


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Luminon wrote:truth

Luminon wrote:

truth wrote:

Luminon wrote:
   The point is, as soon as you look at Ben Creme, you'll see that the political/economic/social stuff is just as important and indivisible from the esoteric/spiritual. That can be a real eye opener.    

I tend to disagree. Can you elaborate on why this is so.

Because this group of Masters is responsible for civilization on Earth. And life is about getting things done, we need to eat, get organized and get along. We need to live in such a way, that our time and power will be freed to develop ourselves in a systematic way. And we can't do that when there is too much work, war, poverty and inequality. These things hold us back as a whole race. 

You should also read up on so-called rays, the basic forces that create the universe. On physical level some of them are manifested as our familiar forces of physics, on higher levels they drive people to behave in certain ways. Just like grains of sand organize into a regular pattern when exposed to a certain vibration, so people organize when exposed to these subtle forces. And some rays produce definitely political, business, religious or other patterns in individuals and whole nations. We can't get rid of these social phenomena, that's how we react to the "cosmic weather". But we can transform them from the present imperfect form to their higher counterpart. From politics to leadership, from business to global communication and travel, from religion to love. 

...

As meaningless gibberish goes that is still in the wannbe class but you can found a cult if you keep it up.

What is your physical evidenc for any of it? Describe the experiments which demontrated their existence.

 

 

 

 


 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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supernatural vs. preternatural

Depending on your definition of "natural" the "supernatural" definition may not apply at all. 

Consider the String theory which says that our Universe is but one in a multitude "floating away" in this 11th dimension. Now, these other universes have their own natural laws completely alien to our Universal physical laws. 

If you consider these other Universes beyond our own as "natural" then the word "supernatural" makes absolutely no sense at all. Since everything that exists or may exist outside our natural plane of existence is also natural.

This is why, since yesterday, I stopped using the the word supernatural when I want to explain a phenomenon that I consider real but it is outside current human knowledge or acceptance. I use Preternatural phenomenon instead.

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


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Teralek wrote:Depending on

Teralek wrote:

Depending on your definition of "natural" the "supernatural" definition may not apply at all. 

Consider the String theory which says that our Universe is but one in a multitude "floating away" in this 11th dimension. Now, these other universes have their own natural laws completely alien to our Universal physical laws. 

If you consider these other Universes beyond our own as "natural" then the word "supernatural" makes absolutely no sense at all. Since everything that exists or may exist outside our natural plane of existence is also natural.

This is why, since yesterday, I stopped using the the word supernatural when I want to explain a phenomenon that I consider real but it is outside current human knowledge or acceptance. I use Preternatural phenomenon instead.

What kind of Theist are you?

Would unexplainable also work?


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truth wrote:Teralek

truth wrote:

Teralek wrote:

Depending on your definition of "natural" the "supernatural" definition may not apply at all. 

Consider the String theory which says that our Universe is but one in a multitude "floating away" in this 11th dimension. Now, these other universes have their own natural laws completely alien to our Universal physical laws. 

If you consider these other Universes beyond our own as "natural" then the word "supernatural" makes absolutely no sense at all. Since everything that exists or may exist outside our natural plane of existence is also natural.

This is why, since yesterday, I stopped using the the word supernatural when I want to explain a phenomenon that I consider real but it is outside current human knowledge or acceptance. I use Preternatural phenomenon instead.

What kind of Theist are you?

Would unexplainable also work?

I'm not sure about the answer to your first question. It depends on how you define "Theism" and "Deity". 

About my beliefs of the origin of this Universe - I beleive it was created intentionally by an unknown First Cause - some hypothesis of this are here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_Universe#Alien_design . I have No reason to worship this First Cause though...

On the question of human life I have personal reasons to believe, and others not so personal, that the property of conscience is not an exclusive product of the brain and survives the physical death. The non personal reasons come mostly from Near Death accounts and research. This belief does not entail a belief in a Deity... so there is no theism involved... 

The most important truth that I take from NDE is that the purpose of life is Love. Love in complete personal attachment to other humans, much like in the philosophy of Gandhi or Leo Tolstoy, above any other priorities. This purpose comes from the fact that we are all linked like particles in quantum entanglement.

When I first started posting here long ago I think I had slightly different ideas than I have today. Debating here helped me shape my ideas over time.

Although I think it's because of these beliefs I mentioned above, that I have the theist badge in this forum... dispite controversy of what a theist is and if I fit the category.

I prefer preternatural than unexplainable. God in many accounts is unexplainable. Unexplainable doesn't entail the possibility of being explainable someday. Preternatural does.

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


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Teralek wrote:truth

Teralek wrote:

truth wrote:

Teralek wrote:

Depending on your definition of "natural" the "supernatural" definition may not apply at all. 

Consider the String theory which says that our Universe is but one in a multitude "floating away" in this 11th dimension. Now, these other universes have their own natural laws completely alien to our Universal physical laws. 

If you consider these other Universes beyond our own as "natural" then the word "supernatural" makes absolutely no sense at all. Since everything that exists or may exist outside our natural plane of existence is also natural.

This is why, since yesterday, I stopped using the the word supernatural when I want to explain a phenomenon that I consider real but it is outside current human knowledge or acceptance. I use Preternatural phenomenon instead.

What kind of Theist are you?

Would unexplainable also work?

I'm not sure about the answer to your first question. It depends on how you define "Theism" and "Deity". 

About my beliefs of the origin of this Universe - I beleive it was created intentionally by an unknown First Cause - some hypothesis of this are here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_Universe#Alien_design . I have No reason to worship this First Cause though...

On the question of human life I have personal reasons to believe, and others not so personal, that the property of conscience is not an exclusive product of the brain and survives the physical death. The non personal reasons come mostly from Near Death accounts and research. This belief does not entail a belief in a Deity... so there is no theism involved... 

The most important truth that I take from NDE is that the purpose of life is Love. Love in complete personal attachment to other humans, much like in the philosophy of Gandhi or Leo Tolstoy, above any other priorities. This purpose comes from the fact that we are all linked like particles in quantum entanglement.

When I first started posting here long ago I think I had slightly different ideas than I have today. Debating here helped me shape my ideas over time.

Although I think it's because of these beliefs I mentioned above, that I have the theist badge in this forum... dispite controversy of what a theist is and if I fit the category.

I prefer preternatural than unexplainable. God in many accounts is unexplainable. Unexplainable doesn't entail the possibility of being explainable someday. Preternatural does.

I agree that indeed the recurring theme in NDE's is that the purpose of our lives is to LOVE.

What are your thoughts on people who see their dead relative..... or seeing a little girl then looking everywhere and turns out no one is there...... or seeing angels......or ghosts......etc.......what on gods green earth is going on here?

What do you think happens after we die?


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Luminon wrote:truth

Luminon wrote:

truth wrote:

Why does sex feel good, what is the explanation for this? How did this come about?

Erotogenous zones are wired directly into pleasure centers in brain. This evolved because it is an evolutionarily beneficial trait. It might begin as a few random mutations. But people who feel more pleasure from sex are more determined to seek out sex, which creates more offspring and the erotogenous genes are passed forward and spread in the genetic pool. 
Hey, you're getting quite curious, next time you'll probably ask why the human male sexual organ is so large, when gorillas and orangutans have it about 3 cm long... Smiling

truth wrote:
 These next 2 questions are philosophical religious questions..

I'm having a hard time responding mainly to the second question when asked by Christians..

1. There is evil/suffering in the world because in order for us to know what is good and make a choice there has to be duality. There has to be cold and hot, evil and good, etc. Basically, the reason why there's suffering in the world is so we can know what it is. In order for us to know what is good, we must know what is evil. That's why god allows evil to occur on earth. ?

This question assumes that god is perfect. If he isn't, evil is a natural by-product, maybe even temporary if god evolves in time. If god is perfect, then creating evil just to prove a point or give us a choice, that does not make any sense. What possible benefit can a perfect god have from ignorant choice of ignorant mortals? If he likely knows the result in advance? And if majority of them is doomed? 

 

truth wrote:
 2. The reason why god doesn't just appear to everyone is because it would negate our free will. If he just appeared we would all do good and avoid sins, and that would rob us of our free will. That's why god chooses to remain hidden, because he wants us to have free will. God is testing us, he wants us to have faith rather than to know know he exists... If he appeared we would all be scared to even do the slightest bad thing because we would now know he is always watching us non stop. In order for us to exercise our free will in a comfortable way we have to be allowed to roam freely and that's why god doesn't appear...?  
I see you've got a point here. For example, Masters greatly insist on their inconspicuousness, anonymity or even invisibility. They say, that their mere appearance under a certain authoritative name would violate human free will. People would automatically divide on those loyal to the name, Christ for example, those who see Antichrist behind every corner and those, who do not buy into Christianity at alll. But people's free will is needed to make the choice of the future, to choose the ideas that will allow us to survive, the justice and sharing. These ideas must be globally recognized on their own merit alone, not because some legendary name is backing them up. That would cause much more trouble than it's worth. I think this idea is actually very sensible. It's not about what choice we make (there is really only one choice), but social changes that this choice would bring.

