Bringing Jobs Back To America

ex-minister
atheistHigh Level ModeratorSilver Member
ex-minister's picture
Posts: 1704
Joined: 2010-01-29
User is offlineOffline
Bringing Jobs Back To America

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Atheistextremist wrote:
...The University of Alberta library has the World Almanac issues for the pertinent period for 1941, 1944, 1947, 1948, and 1949. The figures listed for total world Jewish population are as follows:

1941 15,748,091 

1944 15,192,089

1945 9,192,089 based upon the firm fixed immutable mystic six million that were COUNTED. Or was that just a self-serving "estimate" too?

Quote:
1947 15,688,259 

1948 15,688,259 

1949 11,266,600

Now you may be wondering what happened to all those Jews in 1948-49. The fact is that no fresh estimates were made between 1938 and 1947.

Population data is not an estimate, it is a head count. It has been a head count since Rome's first census. It has been a head count in the West since the Domsday Book. But when a head count does not agree with mythology make an ESTIMATE that does agree with mythology and arithmetic be damned.

Holohuggers can't even deal with counting when it conflicts with their beliefs.

But lets be fair. Lets see if the basis for the 1949 estimate is sane. Lets see if it makes sense. Produce the basis for the 1949 estimate. You can't? To quote Gomer Pyle, Surprise, Surprise! and Shazam!

Quote:
The figures listed for 1941, 1947, and 1948 are identified by the World Almanac as estimates made in 1938.

Sorry 1938 was a head count not an estimate. Am I now to understand you do not know the difference between estimating and counting?

Quote:
The source for the estimate for 1944 is not given, and the numbers are listed differently than in other years. In 1944, the numbers are given as a part of a list of various world religions rather than standing on their own with a country-by-country breakdown as in the other years.

Again you bullshit deliberately or are too stupid to know you are an idiot or someone is paying you to post this crap.

Is possible you do not realize you are confirming what I said?

How stupid are you? Can it be quantified or only estimated? There is a difference. Look it up.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Atheistextremist wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The guy in the ski mask is frothing and name-calling because he has no physical evidence.

You say Israelis all deserve to die.

Again you are a fucking liar. But then one has to be a fucking liar to be a holocaust promoter or stupid or paid.

Quote:
You must believe Jews concocted the holocaust as part of some strange plan to attain or strengthen their alleged control of the world.

Another LIE. Again you are a fucking liar.

Quote:
You are an avowed holocaust denier who insists none of the evidence of the mass murder of European Jewry can be considered legitimate.

Another lie.

Quote:
None of these observations involves name calling on my part,

As you are demonstrating it involves you telling a constant stream of lies about me. Why must you lie? Cannot you deal with what I have said? Are you only capable of dealing with strawman fallacies? Rhetorical of course. It is unclear you could find your boyfriend's arsehole with both hands.

Quote:
just the application of factual observations based entirely on the things you say you believe. Personally, I don't think either of us is much given to frothing. Generally, we both make our points without hysteria. I do feel, however, that you have a magnetic attraction to fallacious ad hominem as the statement you make above quite clearly attests. 

Your total failure to produce physical evidence of a population decrease over the war years is well established. Defending the indefensible is not going to get you into heaven. Nor is lying, bearing false witness. Continuing to demonstrate the absence of physical evidence of 6 million which I did observe is only going to get you points among fellow holohuggers.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


blacklight915
blacklight915's picture
Posts: 544
Joined: 2011-12-23
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Again you

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Again you are a fucking liar. But then one has to be a fucking liar to be a holocaust promoter or stupid or paid.

So, someone who states that the Holocaust was real and provides evidence to back up his assertion is a "holocaust promoter"?

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

You are an avowed holocaust denier who insists none of the evidence of the mass murder of European Jewry can be considered legitimate.

Another lie.

Oh, well, I'm glad you don't think the Holocaust is a fabrication. Why is it, then, that you argue that the "6 million" is a made up number and that an insignificant number of Jews were killed during World War 2? 

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Who and what is a nizkook and why do you choose to believe it? Since you are such an ignorant little shit I will enlighten you.

For the record Nizkook Zentral is financed by Larry Shiff of Canada, the pissant Jew who phoned death threats to my son. 

Ken McVay who at one time claimed to run the nizkooks phoned a death threat to my parents.

Canadians think they can get away with anything. Are you on Shiff's payroll too? Should I tell me son to expect the phone calls to start again? Should I have the FBI back on the case? Schiff was last questioned by the FBI about his death threats in Hawaii.

One has to be on the payroll to believe animals like those two.

Your personal relationship to his source is irrelevant to the quality of information it provides--even the worst criminal can make factually accurate claims.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Population data is not an estimate, it is a head count. It has been a head count since Rome's first census. It has been a head count in the West since the Domsday Book. But when a head count does not agree with mythology make an ESTIMATE that does agree with mythology and arithmetic be damned.

A head count IS an estimate, some people will be missed and some won't want to be found. Also, not every country in the world takes an accurate census. Knowing these two things, I would be hesitant to rely on world population statistics for precision. This is probably why they're called estimates, rather than exact figures.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

I do feel, however, that you have a magnetic attraction to fallacious ad hominem

The guy in the ski mask is frothing and name-calling because he has no physical evidence.

How stupid are you? Can it be quantified or only estimated?

It is unclear you could find your boyfriend's arsehole with both hands.

I think you just proved him right, Nony.


blacklight915
blacklight915's picture
Posts: 544
Joined: 2011-12-23
User is offlineOffline
This article is somewhat

This article is somewhat biased, but makes some good points:

http://www.historiography-project.org/misc/graf_jewishlosses.html

 

It also provides specific references and explains the methodologies used.

 


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

blacklight915 wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Again you are a fucking liar. But then one has to be a fucking liar to be a holocaust promoter or stupid or paid.

So, someone who states that the Holocaust was real and provides evidence to back up his assertion is a "holocaust promoter"?

When a person claims I said something I did not that makes him a liar.

That is separate from his failure to produce world population data supporting a significant reduction of world population over the war years.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:
You are an avowed holocaust denier who insists none of the evidence of the mass murder of European Jewry can be considered legitimate.
Another lie.

Oh, well, I'm glad you don't think the Holocaust is a fabrication. Why is it, then, that you argue that the "6 million" is a made up number and that an insignificant number of Jews were killed during World War 2?

You ask me a question. Why do you think I argued that except for his lie that I did?

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Who and what is a nizkook and why do you choose to believe it? Since you are such an ignorant little shit I will enlighten you.

For the record Nizkook Zentral is financed by Larry Shiff of Canada, the pissant Jew who phoned death threats to my son. 

Ken McVay who at one time claimed to run the nizkooks phoned a death threat to my parents.

Canadians think they can get away with anything. Are you on Shiff's payroll too? Should I tell me son to expect the phone calls to start again? Should I have the FBI back on the case? Schiff was last questioned by the FBI about his death threats in Hawaii.

One has to be on the payroll to believe animals like those two.

Your personal relationship to his source is irrelevant to the quality of information it provides--even the worst criminal can make factually accurate claims.

This person presents no physical evidence nor does skimask claim he does. This person makes claims. Skimask appeals to the authority of this person establishing the validity of his unevidenced assertions. Therefore the person matters. His criminal activity matters. He is also a self-described welfare cheat. I assume that is also a crime in British Columbia. One reasonably expects an "authority" not be a criminal.

As to the issue of appeal to authority, that is a logical fallacy and of value only in instructing the believing skimask as to the nature of such fallacies.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Population data is not an estimate, it is a head count. It has been a head count since Rome's first census. It has been a head count in the West since the Domsday Book. But when a head count does not agree with mythology make an ESTIMATE that does agree with mythology and arithmetic be damned.

A head count IS an estimate, some people will be missed and some won't want to be found.

In this reality counting is counting not an estimate. One can ESTIMATE the number missed thus increasing the count. That is not what he is claiming. He is claiming that an estimate can reduce an actual count. He is claiming that 15M were counted and "estimating" it was a 4.5M overcount. You claim you counted ten fingers but I will estimate you overcounted by three and thus you have only seven fingers. AND because I estimated it, I am right and you are wrong.

Do not rationalize it. QUOTE the methodology of the people who made the estimate.

Quote:
Also, not every country in the world takes an accurate census. Knowing these two things, I would be hesitant to rely on world population statistics for precision. This is probably why they're called estimates, rather than exact figures.

Fine by me. PRODUCE the evidence for miscounting THAT WAS USED not just any rationalization you can come up with. Including is the rationalization of inaccurate counting. One would have to produce years of accurate and inaccurate data to come up with an error estimate. This is serious stuff. Handwaving by amateurs does not mean the amateur knows what he is doing not matter what he calls it.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Atheistextremist wrote:
I do feel, however, that you have a magnetic attraction to fallacious ad hominem

The guy in the ski mask is frothing and name-calling because he has no physical evidence.

How stupid are you? Can it be quantified or only estimated?

It is unclear you could find your boyfriend's arsehole with both hands.

I think you just proved him right, Nony.

I have still not seen him post physical evidence of a six million reduction in population over the war years.

That is the ONLY thing I have been discussing despite his lies about what I have said.

Do you not insist upon physical evidence for everything? If not, why not?

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

blacklight915 wrote:
This article is somewhat biased, but makes some good points:

http://www.historiography-project.org/misc/graf_jewishlosses.html

It also provides specific references and explains the methodologies used.

He presents no physical evidence of the claim. Simply there is still no physical evidence for the 6 million introduced in 1945.

IF you like his arguments and  for some strange reason are satisfied with arguments only then his arguments say there was no basis for the 6 million number introduced in 1945.

So there is neither evidence nor argument whicih supports the 6 million number at the time it was introduced/cast in concrete.

Either way what is your point? My statement is correct either way. 

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Atheistextremist
atheistSilver Member
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5064
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is offlineOffline
This whacky

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Who and what is a nizkook and why do you choose to believe it? Since you are such an ignorant little shit I will enlighten you.

For the record Nizkook Zentral is financed by Larry Shiff of Canada, the pissant Jew who phoned death threats to my son. 

Ken McVay who at one time claimed to run the nizkooks phoned a death threat to my parents.

Canadians think they can get away with anything. Are you on Shiff's payroll too? Should I tell me son to expect the phone calls to start again? Should I have the FBI back on the case? Schiff was last questioned by the FBI about his death threats in Hawaii.

One has to be on the payroll to believe animals like those two.

 

 

outpouring of strawmen doesn't really warrant a sensible reply, Nony. But it is informative in the context of our long running discussions that you choose to classify the person in question as a pissant 'jew'.  Some details of Nizkor, which is the Hebrew word for 'remembrance' can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizkor_Project . This wiki entry recognises criticism of Nizkor as being a polarising force for holocaust denial thanks to its attempts to directly address denial claims. The site itself is located here http://www.nizkor.org/ .

My interest in Nizkor is strictly limited to the fact that on this anti-holocaust denial website writer Annie Alpert attests that she went to the University of Alberta library and pulled the World Almanacs for the years in question. The point she makes is succinct. That the Almanac's war and early post war years figures of the jewish population of Europe were estimates based on figures from 1938 and that 1949's published figures are based on estimates taken from the research of 1948, that the World Almanac revised its pre-war figure post war - perhaps based on Wannsee Conference estimates - and that it warned all its figures were estimates. 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


Atheistextremist
atheistSilver Member
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5064
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is offlineOffline
Ok Nony.

 

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The guy in the ski mask is frothing and name-calling because he has no physical evidence.

You say Israelis all deserve to die.

Again you are a fucking liar. But then one has to be a fucking liar to be a holocaust promoter or stupid or paid.

Quote:
You must believe Jews concocted the holocaust as part of some strange plan to attain or strengthen their alleged control of the world.

Another LIE. Again you are a fucking liar.

Quote:
You are an avowed holocaust denier who insists none of the evidence of the mass murder of European Jewry can be considered legitimate.

Another lie.

Quote:
None of these observations involves name calling on my part,

As you are demonstrating it involves you telling a constant stream of lies about me. Why must you lie? Cannot you deal with what I have said? Are you only capable of dealing with strawman fallacies? Rhetorical of course. It is unclear you could find your boyfriend's arsehole with both hands.

Quote:
just the application of factual observations based entirely on the things you say you believe. Personally, I don't think either of us is much given to frothing. Generally, we both make our points without hysteria. I do feel, however, that you have a magnetic attraction to fallacious ad hominem as the statement you make above quite clearly attests. 

Your total failure to produce physical evidence of a population decrease over the war years is well established. Defending the indefensible is not going to get you into heaven. Nor is lying, bearing false witness. Continuing to demonstrate the absence of physical evidence of 6 million which I did observe is only going to get you points among fellow holohuggers.

 

 

* I accused you of saying all Israelis deserve to die based on this:

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

 

ALL criminal dictatorships must end. I raise the issue of the Jewish one to show you any and all killing of the oppressors is both morally and legally justified.

You do not appear to like the idea of killing off the jewish/israeli criminals. Lots of children were killed in Dresen and Hiroshima. There is no difference.

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/31143?page=1

 

 

And additionally, on your contention in some other thread that there are no innocent Israelis as they are an occupying force. To me these comments clearly show you think Israeli occupiers can be fairly killed. I'm not sure why you are bothering to refute my assertion given it is based solely on what you say you believe. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion and I am justified in suggesting you believe all Israelis deserve to die. Perhaps 'deserve' is too pointed for you. How about all Israelis can be legally murdered?

 

* Next I suggest you must believe jews fabricated the holocaust.

 

Note the use of the world 'must' in my statement. The point here is pretty obvious. If there is no material evidence for the holocaust whatsoever, naught that would stand in a court of law, then there must be some motivation for millions of jewish folk around the world to believe it, to mourn it, to set up monuments in wretched little polish villages in the middle of nowhere, to have gone and got fake tattoos to try and prove their 'lies'. So what do you think their motivation is, Nony? I suggested you believe they are using the holocaust to leverage some advantage - sure, I suggested this was for world domination which I freely concede you have never stated - but regardless, you must believe they promote the holocaust for a reason. What is that reason?

 

Finally, I make the point you insist none of the evidence of the holocaust is legitimate and you call me a liar and wrap up your argument with this little gem: 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Your total failure to produce physical evidence of a population decrease over the war years is well established. Defending the indefensible is not going to get you into heaven. Nor is lying, bearing false witness. Continuing to demonstrate the absence of physical evidence of 6 million which I did observe is only going to get you points among fellow holohuggers.

 

Thus sparing me from having to labour up-thread to find a quote in which you declare yet again that none of the evidence from the holocaust is legitimate. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


blacklight915
blacklight915's picture
Posts: 544
Joined: 2011-12-23
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:You ask

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

You ask me a question. Why do you think I argued that except for his lie that I did?

I think we can agree that at least some Jews were killed during World War 2, correct?

Now, there seems to be a lack of authoritative data on the worldwide population of Jews until shortly after World War 2. I was able to find some numbers from the early 1900's and the pre-war period, but I wasn't able to find how they came up with them. Given this, why do you insist on having world population data? Are there not more reliable options?

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Do you not insist upon physical evidence for everything?

What do you mean by "physical evidence"? Could you give some examples of what does and doesn't qualify?

 

 


Atheistextremist
atheistSilver Member
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5064
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is offlineOffline
I'm replying here to a post

 

 

made in this thread http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/30998 where Nony and I are arguing about the same thing. Anyone wanting to go back to that thread for more of this debate, there's the link. I'm going to address the stuff Nony and I were arguing about in the Is Anti-Semitism Anti-Zionism thread in this location, too. It's essentially the same argument and it's pointless repeating it in all three places. 

 

 

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:
...

 

a forensic archaeologist using the latest methods found evidence of mass murder at Treblinka including vast numbers of bones and ash pits, this material evidence is supported by eye witness reports of survivors, escapees, locals and former guards, as well as evidence from the Germans themselves including the Hoefle Telegram decoded by the Enigma cryptographers at Bletchley. You can read about this on the Internet.

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Dear dumbshit, vast is not a number. How was their religion established? How was the cause of death established? WHO or WHAT was the cause of death? Have you never was a single episode of any of the CSI shows?

 

 

Hoefletelegram.jpg

 

 

Care to translate? Or does anything in German cause you to cry and hide under your covers? Do not forget to fill in the ...rest missed... or come up with a non-delusional rationale for it not mattering.

Quote:

 

Again, Nony, you refer to your population figures, the only form of evidence that's sanitary enough to be tolerable to you, and then you slide inexorably off into ad hominem. As I've said before, I don't care about the 6 million.

 

Which is why you pretend to a generic concern while so desperately trying to established some miraculous jewish number.

 

Quote:
It could be any number at all.

 

By what you have presented so far that number can be zero. If you do not care why are you so desperate to believe in a non-zero number? The only established massacre is still by the Allies.

 

Quote:
And I never read a romantic detective story about about the Kommandant of Auschwitz and his adventures with Larry and Stretch. I've read Martin Gilbert's excellent Tragedy of the Jews, however. Why not read it yourself? It's a compelling drama.

 

You love fiction. No wonder you love holohuggery.

