Accept Jesus, Get A Server

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Accept Jesus, Get A Server

Subject line says it all.  The Rational Response Squad needs to recruit more Christians so they can get a new server.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Ah, your true identity is

Ah, your true identity is revealed. A 16 year old self serving valley girl. No big surprise there.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Vastet wrote:Ah, your true

Vastet wrote:
Ah, your true identity is revealed. A 16 year old self serving valley girl. No big surprise there.

Like, I'm so SHURE your gaming GOD-NESS is so =totally= cool and pimple-faced!

Try explaining, with some degree of specificity, what you meant by your original claims that you're such a poor and persecute and unable to hang out in cyber-space bunch of people.

Because your claims are facially false.  And being ignorant about what was or wasn't on the Internet, or being discussed all throughout Europe and North America 300+ years ago doesn't make it true.  It just serves as further confirmation that you're ignorant.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:You

FurryCatHerder wrote:

You don't go to school to be a Jew, or to "think like a Jew". 

no shit, which is why i said it was a false analogy to compare it with being a geologist.

i have not lived judaism.  i am not a jew.  however, by virtue of my studying i am more competent to talk about the history of judaism and jewish thought than many jews are.  the "half of the picture" i don't "get" is that i didn't physically step on a glass at my wedding, i'm not circumcised, i never canted, i don't light hanukkah candles, i eat pork, etc., etc.  that's ok.  lacking those things does not hinder my ability to grasp isaac luria, rashi, and adin steinsaltz.  

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:FurryCatHerder

iwbiek wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

You don't go to school to be a Jew, or to "think like a Jew". 

no shit, which is why i said it was a false analogy to compare it with being a geologist.

Quote:

Then you rebutted my analogy for a completely pointless reason, which I am starting to grasp.

Quote:
i have not lived judaism.  i am not a jew.  however, by virtue of my studying i am more competent to talk about the history of judaism and jewish thought than many jews are.  the "half of the picture" i don't "get" is that i didn't physically step on a glass at my wedding, i'm not circumcised, i never canted, i don't light hanukkah candles, i eat pork, etc., etc.  that's ok.  lacking those things does not hinder my ability to grasp isaac luria, rashi, and adin steinsaltz.  

You cannot grasp Judaism, or Geology, based solely on studying a subject.  Nor can you understand Judaism or Geology solely by listing the things you do or don't do, or looking at a pile of rocks.

I was a software architect in a previous career (I'm old -- I'm on Career #2) and I'd run into people with advanced degrees in software engineering who were convinced they "knew" how to write software.  Usually because they had a better degree, from a better university.  It took me a few years to teach them that they didn't know a damned thing, then change them from a bunch of overpaid, often egotistical, typists into actual software engineers.

That you think grasping those writers has =anthying= to do with Judaism tells me how poorly you actually grasp Judaism.  Much like the freshly minted MSCS people I had on my staff.  Judaism isn't "books" and it isn't book learning and it isn't Rashi.  Yes, Rashi wrote a lot, and much of his writing is very informative, but Rashi isn't G-d, nor will reading and learning and memorizing all of Rashi and feeling you comprehend it completely teach you what Judaism =is=.

We're the People Of The Book, not People Who Just Read Books.

Anyway, I just finished laying out a PCB.  Time to do a bit of house cleaning!

Shavuah Tov!

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:We're

FurryCatHerder wrote:

We're the People Of The Book, not People Who Just Read Books.

no, you're not.  you're people, period.  you are nothing more special or set apart than anyone else.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:FurryCatHerder

iwbiek wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

We're the People Of The Book, not People Who Just Read Books.

no, you're not.  you're people, period.  you are nothing more special or set apart than anyone else.

It was a play on words.

But apparently you've not actually read and comprehended Rashi.  See B'reshit, somewhere in the second chapter, if memory serves correctly.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:Vastet

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Ah, your true identity is revealed. A 16 year old self serving valley girl. No big surprise there.

Like, I'm so SHURE your gaming GOD-NESS is so =totally= cool and pimple-faced!

Try explaining, with some degree of specificity, what you meant by your original claims that you're such a poor and persecute and unable to hang out in cyber-space bunch of people.

Because your claims are facially false.  And being ignorant about what was or wasn't on the Internet, or being discussed all throughout Europe and North America 300+ years ago doesn't make it true.  It just serves as further confirmation that you're ignorant.

A truly yawn-worthy response. It is far too late to feign interest in what I was saying. You should have attempted it sooner. I probably would have obliged. But you just started trolling and making a fool of yourself to such a degree as to get a shiny badge describing your activity. Congrats!

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Vastet wrote:A truly

Vastet wrote:
A truly yawn-worthy response. It is far too late to feign interest in what I was saying. You should have attempted it sooner. I probably would have obliged. But you just started trolling and making a fool of yourself to such a degree as to get a shiny badge describing your activity. Congrats!

My son, his girlfriend, and many of my closest friends are Atheists.  Would you =please= become a Southern Baptist or something?  You really are a sad excuse for a human being and it would be better if you had once less thing in common with people I care about.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Your opinion is irrelevant.