However again, simplistic Christian theology won't help us. A perfect, omniscient god doesn't have to test us, he already knows! Faith is overrated, it is unclear why would god want to have our faith, unless he feeds on faith or unless the Churches need blind faith to control people, which is more probable. It's so hypocrital of the theologians to talk about free will, with their effort to brainwash masses of people since childhood and control every aspect of their lives. If god would want us to really have free will, he would erradicate religion. And maybe other things that condition us, that change our free will. Maybe until there is nothing left of all the society. We don't have free will, not because of some annoying quantum determinist philosophy, but because most of us can't resist all the influences that the world has on us.

As for faith, I recently had a discussion on it. I found out, that religious people's goal is their faith. They have faith to have faith, they uphold each other faith to have it upheld when theirs falters. Faith is their precious.
I have faith too, a great deal of faith - in what I am, what I do, what needs to be done and in the fundamentally logical and consistent nature of the world. Even scientists need to have faith - faith in their project, enough faith to invest their time, effort and money and to bet their personal reputation on the project. You see, I understand faith as an instrument, as the engine of change and source of effort. Never as a goal. To have the faith as the goal, that's just incredibly silly and never leads anywhere. They don't care about anything from the outside, like what is actually their object of belief. Many believers are like dogs chasing their tail. 

Reminds me..........dam i need to know the answer now that you brought it up, why IS the humans "lil guy" bigger than the animals you mentioned?

Why do women "bleed" every month, how did this come about and why? How did they deal with it in the past, 100's, 1000's, of years ago?

What are your thoughts on Zen Buddhism?

How did people in the ancient past know about Chakras? How/where did they get this information?

Are NDE's a valid way to know what happens after we die?

Why are, correct me if I'm wrong, men more "logical" and women more "emotional" driven?

How did being allergic to certain things come out?

Is the Ouija board a way to communicate with the spirit world, or is it all "hokum" ?

 

 

 

 

 


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I have addressed to some

I have addressed to some extent the questions you posed already in this forum.

As I've said I believe that there is another kind of "dimension" that somehow created this one. The realm of the First Cause. Another reason why I believe this beyond the ones I present here is the direct consequence of my beliefs on conscience.

This realm is not completely separated from the one we live, that is why for reasons arguably unknown, some preternatural phenomenons are able to comunicate with our own through unknown methods.

Even the dark mater and energy could be a "shadow" of this other realm.

People that have died sometimes can communicate and influence the affairs of this world. I could speculate what makes "people" on the other side try to influence or comunicate with us, according to my experience and to what I know if you want.

What I think happens when we die is kind of a rebirth... Now imagine the movie Matrix. Neo lives in this dream fuzzy world, but since this world is the only world he knows he has no other frame of reference. So he thinks that he is living in the highest possible state of "Conscious awareness" that the fuzzy world is as Real as Real can be.

Only when he takes the pill and sees his "true form" and "true world" completely alien to him and impossible to describe, using only "fuzzy world" science and semantics he is able to experience and discover other "states of awareness" and being.

So I believe we are living in this fuzzy world. The other world is a heightened world where we experience a different kind of existence, which is "more real" than this one. It is like you stop being in General Relativity world and start existing in Quantum world.

Hey! maybe this guy is right and consciousness IS "the result of quantum gravity effects in microtubules". I completely agree with him when he says that "that known laws of physics are inadequate to explain the phenomenon of consciousness".

I have a dualistic view of the human existence

Pim Van Lommel presents the "TV model" to explain the possible relationship of conscience with the brain.

Now. I'll refrain from proving anything here because if I could do that in "bullet proof" style I would not be here.

 

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


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I just found this! I haven't

I just found this! I haven't seen it yet! This guy is one of the best researchers in the field!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPwMJQms8JE"> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPwMJQms8JE

 

Lancet Study

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:As

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

As meaningless gibberish goes that is still in the wannbe class but you can found a cult if you keep it up.

What is your physical evidenc for any of it? Describe the experiments which demontrated their existence. 

To see how things really look like, we must look at them from multiple points of view. This is one of them, one theoretical framework that I find very useful for things that I have to deal with in life. If you'd know me better you'd see I'm not interested in cults or belief without a greater purpose. There is a proverbial economic and political sky falling on our heads and I should found a cult?

There is some scientific research that supports some aspects of what I say, for example, professor James DeMeo, his laboratory, experiments, technologies and publications. Miroslav Provod. Dr. Harry Oldfield and his technologies. And the most comprehensive resource is Jay Alfred, who compiled lots of evidence from many areas of science, after all, this is something that affects all aspects of society and nature. Of course, all contemporary scientific work is a technical or biologic level, a work to estabilish fundamentals of subtle-material existence. 

As for the existence of Masters, that is still in the area of personal reports, photographs, history and other non-physical data, save for physical manifestations, like holographic "light crosses" in the glass pane structure, and so on. But I don't claim that this is the way to salvation or something like that, it's more like a technical curiosity.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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truth wrote:Is the Ouija

truth wrote:

Is the Ouija board a way to communicate with the spirit world, or is it all "hokum" ?

The Ouija is at least an unexplained phenomenon. I know you don't believe me but I've tryed it and it works, I dare you to do the same with people you trust.

I used the table setting with 4 people, which completely invalidates the Ideomotor effect... that and the weight of the glass. 

I had to lift my butt of the chair so that my finger wouldn't loose contact with the glass.

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


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truth wrote:Reminds

truth wrote:

Reminds me..........dam i need to know the answer now that you brought it up, why IS the humans "lil guy" bigger than the animals you mentioned?

Apes aren't that promiscuous, the alpha male protects his harem by the strength of his muscles. There is no need to impress ladies by the size of the "tool". But it shows that our ancestors were into gruppensex, the size and shape of male organ seem to be fitted for scooping away the rival sperm... I think only one species are such pervs, our nearest cousin the bonobo chimp.
No wonder Christians don't like evolutionary biology, understanding evolution makes your mind dirty. 

truth wrote:
 Why do women "bleed" every month, how did this come about and why? How did they deal with it in the past, 100's, 1000's, of years ago?
That's explained in the ancient Jewish manuscript, the Evangelium of Eve. When Eve sinned in the garden of Eden, God was very angry. He told Eve: "Thou shall pay with your blood!" But Eve was clever and managed to haggle it down on monthly payments. Smiling

But seriously, from the evolutionary point of view, women aren't supposed to have monthly periods. They used to be permanently pregnant. Menses seems to be a "modern" invention. But people are industrious. I know that during the Roman empire there grew a variety of fennel that was nearly 100% contraceptive, without any side effects. It was so popular that the Roman bastards farmed it into extinction, not leaving any for us. Dammit, some scientist should take some nearest relative of this fennel and cultivate it back to its magical power.
Various cultures treated "bleeding" women in a various way. Barbaric Jews of the Old Testament called them impure, locked them up and thought they're full of girl cooties. Some other cultures were more industrious, women in their period used to walk on the fields of crops afflicted with caterpillars and basically acted as an insecticide  Smiling

 

truth wrote:
 What are your thoughts on Zen Buddhism?
No thoughts... Silence....        Smiling

 

truth wrote:
 How did people in the ancient past know about Chakras? How/where did they get this information?
By observation, of course. To use the senses of etheric body means to have etheric sight, touch, hearing and so on. For example, I was born with etheric touch sense. I'd prefer etheric sight, but touch is better than nothing. I don't see anything more than an untrained person, which means a glimpse here and there when circumstances are right.

Many religions and traditions of the past contain this knowledge. Orthodox Christian icons show saints with their heart chakra radiating or aureola around their head - or whole body. Some old cathedrals contain Freemason or Rosicrucian esoteric symbolics, that the clever builders hid into the architecture and murals, for example a cross made of seven loops, with the fourth (central) one with a heart inside.  (I think it's in some cathedral in Slovakia) Of course, in Hinduism that's a common knowledge. What I find curious is the traditional Chinese medicine. This tradition seems to be focused on the downright electric wiring of meridians and seems to ignore the chakras, which are a hard thing to miss. 

truth wrote:
 Are NDE's a valid way to know what happens after we die?
That depends on how you look at it. Some esotericists say, that dying correctly and getting a smooth ride is an art that should be trained. Our emotions reflect themselves in the material composition of our astral body. The lowest desires and fears burden us down and it takes time before they dissolve. The worst are desires for things that only living people may have, like house or wealth we left behind, or alcoholic desire. The worst fear cases are suicide "victims" or religious fundies pathologically afraid of the eternal damnation doctrine, afraid to go anywhere because there might be the hell. So basically having a NDE (or just remembering some philosophies of afterlife) can be a great help later, positive expectations will make things go better. Dying peacefully and aware (or even in deep meditation) is highly recommended.

