A boy survives... must be a miracle

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A boy survives... must be a miracle

This is ridiculous. I'll let you read it first. My questions will below.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/12/20/3330504/boys-recovery-deemed-a-miracle.html

 

OK. So how many people die every year while family and friends pray for their survival? Millions?

Sure they prayed to a saint for help, one who had a scar on her face like the boy, but what about the efforts of the doctors?

They put him a hyperbolic chamber each day to prevent the infection from spreading; they also cut out the infection manually.

What? Did the reporter forget to interview the doctors? Did any thing they do help? I bet this boy would have died if it weren't for their efforts.

Instead the church recognizes this as a miracle. WTF?

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Interesting.

                 I notice when I read these storys the parants are always devout catholics,  does the pope ever get involved when the survivor is muslim or buddist?

 

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The Lord works in mysterious

The Lord works in mysterious ways.

The Lord's will be done.

My mom does this crap.  Drives me nuts.  She prays for a certain outcome of something.   If it turns out the way she wants it to, it is because of God.  If it doesn't turn out the way she wants it to, then God knows better and has some mysterious plan that will make it all turn out for the best in the end.

I hear this type of reasoning from her ALL THE TIME.   The problem is, is that there is NOTHING that can happen to prove, in her mind, that there is no God or that prayer does not work.

My mother is a smart, highly educated, wise woman.  WHAT THE FUCK?  Screw you, religion.  I want my mom's mind back.

How does a woman with a MASTER's degree not believe in evolution?

My mom's side of the family is extremely close and all lovey-dovey.   One of my mom's nieces is a homosexual and is in a longterm commitment with another woman.  Now my mother, who loves her niece dearly, believes that her rights as an individual should be restricted because of her innate sexual orientation.

None of this makes sense.  She wouldn't believe in any of this, indeed she would call in ludicrous for someone to have those beliefs, if religion had not hijacked her outlook on life like some parasite.

If some slimey politician acts devout she will vote for them on that quality alone.  Because a follower of Christ will be led by the Lord almighty and that is always the wisest policy, right?

Biggest mindfuck ever.   And I'm ranting.  Sorry.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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I am not going to bother

I am not going to bother reading it. "Miracle" is merely a gap word which relies on willful ignorance based on the bad logic of selection bias and bad sample rates.

The people who used this horrible logic will attempt to have it both ways no matter what happens.

EXAMPLE

1. Airplane one crashes and only 1 person dies, "POOF" "Miracle"

2. Airplane two crashes and only one survives "POOF" "Miracle"

When does it cease to be a "Miracle" when it is a 50/50 ratio?

How about this, whatever the reason for the crash and no matter what the outcome either way, it would be for NATURAL reasons, not magical reasons. Mechanical, weather, pilot error, traffic control error. No magic needed in either case needed to explain reality.

This kid survived for one reason and one reason only, THAT IS THE WAY IT PLAYED OUT! No Allah, no Thor no Jesus, no Karma needed. Now, when things like this happen when we don't know the EXACT reason it played out that way, it would be better to say, there is a natural reason it played out this way. How about all the kids who die from all sorts of things every fucking day. Every death from hunger or disease. Millions per year. Are those "miracles" too, because when those kids die, to the believer, then they are in heaven, so why would their death be a bad thing?

We have safer air flight now, not because of prayer. We have seat belts now, not because of Allah. We have doctors now, not because of Vishnu. All those things came about by NOT inserting stupid words born out of myth like "miracle".

Like I said, "miracle" is nothing more than the word used as an ignorant(not stupid, just lack of information) way of gap filling.

The minors in Chile survived because that is the way it played out. When I die, and I will someday, it wont be because of "sin" or a guy with a pitchfork, it will be because something natural got me. Be it crime, disease or old age, none of the good or bad that happen in life need a fictional super hero or a man with a pitchfork to explain.

