Is the whole atheist "movement" getting boring?

ragdish
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Is the whole atheist "movement" getting boring?

I don't mean this in any derogatory way. I love this site and others. However, I find that what needs to be said has been said. Back in 2006, when this site launched along with the Blasphemy Challenge and the books by Harris, Dawkins, etc.., it was like listening to "Safe European Home" by the Clash. That song starts off with a jolt equivalent to several cups of brewed coffee. And every now and then when I hear that song, I still get the jolt. Unfortunately, I don't with the atheist sites anymore.

5 years later, religion is alive and strong. What great sites like this has achieved is enlightening the deluded sky daddy worshippers and greater civil liberties for unbelievers. Yet many of the key players on the forum have left. No word from Kelly O'Connor or Hambydammit. I especially miss Kelly's large, nice, full, round, soft set of......... blogs!  

I bet it's just me. I tend to get desensitized very easy. It's like watching the same porn flick over and over again and you end up falling asleep 5 minutes into it when Jenna Jameson nibbles on her partner's nether regions.

I love this site and will continue to contribute. Let's all continue to keep up the good fight. Maybe I should just listen to The Clash while surfing RRS.


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ragdish wrote:I don't mean

ragdish wrote:

I don't mean this in any derogatory way. I love this site and others. However, I find that what needs to be said has been said. Back in 2006, when this site launched along with the Blasphemy Challenge and the books by Harris, Dawkins, etc.., it was like listening to "Safe European Home" by the Clash. That song starts off with a jolt equivalent to several cups of brewed coffee. And every now and then when I hear that song, I still get the jolt. Unfortunately, I don't with the atheist sites anymore.

5 years later, religion is alive and strong. What great sites like this has achieved is enlightening the deluded sky daddy worshippers and greater civil liberties for unbelievers. Yet many of the key players on the forum have left. No word from Kelly O'Connor or Hambydammit. I especially miss Kelly's large, nice, full, round, soft set of......... blogs!  

I bet it's just me. I tend to get desensitized very easy. It's like watching the same porn flick over and over again and you end up falling asleep 5 minutes into it when Jenna Jameson nibbles on her partner's nether regions.

I love this site and will continue to contribute. Let's all continue to keep up the good fight. Maybe I should just listen to The Clash while surfing RRS.

Rag, that is short term thinking. Life is never always up or always down, there is an eb and flow, and most movements take a couple decades if not more.

I don't know how long you have been an on line atheist. I started in 01. Back then there were only a handful of atheist websites and back then even the long standing atheist authors and atheist organizations prior were veiwed as the fringe of society. That is not the case on a growing level.

This movement is not a sprint it is a marathon and it will have it's ups and downs but the only thing I see stopping it is apathy and complacency.

It shouldn't even matter which famous atheist in the future gets a statue or which atheist group ends up in a history book, because movements are never one person or one group.

I have seen a clear difference between the state of the movement as it was in 01 compared to where it is today. Today, I cannot do a news google search on the word "atheist' without seeing a story somewhere in the world. I go to local newspaper websites and I see atheists make comments more and more.

Reggie was the first atheist to take up an entire hour in a prime time tv show. Brian was on Nightline. And there are still atheist books coming out as best sellers. Dawkins recently  has put out a kids book about skepticism. Penn Jillette(sp) has put out a best seller. Hitchens has his Catch 22 which is still selling well.

I don't see this as boring at all. I see it as exiting and gives me hope for the future, not just for atheists, but for our entire species because we are exposing people to the benefits of skepticism and questioning and the value of science. That will never get boring to me.

AND several times a year, all around the world all sorts of skeptic and atheist groups are holding various sizes of conventions or meetings. In fact I think Washington DC is having one next year.

There are tons of atheist facebook members and several atheist pages on facebook. There are constant youtube videos submitted by individuals. The Noin Profets do a podcast and a tv show. Neil Degress Tyson the scientist is a frequent guest on Cobert and HE had a Cameo on Big Bang Theory.

Lots of things I see today are impressive and it will only get better from here if all of us keep plugging at it whatever big or small way we can.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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ragdish wrote:I don't mean

ragdish wrote:

I don't mean this in any derogatory way. I love this site and others. However, I find that what needs to be said has been said. Back in 2006, when this site launched along with the Blasphemy Challenge and the books by Harris, Dawkins, etc.., it was like listening to "Safe European Home" by the Clash. That song starts off with a jolt equivalent to several cups of brewed coffee. And every now and then when I hear that song, I still get the jolt. Unfortunately, I don't with the atheist sites anymore.

5 years later, religion is alive and strong. What great sites like this has achieved is enlightening the deluded sky daddy worshippers and greater civil liberties for unbelievers. Yet many of the key players on the forum have left. No word from Kelly O'Connor or Hambydammit. I especially miss Kelly's large, nice, full, round, soft set of......... blogs!  

I know what you're referring to.  I think you may be referring to your own personal journey.  Maybe you are bored because you get it all.  This is part of the reason I don't need/want to have an audio show or appear on video...  I've already said it all.  I've responded to all of the arguments of Christians several times.  I get over this because I know religion is still so prevalent in society.  This is boring to me, but it's not boring to Jon who will sign online tomorrow and decide to search the word atheism for the first time.  Jon grew up as a Christian but because of science class in school he has had his doubts about religion since he was 15.  He's 25 now and has been living the last ten years of his life going along with the theistic flow he was familiar and comfortable with.  He will find this site soon, and when he does he will see a community of people responding to the claims of religion.  He will see his own views written on these pages, some of which are being made by you ragdish.  He may even decide to embrace these feelings he's had, these feelings he's been lead to believe are bad feelings to have.  I know stories like this happen.  

As for where "key players" on the forum have gone all you can say is people move on.  It seems like redneF is moving on, you may consider moving on.  But when you do, you should keep in mind that this journey is very new to someone else.  This journey will begin for them next week.  Give em 5 yrs... they'll be bored.  They should be.  I wish for everyone who ever lives the opportunity to live for a great portion of their life not giving a shit about the ridiculousness that religion has brought the world.  Hamby is doing well on Examiner, pimping his posts in all my facebook groups daily. 

 

Quote:
I bet it's just me. I tend to get desensitized very easy. It's like watching the same porn flick over and over again and you end up falling asleep 5 minutes into it when Jenna Jameson nibbles on her partner's nether regions.

It's not just you.  It happens to many of us.  

 

Quote:
I love this site and will continue to contribute. Let's all continue to keep up the good fight. Maybe I should just listen to The Clash while surfing RRS.

Music or TV is always on when I work.

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Ever since exposure like

Ever since exposure like debates between theists and atheists became more and more prevalent, the state of affairs has shifted to more mainstream and I do understand why you might feel the movement might seem like it's becoming a little tiresome, but keep in mind that we have only just begun.  The more you talk about every issue regarding religion and who's trying to debunk what we've worked so hard to prove was completely erroneous, the more you'll feel better about your part.

 

On a side note, if you want to see Kelly well...there are other ways.  If you're not sure what I mean, just ask

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And maybe I can eventually

And maybe I can eventually sell a Barbecue kitten cook book on HSN.

(Taps finger tips together like Mr Burns) Excellent!

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 Great post Brian37.  I

 Great post Brian37.  I could have just kept my mouth shut and let you say it all.  

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Sage_Override wrote:On a

Sage_Override wrote:

On a side note, if you want to see Kelly well...there are other ways.  If you're not sure what I mean, just ask

Shit, I'll tell him.  It doesn't bother me at all.  Google "Kasey Grant."  She's supposedly not in that line of work now.  I don't know.  We haven't talked for over a year. 