It's not like we're in any physical danger after death, but there are different problems than staying alive. You could read up lots of interesting info on that in this and this book. There are two ways we can look at the astral world, either as a dreamworld that shapes itself according to our expectations, wishes and fears - but much like Earth on sight, or a magnetic "dark matter" (highly colourful and luminous) plasma sphere around Earth with ovoid plasma life forms sustained by solar energy and perceiving and shaping illusory bubbles of their personal surroundings as a human dreamworld. 

truth wrote:
 Why are, correct me if I'm wrong, men more "logical" and women more "emotional" driven?
There are neurologic differences, due to how primitive societies divide and specialize roles of men and women. Basically, men went hunting or fighting into the forest. They had to keep silent, stay oriented in the terrain, communicate only a meaningful factual and necessary information, solve problems, deal with threats, be strong and competent. Women, on the other hand, held the torch of civilization. They stayed near the cave or camp and went gathering berries, fruits or whatever. They had to stay in contact by talking aloud, if one of women got silent, that likely meant some sabretooth cat carried her away for dinner. Women had to get along all the time and hold back submarine syndrome by avoiding conflicts, acting subtly, indirectly and submissively and by punishing other women by social ostracization (not talking to them) rather than physically. Obviously, their life style didn't require a great independence and spatial orientation skills, but instead they're de facto more civilized and society-oriented. 

Today this division becomes meaningless and we get social phenomena like "bromance" and businesswomen. You should read a book like "Men are from Mars and women are from Venus", it's explained well enough there. Although even today men and women are still far away from true equality, the capitalism is to blame. In capitalism genders can't be equal, because men have to work for money and women for family, without pay. In communism it's even worse, women must too work like men, putting children early into the creches. I believe men and women are equal, but our society isn't right for that.

truth wrote:
 How did being allergic to certain things come out?
Allergy isn't well understood yet. Lots of allergy cases are psychosomatic. I believe our ways of thinking and living cause the brain to produce neuropeptides. There are many kinds of neuropeptides and they're basically signals for the immunity system. Immunity cells react to these signals very selectively and some of these reactions are allergic. Some may cause the immune system neglect its duties in some part of the body and let the cancer develop there when some cell fails, or attack another part of the body, like colon in the Crohn's disease. Not all of these effects are psychosomatic, but some are. For example, inflammed tonsils or asthma is a typical effect of living under pressure from the family. Removing tonsils is not a cure here, it's just a thing for allopathic doctors to show on paper as a result.

There seems to be a psycho-symbolic effect in there. I had even hear some people say, that pollen allergy is a symbolic psychosomatic sign of sexual frustration, you know, the pollen being the reproductory cells of plants. Which would explain why pollen allergy is so common among adolescents but tends to get better later in life Smiling But of course, much of allergy is also a result of lack of exposure to the allergens in early childhood, so the body just isn't used to them. 

truth wrote:
 Is the Ouija board a way to communicate with the spirit world, or is it all "hokum" ?
Ouija board is a piece of wood, tarot cards are pieces of paper, pendulum is weight on a string or a metal spring. These things all depend on the person doing it, or better said, on their microscopic subconscious muscle movements. It depends on the person, if such divination is an intentional fraud, listening to one's subconsciousness, or most often as I believe, astral or higher sensitivity.
You can only tell by the results and the person's life (standards, motivation and so on) which is the case. Some highly gifted and trained people use the kinesiologic test of muscle tension, where they read reactions of the other person. I had even seen one extraordinary woman to use this muscle test, but on her one hand if she was in hurry. But sometimes she skipped that and "streamed" the information directly. It was of course mostly information that we could not possibly know and she wasn't in any way interested in it nor financially motivated. 
Basically, the quality of a person decides, not the method, although some method are more convenient. Greedy people may be able to contact the spirit world, but they'll dial up a greedy spirit on the other side. Like attracts like, things and minds get together by similar resonance. That's why esotericists place so much emphasis on morality, your purity of motivation is your phone number.
 

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Luminon wrote:... purity of

Luminon wrote:

... purity of motivation...
 

I like that


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Teralek wrote:I just found

Teralek wrote:

I just found this! I haven't seen it yet! This guy is one of the best researchers in the field!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPwMJQms8JE"> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPwMJQms8JE 

Lancet Study

That's wonderful, I'm curious what the local hardcore materialists think about it! 
The materialism-defying science is out there and I've seen some skeptics to get silent when confronted with it. Nothing more than that, unfortunately, they just said they'll look at it and never reported back. It takes more than just an anomalous internet material to make someone change a worldview. We can't just come back with a new opinion among our people and make a lecture to justify it to anyone who confronts us about this new craziness. We need a public discussion for that. Little will change, until there will be a public discussion.

It is possible to have a simple theory that unifies and explains all the thousands of pieces of anomalous material out there. Except of course for crazy conspiratory stuff that people with tinfoil hat believe in.

I have written multiple times on that theory, of 4 space-time dimensions and about 7 material (string) dimensions, with corresponding bodies that together make up a whole person. It's a very simple theory, yet with profound implications. For example, it explains why Dr. Van Lommel above has people reporting an enhanced state of consciousness, although their brain was out. The consciousness is like a light streaming from "above", every subsequent subtle body down to the biologic body works as a lampshade or filter and has gradually lower clarity consciousness. One of the bodies (usually the biologic one) is always a seat of consciousness, a final lens focusing the "light". 

 

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 ... This is the first time

 ... This is the first time I put his interview here, but I already showed them the Lancet Study... nothing changed... most of them are die-hard people... you should know that already.

I think I know what the problem is: There is this "brave new world" as a possibility BUT the public discussion that you want gets corrupted by organized religions AND by impatient Skeptics who are tired of all this non sensical religious ideas.

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


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Luminon

How did meditation originate. Could some of this knowledge like chakras, meditation, chi, have been revealed by god/gods/advanced beings? I find it hard to believe that humans could have known this back in the day...Weren't humans barbaric and ignorant.

What would happen to my soul if I were to commit suicide.

What are your thoughts on this http://consc.net/papers/matrix.html Take note of the first picture shown.


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truth wrote:How did

truth wrote:

How did meditation originate. Could some of this knowledge like chakras, meditation, chi, have been revealed by god/gods/advanced beings? I find it hard to believe that humans could have known this back in the day...Weren't humans barbaric and ignorant.

What would happen to my soul if I were to commit suicide.

What are your thoughts on this http://consc.net/papers/matrix.html Take note of the first picture shown.

I know about the brain in a vat thought experiment. It's a valid thought. There are things for and against it.

The nature of matter and the observator problem in quantum experiments seem to point to a "diffuse" nature of matter and energy.

On the other hand it seems to exist "something" beyond what is percieved by our senses - Both people with sight and blind people crash into walls. The world seems predictable independently of your senses range, or on how you see the world.

I actually believe in something similar to a "brain in a vat". I believe that conscience manifests itself not from the brain but Through it! It's not the brain that's in a Vat it's the "subjective conscience" itself that's in a vat, or in this case, a brain. I call it subjective not just because of it's personal nature but also because in our current development we can't yet "measure" conscience. Conscience is actually one of the biggest mysteries in neuroscience.

Meditation started perhaps with someone focusing so much on the "self" that effectivelly shut off the world outside. Thus allowing the brain to enter another state. Chakras and chi's and such is part of eastern philosophies and religions. I am  a skeptic to those, meaning I have not seen convincing evidence that chakras exist. Or that work through them produced significant effects outside placebo. I have done a Reiki course and I remained skeptic.

NDE experiences are pretty clear and unanymous regarding suicide. Your "soul" would be lost and un prepared for the "next stage". It's like you have made a contract and you forfeit it, you would have to return again to earth life. You would feel very bad about it. Everything is self imposed and self judged, there is no power judging your act but you would be very hard on yourself for your act, as if it was an act against Nature. 

When you die you have a radically different perspective of reality (eg. Plato's cave).

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


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Teralek wrote:truth

Teralek wrote:

truth wrote:

How did meditation originate. Could some of this knowledge like chakras, meditation, chi, have been revealed by god/gods/advanced beings? I find it hard to believe that humans could have known this back in the day...Weren't humans barbaric and ignorant.

What would happen to my soul if I were to commit suicide.

What are your thoughts on this http://consc.net/papers/matrix.html Take note of the first picture shown.

I know about the brain in a vat thought experiment. It's a valid thought. There are things for and against it.

The nature of matter and the observator problem in quantum experiments seem to point to a "diffuse" nature of matter and energy.

