Consciousness-based healthcare?

Pyrismaragdos
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Consciousness-based healthcare?

Hi again!

Of late, there's been a flood of pseudoscience promoting references (links to videos, articles, sites etc.) on some sites I visit (for other reasons). Among them was a video in which a person called Gregg Braden talks about the "science of miracles" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfTjlfLGBv0). Trying to find a wikipedia article on this guy, I ended up reading the one on "Consciousness-based healthcare" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness-based_healthcare). To my astonishment, as I was used to reading balanced and objective articles on Wikipedia, this one sounded like it was almost an advertisement for CBHC! I found that it was written by a guy I remember finding somewhere at some other time supporting fringe theories. Also, the article had hardly been edited by anyone else (with a couple of minor exceptions). I felt I had to alert someone about it, so, for my first time ever on Wiki, I started the article's (non-existent) "talk" page, requesting that the entry be reviewed.

I then googled CBHC, but all I found was favorable comments and reviews. Not a word critiquing it! I read and reread lots of info about CHBC and, unless I have suddenly taken leave of my senses, I kept coming up with the conclusion that it could but be unscientific, as it involves consciousness transferences, connections with indeterminable forces etc., in order to successfully - as claimed - effect miraculous, instantaneous cures of medically untreatable conditions, such as terminal cancers, as well as rapid restorations of disfigurements, etc.!

I felt so alone all through the process, so I thought maybe some of you people can say something on the matter and perhaps help reassure me that I'm not overreacting (not to say losing it...)

I'd appreciate any comments.

Spare the rod and spoil the god!


Luminon
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I have never heard of this

I have never heard of this before, but it sounds pretty much like a standard work with energy with which I am familiar. 

Explaining this is tricky though, without postulating anything new. I think of it in terms of subtle bodies and subtle worlds and though there is some evidence for these things, it's probably not enough you.

I always supposed that the changes are rather slow, that there must be some inertia in transferring changes from one subtle body to another and finally on the biologic body. But here comes Gregg Braden, introducing a practice on one Japanese clinic, where they just make a big fucking tumor disappear, in 3 minutes or so. They call it "quantum healing", although obviously nobody there ever studied quantum theory. Please, if you have any experience with ultrasound imaging, watch the screens if you see any signs of tampering. They freeze the original image of tumor and next to it there's the progress of its disappearance. Look closely if there's anything suspicious.

 http://www.youtube.com/v/fmMNlmn1DPc

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Pyrismaragdos
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I think this is ridiculous.

I think this is ridiculous. They're trying to convince us that a whole tumor, consisting of (what is it?) hundreds of thousands or millions of cells, disappeared in a matter of 2+ minutes?! Even so, it would be more likely that the tumor should shrink visibly before vanishing into thin (or thick) bladder liquid. Instead, parts of it seemed to just disappear without leaving any traces. More perplexingly, during the initial stage of the process, the top part of the tumor seemed to go off and then come on several times before completely fading. What the heck? A cell is made up of various distinc parts, nuclei, organelles etc. Did all these turn into nothing and then re-materialized, back and forth, several times? And all that thanks to a "field" of energy and some stupid chanting coming from the doctors? I'm sorry, I can't be so dumb as to believe all that really happened because an image on a monitor tried to convince us so. We might as well be watching a video carefully manufactured by means of an image/video processor and just played back on a video player.

We're also told that this is happening all the time in that part of the world (East Asia, I guess). So, is that part of the world really so cancer free, since this appears to be at least one of the preferred treatments for cancer? I don't think the data support that claim. Really, what are the actual numbers of cancer deaths there? And if they're so low, why don't cancer patients from the west travel in swarms to those countries to save themselves? Is this one more of the life-saving secrets that wicked west governments and medical establishments carefully keep from the layman in order to fatten their own pockets? I can hardly believe it.

