Power and Control

blacklight915
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Power and Control

I'm curious: why do people even want power and control over others?

 


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blacklight915 wrote:I'm

blacklight915 wrote:

I'm curious: why do people even want power and control over others?

Because it would be really nice if I could make you mow my lawn.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


Brian37
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I really think it is a

I really think it is a psychological replacement of our evolutionary drive for resources. If we have power over others they get the resources to us. It also gives us a sense of self of being important. If we didn't have some natural desire to continue we wouldn't have evolved.

The ilk of power and control that I think by virtue of the question is calling into question those who want absolute power, even business owners want that.

Wanting power and control over others can manifest in good ways and bad ways. There are people who want to lead out of selfless altruism and then there are people who want power simply to have power.

But the simple answer is evolution. The more resources we have, the more opportunity we have to make offspring. Having power over resources offers that.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:But the simple

Brian37 wrote:

But the simple answer is evolution. The more resources we have, the more opportunity we have to make offspring. Having power over resources offers that.

That makes sense. The alpha male in a group gets to have sex with whatever female he wants to. Sometimes, he the only male that is allowed to have sex with any females at all. The alpha female(s) in a group get access to the best resources in the alpha male's territory. The offspring of the alpha female(s) also get access to these best resources. So, those with the alpha/dominant status have the best chance of passing on their genes. Since the basic goal of every life form is to pass on its genes as much as possible, social life forms really want that dominant status.

Which, I suppose, makes it somewhat strange that I have such little desire to gain a dominant status. In fact, I do not wish to pass on my genes (have children) at all. I would much rather pass on my knowledge and help care for the many children already born.

 

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Because it would be really nice if I could make you mow my lawn.

Where do you live?

 


Brian37
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blacklight915 wrote:Brian37

blacklight915 wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

But the simple answer is evolution. The more resources we have, the more opportunity we have to make offspring. Having power over resources offers that.

That makes sense. The alpha male in a group gets to have sex with whatever female he wants to. Sometimes, he the only male that is allowed to have sex with any females at all. The alpha female(s) in a group get access to the best resources in the alpha male's territory. The offspring of the alpha female(s) also get access to these best resources. So, those with the alpha/dominant status have the best chance of passing on their genes. Since the basic goal of every life form is to pass on its genes as much as possible, social life forms really want that dominant status.

Which, I suppose, makes it somewhat strange that I have such little desire to gain a dominant status. In fact, I do not wish to pass on my genes (have children) at all. I would much rather pass on my knowledge and help care for the many children already born.

 

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Because it would be really nice if I could make you mow my lawn.

Where do you live?

 

The alpha male in evolution however IS NOT a guarantee. Evolution is not one dimensional. Gadaffi got to the top of the heap and that ultimately didn't help him. He did manage to create offspring, but his alpha male status got him killed.

Dominance is ONE aspect of evolution, so is socializing and nurture. None of them work without the others and none of them are absolutes. I am simply giving you the psychological reason people want power, that is not saying that power is the only thing that works in evolution.

I like giving this example.

Say a 140lb guy 5 foot 8 goes into a bar and sits next to a 300lb 6 foot 3 guy. The smaller guy does not have kids nor does the bigger guy at this point. The small guy spills his beer on the big guy. The big guy gets pissed and starts punching the small guy. The small guy pulls out a gun and shoots the big guy and kills him. So dominance in this instance did not work. The small guy gets off on self defense and goes on to have kids.

There are also things that are not human that affect us no matter how fit we are, or how much money we have, or how much power we have over others. Bacteria is the most abundant life on this planet and is the real top of the evolutionary chain. It outnumbers all other life combined and is the most efficient at adapting and is the most reproductive.

Evolution is not either or, but a combo of adapting, nurture, genes and luck, not one or another but all in combo.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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blacklight915

blacklight915 wrote:
FurryCatHerder wrote:

Because it would be really nice if I could make you mow my lawn.

