Why I have not been around much

robj101
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Why I have not been around much

I have come to the conclusion that you can break down a theist's arguments into want and desire (as noted in my sig). I'm bored of arguing it considering you can't trump desire with reality. I feel like the only real question now should be what would make one desire to at least consider reality over this religious desire. Nothing about religion individually is inherantly and obviously "bad". Collectively it is keeping us detached from one another which is my main complaint about religion but this is not obvious as I noted "individually".

 

Also I'm totally immersed in this new star wars mmo. It's awesome ><

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


ProzacDeathWish
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Hi rob.  Yes, it does get

Hi rob.  Yes, it does get boring and repetitive  ...( conversing with theists, that is )


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robj101 wrote:I have come to

robj101 wrote:

I have come to the conclusion that you can break down a theist's arguments into want and desire (as noted in my sig). I'm bored of arguing it considering you can't trump desire with reality. I feel like the only real question now should be what would make one desire to at least consider reality over this religious desire. Nothing about religion individually is inherantly and obviously "bad". Collectively it is keeping us detached from one another which is my main complaint about religion but this is not obvious as I noted "individually".

 

Also I'm totally immersed in this new star wars mmo. It's awesome ><

Rob, I dont think it is as simple as that. I think people can and do react to different input differently. This argument could be made for some people, but would not always work on everyone all the time.

Thats why we should value the two pronged approach. You have a valid tactic and I do agree "what would it take to consider" is a good question.

But you also need people like me that through the quick and harsh cold water on their face like "DNA DOESN'T LIE BEEEEEAAAATCH" "Thoughts require a material process".

Combo buddy, combo. Like tag team wrestling. If one thing doesn't get em, something else may. Adroit is recent example of something working and getting to him. Now we could ask him what arguments worked on him, but I would say if he looks back at it, even the ones that were not linchpins he can look at now and say "that makes sense too".

I've seen both the slow deconstruction work, and the fast verbal cold water work.

I remember a guy on Infidel Guy who started out with the name "Jesus" in his name. But it only took him a year when he came back with the name "Savage" and told all of us we were right.

Everyone we argue with will respond to different things because humans are individuals.

You hit them with BOTH tactics. Come at their arguments from all sides. We wont save all religious people from their delusions, but we can and often do get to some. And at a minimum it maintains a societal attitude of protecting dissent which has to be protected if atheists want to keep making the arguments they make, either way.

I'd love to go back and thank the guy that started me on my road who said simply "What if Jesus was just a man". It was a long road and it took me almost a decade. Some snap out of it quickly, some take longer, and some don't snap out of it at all. But to never try is certain failure.

Even comedian Ricky Gevaris(sp) said his deconversion was sudden. As he described it his brother made a snarky comment in front of him about the bible with his mother standing there who suddnly shushed him, and right then he thought it was all BS. If it isn't then why was his mom trying to silence his brother's comments?

More often than not when I hear about de conversions they are slow and tedious and it was for me. But my atheism didn't hing on one thing but multiple factors when you add it all up. I only had one question that stared the ball rolling. But that snowball grew and my belief when down the hill with it.

We never see the "a ha" moment. But we can and do often plant those seeds of doubt that they take away with them.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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find out more

robj101 wrote:
I have come to the conclusion that you can break down a theist's arguments into want and desire (as noted in my sig). I'm bored of arguing it considering you can't trump desire with reality. I feel like the only real question now should be what would make one desire to at least consider reality over this religious desire. Nothing about religion individually is inherantly and obviously "bad". Collectively it is keeping us detached from one another which is my main complaint about religion but this is not obvious as I noted "individually".

 

Also I'm totally immersed in this new star wars mmo. It's awesome ><

There's much more than that. Obviously you don't get involved in discussions about what you don't know, but with patience you learn a lot, because the forum (and expecially the people) can act as a motivation to go look science, logic, languages, a lot of things. About instead the conversion, I think you should not ask it a priori. It depends on the person: if one comes and starts with "I believe, but I'm doubt", it's one thing... If another comes and says "I'm the Herald of Christianity and I will Teach you how you're Wrong" then don't even think about it. Most of the times you have to understand a person and why he/she acts like that. That's another big thing, to talk with people all around the world. Maybe you may feel "detached" if don't read the threads for a bit, it could be that you're demoralized for that reason too...


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Brian37 wrote:More often

Brian37 wrote:

More often than not when I hear about de conversions they are slow and tedious and it was for me. But my atheism didn't hing on one thing but multiple factors when you add it all up. I only had one question that stared the ball rolling. But that snowball grew and my belief when down the hill with it.

My deconversion took about 5 years and started off with me arguing about if you can lose salvation or not with a person from a different denomination than mine.  After realizing that the bible had verses that seemed to support both opinions I decided to think for myself.  That's what started the ball rolling for me.

I think the last thing that left me finally an atheist was reading Carl Sagan's book Billions and Billions and pondering over Carl's demise.

So I know the first and last thoughts in my 5 year deconversion process.

I only argued about religion once during that time, and that atheist didn't help at all.  He just came off as an arrogant, super pissed off prick who didn't even make any good points.  He more acted like a kid chunking crap at a church than anything else.

He had been raised in some really whacked out Christian cult that probably scarred the dude for life.  He even wrote and published a book about it.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Watcher wrote:He had been

Watcher wrote:

He had been raised in some really whacked out Christian cult that probably scarred the dude for life.  He even wrote and published a book about it.

                                                                                   What's the book title ?  Is it worth examining ?

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Watcher wrote:Brian37

Watcher wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

More often than not when I hear about de conversions they are slow and tedious and it was for me. But my atheism didn't hing on one thing but multiple factors when you add it all up. I only had one question that stared the ball rolling. But that snowball grew and my belief when down the hill with it.

My deconversion took about 5 years and started off with me arguing about if you can lose salvation or not with a person from a different denomination than mine.  After realizing that the bible had verses that seemed to support both opinions I decided to think for myself.  That's what started the ball rolling for me.

I think the last thing that left me finally an atheist was reading Carl Sagan's book Billions and Billions and pondering over Carl's demise.

So I know the first and last thoughts in my 5 year deconversion process.

I only argued about religion once during that time, and that atheist didn't help at all.  He just came off as an arrogant, super pissed off prick who didn't even make any good points.  He more acted like a kid chunking crap at a church than anything else.

He had been raised in some really whacked out Christian cult that probably scarred the dude for life.  He even wrote and published a book about it.

Sagan was another awesome person. I admit he didn't come on my radar until recently. Bob in the past year pointed out his writings and the space photo inspired by his goading of the earth viewed through the rings of Saturn.

Like Shakespeare's Macbeth act 5 scene 5 Sagan looks at the universe, accepts it's finite nature and our insignificant  and  blip role in all this and still says "WOW".

The theist cannot do this. They cannot go to the movie, or the sporting event or the amusement park without creating a fictional infinite ticket that lasts forever.

Sagan went to the movie, went to the sporting event, and went to the amusement park and accepted the finite ride and still said "WOW"

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


robj101
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The theists inability to see

The theists inability to see the things Sagan could see is part of the detachment issue I mentioned.
The more I have considered this the more obvious it becomes. Religion is individualistic and keeps people in a box...detached from other people, reality and in extreme cases even themselves.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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robj101 wrote:The theists

robj101 wrote:
The theists inability to see the things Sagan could see is part of the detachment issue I mentioned. The more I have considered this the more obvious it becomes. Religion is individualistic and keeps people in a box...detached from other people, reality and in extreme cases even themselves.

 

I haven't thought of it in just this way.  Hmmmm.....