Your opinion is irrelevant. You'll notice noone is agreeing with anything you've said, and you're being owned on multiple fronts by multiple posters. Of course you're delusional and believe you're actually defeating arguments, but that's where our amusement comes in.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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FurryCatHerder wrote:But

FurryCatHerder wrote:

But apparently you've not actually read and comprehended Rashi.  See B'reshit, somewhere in the second chapter, if memory serves correctly.

and heeeeere we go again.  it always comes back round to this ridiculous kind of obfuscation with you.

listen, just because i'm familiar with these writers to one degree or another, doesn't mean i consider them somehow wiser than the rest of us.  i'd be just as apt to trust what my construction worker neighbor says as what rashi said.

just because rashi says you are or aren't something doesn't make it so.  yes, i know what "people of the book" means: nothing, when you get right down to it.  it means you identify yourselves with a collection of texts about desert nomads and petty buffer states, to which you trace yourselves through a mythical family linkage (if there ever were ancient hebrews, there's probably precious little or none of their DNA in most modern jews, especially ashkenazim), and you claim these texts are still "living" by overlaying them with centuries of commentators, and commentators on the commentators, until their original meaning has been chewed beyond recognition.

then, ironically, you bitch at the christians for doing the same thing.  honestly, if any group has truly preserved the integrity of the pentateuch, it's the samaritans. 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Vastet wrote:Your opinion is

Vastet wrote:
Your opinion is irrelevant. You'll notice noone is agreeing with anything you've said, and you're being owned on multiple fronts by multiple posters. Of course you're delusional and believe you're actually defeating arguments, but that's where our amusement comes in.

This is an Atheist website, I expect nothing less.

Perhaps you're unaware that arguments like these can neither be won nor lost, which is why you =really= need to become a Southern Baptist.  Some of the posters here understand that arguing about whether or not, for example, the actions of James in Acts amounts to "excommunication", is pointless, except to show that (perhaps) Paul's status within the Church was not as great as modern Christians have been led to believe.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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iwbiek wrote:FurryCatHerder

iwbiek wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

But apparently you've not actually read and comprehended Rashi.  See B'reshit, somewhere in the second chapter, if memory serves correctly.

and heeeeere we go again.  it always comes back round to this ridiculous kind of obfuscation with you.

listen, just because i'm familiar with these writers to one degree or another, doesn't mean i consider them somehow wiser than the rest of us.  i'd be just as apt to trust what my construction worker neighbor says as what rashi said.

just because rashi says you are or aren't something doesn't make it so.  yes, i know what "people of the book" means: nothing, when you get right down to it.  it means you identify yourselves with a collection of texts about desert nomads and petty buffer states, to which you trace yourselves through a mythical family linkage (if there ever were ancient hebrews, there's probably precious little or none of their DNA in most modern jews, especially ashkenazim), and you claim these texts are still "living" by overlaying them with centuries of commentators, and commentators on the commentators, until their original meaning has been chewed beyond recognition.

then, ironically, you bitch at the christians for doing the same thing.  honestly, if any group has truly preserved the integrity of the pentateuch, it's the samaritans. 

And there you have it -- the final "value" of your religious education: Nothing.

Rashi's commentary on which people are better than which other people is that because we all come from the same parents, no one can say "My parents are better than yours".  This same concept exists within Islam, though I'm not as well versed with the sources, and besides, we're discussing Rashi.

Your "chewed beyond recognition" is both ignorant and dishonest.  First, Rashi is no more an authority -- like, "we now follow Rashi, not Moses or G-d" -- than the cats that come begging for food most every morning.  Nor is the Talmud the authority, like we follow Adin Steinsaltz and not Rashi, Moses or G-d.  Nor have we replaced Sifrei Torah on Mondays, Thursdays and Shabbat with Daf Yomi -- the practice of dividing the Torah into "one parsha per week" might be an "invention" (no, it is an "invention", there is no "might be" about it), but it's still the Torah, not Rambam, not Rashi, not Adin Steinsaltz, the Jerusalem or Babylonian Talmuds, the Mishnah or whatever.  Whether you believe the Torah was fabricated by Ezra, people after Ezra, or actually made it out of the desert with Joshuah, that's still what we use.

As for any remaining DNA, as a "people", based on scientific analysis, our closest living relatives are Palestinian Arabs, then other Arabs.  And that most certainly =is= a scientific fact.  No religious texts required.  And it applies to Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and in some cases, groups of people with claim to be "members of some lost tribe".

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:And

FurryCatHerder wrote:

And there you have it -- the final "value" of your religious education: Nothing.

not quite.  it gives me the ability to recognize bullshit artists in my fie.

FunnyCatHerder wrote:

As for any remaining DNA, as a "people", based on scientific analysis, our closest living relatives are Palestinian Arabs, then other Arabs.  And that most certainly =is= a scientific fact.  No religious texts required.  And it applies to Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and in some cases, groups of people with claim to be "members of some lost tribe".

a. your "people's" relationship to palestinian arabs proves neither the existence of the biblical hebrews, nor your "people's" connection to them.

b. i would reeeeaaally like you to link me to that study, so i can see where they took their sample groups from, how they drew their conclusions, etc.  if you furnish me the link, or give me the title of the book or journal, i promise i'll read it.  but i'm not holding my breath, since you won't even pinpoint bible verses for me.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:FurryCatHerder

iwbiek wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

And there you have it -- the final "value" of your religious education: Nothing.

not quite.  it gives me the ability to recognize bullshit artists in my fie.