 

 

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Christians do not even know what a miracle is

 

Christians have no respect for their sacred text. The gospels defined christian miracles. Jesus performed hundreds of them and when a miracle occurred a person was cured: (Matthew 11:5) “The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised.” There were no doctors required; they did not need years of follow-up operations. People were cured immediately and completely. (Mark 5 29): "Immediately her bleeding stopped and she felt in her body that she was freed from her suffering."

 This wasn’t a miracle by any biblical definition. This is just Catholics covering up for the fact that their god and his miracles are pure nonsense.

 


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Watcher wrote:How does a

Watcher wrote:
How does a woman with a MASTER's degree not believe in evolution?

There are many people with Master's that don't believe in evolution. So, people who believe in creation are stupid is that what you're trying to say?

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1:20


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Lee2216 wrote:Watcher

Lee2216 wrote:

Watcher wrote:
How does a woman with a MASTER's degree not believe in evolution?

There are many people with Master's that don't believe in evolution. So, people who believe in creation are stupid is that what you're trying to say?

Not stupid.  Uneducated usually.  The higher the level of education the higher the percentage of atheists.  Also the lower the percentage of Fundy's that believe in a biblically young Earth, Noah's flood, and Creationism.

That's not an opinion.  That's proven.

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Lee2216 wrote:Watcher

Lee2216 wrote:

Watcher wrote:
How does a woman with a MASTER's degree not believe in evolution?

There are many people with Master's that don't believe in evolution. So, people who believe in creation are stupid is that what you're trying to say?

 

Many people with master's degrees are stupid. It is virtually impossible to flunk in college if you put the slightest bit of effort into it regardless of how stupid you might be. The level of degree you have is much more strongly correlated with how much time you spent in college than how intelligent you are. So yeah, if you believe in creation you are either

 

A. stupid, at least as far as this particular issue is concerned

 

or

 

B. haven't thought about it for very long. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Beyond Saving wrote:Lee2216

Beyond Saving wrote:

Lee2216 wrote:

Watcher wrote:
How does a woman with a MASTER's degree not believe in evolution?

There are many people with Master's that don't believe in evolution. So, people who believe in creation are stupid is that what you're trying to say?

 

Many people with master's degrees are stupid. It is virtually impossible to flunk in college if you put the slightest bit of effort into it regardless of how stupid you might be. The level of degree you have is much more strongly correlated with how much time you spent in college than how intelligent you are. So yeah, if you believe in creation you are either

 

A. stupid, at least as far as this particular issue is concerned

 

or

 

B. haven't thought about it for very long. 

 

C. Deliberately ignorant.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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Watcher wrote:Lee2216

Watcher wrote:

Lee2216 wrote:

Watcher wrote:
How does a woman with a MASTER's degree not believe in evolution?

There are many people with Master's that don't believe in evolution. So, people who believe in creation are stupid is that what you're trying to say?

Not stupid.  Uneducated usually.  The higher the level of education the higher the percentage of atheists.  Also the lower the percentage of Fundy's that believe in a biblically young Earth, Noah's flood, and Creationism.

That's not an opinion.  That's proven.

C'mon, a lot of them are stupid... Sticking out tongue

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There's a book out right now

There's a book out right now revolving around a kid's "near death" experience and what he saw as he was losing consciousness. 

 

Can you guess how he described it?  I'll give you a hint: it had nothing to do with rational science and his father is a zealot.

 

The nerve of these parents capitalizing on their children, trying to earn an extra buck and brainwashing their developing minds further.

 

Someone call social services...

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


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Vastet wrote:C'mon, a lot of

Vastet wrote:
C'mon, a lot of them are stupid... :P

Well...yeah, ok.   You're right.  A lot of them are.   Way of the Master proves that.

And yes, religious minded folk tend to have lower IQs than skeptics.

I gathered up some research on this incase a theist asked for proof.   So I have some things on both IQ and Education levels.  I might as well throw it out here.

Quote:

Atheists scored 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6W4M-4TFV93D-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=db2ee09bae0195cc1ecbd026da77245c

Religious Believers as a group were found to be significantly less intelligent and more authoritarian than religious Skeptics.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1384909

Less educated people are more likely to believe in miracles, heaven, devils, and that adversity is a punishment for sin (even holding denomination constant).

Religious beliefs and education appear to be substitutes.

As people select denominations that match their beliefs, more educated people, who have weaker beliefs, switch into denominations where beliefs are weak. If denominations are belief-based groups, then we shouldn’t be surprised that more educated people sort into low belief denominations with low levels of attendance. The fact that education and belief are substitutes also shows itself in the fact that people from high belief denominations acquire less education. Holding their education constant, parents who come from high belief denominations have less educated children

http://www.economics.harvard.edu/pub/hier/2001/HIER1913.pdf

An interesting aside is the higher education levels, while they do tend to make people less religious, it also tend to make them more likely to go to church.   Apparently higher educated individuals are more social and so they go to church or whatnot for the social aspects.   Even though they don't believe in God.

How strange.   Maybe if I got my Master's degree I'd suddenly start going to church every Sunday.   Argh.   I'd be bored to tears.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Maybe a preachers voice is

Maybe a preachers voice is easy to drown out and churches are ideal for writing dissertations...

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...

One of the reasons people who go to college are less religious is that they're exposed to a wide range of viewpoints.  They start to wonder, "Am I wrong?  How could

these smart people have different beliefs from me?  Maybe they're right about some things," and it tends to dampen their views a bit.  This is why fundamentalist Christians

tend to not want members of their flock going to university, and a lot of times even to seminary (The Bible doesn't seem to praise knowledge much). 

 

A lot of Christians growing up aren't taught theology, so the first time their beliefs are sophisticatedly challenged can be rattling; and pastors don't teach much, if any,

theology to adults either.

                                                                


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Watcher wrote:My mom does

Watcher wrote:

My mom does this crap.  Drives me nuts.  She prays for a certain outcome of something.   If it turns out the way she wants it to, it is because of God.  If it doesn't turn out the way she wants it to, then God knows better and has some mysterious plan that will make it all turn out for the best in the end.

My mother is a smart, highly educated, wise woman.  WHAT THE FUCK?  Screw you, religion.  I want my mom's mind back.

How does a woman with a MASTER's degree not believe in evolution?

None of this makes sense.  She wouldn't believe in any of this, indeed she would call in ludicrous for someone to have those beliefs, if religion had not hijacked her outlook on life like some parasite.

If some slimey politician acts devout she will vote for them on that quality alone.  Because a follower of Christ will be led by the Lord almighty and that is always the wisest policy, right?

Biggest mindfuck ever.   And I'm ranting.  Sorry.

 

My mom is a devote Catholic too, even worse, my sister is one of these women who would flail herself if she could.

Both of them blind as a bat when it comes to seeing through the lies.

My mom has a saying, "Born a Catholic, raised catholic, baptized catholic, die catholic".

I got so tired of her saying it to me that one day I told her, "I reject all that you believe, I reject god, I reject the church, I reject their dogma and I reject all religions.".

She didn't speak to me for two weeks and today she says the conversation never took place.

Makes me think of a seven year old saying, "Nananananana, I can't hear you, nanananana" and covering their ears.

 

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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digitalbeachbum wrote:My mom

digitalbeachbum wrote:

My mom is a devout Catholic too...

Actually my mom is a devout Southern Baptist.

Funny, isn't it?   How similar they can be even though if we put them face to face, both calling themselves Christians, they would consider the other on the wrong path and doomed to eternal fire and damnation?

My mom derisively refers to Mormons as a "cult" and has never even deigned Catholicism with a comment in my presence.   Though I'm sure she has verbally and mentally filetted them to herself over and over.

Religion causes division.  I base this on personal experience.  Completely unnecessary and ridiculous division.  For what?  Whether Riding Hood had a red or blue or green or yellow coat?

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My wife and I joke around

My wife and I joke around about my wife's personality.  She always has a guilty complex about herself.   Other people have joked about her this way before we met.

We joke that she should have been a Catholic so she could always confess of her perceived "sins".  What's funny is that my wife was never religious but has always been spiritual feeling in a vague, buddhist, we are all part of the Universe, sort of way.

Baptists don't have guilty complexes.   You accept Jesus' sacrifice for ALL your sins and it's all covered for eternity.

You don't have to tell any human any details.   The big JC has it covered.

But some of the big problems SB people have with C people is that Baptists, no confessing your sins with a priest.   Screw that human person.   Only the spirit idea of Jesus matters.

"Thou shalt have no graven images..." or something like that.

SC followers consider statues and whatnot made of any material graven images.  Catholics love graven images.   The image of a dead Jesus hanging on a cross?  Sacrilege!   A statue of the Virgin Mary?   Satan's work!   Images of saints?   Argh.

Jesus said, "No one comes to the Father but by me..."   Praying to a pope, Mary, or Saints for any kind of interdiction contradict this.

Lord's last supper, holy crap.   Jesus supposedly said, "Do this in rememberance..." not "Eat me..."  For Baptists it's symbolic, not the literal blood and flesh of Christ.  So Baptists basically are thoroughly disgusted with Catholics for all these supposed deviations from "scripture".

Baptists also hold a lot of bizarre ideas like their faith comes straight from John the Baptist, that they are the only "true" followers (like all the various groups  all do), and everything else.

Hell, they are all insane.  The last time I was in my families Southern Baptist church the preacher blurted out in the middle of his rant, "Scientists compared the DNA of humans and dirt and it was so similar it was almost scary!!!!"   I bit my lip so hard it almost bled all over that pew.

My wife asked me, after we left, "Dirt doesn't have DNA does it?"   I responded through clenched teeth, "No, dirt does not have deoxyribonucleic acid."

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I had a friend named Mike a

I had a friend named Mike a long time ago. We had a falling out but that is a different story.

But he had a joke I still find funny today.

"I am the only Jew sent to Catholic school, that way I could feel twice as guilty about everything I did".

But the Southern Baptists not feeling guilt? Holly crap, are you kidding? Out of all the sects that freak out over private parts in this country, only Mormons and Amish beat them, and that is only because of numbers.

Name me one Abrahamic religion that doesn't try to make you feel guilty about sex?

Hitchens in his books and in his debates rightfully condemned ALL superstitions that promoted avoiding the birth canal in their stories.

The idea of purity was around before the age of monotheism.

Sex is why everyone reading this exists. We simply cannot look collectively as a species to the reality that "Yuck" does not mean evil.

The best approach to sex is to THINK first and educate yourself first,  just like anything you do in life. If you don't like something, don't do it, but don't tell others they cant. If you don't want a baby, then the best approach is to keep it in your pants. If you still want sex but not the baby, then wrap it or get snipped.

Religion takes human behavior and twists it so badly it takes nature and turns it into a comic book.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Watcher wrote:Actually my

Watcher wrote:

Actually my mom is a devout Southern Baptist.

Funny, isn't it?   How similar they can be even though if we put them face to face, both calling themselves Christians, they would consider the other on the wrong path and doomed to eternal fire and damnation?

My mom derisively refers to Mormons as a "cult" and has never even deigned Catholicism with a comment in my presence.   Though I'm sure she has verbally and mentally filetted them to herself over and over.

Religion causes division.  I base this on personal experience.  Completely unnecessary and ridiculous division.  For what?  Whether Riding Hood had a red or blue or green or yellow coat?

 

I agree. Religion causes division.

I worked at this big company several years ago and we had these "gatherings" for each of the departments, sort of "get to know each other" stuff.

One of these meetings had a girl from the hills of Tennessee and I mean literally, the HILLS. She was fresh off the turnip truck. She didn't have a clue about many of the modern conveniences; had never rode in a elevator sort of thing.

During this meeting one of the subjects that came up was "what is your religious preference?"

When it was my turn I said, "I was raised Catholic but have since converted to Buddhism" to which several people asked me the typical questions associated with such a switch in beliefs.

It is then, this girl from Tennessee said, "Oh, Catholics! They are pagans, they don't believe in Christ our lord savior..."

I looked at her and before I could say any thing, several Catholics in the room either started to laugh or blurt out "HUH?". Of course every one explained their position on this subject, but the most curious thing was her reply after every one told her she was wrong.

Her response was that the preacher back in Tennessee had taught her and the others in her church that Catholics were in league with Satan. They didn't believe in Jesus as their savior. He talked about "black masses" and a bunch of other bullshit which I had already known to be false since I had some 25 years of attending a Catholic school and church.

Over time I got the chance to speak with her often and as I got to know her it became perfectly clear that she was just plain ignorant. Having never left the small town in Tennessee for 30 years she knew nothing other than what her parents, school teacher and the preacher taught her. Each generation was being fed spoonful after bowlful of bullshit; and no one knows any better or to question the source of this information.

The worst thing about this story was that the preacher basically controlled the town. No one dared challenge them as this was "a man of god" and how could he possibly be wrong?

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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Watcher wrote:My wife and I

Watcher wrote:

My wife and I joke around about my wife's personality.  She always has a guilty complex about herself.   Other people have joked about her this way before we met.

We joke that she should have been a Catholic so she could always confess of her perceived "sins".  What's funny is that my wife was never religious but has always been spiritual feeling in a vague, Buddhist, we are all part of the Universe, sort of way.

I remember when I was fighting the years of lies engraved in my brain, guilt was one of the most powerful visions I had to fight. The idea of burning in hell for eternity was a terrible thought and I was fearful I wouldn't be with my family. It wasn't until I started to meet other people from other faiths that "wait! there isn't just one source of information" and "what if they are all wrong?". Once I got over that guilt I was basically home free from all the bullshit.

Guilt & fear are the reason why religions still exist today. If people were told "do what ever you want, there is no punishment" then why would people want to listen to the priests and other religious leaders?

Funny thing about that "eternal punishment", it didn't exist until much later in Christian teachings. Judaism doesn't have a hell so it was made up by leaders as a way to prevent people from leaving their group. "Oh, you better not stop believing in what I am saying..... you... you will go to hell and burn for a eternity if you stop believing!!!"

HAHAHA. Douche bag religious leaders.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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Wasn't it only in the last

Wasn't it only in the last 300 odd years that christianity adopted the concept of hell en mass? I remember reading about it somewhere, though I could easily be a couple centuries off.

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Brian37 wrote:Name me one

Brian37 wrote:

Name me one Abrahamic religion that doesn't try to make you feel guilty about sex?

Hitchens in his books and in his debates rightfully condemned ALL superstitions that promoted avoiding the birth canal in their stories.

The idea of purity was around before the age of monotheism.

Sex is why everyone reading this exists. We simply cannot look collectively as a species to the reality that "Yuck" does not mean evil.

The best approach to sex is to THINK first and educate yourself first,  just like anything you do in life. If you don't like something, don't do it, but don't tell others they cant. If you don't want a baby, then the best approach is to keep it in your pants. If you still want sex but not the baby, then wrap it or get snipped.

Religion takes human behavior and twists it so badly it takes nature and turns it into a comic book.

I agree with you on this subject, guilt about sex is a huge tool for religions to control the masses.

Look at all the political and religious leaders who are either closet gays, pedophiles, rapists, etc. Are they weak because they don't have enough faith in what they preach? Or are they too weak to admit who they really are and the guilt prevents them from saying/doing the truth?

It's guilt

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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Lee2216 wrote:Watcher

Lee2216 wrote:

Watcher wrote:
How does a woman with a MASTER's degree not believe in evolution?

There are many people with Master's that don't believe in evolution. So, people who believe in creation are stupid is that what you're trying to say?

I don't give a shit what degree you have. Once you know what DNA is you have no excuse to go around claiming magic babies. Once you know what rigor mortis is you have no excuse going around claiming zombie gods.

Facts dont change because of someone's fantasies.

Once you have a telescope you have no excuse clinging to astrology.

If you are willing to sit on a jury and accept DNA evidence to convict a murderer you should be able to accept virgin births as myth.

Being smart on some issues doesn't make you right on all issues. The earth is not flat and evolution is fact. Get over it and get with the times.

There are 7 billion people on this planet. Most of them have some sort of woo superstition. That only proves that human evolution's goal isn't about getting facts right, it's only goal is to get to the point of fucking. It doesn't require knowing the earth rotates around the sun to fuck. Humans were fucking long before Galileo. And even Newton came up with his own stupid woo in Alchemy.

There are Muslims with PHDs. There are Buddhists and Shintoists with PHDs. There are Jews with PHDs. There are Hindus with PHDs. None of those degrees change the FACT of evolution which is backed up by DNA and none of those claimed deities are true just because they have degrees.

It only proves that humans, no matter how smart they are, can and do fall for bad claims.

Which is why WE are here to help YOU understand WHY even smart people can do that.

 

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Brian37 wrote:But the

Brian37 wrote:

But the Southern Baptists not feeling guilt? Holly crap, are you kidding? Out of all the sects that freak out over private parts in this country, only Mormons and Amish beat them, and that is only because of numbers.

Name me one Abrahamic religion that doesn't try to make you feel guilty about sex?

Well...

I guess Baptists are decentralized so there is a lot of swing room about what they focus on.

My mother, despite being a hardcore fundy, really pushed the importance of education.   Which is unusual for such a religious individual.

She was also very forthcoming about sexuality.  She even brought me books when I was still pretty young that covered human sex.  I was the kid informing all his friends about the facts and myths about sex.

I even remember informing one of my buddies back when I was around six or so that females don't have penises.   He responded in shock, "They don't?!?!"

Zero guilt.   Once you accept Jesus' sacrifice for your sins for your entire life past and present why feel guilty?  Hell they told us everyone sins, no way to avoid it being a human, so you aren't being some kind of freak by being sinful.   You are being absolutely normal.

After I hit 12 I jerked off constantly when I could find a quiet corner somewhere.   I never felt the slightest twinge of guilt about it.   Even though I believed in my religion 100%.

Here's a joke.   What do Jews and Baptists have in common?   Jews don't recognize Jesus as the son of God and Baptists don't recognize each other at the liquor store.

Guilt?   No, I never was taught or felt guilt from religion.   It was a comforting religion in the fact that you were completely covered and going to heaven no questions asked.  No matter what you did.   All you had to do was accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour and believe he died on the cross for YOUR sins and rose from the dead.

Done and done.   Where's the beer and my porno?  JC has me covered.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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To put it succinctly, a

To put it succinctly, a masters degree in geology doesn't make you an expert on evolution. You need knowledge of chemistry, physics, geology, geography, climate, history, and biology, in varying amounts (and I'm probably skipping things), to understand the process of evolution. No single field can explain the process, unless of course that field is evolution itself.

I'll bet that you can't find a single person in all of the Earth with masters in each of those fields who disputes evolution. I welcome you to try.

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Watcher wrote:Brian37

Watcher wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

But the Southern Baptists not feeling guilt? Holly crap, are you kidding? Out of all the sects that freak out over private parts in this country, only Mormons and Amish beat them, and that is only because of numbers.