On the other hand it seems to exist "something" beyond what is percieved by our senses - Both people with sight and blind people crash into walls. The world seems predictable independently of your senses range, or on how you see the world.

I actually believe in something similar to a "brain in a vat". I believe that conscience manifests itself not from the brain but Through it! It's not the brain that's in a Vat it's the "subjective conscience" itself that's in a vat, or in this case, a brain. I call it subjective not just because of it's personal nature but also because in our current development we can't yet "measure" conscience. Conscience is actually one of the biggest mysteries in neuroscience.

Meditation started perhaps with someone focusing so much on the "self" that effectivelly shut off the world outside. Thus allowing the brain to enter another state. Chakras and chi's and such is part of eastern philosophies and religions. I am  a skeptic to those, meaning I have not seen convincing evidence that chakras exist. Or that work through them produced significant effects outside placebo. I have done a Reiki course and I remained skeptic.

NDE experiences are pretty clear and unanymous regarding suicide. Your "soul" would be lost and un prepared for the "next stage". It's like you have made a contract and you forfeit it, you would have to return again to earth life. You would feel very bad about it. Everything is self imposed and self judged, there is no power judging your act but you would be very hard on yourself for your act, as if it was an act against Nature. 

When you die you have a radically different perspective of reality (eg. Plato's cave).

 

There may be other natural alternatives to explain NDE's. What I see as a recurring theme in peoples testimonies is that we must love. Love is the only truth. NDE's vary way too much for me to trrust them. Some people say they are in hell whilst most experience something pleasant. I dont see them as a good source to explain what happens after we die.

 

I have heard there's more to reality than our 5 limited senses. This reminds of a Shaekespeare quote when he said "Theres more on heaven and on earth than is dreampt up....."


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truth wrote:How did

truth wrote:

How did meditation originate. Could some of this knowledge like chakras, meditation, chi, have been revealed by god/gods/advanced beings? I find it hard to believe that humans could have known this back in the day...Weren't humans barbaric and ignorant. 

Good question. Theosophy speaks of the Ageless Wisdom teaching, that is a teaching that was always there, as long as humanity exists (and some pieces of it can be found in major world's religions). The history from the point of view of an esotericist is upside down. We didn't exactly evolve out of animalistic primitiveness and gathered all the knowledge by ourselves. First "we" had to descend from our spiritual nature, where knowledge without thinking was granted by the doubtful virtue of collective consciousness, or better said, lack of individual consciousness. Christians might call that an unfortunate exile from the paradise, esotericists call it involution, descent from the comfortable subtle realms to colonization of the material world, inhabiting it with life, albeit primitive life at first. 

So we get these legends of early human races, like Lemurian or Atlantean, where people did not have a properly sharp personality and consciousness like we may have, but they picked a lot of wisdom directly. From whom? From an organized group of highly advanced individuals, god-like men who first came from another, more developed planet (on subtle world levels of that planet, of course, not physically)  and later recruited the more evolved earthlings into their ranks. Today all but a few are local people, some of them famous from their incarnations. In many cases they incarnated as teachers, to act out a symbolical story with esoteric meaning for a local culture (hence we get parallels between Jesus, Mithras, Dionysos, etc) and usher a new era of civilization. (reminds me a lot of Frank Herbert's Bene Gesserit and their missionaria protectiva policy) Such is the legend of how we got here. I don't say I understand it all or that it all jibes with me, but to understand esotericism one must understand this story.

So this group of god-like men, teachers, guides is called the Great White Brotherhood or the Hierarchy. This present state of ignorance lasts since 100,000 years ago, when there was a great war that ended with stalemate, after which the Hierarchy went into hiding. Only now they want to emerge again to become public figures in daily life of humanity as they once were. Not as Atlantean priest-kings, but as teachers, some global, some according to their chosen departments like science or religions. And that is a very sensitive process (to not infringe humanity's free will) and one of the most far-fetched sounding topics in esotericism, one of the most ridden with New Age delusions and commercial propaganda. 

I don't know how reliable the stories are. But from my personal observations I can say that it is possible for such an ascended person to inhabit higher subtle realms and to materialize a temporary illusory body (etheric or dense) at need to intervene in the world where necessary. I am involved in activities that benefit the goals of Hierarchy and from this position I can tell that they exist, that they perform some visible activity in the world and I can also see what they want and what kind of a person they value as a disciple and a worker. And one kind of workers they value greatly is someone, who can be trained to receive their messages clearly. Such people are the authors of some books on the Ageless Wisdom. 

According to the teaching, meditation of whatever kind is the basic method of building connection with the soul, called antahkarana. As such it has universal importance and is recommended in any system influenced by the Ageless Wisdom or the Hierarchy. There is no pure mind and body, what we consider as mind is still a mechanism, albeit made mostly of astral matter. And our range of consciousness is rather technically determined by the state of our chakras and subtle bodies in general. We can imagine the chakras like holes on a flute on which the soul is playing - the breath is the consciousness and the music is our life. (see the symbolism, Krishna was a flute player) . 

truth wrote:
 What would happen to my soul if I were to commit suicide.
To your soul? Nothing. The soul, or the superconsciousness or higher self doesn't get born and doesn't die. But as for what happens to the personality vehicle that commits the suicide... Inherently, nothing. Nothing special because of the suicide itself. Some people say the person stays in low astral levels as long as it would take him to live a normal lifetime, but I think it's their religious reverence to life, rather than technical fact.

The suicide is usually a sign of deeper problems. These problems have to be dealt with. If the problems reflect themselves as a coarse composition of the astral body, then the period of astral stay isn't pleasant nor short. There may be even some haunting of places of suicide. Alternatively, the higher awareness after death might show the person a solution to the life problem that he didn't see - but from where he is now he can't do anything about it, which is not pleasant either. Anyway, whatever happens, the progress can not be stopped. After several years or even centuries the personality will either reincarnate on its own, or get re-processed by the soul and incarnate again. If a proper realization of the problem and lesson was not achieved, the person will have to solve a similar problem in the next life, otherwise there might be just a small version of it or nothing at all. So if you don't want to burden your next life with today's problems, solve them in this one.

Theoretically, if you're very old or terminally ill and suffering, I don't see a reason why you couldn't take a cyanide pill. It's a risk that you miss some lesson of life, but it's your life and an acceptable risk. But I'd rather achieve such a soul influence on me that the soul will be able to take me out when it's time without any drastical measures. It's the motivation and your condition that matters, not if and how you end your life. I believe there is a difference between Socrates drinking his hemlock and a drug addict who got really desperate.

truth wrote:
 What are your thoughts on this http://consc.net/papers/matrix.html Take note of the first picture shown.

What do you actually think about it? Why do you want my opinion?

I personally consider this an irrelevant, mechanistic Cartesian philosophy. It can be all answered by one big SO WHAT? It makes claims about the nature of the world, but no purpose is coming out of it. No suggestion what to do, is it best to wake up from the Matrix, or to achieve perfection within the Matrix? What method leads to these goals? How can we improve our lives within (or outside) the Matrix? Is there any greater purpose of Matrix? 

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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Many philosophical concepts

Many philosophical concepts actually try to shut the Matrix off. By meditation, by rationality, by ignoring the passion of the senses. Enlightnment is pursued in the History of philosophy as an attempt to be free from the Matrix - The decieving input of our senses

You like to give thorough explanations don't you Luminon? 

I don't think the "brain is a vat" is irrelevant. Like many thought experiments in philosophy is a good metaphor to make a point. I use it not because I believe it literally but as a example of a close real life condition.

NDE showed me a conflicting problem that up until now I was not able to resolve:

The existence people seem to describe is of absolute clarity. Emotions are strong, well being is way up. Your feeling of belonging is off the chart.

You have a true perspective of the Universe and it's purpose. In comparison this life looks like a slumbering dream and the "other" life a marvelous awakening.

Now the problem is; who in their right mind would want to live here, a mere mortal being. Learning seems such a slow process in comparison and we get conditioned all the time by our physical biology. We need to eat, to breath, to fight bacteria, to look for sex, etc All these activities consume time and seem futile if you look at them from afar. They actually greatly condition our free will.

It looks clear that in NDE nothing is imposed. People can choose. How can believers in reincarnation reconcile this? If NDE is right about the transcendency of conscience then who would want to come back here? There is NOTHING here better than on the "other side".

I'm not a believer in reincarnation in the orthodox view. My problem is, what's the point in this life. We can learn so much more in the Clear mind of the "spiritual" world. Here everything is too shadowed by the limits of human brain and the needs and passions of the ephemeral human body.

If I speculate, the most rational explanation I found was that we are here in the same way a baby has to stay 9 months on a women's womb. We are not ready for the higher plane until we live a lifetime on Earth. This is just to build up the basics.