 

Quote:
I contend the evidence for the Holocaust is overwhelming and its weight cannot be undone by your cherry picking a single line of data. If this case was to be heard in the supreme court anywhere, it could not be proved using a population almanac.

 

If in fact the evidence is overwhelming why is it you cannot produce any of it? Fiction is not evidence.

 

Now if you want to call ZERO dead a holocaust then I have to conclude you are just plain silly in addition to being stupid and a liar.

 

Quote:
Personally, I don't have a problem with your criticising Israel. But I do think criticism must be balanced

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
 

Lets have some balance on the Nazis then. Why the Izziehugging? Balanced with what? What other criminal occupation is there? What other foreign dictatorship is there? I have always stipulated Israel is no better than any other criminal occupation and dictatorship problem is I haven't found any to compare the sanctimonious scum to without retreating to WWII for the only credible comparison. You don't want to discuss that obvious comparison.

 

I have given you all the opportunity possible to produce a comparison and you have not been able to do so.

 

Quote:
and if it is clearly slanted against one group of people without consideration of the crimes of any others then it must be considered inconsistent.

 

To repeat, YOU have never found anything comparable. Why do you expect me to find what you cannot?

 

Quote:
It's hard to take your criticism of Israel seriously Nony, when you hold these additional views about a group of people who were quite obviously slaughtered long before Israel ever existed to make the moral errors you abhor only in them.

 

There is nothing comparable to the sanctimonious scum and their criminal occupation and jewish military dictatorship.

 

You try to foist your fantasy life about zero dead on others. You try to pretend there is something comparable to the atrocities of Israel.

 

You can pretend there is a Santa Claus all you want. Adults do not have to take you seriously.

 

 

 

 

A fair amount of this stuff is just face-pulling from my opponent but clearly the salient issue Nony moors his ludic fallacy to are the World Almanac's estimates of war populations during war years based on what the Almanac itself says are pre-war figures which we can rightly assume did not take into account mass murders or war deaths. Nony insists these questionable figures are the only way by which we can test the key truths of the Holocaust and dismisses all other proofs - documents, testaments, bones, ashes, sites with corresponding features to testimony, as being fiction. I think his comments above establish this fact quite clearly. 

It seems the findings of bones and ash pits by a forensic archaeologist at the site of the Treblinka death camp can be completely ignored because as yet it has not been estimate of the number of dead people they belong too. The 500 mass graves across Ukraine replete with Mauser casings can also be ignored and all the while Nony harks back to that exact figure of 6 million dead. To me he is making a relentless continuum fallacy. The exact numbers of holocaust dead are unknown. Hilberg suggests 5.1 million. The respected German historian Wolfgang Benz says 5.3 to 6.2 million. Paradoxically Nony says that without individual bodies, genealogies and pathology reports he won't believe millions of people were burned to ashes. Those bodies found shot or starved to death he makes no comment on save for reverting to his pet continuum fallacy. 

 

Hoefletelegram.jpg

 

Moving on, the Hofle Telegram above was addressed to Adolf Eichmann, the man who was charged by Obergruppenführer (General) Reinhard Heydrich with the task of facilitating and managing the logistics of mass deportation of Jews to ghettos and extermination camps in German-occupied Eastern Europe. I posted this because it shows the Germans clearly thought they were killing plenty of Jews at their polish death camps over the period to which it relates. It reads:

"12. OMX de OMQ 1000 89 ? ? State secret! To the Reich Security Main Office, for the attention of SS Obersturmbannführer EICHMANN, BERLIN [gap, rest missed] 13/15. OLQ de OMQ 1005 83 234 250 State secret! To the commander of the Security Police, for the attention of SS Obersturmbannführer HEIM, CRACOW. Re: 14-day report operation REINHARD. Reference: radio telegram from there Recorded arrivals until 31 December 42, L 12761, B 0, S 515, T 10335 totaling 23611. Situation [gap] 31 December 42, L 24733, B 434508, S 101370, T 71355, totaling 1274166. SS and police leader of Lublin, HÖFLE, Sturmbannführer."

According to the US National Security Agency, "It appears the British analysts who had decrypted the message missed the significance of this particular message at the time. No doubt this happened because the message itself contained only the identifying letters for the extermination camps followed by the numerical totals. The only clue would have been the reference to Operation Reinhard, the meaning of which – the plan to eliminate Polish Jewry that was named after the assassinated SS General Reinhard Heydrich – also probably was unknown at the time to the codebreakers at Bletchley."

In any case, after a few insults, Nony returns to the issue of exactly how many Jews died in the holocaust. The number must be known for truth to be known. He says I seek a magic number. There is no evidence, I have never shown any evidence, the only acceptable evidence is the World Almanac which we can safely conclude had no boots on the ground in Germany or Eastern Europe during WW2. All other evidence is devoid of merit or is a lie, a fiction, a belief of the stupid. This is rather a poor defense from Nony.   

 

And then there's this:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

There is nothing comparable to the sanctimonious scum and their criminal occupation and jewish military dictatorship.

 

Then this...

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

You try to pretend there is something comparable to the atrocities of Israel.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

I have always stipulated Israel is no better than any other criminal occupation and dictatorship problem is I haven't found any to compare the sanctimonious scum to without retreating to WWII for the only credible comparison.

 

And just to directly refute the demonstrably silly point above, Nony says...

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

The only established massacre is still by the Allies.

 

First, Nony claims Israel is directly comparable to Nazi Germany. Next, he asserts that there has never been anything comparable to the military dictatorship of Israel. Finally, he says the Nazis committed no massacres - the Allies are the guilty. 

As I've repeatedly said throughout our discussion, Israel warrants harsh criticism for its policies in Palestine. But I have repeatedly accused Nony of lacking balance and context, I believe he is guilty of urging crimes against jews he says abhors in jews.

I've also claimed Nony was possibly anti-semitic. Not everyone agreed with my assertion. This is a loaded term nowadays, used as it is by Israeli apologists to sidestep legitimate criticism of the moral failings of their nation.

However, I think the term applies in this case. Nony's particular loathing of the 'sanctimonious scum' who he says are 'incomparably atrocious' (my paraphrase) should now be clearly visible for all to see. 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


Atheistextremist
atheistSilver Member
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5064
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is offlineOffline
You can hardly accuse me of lying, Non.

 

 

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

You ask me a question (Blacklight). Why do you think I argued that except for his lie that I did?

 


 I said you don't accept evidence of the holocaust barring pop stats because you...

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

 

If in fact the evidence is overwhelming why is it you cannot produce any of it? Fiction is not evidence.

 

 

...don't accept evidence of the holocaust. 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Atheistextremist wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Who and what is a nizkook and why do you choose to believe it? Since you are such an ignorant little shit I will enlighten you.

For the record Nizkook Zentral is financed by Larry Shiff of Canada, the pissant Jew who phoned death threats to my son. 

Ken McVay who at one time claimed to run the nizkooks phoned a death threat to my parents.

Canadians think they can get away with anything. Are you on Shiff's payroll too? Should I tell me son to expect the phone calls to start again? Should I have the FBI back on the case? Schiff was last questioned by the FBI about his death threats in Hawaii.

One has to be on the payroll to believe animals like those two.

outpouring of strawmen doesn't really warrant a sensible reply, Nony.

Quote:

He is your chosen expert authority.

Quote:
But it is informative in the context of our long running discussions that you choose to classify the person in question as a pissant 'jew'.  Some details of Nizkor, which is the Hebrew word for 'remembrance' can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizkor_Project . This wiki entry recognises criticism of Nizkor as being a polarising force for holocaust denial thanks to its attempts to directly address denial claims. The site itself is located here http://www.nizkor.org/ .

Another citation of an anonymous source.

Quote:
My interest in Nizkor is strictly limited to the fact that on this anti-holocaust denial website writer Annie Alpert attests that she went to the University of Alberta library and pulled the World Almanacs for the years in question. The point she makes is succinct. That the Almanac's war and early post war years figures of the jewish population of Europe were estimates based on figures from 1938 and that 1949's published figures are based on estimates taken from the research of 1948, that the World Almanac revised its pre-war figure post war - perhaps based on Wannsee Conference estimates - and that it warned all its figures were estimates. 

Your interest in a website run by criminals whom you trust not to be criminals in this context is amusing.

HOWEVER there is still no physical evidence contradicting the self-reported world population for 1948. Why would Jews self-report a number contrary to fact in 1948?

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


blacklight915
blacklight915's picture
Posts: 544
Joined: 2011-12-23
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Your

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Your interest in a website run by criminals whom you trust not to be criminals in this context is amusing.

HOWEVER there is still no physical evidence contradicting the self-reported world population for 1948. Why would Jews self-report a number contrary to fact in 1948?

I want physical evidence that the people who fund that website are criminals.

I want physical evidence that the world population numbers for 1948 that you're citing are self-reported. I want to see precisely where they came from and the precise methodology used.

If you cannot produce physical evidence of these two assertions, I will assume you are making them up and are a liar.

 


Kapkao
atheistSuperfanBronze Member
Kapkao's picture
Posts: 4121
Joined: 2010-01-12
User is offlineOffline
I see a gremlin...

I see a gremlin...

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Atheistextremist wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

You ask me a question (Blacklight). Why do you think I argued that except for his lie that I did?

I said you don't accept evidence of the holocaust barring pop stats because you...

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
If in fact the evidence is overwhelming why is it you cannot produce any of it? Fiction is not evidence.

...don't accept evidence of the holocaust.

I see no reason I should ignore he SELF-REPORTED population data from 1948. 

BUT as I said, the population data does not support the mythology.

ALL you have to do is produce the 1945 population data upon which the 6 million was based. Why can you not produce the evidentiary basis for the 1945 number? It must be around some place. I would expect it to be the first footnote for every book on the subject. But it doesn't exist as you continue to demonstrate.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

blacklight915 wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Your interest in a website run by criminals whom you trust not to be criminals in this context is amusing.

HOWEVER there is still no physical evidence contradicting the self-reported world population for 1948. Why would Jews self-report a number contrary to fact in 1948?

I want physical evidence that the people who fund that website are criminals.

I can only repeat the death threats against my father and my son. I consider that criminal. Perhaps you do not. Your call.

Quote:
I want physical evidence that the world population numbers for 1948 that you're citing are self-reported. I want to see precisely where they came from and the precise methodology used.

If you cannot produce physical evidence of these two assertions, I will assume you are making them up and are a liar.

Excuse but the data I posted included countries such as the US and Russia and most of western Europe which do not collect census data by religion. The data I posted gave jewish sources and catholic sources and such for their numbers. You are certainly free to google world population data for religions and discover they are self-reported.

So if you wish to exclude all data from countries which do not collect census data by religion then you are certainly free to do so. But then you must subtract the US and other data from the totals and agree there were maybe a million or two Jews in the world pre and post war.
 

You are close to making up excuses here. You should know the US does not collect census data on religion. Why are you challenging on something that is common knowledge? I find it amazing that I have to make the point that it is self-reported. What kind of people am I dealing with? Religions ARE self-reported in almost every country in the world. Over the years I happened to find Poland is one of the countries that does collect census data by religion.

Now please research all the countries that do collect census data on religion. I never found it of interest as the US does not and it has the largest jewish population in the world despite a recent Israeli claim which counts non-residents.

PLEASE do better than I have.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Kapkao wrote:

I see a gremlin...

In another thread people were claiming they were studying me. So I decided to use my lab rat avatar. This lab rat has his balls in his cheeks.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


blacklight915
blacklight915's picture
Posts: 544
Joined: 2011-12-23
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:I can

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

I can only repeat the death threats against my father and my son. I consider that criminal. Perhaps you do not. Your call.

A claim is not physical evidence.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

The data I posted gave jewish sources and catholic sources and such for their numbers.

All right, could you show me where you posted this data? I didn't see it in this thread or the "Is anti-zionist antisemetic?" thread.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

You are certainly free to google world population data for religions and discover they are self-reported.

You should know the US does not collect census data on religion. Why are you challenging on something that is common knowledge? I find it amazing that I have to make the point that it is self-reported. What kind of people am I dealing with? Religions ARE self-reported in almost every country in the world. Over the years I happened to find Poland is one of the countries that does collect census data by religion.

Well, then, I apologize for not knowing that the census doesn't collect religious data.

 


Atheistextremist
atheistSilver Member
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5064
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is offlineOffline
This

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

 

You are close to making up excuses here. You should know the US does not collect census data on religion. Why are you challenging on something that is common knowledge? I find it amazing that I have to make the point that it is self-reported. What kind of people am I dealing with? Religions ARE self-reported in almost every country in the world. Over the years I happened to find Poland is one of the countries that does collect census data by religion.

Now please research all the countries that do collect census data on religion. I never found it of interest as the US does not and it has the largest jewish population in the world despite a recent Israeli claim which counts non-residents.

PLEASE do better than I have.

 

applies to your argument just as much as it does to any one else's.

Why are you relying on self-reported estimates recorded in the World Almanac? The point here is simply that the Almanac's 40s figures are based on pre-war estimates. It's that those estimates were flawed to start with, were not based on an actual physical head count, relied on government census data, health organisation data, estimates of fertility, death rates, migration rates, self reporting - as all census figures do. Pop stats are not accurate but you are saying they are and further, you are insisting they take precedence over all other evidence. You also seem to be applying perfection to stats from a period during which no figures could be accurately gathered thanks to poor methodology and the fog of war. Even the WAC admits it's 40s figures are estimates. Why not you, Mr Motivated Reasoning? 

We know, too, that the Germans had their own method of establishing who was Jewish. The Nazis defined a Jew as anyone who either 1) had three or four racially full Jewish grandparents, 2) belonged to a Jewish religious community or joined one after September 15 when the Nuremberg Laws came into  force. Also regarded as Jews was anyone married to a Jew or the children of Jewish parents. Weirdly, this included illegitimate children of the non-Jewish partner. How the Germans established whether or not a person was fully 'racially jewish' is dubious - it must have been based exclusively on last names. What else could it have been? The Wannsee estimates are based on their own census data, including the complete census undertaken in Poland. No doubt their own figures were also inaccurate and based on names, appearances and religious observance, rather than genetic makeup. 

So you are right, religious census is fraught. Now, apply this truth to your own argument and stop insisting pop stats are the pinnacle of the empirical method, inviolate and indubitable.  

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


Kapkao
atheistSuperfanBronze Member
Kapkao's picture
Posts: 4121
Joined: 2010-01-12
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Kapkao

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Kapkao wrote:

I see a gremlin...

In another thread people were claiming they were studying me. So I decided to use my lab rat avatar. This lab rat has his balls in his cheeks.

 

"SPIKE!"

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

blacklight915 wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

I can only repeat the death threats against my father and my son. I consider that criminal. Perhaps you do not. Your call.

A claim is not physical evidence.

It is testimony to an event which occurred. The event is the physical evidence. The vagaries of state laws prevent collecting such evidence for presentation to others. Florida is one of those states. That is why the state and the Feds will take your word for it.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The data I posted gave jewish sources and catholic sources and such for their numbers.

All right, could you show me where you posted this data? I didn't see it in this thread or the "Is anti-zionist antisemetic?" thread.

On the assumption the subject had been googled and the obfuscatory "arguments" about reliability had been discovered I represented this.

The problem with just googling and find the "yearbook" controversy is none of them produce the footnotes IF ANY which back up the yearbook numbers.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
You are certainly free to google world population data for religions and discover they are self-reported.

You should know the US does not collect census data on religion. Why are you challenging on something that is common knowledge? I find it amazing that I have to make the point that it is self-reported. What kind of people am I dealing with? Religions ARE self-reported in almost every country in the world. Over the years I happened to find Poland is one of the countries that does collect census data by religion

Well, then, I apologize for not knowing that the census doesn't collect religious data.

Did not think of it in your case. No blame. I get so tired of so many people who suspend critical thought in matters of religious and holocaustic matters that I tend to tirade a bit.

You see the controversy on the yearbook stuff is contrived just as religious arguments are contrived. They are all intended to distract from the obvious. As there is no evidenciary foundation as of 1948 the number introduced in October 1945 was pulled out of someone's ass and still smells o fit origin. Alternatively, what is the evidenciary foundation for the number in 1945? I am willing to look at it.

 

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Atheistextremist wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
You are close to making up excuses here. You should know the US does not collect census data on religion. Why are you challenging on something that is common knowledge? I find it amazing that I have to make the point that it is self-reported. What kind of people am I dealing with? Religions ARE self-reported in almost every country in the world. Over the years I happened to find Poland is one of the countries that does collect census data by religion.

Now please research all the countries that do collect census data on religion. I never found it of interest as the US does not and it has the largest jewish population in the world despite a recent Israeli claim which counts non-residents.

PLEASE do better than I have.

applies to your argument just as much as it does to any one else's.

I have a policy against becoming involved in irrelevant side issues.

6 million was introduced in 1945. There was an evidentiary basis for it or there was not.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


blacklight915
blacklight915's picture
Posts: 544
Joined: 2011-12-23
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:It is

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

It is testimony to an event which occurred. The event is the physical evidence. The vagaries of state laws prevent collecting such evidence for presentation to others. Florida is one of those states. That is why the state and the Feds will take your word for it.