FunnyCatHerder wrote:

As for any remaining DNA, as a "people", based on scientific analysis, our closest living relatives are Palestinian Arabs, then other Arabs.  And that most certainly =is= a scientific fact.  No religious texts required.  And it applies to Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and in some cases, groups of people with claim to be "members of some lost tribe".

a. your "people's" relationship to palestinian arabs proves neither the existence of the biblical hebrews, nor your "people's" connection to them.

I seriously don't get your logic here.  The Arab peoples haven't been dispersed to anywhere near the extent that Jews have.  That Jews share genetic markers most closely with Palestinian Arabs, then next with non-Palestinian Arabs, means we come from there.  Really.

Quote:
b. i would reeeeaaally like you to link me to that study, so i can see where they took their sample groups from, how they drew their conclusions, etc.  if you furnish me the link, or give me the title of the book or journal, i promise i'll read it.  but i'm not holding my breath, since you won't even pinpoint bible verses for me.

I =really= need to be working on a batch of PCBs, so if you don't like the short list of pointers, I'll see about getting you some more.  But have a short list --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews

http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/01/shared-genetic-heritage-of-jews-and.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/?tool=pubmed

Insha'allah, I'll have more time later.  But seriously, I have two weeks of business travel coming up, and getting work done today is important.  Feel free to start a new thread if you'd like to discuss this as a separate topic from our usual round of whacking each other.  You're smart.  I like you.  I just have a business to run ...

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:iwbiek

 

FunnyCatHerder wrote:

As for any remaining DNA, as a "people", based on scientific analysis, our closest living relatives are Palestinian Arabs, then other Arabs.  And that most certainly =is= a scientific fact.  No religious texts required.  And it applies to Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and in some cases, groups of people with claim to be "members of some lost tribe".

 

 

I =really= need to be working on a batch of PCBs, so if you don't like the short list of pointers, I'll see about getting you some more.  But have a short list --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews

http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/01/shared-genetic-heritage-of-jews-and.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/?tool=pubmed

 

 

Interesting Furry.  You seem to be very obsessed with the racial pedigree of the The Chosen People.  Your posts continually show an inordinate enthusiasm for genetics as it relates to your own ethnicity.  Your cultural mindset even expresses insiders ( Jews ) and outsiders ( Goyim ) with convenient terms that identify your racial priorities.  Very revealing.

 

Even more noteworthy is your admitted support for the use of genocide ( you'd willingly "put me up againt the wall"  ) remember ?  Kill'em All, Let G-d Sort'em Out !  It's interesting to see that you are so morally uninhibited.  

 So, to summarize your position is encompassed by embracing matters of racial purity combined with the acceptance of genocide as a valid tactic.  Wow.  That is truly astounding.

 

 

                  Oh, btw, how do you translate "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher" into Hebrew ?


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Interesting Furry.  You seem to be very obsessed with the racial pedigree of the The Chosen People.  Your posts continually show an inordinate enthusiasm for genetics as it relates to your own ethnicity.  Your cultural mindset even expresses insiders ( Jews ) and outsiders ( Goyim ) with convenient terms that identify your racial priorities.  Very revealing.

There are no "insiders" and "outsiders" in Judaism.  All people are created "B'tzelem Elokim", in the image of G-d.

But since you have this thing for being a stark raving mad anti-Semite, here's one for you --

A "righteous Gentile" has the same or higher standing, within Judaism, than the Kohen Gadol, the High Priest.  I know this comes as a surprise, but before I ran back to the religion of my ancestors, =technically= I was "better" than after I did the whole "Jew Thing."

The mistaken notion is that Jews are "chosen" in a =good= way.  Like, being a Jew makes us better.  It doesn't.  It's like being the teachers pet -- you get held to a higher standard of conduct and when you fail, G-d smacks the crap out of you.  But if you're all that jealous of us "Chosen People", feel free to join us.  You too can be "chosen"!  Somehow, every time I make this offer no one takes me up on it.  I guess you actually know that this "Chosen" thing ain't such a good deal.

And "Goyim"?  It means "people".  Jews are also "goyim".

Quote:
וְאֶֽעֶשְׂךָ לְגֹוי גָּדֹול וַאֲבָרֶכְךָ וַאֲגַדְּלָה שְׁמֶךָ וֶהְיֵה בְּרָכָֽה

Second word (right to left) -- G-d is saying we're going to be a "Goy Gadol", a great nation.  That's Genesis 12:2, if you'd like to look it up in English, though I recommend sticking with the Hebrew.  Fewer opportunities for you to lie about "goyim".

[qupte]Even more noteworthy is your admitted support for the use of genocide ( you'd willingly "put me up againt the wall"  ) remember ?  Kill'em All, Let G-d Sort'em Out !  It's interesting to see that you are so morally uninhibited.