Where do you live?

Texas.

I live on a very large cat ranch where cats are specially bred for sale to Atheists who like to BBQ them.

But I don't actually sell them.  Because that would be illegal.  And immoral.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


Brian37
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FurryCatHerder

FurryCatHerder wrote:

blacklight915 wrote:
FurryCatHerder wrote:

Because it would be really nice if I could make you mow my lawn.

Where do you live?

Texas.

I live on a very large cat ranch where cats are specially bred for sale to Atheists who like to BBQ them.

But I don't actually sell them.  Because that would be illegal.  And immoral.

The difference is that if I hunted at your cat ranch, I wouldn't shoot my friend in the face like Cheney did.

I like what Luis Black said "Cheney turned a petting zoo into Auschwitz"

I'll give up bacon if you eat some kitten. Once you go furr, you always purr.

Barbecue kittens are yummy.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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FurryCatHerder

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Texas.

Sorry, too far away.

 

Brian37 wrote:

Once you go furr, you always purr.

Lololololol. That was a good one.

 


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blacklight915 wrote: That

blacklight915 wrote:

 

That makes sense. The alpha male in a group gets to have sex with whatever female he wants to. Sometimes, he the only male that is allowed to have sex with any females at all. The alpha female(s) in a group get access to the best resources in the alpha male's territory. The offspring of the alpha female(s) also get access to these best resources. So, those with the alpha/dominant status have the best chance of passing on their genes. Since the basic goal of every life form is to pass on its genes as much as possible, social life forms really want that dominant status.

Which, I suppose, makes it somewhat strange that I have such little desire to gain a dominant status. In fact, I do not wish to pass on my genes (have children) at all. I would much rather pass on my knowledge and help care for the many children already born.

 

Nature makes variety as well. Too much of either extreme would be bad for the species overall. There are examples in nature of insects that go on suicide missions to protect the colony:

http://www.physorg.com/news141485303.html

Genetics if much more complicated than just the goal of every individual is to pass on their own genes. Sounds like your more of a meme passer than a gene passer. And things may change when you get older.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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blacklight915

blacklight915 wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Texas.

Sorry, too far away.

From where?!?

Texas is too far away from Texas.

It takes me longer to =leave= Texas than to get to many places I've been to =outside= of Texas.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


blacklight915
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FurryCatHerder wrote:From

FurryCatHerder wrote:

From where?!?

North Carolina. It takes about 7 hours of driving just to get to Atlanta from where I live...

 

EXC wrote:

 

Nature makes variety as well. Too much of either extreme would be bad for the species overall. There are examples in nature of insects that go on suicide missions to protect the colony:

http://www.physorg.com/news141485303.html

That makes sense. Since there's generally only one alpha male and female, it would be logical for at least some members of the group to not want these positions...

 

EXC wrote:

Genetics if much more complicated than just the goal of every individual is to pass on their own genes. Sounds like your more of a meme passer than a gene passer. And things may change when you get older.

True. Of course, the real issue comes not from having children, but from not being able to care and provide for them, correct?

 

 


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blacklight915

blacklight915 wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

From where?!?

North Carolina. It takes about 7 hours of driving just to get to Atlanta from where I live...

Nice state.  I've wanted to live there a few times, but never have.  I did spend two years in South Carolina, but I don't remember much of it.

blacklight915 wrote:
EXC wrote:
Genetics if much more complicated than just the goal of every individual is to pass on their own genes. Sounds like your more of a meme passer than a gene passer. And things may change when you get older.
True. Of course, the real issue comes not from having children, but from not being able to care and provide for them, correct?

For Homo Sapient (hi!), that's the case, but that's because we have an =extremely= long time between birth and sexual maturity.  But there are species where "Spray and Pray" is the approach -- spew out a bazillion eggs and a bazillion sperm, let them fertilize "wherever" and hope it all works out.  Which does seem to work for those species.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."