I believe the soul purity needed to overcome the need to be born again, as most reincarnation advocates say, is not true. If you analyse the NDEs you get this conclusion. You can clearly see that there is nothing in the physical plane better than in the "spiritual" plane - This is a clear Plato's cave metaphor.

True NDE can have a "naturalistic" explanation, but up until now none was found.

 

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


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Luminon wrote:What do you

Luminon wrote:

What do you actually think about it? Why do you want my opinion?

I personally consider this an irrelevant, mechanistic Cartesian philosophy. It can be all answered by one big SO WHAT? It makes claims about the nature of the world, but no purpose is coming out of it. No suggestion what to do, is it best to wake up from the Matrix, or to achieve perfection within the Matrix? What method leads to these goals? How can we improve our lives within (or outside) the Matrix? Is there any greater purpose of Matrix? 

If some smart evil aliens have us in this matrix, i think we should want to get the fuck out. I think they everything about us so theres no way we can get out. Having said that i guess we could just forget about it..

Yes its best to wake up from the matrix just like Neo did

"I'm going to show these people what You dont want them to see.. a world without boundaries.. a world without rules... "

We cant achieven perfection in a matrix because after all, were in a matrix. A matrix by definition is an evil concept. Being in the matrx/a matrix=bad

I guess we cant ever really know if we are in a matrix not... if were in one big hologram or not... if an alien just farted us into existence or not...


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Luminon wrote:So if you

Luminon wrote:

So if you don't want to burden your next life with today's problems, solve them in this one.

 

Dam i don't like the idea that if i don't solve my problems now i have to face them in another life..quite harsh if you ask me..i would prefer to never have been born in the first place

Its like were trapped in this endless cycle. You either do good and solve all your problems and pay off your karma or youll have go go thru all this in your next life until finally you achieve perfection..

I gotta agree with atheists.. this is the only life we are guaranteed to have, no? Why waste our time focusing on another life or think will live again? ego much?

 


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Teralek wrote:Meditation

Teralek wrote:

Meditation started perhaps with someone focusing so much on the "self" that effectivelly shut off the world outside. Thus allowing the brain to enter another state.

 Maybe meditation was first discovered when a primordial man got nagged by his primordial woman and went fishing, which involves lots of quiet time. But I've read something in an advertisement on a psychowalkman. Reputedly, our cousins chimps travel great distances to places where they can sit on tree branches and observe sunlight reflections on water ripples. I don't know if that qualifies as a meditation, if yes then it might be a natural tendency of our species.

Teralek wrote:
 Chakras and chi's and such is part of eastern philosophies and religions. I am  a skeptic to those, meaning I have not seen convincing evidence that chakras exist. Or that work through them produced significant effects outside placebo. I have done a Reiki course and I remained skeptic.
Technically, Reiki is using an astral energy source for healing. It's simplier that way but doesn't necessarily force you to become a conscious user of your etheric body. It's more of an automatic process. I suppose people report things like strange heat coming out of hands and so on, but that isn't enough to convince you, right? 

We can feel our chakras in a rudimentary way, when doing corresponding activities. (they're after all connected to major endocrine glands) For example, my ajna chakra (forehead) is very active, actually way too much, due to my cerebral activities. It's a real buzz, as my one friend digital artist from Canada once described it. Besides the physical feelings of pressure and excitation in that spot it's accompanied by characteristic high-frequency hissing. But in a similar way, through a meditation of compassion you can focus energy in the heart chakra (energy follows thought) and excitate it so much that you can feel it. It of course improves with practice and intensity of concentration. I was born with this sensitivity so I can't tell how long it takes, but if you do such training in boring free moments of daily life, you should get the results. Focusing on heart chakra is generally safe, but common sense is still necessary.  

Teralek wrote:
 

When you die you have a radically different perspective of reality (eg. Plato's cave).

I wouldn't say so. In my opinion Plato's cave refers to the total incarnatory development of a person, not in what stage of afterlife that person is. Death will not make people more spiritual or moral. It may remove limitations of the physical brain and give a new perspective, but astral body is most of people's vehicle of personality and they'll generally try to keep doing what they did in life.

This is why I'm inclined to believe that NDE involves an intervention of the person's soul, otherwise people would keep seeing what they want to see or fear to see, like pearly gates or hell with classy red horned devils. The positive, loving experience reminds me very much of the soul contact. The soul literally loves us, it is the standard and permanent state of consciousness on the soul level. 

 

Teralek wrote:
You like to give thorough explanations don't you Luminon? 
You bet! I try to prune the paragraphs, but...

Teralek wrote:
 I don't think the "brain is a vat" is irrelevant. Like many thought experiments in philosophy is a good metaphor to make a point. I use it not because I believe it literally but as a example of a close real life condition.
I think it's a consistent thought, but what is the point? Mere consistency isn't enough. I'm after the errors in matrix, the cracks in the vat, the peep holes from here to there. A perfect matrix is as good as no matrix at all. 

Teralek wrote:
 NDE showed me a conflicting problem that up until now I was not able to resolve:

The existence people seem to describe is of absolute clarity. Emotions are strong, well being is way up. Your feeling of belonging is off the chart.

You have a true perspective of the Universe and it's purpose. In comparison this life looks like a slumbering dream and the "other" life a marvelous awakening.

Now the problem is; who in their right mind would want to live here, a mere mortal being. Learning seems such a slow process in comparison and we get conditioned all the time by our physical biology. We need to eat, to breath, to fight bacteria, to look for sex, etc All these activities consume time and seem futile if you look at them from afar. They actually greatly condition our free will.

It looks clear that in NDE nothing is imposed. People can choose. How can believers in reincarnation reconcile this? If NDE is right about the transcendency of conscience then who would want to come back here? There is NOTHING here better than on the "other side".

I'm not a believer in reincarnation in the orthodox view. My problem is, what's the point in this life. We can learn so much more in the Clear mind of the "spiritual" world. Here everything is too shadowed by the limits of human brain and the needs and passions of the ephemeral human body.

If I speculate, the most rational explanation I found was that we are here in the same way a baby has to stay 9 months on a women's womb. We are not ready for the higher plane until we live a lifetime on Earth. This is just to build up the basics.

I believe the soul purity needed to overcome the need to be born again, as most reincarnation advocates say, is not true. If you analyse the NDEs you get this conclusion. You can clearly see that there is nothing in the physical plane better than in the "spiritual" plane - This is a clear Plato's cave metaphor.

True NDE can have a "naturalistic" explanation, but up until now none was found. 

I think you answered yourself. Maybe we can "learn" on the "other side" and feel there better than anywhere else. But we can't ACCOMPLISH anything! There is nothing to do, nothing to achieve, no diffculties to overcome. Learning is so easy, that there soon isn't nothing new to learn. Except the strange and mysterious experience of living (what's that?) in confines (what's that?) of physical matter. (what's that?) Eating? Sounds interesting. Defecation? Sounds fun! Let's go there! And there's more, there are the captivating entertainments of warfare, theft, murder, pillage and many other scenes on the cinema of this pale physical reality. No wonder it takes many thousands of lifetimes of this frantic and oblivious "entertainment", before a personality turns away from the world, back in a general direction of the forgotten soul. Initially it takes lots of suffering to renounce the world and to start looking for something beyond it.

The principle of involution is the direction of evolving "downwards", involving itself with material world, even in most possessive and aggressive ways, without concepts of good and evil and thereby colonizing it. Humanity already evolves in opposite direction and any involutionary activities are evil to us. So we get people who try to ascend back again to the higher levels of the soul, lotus eaters like me. Which is understandable, I think the soul had to to kick me out of up there, otherwise I wouldn't go. But that is wrong, we're not supposed to get out of the material world, but stay here, develop a powerful but disciplined ego and hand over a control over it to the soul. Our subtle bodies are instruments for the soul (and monad) to reach and act directly here in the physical reality, with all the geniality, wisdom and power that it has. The more of soul qualities we are able to manifest, the greater impact we have on the world and such people often enter the history. Once we learned all that Earth life system has to offer, we're free to go and not to incarnate, and if yes, then instantly as a mayavirupa. But such a person is not a manifestation of ego, it is not even the soul, it is monad, something that used the soul as an interface to the lower worlds and something that even most of esotericists can't properly comprehend yet. And people who can - well, I suppose they don't need esotericism anymore. 

 

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truth wrote:If some smart

truth wrote:

If some smart evil aliens have us in this matrix, i think we should want to get the fuck out. I think they everything about us so theres no way we can get out. Having said that i guess we could just forget about it..