Genocide?  Not unless an entire people were evil beyond redemption, which are the only instances of G-d saying "Go kill all of them."  Do you want to stand up for people who tossed children into the mouth of their false god so they could burn to a crisp, and a slew of other major crimes against humanity.

The Phillistines, who we also wiped out, weren't much better -- they liked to launch raiding parties on whomever they could plunder, steal whatever they could steal, then kill whomever they could kill.  Ramses (not sure which one) shoved them out of Egypt and into modern day Gaza.  We proceeded to kill them because they persisted in their attacks.  Are you also going to stand up for a people who made an entire culture out of attacking others and killing innocent men, women and children?  Is that an example of Atheist Morality?

Quote:
So, to summarize your position is encompassed by embracing matters of racial purity combined with the acceptance of genocide as a valid tactic.  Wow.  That is truly astounding.

And you're intellectually dishonest, ignorant =and= racist.

Quote:

Oh, btw, how do you translate "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher" into Hebrew ?

You might want to bone up on Godwin's Law.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Quote:This is an Atheist

Quote:
This is an Atheist website, I expect nothing less.

This discussion has nothing to do with the veracity of atheism, and STILL noone agrees with you. Not even a theist.

Quote:
Perhaps you're unaware that arguments like these can neither be won nor lost

If you really believed that we wouldn't be having this...conversation.

Quote:
Some of the posters here understand that arguing about whether or not, for example, the actions of James in Acts amounts to "excommunication", is pointless, except to show that (perhaps) Paul's status within the Church was not as great as modern Christians have been led to believe.

Irrelevant. No religion has a shred of validity to it. Very little religious "history" has anything to do with reality or history. Whatever the liars who wrote scripture came up with and whenever it happened has little or nothing to do with what actually happened and when. Discussing the false history theists designed is pointless.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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LOL @ jews are a race.

LOL @ jews are a race. Proven false. Therefore racism is not applicable. But you're a whiner with an inferiority complex who projects her ignorance, arrogance, and stupidity onto others. Probably thinking otherwise makes you feel better about yourself, but we see right through you.

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FurryCatHerder wrote:Do you

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Do you want to stand up for people who tossed children into the mouth of their false god so they could burn to a crisp, and a slew of other major crimes against humanity.

i'd like to see any clear evidence of these "crimes" outside of the hebrew bible account.  you'll have to excuse me if i rarely trust the record of the victors.

i also think it's funny that god was so pissed off about what these people allegedly did that their children and farm animals had to die for it too.

in fact, let's back up a bit: the israelites had to kill aaaall these people--men, women, and children--because their crime was...sacrificing their children.  so god had to...kill children...to keep children...from being killed.

...uh-huh...

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:FurryCatHerder

iwbiek wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Do you want to stand up for people who tossed children into the mouth of their false god so they could burn to a crisp, and a slew of other major crimes against humanity.

i'd like to see any clear evidence of these "crimes" outside of the hebrew bible account.  you'll have to excuse me if i rarely trust the record of the victors.

That goes both ways -- there's no evidence we even did the crimes.  Which sort of puts the ball back in your court -- we admit to killing people who were intrinsically evil, and you want evidence they were evil, but don't want evidence (beyond our saying we did it ...) that we even committed this "crime" in the first place.

Quote:
i also think it's funny that god was so pissed off about what these people allegedly did that their children and farm animals had to die for it too.

in fact, let's back up a bit: the israelites had to kill aaaall these people--men, women, and children--because their crime was...sacrificing their children.  so god had to...kill children...to keep children...from being killed.

You need to ask for a refund for that Jew-ology degree you got.  Seriously.  You were ripped off.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:Quote:i

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Quote:
i also think it's funny that god was so pissed off about what these people allegedly did that their children and farm animals had to die for it too.

in fact, let's back up a bit: the israelites had to kill aaaall these people--men, women, and children--because their crime was...sacrificing their children.  so god had to...kill children...to keep children...from being killed.

You need to ask for a refund for that Jew-ology degree you got.  Seriously.  You were ripped off.

 

So Furry, are you saying that your ancestors didn't actually kill men, women, children, and farm animals to satisfy your G-d's filthy requirements ?     You know  gen-o-cide.


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Quote:
i also think it's funny that god was so pissed off about what these people allegedly did that their children and farm animals had to die for it too.

in fact, let's back up a bit: the israelites had to kill aaaall these people--men, women, and children--because their crime was...sacrificing their children.  so god had to...kill children...to keep children...from being killed.

You need to ask for a refund for that Jew-ology degree you got.  Seriously.  You were ripped off.

So Furry, are you saying that your ancestors didn't actually kill men, women, children, and farm animals to satisfy your G-d's filthy requirements ?     You know  gen-o-cide.

No, I'm saying that IBEWBORK can't cherry-pick.  Either we killed them because they were a degenerate nation that preyed on innocent people, and raised their children to prey on innocent people, or we didn't kill them because there's no proof we did.  IBEWBORK can't decide which parts of the story are true, and which parts of the story are false.

Especially since there is no independent historical evidence anyone was even killed in the first place ...