All right, does it not follow, then, that the testimonies of the people held in the concentration camps should also be taken as valid evidence?

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

The problem with just googling and find the "yearbook" controversy is none of them produce the footnotes IF ANY which back up the yearbook numbers.

Wait, are you arguing for the reliability or unreliability of the documents you posted?  I mean, the 1948 data provides no mention of how its numbers were calculated or even of who did the calculating.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Did not think of it in your case. No blame. I get so tired of so many people who suspend critical thought in matters of religious and holocaustic matters that I tend to tirade a bit.

True, religion and the holocaust are subjects that tend to provoke strong emotions. However, as you point out, anger at people's suspension of critical thinking can, rather ironically, impede one's own critical thinking.

Also, while I definitely don't think death threats are acceptable, I'm wary of demonizing the perpetrators.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

You see the controversy on the yearbook stuff is contrived just as religious arguments are contrived. They are all intended to distract from the obvious. As there is no evidenciary foundation as of 1948 the number introduced in October 1945 was pulled out of someone's ass and still smells of its origin. Alternatively, what is the evidenciary foundation for the number in 1945? I am willing to look at it.

So what if the number is made up?  How does that mean that the holocaust didn't happen and that all the other evidence is invalid?

 


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

blacklight915 wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

It is testimony to an event which occurred. The event is the physical evidence. The vagaries of state laws prevent collecting such evidence for presentation to others. Florida is one of those states. That is why the state and the Feds will take your word for it.

All right, does it not follow, then, that the testimonies of the people held in the concentration camps should also be taken as valid evidence?

Why should arbitrary laws preventing the collection of physical evidence justify stories as proof of alien abductions? How about testimonies to salvation through Jesus Christ? What do they "prove"?

Why do you want these particular stories to be true when they are contrary to the physical evidence?

To take it the important next step you have NEVER looked at or critically evaluated what are called "testimonies" which is meant in exactly the same way as testimonies to salvation are meant. I have. Here is all there is about gas chambers that are not  one line comments in passing which is all the nizkook source is. www.giwersworld.org/holo/nizgas3.html And not a single source was ever under oath with penalty of perjury attached. If you look at the link you will see just how many liars there are in the business. Mutually exclusive things cannot both be true. Things which do not happen cannot be observed. This is how I know you have never looked at the sources. You have only listened to what people tell you about the sources. The description of the thing is not the thing.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The problem with just googling and find the "yearbook" controversy is none of them produce the footnotes IF ANY which back up the yearbook numbers.

Wait, are you arguing for the reliability or unreliability of the documents you posted?  I mean, the 1948 data provides no mention of how its numbers were calculated or even of who did the calculating.

It agrees with the yearbook data. It shows sources who reported numbers which do not support a 6 million reduction. How much further need one go? It takes little effort to find the methodologies. In the good old days religions simply counted up their church or synagogue registries. Since the 90s they have all started estimating their "unregistered" members. The last Jewish one is still on hold (last I heard) after a two year debate on who is a Jew and how to estimate non-synagogue members.

The only point of interest is there is no evidenciary basis for 6 million dead in 1945. All else is distraction.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Did not think of it in your case. No blame. I get so tired of so many people who suspend critical thought in matters of religious and holocaustic matters that I tend to tirade a bit.

True, religion and the holocaust are subjects that tend to provoke strong emotions. However, as you point out, anger at people's suspension of critical thinking can, rather ironically, impede one's own critical thinking.

Also, while I definitely don't think death threats are acceptable, I'm wary of demonizing the perpetrators.

A criminal is a criminal. Demonizing makes it an issue for Buffy to handle.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

You see the controversy on the yearbook stuff is contrived just as religious arguments are contrived. They are all intended to distract from the obvious. As there is no evidenciary foundation as of 1948 the number introduced in October 1945 was pulled out of someone's ass and still smells of its origin. Alternatively, what is the evidenciary foundation for the number in 1945? I am willing to look at it.

So what if the number is made up?  How does that mean that the holocaust didn't happen and that all the other evidence is invalid?

Think about what you are asking. To rephrase your statement ...

Quote:
So what if there were no holocaust?  How does that mean that the holocaust didn't happen and that all the other evidence is invalid?

If you do not mean 6 million dead do you mean like internment camps in Britain and the US and Canada and Australia? Do you mean like the Russian Gulags from 1917 thru 1988?

This whole "holocaust" thing is undefined. Not that you cannot find a definition. The problem is you can find dozens of conflicting and mutually exclusive definitions. All cannot be true. www.giwersworld.org/holo/defined.html That was a long time ago when I took a broad brush attempt to address many of the different emotive descriptions which do not arise to the level of definition. Keep in mind refutation of any point does not consist of you personally adopting one you like. It means presenting the contrary physical evidence. Presenting the physical evidence does not mean talking about the physical evidence. It consists only of a description of what the physical evidence is prior to discussing it.

BUT without an evidenciary basis for 6 million in 1945 you have a steep learning curve to make an issue of whatever did happen. And what did happen requires an evidenciary basis not an assumption previous assertions are true. Reason? Today the entire issue of mass extermination begins only after the war between Russia and Germany starts and then the stories only come from communists and communist sources.

For the record it has only been called holocaust since the TV miniseries used that name. Before that it was only called the Shoah, in English disaster, in Arabic Nakbah. It derives from Churchill's polemic phrase "Nazi holocaust" in reference to the war itself in toto and nothing specific. Nakbah is what Palestinians call zionist terror.

At one time I considered doing a lampoon on the claim it was "unique" but never got around to it. If you should ever look at the dozens of attempts to claim it was unique you will find they are all attempts to avoid saying the only reason it was unique is because it happened to Jews. Their attempts are in themselves lampoons. It is not possible to lampoon lampoons.

I will make you a clean offer. You find an official source for an official definition of this event and what it consisted of and I will deal with that. You will discover there is no official source much less a definition or inclusive contents of it.

Yet you are throwing around a word "Holocaust" which has no definition and asking why it did not happen. What IT are you talking about if IT is not defined? 

As my alter ego wrote about the subject

If I were told WWII had been conducted in secret, that all but a few documents
had been destroyed, that those documents were all in code words, and it took a
court to establish that it happened, damned right I would be skeptical.
        -- The Iron Webmaster, 32
 

BTW: for the Nuremberg court it was such a minor part one could almost call it an afterthought.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


blacklight915
blacklight915's picture
Posts: 544
Joined: 2011-12-23
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Why do

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Why do you want these particular stories to be true when they are contrary to the physical evidence?

If your testimony is all that is needed to prove your story true, then it follows that anyone's testimony is all that is needed to prove their story true. If testimony is enough in your case, why is it not also enough in someone else's case?

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

It agrees with the yearbook data. It shows sources who reported numbers which do not support a 6 million reduction. How much further need one go? It takes little effort to find the methodologies. In the good old days religions simply counted up their church or synagogue registries.

The 1948 data you posted provides no sources or methodologies; none of the data you posted provides specific methodologies. Additionally, the data you posted specifically states it has been "estimated".

All right, could you point me to where you found these methodologies?

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

I will make you a clean offer. You find an official source for an official definition of this event and what it consisted of and I will deal with that. You will discover there is no official source much less a definition or inclusive contents of it.

What qualifies as an "official" source or definition?  Do peer-reviewed scholarly sources count?  In addition, what constitutes "physical evidence"?  Do pictures and documents count?

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

If I were told WWII had been conducted in secret, that all but a few documents 
had been destroyed, that those documents were all in code words, and it took a 
court to establish that it happened, damned right I would be skeptical. 
        -- The Iron Webmaster, 32

Well, you have presented me with nothing other than your word that death threats have been made by someone against your father and son. Am I not also justified in being skeptical?

 


blacklight915
blacklight915's picture
Posts: 544
Joined: 2011-12-23
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:If you do

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

If you do not mean 6 million dead do you mean like internment camps in Britain and the US and Canada and Australia? Do you mean like the Russian Gulags from 1917 thru 1988?

I suppose I really should have been more specific, but why couldn't I have meant 5, 4, 3, 2, or 1 million dead? Are they not also significant numbers? I imagine such a number of people died in the Russian labor camps. So, did Germany have internment camps like these?

 


Atheistextremist
atheistSilver Member
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5064
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is offlineOffline
Oh, yeah

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

 

If you do not mean 6 million dead do you mean like internment camps in Britain and the US and Canada and Australia? Do you mean like the Russian Gulags from 1917 thru 1988?

 

 

The polish death camps were just like the ones in Canada and Australia and Britain. Exactly like them. Just for interests sake, Non, what motivates jewish folks to pretend all their ancestors died in the holocaust.