Yes its best to wake up from the matrix just like Neo did

"I'm going to show these people what You dont want them to see.. a world without boundaries.. a world without rules... "

We cant achieven perfection in a matrix because after all, were in a matrix. A matrix by definition is an evil concept. Being in the matrx/a matrix=bad

Well, what if the matrix is sort of a living organism? What if the matrix actually needs us for its own development, which is why it created us? What if our way towards perfection also helps to make the matrix a little better for everyone? That wouldn't be so bad. Maybe annoying, but we're in this together and maybe we either leave as a group, or not at all.

truth wrote:

Dam i don't like the idea that if i don't solve my problems now i have to face them in another life..quite harsh if you ask me..i would prefer to never have been born in the first place

Its like were trapped in this endless cycle. You either do good and solve all your problems and pay off your karma or youll have go go thru all this in your next life until finally you achieve perfection..

I don't believe it must be all precise and perfect. From the practice it seems the soul rather wants us to get an idea of what's going on, to gain an ability, experience or realization, not necessarily to do a particular thing. It's also more like living your life as a race through waypoints. You might miss some and hit some, but hardly anybody will ever hit them all. Nevermind me, I'm just the lazy type who wants to do things in advance and then have a lot of free time to roll my proverbial hams.

Yes, it may be harsh. Once you start dealing with the soul, you can't stop. The soul will leave you in peace for tens of thousands of lives, but when you seriously start meditating and contacting it, it won't let you go anymore, maybe for a few lives. If you stray seriously off the path of its plan of development, it will employ corrective measures, like bad coincidences, accidents and eventually fatal diseases. If you realize what's wrong and stop doing it, even a tumor may "miraculously" go into remission, but nothing will help you if you stray again. (my grandma died like that) For the souls we are their instruments, their hands and our life is an illusion from their lofty point of view. They may not hesitate to take us out of that illusion (kill us) if we keep repeating our mistakes despite of decades of symbolical signs, hints and corrective measures. They love us, that is their state of consciousness, but it's a tough love. We, the egos are not meant to forever exist independently from our soul or from other people, we're in this mess together.

truth wrote:
 I gotta agree with atheists.. this is the only life we are guaranteed to have, no? Why waste our time focusing on another life or think will live again? ego much? 
No, I say we should focus on this life! "We live only onces," esotericists say Smiling I just prefer new problems over old problems. 

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Thanks very much for the

Thanks very much for the answers.

 

I dont have any questions at the moment.


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Luminon wrote:I suppose

Luminon wrote:

I suppose people report things like strange heat coming out of hands and so on, but that isn't enough to convince you, right? 

I believe in healing, intentional healing. Meaning if you do a "meditative healing" you cal physically heal by a known phenomenon of mind over matter (placebo) my unknown methods. This can be translated in reports of heat coming from hands. However temperature increase is a mesurable physical effect. Are there meditative increase of hand temperature registered by scientific studies?? 

What you said about chakras seems to me just sugestion.  "accompanied by characteristic high-frequency hissing" ?????!!!
 

 

Luminon wrote:
Death will not make people more spiritual or moral. It may remove limitations of the physical brain and give a new perspective, but astral body is most of people's vehicle of personality and they'll generally try to keep doing what they did in life.

Really?!

 

Luminon wrote:
This is why I'm inclined to believe that NDE involves an intervention of the person's soul, otherwise people would keep seeing what they want to see or fear to see, like pearly gates or hell with classy red horned devils. The positive, loving experience reminds me very much of the soul contact. The soul literally loves us, it is the standard and permanent state of consciousness on the soul level. 

Really?! You speak of the "soul" as something different from conscience. Thus something weird... purelly theoretical phenomenon.

   

Luminon wrote:
I think it's a consistent thought, but what is the point? Mere consistency isn't enough. I'm after the errors in matrix, the cracks in the vat, the peep holes from here to there. A perfect matrix is as good as no matrix at all. 
 

You are taking things too literally again. I used the Matrix model to exemplify how a completely different reality "above" this one could work. It's a metaphor which I use as a starting point, not an end. Sometimes when you talk about your stuff it becomes unintelligible to me...

 

Luminon wrote:
I think you answered yourself. Maybe we can "learn" on the "other side" and feel there better than anywhere else. But we can't ACCOMPLISH anything! There is nothing to do, nothing to achieve, no diffculties to overcome. Learning is so easy, that there soon isn't nothing new to learn. Except the strange and mysterious experience of living (what's that?) in confines (what's that?) of physical matter. (what's that?) Eating? Sounds interesting. Defecation? Sounds fun! Let's go there! And there's more, there are the captivating entertainments of warfare, theft, murder, pillage and many other scenes on the cinema of this pale physical reality. No wonder it takes many thousands of lifetimes of this frantic and oblivious "entertainment", before a personality turns away from the world, back in a general direction of the forgotten soul. Initially it takes lots of suffering to renounce the world and to start looking for something beyond it.
 

REALLY??!!

This is why I like so much the NDE phenomenon. It does not support Christian views, Atheism, Theosophy (new age), etc... It's a phenomenon on it's own.

Ok let's think about for a moment on some quotes by near death experimenters. They are actually more clear than me sometimes:

" I felt it was pulling me out of the top of my head" - "It was not like normal vision. It was brighter and more focused and clearer than normal vision ... There was so much in the operating room that I didn't recognize, and so many people." - "There was a sensation like being pulled, but not against your will. I was going on my own accord because I wanted to go." - "At some point very early in the tunnel vortex I became aware of my grandmother calling me. But I didn't hear her call me with my ears ... It was a clearer hearing than with my ears. I trust that sense more than I trust my own ears." - "It was so bright that I put my hands in front of my face fully expecting to see them and I could not. But I knew they were there. Not from a sense of touch. Again, it's terribly hard to explain, but I knew they were there ..."They would not permit me to go further ... It was communicated to me - that's the best way I know how to say it, because they didn't speak like I'm speaking - that if I went all the way into the light something would happen to me physically. They would be unable to put this me back into the body me, like I had gone too far and they couldn't reconnect." - "But then I got to the end of it and saw the thing, my body. I didn't want to get into it ... It looked terrible, like a train wreck. It looked like what it was: dead. I believe it was covered. It scared me and I didn't want to look at it." - " I didn't want to, but I guess I was late or something because he [the uncle] pushed me."

"I became massively aware, unlike any awareness I had had during physical existence. I was not really aware of myself. I was aware of everyone around me. I was aware of my mother and my neighbors, and my friends and the firemen and what they were thinking and what they were feeling and what they were hoping and what they were praying. This was such a pummeling input of emotion and information that I was all at once overwhelmed and confused, and rather disoriented. "

- "I became aware that the thing on the sidewalk, that thing that suddenly became a piece of meat to me, was what I had identified as myself before, but had no connection with it other than that I had been with it for a very long time. But it had nothing to do with me because suddenly, I was more of a person than I had ever been before. I was more conscious than I could ever be. I was free of the limitations of being a physical being. "

- "I looked at my body and I was repulsed with the grief and the tumult around it and with the very idea that I had ever considered something physical to be my reality, to be a human reality. "

"I was aware of things about him that I had never been aware of in life. I didn't spend much time with him and I didn't know him well."

" I was begging not to leave. I crashed down into this realm of existence and was suddenly confused by time and space. It was as if I had never existed physically. I was suddenly disoriented. "

You can still learn and evolve simply by interaction with other beings. The other plane also has experiences of it's own. How come, in your view, "nirvana souls" dont want to come back again here?! They loose the crave for the only thing that can give you mystery, evolution and adventure? They just comform to this amorphous world? If there is NOTHING to do why higher souls don't keep coming back forever and ever?

On the life reviews people seem to be much more aware of the moral consequences, than here, thus ethics is learned faster. Nothing is secret, you know everything of your sibling and your sibling knows everything from you. Understanding between people is done instantaniously and outside of the subjective nature of semantics. You comunicate without language through thoughts and feelings.

Most people who seem to distant themselfs from this "light" it's because they are way to shameful of themselfs and not worthy or/and they crave so much something of the physical life to the point that they are addicted to it like someone to heroin.

 
 

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


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Teralek wrote:Luminon

Teralek wrote:

Luminon wrote:

I suppose people report things like strange heat coming out of hands and so on, but that isn't enough to convince you, right? 

I believe in healing, intentional healing. Meaning if you do a "meditative healing" you cal physically heal by a known phenomenon of mind over matter (placebo) my unknown methods. This can be translated in reports of heat coming from hands. However temperature increase is a mesurable physical effect. Are there meditative increase of hand temperature registered by scientific studies?? 

What you said about chakras seems to me just sugestion.  "accompanied by characteristic high-frequency hissing" ?????!!!

