You Just Don't Understand

Larry Gott
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You Just Don't Understand

A theist took issue with my reading of the bible, saying that if I just gave my heart to god I would be made to understand what I was reading. Otherwise, he assured me, I would never understand it, and I wold be be doomed to eternal punishment. My response to him follows:

It's interesting that you begin with what amounts to a threat, and then tell me I should seek, and meditate on, and revere the individual who would torture me forever if I do not. You aren't in the advertising business, are you! "Love this god, or he will burn you forever!


You say the scripture is harder to understand since we all do not speak and read Hebrew or Aramaic (or ancient Greek, you might have added). This is something no apologist has ever adequately explained. The creator of the universe, supposedly a being of ultimate and unbounded power, possessing complete foreknowledge of everything that will ever happen, commissions documents to be written in languages that almost no one will understand, doesn't even preserve the originals of those documents, and expects people generations or even millennia after the fact to understand, no matter what language they speak. This after he confounded the languages according to his own book.

Aramaic is a dead language. And the Hebrew of Moses (if, indeed there ever was a Moses) is not the same as that of modern speakers, any more than English from as short a time ago as Chaucer is readable by modern speakers without copious marginal notes and definitions. Harder to understand? The bible is translated differently by many translators, and interpreted to death by many so-called biblical scholars. Most of them can't agree on the meaning, so how could people in their billions be expected to?

John 6:44 says no one can come to Jesus without being called by the father. How many people would you estimate never even heard of Jesus or Yahweh? Billions? Yet the penalty for not accepting this nonsense is everlasting agony? It takes an imagination like Steven King's to dream up such a horror story, and the loving concern and human kindness of a Ted Bundy to foist it off on gullible people as something real.

I am accountable to my fellow human beings for my behavior during this brief span. I do not accept that there is any eternal force to whom I owe anything at all.



Brian37
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All that person is really

All that person is really doing is fooling themselves and in turn trying to get you to drink the Kool Aid. "If you just blindly swallow all those pretty stories you'll understand".

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Total confusion reigns with divine revelation

 

The evangelical theologian Carl Ferdinand Howard Henry listed certain criteria for divine revelation in his book “God, Revelation and Authority” including:
-          Godʼs revelation is rational communication conveyed in intelligible ideas and meaningful words, that is, in conceptual-verbal form.
-          The Holy Spirit superintends the communication of divine revelation, first, by inspiring the prophetic-apostolic writings, and second, by illuminating and interpreting the scripturally given Word of God.”


“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” (John 14:26)

Christianity gives us as many interpretations of the bible as there are preachers. We have Mormons who say their book is divinely inspired, Catholics who say sacred tradition is equal to the bible. We have thousands of prophets, presidential candidates, and quarterbacks who claim they alone are chosen by god. We have total confusion and disagreement between denominations about theology; what is right and wrong. Some say homosexuals should be killed others perform wedding services for them. Almost every denomination at one time claims every other denomination was heretical. Warren Jeffs is held to be as prophet by his people the Westburro Baptist wacko is a Christian prophet??

It’s impossible to know whose interpretation of the bible is correct, which denomination is right, which prophet is false, and, after yesterday, which is god’s anointed quarterback. This is divine revelation???

Has the Holy Ghost successfully taught us all things, illuminated the sacred text??? Is this “rational communication conveyed in intelligible ideas and meaningful words?” Total confusion reigns with Christian divine revelation. There cannot possible be a god in charge of this unholy mess.

 


Atheistextremist
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It would be amusing if that

 

 

sense of illumination attributed to the wholly ghost amounted to nothing more than human belief. 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


Louis_Cypher
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Yeppers...

I gotta quote Mark Twain here...

“It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand.”



But then, what's to understand, it's a comic book on par with "Archie and Jughead"...

LC >;-}>

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.


ex-minister
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you prayed for me...ah...all better now

 Spent years giving my heart to god. He doesn't want the brain. And it never really gets better, you just paint a facade on and worry that you will be found out. It ain't appreciated in churches to question. You can for a minute but one fucking quick prayer to Jesus should fix it.  So you throw on yet another facade or shut your fucking mouth and put on a happy face. They all know deep inside they will burn in hell. The whole Christians message essentially rips at the core of your self-esteem.

 

Good responses by the way.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

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Louis_Cypher wrote:I gotta

Louis_Cypher wrote:

I gotta quote Mark Twain here...

“It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand.”



But then, what's to understand, it's a comic book on par with "Archie and Jughead"...

LC >;-}>

More like a primitive Brothers Grimm. I say primitive because the writing styles and composition in holy books could be bested by a grade school student.

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A_Nony_Mouse
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The bible is easy to understand

The bible is easy to understand.

It is impossible to reconcile what is in it with what believers say it means.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

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www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Brian37
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Louis_Cypher wrote:I gotta

Louis_Cypher wrote:

I gotta quote Mark Twain here...

“It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand.”



But then, what's to understand, it's a comic book on par with "Archie and Jughead"...

LC >;-}>

No not even on par with Archie and Jughead. Archie and Jughead were peaceful and intended to be funny, and never sold blind obedience through threats or had story lines about genocide and incest. No sane person is going to walk down the street threatening you with Archie and Jughead.

I'd say the best the bible can be is on par with a B-horror movie.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Kapkao
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Brian37 wrote:No not even on

Brian37 wrote:

No not even on par with Archie and Jughead. Archie and Jughead were peaceful and intended to be funny, and never sold blind obedience through threats or had story lines about genocide and incest. No sane person is going to walk down the street threatening you with Archie and Jughead.

I'd say the best the bible can be is on par with a B-horror movie.

 

admit it, brian... the name "Jesus Chainsaw Massacre" is kinda funny for a movie title.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


Vastet
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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:The bible

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

The bible is easy to understand.

It is impossible to reconcile what is in it with what believers say it means.

 

The bible isn't easy to understand unless you've spent WAY too much time watching b movies and reading gossip magazines. The writing level in the bible is seriously lacking. Sticking out tongue

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A_Nony_Mouse
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Vastet wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The bible is easy to understand.

It is impossible to reconcile what is in it with what believers say it means.

The bible isn't easy to understand unless you've spent WAY too much time watching b movies and reading gossip magazines. The writing level in the bible is seriously lacking. :P

It is watching b movies that make it easy to understand. Making sense of either is impossible. Suspend disbelief and both are completely understandable.

But if believers say it makes sense then it is impossible reconcile what is there with what believers say about it.

As to writing level, is not Plan 9 still popular if only for the writing level?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

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www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Vastet
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I never heard of Plan 9

I never heard of Plan 9 before today. And seeing as how I'm big into both reading and sci fi, I should have if it were particularly popular.

You make a good point though. I've more and more started likening theists to fanboys. Their arguments are similarly illogical and blind. Their ability to discuss pure fiction in a real world context is uncanny. Their willingness to do anything to support their chosen product is immeasurable, and the speed at which they revert to cussing is extraordinary. Just like a fanboy.

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Ed Wood

Another vote for Plan 9 from Outer Space and Ed Wood in general, though I generally don't go for sci fi, except for the old Outer Limits and Twilight Zones episodes.


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x wrote:
Another vote for Plan 9 from Outer Space and Ed Wood in general, though I generally don't go for sci fi, except for the old Outer Limits and Twilight Zones episodes.

Rod Serling the man who turned even the most upbeat stories dystopic.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Vastet wrote:
I never heard of Plan 9 before today. And seeing as how I'm big into both reading and sci fi, I should have if it were particularly popular.
 

When you look into it you will wonder how you could have possibly missed it.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


ProzacDeathWish
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Kapkao wrote: admit it,

Kapkao wrote:

 

admit it, brian... the name "Jesus Chainsaw Massacre" is kinda funny for a movie title.

 

                                                         I like it.  Sounds like a good project for director Quinton Tarantino.  Lot's of blood and boob cleavage...

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Vastet

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Vastet wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The bible is easy to understand.

It is impossible to reconcile what is in it with what believers say it means.

The bible isn't easy to understand unless you've spent WAY too much time watching b movies and reading gossip magazines. The writing level in the bible is seriously lacking. :P

It is watching b movies that make it easy to understand. Making sense of either is impossible. Suspend disbelief and both are completely understandable.

But if believers say it makes sense then it is impossible reconcile what is there with what believers say about it.

As to writing level, is not Plan 9 still popular if only for the writing level?