My good friend David is German Jewish and most his ancestral family died in the holocaust. It doesn't seem to me that he gains anything from claiming these things took place if they're totally fabricated. Why does he do it?

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

blacklight915 wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Why do you want these particular stories to be true when they are contrary to the physical evidence?

If your testimony is all that is needed to prove your story true, then it follows that anyone's testimony is all that is needed to prove their story true. If testimony is enough in your case, why is it not also enough in someone else's case?

No one has to believe me. As I showed you, the existing gas chamber stories NOT testimony is incredible, absurd, mutually contradictory OR all but one story is are lies.

If you should really insist upon testimony then in court testimony can only be TO physical evidence. Testimony to a fact not in evidence is not permitted in western courts. Considering there is not a single autopsy showing death by cyanide testimony to death by cyanide is inadmissible.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
It agrees with the yearbook data. It shows sources who reported numbers which do not support a 6 million reduction. How much further need one go? It takes little effort to find the methodologies. In the good old days religions simply counted up their church or synagogue registries.

The 1948 data you posted provides no sources or methodologies; none of the data you posted provides specific methodologies. Additionally, the data you posted specifically states it has been "estimated".

All right, could you point me to where you found these methodologies?

google: jewish population census methodology

and find among many http://www.jewishdatabank.org/PopulationStatistics.asp

Which does NOT change the total absence of any 1945 population data.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
I will make you a clean offer. You find an official source for an official definition of this event and what it consisted of and I will deal with that. You will discover there is no official source much less a definition or inclusive contents of it.

What qualifies as an "official" source or definition?  Do peer-reviewed scholarly sources count?  In addition, what constitutes "physical evidence"?  Do pictures and documents count?

Please the URLs to the pictures and documents which would constitute evidence of a world wide reduction of six million over the war years. I have seen just about everything. Amaze me.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

If I were told WWII had been conducted in secret, that all but a few documents 
had been destroyed, that those documents were all in code words, and it took a 
court to establish that it happened, damned right I would be skeptical. 
        -- The Iron Webmaster, 32

Well, you have presented me with nothing other than your word that death threats have been made by someone against your father and son. Am I not also justified in being skeptical?

You are equally free not to believe either claim as is anyone.

It is always correct to demand physical evidence. In the holohugger case in my 16 years of asking after the evidentiary basis for the number claimed in 1945 no one has produced any. Perhaps you will be the first to find it. Surprise me.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

blacklight915 wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

If you do not mean 6 million dead do you mean like internment camps in Britain and the US and Canada and Australia? Do you mean like the Russian Gulags from 1917 thru 1988?

I suppose I really should have been more specific, but why couldn't I have meant 5, 4, 3, 2, or 1 million dead? Are they not also significant numbers? I imagine such a number of people died in the Russian labor camps.

You could have meant any other number but we are talking about the holy holocaust. A 6 with six zeros is a sacred number. If you talk about Holocaust tm you are talking about 6M.

Quote:
So, did Germany have internment camps like these?

Duh. Do  you not realize you are attempting to argue a subject about which you essentially know nothing?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Atheistextremist wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
If you do not mean 6 million dead do you mean like internment camps in Britain and the US and Canada and Australia? Do you mean like the Russian Gulags from 1917 thru 1988?

The polish death camps were just like the ones in Canada and Australia and Britain. Exactly like them. Just for interests sake, Non, what motivates jewish folks to pretend all their ancestors died in the holocaust.

Assuming the conclusion is a logical fallacy even when applied to this unworthy cause. I remind you it is your unevidenced belief that the Russians found death camps in Poland.

Quote:
My good friend David is German Jewish and most his ancestral family died in the holocaust.

I know a woman whose father lost his entire family, wife and children, during WWII, at least that is what the Russians told him.

Quote:
It doesn't seem to me that he gains anything from claiming these things took place if they're totally fabricated. Why does he do it?

It is not reasonable to expect me to establish, from all the reasons people lie, why this person whom I have never met is telling that story to you. You are also playing a variation upon "prove a negative." If man tells you he met Jesus would you ask me why he is lying to no apparent gain? Why the double standard in what you accept? Was it more credible for the people in the 1st c. AD to believe in Jesus than it is today simply because of proximity in time? Because the witnesses were still alive?

How old is he? He has to have been about 15 in 1940 to have personally known and personally remember any significant number of family members.

Perhaps it is what he was told as a child. So then you would ask me to divine the reason he was told that story.

Then I would remind you "recovered memory syndrome" was first identified as a consequence of analyzing people who got together to remember UFO abductions. But the practice recovering memories started with holocaust "survivors" getting together to remember. And that is when the explosion of gas chamber memories appeared. There were essentially none prior to that. Every book written by people recounting their "surviving" the holocaust has been exposed as a hoax, The Painted Bird and Fragments are just the most recent.

For the record I clearly remember as a child listening to my aunts and uncles talking about where they were when the first heard of the attack on Pearl Harbor. I clearly remember remembering where I was and the radio I was listening to when first heard of it and them laughing when I told them. As it happened before I was born is both an explanation for their laughter but my person recalled memory syndrome.

In the 90s there was a popular phenomenon in Canada of reincarnated Jews remembering their past lives when they were gassed at Auschwitz. No one had the balls to ridicule that but the clowns were given press coverage, the Toronto Star being the most gullible.

Until you have spent your first thousand hours researching this subject you don't have an opinion of interest. Remember the rule, it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert on any subject. But like a believer, you KNOW. Certainty was infused into you because EVERYONE knows it.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
correction

Atheistextremist wrote:
My good friend David is German Jewish

A jewish German like Einstein.

 


blacklight915
blacklight915's picture
Posts: 544
Joined: 2011-12-23
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Please

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Please the URLs to the pictures and documents which would constitute evidence of a world wide reduction of six million over the war years. I have seen just about everything. Amaze me.

So your response to my question of what counts as an official source is "post something I would consider official"?  I still don't know what you consider official!

What would you consider to be evidence of the millions killed in the battles of WWII?

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

It is always correct to demand physical evidence. In the holohugger case in my 16 years of asking after the evidentiary basis for the number claimed in 1945 no one has produced any. Perhaps you will be the first to find it. Surprise me.

If you've searched and asked for 16 years and have never seen what you consider to be sufficient evidence, then I'm pretty sure it simply doesn't exist.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

You could have meant any other number but we are talking about the holy holocaust. A 6 with six zeros is a sacred number. If you talk about Holocaust tm you are talking about 6M.

Wow, can you not see how completely false this statement is?  I'll prove it wrong right here: when I refer to "the Holocaust" I am talking about the death of 5.1 million Jews. Done.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Duh. Do you not realize you are attempting to argue a subject about which you essentially know nothing?

Yup, I am completely aware of that.

 


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

blacklight915 wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Please the URLs to the pictures and documents which would constitute evidence of a world wide reduction of six million over the war years. I have seen just about everything. Amaze me.

So your response to my question of what counts as an official source is "post something I would consider official"?  I still don't know what you consider official!

Here we go again. I did NOT say official. You asked if pictures and documents would constitute evidence. I asked to see this evidence you implied existed. I did not say official in any thing you quoted. If you have nothing please simply admit you believe because you were told what to believe. Belief is not knowledge. You do not know anything about the 6M however you appear to believe things for which you do not have evidence.

Are you afraid to admit it is only a belief? I have seen Christiians in your quandry, unable to make the leap to atheism. Most never do.

Quote:
What would you consider to be evidence of the millions killed in the battles of WWII?

The official records of combat related deaths. That is 44 million. A quite well known number which YOU can research. It is simply the sum of losses nations reported. For the record there have been strong suspicions from the beginning that the Soviets produced an official number ten times higher than the real number which Stalin gave to Roosevelt late in the war. This suspicion is supported by the absence of tens of millions of unwed mothers or maiden spinsters in the post war years.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
It is always correct to demand physical evidence. In the holohugger case in my 16 years of asking after the evidentiary basis for the number claimed in 1945 no one has produced any. Perhaps you will be the first to find it. Surprise me.

If you've searched and asked for 16 years and have never seen what you consider to be sufficient evidence, then I'm pretty sure it simply doesn't exist.

As am I very confident it does not exist. What I know is no one whom I have challenged knows of any evidence for the belief. Again, I willing to be surprised. I think it is rational to say that if there were physical evidence for 6M produced in 1945 it would be the first thing discussed and the first footnote reference in every subsequent book on the subject. I have not even found a reference to any seminal work establishing the number.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
You could have meant any other number but we are talking about the holy holocaust. A 6 with six zeros is a sacred number. If you talk about Holocaust tm you are talking about 6M.

Wow, can you not see how completely false this statement is?  I'll prove it wrong right here: when I refer to "the Holocaust" I am talking about the death of 5.1 million Jews. Done.