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Sapient wrote: Great post

Sapient wrote:

 Great post Brian37.  I could have just kept my mouth shut and let you say it all.  

Oh no you don't, you aint getting a cut of my Barbecue kitten cook book! THATS MINE, MINE MINE!

(Note to self; Skip the cornball jokes and just say "awe shucks&quotEye-wink

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Quote:Shit, I'll tell him.

Quote:
Shit, I'll tell him.  It doesn't bother me at all.  Google "Kasey Grant."  She's supposedly not in that line of work now.  I don't know.  We haven't talked for over a year.

 

I wasn't sure if that was taboo to discuss on here or not so, thanks for stepping in!    What happened between you two if you don't mind me asking?

 

By the way, she has a dead Youtube channel.  She has these videos of herself playing drums on Band Hero.

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


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Sage_Override wrote: What

Sage_Override wrote:

 What happened between you two if you don't mind me asking?

I don;t mind you asking and I wouldn't mind telling.  However I think much of it is personal enough to her that I don't feel comfortable talking about it.  I wish her nothing but success.  

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On the OP

 

 

It's clear that regardless of the subjective sense of boredom or sameness we might feel after a few years debating this stuff, we can't stop doing it without leaving the field to the godly who are motivated by their own eternal survival. 

If every one had got bored with RRS in 2008 it would have been of no benefit to me when I needed it in 2009. Next year there may be some others who need support. And the year after next and the one after. 

Sadly, unconcrete thinking seems to be the default human cognitive setting. We are red pill. 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Quote:I don;t mind you

Quote:
I don;t mind you asking and I wouldn't mind telling.  However I think much of it is personal enough to her that I don't feel comfortable talking about it.  I wish her nothing but success. 

 

Completely understand, man.  Some shit is just best kept underneath your hat.

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


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I've been debating religion

I've been debating religion online since about '97. Before that I was still questioning more than debating. When I get bored I take time off to do something else for awhile. But it only takes a certain amount of time before theistic stupidity is shoved in my face once again, and the boredom evaporates instantly.

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Vastet wrote:I've been

Vastet wrote:
I've been debating religion online since about '97. Before that I was still questioning more than debating. When I get bored I take time off to do something else for awhile. But it only takes a certain amount of time before theistic stupidity is shoved in my face once again, and the boredom evaporates instantly.

Human ignorance, and when I use the word "ignorance", I don't mean stupid, I mean lack of information, via willful or just no access, will always exist. As such, the need to question, ridicule and blaspheme, is the only form of quality control to keep fascism at bay. It won't create a utopia, but it can and does insure that no form of monopoly of power can arise. It is the benefit of fixing mistakes or making changes and allows that to always exist.

 

 

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Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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ragdish wrote:I don't mean

ragdish wrote:

I don't mean this in any derogatory way. I love this site and others. However, I find that what needs to be said has been said. Back in 2006, when this site launched along with the Blasphemy Challenge and the books by Harris, Dawkins, etc.., it was like listening to "Safe European Home" by the Clash. That song starts off with a jolt equivalent to several cups of brewed coffee. And every now and then when I hear that song, I still get the jolt. Unfortunately, I don't with the atheist sites anymore.

5 years later, religion is alive and strong. What great sites like this has achieved is enlightening the deluded sky daddy worshippers and greater civil liberties for unbelievers. Yet many of the key players on the forum have left. No word from Kelly O'Connor or Hambydammit. I especially miss Kelly's large, nice, full, round, soft set of......... blogs!  

I bet it's just me. I tend to get desensitized very easy. It's like watching the same porn flick over and over again and you end up falling asleep 5 minutes into it when Jenna Jameson nibbles on her partner's nether regions.

I love this site and will continue to contribute. Let's all continue to keep up the good fight. Maybe I should just listen to The Clash while surfing RRS.

OK. I'll bite this bait Mr Troll.

People who get bored with religion stop going to church or go to another religion. Humans have a tendency to do this with sports, sex, food, tv shows, etc.; it's nothing new.

And as for your "religion is alive and strong", which one? There are over four dozen religions in this world with dozens of other "splinter factions" and not to forget mentioning all those "small time cults".

I posted many months ago an article which said that religions are actually shrinking as a whole. As the population of the planet grows, religions are losing followers. In America we are at an all time high of people who claim not to be affiliated with any religion.

So if you are bored with Atheism then stop pretending to be one.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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Vastet wrote:I've been

Vastet wrote:
I've been debating religion online since about '97. Before that I was still questioning more than debating. When I get bored I take time off to do something else for awhile. But it only takes a certain amount of time before theistic stupidity is shoved in my face once again, and the boredom evaporates instantly.

Well said.

I often equate my time on the forums discussing religion, cars, politics, cooking or any other subject, items of rotation. One month I'm strong on bar-b-que sauces or dry rub, next month I'm on a bonsai forum asking about a bug or diseases.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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digitalbeachbum wrote:Vastet

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Vastet wrote:
I've been debating religion online since about '97. Before that I was still questioning more than debating. When I get bored I take time off to do something else for awhile. But it only takes a certain amount of time before theistic stupidity is shoved in my face once again, and the boredom evaporates instantly.

Well said.

I often equate my time on the forums discussing religion, cars, politics, cooking or any other subject, items of rotation. One month I'm strong on bar-b-que sauces or dry rub, next month I'm on a bonsai forum asking about a bug or diseases.

 

"Dry rub"? Is that what they are calling it these days?

Couldn't resist, some things are just toooooooooooooooooooooooo easy.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

ragdish wrote:

I don't mean this in any derogatory way. I love this site and others. However, I find that what needs to be said has been said. Back in 2006, when this site launched along with the Blasphemy Challenge and the books by Harris, Dawkins, etc.., it was like listening to "Safe European Home" by the Clash. That song starts off with a jolt equivalent to several cups of brewed coffee. And every now and then when I hear that song, I still get the jolt. Unfortunately, I don't with the atheist sites anymore.

5 years later, religion is alive and strong. What great sites like this has achieved is enlightening the deluded sky daddy worshippers and greater civil liberties for unbelievers. Yet many of the key players on the forum have left. No word from Kelly O'Connor or Hambydammit. I especially miss Kelly's large, nice, full, round, soft set of......... blogs!  

I bet it's just me. I tend to get desensitized very easy. It's like watching the same porn flick over and over again and you end up falling asleep 5 minutes into it when Jenna Jameson nibbles on her partner's nether regions.

I love this site and will continue to contribute. Let's all continue to keep up the good fight. Maybe I should just listen to The Clash while surfing RRS.

OK. I'll bite this bait Mr Troll.

People who get bored with religion stop going to church or go to another religion. Humans have a tendency to do this with sports, sex, food, tv shows, etc.; it's nothing new.

And as for your "religion is alive and strong", which one? There are over four dozen religions in this world with dozens of other "splinter factions" and not to forget mentioning all those "small time cults".

I posted many months ago an article which said that religions are actually shrinking as a whole. As the population of the planet grows, religions are losing followers. In America we are at an all time high of people who claim not to be affiliated with any religion.

So if you are bored with Atheism then stop pretending to be one.

 

Anyone!! Please, anyone!! Was my opening thread in any way trollish. It is because of folks like digitalbeachbum that I choose to be a loner atheist and not join movements.


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ragdish

ragdish wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

ragdish wrote:

I don't mean this in any derogatory way. I love this site and others. However, I find that what needs to be said has been said. Back in 2006, when this site launched along with the Blasphemy Challenge and the books by Harris, Dawkins, etc.., it was like listening to "Safe European Home" by the Clash. That song starts off with a jolt equivalent to several cups of brewed coffee. And every now and then when I hear that song, I still get the jolt. Unfortunately, I don't with the atheist sites anymore.