The world wasn't a happy-fun-land place 3,000 years ago.  Judging the actions of people 3,000 years ago by today's moral standards is pretty intellectually dishonest.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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iwbiek wrote:in fact, let's

iwbiek wrote:

in fact, let's back up a bit: the israelites had to kill aaaall these people--men, women, and children--because their crime was...sacrificing their children.  so god had to...kill children...to keep children...from being killed.

...uh-huh...

  Remember iwbiek,  it's a Jewish thing....you wouldn't understand.


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FurryCatHerder

FurryCatHerder wrote:

 

Especially since there is no independent historical evidence anyone was even killed in the first place ...

The world wasn't a happy-fun-land place 3,000 years ago.  Judging the actions of people 3,000 years ago by today's moral standards is pretty intellectually dishonest.

  Okay, but if it did happen and your ancestors really were such people as described in your bible, then you're okay with it morally because, you know.....they really deserved it ?  


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FurryCatHerder wrote:That

FurryCatHerder wrote:

That goes both ways -- there's no evidence we even did the crimes. 

well, for you there is, since you accept the bible as truth.

FurryCatHerder wrote:

You need to ask for a refund for that Jew-ology degree you got.  Seriously.  You were ripped off.

you're probably right.  they encouraged critical thinking way too much.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:FurryCatHerder

iwbiek wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

That goes both ways -- there's no evidence we even did the crimes. 

well, for you there is, since you accept the bible as truth.

Yup, and I accept that these were nations that had become so degenerated that there was simply no other way to stop what they were doing to us and others.

Remember -- the Phillistines had been raiding Egypt for YEARS before Ramses III pushed them out.  That didn't stop their behavior.  So, we and a few others finished them off.  I don't lose any sleep over it.

As you're well aware, from your Jew-ology studies, there were cultures which saw absolutely nothing wrong with robbing, killing, raping, plundering, etc. whomever they could get their hands on.  A bit like Spanish Conquistadors of the now-failed Spanish Empire.  If your Jew-ology degree was worth a damn, you know that G-d destroyed S'dom because they were, more or less, an entire city-state of highway robbers.  You should also know, from your Jew-ology degree, that the level to which the people of S'dom had degenerated included Lot's daughters, whose boyfriends were killed by G-d, getting their father drunk so the could get pregnant by him, thereby giving rise to the Moabites ...

There's only so many times a nation can defend itself from another nation before "wipe them all out" is about the only alternative.  The good news is that political leaders seem to have learned that losing over and over again, generation after generation, is a bad idea.  They also seem to have learned that it can be rather difficult to maintain a despotic regime for more than a few generations because sooner or late the people =do= rise up.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:As

FurryCatHerder wrote:

As you're well aware, from your Jew-ology studies, there were cultures which saw absolutely nothing wrong with robbing, killing, raping, plundering, etc. whomever they could get their hands on.

 

 

    Yes, they were called Israelites and they had the ethics of Vikings when it came to killing innocent people and taking their property away from them. 

 Numbers 31:9  "And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their cattle, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods."

  

       That's really just a small sampling but if you're really interested it's not hard to find, your Bible is just full of this shit.

 

 

 

 

Furrycatherder wrote:
  If your Jew-ology degree was worth a damn, you know that G-d destroyed S'dom because they were, more or less, an entire city-state of highway robbers.
 

 

You're leaving out G-d's homophobic tendencies in dealing with Sodomites.  Why is that ?  Seriously, why the omission ?   I don't have a degree in Jew-ology but I do know your ancestors had very little tolerance for anything they considered to be sexual "aberrations". 

 

Behold Furry, your G-d speaks !!!   

  ....Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they surely must be put to death, their blood is upon them."

 

 

 

 

   Okay Furry, this is where you come in and obfuscate with all your special Jewish insights that are so beyond us non Jews.  Please tell us why God isn't a homophobe because y'know we never get tired of your straight shooting style of apologetics....we all love for you to confound and baffle us with your esoteric knowledge. Please enlighten us because you're the expert.

 


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Do you really

 

FurryCatHerder wrote:

 

If your Jew-ology degree was worth a damn, you know that G-d destroyed S'dom because they were, more or less, an entire city-state of highway robbers.  You should also know, from your Jew-ology degree, that the level to which the people of S'dom had degenerated included Lot's daughters, whose boyfriends were killed by G-d, getting their father drunk so the could get pregnant by him, thereby giving rise to the Moabites ...

 

 

believe this stuff is literal, FurryCat? It's a bit - assertion-y - isn't it? There seems to me a danger in taking bible literally. How can we know which of the stories therein is bollocks? A whole city of robbers? This entire story is dubious and the archeology by no means supports it. The primary source is the hebrew bible (Genesis), a source of a range of wild assertions. The NT and Koran just go along for the ride. 

Getting to the enjoyable part, what I always wondered about the story was which of this family of shaggers owned up. Was it dad who boasted down at the local tavern he'd pantsed his randy daughters? Or did the girls shout out in labour "This is your fault, Dad!" as the freshly minted Moabites popped out, mysteriously morphed into a 6-toed race?