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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robj101 wrote:I have come to

robj101 wrote:

I have come to the conclusion that you can break down a theist's arguments into want and desire (as noted in my sig). I'm bored of arguing it considering you can't trump desire with reality. I feel like the only real question now should be what would make one desire to at least consider reality over this religious desire. Nothing about religion individually is inherantly and obviously "bad". Collectively it is keeping us detached from one another which is my main complaint about religion but this is not obvious as I noted "individually".

 

Also I'm totally immersed in this new star wars mmo. It's awesome ><

Star Wars mmo?? What's that?

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:Hi

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Hi rob.  Yes, it does get boring and repetitive  ...( conversing with theists, that is )

  That's because religion is boring and repetitive!

 

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Hi rob.  Yes, it does get boring and repetitive  ...( conversing with theists, that is )

  That's because religion is boring and repetitive!

 

Is it? Maybe the god's of Abraham will become myth like the Egyptian god is considered myth. I like Egyptian artwork.

But considering that Kwanza and Scientology were started this century and that humans will continue to make up more myth, I cannot see the future as "boring". Maybe Jerry Springer has the same fighting on his show, but every day that fighting is between different people.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Hi rob.  Yes, it does get boring and repetitive  ...( conversing with theists, that is )

  That's because religion is boring and repetitive!

 

Is it? Maybe the god's of Abraham will become myth like the Egyptian god is considered myth. I like Egyptian artwork.

But considering that Kwanza and Scientology were started this century and that humans will continue to make up more myth, I cannot see the future as "boring". Maybe Jerry Springer has the same fighting on his show, but every day that fighting is between different people.

 

 

                                                I think Kwanza and Scientology were created in the twentieth century, but I get your point.

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Atheistextremist
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Hey Brian

Brian37 wrote:

Watcher wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

More often than not when I hear about de conversions they are slow and tedious and it was for me. But my atheism didn't hing on one thing but multiple factors when you add it all up. I only had one question that stared the ball rolling. But that snowball grew and my belief when down the hill with it.

My deconversion took about 5 years and started off with me arguing about if you can lose salvation or not with a person from a different denomination than mine.  After realizing that the bible had verses that seemed to support both opinions I decided to think for myself.  That's what started the ball rolling for me.

I think the last thing that left me finally an atheist was reading Carl Sagan's book Billions and Billions and pondering over Carl's demise.

So I know the first and last thoughts in my 5 year deconversion process.

I only argued about religion once during that time, and that atheist didn't help at all.  He just came off as an arrogant, super pissed off prick who didn't even make any good points.  He more acted like a kid chunking crap at a church than anything else.

He had been raised in some really whacked out Christian cult that probably scarred the dude for life.  He even wrote and published a book about it.

Sagan was another awesome person. I admit he didn't come on my radar until recently. Bob in the past year pointed out his writings and the space photo inspired by his goading of the earth viewed through the rings of Saturn.

Like Shakespeare's Macbeth act 5 scene 5 Sagan looks at the universe, accepts it's finite nature and our insignificant  and  blip role in all this and still says "WOW".

The theist cannot do this. They cannot go to the movie, or the sporting event or the amusement park without creating a fictional infinite ticket that lasts forever.

Sagan went to the movie, went to the sporting event, and went to the amusement park and accepted the finite ride and still said "WOW"

 

 

 

See if you can get your hands on Microcosmos by Dorian Sagan and Lynn Margulis. It looks in the other direction - I think you'll like that, too. 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

robj101 wrote:

I have come to the conclusion that you can break down a theist's arguments into want and desire (as noted in my sig). I'm bored of arguing it considering you can't trump desire with reality. I feel like the only real question now should be what would make one desire to at least consider reality over this religious desire. Nothing about religion individually is inherantly and obviously "bad". Collectively it is keeping us detached from one another which is my main complaint about religion but this is not obvious as I noted "individually".

 

Also I'm totally immersed in this new star wars mmo. It's awesome ><

Star Wars mmo?? What's that?

http://www.swtor.com/

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.