And why is it always people we don't know and haven't met that are so lucky as to benefit from such treatments? Why is it never our own sick people that get saved? My own father and mother had followed such "miraculous", alternative treatments, relatives of mine and some other people I knew also did, but none of them was cured nor was their condition bettered in the least. It's always others, it's always somewhere else, it's always cases that can't be verified!

And what about the "field" which "is there"? What field is there? I looked it up the best I could, but I could see no logical connection of "that field" with what this man said. Things out of context, unscrupulously manipulated so that we're conned into believing what they want us to.

I think this whole affair is for the naive.

Spare the rod and spoil the god!


Luminon
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Pyrismaragdos wrote:I think

Pyrismaragdos wrote:

I think this is ridiculous. They're trying to convince us that a whole tumor, consisting of (what is it?) hundreds of thousands or millions of cells, disappeared in a matter of 2+ minutes?! Even so, it would be more likely that the tumor should shrink visibly before vanishing into thin (or thick) bladder liquid. Instead, parts of it seemed to just disappear without leaving any traces. More perplexingly, during the initial stage of the process, the top part of the tumor seemed to go off and then come on several times before completely fading. What the heck? A cell is made up of various distinc parts, nuclei, organelles etc. Did all these turn into nothing and then re-materialized, back and forth, several times? And all that thanks to a "field" of energy and some stupid chanting coming from the doctors? I'm sorry, I can't be so dumb as to believe all that really happened because an image on a monitor tried to convince us so. We might as well be watching a video carefully manufactured by means of an image/video processor and just played back on a video player.

We're also told that this is happening all the time in that part of the world (East Asia, I guess). So, is that part of the world really so cancer free, since this appears to be at least one of the preferred treatments for cancer? I don't think the data support that claim. Really, what are the actual numbers of cancer deaths there? And if they're so low, why don't cancer patients from the west travel in swarms to those countries to save themselves? Is this one more of the life-saving secrets that wicked west governments and medical establishments carefully keep from the layman in order to fatten their own pockets? I can hardly believe it.

Think what you want, I don't know what to think about the actual demonstration. Only generally, it seems too good to be true, even if I stretch my paranormal experiences to the limits. 

Pyrismaragdos wrote:
And why is it always people we don't know and haven't met that are so lucky as to benefit from such treatments? Why is it never our own sick people that get saved? My own father and mother had followed such "miraculous", alternative treatments, relatives of mine and some other people I knew also did, but none of them was cured nor was their condition bettered in the least. It's always others, it's always somewhere else, it's always cases that can't be verified!
Well, I haven't really heard about anybody cured like that. But there's a plenty of reasons why such a treatment wouldn't be widely available. Maybe only a few people in the world have so strong chi energy or whatever. Yeah, it can't be verified, that's one of things you have to learn to live with, when living beyond evidence-based medicine. When you have limited possibilities, you have to make a decision. Eiter you try to help people, or you try to make tests. One of these choices gives you money to get by, the other doesn't. One of these choices helps people, the other doesn't. Eventually you give up on documenting your every step with evidence, which nobody will bother to replicate anyway and be grateful for the results. That's how it works around here, except there are no masses following faith healers or so many scam practices like in America. I live in a more tame country, where you actually can use alternative medicine without ruining your health and your savings, if you're careful. The thing to really watch out are Ponzi schemes, hucksters, fake powerplant employees and distrainer mafia.

 

Pyrismaragdos wrote:
 And what about the "field" which "is there"? What field is there? I looked it up the best I could, but I could see no logical connection of "that field" with what this man said. Things out of context, unscrupulously manipulated so that we're conned into believing what they want us to.

I think this whole affair is for the naive.

If you mean that field, well, there is some evidence for that, though as I said, probably not enough for you. There is Polycontrast Interference Photography, which allows to capture this field visually. Dr. Harry Oldfield seems to work on this quite thoroughly. Although the pictures are telling for someone who knows the energies, in my opinion what is missing is a series of images that show nothing. No energies, no meridians, no body, or ideally a dead body. That would be a wonderful reference point. But as I wrote, that's something easy to forget about for people who are already convinced.