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

If your Jew-ology degree was worth a damn, you know that G-d destroyed S'dom because they were, more or less, an entire city-state of highway robbers.  You should also know, from your Jew-ology degree, that the level to which the people of S'dom had degenerated included Lot's daughters, whose boyfriends were killed by G-d, getting their father drunk so the could get pregnant by him, thereby giving rise to the Moabites ...

believe this stuff is literal, FurryCat? It's a bit - assertion-y - isn't it? There seems to me a danger in taking bible literally. How can we know which of the stories therein is bollocks? A whole city of robbers? This entire story is dubious and the archeology by no means supports it. The primary source is the hebrew bible (Genesis), a source of a range of wild assertions. The NT and Koran just go along for the ride.

There was a study conducted using Bedouin to determine just how accurate oral histories were and the conclusion was "remarkably so".

And I don't doubt for a minute that a culture could evolve in which part of what is "the culture" is the morning raid of whomever was foolish enough to be nearby.  First, the destruction of S'dom was 4,500 years ago.  So, it isn't like they had Civics classes they could attend in which they learned how to be nice citizens of the Dead Sea rift valley region.  They had whatever culture took root at the time, and for many parts of the planet, 4,500 years ago was about the time cities began to emerge.

Nor is it the case that the archeology doesn't support it, because there are cities in that region that were completely destroyed by fire, in a manner which is consistent with the biblical account.  This leaves you with a handful of choices --

1). Oral history can accurately survive thousands of years, to the time of Ezra when Documentary Hypothesis adherents claim the Torah was written.

2). G-d told Moses what happened a thousand years later.

Quote:
Getting to the enjoyable part, what I always wondered about the story was which of this family of shaggers owned up. Was it dad who boasted down at the local tavern he'd pantsed his randy daughters? Or did the girls shout out in labour "This is your fault, Dad!" as the freshly minted Moabites popped out, mysteriously morphed into a 6-toed race?

Divine revelation.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Mmmm

 

FurryCatHerder wrote:

 

Nor is it the case that the archeology doesn't support it, because there are cities in that region that were completely destroyed by fire, in a manner which is consistent with the biblical account.  This leaves you with a handful of choices --

1). Oral history can accurately survive thousands of years, to the time of Ezra when Documentary Hypothesis adherents claim the Torah was written.

2). G-d told Moses what happened a thousand years later.

 

 

in the days before fire brigades you'd have to agree pretty much every city burned down. A layer of ash doesn't support divine intervention consistent with the biblical account. It does suggest there was an accident in Pudding Lane. When it comes to a whole city state of robbers I sort of wrestle. A village of robbers, a hole-in-the-wall-camp of robbers, maybe. But if everyone was a robber there'd be precious little in the way of utilities to depend on. 

I don't disagree when it comes to the longevity of human mythology, however. It's just a matter of what sort of natural explanations these supernatural assertions represent. It used to be sailors thought ships sailed off the edge of the world or were eaten by dragons or sea monsters when in reality they just sailed to Aeotearoa and were eaten by Maori. 

I always wonder at how easy it is to dismiss non religious mythology and how hard it seems to let go of the similarly mythical stories that are tangled up with god concepts. 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Still waiting for you to

Furry still waiting for you to explain your homophobic God.  I know you'll be very creative with your answer.


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FurryCatHerder wrote:Yup,

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Yup, and I accept that these were nations that had become so degenerated that there was simply no other way to stop what they were doing to us and others.

Remember -- the Phillistines had been raiding Egypt for YEARS before Ramses III pushed them out.  That didn't stop their behavior.  So, we and a few others finished them off.  I don't lose any sleep over it.

then you are sick and so is your god.  what POSSIBLE reason was their for murdering the children?  the newborns?  we know from the pentateuch that yahweh was more than happy to allow the israelites to adopt foreigners into their tribes, so why couldn't they have taken in the children and raised them as they saw fit, brining them up to be the beacons of morality that you seem to think they were, and that yahweh had definitely commanded them to be.  so what was the problem?  was there something in their blood that kept them from ever being able to become moral human beings?  if you believe that, then you really are closer to the nazis in your outlook than you think, i'm sorry.

i mean, kill the soldiers who perpetrated these alleged raids you keep mentioning.  kill their leaders.  fine, this i could almost understand.  but why babies, who could not possibly know what the fuck was going on?  and then their livestock as well????  what the fuck sense does that make?  yahweh turned his back on saul because saul took the livestock of the kenites to feed his people.  yahweh forgave david for having a man murdered--not before slowly killing his newborn child, however, over seven fucking days; why didn't david suffer that?--but would not forgive saul because saul truly had the interests of his people at heart in a harsh, inhospitable environment.

your "g-d" is a fucking sociopathic bully.  he is not good, he is only strong.  see, this is how religion warps minds.  you harp about how we have no moral compass and we would turn the world into a degenerate slimepit, and in the same breath justify slaughtering tens if not hundreds of thousands because, somehow, they were aaall, even down to the tiniest infants, too depraved to live.  and you call us ignorant for brining hitler to mind--shit, hitler at least took some jewish children to raise as germans.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

 

Nor is it the case that the archeology doesn't support it, because there are cities in that region that were completely destroyed by fire, in a manner which is consistent with the biblical account.  This leaves you with a handful of choices --

1). Oral history can accurately survive thousands of years, to the time of Ezra when Documentary Hypothesis adherents claim the Torah was written.

