Murky African shores

CaveTroll1066
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Murky African shores

Right then. Seeing as this is predominantly an north of the equator website I have a serious question for the educated lot on here.

 

What is the genral (or individual) opinion of Southern african politics or is news even disseminated on that side of the pond?

 

Do we look the bumbling fools that some of us here feel the government makes us out to be? And does sub-saharan africa even feature in anybodies dinner table discussions?

 

As usual I am seething with curiosity on this one but I'll help with any confusion someone may have in regard to our lot..

 

Many thanks all

 

CaveTroll1066

Yay though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the bi9ggest mother%$&@#%$ in the valley and I carry a big stick
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Tapey
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Robert Mugabe is a bad

Robert Mugabe is a bad person and apartheid was bad. South Africa has a crime issue. General disinterest and lack of knowledge on anything past that. From my general experiance beyond that I wouldn't expect much. People tend not to care about anything south of the Equator unless they want a holiday. Really I don't blame them, I know as much about the politics of those small insignificant European countries as they know about Southern Africa.

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Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
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Vastet
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Sadly, Africa is ignored by

Sadly, Africa is ignored by the media in North America for the most part, especially in the US. The last time I remember a headline about Africa sticking around for a few days anywhere but CBC was when Zimbabwe crashed.

But then it's hard to sell bullshit wars, that supposedly bring freedom, to people that actually know the middle east isn't the real horror story of Earth. So there's little interest in educating people about Africa.

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blacklight915
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CaveTroll1066 wrote:What is

CaveTroll1066 wrote:

What is the genral (or individual) opinion of Southern african politics or is news even disseminated on that side of the pond?

I would say it probably isn't, I can't think of any major US news sources that talk regularly about South Africa.

 

CaveTroll1066 wrote:

Do we look the bumbling fools that some of us here feel the government makes us out to be? And does sub-saharan africa even feature in anybodies dinner table discussions?

For me, no to both. I just don't really know enough about most of Africa to have much of a discussion about it. In a vague sort of way, I care about people everywhere, but the country I live in (the US) has more than enough problems to keep its citizens occupied...

 

Tapey wrote:

Robert Mugabe is a bad person and apartheid was bad. South Africa has a crime issue.

I'll add that I watched the movie Invictus, which featured Morgan Freeman as Nelson Mandela. If the movie was accurate, he seemed like a great president. I also remember something about people being "forcibly relocated" to make a city look nicer for the world cup. After hearing that, I decided I definitely didn't want to watch the world cup. 

 

CaveTroll1066 wrote:

Yay though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the bi9ggest mother%$&@#%$ in the valley and I carry a big stick

Lol, this quote is awesome.  

 


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Sadly, it is mostly ignored.

Sadly, it is mostly ignored.  I have just a vague political and economical understanding of Africa in general.  Most of the news is made by it's relation to the middle eastern conflict and some of the major news stories make it through.  

 

 

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Tapey
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blacklight915 wrote:Tapey

blacklight915 wrote:

Tapey wrote:

Robert Mugabe is a bad person and apartheid was bad. South Africa has a crime issue.

I'll add that I watched the movie Invictus, which featured Morgan Freeman as Nelson Mandela. If the movie was accurate, he seemed like a great president. I also remember something about people being "forcibly relocated" to make a city look nicer for the world cup. After hearing that, I decided I definitely didn't want to watch the world cup. 

 

If I am honest he makes a better face on a poster than president. Sure South Africa didn't completely crash after Apartheid ended and we didn't have an all out race war which seemed inevitable at some points but day to day stuff he was nothing special as a president. A lot of the issues we are currently dealing with today are only big issues now because his administration and the following ones did nothing to prevent it. But as far as democratic transitions in Africa yeah ours probably was the best of the lot and Mandela had his part to play in that. But yeah hind sight is 20/20, he and the rest of his administration inherited a mess and did a soso job at trying to fix it.

 

As for people being forcefully relocated, it is standard practices for all World cups, you clear up your citys. We forcefully relocate people on a daily basis, people own land and others are squatting on it. Sucks but it happens.

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


CaveTroll1066
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hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I notice a disparity between your guys news and ours... We are starting to get anticipation coverage of the US elections here already.... Overseas news, Particularly US, UK and middle eastern news get quite a lot of airplay.

 

I'll answer the other comments without the quote lot for now (still getting a feel for posting on this site heh heh}

Tapey: Unfortunately South Africa has made itself look like a dung factory in it's continued support of Mugabe in Zim. The only reason for this is that he was a "Struggle Brother" so all of his gross violations of just about every law are overlooked by the Gov. Crime is a massive factor here, private security companies are trusted far more than the police force, not surprising as they have corruption issues and an incredibly high illiteracy rate in the force.  As for holidays well, we do have fantastic game/nature reserves and fantastic natural beauty.

This brings us to apartheid, Yes it was a hideous thing all round I personally am disgusted when I read of some peoples attitudes during that period, however it gets used as an excuse for all sorts of incompetence, corruption etc. Hell some kids (who weren't even alive when apartheid ended) have used it in court to justify murder so yes.

 

 

Vastet: Lol Zim has never stopped crashing, It reels from crisis to crisis like a drunken sailor. You're right though that in comparison the miidle east is a nice day out for all the family compared to africa. Sudan, Rwanda, current flair ups in the congo , nigeria, and look up the LRA (Lords resistance Army) a fantastic example of atrocities and all committed in gods name. Having lived in Israel for a good couple of years I have to say the difference is staggering

 

 

Blacklight915: Invictus didn't do too badly in it's portrayel, haven't watched it in a while so can't remember the exact details but Mandela was a good pres indeed! unfortunately the same can't be said for the rest of the ANC. Mandela spent some of his time in power working against the party.  Part of SA's current problem is the try to wipe out all of the previous hisstory, forgetting that one of our presidents during and after WWII that was instrumental in setting up the UN in particular it hman rights charter. Without that the ANC wouldn't have had much to base there Freedom charter on. That being Jan Smuts (J is pronounced as a Y so Yan effectively)

Wich world cup was that by the way? Never happened for the 95 rugby one and the only thing closer was the 2011 football wrold cup but all that happened was some criminal clearing of parts of Johannesburg. ( Most of that city is unsafe to drive through at night whole gangs take over buildings, nigerian drug dealers and pimps etc etc.

Heh heh glad you liked the quote, I came up with it in a (very) rare burst of inspiration while being harangued by a bible basher quoting scripture at me in the hopes I would 'see the light'. It shut him up rather well Smiling

 

 

Yay though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the bi9ggest mother%$&@#%$ in the valley and I carry a big stick
- Me


Vastet
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True about Zim. We stopped

True about Zim. We stopped hearing much about it after their dollar devalued to an extreme though. It's been years since I read anything about Zim that I didn't specifically look up.

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blacklight915
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Tapey wrote:As for people

Tapey wrote:

As for people being forcefully relocated, it is standard practices for all World cups, you clear up your citys. We forcefully relocate people on a daily basis, people own land and others are squatting on it. Sucks but it happens.

That does suck; I definitely think peoples' property rights should be enforced, but I imagine a lot of those squatters are just trying to find a place to live...

 

CaveTroll1066 wrote:

criminal clearing of parts of Johannesburg. ( Most of that city is unsafe to drive through at night whole gangs take over buildings, nigerian drug dealers and pimps etc etc.

Huh, well, it is justifiable to force criminals out (provided that they commit non-victimless crimes). Do you know why those gangs and drug dealers are so violent? (if they are)

 

Actually, does anyone know why people are violent at all?  I find violence to be quite illogical: it is probably the worst way of getting what you want. Furthermore, it requires the assumption that your wants are superior to other peoples' lives. Which, again, is illogical: almost every person is important to themselves and a few others. It makes little sense to assume that your importance is somehow greater than someone else's without at least asking them first.

 


CaveTroll1066
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blacklight915 wrote:Tapey

blacklight915 wrote:

Tapey wrote:

As for people being forcefully relocated, it is standard practices for all World cups, you clear up your citys. We forcefully relocate people on a daily basis, people own land and others are squatting on it. Sucks but it happens.

That does suck; I definitely think peoples' property rights should be enforced, but I imagine a lot of those squatters are just trying to find a place to live...

 

CaveTroll1066 wrote:

criminal clearing of parts of Johannesburg. ( Most of that city is unsafe to drive through at night whole gangs take over buildings, nigerian drug dealers and pimps etc etc.

Huh, well, it is justifiable to force criminals out (provided that they commit non-victimless crimes). Do you know why those gangs and drug dealers are so violent? (if they are)

 

Actually, does anyone know why people are violent at all?  I find violence to be quite illogical: it is probably the worst way of getting what you want. Furthermore, it requires the assumption that your wants are superior to other peoples' lives. Which, again, is illogical: almost every person is important to themselves and a few others. It makes little sense to assume that your importance is somehow greater than someone else's without at least asking them first.

 

 

Well that's a tough one unfortunately. A great many of the crimes here are accompanied by excessive levels of violence and cruelty. Victims of rape, torture and murder run the gamut of ages from between newborn right through to advanced old age (Children are particular targets of gang rapes here and muti (medicine) killings- although that might be for another thread) The murders usually include beatings, torture etc; with whole families killed in house robberies. Not many of the crimes here are victimless unfortunately.

Violence in my experience seems to be an inherent part of human psychology. Take a look at the biggest selling holloywood movies. They generally have actuion in the forms of fights body counts etc and of course sex. both sell well. Some sports (NFL, Rugby etc) almost have a 2 armies sort of feel when watching them. Then there are the fight sports that garner large audiences, hell I participated in cage fighting for a brief period before I got sick. There's an adrenaline and endorphine thrill  that accompanies things like that, also the sense of power (our crimes have that feel o them) over victims. It's almost a perverted sense of self gratification in a way. I'm not sure if there are any Psychologists out there that agree or think I'm being a blithering idiot but that's how I've experienced it. Hmmmm that doesn't answer the question very well but I am more of an engineer than psych.....

Yay though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the bi9ggest mother%$&@#%$ in the valley and I carry a big stick
- Me