That is not the one the Jews talk about. You will have to write yours up some day so people will know what you are talking about. When and where did that one occur?

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Duh. Do you not realize you are attempting to argue a subject about which you essentially know nothing?

Yup, I am completely aware of that.

Then what is your point?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


blacklight915
blacklight915's picture
Posts: 544
Joined: 2011-12-23
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Here we

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Here we go again. I did NOT say official.

Here's the complete conversation:

blacklight915 wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

blacklight915 wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

I will make you a clean offer. You find an official source for an official definition of this event and what it consisted of and I will deal with that. You will discover there is no official source much less a definition or inclusive contents of it.

What qualifies as an "official" source or definition?  Do peer-reviewed scholarly sources count?  In addition, what constitutes "physical evidence"?  Do pictures and documents count?

Please the URLs to the pictures and documents which would constitute evidence of a world wide reduction of six million over the war years. I have seen just about everything. Amaze me.

So your response to my question of what counts as an official source is "post something I would consider official"?  I still don't know what you consider official!

Your very first offer contained the word "official". I just assumed it was clear what I was referring to--sorry about that.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

If you have nothing please simply admit you believe because you were told what to believe.

I think the Holocaust occurred because I have seen some of the alleged evidence for it, heard about tons of alleged evidence for it, and been told the Holocaust occurred by people with degrees in history. Interestingly enough, this is about all I have to back up anything I've been taught in school. So no, I don't have "nothing"--I just have very little.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

That is not the one the Jews talk about. You will have to write yours up some day so people will know what you are talking about. When and where did that one occur?

It occurred at the exact same time and place as the one the Jews talk about; in fact, it is the one the Jews talk about--I just happen to think that 5.1 million is a far more accurate number since it is backed up by the "Holocaust encyclopedia" Atheistextremist referenced. (and yes, I'm aware you don't consider it to be valid evidence)

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Then what is your point?

Nothing, I was simply answering a question you asked me.

 


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

blacklight915 wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Here we go again. I did NOT say official.

Here's the complete conversation:

blacklight915 wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

blacklight915 wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

I will make you a clean offer. You find an official source for an official definition of this event and what it consisted of and I will deal with that. You will discover there is no official source much less a definition or inclusive contents of it.

What qualifies as an "official" source or definition?  Do peer-reviewed scholarly sources count?  In addition, what constitutes "physical evidence"?  Do pictures and documents count?

Please the URLs to the pictures and documents which would constitute evidence of a world wide reduction of six million over the war years. I have seen just about everything. Amaze me.

So your response to my question of what counts as an official source is "post something I would consider official"?  I still don't know what you consider official!

Your very first offer contained the word "official". I just assumed it was clear what I was referring to--sorry about that.

And because I said official DEFINITION you feel free to use that word to modify any other noun of your choosing? I do make an effort to choose my words carefully. I make enough errors on my own. I do not need others to make them for me.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

If you have nothing please simply admit you believe because you were told what to believe.

I think the Holocaust occurred because I have seen some of the alleged evidence for it, heard about tons of alleged evidence for it, and been told the Holocaust occurred by people with degrees in history. Interestingly enough, this is about all I have to back up anything I've been taught in school. So no, I don't have "nothing"--I just have very little.

There are no texts on the holy holocausttm by a PhD historian, not even a popular work without the PhD attached. Similarly there are no papers in academic journals on the subject by similarly degreed historians. Who told you otherwise and why did you believe them? If in fact they had those degrees why not ask them for proper academic citation of sources on gas chambers and millions exterminated and such? They ran their mouths. Call them on it.

As to your amusing interest in alleged evidence, why do you prefer that to real evidence?

You have undergraduate BS. With luck you will eventually grow beyond it. Undergrads do not call profs on their bluffs until after the grades are in and the recommendations are written. I know that. Here is a hint. Ever since student aid for college was created they have devolved towards glorified high schools. Even when there is a pretension to critical thinking points are taken away for failure to arrive at the correct conclusion.

An obvious example. Do you think Shakespeare was a second rate playwright? Until the late 19th c. almost every professor of English literature would have agreed with you. How did the Bard suddenly improve? I assure you it was not the discovery of the original Klingon.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

That is not the one the Jews talk about. You will have to write yours up some day so people will know what you are talking about. When and where did that one occur?

It occurred at the exact same time and place as the one the Jews talk about; in fact, it is the one the Jews talk about--I just happen to think that 5.1 million is a far more accurate number since it is backed up by the "Holocaust encyclopedia" Atheistextremist referenced. (and yes, I'm aware you don't consider it to be valid evidence)

That is fine with me but it is no different than you wanting to talk about the American revolution of 1779 by 5 of the colonies. You cannot define your own target to defend to ME. You can take your definition and thrash it out with your fellow holohuggers. When you folks decide among yourselves I will address what you have agreed upon. I have been things to do than address dozens of mutually exclusive ideas. If you folks don't know what you are talking about, if you folks hold mutually exclusive positions, please do not expect me to take sides.

DO expect me to ridicule you huggers as not agreeing upon what you so emotionally defend.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Then what is your point?

Nothing, I was simply answering a question you asked me.

If you agree you do not know the subject then why are you asking me to deal with material you do not know? Of course Germany had internment camps. That is what they were called. That is what the Sec Interior was against FDR calling the US camps for Japanese but FDR did anyway. It was a propaganda war. It showed there was no difference.

The only claimed "extermination" camps were discovered by the Communists who have never produced any false propaganda since they were lowly Bolshevik terrorists. NO western army ever got near the camps in Poland.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


blacklight915
blacklight915's picture
Posts: 544
Joined: 2011-12-23
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:I will

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

I will make you a clean offer. You find an official source for an official definition of this event and what it consisted of and I will deal with that. You will discover there is no official source much less a definition or inclusive contents of it.

"Official source" appears twice in the above statement. This statement first appeared in a post under your name. Unless you didn't write that part, you clearly stated both "official source" and "official definition".

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

There are no texts on the holy holocausttm by a PhD historian, not even a popular work without the PhD attached. Similarly there are no papers in academic journals on the subject by similarly degreed historians.

I'll definitely have to check that out.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

As to your amusing interest in alleged evidence, why do you prefer that to real evidence?

Well, while I happen to think the evidence for the Holocaust is real evidence, you clearly don't. I typed "alleged evidence" instead of "evidence" to save myself the trouble of hearing, once again, how there is no legitimate evidence for the Holocaust.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

 

That is fine with me but it is no different than you wanting to talk about the American revolution of 1779 by 5 of the colonies. You cannot define your own target to defend to ME. You can take your definition and thrash it out with your fellow holohuggers. When you folks decide among yourselves I will address what you have agreed upon. I have been things to do than address dozens of mutually exclusive ideas. If you folks don't know what you are talking about, if you folks hold mutually exclusive positions, please do not expect me to take sides.

DO expect me to ridicule you huggers as not agreeing upon what you so emotionally defend.

Well, all right--I'll get back to you if I find a scholarly consensus on the Holocaust.

 

 

 


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

blacklight915 wrote:
Well, all right--I'll get back to you if I find a scholarly consensus on the Holocaust./quote]

Don't bother. I can find a scholarly consensus that Jesus was the son of god. There are christian scholars you know. If you trust scholars, trust me. I am an official scholar. I was a semi-finalist and the letter said I was a National Meric Scholar. If you are willing to accept the consensus of high school seniors you should have gone into plumbing. Scholar is meaningless unless defined. Consensus is meaningless without defining the "scholars," the nature of the question put to them and the results of the voting.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


blacklight915
blacklight915's picture
Posts: 544
Joined: 2011-12-23
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Don't

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Don't bother. I can find a scholarly consensus that Jesus was the son of god. There are christian scholars you know. If you trust scholars, trust me. I am an official scholar. I was a semi-finalist and the letter said I was a National Meric Scholar. If you are willing to accept the consensus of high school seniors you should have gone into plumbing. Scholar is meaningless unless defined. Consensus is meaningless without defining the "scholars," the nature of the question put to them and the results of the voting.

In this case, by "scholar" I mean PhD historian, and by "consensus" I mean lots of articles in peer-reviewed academic journals. Since you claim there are no peer-reviewed books or academic papers on the Holocaust published by anyone with a PhD in history--I will get back to you if I ever find any.

 


ZuS
atheist
ZuS's picture
Posts: 562
Joined: 2009-02-22
User is offlineOffline
The thesis:FurryCatHerder

The thesis:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Out-sourcing is being reduced in some industries, where companies are finding that customers don't like talking to people who have fake names and speak bad English.