Name me one Abrahamic religion that doesn't try to make you feel guilty about sex?

Well...

I guess Baptists are decentralized so there is a lot of swing room about what they focus on.

My mother, despite being a hardcore fundy, really pushed the importance of education.   Which is unusual for such a religious individual.

She was also very forthcoming about sexuality.  She even brought me books when I was still pretty young that covered human sex.  I was the kid informing all his friends about the facts and myths about sex.

I even remember informing one of my buddies back when I was around six or so that females don't have penises.   He responded in shock, "They don't?!?!"

Zero guilt.   Once you accept Jesus' sacrifice for your sins for your entire life past and present why feel guilty?  Hell they told us everyone sins, no way to avoid it being a human, so you aren't being some kind of freak by being sinful.   You are being absolutely normal.

After I hit 12 I jerked off constantly when I could find a quiet corner somewhere.   I never felt the slightest twinge of guilt about it.   Even though I believed in my religion 100%.

Here's a joke.   What do Jews and Baptists have in common?   Jews don't recognize Jesus as the son of God and Baptists don't recognize each other at the liquor store.

Guilt?   No, I never was taught or felt guilt from religion.   It was a comforting religion in the fact that you were completely covered and going to heaven no questions asked.  No matter what you did.   All you had to do was accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour and believe he died on the cross for YOUR sins and rose from the dead.

Done and done.   Where's the beer and my porno?  JC has me covered.

You are lucky. Still does not change that labels do not describe the complexity of the individual. But the stories and motifs in the books of Abraham DO teach guilt and use fear and bribery to keep you "comforted'. "I got you covered" is the bribe part you fell for. Others fall for the fear and threat motifs.

It makes it mentally easy for the believer to cherry pick and or water down their beliefs and move the goal posts to cling to it. You were lucky to escape it. I think your mother screwed up by valuing education if she wanted you to stay enslaved to it.

Deity belief takes natural human evolution, both the good behavior and bad behavior in our evolution, and turns it into a comic book story of a super hero vs a super villain.

Sex in reality is messy and we often don't like to think about the fact that if we didn't like it TO SOME DEGREE, evolution wouldn't occur.

I know my biological mother had a vagina and my biological father had a penis, but I certainly don't like the mental picture, no matter how natural it is in reality.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Vastet wrote:No single field

Vastet wrote:
No single field can explain the process, unless of course that field is evolution itself.

I view it differently.

I'm of the belief, and so are some experts in various scientific professions, that there are certain fields of study that each, independently prove evolution.   Without any need of the others to bolster the others in that conclusion.

Evolution is the most backed up theory in all of human science.

We have more evidence for evolution than a helio centric solar system.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Watcher wrote:Vastet

Watcher wrote:

Vastet wrote:
No single field can explain the process, unless of course that field is evolution itself.

I view it differently.

I'm of the belief, and so are some experts in various scientific professions, that there are certain fields of study that each, independently prove evolution.   Without any need of the others to bolster the others in that conclusion.

Evolution is the most backed up theory in all of human science.

We have more evidence for evolution than a helio centric solar system.

Like I said, lots of believers love those forensic shows where DNA is used to convict murder's but in two days these same people will celebrate the debunked claim that a baby can be born with one set of DNA.

But take heart believers, superstition exists even in China. People there put symbols on their porches to keep demons out. The number 8 is taken seriously as a lucky number. The number 4 is avoided like the plague. Their imperial palace is covered in superstitious entities that even people there still believe in.

Religion is woo superstition with numbers and political power. The only reason someone cant become president if they swore an oath to Big Foot, is because there aren't enough people in this country who take Big Foot seriously.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Vastet wrote:Wasn't it only

Vastet wrote:
Wasn't it only in the last 300 odd years that christianity adopted the concept of hell en mass? I remember reading about it somewhere, though I could easily be a couple centuries off.