5 years later, religion is alive and strong. What great sites like this has achieved is enlightening the deluded sky daddy worshippers and greater civil liberties for unbelievers. Yet many of the key players on the forum have left. No word from Kelly O'Connor or Hambydammit. I especially miss Kelly's large, nice, full, round, soft set of......... blogs!  

I bet it's just me. I tend to get desensitized very easy. It's like watching the same porn flick over and over again and you end up falling asleep 5 minutes into it when Jenna Jameson nibbles on her partner's nether regions.

I love this site and will continue to contribute. Let's all continue to keep up the good fight. Maybe I should just listen to The Clash while surfing RRS.

OK. I'll bite this bait Mr Troll.

People who get bored with religion stop going to church or go to another religion. Humans have a tendency to do this with sports, sex, food, tv shows, etc.; it's nothing new.

And as for your "religion is alive and strong", which one? There are over four dozen religions in this world with dozens of other "splinter factions" and not to forget mentioning all those "small time cults".

I posted many months ago an article which said that religions are actually shrinking as a whole. As the population of the planet grows, religions are losing followers. In America we are at an all time high of people who claim not to be affiliated with any religion.

So if you are bored with Atheism then stop pretending to be one.

 

Anyone!! Please, anyone!! Was my opening thread in any way trollish. It is because of folks like digitalbeachbum that I choose to be a loner atheist and not join movements.

 

You didn't seem the least bit trollish to me.


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Shit Like This

It is shit like this that re-energizes me.

 

And a cast of thousands

 

Also should I get bored with religious stuff, I will pop over to Science Daily for a cleansing and reality check.

 

 

 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

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I never get bored.

There are so many AvT fora...

I never get bored.


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ragdish wrote:Anyone!!

ragdish wrote:

Anyone!! Please, anyone!! Was my opening thread in any way trollish. It is because of folks like digitalbeachbum that I choose to be a loner atheist and not join movements.

No.

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ragdish wrote:Yet many of

ragdish wrote:

Yet many of the key players on the forum have left.

Well, it's a lucky day for you, ragdish.

The immortal Watcher is back!  I think I'm very "key".

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Watcher wrote:ragdish

Watcher wrote:

ragdish wrote:

Yet many of the key players on the forum have left.

Well, it's a lucky day for you, ragdish.

The immortal Watcher is back!  I think I'm very "key".

 

And where the hell have you been? lol

 

Rag, I didn't think you were trollish. I think he was just in a bad mood after reading some theist posts. It happens to all of us.

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Vastet wrote:And where the

Vastet wrote:

And where the hell have you been? lol

*grins*  Hey Vastet.

I was distracted because I was arguing with Yankees about the American Civil War on a couple other forums.

That's always interesting.

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Brian37 wrote:"Dry rub"? Is

Brian37 wrote:

"Dry rub"? Is that what they are calling it these days?

Couldn't resist, some things are just toooooooooooooooooooooooo easy.

lol. yeah. it's a dry rub, but I'll not go further trying to explain it because some one is actually going to think I'm talking about things other than bar-b-quing.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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ragdish wrote:Anyone!!

ragdish wrote:

Anyone!! Please, anyone!! Was my opening thread in any way trollish. It is because of folks like digitalbeachbum that I choose to be a loner atheist and not join movements.

My apologies if you weren't, but when I saw "religion is alive and strong" I think some one is trying to bait.

I wouldn't expect that this website or any other would end religion. It will always exist, but never in the same way.

I am of the opinion that if you got the founding fathers of this country together or even further back, got the original followers (or even Jesus) to view how religion has been warped, they would say "wtf happened".

Personally I don't believe Jesus even existed, but if he did, he'd put the smackdown on these priests and preachers for profiting from the poor and raping little boys.

 

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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atheists hiding in the clergy?

digitalbeachbum wrote:

...Personally I don't believe Jesus even existed, but if he did, he'd put the smackdown on these priests and preachers for profiting from the poor and raping little boys.

Can you be sure those arent atheists hiding in the clergy?

 


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All the evidence points to

All the evidence points to the contrary. Especially the bit when the church covers it up.

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(my now-lost $0.02 on this thread, still 3 months too late)

I had a really brilliant reply to post in this thread but, unfortunately, the dog ate it for breakfast.  (Yes, just like some kid's homework)

Meaning, some really dumb bitch who's about to their head chopped off shoved my notebook and (old, cheapo) dinner tray into the floor while seeking attention. I hate it when that happens. I guess I'll be having dog meat for supper, then doing a Saw 8 with her hide afterwards.

ANYWAYS...

 

Long story short: Ditto to what B37 and Sap said + the 'Bronze Age' of RRS (for posterity's sake, we'll assume that's between New Years '06-'09) has long been done with, and many of it's participants jumped over to URLs more befitting their style of antitheism. Some of them converted back to theism. Others probably got involved with actual activism rather than sitting behind their keyboard and mouse all day. Some of them got burnt out with RRS; Matt Shizzle, for instance, was burnt out because he disapproved of the style of moderation here (he didn't like mods deciding their own rules to enforce and enforcing them as they saw fit.), so he became an asshat about it, then got banned.

Other people lost their jobs. I think it's safe to assume that AiGS has lost his home internet access since then. I think it's also safe to assume that a few of the past posters @ RDN and RRS are have been evicted from their living space, or had to switch to a lower-paying job since then. Economic Crisis has been kicking everyone in the balls for 4 straight years, here.

I don't care for the 'Bronze Age' posts here (Paisley being the best example, but there are others) nor do I regret missing out on nat's "flames". People want a place to vent about religion and harshly criticize anyone they don't agree with, that's their moral dilemma. Maybe this is what your "jolt" revolves around; I don't know. People liked having a place rage against and mock religion, apparently. I prefer to carefully deconstruct arguments and viewpoints that come from an irrational or evidence-challenged mindset. That's my 'itch' in life. That some people believe their viewpoints or claims are somehow above being challenged is the virtual "icing on the cake", for me.

I'll add one last thought to Brian's and Sap's and suggest that, sometimes, some movements really do "run their course", and then fade into history. The late 19th and early 20th century is ample proof of that. Is this also true of "antitheism", right now? Hard to tell, but presently a lot of people are finding themselves in binds that would have been inconceivable 4-5 years ago. The phrase "need before greed" immediately comes to mind, only it is more a question of "need before activism".

Quote:
Let's all continue to keep up the good fight. Maybe I should just listen to The Clash while surfing RRS.

Ah, hell... if I ever found some cause that could be described as "the good fight", you'll be the first to know. I don't believe much of the human race is capable, rational or morally introspective enough to know what a "good fight" is. It seems like the perfect undescribed epithet in the western world, to me.

I support the western interpretation of secularism (Gunslinger or no Gunslinger) because I believe it's necessary for the survival of modern civilization. No visionary 'right' or 'wrong' needed for that.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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There is a lot to be done.

for me it is gettting increasingly exciting. Yes, there are all those Dawkins, Betrand Russell, Hitchens, Harris ideas out there, but I am eager to think outside the box and go in a direction while using those arguments.  The great thing about atheism is that it is merely the lack of belief and knowledge of God while giving you a great framework for standards of evidence. And while I want to see religion evolve itself into extinction I am not interested in trying to make everybody atheists or think like me.  I am interested in increasing standards of evidence to just some faith in a book and whether they choose to believe in a diety or not based off life experience or whatever, that should provide them with a less intrusive and superior moral guide than the Bible or Quran.  I also am interested in secular ethics, how matter could technically reform again in infinity to possibly recreate us in another universe depending on where dark energy is taking our galaxy. I don't agree with everything Dawkins does even if I agree with his views on religion and God.  I think something that is a middle between Dawkins abrasiveness and Neil degrasse Tyson/Carl Sagan's politeness is better (sort of like what Sapient's position is).   I am also further interested in deconstructing both the Bible and Quran to demonstrate its absurdities and immorality and further improvising the arguments.  I would like to write a secular novel/graphic novel of a fictional ancient biblical stories based directly off the Bible's God but with a fictional Hebrew protaganist that shows just how horrible this monster is portrayed (sort of like frailty set in a Biblical story. I also would like to further detail a scale that shows how agnosticism and atheism co-exist much like Dawkin's 1-7 but one that I hope is a vast improvement and articulates itself very clearly while taking into effect philosophical possibility and rational/common sense.  This is in light of a recent misunderstanding that was made when Dawkins said "he can't be sure there isn't a God," and suddenly the newspapers were saying he wasn't an atheist anymore due to misunderstanding him.   There is a lot to be done.


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Hey Opie

Hey Opie,

Absolutely. They are increbibly boring, unless they have a Christian that is educated like myself. Atheists use the same old 18th century arguments that have been refuted to death, use the same methods of epistemology that has been refuted by the founders of the method they use. boring.

But if you want excitement, come hike down Mt. Saint helens with me this summer with a geologist and we can make things a little more interesting.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).


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^ wishful thinking lol. I'm

^ wishful thinking lol. I'm sure the backers of every authoritarian structure that ever existed figured their opposition would simply give up and go away given sufficient time to burn out. Right up to the moment they lost it all, and became a footnote in history.

Fact is that for everyone who has left or passed on, two more have joined. Not everyone who joins posts enough to become an easily recognised member of the forum, but many do. And many people who've been here a long time are obviously still here. Brian and Brian (lol) are the longest running, currently active, members of the site. Next is me (Sticking out tongue), but there are a number of people who joined fairly quickly after me who are still active. I could start naming names and dates, but it would take quite awhile. All you have to do to see the community is alive and well is to look at posting frequencies and joined dates. We aren't all a bunch of people who joined in 06, then never saw new blood and slowly dwindled away.

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We're a collection of

We're a collection of veterans and newcomers that see a healthy and continuous change, which is a sign of prosperity.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Jean Chauvin wrote:Hey

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hey Opie,

Absolutely. They are increbibly boring, unless they have a Christian that is educated like myself. Atheists use the same old 18th century arguments that have been refuted to death, use the same methods of epistemology that has been refuted by the founders of the method they use. boring.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Vastet wrote:We're a

Vastet wrote:
We're a collection of veterans and newcomers that see a healthy and continuous change, which is a sign of prosperity.

Heh... we "adapt" like so many other organisms on the planet.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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The religions are still intact:

ragdish wrote:

I don't mean this in any derogatory way. I love this site and others. However, I find that what needs to be said has been said. Back in 2006, when this site launched along with the Blasphemy Challenge and the books by Harris, Dawkins, etc.., it was like listening to "Safe European Home" by the Clash. That song starts off with a jolt equivalent to several cups of brewed coffee. And every now and then when I hear that song, I still get the jolt. Unfortunately, I don't with the atheist sites anymore.

5 years later, religion is alive and strong. What great sites like this has achieved is enlightening the deluded sky daddy worshippers and greater civil liberties for unbelievers. Yet many of the key players on the forum have left. No word from Kelly O'Connor or Hambydammit. I especially miss Kelly's large, nice, full, round, soft set of......... blogs!  

I bet it's just me. I tend to get desensitized very easy. It's like watching the same porn flick over and over again and you end up falling asleep 5 minutes into it when Jenna Jameson nibbles on her partner's nether regions.

I love this site and will continue to contribute. Let's all continue to keep up the good fight. Maybe I should just listen to The Clash while surfing RRS.

It's not likely it could be done in six years. Atheism has no place for them to go. You can't get someone to leave their house without giving them some place else to go. And it may not be wise to burn their house down to get them to leave. But they may not care if you burn their house down if you build them a better one before lighting their,s up. You may have to consider burning your own house down also and everyone move to a new one. You must also contemplate that everyone may be  living in the same house, and all think they are living in the right room as compared to everyone else,s. So, under those circumstances it may not be possible to burn down the house and everyone looses. The other option is for everyone to pitch in to build a new house with all the rooms the same, and then burn the old house down, but this is the least likely to happen.

   At the same time: if you're going to kick the crap out them when they're on your territory what will they think. On one hand they are invited here only to get caught in a character assassination plot. One may assume that you want them to become as you. Not gonna happen. My experience here is--- God or no God, their religion has made them better people then here. Their religions at least requires them to treat others with respect and politness. However---Atheism offers  them nothing and solves no problems. If you can't or won't give them at least as good as they already got, or maybe better---you've got no case. It doesn't make any difference in having astute knowledge of physics because many of them have the same. What they care about is converting you---not gonna happen, right. And you want to convert them---not gonna happen, right. So here you all are pointing guns at each other and neither has any ammo.

Everyone is  stuck.    Smiling   or is it   (: <----no, it's not that one.

   

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.


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Old Seer

Old Seer wrote:

However---Atheism offers  them nothing   

Reality isn't nothing to me.  It doesn't have to be nothing to you.

 

- Brian Sapient


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this is meant as constructive critisism.

Sapient wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

However---Atheism offers  them nothing   

Reality isn't nothing to me.  It doesn't have to be nothing to you.

 

But--- that puts us back to who,s realty and what is it based on. To give them "there's no God" is going no where. I agree that God doesn't exist as they say. But that doesn't do anything for them---you have to prove it. From our observation post both sides are in the same fault---unidirectional mindsets. Their religion allows social bonds which is one reason they believe what they do---it gets and keeps them together. Their congregation causes an emotional experience which they need for contentment. Atheism doesn't create what they need and in the attempt to institute the "no God' idea will dissolve the social bonding they need leaving no house to go to. The "no God" direction gives them no place to go. No matter what reality they have, true or false, it serves their purpose of social cohesion. If Atheism doesn't provide an alternative to church going then it's asking them to socially hang in mid air. Your part in this reality struggle needs to be--the reality that they have a reality that's not yours or is false, and live with it---we do. There seems to be no objective to Atheism other then the removal of the belief in a God. If we see this correct---Atheism is to bring peace to the world because religion is the fault for the world being the way it is. That's not reality as we see it. The world is the way it is because of the pursuit of material gratification, god or no god. That's a mental condition of everyone not just the religious.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.


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Old Seer wrote:Sapient

Old Seer wrote:

Sapient wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

However---Atheism offers  them nothing   

Reality isn't nothing to me.  It doesn't have to be nothing to you.

 

But--- that puts us back to who,s realty and what is it based on. To give them "there's no God" is going no where. I agree that God doesn't exist as they say. But that doesn't do anything for them---you have to prove it. From our observation post both sides are in the same fault---unidirectional mindsets. Their religion allows social bonds which is one reason they believe what they do---it gets and keeps them together. Their congregation causes an emotional experience which they need for contentment. Atheism doesn't create what they need and in the attempt to institute the "no God' idea will dissolve the social bonding they need leaving no house to go to. The "no God" direction gives them no place to go. No matter what reality they have, true or false, it serves their purpose of social cohesion. If Atheism doesn't provide an alternative to church going then it's asking them to socially hang in mid air. Your part in this reality struggle needs to be--the reality that they have a reality that's not yours or is false, and live with it---we do. There seems to be no objective to Atheism other then the removal of the belief in a God. If we see this correct---Atheism is to bring peace to the world because religion is the fault for the world being the way it is. That's not reality as we see it. The world is the way it is because of the pursuit of material gratification, god or no god. That's a mental condition of everyone not just the religious.

The old "If you don't have a God you don't have meaning to your life" argument? Are you that intellectually bankrupt that you can't bring meaning to your own life? I don't think you are but I feel bad that you do think you are.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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My post isn't about me

jcgadfly wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

Sapient wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

However---Atheism offers  them nothing   

Reality isn't nothing to me.  It doesn't have to be nothing to you.

 

But--- that puts us back to who,s realty and what is it based on. To give them "there's no God" is going no where. I agree that God doesn't exist as they say. But that doesn't do anything for them---you have to prove it. From our observation post both sides are in the same fault---unidirectional mindsets. Their religion allows social bonds which is one reason they believe what they do---it gets and keeps them together. Their congregation causes an emotional experience which they need for contentment. Atheism doesn't create what they need and in the attempt to institute the "no God' idea will dissolve the social bonding they need leaving no house to go to. The "no God" direction gives them no place to go. No matter what reality they have, true or false, it serves their purpose of social cohesion. If Atheism doesn't provide an alternative to church going then it's asking them to socially hang in mid air. Your part in this reality struggle needs to be--the reality that they have a reality that's not yours or is false, and live with it---we do. There seems to be no objective to Atheism other then the removal of the belief in a God. If we see this correct---Atheism is to bring peace to the world because religion is the fault for the world being the way it is. That's not reality as we see it. The world is the way it is because of the pursuit of material gratification, god or no god. That's a mental condition of everyone not just the religious.

The old "If you don't have a God you don't have meaning to your life" argument? Are you that intellectually bankrupt that you can't bring meaning to your own life? I don't think you are but I feel bad that you do think you are.

It's about them. I'm not a theist even though somebody labeled me as one. I don't believe there is a "god" per sec. I merely understand the forces that are around me and that are greater or lesser then myself. I'm with Adam and their mental makeup.  And that's nothing other then belief in "the self". The term "god" isn't even on the Hebrew language. By logical deduction Adam had no concept of "god", and the God term relative to the book is strictly a European attachment, and under the circumstances  Alpha Smurf would be an Atheist in the eye of the Pope, and in turn that would also mean "Adam" is an Atheist. I'm attempting to give you all an understanding of them. It's "them" you're dealing with in so far as making any changes in their beliefs. A person is made up of beliefs or has beliefs that they need or find useful. If you want to change their beliefs you want to change their persons----so what are they supposed to change to (see---I'm back to about them, not me). Atheism has nothing for them to go to. The "no God" idea is of no value to them. You have to give them an understanding in the value of "no God". So- if it's about stop the killing, Stalin said there,s no God and believed such, and killed over 26000000 floks. Atheism has no record of ---no killing.

So here we are again----You've gone the same way as past religions. You all say that because someone doesn't go along with your beliefs they are intellectually bankrupt. That manner of mind is what caused Stalin, past religions and government powers to kill the people they did. So, from our perspective, if Atheism becomes the norm, and all they that are considered intellectually bankrupt could be deemed a public threat and get the Stalin treatment.  Think about that ---we see it.    Smiling

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.


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Old Seer wrote:jcgadfly

Old Seer wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

Sapient wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

However---Atheism offers  them nothing   

Reality isn't nothing to me.  It doesn't have to be nothing to you.

 

But--- that puts us back to who,s realty and what is it based on. To give them "there's no God" is going no where. I agree that God doesn't exist as they say. But that doesn't do anything for them---you have to prove it. From our observation post both sides are in the same fault---unidirectional mindsets. Their religion allows social bonds which is one reason they believe what they do---it gets and keeps them together. Their congregation causes an emotional experience which they need for contentment. Atheism doesn't create what they need and in the attempt to institute the "no God' idea will dissolve the social bonding they need leaving no house to go to. The "no God" direction gives them no place to go. No matter what reality they have, true or false, it serves their purpose of social cohesion. If Atheism doesn't provide an alternative to church going then it's asking them to socially hang in mid air. Your part in this reality struggle needs to be--the reality that they have a reality that's not yours or is false, and live with it---we do. There seems to be no objective to Atheism other then the removal of the belief in a God. If we see this correct---Atheism is to bring peace to the world because religion is the fault for the world being the way it is. That's not reality as we see it. The world is the way it is because of the pursuit of material gratification, god or no god. That's a mental condition of everyone not just the religious.

The old "If you don't have a God you don't have meaning to your life" argument? Are you that intellectually bankrupt that you can't bring meaning to your own life? I don't think you are but I feel bad that you do think you are.

It's about them. I'm not a theist even though somebody labeled me as one. I don't believe there is a "god" per sec. I merely understand the forces that are around me and that are greater or lesser then myself. I'm with Adam and their mental makeup.  And that's nothing other then belief in "the self". The term "god" isn't even on the Hebrew language. By logical deduction Adam had no concept of "god", and the God term relative to the book is strictly a European attachment, and under the circumstances  Alpha Smurf would be an Atheist in the eye of the Pope, and in turn that would also mean "Adam" is an Atheist. I'm attempting to give you all an understanding of them. It's "them" you're dealing with in so far as making any changes in their beliefs. A person is made up of beliefs or has beliefs that they need or find useful. If you want to change their beliefs you want to change their persons----so what are they supposed to change to (see---I'm back to about them, not me). Atheism has nothing for them to go to. The "no God" idea is of no value to them. You have to give them an understanding in the value of "no God". So- if it's about stop the killing, Stalin said there,s no God and believed such, and killed over 26000000 floks. Atheism has no record of ---no killing.

So here we are again----You've gone the same way as past religions. You all say that because someone doesn't go along with your beliefs they are intellectually bankrupt. That manner of mind is what caused Stalin, past religions and government powers to kill the people they did. So, from our perspective, if Atheism becomes the norm, and all they that are considered intellectually bankrupt could be deemed a public threat and get the Stalin treatment.  Think about that ---we see it.    Smiling

So if it doesn't fit with what your created religion says why do you use the old Christian arguments to attack atheism? Stalin, for example, did not kill anyone in the name of atheism. He killed them because they were threats to his power.

 I accused you of intellectual bankruptcy not because you disagree with my position but because you used the "you need something greater than yourself to give your life meaning" argument and stopped looking for your purpose to your life.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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jcgadfly wrote:Old Seer

jcgadfly wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

Sapient wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

However---Atheism offers  them nothing   

Reality isn't nothing to me.  It doesn't have to be nothing to you.

 

But--- that puts us back to who,s realty and what is it based on. To give them "there's no God" is going no where. I agree that God doesn't exist as they say. But that doesn't do anything for them---you have to prove it. From our observation post both sides are in the same fault---unidirectional mindsets. Their religion allows social bonds which is one reason they believe what they do---it gets and keeps them together. Their congregation causes an emotional experience which they need for contentment. Atheism doesn't create what they need and in the attempt to institute the "no God' idea will dissolve the social bonding they need leaving no house to go to. The "no God" direction gives them no place to go. No matter what reality they have, true or false, it serves their purpose of social cohesion. If Atheism doesn't provide an alternative to church going then it's asking them to socially hang in mid air. Your part in this reality struggle needs to be--the reality that they have a reality that's not yours or is false, and live with it---we do. There seems to be no objective to Atheism other then the removal of the belief in a God. If we see this correct---Atheism is to bring peace to the world because religion is the fault for the world being the way it is. That's not reality as we see it. The world is the way it is because of the pursuit of material gratification, god or no god. That's a mental condition of everyone not just the religious.

The old "If you don't have a God you don't have meaning to your life" argument? Are you that intellectually bankrupt that you can't bring meaning to your own life? I don't think you are but I feel bad that you do think you are.

It's about them. I'm not a theist even though somebody labeled me as one. I don't believe there is a "god" per sec. I merely understand the forces that are around me and that are greater or lesser then myself. I'm with Adam and their mental makeup.  And that's nothing other then belief in "the self". The term "god" isn't even on the Hebrew language. By logical deduction Adam had no concept of "god", and the God term relative to the book is strictly a European attachment, and under the circumstances  Alpha Smurf would be an Atheist in the eye of the Pope, and in turn that would also mean "Adam" is an Atheist. I'm attempting to give you all an understanding of them. It's "them" you're dealing with in so far as making any changes in their beliefs. A person is made up of beliefs or has beliefs that they need or find useful. If you want to change their beliefs you want to change their persons----so what are they supposed to change to (see---I'm back to about them, not me). Atheism has nothing for them to go to. The "no God" idea is of no value to them. You have to give them an understanding in the value of "no God". So- if it's about stop the killing, Stalin said there,s no God and believed such, and killed over 26000000 floks. Atheism has no record of ---no killing.

So here we are again----You've gone the same way as past religions. You all say that because someone doesn't go along with your beliefs they are intellectually bankrupt. That manner of mind is what caused Stalin, past religions and government powers to kill the people they did. So, from our perspective, if Atheism becomes the norm, and all they that are considered intellectually bankrupt could be deemed a public threat and get the Stalin treatment.  Think about that ---we see it.    Smiling

So if it doesn't fit with what your created religion says why do you use the old Christian arguments to attack atheism? Stalin, for example, did not kill anyone in the name of atheism. He killed them because they were threats to his power.

 I accused you of intellectual bankruptcy not because you disagree with my position but because you used the "you need something greater than yourself to give your life meaning" argument and stopped looking for your purpose to your life.

I'm not arguing, I'm stating what we see. I'm not looking for any meaning of life-I've already acquired it's meaning to me. I don't look, I encounter. You all keep thinking I'm them. I'm not. It looks as though you think we think as you , not so. This is why we are hard to understand. Those who claim to be Christian (which they,re not) think I'm you. Heck of a fix right. Well no, we let others be as they may. We have no fixation to change anyone. If what we convey changes no one then so be it. God to us is one lording it over others---we don't do that, that's the concept of Europeans. We don't believe in lording it over others so----we don't believe in God. Such a god can only exist if one makes them self that way.    That's why the world is the way it is. Cease lording it over each other and God goes away. In the Smurf world god went away. So---we are not like you or they. Advantage happens as a course of nature. When one seeks the advantage he goes against nature---then he created himself as god to be greater then nature which is unnatural and a mere invention.  We could claim that all of you are intellectually bankrupt. We won't because it would not be true. We see high levels of intellect in progress here. But consider---- the Menza society---- only the top 2% of the geniuses (at least perceived as so) in the world are admitted. But---can they solve the worlds problems---nope. So, so much for intellect. Amount of intellect isn't the question. The question is---what's stifling any amount of intellect. It is the median use of intellect and the direction guided, or constructed. All, bar none are under greater forces then them selves---it applies to all, and understanding/recognizing those forces is necessary.

OK--Stalin. But, did he not shut down religion and kill all or any possible that were religious. I say it's so. Anti religion was a key component in his government. 

Civilization creates people from it's perspective of reality. If that reality is constructed by those that rule for their ideas to be imposed on the people who's reality does one go by. If they constructed the reality for their advantage then there reality is a lie. If the existence of god is a lie (and is as we know it)  then the god no god is moot. You have to find all the lies you're under, and there,s many of them. Maybe you find it hard to understand us because we know the lies and you don't.  In this case if we convey truth (that's hypothetical) the truth may be construed as a lie.  You've got one of the false realities recognized. Now you may need to find the others.  Smiling

 

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Old Seer wrote:God to us is

Old Seer wrote:
God to us is one lording it over others---we don't do that, that's the concept of Europeans.

Huh ? Is it ? Oh, okay.

 

Old Seer wrote:
In the Smurf world god went away.
  

In the what now ? 

Hey, I'm not bored anymore !

 


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Anonymouse wrote:Old Seer

Anonymouse wrote:

Old Seer wrote:
God to us is one lording it over others---we don't do that, that's the concept of Europeans.

Huh ? Is it ? Oh, okay.

 

Old Seer wrote:
In the Smurf world god went away.
  

In the what now ? 

Hey, I'm not bored anymore !

 

Hey OK, glad I made your day. Look forward to more ----now and then.

You have to do better thinking and understand the context of the post. The Euros carried their traditions into their bible interpretations, they don't belong there----the domination of others. I'm not dealing with the entire world in the post. It's Euro verses the book.  Smiling

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.


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Old Seer wrote:jcgadfly

Old Seer wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

Sapient wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

However---Atheism offers  them nothing   

Reality isn't nothing to me.  It doesn't have to be nothing to you.

 

But--- that puts us back to who,s realty and what is it based on. To give them "there's no God" is going no where. I agree that God doesn't exist as they say. But that doesn't do anything for them---you have to prove it. From our observation post both sides are in the same fault---unidirectional mindsets. Their religion allows social bonds which is one reason they believe what they do---it gets and keeps them together. Their congregation causes an emotional experience which they need for contentment. Atheism doesn't create what they need and in the attempt to institute the "no God' idea will dissolve the social bonding they need leaving no house to go to. The "no God" direction gives them no place to go. No matter what reality they have, true or false, it serves their purpose of social cohesion. If Atheism doesn't provide an alternative to church going then it's asking them to socially hang in mid air. Your part in this reality struggle needs to be--the reality that they have a reality that's not yours or is false, and live with it---we do. There seems to be no objective to Atheism other then the removal of the belief in a God. If we see this correct---Atheism is to bring peace to the world because religion is the fault for the world being the way it is. That's not reality as we see it. The world is the way it is because of the pursuit of material gratification, god or no god. That's a mental condition of everyone not just the religious.

The old "If you don't have a God you don't have meaning to your life" argument? Are you that intellectually bankrupt that you can't bring meaning to your own life? I don't think you are but I feel bad that you do think you are.

It's about them. I'm not a theist even though somebody labeled me as one. I don't believe there is a "god" per sec. I merely understand the forces that are around me and that are greater or lesser then myself. I'm with Adam and their mental makeup.  And that's nothing other then belief in "the self". The term "god" isn't even on the Hebrew language. By logical deduction Adam had no concept of "god", and the God term relative to the book is strictly a European attachment, and under the circumstances  Alpha Smurf would be an Atheist in the eye of the Pope, and in turn that would also mean "Adam" is an Atheist. I'm attempting to give you all an understanding of them. It's "them" you're dealing with in so far as making any changes in their beliefs. A person is made up of beliefs or has beliefs that they need or find useful. If you want to change their beliefs you want to change their persons----so what are they supposed to change to (see---I'm back to about them, not me). Atheism has nothing for them to go to. The "no God" idea is of no value to them. You have to give them an understanding in the value of "no God". So- if it's about stop the killing, Stalin said there,s no God and believed such, and killed over 26000000 floks. Atheism has no record of ---no killing.

So here we are again----You've gone the same way as past religions. You all say that because someone doesn't go along with your beliefs they are intellectually bankrupt. That manner of mind is what caused Stalin, past religions and government powers to kill the people they did. So, from our perspective, if Atheism becomes the norm, and all they that are considered intellectually bankrupt could be deemed a public threat and get the Stalin treatment.  Think about that ---we see it.    Smiling

So if it doesn't fit with what your created religion says why do you use the old Christian arguments to attack atheism? Stalin, for example, did not kill anyone in the name of atheism. He killed them because they were threats to his power.

 I accused you of intellectual bankruptcy not because you disagree with my position but because you used the "you need something greater than yourself to give your life meaning" argument and stopped looking for your purpose to your life.

I'm not arguing, I'm stating what we see. I'm not looking for any meaning of life-I've already acquired it's meaning to me. I don't look, I encounter. You all keep thinking I'm them. I'm not. It looks as though you think we think as you , not so. This is why we are hard to understand. Those who claim to be Christian (which they,re not) think I'm you. Heck of a fix right. Well no, we let others be as they may. We have no fixation to change anyone. If what we convey changes no one then so be it. God to us is one lording it over others---we don't do that, that's the concept of Europeans. We don't believe in lording it over others so----we don't believe in God. Such a god can only exist if one makes them self that way.    That's why the world is the way it is. Cease lording it over each other and God goes away. In the Smurf world god went away. So---we are not like you or they. Advantage happens as a course of nature. When one seeks the advantage he goes against nature---then he created himself as god to be greater then nature which is unnatural and a mere invention.  We could claim that all of you are intellectually bankrupt. We won't because it would not be true. We see high levels of intellect in progress here. But consider---- the Menza society---- only the top 2% of the geniuses (at least perceived as so) in the world are admitted. But---can they solve the worlds problems---nope. So, so much for intellect. Amount of intellect isn't the question. The question is---what's stifling any amount of intellect. It is the median use of intellect and the direction guided, or constructed. All, bar none are under greater forces then them selves---it applies to all, and understanding/recognizing those forces is necessary.

OK--Stalin. But, did he not shut down religion and kill all or any possible that were religious. I say it's so. Anti religion was a key component in his government. 

Civilization creates people from it's perspective of reality. If that reality is constructed by those that rule for their ideas to be imposed on the people who's reality does one go by. If they constructed the reality for their advantage then there reality is a lie. If the existence of god is a lie (and is as we know it)  then the god no god is moot. You have to find all the lies you're under, and there,s many of them. Maybe you find it hard to understand us because we know the lies and you don't.  In this case if we convey truth (that's hypothetical) the truth may be construed as a lie.  You've got one of the false realities recognized. Now you may need to find the others.  Smiling

 

You can say it's so (Stalin killing in the name of atheism) all you want - doesn't make it real. You might as well blame his mustache for the homicides.

As for the type of theist you are - you lost me at Alpha Smurf. You don't want to be compared to a Christian - stop using their arguments and phrasing them as "we vs. you" as they do. What I did was make you vs. me. - still is.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Old Seer wrote:So- if it's

Old Seer wrote:

So- if it's about stop the killing, Stalin said there,s no God and believed such, and killed over 26000000 floks. Atheism has no record of ---no killing.

So here we are again----You've gone the same way as past religions. You all say that because someone doesn't go along with your beliefs they are intellectually bankrupt. That manner of mind is what caused Stalin, past religions and government powers to kill the people they did. So, from our perspective, if Atheism becomes the norm, and all they that are considered intellectually bankrupt could be deemed a public threat and get the Stalin treatment.  Think about that ---we see it.    Smiling

Actually, have you ever studied the culture that Stalin was raised in?

*shudders*

First they wrapped babies up tightly in little bundles and left them to their own devices hours at a time.  Often hanging them on hooks while they worked in fields.  It wasn't considered a good idea to pay any attention to their cries so they often stuffed rags in their mouths in some rudimentary fashion of a pacifier.  They pretty much grew up the first two years of their lives as excrement and piss soaked sponges.

Add that the physical abuse that was heaped on Stalin by his parents.  When his mother lay dying all Stalin could say to her was "Why did you always beat me so hard?".  Not an exact quote but that's what he asked her.

Do you know that he spent years and years in religious schools?  And they totured the crap out of the students in those establishments.

No wonder he turned out to be such a hard-assed monster.

You give me a baby Joseph Stalin and I'll raise you a good, decent citizen and neighbor, my friend.  And one not any more interested in the idea of god than the original was.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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jcgadfly wrote:Old Seer

jcgadfly wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

Sapient wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

However---Atheism offers  them nothing   

Reality isn't nothing to me.  It doesn't have to be nothing to you.

 

But--- that puts us back to who,s realty and what is it based on. To give them "there's no God" is going no where. I agree that God doesn't exist as they say. But that doesn't do anything for them---you have to prove it. From our observation post both sides are in the same fault---unidirectional mindsets. Their religion allows social bonds which is one reason they believe what they do---it gets and keeps them together. Their congregation causes an emotional experience which they need for contentment. Atheism doesn't create what they need and in the attempt to institute the "no God' idea will dissolve the social bonding they need leaving no house to go to. The "no God" direction gives them no place to go. No matter what reality they have, true or false, it serves their purpose of social cohesion. If Atheism doesn't provide an alternative to church going then it's asking them to socially hang in mid air. Your part in this reality struggle needs to be--the reality that they have a reality that's not yours or is false, and live with it---we do. There seems to be no objective to Atheism other then the removal of the belief in a God. If we see this correct---Atheism is to bring peace to the world because religion is the fault for the world being the way it is. That's not reality as we see it. The world is the way it is because of the pursuit of material gratification, god or no god. That's a mental condition of everyone not just the religious.

The old "If you don't have a God you don't have meaning to your life" argument? Are you that intellectually bankrupt that you can't bring meaning to your own life? I don't think you are but I feel bad that you do think you are.

It's about them. I'm not a theist even though somebody labeled me as one. I don't believe there is a "god" per sec. I merely understand the forces that are around me and that are greater or lesser then myself. I'm with Adam and their mental makeup.  And that's nothing other then belief in "the self". The term "god" isn't even on the Hebrew language. By logical deduction Adam had no concept of "god", and the God term relative to the book is strictly a European attachment, and under the circumstances  Alpha Smurf would be an Atheist in the eye of the Pope, and in turn that would also mean "Adam" is an Atheist. I'm attempting to give you all an understanding of them. It's "them" you're dealing with in so far as making any changes in their beliefs. A person is made up of beliefs or has beliefs that they need or find useful. If you want to change their beliefs you want to change their persons----so what are they supposed to change to (see---I'm back to about them, not me). Atheism has nothing for them to go to. The "no God" idea is of no value to them. You have to give them an understanding in the value of "no God". So- if it's about stop the killing, Stalin said there,s no God and believed such, and killed over 26000000 floks. Atheism has no record of ---no killing.

So here we are again----You've gone the same way as past religions. You all say that because someone doesn't go along with your beliefs they are intellectually bankrupt. That manner of mind is what caused Stalin, past religions and government powers to kill the people they did. So, from our perspective, if Atheism becomes the norm, and all they that are considered intellectually bankrupt could be deemed a public threat and get the Stalin treatment.  Think about that ---we see it.    Smiling

So if it doesn't fit with what your created religion says why do you use the old Christian arguments to attack atheism? Stalin, for example, did not kill anyone in the name of atheism. He killed them because they were threats to his power.

 I accused you of intellectual bankruptcy not because you disagree with my position but because you used the "you need something greater than yourself to give your life meaning" argument and stopped looking for your purpose to your life.

I'm not arguing, I'm stating what we see. I'm not looking for any meaning of life-I've already acquired it's meaning to me. I don't look, I encounter. You all keep thinking I'm them. I'm not. It looks as though you think we think as you , not so. This is why we are hard to understand. Those who claim to be Christian (which they,re not) think I'm you. Heck of a fix right. Well no, we let others be as they may. We have no fixation to change anyone. If what we convey changes no one then so be it. God to us is one lording it over others---we don't do that, that's the concept of Europeans. We don't believe in lording it over others so----we don't believe in God. Such a god can only exist if one makes them self that way.    That's why the world is the way it is. Cease lording it over each other and God goes away. In the Smurf world god went away. So---we are not like you or they. Advantage happens as a course of nature. When one seeks the advantage he goes against nature---then he created himself as god to be greater then nature which is unnatural and a mere invention.  We could claim that all of you are intellectually bankrupt. We won't because it would not be true. We see high levels of intellect in progress here. But consider---- the Menza society---- only the top 2% of the geniuses (at least perceived as so) in the world are admitted. But---can they solve the worlds problems---nope. So, so much for intellect. Amount of intellect isn't the question. The question is---what's stifling any amount of intellect. It is the median use of intellect and the direction guided, or constructed. All, bar none are under greater forces then them selves---it applies to all, and understanding/recognizing those forces is necessary.

OK--Stalin. But, did he not shut down religion and kill all or any possible that were religious. I say it's so. Anti religion was a key component in his government. 

Civilization creates people from it's perspective of reality. If that reality is constructed by those that rule for their ideas to be imposed on the people who's reality does one go by. If they constructed the reality for their advantage then there reality is a lie. If the existence of god is a lie (and is as we know it)  then the god no god is moot. You have to find all the lies you're under, and there,s many of them. Maybe you find it hard to understand us because we know the lies and you don't.  In this case if we convey truth (that's hypothetical) the truth may be construed as a lie.  You've got one of the false realities recognized. Now you may need to find the others.  Smiling

 

You can say it's so (Stalin killing in the name of atheism) all you want - doesn't make it real. You might as well blame his mustache for the homicides.

As for the type of theist you are - you lost me at Alpha Smurf. You don't want to be compared to a Christian - stop using their arguments and phrasing them as "we vs. you" as they do. What I did was make you vs. me. - still is.

So, you want me to think your way then. We understand "what " Christianity is, they have some good stuff as well as anyone else.  I 'm not going to get into a "you verses me". I'm not a competitor. Adam is the basis of the Hebrew religion and the formation of Hebrews original religion. It's the one thy fell away from, Adam and Christianity are the same, except Christianity has changes and additions. We have not adapted to the changes---that leaves us Adamites not Christians. I'm not a Theist. I just explained as to why. Adam was just Adam and had no concept of any God. Neither do we.

  At one time there were people in England who called themselves Adamites. Their idea of Adam was nudism. So, the migrants from Africa to the Tigress Euphrates area, threw off their lion skins and pooof became Adam?  ?  ?. Now- I point this out to show how ridiculous the Euro mind is when connected to the book. They conjured up a religion from this passage in Genesis---and they were naked and not ashamed. So what do we (sorry Alpha smurf is Alpha smurf. It was a team effort and we go by the book--give credit to whom credit is due. If I go the "I" then I'm the greatest intellectual that ever lived. The Menza floks are fools and pikers, stupid and ignorant. But-we know better, we take no pride in our intellect.

 Naked and not ashamed is they were as children-innocent, they had nothing to hide, they weren't liars, cheats, and dishonest, predators upon each other----nothing to hide from reach other---notice--in the OT --the child will sit next to the lion. That means a child like entity (Adam and Christianity alike require a return to a childlike mental condition) the person will no longer be a predator( the main tenant of civilization) and return from where they came--- to the beginning. Adam is not the physical, he is the mental. Now, that's the Smurfs interpretation of one mere passage from the book. There are only two possible interpretations of that passage. One---the Smurfs---2- the Euros. which do you prefer. If you prefer theirs you're stuck with what you got, and you want me to have the same so I match your interpretation because it fits yours. Not gonna happen, We're right.  Now--if we're right---you've been had by your own mental direction.

Or-- if all of you here studied the book so well ---why didn't you see this---Why. It is an alternative to the one you have---why didn't you see it. Why didn't the pope see it, why didn't the president of the US see it, why didn't all your high kaflootin academic type see it----because----because---you all think the same. You are all hiding and ashamed to show yourselves.

 Now--show another interpretation if possible, or make the choice---which is correct. (I'll leave it up to you) only---only one can be correct. Don't tell me about it---tell each other. If ours is correct then we also have the rest correct. No competition here, don't need it.

 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.


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..to sit down with a text and ask another person what that means

 Your making people's day all over the place, within this Thread :¬ 

  Seriously,  Sometimes it is incredibly wise, good and necessary to sit down with a text and ask another person what that means. That is as true today as ever it was w/ 'anyone' (especially if you have a radically different idea, not shared).

 


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So I see it's still the same

So I see it's still the same 'ol same 'ol from christians and atheist movement after the 5 years I've been here


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This thread is a perfect

This thread is a perfect example of why I wish (like many others have stated) that this forum was more active.  Back then Freethinking Anonymous was actually active, and you didn't have to worry about Theists who want to deliberately come and hijack your thread.  

The same old tactics theists always use, not to win an argument, but to obfuscate, and derail a subject, are what's going on here.   Stalin, Hitler... really Old Seer, that all you got?  Weak sauce, old refuted rehashed and regurgitated garbage... and the theist's last bastion... REVISIONIST HISTORY.  

On other forums I've been on, posters that regularly hijack and derail threads are warned... eventually banned if it's necessary and they're clearly continuing to do it on purpose.  Mods tend to close threads and encourage the OP or other posters to start a fresh, un-hijacked thread to get the OT back on track.  Point being, there are things that can easily be done about it.

 

To the original topic, I do unfortunately think things have stagnated.  Years ago the media was paying attention to the Four Horsemen making waves.  Now they don't seem to be as active in the spotlight.  The last real attention I saw was when Hitch passed (may Joe Pesci save his soul) but much of that was portraying him as a malcontent.  Since the height of the movement the fundies have further hijacked the Republican party, and the political conversations in this country.  They've gotten way, way more brazen and vocal.  It seems to be reaching a fever pitch where they feel emboldened to say anything they damn well please, be it about rape victims, gays, women, or retards (Anne Coulter's words.)   I really think we've lost ground worse than ever before.

The problem, as I see it, is we don't have an answer for this hijacking.  Honestly I see an easy opening to make a documentary showing how fucking ludicrous the right has gotten.  Sam Harris had it right, when he talked about moderates.  Moderates are the key.  They unknowingly shield the extremists by taking offense any time someone's faith is questioned.  If a film could raise the consciousness of the moderates to see just how far the extremists have gone, I think things might start to change.  Moderates need to be aware of how far they've gotten into every area of gov't and the legal system, and just how fucking hateful they are now being out in the open.  Saying things nobody would have dreamed of saying in public just 5 years ago, then in the wake of the backlash several others (even political candidates in races) actually stand up to defend their insane positions.  Right now moderates seem to brush it off, or be halfway unaware or this trend.  If you guys as Atheists are not fully aware of how bad it is, just subscribe to Right Wing Watch Blog on Youtube.... The Young Turks is another good one.  I'm here to tell you it's BAD!  The crazy is coming in a torrent, worse than I ever thought it would get this fast.

Right now, I think non-believers and even religious people that believe in Separation of Church and State need to be more active than ever.  Unfortunately I don't see that.  I do see people that are bored of slogging through the same old mire of fundie BS, creationism, hatred etc.   IMHO We need to brainstorm on how to refresh and re-energize the movement.  

 

"They always say the same thing; 'But evolution is only a theory!!' Which is true, I guess, and it's good they say that I think, it gives you hope that they feel the same about the theory of Gravity and they might just float the f**k away."