The supporting research:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Funny story -- I have a colleague who buy two of whatever they need to buy whenever they shop Harbor Freight.  They figure that way when one of them breaks, they still have the other one.  Trouble is, what happens when the second one breaks?

The conclusion:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

... tool steel is so hard that it breaks before bending.  As far as I could figure, it was just plain high carbon steel.

Female brain is a mystery.

Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.


ZuS
atheist
ZuS's picture
Posts: 562
Joined: 2009-02-22
User is offlineOffline
NMCP wrote: I have a

NMCP wrote:

 I have a question for you guys regarding the subject, I found it interesting because I find reasonable and honorable points on both sides.  The issue and argument came up on "Shark Tank" last night.  One entrepneur created a fold down truck rack that fits 95% of pickup trucks, a clearly well built and designed product.  His goal was to manufacture the product locally in his economically strained town somewhere in North Carolina.   It was clear his goal was more to bring jobs to "his" people, than to make a succesfull business.  It was pointed out that at his current price point of $250 cost per unit was too high, distributors could only buy the product for $320 if they were to resell at a competetive price and still profit themselves.  So for the business to succeed (atleast at first) he MUST outsource the manufacturing, and get the price per unit cost down to $150, just under half of what they would be sold for, a mark all investors look for in a company (if you cant sell your product for atleast double of what it costs to make, your business will most likely fail, or just stay stagnant).  This man refused to outsource the work as he found his venture to be honorable only if he brought jobs to "his" people, this certainly seems like an honorable position. 

 

What he is trying to do is recover a broken local economy. It is not "honorable", it is common sense. Unlike the oil industry who does not need the billions in subsidies and who basically steal American oil, this man is getting no subsidies. You should ask the question - why?

NMCP wrote:

But it was pointed out by one of the investors, that all people should be "his" people, and he needs to think of the world more as a global economy, and that the people who would manufacture his product overseas all have children to feed and mortgages to pay aswell, and we are all ofcourse immigrants from other countries down the line.

I am sure the investor you mention explains rape in terms of "well, otherwise she wouldn't have gotten any that night" to us, his wife and kids and to himself in order to be able to sleep at night, but the facts are different. He is not in the business of charity or building up economies; he will avoid laws if he can and create bubbles that will eventually destroy everything in their path wherever he can. "Capital" is global, rules of the market are local; they simply use divide and conquer tactics to destroy the global movement for a law-guided economy that would support a powerful global middle class. Our investor supports fascism instead. Literally. Democratically managed economy is the antithesis to the capital-ruled society and they won't have any of it.

NMCP wrote:

Also it was pointed out "who can you help if your business fails with your current model, imagine how many you could help if your business was doing 5 million a year."  And also "you help the business first, grow it and make it successful, then with the new influence and resources you have find a way to bring jobs to your locals.  Marketing, accounting, sales, etc... You would need to hire a lot of locals for such a large company, and maybe in the future with enough buying power you could find a way to maybe one day bring the manufacturing home now that you are producing tens of thousands of units."

Yes, please continue with one excuse on top of another. Let's all build this boubble and on it this house of cards where the American jobs are the last link called sales and services. See? Plenty of low paid jobs based on nothing and could dissapear in a second to go around. Excuse me, who the fuck are you going to sell the products to, if we all work at WalMart and can't make the mortgage payment?

Alternatively, we could invest in a local infrastructure, so that production doesn't cost that much and so that we keep a steady level of expert knowledge at home. We could also pressure China to improve worker standards (just hammer away at them every day, sort of like we do with Iran for no goddamn reason but to up oil prices and rise war stocks, making the rich richer and our children future posthumous Purple Heart winners), so that the labor competition is more even.

Trouble is, this is not convenient for our investor... no no, this is protectionism, we can't have that. Much more convenient is the free market ideology informed economy, where our manufacturing is run by a communist dictatorship (this should fucking give you pause right here). And it just so happens that these are the people who pay our politicians more than their government jobs do; darn coincidence that their idea is the dominant one.

NMCP wrote:

So what are your opigions, who is correct and who is not?  The investors were all out although they loved the guy, his passion, and his product, they could not get past the fact he was so stubborn on the outsourcing part in the business' startup.   He would not budge, and they simply would not invest in a company that manufactures a product for $250 and sells it for $320, because they know it is a doomed model.  And just to clarify, they were ofcourse talking about getting product manufactured ethically from reputable overseas companies that aren't paying 7 year olds 50c a day, they were not talking about slave labour here, just a company that can simply produce a product for less but are not local.

Awwwwwww, such a shame. You know we gave the banks something in the neighbourhood of 13 trillion $ in bailout & 0% interest loans just the other day. We give the oil industry 46 billion a year for fun. We invest heavily in killing brown people - just so our war industry can flourish. With the tiniest fraction of that money invested in the infrastructure and education, we could be colonizing Mars at this point, let alone producing truck acessories at affordable prices. But that would mean a more democratic economic system and our good hearted business and govenrment leaders can't have that. They are simply a part of a machine that will stop at nothing before it completely grinds to ashes any semblance of middle class anywhere in the world.

 

So you see, it is not so much a question of who is right, but more a question of how fucking stupid you have to be to accept their self-deluding arguments at face value or even just discuss them as, what was it you called them, "reasonable and honorable points".

Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.


ZuS
atheist
ZuS's picture
Posts: 562
Joined: 2009-02-22
User is offlineOffline
Thesis:A_Nony_Mouse

Thesis:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Problem is it results in a US production base that is not competitive in the world market. Things would cost too much.

Supporting research:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

The last thing is average income. It has been flat in inflated dollars for over twenty years. True but because jobs have been outsourced products have become cheaper so the same income buys more.

Conclusion:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

As I showed you, the existing gas chamber stories NOT testimony is incredible, absurd, mutually contradictory OR all but one story is are lies.

It may be hard to believe, but the same conclusion is compatible with virtually any discussion A_Nony_Mouse joins. Quite efficient.

Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

blacklight915 wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Don't bother. I can find a scholarly consensus that Jesus was the son of god. There are christian scholars you know. If you trust scholars, trust me. I am an official scholar. I was a semi-finalist and the letter said I was a National Meric Scholar. If you are willing to accept the consensus of high school seniors you should have gone into plumbing. Scholar is meaningless unless defined. Consensus is meaningless without defining the "scholars," the nature of the question put to them and the results of the voting.

In this case, by "scholar" I mean PhD historian, and by "consensus" I mean lots of articles in peer-reviewed academic journals. Since you claim there are no peer-reviewed books or academic papers on the Holocaust published by anyone with a PhD in history--I will get back to you if I ever find any.

It is good that is what you mean.

Because by that meaning there are no such papers. Because there are no such papers there cannot be a consensus.

If you disagree with that all you need to do is cite the papers and books which support the extermination of six million. Note again the extermination of six million Jews is the only thing I have been discussing. I have address nothing else.

Before you post books you think satisfy your criteria you should first verify the academic field and the peer-review process applied. For example Debbie Lipschitz has a degree in comparative religion, taught in the department of Religion and Psychology at Pepsi-Cola U, and was subjected to no review process.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

ZuS wrote:
Thesis:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Problem is it results in a US production base that is not competitive in the world market. Things would cost too much.
Supporting research:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The last thing is average income. It has been flat in inflated dollars for over twenty years. True but because jobs have been outsourced products have become cheaper so the same income buys more.

Conclusion:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
As I showed you, the existing gas chamber stories NOT testimony is incredible, absurd, mutually contradictory OR all but one story is are lies.

It may be hard to believe, but the same conclusion is compatible with virtually any discussion A_Nony_Mouse joins. Quite efficient.

Your browser has a very strange virus. You should report it.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
ZuS

ZuS wrote:

Thesis:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
...

As I showed you, the existing gas chamber stories NOT testimony is incredible, absurd, mutually contradictory OR all but one story is are lies.

It may be hard to believe, but the same conclusion is compatible with virtually any discussion A_Nony_Mouse joins. Quite efficient.

For the record you will note I do NOT bring it up. People can't let go of it no matter how many times they fail to produce evidence for their beliefs in that subject. Nor are they able to stop themselves from bringing it up any every possible context. You can trace back this discussion and see for yourself I did not bring it up. I am very careful not to even hint at it.

That said a long time ago I realized ours was the "only" society that did not have any officially upheld absurd beliefs such as in witchcraft or racial superiority. Realizing that was highly unlikely I began looking for the parallel in today's society.

I have found several over the years. This one is just the most emotional ranking even above atheism although theism does not count as one of the discoveries. It is possible to rationally discuss the reality of WWII rather than the farcical patriotic nonsense of good against evil without necessarily running into holohuggery but holohuggery is always the trump card. (Godwin's Law is inherently antisemitic in that sense.)

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml