Noony vs Furry, an invitation to PROBLEM SOLVING.

Brian37
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Noony vs Furry, an invitation to PROBLEM SOLVING.

Now, both of you have had me blast both of you. I will NOT post in this thread and consider it ONE ON ONE.  I may start another peanut gallery thread. But this one is between the two of you.

But keep this in mind. I hear constantly in the news how both sides want peace. And I am sure there are PLENTY in both camps who do.

However, it seems that it is a peace based on all or nothing and the submission of the other.

My postulation TO BOTH SIDES, is that neither wants to budge because of history of tradition and RELIGION.

"Just follow me" seems to be what the other side says will solve all the problems, which WONT happen.

So how DO each of you think this problem can be solved without the baggage of the past? Neither side can undo what has been done. Neither can get rid of the other.

I would like to think BOTH of you know ultimately no matter how much each side in this conflict disagrees, that ultimately we are still dealing with humans.

So without HE SAID SHE SAID, and with out "MINE" or "THEY STARTED IT"

What would each of you do if you could have the power to end this conflict right now?

I want each of you to talk as humans, not labels. As if BOTH of you were trying to arbitrate a fight between co-workers or friends or family members.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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I'm not the least bit

I'm not the least bit interested in having any sort of debate with Nony.  He's a f*cking bigot, and in my experience the best way to deal with someone who's that much of a bigot is let them rant and rave and show how much of a bigot they are.

His other issue is that he's grossly uneducated on a host of topics and there's no point in my trying to educate him -- I don't run an anti-Israel hate group / web-site / blog / whatever and that means anything I say is going to be disbelieved just because I don't hate Jews, Israel, and anyone else he happens to hate.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:I'm not

FurryCatHerder wrote:

I'm not the least bit interested in having any sort of debate with Nony.  He's a f*cking bigot, and in my experience the best way to deal with someone who's that much of a bigot is let them rant and rave and show how much of a bigot they are.

His other issue is that he's grossly uneducated on a host of topics and there's no point in my trying to educate him -- I don't run an anti-Israel hate group / web-site / blog / whatever and that means anything I say is going to be disbelieved just because I don't hate Jews, Israel, and anyone else he happens to hate.

I know I said I would NOT comment in this thread, but since YOU wont even get it off the ground, you are NOT showing me, or him any compassion which is giving him the fuel he needs to maintain his position.

IF IF IF IF IF he is as wrong as you say, then show him better than you think their side has shown you.

I'm not giving you a pass either because I DO think you both are stuck in an arbitrary history when WE are all the same species.

If it takes me being a DICK to both of you to get along, I'd love that. That would be one less Jew/Palestinian supporter at each other's throats. One less distraction for America away from the fact that China is ripping us off economically and loving the fact that you and they cost us money paying attention to your childish beef.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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FurryCatHerder wrote:I'm not

FurryCatHerder wrote:

I'm not the least bit interested in having any sort of debate with Nony.  He's a f*cking bigot, and in my experience the best way to deal with someone who's that much of a bigot is let them rant and rave and show how much of a bigot they are.

His other issue is that he's grossly uneducated on a host of topics and there's no point in my trying to educate him -- I don't run an anti-Israel hate group / web-site / blog / whatever and that means anything I say is going to be disbelieved just because I don't hate Jews, Israel, and anyone else he happens to hate.

Wouldn't you like to get fewer people in that region to aim guns, rockets and missiles at Israel? Israel's ignoring them, or beating the shit out of them, doesn't seem to work, anymore than their blind lines in the sand.

WHERE he went wrong is where I think you went wrong too.

"History starts here". NO, evolution always has been, and you defend your side as fervently as he does his. If both sides want peace, then why the hell is it about labels?

I think he is a bigot. I do not think you are. But you ARE stuck in as much a tribal past as the side he defends.

Now this thread is for each of you to say without bringing up the past.

"Here is what I would like to see happen" and "What would it take to end this without bringing up the past"

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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FurryCatHerder wrote:I'm not

FurryCatHerder wrote:

I'm not the least bit interested in having any sort of debate with Nony.  He's a f*cking bigot, and in my experience the best way to deal with someone who's that much of a bigot is let them rant and rave and show how much of a bigot they are.

His other issue is that he's grossly uneducated on a host of topics and there's no point in my trying to educate him -- I don't run an anti-Israel hate group / web-site / blog / whatever and that means anything I say is going to be disbelieved just because I don't hate Jews, Israel, and anyone else he happens to hate.

I'm solidly on Furry's side of this debate.   Anony is an anti-semitic extremely biased invidual.   I question him portraying himself as an atheist with his intense loyalty to the Muslim viewpoint on the jews.

He is as radical for Islam as Osama was.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Brian37 wrote:I think he is

Brian37 wrote:

I think he is a bigot. I do not think you are. But you ARE stuck in as much a tribal past as the side he defends.

It's not about "tribes".

It's about the fact that the jewish people for eons have existed as a minority group everywhere where they have been marginalized, demonized, and slaughtered because they could not defend themselves against the majority.   Now they have taken their own little piece of turf where they stand and say they will no longer be victims, and they will fuck you up if you mess with them.

That's the only place they have.   Palestinians are no ethnic group among other arabs.   They're just fucking arabs like all the others.   Go to Jordan, go to Syria, go anywhere and be in, oh I don't know, another fucking muslim country.

The Jews can't go to some other jewish country now can they?  That's it.

Fuck the Palestinians.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Watcher wrote:FurryCatHerder

Watcher wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

I'm not the least bit interested in having any sort of debate with Nony.  He's a f*cking bigot, and in my experience the best way to deal with someone who's that much of a bigot is let them rant and rave and show how much of a bigot they are.

His other issue is that he's grossly uneducated on a host of topics and there's no point in my trying to educate him -- I don't run an anti-Israel hate group / web-site / blog / whatever and that means anything I say is going to be disbelieved just because I don't hate Jews, Israel, and anyone else he happens to hate.

I'm on solidly on Furry's side of this debate.   Anony is an anti-semitic extremely biased invidual.   I question him portraying himself as an atheist with his intense loyalty to the Muslim viewpoint on the jews.

He is as radical for Islam as Osama was.

I agree he IS. He is not a Muslim, but an atheist who falls for the "virtue of the oppressed" and "they stole my land".

But even with Furry claiming that I would make a great Jew, I wont give her a pass either.

We are STILL talking about humans ON BOTH SIDES who think that the past is more important than peace and whatever "peace" each one wants is not based upon advise and consent, but the same stupid evolutionary trait of being the alpha male. Neither side will have peace unless they are on top. So there cannot be consensus through oversight and scrutiny.

BOTH sides want peace as long as the other takes their place at the back of the buss.

Furry likes me as an uncle tom and her country would not elect me PM if I dismissed the Jewish god as existing. Muslims in Palestine AT BEST, may accept some back of the bus attitude where they would agree not to harm non Muslims, as long as they "Know their place" BUT that is not the majority.

Even in the states there is a false perception that the Constitution was ripped out of the bible, despite the fact that the founders KNEW that mixing government and religion would create the very divisions that Palestine and Israel still face.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:We are STILL

Brian37 wrote:

We are STILL talking about humans ON BOTH SIDES who think that the past is more important than peace and whatever "peace" each one wants is not based upon advise and consent, but the same stupid evolutionary trait of being the alpha male. Neither side will have peace unless they are on top. So there cannot be consensus through oversight and scrutiny.

It's not the past, why are you talking about the past?

It's about the Jews, in the present day, not the past, having one whole country where they are not a minority, where they are not marginalized, demonized, slaughtered, etc.   The present.

I've examined the issue.   And the Palestinians are stuck up, unreasonable, extremists.   They're nothing but hate and spite.

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Quote:t's about the fact

Quote:
t's about the fact that the jewish people for eons have existed as a minority group everywhere where they have been marginalized, demonized, and slaughtered because they could not defend themselves against the majority.   Now they have taken their own little piece of turf where they stand and say they will no longer be victims, and they will fuck you up if you mess with them.

SHELF LIFE god damn it!

If she accepts she is the same part of the species as I am, and Noony, I don't think she or Noony that stupid to should say that the other  part of a separate species, then there has to be a point where the past is the past.

AGAIN, blacks and gays and Native Americans have been hurt too. Do they deserve entire countries because of what humanity wrongfully did to them? If a Muslim nation wont be a cure all to the planet, why would a Jewish state or Christian state be one?

AND what makes you think Muslims in the east don't think the same of us in the west? How did America react to the Mosque being built near Ground Zero?

This is a HUMAN issue, not a label issue. Muslims fight because they think they are victims to history. Jews fight because they think they are victims to history. All I see in this pissing contest are humans dying.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Quote:The Jews can't go to

Quote:
The Jews can't go to some other jewish country now can they?

And we are atheists. Should we have  "godless state" too? Where our politicians swear an oath to "fuck god'?

I bet both Jews and Muslims would have a problem with that.

Muslims and Jews and every fucking human will not have peace until our governments are built on common law, not common dogma, be it political dogma or religious dogma.

The only state our species has is our common human condition. Labels fuck everything up when they are the priority when our human condition gets lost in that.

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Brian37 wrote:Quote:t's

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
t's about the fact that the jewish people for eons have existed as a minority group everywhere where they have been marginalized, demonized, and slaughtered because they could not defend themselves against the majority.   Now they have taken their own little piece of turf where they stand and say they will no longer be victims, and they will fuck you up if you mess with them.

SHELF LIFE god damn it!

If she accepts she is the same part of the species as I am, and Noony, I don't think she or Noony that stupid to should say that the other  part of a separate species, then there has to be a point where the past is the past.

AGAIN, blacks and gays and Native Americans have been hurt too. Do they deserve entire countries because of what humanity wrongfully did to them? If a Muslim nation wont be a cure all to the planet, why would a Jewish state or Christian state be one?

AND what makes you think Muslims in the east don't think the same of us in the west? How did America react to the Mosque being built near Ground Zero?

This is a HUMAN issue, not a label issue. Muslims fight because they think they are victims to history. Jews fight because they think they are victims to history. All I see in this pissing contest are humans dying.

It's called a culture.   Yeah we're all the same species, but we don't all share the same values, traditions, etc., etc.   The Jewish culture deserves it's own place where it is not preyed upon by other cultures.

How did America respond to Muslims building a mosque near ground zero?

America responded by letting them build the fucking mosque.  It's built.   Go look at it.  Whoo.   Poor oppressed muslims.

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Brian37 wrote:And we are

Brian37 wrote:

And we are atheists. Should we have  "godless state" too? Where our politicians swear an oath to "fuck god'?

I bet both Jews and Muslims would have a problem with that.

Muslims and Jews and every fucking human will not have peace until our governments are built on common law, not common dogma, be it political dogma or religious dogma.

The only state our species has is our common human condition. Labels fuck everything up when they are the priority when our human condition gets lost in that.

Atheists aren't a culture.  They don't have traditions, a shared past, nothing.  Nothing.

Stupid comparison.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Brian37 wrote:Quote:t's

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
t's about the fact that the jewish people for eons have existed as a minority group everywhere where they have been marginalized, demonized, and slaughtered because they could not defend themselves against the majority.   Now they have taken their own little piece of turf where they stand and say they will no longer be victims, and they will fuck you up if you mess with them.

SHELF LIFE god damn it!

If she accepts she is the same part of the species as I am, and Noony, I don't think she or Noony that stupid to should say that the other  part of a separate species, then there has to be a point where the past is the past.

AGAIN, blacks and gays and Native Americans have been hurt too. Do they deserve entire countries because of what humanity wrongfully did to them? If a Muslim nation wont be a cure all to the planet, why would a Jewish state or Christian state be one?

"Gays" aren't, and never have been, a nation.  Native Americans, as well as other native peoples, have been given "autonomous regions" in most civilized countries, so they aren't a very good example either.

That the Jewish people have been run out of country after country is an historical FACT.  That Rome conquered Judea in 135CE, murdering a million Jews in the 100 years or so prior, enslaving countless others, then renaming Judea to Syria-Palestina to try and eradicate the Jewish people, is likewise a FACT. 

Brian37 wrote:
This is a HUMAN issue, not a label issue. Muslims fight because they think they are victims to history. Jews fight because they think they are victims to history. All I see in this pissing contest are humans dying.

"Muslim" isn't a =people=.

Maybe it's because you're an Atheist, or maybe it's because you were raised Catholic, or maybe it's because you just don't know much about Jews.

The Jewish people are a =nation=.  We're not just a religion.  We don't just have some god-concept, we have common family bonds.  I've had more encounters where Jews run into each other and discover they are related than in any other group of people I've ever met.  I found out that my ex's family is very likely related to a Jewish couple that I just happened to meet at my synagogue, so it doesn't just happen to "other people", it's happened in my own family as well.

When I was growing up I was told about my grandparents being told to leave Brazil in 1938 on account of the NAZIs.  This didn't make any sense at all until I found out that my grandmother was a Jew.  The time in 1938 they were told to leave?  Right after Krystalnacht.  As soon as they could get exit papers for my father and his sister (both born in Brazil), they left for Canada, by way of the U.S.

Saying that we don't deserve a "homeland" is saying that we have to leave ourselves at the mercy of whatever country we happen to live in that decides they want to take another whack and murdering all of us, and that's just not acceptable.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Was there a Jewish state a

Was there a Jewish state a million years ago? Will there be a Jewish state 1 million years from now? Was there an atheist state 1 million years ago? Will there be an atheist state 1 million years from now? Was there a Muslim state a million years ago? Will there be a Muslim state 1 million years from now?

Name me one political party or religion that was around before we existed that will be around after we go extinct. If we are all going to die, which we will, our condition NOT our labels, should help us all extend our finite ride.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Was there a

Brian37 wrote:

Was there a Jewish state a million years ago? Will there be a Jewish state 1 million years from now? Was there an atheist state 1 million years ago? Will there be an atheist state 1 million years from now? Was there a Muslim state a million years ago? Will there be a Muslim state 1 million years from now?

Name me one political party or religion that was around before we existed that will be around after we go extinct. If we are all going to die, which we will, our condition NOT our labels, should help us all extend our finite ride.

So, you wouldn't mind it if people tried, over and over and over again, to murder you and your entire family?

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Unfortunately, the Israelis

Unfortunately, the Israelis took all that persecution and turned it to Palestinians and Arabs.

They won't even give them basic rights. Obama lost a lot of my support when he said that he'll veto any attempt from Palestinians to get basic rights.

 

 

 


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Unfortunately, the Israelis took all that persecution and turned it to Palestinians and Arabs.

They won't even give them basic rights. Obama lost a lot of my support when he said that he'll veto any attempt from Palestinians to get basic rights.

They even get all upset when there is mention of the tyrannical, jewish military dictatorship in the West Bank.

Calling antisemitism as a defensive tactic started with Josephus. Anyone who refused the believe the absurd claims of Jews, no matter how ridiculous, was declared to hate Judeans solely because they were Jews. Nothing has changed in nineteen hundred years. The same riff is still heard but louder and in mass media with teary but righteous eyes. 

Every Jew has to be believed in everything they say as refusal to believe is hatred.

So what is the point of discussing when disagreement can only be hatred. Note that was her first reaction. It is the way they play the game.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

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www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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FurryCatHerder wrote:
..."Gays" aren't, and never have been, a nation.  Native Americans, as well as other native peoples, have been given "autonomous regions" in most civilized countries, so they aren't a very good example either.

That the Jewish people have been run out of country after country is an historical FACT.  That Rome conquered Judea in 135CE, murdering a million Jews in the 100 years or so prior, enslaving countless others, then renaming Judea to Syria-Palestina to try and eradicate the Jewish people, is likewise a FACT.

If it were a fact evidence could be produced for that jewish myth. The fact is surviving mentions of the event from ancient times all refer to Jerusalem only. In fact one of the surviving mentions is a debunking of the myth saying it was all of Judea.

And as all educated people know the name was Palestine at least since the mid 5th c. BC because that is what Herodotus was told was its name.

Quote:
"Muslim" isn't a =people=.

True. But all educated people know zionists invented the claim of a jewish people. Herrnvolk, Chosenites. What is the difference? For the record, the body of believers is called the Umma. Odd they do not accept fake muslims but Jews accept fake jews.

Quote:
Maybe it's because you're an Atheist, or maybe it's because you were raised Catholic, or maybe it's because you just don't know much about Jews.

Maybe Professor Schlomo Sand doesn't know must about Jews.

Quote:
The Jewish people are a =nation=.  We're not just a religion.

Only since the idea of nation was invented. Quite impossible before that.

Quote:
We don't just have some god-concept, we have common family bonds.  I've had more encounters where Jews run into each other and discover they are related than in any other group of people I've ever met.  I found out that my ex's family is very likely related to a Jewish couple that I just happened to meet at my synagogue, so it doesn't just happen to "other people", it's happened in my own family as well.

Yet the Torah says one can only be a Jew by being born of a Jewish woman. Although it is silent on conversions it is mentioned obliquely in Judges. The idea of being born a Jew is purely a religious precept which an atheist cannot possibly hold.

All the inbreeding explains why consanquinal birth defects are so common.

Quote:
When I was growing up I was told about my grandparents being told to leave Brazil in 1938 on account of the NAZIs.  This didn't make any sense at all until I found out that my grandmother was a Jew.  The time in 1938 they were told to leave?  Right after Krystalnacht.  As soon as they could get exit papers for my father and his sister (both born in Brazil), they left for Canada, by way of the U.S.

Saying that we don't deserve a "homeland" is saying that we have to leave ourselves at the mercy of whatever country we happen to live in that decides they want to take another whack and murdering all of us, and that's just not acceptable.

Back to demanding a Vaterland! It reminds me of Netanyahu's speech during if first term when he said, literally, Israel needed Lebensraum nach Osten. Then there was Dr. Deborah Lipstadt titling her book, Mein Kampf. They throw it in your face and then call it antisemitism when you acknowledge it for what it is.

 

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Watcher wrote:
...

I'm solidly on Furry's side of this debate.   Anony is an anti-semitic extremely biased invidual.   I question him portraying himself as an atheist with his intense loyalty to the Muslim viewpoint on the jews.

He is as radical for Islam as Osama was.

The truth cannot be antisemitic.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Unfortunately, the Israelis took all that persecution and turned it to Palestinians and Arabs.

They won't even give them basic rights. Obama lost a lot of my support when he said that he'll veto any attempt from Palestinians to get basic rights.

They even get all upset when there is mention of the tyrannical, jewish military dictatorship in the West Bank.

Calling antisemitism as a defensive tactic started with Josephus. Anyone who refused the believe the absurd claims of Jews, no matter how ridiculous, was declared to hate Judeans solely because they were Jews. Nothing has changed in nineteen hundred years. The same riff is still heard but louder and in mass media with teary but righteous eyes. 

Every Jew has to be believed in everything they say as refusal to believe is hatred.

So what is the point of discussing when disagreement can only be hatred. Note that was her first reaction. It is the way they play the game.

 

 

Unfortunatly, anti-semitism does exist. There is indeed a difference between critisizing Israel and being anti-sematic, but that doesn't mean that anti-semitism doesn't exist, and you reek of it.

 

 

 


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Watcher wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
I think he is a bigot. I do not think you are. But you ARE stuck in as much a tribal past as the side he defends.

It's not about "tribes".

It's about the fact that the jewish people for eons have existed as a minority group everywhere

Excuse me but the Judeans were a majority in Judea from whence their name. Agreed they were an occupying military force in Samaria, Iodumaea and the Galilee but it was their choice to conquer them and to impose the rituals and taboos of the Yahweh cult on them. The Galileans aided the Romans, no surprise there. Jews raided Galileans for supplies and conscripting youth to fight for them. Not a good start in the real world.

Considering that Jews were only Judeans and giving the size of the city-state of Judea one would never expect them to be a majority any place. On what possible rational grounds would you expect so few people to become a significant number any place else?

Even with all of their conversion efforts they were only marginally successful having been out done by their Galilean neighbors with their Jesus. They gave up conversion efforts in the 7th c. in the face of Islam. Instead the Jews chose to side with Islam and fight along side it in conquest.

Nor is it reasonable to claim all of mandate Palestine when that is greater than they ever held in real history. Nor should prior military conquest of some surrounding territories be a basis for present day claims.

Of course we know the zionists played upon the general ignorance of the population in those days to make land claims far beyond any historical basis.Either that or they were ignorant twits themselves. I generally assume the latter.

Quote:
where they have been marginalized, demonized, and slaughtered because they could not defend themselves against the majority.   Now they have taken their own little piece of turf where they stand and say they will no longer be victims, and they will fuck you up if you mess with them.

But they were always treated better than members of any other religion by both the Christian and Muslim countries. And if you don't think so you can ask the next Druid or Odinite  you meet for their opinion. You can even ask an Albagensian if you like to see that Jews were treated better than some Christian groups. While on this subject, when Spain was finally unified and the Muslims expelled the Jews were given the option of staying on condition of conversion OR leaving with the Muslims they came with.

How is it that people who have always refused to socialize, who insisted upon living apart are always whining about people always never accepting them and always being considered outsiders?

But while on the subject, it is not like anyone forced them to remain Jews. Conversion was always an option and would have solved the entire problem. I find it incredible that self-proclaimed atheists who have a rather low opinion of any kind of believer decline to add the folly of retaining a particular, primitive religion as though it were something special. Would you have the same concern for the Druids should they have survived but treated like Jews? Should the ancient world have invented separation of church and state 2000 years early?

Why is it atheists sort of applaud when snake handling Christians die of snake bites but when adherents to Judaism get the consequences of their stupid beliefs it elicits some kind of compassion? They are just stupid people getting the consequences of following a stupid religion. Switching religions would have solved the problem at any time.

Conversion to Christianity and Islam is what most Judean did. It worked for them until the Europeans started showing up with malice in their hearts.

Just what do you propose in European culture that did not tolerate other religions in general but which made a single exception of Jews should have done differently? The priests and the nobility were constantly preaching tolerance and condemning the "Christ killer" belief among the peasants. Every expulsion had a specific cause which was rational and reasonable within the context of the time it happened. The expulsion from Spain was to send them back to North Africa where they came from with the Moors they came with usually as separate jewish armies. The Moors were not given the option to convert and stay. The Jews were. The Inquisition was about false conversions. People thought it mattered in those days.

Quote:
That's the only place they have.   Palestinians are no ethnic group among other arabs.   They're just fucking arabs like all the others.   Go to Jordan, go to Syria, go anywhere and be in, oh I don't know, another fucking muslim country.

If that is true could you explain how Herodotus was able to discuss the Palestinians separately from the Arabs? That is mid 5th c. BC, nearly four centuries before the world heard of any Judeans. A classical education was all but abandoned even for the upper class in Europe about the time Zionism reared its ugly head so the antiquity of the Palestinians was never raised as an issue.

Quote:
The Jews can't go to some other jewish country now can they?  That's it.

In the 19th c. the Latter Day Saints tried that. The answer was no. And they were the  most persecuted non-native religious group in US history. For the record Catholics were second worst and Jews don't even get an honorable mention. They were just another immigrant group treated no differently from the Italians, Poles, Irish and other groups. Despite all the mythology that is a fact.

Quote:
Fuck the Palestinians.

So  tell me why the Palestinians should be the whipping boy of the Jews?

Tell me why the private, deeded property of Palestinians even IF they were from Arabia should be stolen by Jews. For the sins of Europeans? Please explain in detail.

What other religion would you support in the same manner? Should not the Latter Day Saints get nation of Utah? The Presbyterians the Nation of Alabama? The Catholics Italy? Are you really in favor of Jews exhibiting the same religious tolerance as Iran?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Brian37 wrote:
I agree he IS. He is not a Muslim, but an atheist who falls for the "virtue of the oppressed" and "they stole my land".


I have raised this issue before and you have refused to reply. Please address the issue.

Consider the land theft started with the absentee owners laws in 1949 -- note this is after the 1948 war. Consider those who tried not to be absent, to return to their property, were killed either as infilitraters or for violating curfew. Notice these are two different reasons. The former applies to those trying to return from other countries. The latter applies to those trying to leave the ghettos in which Jews forced them to live. I would like you to address both groups.

What is that but theft under color of law? The very fact of the existence of the absentee owners laws establishes the fact of Palestinian ownership.

I would also like you to address how this is different from Jewish claims against Germany, Poland, Hungary et al. for lost property related to WWII.

I further hold if the property claims of Jews are legitimate then the Palestinians claims are equally legitimate. It is further a principle of law that a case is open from the time it is raised and not subject to any statute of limitations after being raised. The issue of Palestinian property rights was raised in 1949 and is still open.

Where does your lovey dovey, we are the world crap fit into the facts?

NOTE! This has no relation whatsoever to the expelled/ran away fictitious debate.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Brian37 wrote:
Wouldn't you like to get fewer people in that region to aim guns, rockets and missiles at Israel? Israel's ignoring them, or beating the shit out of them, doesn't seem to work, anymore than their blind lines in the sand.

WHERE he went wrong is where I think you went wrong too.

"History starts here".

...

I am also getting more than a bit pissed at your constant insistence that I start at some arbitrary point in history. (Don't bother trying to push me. The pissed part isn't really true.)

Unlike everyone else including you I start at the earliest possible time in history, the mid 5th c. and work forward with every fact and major event on this subject from then to modern times.

Just where would you like to start? With "in the beginning"?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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FurryCatHerder wrote:

I'm not the least bit interested in having any sort of debate with Nony.  He's a f*cking bigot, and in my experience the best way to deal with someone who's that much of a bigot is let them rant and rave and show how much of a bigot they are.

His other issue is that he's grossly uneducated on a host of topics and there's no point in my trying to educate him -- I don't run an anti-Israel hate group / web-site / blog / whatever and that means anything I say is going to be disbelieved just because I don't hate Jews, Israel, and anyone else he happens to hate.

www.giwersworld.org/ancient-history/hate-jews.phtml 

It is so easy to hate the Jews
by Matt Giwer, © 2011 [Mar]

A funny thing happened to me on the way to the Forum. For the first time I read the first book of Against Apion by Flavius Josephus for its own sake rather than trying to figure out what Apion had written. I had learned the original work by Apion was lost and was only known through the "rebuttal" by Josephus.

The book itself is wordy and the author not inclined to simple declarative sentences which would make clear quotes for each of my points below. Until I find a way to do that please use the above link and text searching.

 

Upon reading it for its own sake I realized I was reading the first historical allegation of antisemitism, literally hatred of the Jews because they are Jews or because they are envied. Unless this was invented by Josephus it was part of the Judean culture in his time making it even older than Against Apion.

Historically this is literally incredible. There is nothing in any of the writings of Josephus or the Septuagint indicating any animosity against Judeans that was different from against any other group. Certainly the Galileans and Samaritans were far from fond of the Judeans as they had been conquered by the Judeans and the Judean Yahweh cult forced upon them.

I have always found the claims by Jews that they are hated to be little more than group paranoia all through history including to this day. In Christian Europe Christians treated Jews better than members of any other religion. In fact Christians treated Jews better than they treated other Christians. All the "they hate us the most" are truly mental contortions so silly that they do not deserve to be called intellectual contortions.

Similarly Jews were named by Islam along with Christians as the only protected religions, their members being, like Muslims, peoples of the Book. Sorry but they are not any kind of survivors except in their own minds and mythology. In both the Christian and Muslim worlds they were the only religion given any protection at all. Were they not members of a protected religion Jews would be as scarce as Druids.

We even find this "antisemitism" claim about the US. In fact the experience of the wave of Jewish immigrants in the 1890s was no different from that of the Irish or Italians. It lasted no longer than for the Irish and Italians. They assimilated as well as the Irish and Italians. Yet we still hear about it as though it was all part of some millennia old phenomenon, as though it were the same as the whinings of Josephus. Total nonsense of course. What is the same as is not special.

As this is the oldest known claim of hate we can examine the validity of the reasons. As a side benefit we also have this ridiculous claim of hate to an equally absurd claim of envy of Jews. Envy them because they are rich and smart? Like stereotypes much?

What we find in this book is Josephus attempting to invent the fact that the Jews were an ancient people. Ancient in this case meaning among the oldest if not the oldest people in the world. As old or older than the people of ancient Ur. This was a prized status in ancient times, to be an elder people rather than newcomers.

Perhaps unsurprisingly Jews insist to this day they existed before there is any evidence of them in either history or the archaeological record. It appears to be some kind of religious compulsion.

From context it appears no one believed the Judeans were ancient. Josephus addresses observations which are still current today such as there is no mention of any Jews or Judeans in the literature of any other people. He does not claim there is mention rather offers the illogical argument that the absence of mention is meaningless offering the absence of mention of the Greeks in the writings of the Judeans as of the same value raising his own people to the stature of the Greeks.

It should go without saying that 2000 years ago, before the massive loss of literature through the Dark Ages, there was no evidence back then any more than has survived to today. With as many as 100 times as many important records not one person including Josephus can find a single mention of Jews or Judeans by anyone in any record prior to Roman times.

In fact it appears the major argument against the Judeans being an ancient people is the same as it is today. There is no mention of them in any other literature but their own Septuagint. Clearly no one at the time took the Septuagint as a factual collection.

Lets look at the specifics.

 

You hate the Jews if you refuse to believe the Jews had a 5000 year history in the 1st c. AD, that is a 7000 year history today.

In the time of Josephus the educated had a rather good idea of how old was civilization, on the order of 4000 years at most just about as it is thought today. This was independent of any mythology which the educated did not consider any more than we consider it. Josephus was claiming a history at least as old if not older than what was known at the time. Every educated person of his day knew this was nonsense just as today we know it is nonsense.

Today we know even better Josephus was full of it. In fact it is only a few people on the intellectual level of creationists who hold Judaism is older than 1400 years BC and the majority believers put it no older than 600 BC as a form of Judaism which would be recognizable as such. Look how many Jews hate Jews today.

Utnapishtim or Atrahasis in the Gilgamesh saga was really Noah.

As with creationism Noah and his flood are considered real only by a minority rednecks from either the backwoods of the American South or from Brooklyn or the West Bank of Palestine via Brooklyn. But if you not only do not believe it but also you decline to believe Noah is mentioned under a different name in the Gilgamesh epic then you hate Jews.

It would also have been quite clear to the Romans that the Noah story is fiction for mostly the same reasons we know it is today.

The Jews were the Hyksos who conquered and ruled Egypt for a century.

This one is positively incredible and is totally contrary to everything known today from both archaeology and history but also apparently known to the ancients from their own records. Here again we only have modern mouth-breathers trying to equate Exodus with the expulsion of the Hyksos by the Egyptians.

On one hand you have to be an idiot to believe it but refusal to believe it means you hate the Jews.

Note here the Hyksos idea is contrary to Exodus. Clearly Josephus did not take the Exodus story seriously. He did not believe it was true else he could not make this contrary claim. Is this what is meant by a self-hating Jew?

 

If you do not believe that Jerusalem in the 1st c. AD was so magnificent a city it was the envy of the Egyptians you only refuse to believe it because of your irrational hatred of the Jews.

Here is where Josephus introduces an explanation for this hatred. Seems he was promoting the whacked out idea that Egyptians envied the Hyksos, aka Jews, for their magnificent city of Jerusalem and the enormous prosperity of Judea without the assistance of the Egyptians.

Remember after the 130 revolt Rome rebuilt Jerusalem. They added things like sanitation. They raised it to Roman standards. Yet Josephus would have us believe it was the envy of the Egyptians. The only question of interest is if he was dumb enough to believe it himself.

Taken as a whole this book can be read as a petty rant about people who simply refused to believe the nonsense Jews wanted them to believe. And if they refuse to believe jewish nonsense then the only possible explanation is that they refuse what Jews say because they hate Jews. Arbitrary, capricious, irrational hatred that at best stems from the base motive of envy. It is the same rant we get from Jews today.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Brian37 wrote:
...

My postulation TO BOTH SIDES, is that neither wants to budge because of history of tradition and RELIGION.

Exactly WHICH religious component do you want to discuss? I have challenged you more times than I can remember to justify this [b[absurd[/b] claim of a religious issue. You have refused to justify it.

Yet you want to discuss something that only you know about and which you refuse to share with the rest of us.

How do you imagine this is possible?

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Watcher wrote:
It's not the past, why are you talking about the past?

It's about the Jews, in the present day, not the past, having one whole country where they are not a minority, where they are not marginalized, demonized, slaughtered, etc.   The present.

I've examined the issue.   And the Palestinians are stuck up, unreasonable, extremists.   They're nothing but hate and spite.

If it is about the present day then it is about the jewish military dictatorship over the Palestinians.

If it is about the present day it is about deeded property rights of Palestinians to land in Israel.

If it is about the present day it is about on-going war crimes against the Palestinians.

Do you really want to talk about the present day?

It hardly matters. Everything zionists do is damnable.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Watcher wrote:
It's called a culture.   Yeah we're all the same species, but we don't all share the same values, traditions, etc., etc.   The Jewish culture deserves it's own place where it is not preyed upon by other cultures.

...

Are you still rambling on about that discredited jewish culture crap?

Independent of the religion there is no such thing. Do you really think Tunisian Jews do Russian circle dances singing Hava Negilah to the tune of Irving Berlin? Take away the religion and Jews have the culture of the place they life. Ulating Mizrahim, aka Sephardim, are a fact. They are followers of Judaism with an otherwise Arab culture.

Beyond that I have the opinion of an Israeli Attorney General and an Israeli judge that there is no such thing as a jewish single culture.

Anyone who reads the Israeli newspapers particularly in the last few months is fully aware of the clash of many different jewish cultures in Israel.

Or would you like to be the first to identify just what constitutes jewish culture absent religion? Please do so.

As Mr. Spock said, I am all ears.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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FurryCatHerder wrote:
So, you wouldn't mind it if people tried, over and over and over again, to murder you and your entire family?

You claim it is not about religion but about family. If religion has nothing to do with it why not simply have the whole family register as a more popular religion and end the nonsense?

But that possibility is out if religion matters.

And your rebbe will be out of a job which is all he cares about.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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The meaning of Nation

There several meanings for the word nation. In the matter of Jews they are deliberately conflated.

The old meaning is as in a common culture such as the Iriquois nation. The current meaning is nation as a single political unit with a single body politic. The biblical nation of Israel for example not the Malcolm X Nation of Islam.

As Jews live in many political nations they are not a nation in the modern political sense.

The old meaning of nation meaning nothing more than it does whan applied to related Indian tribes.

Neither meaning has anything to do with religion.

Pretending the old meaning implies the modern political meaning is at best ignorant and at worst deliberate lying.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Anti-Who(vian)?

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Unfortunately, the Israelis took all that persecution and turned it to Palestinians and Arabs.

They won't even give them basic rights. Obama lost a lot of my support when he said that he'll veto any attempt from Palestinians to get basic rights.

They even get all upset when there is mention of the tyrannical, jewish military dictatorship in the West Bank.

Calling antisemitism as a defensive tactic started with Josephus. Anyone who refused the believe the absurd claims of Jews, no matter how ridiculous, was declared to hate Judeans solely because they were Jews. Nothing has changed in nineteen hundred years. The same riff is still heard but louder and in mass media with teary but righteous eyes. 

Every Jew has to be believed in everything they say as refusal to believe is hatred.

So what is the point of discussing when disagreement can only be hatred. Note that was her first reaction. It is the way they play the game.

 

Unfortunatly, anti-semitism does exist. There is indeed a difference between critisizing Israel and being anti-sematic, but that doesn't mean that anti-semitism doesn't exist, and you reek of it.

As with Josephus the reply to even the most minor criticism is, You only criticize Israel because you hate Jews. It is a political tyranny hiding behind a religion.

That was the worst mistake Jews ever made, to saddle a religion with the necessities of a state. No one would have a problem recognizing Israel as a jewish state if it behaved like liberal New York Jews. Instead it behaves like any petty tyranny.

As for anti-semitism existing I have seen more anti-catholicism in my 65+ years in the US. And the latter was almost all during the 1960 election campaign. Then Goldwater was the Republican candidate in the next election with next to nothing about his ancestry as a Jew. Today we are seeing more about the Mormon candidates for the Republican ticket than we ever heard about Goldwater. People want to see Obama's birth certificate but no one asked about Goldwater's baptismal certificate.

Add to the list of antis add Latinos or their common name, Mexicans, and Muslims whom most Americans think are Black like Nation of Islam which is the root of the anti feeling. Lets see now anti-Italian is still around because they are all Mafia and the Poles really are dumb Pollacks. And the (Asian) Indians all smell of curry and no one has really forgiven the Japs.

On the list of antis in this world semitism is down in the noise in real examples although it is near the top of the list in whining about it. Consider all the surveys of antisemitism in the west are all self-reported without objective criteria. There is no requirment for a corroboration nor is there a definition as to what qualifies as antisemitism. In other words, they are bogus and worthless.

The only measure there is are the hate crimes laws. I can only address those under the US system. I have come across many prosecutions under them over the years for crimes against Blacks. I cannot recall a single one against Jews. The rules of prosecution in other countries such as Germany, France and Canada that I know of would not stand in a US court. Many countries criminalize free speech without requiring consequential actions to the speech as a condition of criminality. That is, inciting a riot is a crime but only if there is a riot. Attempting to incite a riot is not a crime. Saying something that some might consider incitement of others is a joke.

The bottom line is the world is replete with allegations of antisemitism but in fact almost no acts of antisemitism. And the few there are pale to insignificance against the anti other things which are a fact.

Consider if the LA police had treated Rodney Cohen like a King. Show me anything comparable and I will take antisemitism seriously.

 

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Unfortunatly, anti-semitism does exist. There is indeed a difference between critisizing Israel and being anti-sematic, but that doesn't mean that anti-semitism doesn't exist, and you reek of it.

All the previous said, you say I reek of it. Please give me two or three examples from what I have posted and tell me exactly why they are antisemitic.

If you cannot produce evidence of your allegation why are you making it?

I look forward to reading exactly what you consider to be antisemitic from my posts. Please feel free to quote so I do not have to correct any mis-statement of what I did post.

If this is too hard please simply respond to any future post of mine highlighting the specific statements you consider antisemitic and WHY you consider them to be antisemitic.

Do not get hung up on this challenge. You will not be the first and certainly not the last person unable to explain why any specific statment of mine is antisemitic.

I am also not the kind of person who feigns a demand for an apology. Simply not repeating an allegation which cannot be supported by evidence is sufficient.

To anyone else reading this, please feel free to take up the challenge.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:I'm not

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

I'm not reading a single word that you post, Anony.   I know your measure.  We've worked out our stances in the past half a dozen times.

Go fuck yourself you Islamic prick.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Watcher wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
I'm not reading a single word that you post, Anony.   I know your measure.  We've worked out our stances in the past half a dozen times.

Go fuck yourself you Islamic prick.

Another fake atheist who can't face reality.

As a rabbi once told me, it is too bad young Jews concentrate upon being non-Christians instead of on being Jews.

He had the right idea.

Too bad he had nothing to say about the irrational hatred of all Muslims among Jews when Muslims were the salvation of Jews against Christians from the inception of Islam.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Ok, well I did read a

Ok, well I did read a sentence, but I almost upchucked while I did.

How am I a fake atheist, Mohammed lover?

Did I not kneel at the correct location or at the right time?

Does the overlord authority tell me if I don't do A then I don't deserve to call myself an atheist?

Whatever.   Fuckface.

Seriously, go fuck yourself.   And let me impart a tad of cultural understanding in that statement.   When someone says that, it is supposed to be understood that you should depart from our general vicinity and go play with yourself.

But you're dumb ass that doesn't grasp that, so you just sit there like a retard, with no one telling you different.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Watcher wrote:

Ok, well I did read a sentence, but I almost upchucked while I did.

Acid reflux can be a symptom of serious medical problems. Consult your physician.

Quote:
How am I a fake atheist, Mohammed lover?

Did I not kneel at the correct location or at the right time?

Does the overlord authority tell me if I don't do A then I don't deserve to call myself an atheist?

Whatever.   Fuckface.

Seriously, go fuck yourself.   And let me impart a tad of cultural understanding in that statement.   When someone says that, it is supposed to be understood that you should depart from our general vicinity and go play with yourself.

But you're dumb ass that doesn't grasp that, so you just sit there like a retard, with no one telling you different.

You get so rude when challenged. You defend Jews who are nothing but a religion. It is the only religion you defend. Mere assertion that it is other than a religion never passes the giggle test.

Let me impart some cultural wisdom to you. When people post like that they are to grow up. Speaking of that, which peron in you avatar is you?

You defend murdering, thieving Europeans because they claim to be Jews. You are not a good person. Nor are you an atheist to be defending any religion even if it pretends to be other than a religion.

It is a transparent lie. Everyone sees through it including Jews.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Unfortunately, the Israelis took all that persecution and turned it to Palestinians and Arabs.

They won't even give them basic rights. Obama lost a lot of my support when he said that he'll veto any attempt from Palestinians to get basic rights.

 

 

 

I agree I think WW2 is still being milked way after the fact to set up taboos and entitlement. But again, I cannot support Palestine's rulers because they would NOT set up a secular government. A "democracy" in a pure sense is nothing but mob rule. I would have to have assurances from their leaders that the government they set up would be religion neutral and would protect minorities.

I think however because of Israel's own dogmatism in wanting a "Jewish state' instead of a secular state, the two have locked horns. I have sympathy for humans on BOTH sides that are merely victims of respective citizenry and birth. But I have NO sympathy for either side's rulers. I think BOTH Noony and Furry are perfect examples of missing the point and why this conflict continues.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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ex-minister
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awful thread

 What an awful thread that initially had promise. Good attempt Brian37. But I agree there is more hope with Furry. Anony appears to be unreachable.

 

Furry wrote:

So, you wouldn't mind it if people tried, over and over and over again, to murder you and your entire family?

It really feels like when I was a kid and race relationships in the U.S. were coming to a head. You had to whisper and be afraid anything you say will bring on an avalanche of hatred and violence.  So I will fool heartedly speak up.

Why did the Jews find themselves in this situation? Why can't they let this divisive religion go? Why do they use their religion to make them G*d chosen people? Doesn't that invite hatred? What if I say I am far better than you Furry and to prove it I have this silly book that says the Creator of the Universe chose me over you? You even single yourself out like your tribe is the only one that ever had genocide committed against it. That is so annoying especially since your silly book describes you doing the same to others. Unfortunately for them your genocide was more effective. But see here I go..."your genocide". You are just another human just like me. You didn't commit these atrocities, just your tribe did. Why should I blame and get angry at you? Do you hate the current generation of Germans because of Hitler? When blacks were up in arms and destroying and burning property when I was a kid, it was not my fault. I am white. Did that mean I was responsible for slavery and the subsequent decades of oppression? When a group of blacks beat me with a rubber hose and took my money as a kid, should I label all blacks with that? When a bully shoved & tormented me over many months should I hate the Polish because that was his heritage?

So historically how did the ==cousins== of the Jews come to terms with G-d's chosen? Well, the Arabs mirrored the arrogance of the Jews and wrote their own silly book saying their daddy was Abraham & G-d & that is was Ishmael not Isaac who was G*d's chosen. It is so fucking silly and both sides will continue it and invite more hatred and violence.  It is just as atheist say all along, religion is the cause of 99.9999% of all wars. If I was Jewish, I would stop identifying myself a Jew and say I am German, Polish, Russian or what have you, not out of embarrassment but because I know the suffering and idiocy it has caused.  It is as rational as saying I am a Druid because of I have a touch of English blood in me. I don't feel a need to carve out a piece of England for my Druid heritage. 

I think we kill the humans who do violence, forgetting labels. People should live where they were born and become one with the country of their birth, knowing it is simply arbitrary. We are homo sapiens, the rest doesn't matter. How much farther advanced would we be if humans didn't have such a need to ==glorify== themselves.

 

Furry,

You and I and Brian and Watcher and even Anony are family. You have red blood coursing through your veins just as we do and our DNA would almost perfectly match. Your picture doesn't look like a kin of Moses. Tell me now aren't you more European? Aren't our bloodlines much closer than yours to Moses? So what is the fucking point of being ready to die for something imaginary and over incredibly minute differences?

 

You should be looking like this if you were a child of Moses.

 

 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


ex-minister
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Safety In Number When You learn to divide

It's only water

In a stranger's tear

Looks are deceptive

But distinctions are clear

A foreign body

And a foreign mind

Never welcome

In the land of the blind

You may look like we do

Talk like we do

But you know how it is

 

You're not one of us

Not one of us

No you're not one of us

Not one of us

Not one of us

No you're not one of us

 

There's safety in numbers

When you learn to divide

How can we be in

If there is no outside

All shades of opinion

Feed an open mind

But your values are twisted

Let us help you unwind

You may look like we do

Talk like we do

-But you know how it is

 

You're not one of us

Not one of us

No you're not one of us

 

 

 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


Brian37
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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Watcher

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Watcher wrote:

Ok, well I did read a sentence, but I almost upchucked while I did.

Acid reflux can be a symptom of serious medical problems. Consult your physician.

Quote:
How am I a fake atheist, Mohammed lover?

Did I not kneel at the correct location or at the right time?

Does the overlord authority tell me if I don't do A then I don't deserve to call myself an atheist?

Whatever.   Fuckface.

Seriously, go fuck yourself.   And let me impart a tad of cultural understanding in that statement.   When someone says that, it is supposed to be understood that you should depart from our general vicinity and go play with yourself.

But you're dumb ass that doesn't grasp that, so you just sit there like a retard, with no one telling you different.

You get so rude when challenged. You defend Jews who are nothing but a religion. It is the only religion you defend. Mere assertion that it is other than a religion never passes the giggle test.

Let me impart some cultural wisdom to you. When people post like that they are to grow up. Speaking of that, which peron in you avatar is you?

You defend murdering, thieving Europeans because they claim to be Jews. You are not a good person. Nor are you an atheist to be defending any religion even if it pretends to be other than a religion.

It is a transparent lie. Everyone sees through it including Jews.

 

One man's freedom fighter is another man's murderer. You sure as hell are not going to get my support when lobbing rockets at Israel and blowing up busses. THAT is murder too. You are just as much a s selective asshole as Netenbombhoo. Dead is dead. Evolution doesn't give one fuck about "Jew" or "Palestinian" .

That conflict has been going on long before any of us were born. Dont you dare try to give us lessons on morality when you yourself play victim just as stupidly as "those people". I do wish Furry would get her head out of her ass as well and stop think land is divinely given. I wish Israel WOULD get that star off it's flag, It DOES look like a gang symbol. But between the two, Israel is much more in line with the west and the lesser of the two evils.  I am not happy with EITHER SIDE.

When you talk like a bloodthirsty prick you to me are no fucking better than those you accuse.

You are just another prick, another dickead dogmatist who's picked an arbitrary club to defend. You are nothing but a soccer hooligan.

You have no right to claim the moral high ground while rightfully on the one hand, pointing out the blind loyalty of Jews and supporters of Jews, while getting involved in the pissing contest yourself.

No nation, no politician, NO RELIGION, deserves taboo status. Human suffering has always existed in our evolution and NEITHER Jews or Arabs or Muslim Arabs have a right to a fucking monopoly to claim to have invented human suffering.

Your childish tribalism when you rail against her like that gives that side the fucking excuse they need to keep their "see look at that monster" "We have a right to defend ourselves".

Why don't you get your own head out of your ass and DO your part to NOT be part of the very tribalism you rightfully say no one is entitled to.

"Jews don't deserve blind support" DUH AND RIGHT, but you don't need to be a fucking bigot. AND if that is the right thing, then don't be a fucking hypocrite and not apply that to Muslims and Arabs as well.

LET ME REPEAT THIS TO BOTH OF YOU, NO ONE, no nation, no politician, no religion, not you, not me, not her, deserve taboo status. No human label invented human suffering. Human suffering is a PRODUCT OF EVOLUTION, not a fucking label. Until either of you get that you will BOTH be part of that conflict's needless continuation.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Brian37
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ex-minister wrote:It's only

ex-minister wrote:

It's only water

In a stranger's tear

Looks are deceptive

But distinctions are clear

A foreign body

And a foreign mind

Never welcome

In the land of the blind

You may look like we do

Talk like we do

But you know how it is

 

You're not one of us

Not one of us

No you're not one of us

Not one of us

Not one of us

No you're not one of us

 

There's safety in numbers

When you learn to divide

How can we be in

If there is no outside

All shades of opinion

Feed an open mind

But your values are twisted

Let us help you unwind

You may look like we do

Talk like we do

-But you know how it is

 

You're not one of us

Not one of us

No you're not one of us

 

 

 

Thanks Ex-Minister, nicely quoted lyrics and and apt blasting of "in group" "out group" alpha male mentality both sides suffer from.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Unfortunately, the Israelis took all that persecution and turned it to Palestinians and Arabs.

They won't even give them basic rights. Obama lost a lot of my support when he said that he'll veto any attempt from Palestinians to get basic rights.

I agree I think WW2 is still being milked way after the fact to set up taboos and entitlement. But again, I cannot support Palestine's rulers because they would NOT set up a secular government.

Israel does not have a secular government. What is your objection?

Quote:
A "democracy" in a pure sense is nothing but mob rule. I would have to have assurances from their leaders that the government they set up would be religion neutral and would protect minorities.

Would that not require Israel to do the same thing first? Israel's persecution of non-jewish citizens is well documented by Haaretz and the Jerusalem Post.

Quote:
I think however because of Israel's own dogmatism in wanting a "Jewish state' instead of a secular state, the two have locked horns. I have sympathy for humans on BOTH sides that are merely victims of respective citizenry and birth. But I have NO sympathy for either side's rulers. I think BOTH Noony and Furry are perfect examples of missing the point and why this conflict continues.

So in reality you agree Israel has a theocracy and do not trust Palestinians to be better than Jews even though they have demonstrated since 1994 that they are much more secular than Israel has ever been.

Is there any rational basis for you position which otherwise appears to be ignorant of the facts?

Israel does not what to be a Jewish state. It demands recognition as the jewish state it is. That is what its government has said.

Out of curiosity just how much of the news from Israel do you read a week and from which sources? I do wish a specific answer to that question. It will help calibrate your knowledge of the subject.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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ex-minister wrote:

 What an awful thread that initially had promise. Good attempt Brian37. But I agree there is more hope with Furry. Anony appears to be unreachable.

I am unreachable but ...

Quote:

Furry wrote:

So, you wouldn't mind it if people tried, over and over and over again, to murder you and your entire family?

It really feels like when I was a kid and race relationships in the U.S. were coming to a head. You had to whisper and be afraid anything you say will bring on an avalanche of hatred and violence.  So I will fool heartedly speak up.

Why did the Jews find themselves in this situation? Why can't they let this divisive religion go? Why do they use their religion to make them G*d chosen people? Doesn't that invite hatred? What if I say I am far better than you Furry and to prove it I have this silly book that says the Creator of the Universe chose me over you? You even single yourself out like your tribe is the only one that ever had genocide committed against it. That is so annoying especially since your silly book describes you doing the same to others. Unfortunately for them your genocide was more effective. But see here I go..."your genocide". You are just another human just like me. You didn't commit these atrocities, just your tribe did. Why should I blame and get angry at you? Do you hate the current generation of Germans because of Hitler? When blacks were up in arms and destroying and burning property when I was a kid, it was not my fault. I am white. Did that mean I was responsible for slavery and the subsequent decades of oppression? When a group of blacks beat me with a rubber hose and took my money as a kid, should I label all blacks with that? When a bully shoved & tormented me over many months should I hate the Polish because that was his heritage?

So historically how did the ==cousins== of the Jews come to terms with G-d's chosen? Well, the Arabs mirrored the arrogance of the Jews and wrote their own silly book saying their daddy was Abraham & G-d & that is was Ishmael not Isaac who was G*d's chosen. It is so fucking silly and both sides will continue it and invite more hatred and violence.  It is just as atheist say all along, religion is the cause of 99.9999% of all wars. If I was Jewish, I would stop identifying myself a Jew and say I am German, Polish, Russian or what have you, not out of embarrassment but because I know the suffering and idiocy it has caused.  It is as rational as saying I am a Druid because of I have a touch of English blood in me. I don't feel a need to carve out a piece of England for my Druid heritage. 

I think we kill the humans who do violence, forgetting labels. People should live where they were born and become one with the country of their birth, knowing it is simply arbitrary. We are homo sapiens, the rest doesn't matter. How much farther advanced would we be if humans didn't have such a need to ==glorify== themselves.

but you say the same things I have been saying in different words.

Beyond that it was only attempted genocide in the most recent case while Jews claim total success in their genocides. And Israelis are proud of it and teach it in their schools to children.

Quote:
Furry,

You and I and Brian and Watcher and even Anony are family. You have red blood coursing through your veins just as we do and our DNA would almost perfectly match. Your picture doesn't look like a kin of Moses. Tell me now aren't you more European? Aren't our bloodlines much closer than yours to Moses? So what is the fucking point of being ready to die for something imaginary and over incredibly minute differences?

You should be looking like this if you were a child of Moses.

Only those who adhere to the Torah, the Law, can be considered Jews by self-reference to the OT definition of who is a Jew.

"The Invention of the Jewish People" by Schlomo Sand was a best seller in Israel. Oddly the reality of the invention hasn't gotten through to most all of the participants here.
 

The premise of the book has never been refuted. There are only believers reciting their beliefs and damning anyone who disagrees as an antisemite. No matter how stupid the claim of a jew anyone who disagrees knows it is true but denies it because they hate Jews. I don't remember my son going through a phase like that but I have heard of other parents saying their kids did something like that around age 4.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Brian37
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ex-minister wrote: What an

ex-minister wrote:

 What an awful thread that initially had promise. Good attempt Brian37. But I agree there is more hope with Furry. Anony appears to be unreachable.

 

Furry wrote:

So, you wouldn't mind it if people tried, over and over and over again, to murder you and your entire family?

It really feels like when I was a kid and race relationships in the U.S. were coming to a head. You had to whisper and be afraid anything you say will bring on an avalanche of hatred and violence.  So I will fool heartedly speak up.

Why did the Jews find themselves in this situation? Why can't they let this divisive religion go? Why do they use their religion to make them G*d chosen people? Doesn't that invite hatred? What if I say I am far better than you Furry and to prove it I have this silly book that says the Creator of the Universe chose me over you? You even single yourself out like your tribe is the only one that ever had genocide committed against it. That is so annoying especially since your silly book describes you doing the same to others. Unfortunately for them your genocide was more effective. But see here I go..."your genocide". You are just another human just like me. You didn't commit these atrocities, just your tribe did. Why should I blame and get angry at you? Do you hate the current generation of Germans because of Hitler? When blacks were up in arms and destroying and burning property when I was a kid, it was not my fault. I am white. Did that mean I was responsible for slavery and the subsequent decades of oppression? When a group of blacks beat me with a rubber hose and took my money as a kid, should I label all blacks with that? When a bully shoved & tormented me over many months should I hate the Polish because that was his heritage?

So historically how did the ==cousins== of the Jews come to terms with G-d's chosen? Well, the Arabs mirrored the arrogance of the Jews and wrote their own silly book saying their daddy was Abraham & G-d & that is was Ishmael not Isaac who was G*d's chosen. It is so fucking silly and both sides will continue it and invite more hatred and violence.  It is just as atheist say all along, religion is the cause of 99.9999% of all wars. If I was Jewish, I would stop identifying myself a Jew and say I am German, Polish, Russian or what have you, not out of embarrassment but because I know the suffering and idiocy it has caused.  It is as rational as saying I am a Druid because of I have a touch of English blood in me. I don't feel a need to carve out a piece of England for my Druid heritage. 

I think we kill the humans who do violence, forgetting labels. People should live where they were born and become one with the country of their birth, knowing it is simply arbitrary. We are homo sapiens, the rest doesn't matter. How much farther advanced would we be if humans didn't have such a need to ==glorify== themselves.

 

Furry,

You and I and Brian and Watcher and even Anony are family. You have red blood coursing through your veins just as we do and our DNA would almost perfectly match. Your picture doesn't look like a kin of Moses. Tell me now aren't you more European? Aren't our bloodlines much closer than yours to Moses? So what is the fucking point of being ready to die for something imaginary and over incredibly minute differences?

 

You should be looking like this if you were a child of Moses.

 

 

THANK YOU once again.

Why, when BOTH the mindset of Furry and the mindset of Noony BOTH say they want peace, then it should be easy, not hard. The reason it IS hard is because OF EVOLUTION. They both want peace like an Alpha male wants peace, "Just accept your subordinate nature and we can get along".

IF both sides had a secular attitude like the Constitution which treats all people equally, this would be REAL peace. Peace on the concept of common law, not common religion or common tribe. Under the current climate of both camps I do not want either to have a state, because it would maintain their already stupid attitude of "my tribe is better than your tribe".

Noony is the bigot here. Furry is not a bigot, but she DOES fall for the same "my daddy said, and my morality by proxy of brand is better".

You said it though, DNA proves that we are all related, not only as humans, but transcending from all primates.

If BOTH sides would accept that reality instead of buying into labels being important, this conflict wont end.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Brian37
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Quote:Jews stole the land.

Quote:
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

THAT is why she wont talk to you. That tribal bullshit right there. "My land" same shit when she says it "my land".

That is also why Andrew Jackson committed acts of genocide by marching Native Americans to their deaths. Trail of tears. Why did he do it? Because Native Americans attacked unarmed civilians he personally knew and murdered people he was related to. Israel merely has more weapons and can crush you just like Jackson did in his genocidal solution. I personally would remove that bloodthirsty dick off the 20.

Now if you are NOT going to see this as a human problem, you are not going to ever be part of a neutral peace and "those people" are going to continue to react just like Jackson wrongfully reacted.

Understanding WHY something happens is not an excuse. Understanding human behavior helps you deal with it more constructively.

She also needs to UNDERSTAND, not as an excuse, but needs to understand WHY, those Native Americans attacked Jackson's family. HUMAN EVOLUTION, not labels. We know why tsunamis happen that does not mean humans want it affecting them. Neither side understands the other because it is based on childish tribalism and not the understanding of human evolution or human psychology.

DEAD IS DEAD AND DEATH IS DEATH and when you harm the "outsider" they react. IT IS THAT FUCKING SIMPLE.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Brian37
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BOTH of you are stuck on

BOTH of you are stuck on ancient labels and ancient traditions and it is all bullshit to me,

There is not one human being, rightly or wrongly that does not react to invasions to their life, be it land or physical violence, be it an entire nation, or violence to your neighbor for crime. You hurt someone's life or them physically, ANY human will react to that.

If America invaded China they would fight back. If China invaded America we would fight back. How the fuck either side thinks they are above human evolution is absurd.

I'd like both sides to knock it off.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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A_Nony_Mouse

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:
So, you wouldn't mind it if people tried, over and over and over again, to murder you and your entire family?

You claim it is not about religion but about family. If religion has nothing to do with it why not simply have the whole family register as a more popular religion and end the nonsense?

But that possibility is out if religion matters.

And your rebbe will be out of a job which is all he cares about.

For someone who pretends to care about Science and physical reality, you really are one of the least well educated =and= most bigotted posters here.  Your attempts at drowning out any conversation you get into deserves a "Troll" badge =and= a banning.

I don't think it was Brian, but it was one of the people I lump in along with Brian ("good and smart people&quotEye-wink, but whoever it is put the Tanakh this way -- to other people, it is a religion, to us, it is family history.

And I'd suggest you sit down and give the book of Numbers a good read -- we already have the family register as a religion.

Do you know ANYTHING at all about Judaism?!?  Do you use =any= peer-reviewed information in your claims, or is everything you write based on one blog by one writer?

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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ex-minister wrote:Why did

ex-minister wrote:

Why did the Jews find themselves in this situation? Why can't they let this divisive religion go? Why do they use their religion to make them G*d chosen people? Doesn't that invite hatred? What if I say I am far better than you Furry and to prove it I have this silly book that says the Creator of the Universe chose me over you? You even single yourself out like your tribe is the only one that ever had genocide committed against it. That is so annoying especially since your silly book describes you doing the same to others. Unfortunately for them your genocide was more effective. But see here I go..."your genocide". You are just another human just like me. You didn't commit these atrocities, just your tribe did. Why should I blame and get angry at you? Do you hate the current generation of Germans because of Hitler? When blacks were up in arms and destroying and burning property when I was a kid, it was not my fault. I am white. Did that mean I was responsible for slavery and the subsequent decades of oppression? When a group of blacks beat me with a rubber hose and took my money as a kid, should I label all blacks with that? When a bully shoved & tormented me over many months should I hate the Polish because that was his heritage?

Because what the Jews are chosen to do isn't World Domination -- there is no claim to land outside of Eretz Yisrael, unlike what Germany, or Spain, or Islam, or Christianity, or Rome, or Greece, Persia, Assyria, Babylon =or= Egypt.  It is bringing about an end to the type of divisiveness that you're railing against.  An end to violence, hunger, poverty, and so on -- see Isaiah, and I don't mean the Christian misinterpretations about virgins giving birth to little baby Jesus.

ex-minister wrote:

You and I and Brian and Watcher and even Anony are family. You have red blood coursing through your veins just as we do and our DNA would almost perfectly match. Your picture doesn't look like a kin of Moses. Tell me now aren't you more European? Aren't our bloodlines much closer than yours to Moses? So what is the fucking point of being ready to die for something imaginary and over incredibly minute differences?

You should be looking like this if you were a child of Moses.

First, you unfortunately picked the wrong Jew to ask that.  And I don' t mean because I'm a woman and don't have a beard, but because I don't have pink skin, straight, blonde hair and blue eyes =at all=!  I have a Muslim friend from Syria -- I look more like him (familialy speaking) than not.  I used to have a neighbor from Iraq -- yeah, I favor her more than Madonna or whomever else fits that European archetype you've got going.  Jews and Arabs are white people, but not pink skinned, straight-haired white people.

Secondly, yeah, there are plenty of other Jews who also don't look like whatever other European you've got in mind, and when you get away from Jews who came from parts of the world were Judaism was heavily repressed, which forces out-marriage, you do find more Jews who look like Moses or his sister.  We =know= why Russian Jews look more Russian than "Jewish" -- the Russians were pretty good at stamping out all religions, not just ours.

This is a photo of Bob Dylan --

Rolling Stone cover photo

When it came out, my older brother joked that he'd made the cover of Rolling Stone.  My father and my brother favor each other.  My son -- yeah, if he let's his hair go, winds up with that same mess of hair.  He also doesn't have pink skin or blue eyes.

So.  You were saying?

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Brian37 wrote:
Quote:
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

THAT is why she wont talk to you. That tribal bullshit right there. "My land" same shit when she says it "my land".

Deeded fee simple ownership is exactly the same claim Jews invoke against Germany. It is what Palestinians invoke against the Jews for their theft of private property.

What am I supposed to do? Ignore rights in private property? Please answer the question.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Brian37 wrote:
BOTH of you are stuck on ancient labels and ancient traditions and it is all bullshit to me,

Ancient is the beginning of history with Herodotus when there were no Jews but were Palestineans.

Exactly modern is today, right now, with a criminal Jewish military dictatorship over the Palestinians.

Just what point in time do you think your We Are The World crap can fit in?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Brian37

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
Quote:
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

THAT is why she wont talk to you. That tribal bullshit right there. "My land" same shit when she says it "my land".

Deeded fee simple ownership is exactly the same claim Jews invoke against Germany. It is what Palestinians invoke against the Jews for their theft of private property.

What am I supposed to do? Ignore rights in private property? Please answer the question.

I'd suggest you study the origins of the Jewish National Fund and complaints against the JNF.  I'd then ask if you agree that private property ownership of land by the JNF grants the JNF the right to limit who the land can be leased to, and who can work that land.  I'd then ask if private property rights convey the right of self-defense, for without the right to defend ones private property against an attacker, there is no right to private property.

I've started a thread to see if you could possibly be banned.  I have no illusion that you'll extend the same "private property" argument to land which was lawfully purchased by the JNF prior to the declaration of independence by the State of Israel, nor that you'll support the right of self-defense by Jews against Arab attacks for that private property.  My only hope in responding to you is that you'll fly off in a fit of rage and hatred and provide further evidence for why you should be banned.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


A_Nony_Mouse
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FurryCatHerder wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
Quote:
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

THAT is why she wont talk to you. That tribal bullshit right there. "My land" same shit when she says it "my land".

Deeded fee simple ownership is exactly the same claim Jews invoke against Germany. It is what Palestinians invoke against the Jews for their theft of private property.

What am I supposed to do? Ignore rights in private property? Please answer the question.

I'd suggest you study the origins of the Jewish National Fund and complaints against the JNF.  I'd then ask if you agree that private property ownership of land by the JNF grants the JNF the right to limit who the land can be leased to, and who can work that land.  I'd then ask if private property rights convey the right of self-defense, for without the right to defend ones private property against an attacker, there is no right to private property.

I am quite familiar with the JNA including the fact that after decades of pretending to be an Non-Government Organization the Israeli Supreme Court required it to be considered a government agency. Of course you will pretend otherwise.

I am also familiar with the false pretense of ceding land confiscated under color of law to the JNA which makes it also a criminal organization.

I also note you have not objected in the least to the fact that all land ceded to the JNA was stolen under the absentee owner laws or that those laws recognize the fact of Palestinian ownership of the land stolen.

I will point out that the consequence of the absentee laws was that JNA ownership went from 5% before to 92% after making the criminal theft to be 87% of Mandate Palestine by ISRAELI numbers.

Are you really as ignorant of Israel as you pretend or should there be another Operation Daisy here? You post like the same personae.

Quote:
I've started a thread to see if you could possibly be banned.  I have no illusion that you'll extend the same "private property" argument to land which was lawfully purchased by the JNF prior to the declaration of independence by the State of Israel, nor that you'll support the right of self-defense by Jews against Arab attacks for that private property.  My only hope in responding to you is that you'll fly off in a fit of rage and hatred and provide further evidence for why you should be banned.

Banning is always the jewish response to those who expose the actions of Jews. Real adults respect freedom of speech. Jews hate it for anyone but themselves as you are demonstrating by promoting the jewish dictatorship.

The truth does not need laws to protect it.

Lies need banning to be preserved.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml