How is this response to refute the Bible?

JesusNEVERexisted
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How is this response to refute the Bible?

In another forum some nutcase claims the bible is more real than other religions so how is this response to refute that?  I also included the link to that forum:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0800320/board/flat/182029148?p=2

Morpheus, you show your IGNORANCE as a ChristNUT! There is NO difference between the stories of the bible and the stories of Greek religion. Remember at one point Greek religion was much bigger than Christianity is now. Zeus was much bigger than Jesus is now. Ancient Greece was basically a Greek theocracy and Christian theocracies no longer exist!

Citing bible characters is just like citing characters in Greek religion or any other religion to support that religion. It means NOTHING. You need historical references outside the bible to corroborate the crazy stories in it and that doesn't exist!

Look at the lack of archaeological evidence below:

http://www.theosophical.org.uk/Biblunsbd.htm


In summing up the significance of these recent findings, Finkelstein and Silberman maintain that "the historical saga contained in the Bible . . . was not a miraculous revelation, but a brilliant product of human imagination

Scholarly findings in archeology, textual analysis, history, and newly translated ancient documents all point to a reality which may be difficult for many traditional and fundamentalist believers to reconcile

 It's why the MYTHICAL Jesus won't ever appear like PROMISED and why no a single supernatural claim in the bible has EVER come true! The very HATEFUL and INTOLERANT Christian religion will continue to die out in the west where we repect ALL beliefs! The bible does just the opposite!
 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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Might want to tone it down a

Might want to tone it down a bit. According to internet ethics, you're shouting and he's talking (though I didn't read every single post there, so maybe someone else is using lots of caps).
Imdb is a very high traffic site. A LOT of people go there to talk about and learn about movies, so a majority will be religious. Just don't use the caps so much, and keep the insults down to mirroring the theist insults back, or ignoring them completely. You're giving a lot of information to digest, and if you want people who aren't already atheists to read what you're saying in such a public domain, looking good is half the battle.
Here we tend to encounter a different sort of theist than the average theist you'll see there.

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Ok, but how was the content

Ok, but how was the content of my response?


pauljohntheskeptic
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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:In

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

In another forum some nutcase claims the bible is more real than other religions so how is this response to refute that?  I also included the link to that forum:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0800320/board/flat/182029148?p=2

Morpheus, you show your IGNORANCE as a ChristNUT! There is NO difference between the stories of the bible and the stories of Greek religion. Remember at one point Greek religion was much bigger than Christianity is now. Zeus was much bigger than Jesus is now. Ancient Greece was basically a Greek theocracy and Christian theocracies no longer exist!

Citing bible characters is just like citing characters in Greek religion or any other religion to support that religion. It means NOTHING. You need historical references outside the bible to corroborate the crazy stories in it and that doesn't exist!

Look at the lack of archaeological evidence below:

http://www.theosophical.org.uk/Biblunsbd.htm


In summing up the significance of these recent findings, Finkelstein and Silberman maintain that "the historical saga contained in the Bible . . . was not a miraculous revelation, but a brilliant product of human imagination

Scholarly findings in archeology, textual analysis, history, and newly translated ancient documents all point to a reality which may be difficult for many traditional and fundamentalist believers to reconcile

 It's why the MYTHICAL Jesus won't ever appear like PROMISED and why no a single supernatural claim in the bible has EVER come true! The very HATEFUL and INTOLERANT Christian religion will continue to die out in the west where we repect ALL beliefs! The bible does just the opposite!
  

 

I'd skip the name calling, such as ignorant Christnut. You can't assume he knows anything about the pagan gods of Greece either. The point I'd make is the stories in the OT are not based in reality. There are historical errors in them, they do not agree with archeology, or histories from other cultures. Which you do mention.

Archeology generally does not tell you what the people of Palestine believed beyond that they all had figures/statues of Asherah in their homes, even in Judah.

I'm not sure why you bring up the Jesus, I did'nt see much in regard to that in the thread. I know you consider him a myth. I consider the Jesus to be a character of unknown origin. Mythical, morphed multiple desert prophets, legends plus Sun Baked desert prophets plus exaggerations to take on other healer's of the time such as Apollonious of Tyana. Maybe, even using Mithras and Apollonious blended with desert prophets.

Real as described, don't think so.

The Jesus obviously had a communcator problem with the Yahweh. Out of range? Batteries dead? The Yahweh was on another frequency? The Jesus never gets it that the god had shifted to plan B or C and is still telling people the "kingdom of god" is at hand", soon, as in their lifetime. Some will not taste death before the Jesus returns with it.

Meanwhile, the Yahweh has put in place plan B or C. Whoops!

Obviously, there are problems with the Paulinity religion. Paul expected the Jesus back ASAP. Did not happen. 

But you don't even have to go to the Jesus to argue that the Bible stories are not based in reality, but are storytelling and legends.

I see you have read Bible Unearthed from Finkelstein. He makes very good points in that book. see pp 97-102, " Who were the Israelites". He argues they were the same as everyone else settling in the area, no Exodus, no invasion.

Like Vastet mentioned, I'd tone it down.

Just saying.

 

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Vastet
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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:Ok,

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Ok, but how was the content of my response?

Nothing wrong that I can see, though of course pauljohntheskeptic has some advice in matters I'm relatively unfamiliar with. Smiling

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JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

 

Morpheus, you show your IGNORANCE as a ChristNUT! There is NO difference between the stories of the bible and the stories of Greek religion. Remember at one point Greek religion was much bigger than Christianity is now. Zeus was much bigger than Jesus is now. Ancient Greece was basically a Greek theocracy and Christian theocracies no longer exist! 

I'm curious, what are the scientific theories on why Greek and Roman mythology died off to be replaced with Christianity?

Why did people accept a religion based on events and characters in a foreign culture?

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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EXC wrote:JesusNEVERexisted

EXC wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Morpheus, you show your IGNORANCE as a ChristNUT! There is NO difference between the stories of the bible and the stories of Greek religion. Remember at one point Greek religion was much bigger than Christianity is now. Zeus was much bigger than Jesus is now. Ancient Greece was basically a Greek theocracy and Christian theocracies no longer exist! 

I'm curious, what are the scientific theories on why Greek and Roman mythology died off to be replaced with Christianity?

Why did people accept a religion based on events and characters in a foreign culture?

Greek mythology died along with Greece, to be replaced by Roman cults.  Rome enforced its cults by the sword -- reject their religion and they rolled into town with troops and killed you.  I don't know how many total Jews the Romans murdered, but it was well over a million.  Judaism was very popular in the day and the usual approach was to slaughter entire cities.  In 37CE, Pilate slaughtered thousands of Jews in Samaria and he was sent back to Rome because he was causing trouble.

When Christianity became the Roman state religion, that did away with the Roman cults.  How Christianity spread from there is mostly a story of ... more swords.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:Greek

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Greek mythology died along with Greece, to be replaced by Roman cults.  Rome enforced its cults by the sword -- reject their religion and they rolled into town with troops and killed you.  I don't know how many total Jews the Romans murdered, but it was well over a million.  Judaism was very popular in the day and the usual approach was to slaughter entire cities.  In 37CE, Pilate slaughtered thousands of Jews in Samaria and he was sent back to Rome because he was causing trouble.

When Christianity became the Roman state religion, that did away with the Roman cults.  How Christianity spread from there is mostly a story of ... more swords.

They popular myth is that the Romans were the violent ones that spread their culture and religion with violence. Christians were just these non-violent people that won over people with their moral lives.

I suspect the Roman leaders found it easier to pacify the unwashed masses with Christianity rather than their own religion. Just as today, the leaders found Christianity a convenient way to convince the masses they are a good person.

I'm not sure if I can learn the real history because we live in such a Christian centric society, the victors always write the history as they see fit.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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FurryCatHerder wrote:EXC

FurryCatHerder wrote:

EXC wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Morpheus, you show your IGNORANCE as a ChristNUT! There is NO difference between the stories of the bible and the stories of Greek religion. Remember at one point Greek religion was much bigger than Christianity is now. Zeus was much bigger than Jesus is now. Ancient Greece was basically a Greek theocracy and Christian theocracies no longer exist! 

I'm curious, what are the scientific theories on why Greek and Roman mythology died off to be replaced with Christianity?

Why did people accept a religion based on events and characters in a foreign culture?