The existence and daily function of chakras is so obvious to me, that I haven't yet searched for a scientific take on this. The hissing (or even extremely high-frequency ringing) is a typical sound reputedly caused by the energy of active head centers stimulating hearing cells or something. With most people it appears only during Transmission Meditation, although feeling of the energies may be visual (color lava lamp-like visions), auditory (hiss) and tactile. Tactile perception involves feeling of water-like flow of the energy and it's electric-like irritant quality... Well, irritant, it's actually rather pleasant like sexual stimulation, only not in a sexual way. During the meditation, energy flows slowly down from the crown chakra like a sweet sweet honey, accompanied by furious hissing of the ajna, which works like the "base" regulating element on the transistor path of collector-emitor, as it sends the energy downwards for further processing by throat and heart chakra. That's how I like it baby, give it to me Smiling 

But if you want some scientific take on the chakras, we can google up something together. There seems to be a number of studies on chi energy. The chakras were also measured, through electric and optical means. As for meridians, I have a good experience with EAV measuring. (it works well and costs only a few bucks here) And bad experience when they give me headache.
 

Teralek wrote:
 Really?!
Well, multiple astral travellers agree on that, like Robert Allan Monroe. 

Teralek wrote:
 Really?! You speak of the "soul" as something different from conscience. Thus something weird... purelly theoretical phenomenon.
Consciousness is a process. The soul is a superior part of the personality, our transcendental object, the holy grail of mystics. It is a source of pure consciousness, what we know as our daily awareness of ego is that consciousness filtered and colored through shades of our subtle bodies. A shadow play, an illusion which may vanish in deep meditation, when we focus our consciousness on the soul, there is no personal self.

The soul is not theoretical, it influenced and inspired many people, not only in NDE but in normal waking life. There is no scientific evidence for it, only cultural. But it is the main object of esotericism, a source of some sweet energy and bitter life lessons. When subtle bodies like etheric are well-known, it will be possible to demonstrate the soul's presence in the system, its control over certain energy centers of some people. 

 

Teralek wrote:
 REALLY??!!

This is why I like so much the NDE phenomenon. It does not support Christian views, Atheism, Theosophy (new age), etc... It's a phenomenon on it's own.

You really should read Robert Allan Monroe. Borrow his books from the library or something, I think you'll love them. It's about OOBE, NDE and all, seen from first-hand practice. And please don't equate Theosophy with NA movement, the latter is missing the intellectual value and some very essential warning signs. NA people have no discernment of the astral and aren't by definition taught about the importance of the soul.

 

Teralek wrote:
 You can still learn and evolve simply by interaction with other beings. The other plane also has experiences of it's own. How come, in your view, "nirvana souls" dont want to come back again here?! They loose the crave for the only thing that can give you mystery, evolution and adventure? They just comform to this amorphous world? If there is NOTHING to do why higher souls don't keep coming back forever and ever?
Not that there is nothing to do, but the soul itself wants to serve. It is an embodiment of love and harmony, and love demonstrated is service and work. To learn is a nice thing, but learning precedes work. That's what we are, instruments of the work and service. Once people estabilish some connection with the soul through meditation, they often feel an urge to help others, to do some charity and to improve the world. That is only natural, it's the desire to re-create the harmony and diverse unity that is on the soul level. Although that desire often goes wrong when we try to re-build it in material world. But if we undertake some service (not charity necessarily, but giving something out of our potential to others) the soul will gladly give us extra energy for that project. 

You know the Christian doctrine of how nobody can achieve his own salvation? That's grossly misunderstood, but there's a kernel of truth in it. We can't improve the soul or monad by what we do here. The actual improvement comes from how much we manifest things, ideas, qualities, from the higher (soul) levels to here. We learn, work, build and serve, but that is to build an infrastructure for the soul's manifestation in everyday reality, which is what we need. The soul doesn't need us where it is, we need it where we are. This is the meaning behind Christian phrase of bringing God's kingdom to Earth. 

 

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Especially Luminon,What are

Especially Luminon,

What are your thoughts on this series

It's 51 parts of 10 minutes each. I know what your thinking, this shits too long..

Alot of stuff said here is some stuff that i can guarantee you've never heard of before, even for someone like you Luminon...

Just skip over the bs part of it like the first video titled "proof from the holy quran" skip over that one if you want or videos you think are too religious or islamic to watch.

Reason why i want you to watch it is because it covers some deep stuff like architecture and energy, or inter dimensional beings, the "gatekeepers", the real truth behind 9/11, etc.

The producers are Muslims themselves, but they say some interesting things..

If you dont have time or dont want to watch all of them just watch parts: 5, 27 and 42 although I highly recommend you watch most if not all of them..

Start from the bottom up http://www.facebook.com/thearrivalsseries/videos

 


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truth wrote:Especially

truth wrote:

Especially Luminon,

What are your thoughts on this series

It's 51 parts of 10 minutes each. I know what your thinking, this shits too long..

Alot of stuff said here is some stuff that i can guarantee you've never heard of before, even for someone like you Luminon...

Just skip over the bs part of it like the first video titled "proof from the holy quran" skip over that one if you want or videos you think are too religious or islamic to watch.

Reason why i want you to watch it is because it covers some deep stuff like architecture and energy, or inter dimensional beings, the "gatekeepers", the real truth behind 9/11, etc.

The producers are Muslims themselves, but they say some interesting things..

If you dont have time or dont want to watch all of them just watch parts: 5, 27 and 42 although I highly recommend you watch most if not all of them..

Start from the bottom up http://www.facebook.com/thearrivalsseries/videos

You're right, I think "this shit is too long" Smiling

But, my thoughts. 
Video #5, the architecture and energy. All is energy. And one of esoteric axioms says, that certain shapes have inherent energetic properties. It is a science we don't yet have, but which in future might determine the look of our cities as centers of culture, knowledge, spirituality and so on. Not the residential and productive sprawl we have now. We know only small pieces of information, for example the shape of pyramid draws energy from astral levels and the shape of tetrahedron (three-sided pyramid) draws energy from mental levels. 

I don't believe there is any evil elite or Antichrist as the videos imply, the suspicious architecture seems to be done by thoughtful and inspired people. For example, I used to script programs that generated ornamental pictures of lines according to mathemathical sequences and they always gave a certain output, sort of an universal sacred geometry. The architects may be simply inspired by mathemathic principles and religious architecture of Egypt, Mayans, India and so on. Maybe they watch such conspiratory videos and build things for the lulz Smiling

Yes, there are subtle energy leylines and centers (chakras) of Earth. But many of today's monuments like Stonehenge don't stand on them anymore, because they shift slowly by time. And the claims of opening a door to different dimensions... that's just far-fetched. Dimension as we know it is a property of material particles, not a place, we can not "enter" it. We must either convert the matter of our bodies, or more appropriately, we simply use the subtle body we already have, like astral body for the astral dimension.

As for video #27, I'm not sure at all. I can't make a sense of it, too many weird things. We know that WTC buildings were built airplaneproof. They were almost untouched by fire. Yet they crumbled like dust or almost imploded and the untouched WTC 7 building with them. And I'm still not sure what the hell happened with a corner of Pentagon, if there was any Boeing 747 full of passengers and hectoliters of extremely flammable fuel. Some people say it was a military drone, which makes it all even weirder. So I prefer to take it simply. Whoever did it, wanted to show American economic dominance. It wasn't a religious act, they didn't blow up any church. The target of WTC was picked by people who understand economy, see that Americans are the haves and many other people, for example Muslims are the have nots. Injustice is the main cause of terrorism and America should see it coming. Hell, they saw it coming, there were military exercises and emergency plans to prevent such an attack. I don't know what exactly happened or who did it (some international group, apparently), but the underlying cause of economic injustice is clear. And yes, George Bush jr. is a war criminal and should be locked up till he gets all striped from the sunlight through bars.

When it comes to video #42, I wouldn't worry. To me it seems like a heap of hooey. If there really are people behind the scenes who think that ancient gods or bloodlines and genetics mean anything, then they're hopelessly deluded and anachronistic. They must be like my president, (who is probably afflicted with narcissism personality disorder) who mistook people's call for freedom as lobbyism, while actual lobbyism scandals are showing up. His worldview is completely upside down, irrational, without touch with people's everyday reality. We today see some global events that have no analogy in our history. Which means people rigid in their ways and thinking have no idea what's happening and no control over the events. Never before was the world so interconnected, educated, active and developing. 

 

My information is rather different. Much less... bombastic. But to understand it, you'd have to read up on some basic concepts from AWT. One thing is clear, we are undergoing a global transformation that will decide about our future. There may be the esoteric side of things, like all the energies, dimensions and subtle bodies undergoing certain changes or even conflicts, I wouldn't deny that. But there is also the objective side, which is the side of economy, finances, politics, social organization and awakening of people's collective will. 

That Facebook page is a typical "astral", emotional presentation, lots of appeal on feelings but few hard facts or things we could do anything about. I think I can avoid such sources without missing anything important. I'll link you towards my sources. They're in text and you can read them much faster than I can view these videos with lots of cinematic imagery and little text in between. I was convinced of Mr Creme's validity of information thanks to seeing it confirmed in practice. I'm also fond of Creme because he does not forget the facts of politics, ecology, economy and so on. So you can start with a short sum of AWT, continue with FAQ and then maybe pick some of the books in PDF. I think many of your questions will be answered or you will be given a good alternative to your sources.

If you want some credentials, here's the former diplomat Wayne Peterson, who is one of few people in the public who openly admit they met work with the Hierarchy personally. He wrote a book with which I am very familiar. Aside from a diplomatic career he was a director of the Fulbright Scholarship program and participated on conferences with some very famous and powerful people. As a member of Peace Corps in Brazil he also founded an institution in Brazil that helped millions of poor people. He's one of my heroes and hopefully I will be able to meet him this year if he makes a detour into my country from his program in UK. (what he says about Maitreya, about his "selective invisibility", that's exactly what our people also observed from ocassional encounters, I bet he's having fun)

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Interesting.What are your

Interesting.

What are your thoughts on part 27 (the interview with the priest)

 

"Russian biophysicist and molecular biologist Pjotr Garjajev and his colleagues have been carrying out cutting-edge research the more esoteric nature of DNA. They simply did not believe that 90% of our DNA is ‘Junk DNA’. From the German book Vernetzte Intelligenz by Grazyna Fosar and Franz Bludorf (summarised and translated by Baerbel):

The latest research explains phenomena such as clairvoyance, intuition, spontaneous and remote acts of healing, self healing, affirmation techniques, unusual light-auras around people (namely spiritual masters), mind's influence on weather-patterns and much more. The Russian scientists also found out that our DNA can cause disturbing patterns in the vacuum, thus producing magnetized wormholes! Wormholes are the microscopic equivalents of the so-called Einstein-Rosen bridges in the vicinity of black holes (left by burned-out stars). These are tunnel connections between entirely different areas in the universe through which information can be transmitted outside of space and time. The DNA attracts these bits of information and passes them on to our consciousness.

What we are seeing here is ‘Hyper-communication’, where information is passed inter dimensionally. It is as though the DNA acts as a ‘Stargate’ between this dimension and others. In the book there are several stories of how this information is downloaded via DNA."

?

Is it possible that the junk DNA mainstream scientists say we have is not junk at all? But rather it has dormant powers like astral projection and levitation among others not mentioned here?

 

 


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truth

truth wrote:

Interesting.

What are your thoughts on part 27 (the interview with the priest)

 

"Russian biophysicist and molecular biologist Pjotr Garjajev and his colleagues have been carrying out cutting-edge research the more esoteric nature of DNA. They simply did not believe that 90% of our DNA is ‘Junk DNA’. From the German book Vernetzte Intelligenz by Grazyna Fosar and Franz Bludorf (summarised and translated by Baerbel):

The latest research explains phenomena such as clairvoyance, intuition, spontaneous and remote acts of healing, self healing, affirmation techniques, unusual light-auras around people (namely spiritual masters), mind's influence on weather-patterns and much more. The Russian scientists also found out that our DNA can cause disturbing patterns in the vacuum, thus producing magnetized wormholes! Wormholes are the microscopic equivalents of the so-called Einstein-Rosen bridges in the vicinity of black holes (left by burned-out stars). These are tunnel connections between entirely different areas in the universe through which information can be transmitted outside of space and time. The DNA attracts these bits of information and passes them on to our consciousness.

What we are seeing here is ‘Hyper-communication’, where information is passed inter dimensionally. It is as though the DNA acts as a ‘Stargate’ between this dimension and others. In the book there are several stories of how this information is downloaded via DNA."

?

Is it possible that the junk DNA mainstream scientists say we have is not junk at all? But rather it has dormant powers like astral projection and levitation among others not mentioned here?

 

 

 

LMAO!!!! 

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truth

truth wrote:

Interesting.

What are your thoughts on part 27 (the interview with the priest)

Which part, this one with Satanism? Satan is a made up character. People may get high on the ritual, but it doesn't prove he exists.

 

truth wrote:
 Is it possible that the junk DNA mainstream scientists say we have is not junk at all? But rather it has dormant powers like astral projection and levitation among others not mentioned here? 
I don't think this is possible. Firstly, the non-coding DNA is not that much of a mystery. Some parts of it are simply remains of ancient retroviruses. Some parts certainly seem to play a role in diseases, expression of other genes and so on, although it isn't clear how.

Secondly, there is no physical mechanism or link between sequence of proteins in DNA and such feats of physics like levitation or astral projection. DNA sequence isn't a magical chant to cast a spell. It's important to realize that according to the subtle worlds/subtle bodies model we are on the bottom, we live in the world of effects, not causes. It's unlikely that DNA would do anything by itself. 

However, we must also keep in mind that everything material has at least its etheric counterpart. Which can be detached. This is why I'd refuse the claims that DNA does something supernatural, but I get curious about claims like phantom DNA. DNA placed in a weak coherent laser beam and then removed leaves behind a subtle field (or the etheric counterpart?) that modulates the beam. 

I think this is a step in the right direction, to search for the subtle matter not in outer space and vacuum chambers, but in living beings and cells, where it is most concentrated, organized and charged.

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Luminon wrote:truth

Luminon wrote:

truth wrote:

Interesting.

What are your thoughts on part 27 (the interview with the priest)

Which part, this one with Satanism? Satan is a made up character. People may get high on the ritual, but it doesn't prove he exists.

 

Yep, "Satan" came from a verb, to a noun, to a proper noun. It is silly. People should take responsibility for their own mistakes.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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comp doesnt work and phone

comp doesnt work and phone for some reason cant scroll all the way down on large pages, i can see the top portion of pages but cant see all the way down ill reply as soon as i can Smiling


truth
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comp doesnt work and phone

comp doesnt work and phone for some reason cant scroll all the way down on large pages, i can see the top portion of pages but cant see all the way down ill reply as soon as i can Smiling


truth
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ah dam i may have gone a bit

ah dam i may have gone a bit far with the dna, i sorta believed it because it said their scientists.

Ihave alot of questions but right now i want to ask one of the main questions i have. To me personally, what happens after death if anything is one of the most important questions a human can ask and know the answer to.

how can i know that reincarnation is true? whats the evidence,


Luminon
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truth wrote:Ihave alot of

truth wrote:

Ihave alot of questions but right now i want to ask one of the main questions i have. To me personally, what happens after death if anything is one of the most important questions a human can ask and know the answer to.

how can i know that reincarnation is true? whats the evidence,

You have to use your own judgement on that. There is no objective evidence yet, that is, the kind of evidence that by definition every rational person on this planet must follow if he wants to keep being called rational. 

However, there are many lesser kinds of evidence and in many cases it is enough for individuals to be convinced, if they are at right place and right time. I am highly confident about the afterlife/reincarnation principles, but I've been in the esoteric community for most of my life and I've seen things firsthand that most of other people never see in a lifetime. That and collective effort other people who proved themselves over the years. Not only it is a collective effort, it's a huge puzzle consisting of personal observations, judging trustworthy reports, studying and comparing literature and checking with science and logical principles if we're not going against them. (much New Age bullshit can be ruled out simply because it doesn't respect logistics, subsidiarity, hierarchic arrangement, economic way of doing things and so on, it's a spam filter against Nigerian princes and benevolent spiritual beings from Andromeda galaxy)

This is not a hobby for people who don't like to read. You have to enjoy reading. I can point you towards the occult manual or a scientific research of reincarnation, but maybe the most convincing and enjoyable read is Robert Allan Monroe. You can buy his books for a really affordable price (trust me) on the link that I sent you via personal message. I am familiar with these books because my folks translated and published them.

Monroe did not have anything to do with occult stuff, he was an audio engineer and a businessman. But when his talent awakened, he started exploring the hidden worlds beyond dense-material level. If you compare his findings with esotericism, he really saw and been in what we esotericists just read about or feel indirectly. But he was not an esotericist and had no freakin' idea what he was seeing, so he tried to describe everything as closely as he could. So some passages might be a little complex, but you're a native English speaksman, so there's one less trouble for you.

 

Alternatively, just do some activity on esoteric basis. The best is to visit (or organize) a Transmission Meditation session. Some people do this meditation because they like to feel the energies, it's an interesting experience for them. Or you can try some aura viewing or some energetic practices like psi-sphere or psi-ball, there's a plenty of instructions on the web. These experiences do not directly prove reincarnation or afterlife. But they will show you (if done correctly) that there is this subtle and unseen part of reality that esotericism describes and indirectly, if esotericism is right about this, it might be also right about reincarnation. I believe a direct experience, even if only personal and not objective, is important for a true open-mindedness, that is, taking these things as a serious possibility. 

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.