The problem is that you MUST SUSPEND DISBELIEF in order to understand it. It's like watching a horrible movie where my friends say, "Come on! Suspend your disbelief for a moment and enjoy the movie!"

That's when they get you... you drop your common sense and logic and then you become a walking zombie.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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Vastet wrote:I never heard

Vastet wrote:
I never heard of Plan 9 before today. And seeing as how I'm big into both reading and sci fi, I should have if it were particularly popular. You make a good point though. I've more and more started likening theists to fanboys. Their arguments are similarly illogical and blind. Their ability to discuss pure fiction in a real world context is uncanny. Their willingness to do anything to support their chosen product is immeasurable, and the speed at which they revert to cussing is extraordinary. Just like a fanboy.

 

Yeah.. plan 9 from outer space is like an amazing movie to watch... it's so bad it's good.

And yeah... Ed Wood is a god. He made horrible movies but he never let that stop him.

 

I would love to have an original movie poster for Plan 9. They are worth around $4000-5000.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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ProzacDeathWish wrote:
Kapkao wrote:


admit it, brian... the name "Jesus Chainsaw Massacre" is kinda funny for a movie title.

 

                                                         I like it.  Sounds like a good project for director Quinton Tarantino.  Lot's of blood and boob cleavage...

Jesus Christ, Vampire Hunter by the Troma Team

Not their best but it may have been part of the inspiration for the Southpark Jesus.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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digitalbeachbum wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Vastet wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The bible is easy to understand.

It is impossible to reconcile what is in it with what believers say it means.

The bible isn't easy to understand unless you've spent WAY too much time watching b movies and reading gossip magazines. The writing level in the bible is seriously lacking. :P

It is watching b movies that make it easy to understand. Making sense of either is impossible. Suspend disbelief and both are completely understandable.

But if believers say it makes sense then it is impossible reconcile what is there with what believers say about it.

As to writing level, is not Plan 9 still popular if only for the writing level?

The problem is that you MUST SUSPEND DISBELIEF in order to understand it. It's like watching a horrible movie where my friends say, "Come on! Suspend your disbelief for a moment and enjoy the movie!"

That's when they get you... you drop your common sense and logic and then you become a walking zombie

I can find no reason to believe the Septuagint was read as other then entertainment when it first appeared -- the OT being a later translation. I can demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt Josephus did not take it as factual. We sort of like to say the ancients actually believed their myths and the stories of strange people and things in far away lands. By the same reasoning people in the future could look at Stephen King and similar writers and declare we really believed.

But if you look at as Battle of the Titans material it can be entertaining. And if you look at how easy it is make into fiction and realize real history is not easy to make into fiction it is hard to escape the idea it was intended as fiction because of the story teller style.

Some time around the 5th c. the Septuagint was declared scripture and sacred and people started taking it seriously. Consider it something like people starting to say they are Jedi.

=====

BTW: I intended the original as clever observation hoping for a chuckle. I did not expect any response to it.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
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digitalbeachbum wrote:
...

Yeah.. plan 9 from outer space is like an amazing movie to watch... it's so bad it's good.

And yeah... Ed Wood is a god. He made horrible movies but he never let that stop him.

I would love to have an original movie poster for Plan 9. They are worth around $4000-5000.

Quite a war record. www.imdb.com/name/nm0000248/bio

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Jean Chauvin
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Opie

Opie,

Isn't Gott german for God? How convenient.

anyway, he's partially right.

Credo Ut Intellgum as seen in I Corinthians 1:14;16.

Also, according to anything else, it is impossible to know anything. Logically speaking, since Christianity gives the only means for a working actualy epistemology that corresponds to reality, only through the knowledge of faith can one know.

Thus, you don't know if you have a pair of toes on your feet, let alone how to understand the word "THE" in the synatax of John 1:1.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).


Vastet
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In other words, for all you

In other words, jean, for all you know; the bible was written by enemies of the god you desire to worship, and you may have spent your entire life walking the path to hell, and you'll never know because you can't know anything.

lmfao.

Theists are easy.
Dumb theists defeat themselves.
I give you example: jean chauvin, dumb theist.

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Larry Gott
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Yes, Gott is German for God,

Yes, Gott is German for God, an irony which has become worn with age. And you are probably right. I couldn't tell you with certainty what the meaning of "is" is. Eye-wink

Larry Gott