Greek mythology died along with Greece, to be replaced by Roman cults.  Rome enforced its cults by the sword -- reject their religion and they rolled into town with troops and killed you.  I don't know how many total Jews the Romans murdered, but it was well over a million.  Judaism was very popular in the day and the usual approach was to slaughter entire cities.  In 37CE, Pilate slaughtered thousands of Jews in Samaria and he was sent back to Rome because he was causing trouble.

When Christianity became the Roman state religion, that did away with the Roman cults.  How Christianity spread from there is mostly a story of ... more swords.

It's pretty simple. Constantine and Charlamagne said "Convert or DIE".  They basically had no choice.  Some groups like the Celtics and Nordics fought for centuries before giving in but they were FORCED to believe in Palestinian fairy tales!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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Vastet

Vastet wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Ok, but how was the content of my response?

Nothing wrong that I can see, though of course pauljohntheskeptic has some advice in matters I'm relatively unfamiliar with. Smiling

PaulJohntheskeptic and Vastet, the reason I brought up Jesus was because that guy says Jesus is more real than other gods and the bible is more real than other religious texts.  He actually thinks there's more evidence for Jesus than other gods which is crap!  That's why I had to bring it up.

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Vastet wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Ok, but how was the content of my response?

Nothing wrong that I can see, though of course pauljohntheskeptic has some advice in matters I'm relatively unfamiliar with. Smiling

PaulJohntheskeptic and Vastet, the reason I brought up Jesus was because that guy says Jesus is more real than other gods and the bible is more real than other religious texts.  He actually thinks there's more evidence for Jesus than other gods which is crap!  That's why I had to bring it up.

A more accurate way to put it is that there is some evidence for a very small number of early Church players and zero evidence for Jesus.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


Brian37
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I keep bringing this up every single time. As much fun as it is to pick apart holy books, it wouldn't matter to me one lick if a actual man named Jesus existed. The fantastic claims made by all holy books are far more important to me because before you even get to word one, the starting point is the claim of an invisible friend with no physical brain to think with.

There is a glaring lack of evidence of his existence. But the fact remains that claims of magical births and magical deaths are absurd claims.

We know George Washington existed, but no sane person would go around claiming he could fart a Lamborghini out of his ass.

The "motif" of a pure woman and pure birth was around in mythology long before even the alleged time period of the Jesus Character. Isis avoided sex with Osirus by only mating with his penis. This one of the earliest attempts to take the "yuck" factor out of sex. The motif of mother and child was also depicted at the temple of Luxor with Isis holding Horus(the first poplar Madonna and child).

Not even the date December 25th date is unique to Christianity. Long before Christians adapted it for their super hero, Mythras and Atlas were celebrated births on that same day.

The motif of sitting in judgment in the after life was also popularized by the Egyptians where Ra(the sun god) sat with Osirus and Horus(at the right hand of Osirus) in final judgement .

Flood stories pre date the OT as well in the Epic of Gilgamesh. "Eye for an eye" is pre-dated by the Code of Hammurabi.

The names of the characters of the OT come from the Canaanite polytheism. Baal, El, Elohim and even Yahweh (storm god) are names incorporated into current OT mythology.

The earliest ideas of ONE GOD came from Akonaton(sp) AND Zoroaster long before Hebrews adapted the concept.

I highly suspect that there was a power struggle among the Canaanites which lead them to streamline their gods into one becoming the early splinter sect now known as Hebrew/Jewish, religion.

The truth of reality is that gods and religion don't magically pop out of thin air. Humans look at surrounding cultures and market their religions just like Coke and Pepsi market a Cherri soda and compete with each other for buyers.

The two cultures most responsible for today's monotheistic  myths have to be the Egyptians and Canaanites. Considering the close proximity of the region, this is merely more evidence to me that humans merely make up gods and compete to sell them.

 

 

 

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JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Vastet wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Ok, but how was the content of my response?

Nothing wrong that I can see, though of course pauljohntheskeptic has some advice in matters I'm relatively unfamiliar with. Smiling

PaulJohntheskeptic and Vastet, the reason I brought up Jesus was because that guy says Jesus is more real than other gods and the bible is more real than other religious texts.  He actually thinks there's more evidence for Jesus than other gods which is crap!  That's why I had to bring it up.

Yeah, I just don't tend to know or care about the details of religious mythology, so I defer to the expertise of others. About all I can say is that the sources of evidence of a person named jesus are invalid as actual and irrefutable evidence of a person named jesus.

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FurryCatHerder

FurryCatHerder wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Vastet wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Ok, but how was the content of my response?

Nothing wrong that I can see, though of course pauljohntheskeptic has some advice in matters I'm relatively unfamiliar with. Smiling

PaulJohntheskeptic and Vastet, the reason I brought up Jesus was because that guy says Jesus is more real than other gods and the bible is more real than other religious texts.  He actually thinks there's more evidence for Jesus than other gods which is crap!  That's why I had to bring it up.

A more accurate way to put it is that there is some evidence for a very small number of early Church players and zero evidence for Jesus.

Hey nice lady look at the 2 links in my signature plus the one below to see how FICTIONAL Jesus really!  He is simply part of the Judeo-Christian MYTH and nothing else!

http://jdstone.org/cr/files/nohistoricalevidenceofjesus.html

 

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


Vastet
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She was agreeing with you.

She was agreeing with you. Sticking out tongue

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Abrahamic Monotheism

Abrahamic Monotheism predates the Greek and Roman empire - along with the Greco-Roman pantheon.

I even think monotheism per se goes back further than all other forms of religion/theism depending on how you view animism or spirituality in general.


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Lion IRC wrote:I even think

Lion IRC wrote:

I even think monotheism per se goes back further than all other forms of religion/theism depending on how you view animism or spirituality in general.

Not that I know of -- typically gods were associated with different natural functions.  The Romans elevated deity formation and polytheism to an art.  Their situation with Ceres, goddess of breakfast cereals and PB&J's, illustrates how polytheism evolves.

There are people who naively (and rather stupidly ...) try to equate the god-concept within Judaism to other cultures that had one dominant deity, but most do comparative theology by counting on their fingers and toes.  If they can't get past one finger, they call it "monotheism", but a better name is monolatry.  In other words, some person, region, nation-state might have their god, and some other entity theirs, but "my god can beat up your god", rather than "your god and my god are really the same god".

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Lion IRC wrote:Abrahamic

Lion IRC wrote:

Abrahamic Monotheism predates the Greek and Roman empire - along with the Greco-Roman pantheon.

I even think monotheism per se goes back further than all other forms of religion/theism depending on how you view animism or spirituality in general.

To my knowledge, the very first culture that hinted at monotheism was when Egyptian Pharaoh Akenaten created religious reform and more or less had all of his subjects worshipping Aten-Ra. Which would have been in the B.C.'s.

Where do you get the information, that Abrahamic religions would have predated the Greek and Roman empires ?

From what little I know of history, at the time of Julius Caesar, Marc Antony and Cleopatra, when the Roman empire overtook what was left of the Egyptian Reign, there were no "cults" of christianity, as they were then referred to.

Of course, my history is a little shaky.

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― Giordano Bruno


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harley.......

                        If you stay with the word monotheisism and leave out the word christian, then lion IRC's statement is correct.          MAke a note on this. Abraham dates to around 1200 BCE, roughly about the same time has several petty kingdoms in Greece. The Trojan war dates to about 150  years later, still a collection of petty kingdoms. The Greek empier dates from Alexandar the great circa 330 BCE.  Rome was still trying to dominate their Italian neighbors at the time. The Roman Empire can be dated from their victory in the Punic wars circa 220BCE.                    Lion IRC is not right about Abrahamic monotheisim predating Greco-Roman pantheon.  Most of those gods had to exist when they were still wondering clans of Indo-European horsemen.                      You are right when you say Akenaton's monotheisim predates them all. Roughly 1350 BCE.

 

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Lion IRC wrote:Abrahamic

Lion IRC wrote:

Abrahamic Monotheism predates the Greek and Roman empire - along with the Greco-Roman pantheon.

I even think monotheism per se goes back further than all other forms of religion/theism depending on how you view animism or spirituality in general.

Fortunately Abrahamic monotheism is Canaanite polytheism and, as such, doesn't exist.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Vastet wrote:She was

Vastet wrote:
She was agreeing with you. :P

 

I know.  I was showing her my links to show her how strong our positions are!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com