There is also the Experimental Life-Energy Field Meter, which projects electric field from an electrode. If something is placed nearby, the field gets dampened. The more vitality the object has, the more the field gets dampened, which the device shows inversely as a relative value of vitality of a measured object.

For me it would be very easy to test these devices. I'd only need to take a measurement when I'm doing nothing and another measurement when I concentrate the energy and there should be quite a difference between the two. Some of such photographs already exist. You know how these woo folks always describe energy vibes? I can't see anything, but this is how it feels like. Another example I like is this one, reaction on some kind of cell phone thingy. If you look at these energy fields, bodies and so on, you might notice they look a lot like historical depictions of astral (and etheric) body. Notice the horizontal curved layers.

So I don't doubt that there are such things as energy fields, meridians, chakras and fluid energetic emanations hovering around are there, I'm quite sensitive to them. And my gall bladder meridian (head section) hurts me quite often, with its acupuncture points sticking out like points of pain on the line of pain, and they are located where acupuncture charts say they should be. I can't help it but accept that this is a reality. I don't actually think this is another kind of true field of force, like magnetic or gravitational. I suppose this is what we call dark matter, only concentrated by Earth's gravity into local dark matter biosphere and interacting with living matter. The whole thing might work on principles of differently charged (hence structured) plasma fields, nothing exotic. 

What I doubt is, how great effect this all has. From my experience, the subtle bodies influence our nerve and endocrine system directly, everything else takes time and indirect observation. And there is no direct effect on things like bacteria or viruses in the body. So I doubt one person can instantly heal another, unless there is some serious materialization or dematerialization going on. And that is something on which I suspend my judgement for the foreseeable time, because of zero experience. 
 

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Zaq
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Human beings radiate photons

Human beings radiate photons (E&M waves).  In fact, everything at non-zero temperature will radiate photons, which will extend until they are absorbed.  However, the effect is negligible in comparison to other effects.

 

This is all pseudoscience, and will probably get people killed.

 

If this EM wave stuff is valid, please produce the effect in a room where I can measure your EM wave.  You're literally claiming a kind of wave that scientists have been measuring for quite some time.  if it's too small to be detected by our most sensitive apparati, please explain how it is supposed to produce a significant effect.

 

Also, it sounds like he's setting us up for a self-fulfilling prophecy type effect.  He says that in order to get "enough money," you have to feel like you already have enough money.  But that will make you feel like you already have enough money without having to get you any more money.

Questions for Theists:
http://silverskeptic.blogspot.com/2011/03/consistent-standards.html

I'm a bit of a lurker. Every now and then I will come out of my cave with a flurry of activity. Then the Ph.D. program calls and I must fall back to the shadows.


Teralek
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Luminon wrote:I have never

Luminon wrote:

I have never heard of this before, but it sounds pretty much like a standard work with energy with which I am familiar. 

Explaining this is tricky though, without postulating anything new. I think of it in terms of subtle bodies and subtle worlds and though there is some evidence for these things, it's probably not enough you.

I always supposed that the changes are rather slow, that there must be some inertia in transferring changes from one subtle body to another and finally on the biologic body. But here comes Gregg Braden, introducing a practice on one Japanese clinic, where they just make a big fucking tumor disappear, in 3 minutes or so. They call it "quantum healing", although obviously nobody there ever studied quantum theory. Please, if you have any experience with ultrasound imaging, watch the screens if you see any signs of tampering. They freeze the original image of tumor and next to it there's the progress of its disappearance. Look closely if there's anything suspicious.

 http://www.youtube.com/v/fmMNlmn1DPc

There is a problem with this. You can actually replicate the "experience" thus proving it's validity in a controlled environment. Meaning these "3 chinese guys" can subject themselfs to experiences consistently curing people's cancers. This would be a discovery of the century and they would probably get a Nobel prize. I don't know what they are waiting for!!

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"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies