Hypatia's bloody murder

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Hypatia's bloody murder

In the 4th century A.D. there lived in Alexandria a woman named Hypatia. She was the head of the Platonist school

where she taught mathematics, astronomy, and philosophy.  She was also said to be a woman of beauty, grace, athleticism,

and above all intelligence. In one of her lectures she is quoted as saying "Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths,

and miracles as poetic fancies.  To teach superstitions as truths is a most terrible thing.  The child-mind accepts and 

believes them, and only after great pain and perhaps tragedy can he be in after-years relieved of them.  In fact, men will

fight for a superstition quite as quickly as for a living truth-often more so, since a superstition is so intangible you cannot get 

at it to refute it, but truth is a point of view, and so is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of

punishment in another world is just as base as to use force."  This infuriated Cyril the bishop of Alexandria and the local christians.

In March of 415 A.D., when Hypatia was 60 yrs old, she left the lecture hall one night to enter a carriage and go home.  She was 

viciously attacke by the Nitrian monks leading a fanatical, hatefilled Christian mob.  After first stripping her naked, she was 

barbarously murdered, then dragged through the streets, her flesh cut from her bones and finally burned piecemeal.  Her crime?  

She told the truth about the Christians' unreasoned and superstitious lies, she promoted learning and culture, and thereby undermined

the power of the tyrannical Jewish-christian power structure. Considering the religious and political climate of the time, she was of course

an incredibly brave woman.  Compared to her I feel like a passive coward. Sure I speak my atheist mind proudly, but it's not enough.  If

you have any similar stories or recommended literature I'd be interested in hearing them.

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


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Hi Tony

 

 

thanks for posting this - Hypatia is a favourite of mine. Where did you find that quote? It's excellent. 

My contribution to your thread is not an atheist or an agnostic deist as Hypatia may have been but a theist, William Tyndale, the scholar who first translated the Bible into English using Greek and Hebrew sources.

For the terrible crime of making christian doctrine visible to the masses he was impaled then burned at the stake for heresy in 1536. 

Lest we forget. 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Hey Extreme

I'm pretty sure that the last part of that quote starting "To rule" was separate from the rest.  I combined her

facts and the story from at least 2 dif sources and printed them some time ago just for my personal collection.  You may be

surprised at one of the sources.  Have you ever heard of Matt Hale? He was all over national tv. If not, he was a leader of the World church of

the creator- a white supremist organization. Let me clearly state that I have NEVER been affiliated with such an

organization. I still live in the house i grew up in which is 6 houses away from Hale's, who is now in prison.  He came

to my house one day seeking petition to be allowed his Bar license. He gave me a book called the White man's bible, which is

one of the sources. I read some of it for entertainment and research purposes.  I clarified it's integrity of Hypatia's account

the best i could online- I don't remember which sites.  Anyway, I am working on a short essay about growing up with Hale

and how  sociopaths come to be followed.

I'll post any parts i think would be interesting to the forum.  And thanks- I'll check out Tyndale.

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


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tonyjeffers wrote:Fables

tonyjeffers wrote:

Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths,

and miracles as poetic fancies.  To teach superstitions as truths is a most terrible thing.  The child-mind accepts and 

believes them, and only after great pain and perhaps tragedy can he be in after-years relieved of them.  In fact, men will

fight for a superstition quite as quickly as for a living truth-often more so, since a superstition is so intangible you cannot get 

at it to refute it, but truth is a point of view, and so is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of

punishment in another world is just as base as to use force.

Did someone really say that 1600 years ago?  You see, when I read something like this, I don't think of the past, but of the future--a future I likely won't even live to see.

Over a millennium and a half later, and we're still trying to accomplish this...

 


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blacklight915 wrote:Did

blacklight915 wrote:

Did someone really say that 1600 years ago?  You see, when I read something like this, I don't think of the past, but of the future--a future I likely won't even live to see.

Over a millennium and a half later, and we're still trying to accomplish this...

It seems idealised, but so very true.  At any rate, it is a good phrase regardless of origin.  And thanks to AE for bringing up that little tidbit of Christian history. 

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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sadly blacklight

Sadly, I've not been able to overcome my pessimist nature.  Even if everyone on the planet were presented with these words, I don't think even your great great grandchildren will live to see the future you speak of.  It's the human tragedy.

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


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Not that I ever want a kid,

Not that I ever want a kid, but if I wanted one, Hypatia I would name it, good stuff, thanks for the post and damn, another poem for me to write.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Agora

My post of Hypatia is just a summary of a work I did on her some years back. If you are interested there

are many sites on her life and works. A few are way too short and leave out the harsh facts and are biased. Unfortunately most of her

original work was destroyed.  There is also a movie about her called "Agora" with Rachel Weisz released a few years ago (you tube has

a trailer). Critics acclaim the movie is historically inaccurate but most movies are. It didn't get a big theatrical release because of 

christian bias, but became a  hit overseas. I intend on seeing it regardless. Also there are at least 2 popular older books on her,

but I don't remember their names. You can find them online. Anyway, she's worth a look. She definitely earned it.

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


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tonyjeffers wrote:In the 4th

tonyjeffers wrote:

In the 4th century A.D. there lived in Alexandria a woman named Hypatia. She was the head of the Platonist school

where she taught mathematics, astronomy, and philosophy.  She was also said to be a woman of beauty, grace, athleticism,

and above all intelligence. In one of her lectures she is quoted as saying "Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths,

and miracles as poetic fancies.  To teach superstitions as truths is a most terrible thing.  The child-mind accepts and 

believes them, and only after great pain and perhaps tragedy can he be in after-years relieved of them.  In fact, men will

fight for a superstition quite as quickly as for a living truth-often more so, since a superstition is so intangible you cannot get 

at it to refute it, but truth is a point of view, and so is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of

punishment in another world is just as base as to use force."  This infuriated Cyril the bishop of Alexandria and the local christians.

In March of 415 A.D., when Hypatia was 60 yrs old, she left the lecture hall one night to enter a carriage and go home.  She was 

viciously attacke by the Nitrian monks leading a fanatical, hatefilled Christian mob.  After first stripping her naked, she was 

barbarously murdered, then dragged through the streets, her flesh cut from her bones and finally burned piecemeal.  Her crime?  

She told the truth about the Christians' unreasoned and superstitious lies, she promoted learning and culture, and thereby undermined

the power of the tyrannical Jewish-christian power structure. Considering the religious and political climate of the time, she was of course

an incredibly brave woman.  Compared to her I feel like a passive coward. Sure I speak my atheist mind proudly, but it's not enough.  If

you have any similar stories or recommended literature I'd be interested in hearing them.

Thanks to you I wrote the following poem about her.

Hypatia, By Brian37

Hypatia, By Brian37

What would such
An advanced woman
Think of Virgina's
State Senate if alive today

What would this
Alexandrian mind
Think of men
Using religious law

To force her
To get an ultra sound
What would she think
Of our right wing today

Cryril meme
Haunts reality
Lynus's blanket
More important

More important
That the truth
Such a brilliant woman
Spoke long ago

"Fables should be
Taught as fables
Myths
As myths

"In fact
Men will
Fight for
A superstition"

And for her wisdom
She was murdered
And still today
Women suffer

Hypatia would not
Walk behind a man
Would want to drive
And also vote

She'd burn a Burka
She'd tell the State Senate
Of Virgina
Stay off my body

Hypatia
Lead them now
Let your voice
Give them power

You may have fallen
So long ago
But your words
Can reach every corner

To the women
Of the world
Rise up and take your place
In our modern world

Alexandria
Did not burn
It is still alive
In her words

Rise up women
Demand they stop
For the world's men
Owe women our birth

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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thanks Brian

Wow, that's excellent Brian. I'll edit that into my work on her.  Of course you'll be quoted as Brian37.  I'm amazed how few people

have even heard of her.  I don't remember learning anything about her in school, but she should be discussed at great length in

in every school, at the very least her scholarly contributions and her inspiration to the world, especially to woman as rightfully

suggested in your poem.  I also believe she invented a few things which I need to research and add to my work. If you happen to

ever come across any tidbits about her let me know. You know how christians have those religious sayings framed picture style on their

walls. Well I'm gonna have one that is disguised as religious to lure them in and have that quote on it. lol  Thanks for the poem-very nice!

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


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tonyjeffers wrote:Wow,

tonyjeffers wrote:

Wow, that's excellent Brian. I'll edit that into my work on her.  Of course you'll be quoted as Brian37.  I'm amazed how few people

have even heard of her.  I don't remember learning anything about her in school, but she should be discussed at great length in

in every school, at the very least her scholarly contributions and her inspiration to the world, especially to woman as rightfully

suggested in your poem.  I also believe she invented a few things which I need to research and add to my work. If you happen to

ever come across any tidbits about her let me know. You know how christians have those religious sayings framed picture style on their

walls. Well I'm gonna have one that is disguised as religious to lure them in and have that quote on it. lol  Thanks for the poem-very nice!

Well thank you in all seriousness, that makes me feel really good. BUT when you credit me put Brian37 member of Rational Responders and Infidel Guy because that is where I posted them. It will help separate me from any other Brian37 that might be on the internet.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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tonyjeffers wrote:My post of

tonyjeffers wrote:

My post of Hypatia is just a summary of a work I did on her some years back. If you are interested there

are many sites on her life and works. A few are way too short and leave out the harsh facts and are biased. Unfortunately most of her

original work was destroyed.  There is also a movie about her called "Agora" with Rachel Weisz released a few years ago (you tube has

a trailer). Critics acclaim the movie is historically inaccurate but most movies are. It didn't get a big theatrical release because of 

christian bias, but became a  hit overseas. I intend on seeing it regardless. Also there are at least 2 popular older books on her,

but I don't remember their names. You can find them online. Anyway, she's worth a look. She definitely earned it.

 

 

                    Have you ever seen these before I hope it is of some help.

 

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN4v_5E7xu4 

 

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37L3mbAjw-s&feature=related

 

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1FFDDHmwTs

 

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuzcO4mWoco

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


Jeffrick
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tonyjeffers wrote:My post of

tonyjeffers wrote:

My post of Hypatia is just a summary of a work I did on her some years back. If you are interested there

are many sites on her life and works. A few are way too short and leave out the harsh facts and are biased. Unfortunately most of her

original work was destroyed.  There is also a movie about her called "Agora" with Rachel Weisz released a few years ago (you tube has

a trailer). Critics acclaim the movie is historically inaccurate but most movies are. It didn't get a big theatrical release because of 

christian bias, but became a  hit overseas. I intend on seeing it regardless. Also there are at least 2 popular older books on her,

but I don't remember their names. You can find them online. Anyway, she's worth a look. She definitely earned it.

 

 

                    Have you ever seen these before I hope it is of some help.

 

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN4v_5E7xu4 

 

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37L3mbAjw-s&feature=related

 

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1FFDDHmwTs

 

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVQs4B2jAWO

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


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jeffrick

Thanks Jeffrick,  

I'll check them out, but before I go thru all those which will take some time, do you know about any of her inventions

just off the top of your head? It kinda ties in to where I'm at on the subject. 

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


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update

I watched the movie "Agora" about Hypatia last night. Many of the specific events are fictional but it takes nothing away

from the film. It is very well made and is a quality must see. It isn't just about Hypatia's teachings, but a very good account

of religious bigotry and how christianity put a halt to the progress of free thinking and knowledge. I easily found it at the local video

store. I highly recommend you see it.

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


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Brian37 wrote:Not that I

Brian37 wrote:

Not that I ever want a kid, but if I wanted one, Hypatia I would name it, good stuff, thanks for the post and damn, another poem for me to write.

 

Our newcomer  syw1759 from Hawaii said his 9 yr old daughter is named Hypatia, so I figured that called for a BUMP. -not that it really requires an excuse. 

And while I'm at it, if you've never heard Israel Kamakawiwo, the Hawaiian gentle giant,  listen to this tune.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9b3_1CcXtY

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


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Marquis de Sade deserves an

Marquis de Sade deserves an honorable mention here, although he was nothing like hypatia. A libertine who detested the phony (and poorly practiced) moral code of the Old and New Testaments, this spoiled, bratty noble engaged in virtually every sort of debauchery and verbal blasphemy conceivable, as well as... possible pedophilia towards the end of his life.

de Sade abused nearly every girl and prostitute he consorted with, he behaved only on threat of losing home and creature comforts and even then, he simply became discreet about his decadence and kink. There wasn't a religious line he wouldn't cross, either. If it meant insulting the basic, politically correct "decency" moral codes of the time, he wouldn't hesitate to stomp on it. It was well known he was "corrupted" at age six by nearly all of his monastic uncle's female friends. Whether this meant 'precocious, hands-on sex ed' or not is up for debate, but most historical accounts suggested "fuck yeah!"

someone named "Douglas B. Lynott wrote:
While a more unseemly setting could scarcely be conceived for the upbringing of an impressionable young child, Abbé de Sade was hardly a renegade clergyman. Indeed, for centuries, throughout France and other European countries, the men and women of the cloth availed themselves to the pleasures of the flesh to no less extent, and probably more so, than the lay worshippers to whom they were responsible for providing moral guidance. It was not unheard of for orgies to be held within the walls of convents and abbéys, wherein priest, nuns, prostitutes and nobles commingled to partake of the most scandalous and debauched activities.

As a paraphile, a particularly effective egomaniac and 'precocious' sexfiend, de Sade served to me as something of a "forbidden role model" as me being a.... "privileged" person who opposes all social obligations and disgusting, self-sacrificing moral codes that achieve next to nothing.

As a kid, Sade got what Sade wanted. (borrowing from Reversal of Fortune, for a second Eye-wink)

Yet, despite being something of a 'war hero' and a pioneering humanistic/sexual philosopher, Sade came within inches of execution via Guillotine at the hands of morally panicked French Revolutionaries. He conned his way out of punishment, one last time before death.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Fourth Century End Times

 

http://www.scrollpublishing.com/store/Theodosian-Code.html

IT IS Our will that all the peoples who are ruled by the administration of Our Clemency shall practice that religion which the divine Peter the Apostle transmitted to the Romans, as the religion which he introduced makes clear even unto this day. It is evident that this is the religion that is followed by the Pontiff Damasus and by Peter, Bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic sanctity; that is, according to the apostolic discipline and the evangelic doctrine, we shall believe in the single Deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, under the concept of equal majesty and of the Holy Trinity.

We command that those persons who follow this rule shall embrace the name of Catholic Christians.

The rest, however, whom We adjudge demented and insane, shall sustain the infamy of heretical dogmas, their meeting places shall not receive the name of churches, and they shall be smitten first by divine vengeance and secondly by the retribution of Our own initiative, which We shall assume in accordance with the divine judgment (28 February 380).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_persecution_of_paganism_under_Theodosius_I

 

 


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He had his merits

Kapkao wrote:

Marquis de Sade deserves an honorable mention here

 

From http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/marquis_de_sade.html

 

In order to know virtue, we must first acquaint ourselves with vice.

Religions are the cradles of despotism.

The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind. 

To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.

 

I found that 'The 120 Days of Sodom' became a bit repetitious though.

 

 


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Quills made a charming if

Quills made a charming if somewhat 'exaggerated' case for a (vaguely) positive light of what he did during his 74 year life span. Most of his writings (however much they likely resembled 70s smut flicks) were burned after his death by his son. "Sins of the father" and all that, in nobility.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Flicks

Kapkao wrote:

Quills

I'll have to look out for that.

Saw Marat/Sade many years ago with the wonderful Patrick Magee.