Yes, you are correct. The christian hell was invented much later in the time-line. It has progressed each generation to become different and today you could walk in to any church and find people who have a different belief from those across the pew.

Yet another reason why religions are a complete myth based on myths from drunk people who roamed the desert suffering from heat exhaustion.

 

 

 

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Vastet wrote:Wasn't it only

Vastet wrote:
Wasn't it only in the last 300 odd years that christianity adopted the concept of hell en mass? I remember reading about it somewhere, though I could easily be a couple centuries off.

Yes, you are correct. The christian hell was invented much later in the time-line. It has progressed each generation to become different and today you could walk in to any church and find people who have a different belief from those across the pew.

Yet another reason why religions are a complete myth based on myths from drunk people who roamed the desert suffering from heat exhaustion.

 

 

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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Watcher wrote:Well...I guess

Watcher wrote:
Well...

I guess Baptists are decentralized so there is a lot of swing room about what they focus on.

My mother, despite being a hardcore fundy, really pushed the importance of education.   Which is unusual for such a religious individual.

She was also very forthcoming about sexuality.  She even brought me books when I was still pretty young that covered human sex.  I was the kid informing all his friends about the facts and myths about sex.

I even remember informing one of my buddies back when I was around six or so that females don't have penises.   He responded in shock, "They don't?!?!"

Zero guilt.   Once you accept Jesus' sacrifice for your sins for your entire life past and present why feel guilty?  Hell they told us everyone sins, no way to avoid it being a human, so you aren't being some kind of freak by being sinful.   You are being absolutely normal.

After I hit 12 I jerked off constantly when I could find a quiet corner somewhere.   I never felt the slightest twinge of guilt about it.   Even though I believed in my religion 100%.

Here's a joke.   What do Jews and Baptists have in common?   Jews don't recognize Jesus as the son of God and Baptists don't recognize each other at the liquor store.

Guilt?   No, I never was taught or felt guilt from religion.   It was a comforting religion in the fact that you were completely covered and going to heaven no questions asked.  No matter what you did.   All you had to do was accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour and believe he died on the cross for YOUR sins and rose from the dead.

Done and done.   Where's the beer and my porno?  JC has me covered.

I'm confused. Are you an atheist or a theist?

 

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digitalbeachbum wrote:I'm

digitalbeachbum wrote:

I'm confused. Are you an atheist or a theist?

Sorry for the confusion.

I was raised Southern Baptist and believed in it 100% until I was around 25 years of age.   Then I went into an internal questioning time period.

At 30 I simply could not believe in god or religion or anything.

I'm 37 now.

I was just talking about what it was like, from my formerly religious viewpoint.   I talk "christian" sometimes as someone who was on the inside and is now free.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Watcher wrote:Vastet

Watcher wrote:

Vastet wrote:
No single field can explain the process, unless of course that field is evolution itself.

I view it differently.

I'm of the belief, and so are some experts in various scientific professions, that there are certain fields of study that each, independently prove evolution.   Without any need of the others to bolster the others in that conclusion.

Evolution is the most backed up theory in all of human science.

We have more evidence for evolution than a helio centric solar system.

That is true (well, not sure there's more proof than for heliocentrism, but that aside..), but I don't think it'd be possible to disprove evolution without knowledge of all the fields that prove it.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Vastet wrote:(well, not sure

Vastet wrote:
(well, not sure there's more proof than for heliocentrism, but that aside..)

No really.   I wasn't talking out of my ass at that point.

I do talk out of my ass all the time but that wasn't one of those.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Watcher wrote:Vastet

Watcher wrote:

Vastet wrote:
(well, not sure there's more proof than for heliocentrism, but that aside..)

No really.   I wasn't talking out of my ass at that point.

I do talk out of my ass all the time but that wasn't one of those.

 

 

My eyes, my eyes.........

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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cj wrote:My eyes, my

cj wrote:

My eyes, my eyes.........

I've got a cute little ass, woman.   Weirdo.