2). G-d told Moses what happened a thousand years later.

in the days before fire brigades you'd have to agree pretty much every city burned down. A layer of ash doesn't support divine intervention consistent with the biblical account. It does suggest there was an accident in Pudding Lane. When it comes to a whole city state of robbers I sort of wrestle. A village of robbers, a hole-in-the-wall-camp of robbers, maybe. But if everyone was a robber there'd be precious little in the way of utilities to depend on.

First, keep in mind, as I pointed out in another thread, that the entire global population was all of 5 to 10 million.  That's all the inhabited continents -- Africa, the Americas, Asia, Australia and Europe.

So we're not talking hundreds of thousands of little baby robbers all waiting to become grown-up robbers.

There are also, and this is particularly true in the Middle East, parts of the world where "trade" was focused.  The Middle East is the only part of the world where trade between three continents is funneled through such a small channel of land.

Quote:
I don't disagree when it comes to the longevity of human mythology, however. It's just a matter of what sort of natural explanations these supernatural assertions represent. It used to be sailors thought ships sailed off the edge of the world or were eaten by dragons or sea monsters when in reality they just sailed to Aeotearoa and were eaten by Maori.

Right, but we've never found evidence of sea dragons that ate ships.

Quote:
I always wonder at how easy it is to dismiss non religious mythology and how hard it seems to let go of the similarly mythical stories that are tangled up with god concepts.

I think that depends on how well the mythology holds true.  I don't know of any culture that is still offering sacrifices to Ceres to make sure the wheat crop gets planted and harvested, know what I mean?

Jewish mythology is pretty boring -- G-d created the entire Universe and everything in it.  Okay, we're here.  Pretty hard to argue the Universe doesn't exist.  The long-term objective of the Jewish people is bringing about an era of Peace and Universal Brotherhood.  Sounds like a good idea to me.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:Furry

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Furry still waiting for you to explain your homophobic God.  I know you'll be very creative with your answer.

First, the penalty is only for gay men.  Lesbians get a free pass, a fact my ex-wife and I used to discuss when talking about her parents and their attitude towards us Eye-wink

But seriously, when you find historical records that the law was enforced the way you've decided to interpret it, then we can talk.  In the meantime, I'll note that same-sex couples tend not to have children between the two of them.  They are, by the very nature of same-sex couples, removed from the Tribe.  Go complain to G-d that two men or two women can't have children, who go on to continue that couple's legacy within the Tribe.  When you get back from telling G-d that two men or two women can't have children, and that's really unfair, you tell me what G-d said.  Deal?

The other thing is that all crimes require valid witnesses, and "valid witnesses" don't include neighbors with a grudge or paid police informants.  The first question would be "What we =you= doing in the bedroom?!?", and that witness would be excluded.  Next witness!

IBEWBORK already knew the answer -- the Sanhedrin wasn't actually into killing anyone.

http://notabug.com/kozinski/sanhedrin

That doesn't help his cause, so he gladly engages in the pile-on.  That or he really did get his degree off the back of a box of cereal.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:First,

FurryCatHerder wrote:

First, the penalty is only for gay men.

 

Oh, so G-d is not only homophobic, he's sexist, too ? 

 

FurryCatHerder wrote:
But seriously, when you find historical records that the law was enforced the way you've decided to interpret it..
  

The way I've interpreted it ?  It's your G-d, your people, your book, your rules.  So all those other "crimes" like stoning disobedient children or people who work on the Sabbath, that was all just a big misunderstanding ?

 

FurryCatHerder wrote:
  In the meantime, I'll note that same-sex couples tend not to have children between the two of them.  They are, by the very nature of same-sex couples, removed from the Tribe.  Go complain to G-d that two men or two women can't have children, who go on to continue that couple's legacy within the Tribe.  When you get back from telling G-d that two men or two women can't have children, and that's really unfair, you tell me what G-d said.  Deal?
 

 

You're the one who talks to imaginary beings, not me.  Remember ?

 

FurryCatHerder wrote:
The other thing is that all crimes require valid witnesses, and "valid witnesses" don't include neighbors with a grudge or paid police informants.  The first question would be "What we =you= doing in the bedroom?!?", and that witness would be excluded.  Next witness![ /quote]

 

And all those biblical injunctions against adultery and rape ?  All the perp had to do was perform the deed in secret without any witness and they could get away with anything ?  Nice system of justice you have there.  I didn't see it so it didn't happen!    Well done G-d, well done !!!

 


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FurryCatHerder wrote: 

FurryCatHerder wrote:
  Lesbians get a free pass, a fact my ex-wife and I used to discuss when talking about her parents and their attitude towards us Eye-wink

  I'm not sure I understand with respect to your "ex wife".  Can you expound ?


 


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

First, the penalty is only for gay men.

 

Oh, so G-d is not only homophobic, he's sexist, too ?

No, your interpretation of Jewish law is what's broken.  You're constructing a strawman, then attacking Judaism because of your strawman.  That's a logical fallacy, by the way.

Quote:
FurryCatHerder wrote:
But seriously, when you find historical records that the law was enforced the way you've decided to interpret it..
  

The way I've interpreted it ?  It's your G-d, your people, your book, your rules.  So all those other "crimes" like stoning disobedient children or people who work on the Sabbath, that was all just a big misunderstanding ?

Yes, you have a very big misunderstanding, probably driven by an irrational hatred for religion, and more particularly an irrational hatred of Jewish people.

Go find evidence which supports your interpretation, then we'll talk.  Until then, I suggest you work on those famed critical thinking skills because creating strawmen is not "critical thinking."

Quote:
FurryCatHerder wrote:
  In the meantime, I'll note that same-sex couples tend not to have children between the two of them.  They are, by the very nature of same-sex couples, removed from the Tribe.  Go complain to G-d that two men or two women can't have children, who go on to continue that couple's legacy within the Tribe.  When you get back from telling G-d that two men or two women can't have children, and that's really unfair, you tell me what G-d said.  Deal?
 

You're the one who talks to imaginary beings, not me.  Remember ?

Okay, let's try this without assuming the existence of G-d.

Do you know of two men or two women who've ever had children between them?  Not "with a surrogate", not with IVF, not with direct nuclear transplantation, not with any of the modern forms of cloning or genetic engineering that might turn into some new same-sex-couples-make-babies technology.  Two human beings of the same biological sex bumping uglies, 9 months, one new baby.

Have you ever seen that happen, in your universe in which there is no god or gods?  Ever seen that happen?  Would "No" be the answer?

Quote:
FurryCatHerder wrote:
The other thing is that all crimes require valid witnesses, and "valid witnesses" don't include neighbors with a grudge or paid police informants.  The first question would be "What we =you= doing in the bedroom?!?", and that witness would be excluded.  Next witness![ /quote]

And all those biblical injunctions against adultery and rape ?  All the perp had to do was perform the deed in secret without any witness and they could get away with anything ?  Nice system of justice you have there.  I didn't see it so it didn't happen!    Well done G-d, well done !!!

I live in a state that just released someone who'd been held on Death Row for 25 years for a crime he didn't commit.  The guy wasn't found "Not Guilty" either.  He was found to be "Actually Innocent".  Not a "Reasonable Doubt", not some procedural error, not illegal evidence.  The guy had nothing at all to do with the crime.  I'd rather live in a system where suspected rapists are exiled from the community than an innocent person spends 25 years on Death Row, or G-d forbid, is executed.  And I've been raped, so I speak from personal experience.

But more to the point you raised, the Bible addresses these issues.  And now you get to choose -- our way, or the way that leads an innocent man to spending 25 years on Death Row.  Pick one!

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:Yes,

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Yes, you have a very big misunderstanding, probably driven by an irrational hatred for religion, and more particularly an irrational hatred of Jewish people.

  I was a Christian for over 25 years,  any irrational hatred of religion would have probably prevented my participation, don't you think ?   Today, I'm merely apathetic.

 I don't hate Jewish people, but I do despise one in particular for constantly deflecting criticism with charges  of anti-semitism.  What type of character assassination do you fall back upon when your critics are Jewish ?


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FurryCatHerder wrote:Go find

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Go find evidence which supports your interpretation, then we'll talk. 

OMFG !  Instead of me continually dragging out verse after verse and presenting them to you why don't you just trot on over to  skepticsannotatedbible.com/  look under the heading  "cruelty and violence".  Maybe refrain from your Jewish War Lord mentality and drop your support of genocide and you might actually  have some f**king credibility you degenerate.

 


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:
  Lesbians get a free pass, a fact my ex-wife and I used to discuss when talking about her parents and their attitude towards us Eye-wink

 I'm not sure I understand with respect to your "ex wife".  Can you expound ?

I'm a Dyke?

Wow.  Never saw that one coming, did you!

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:I'm a

FurryCatHerder wrote:

I'm a Dyke?

Wow.  Never saw that one coming, did you!

 

No, actually I anticipated this "answer". More than you'll ever know.


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Go find evidence which supports your interpretation, then we'll talk. 

OMFG !  Instead of me continually dragging out verse after verse and presenting them to you why don't you just trot on over to  skepticsannotatedbible.com/  look under the heading  "cruelty and violence".  Maybe refrain from your Jewish War Lord mentality and drop your support of genocide and you might actually  have some f**king credibility you degenerate.

No, you've made claims about the practical application of Jewish Law.  Those claims are completely unsupported by FACTS.  FACTS are very pesky things.  They aren't subject to interpretation, they are just, you know, FACTS.

Try dealing in FACTS, that will give you far more credibility than your getting with your gross distortion of FACTS.

And I'm sorry being a Christian was such a miserable experience for you, but that doesn't give you permission to ignore or distort FACTS.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:No,

FurryCatHerder wrote:

No, you've made claims about the practical application of Jewish Law.  Those claims are completely unsupported by FACTS.  FACTS are very pesky things.  They aren't subject to interpretation, they are just, you know, FACTS.

Try dealing in FACTS, that will give you far more credibility than your getting with your gross distortion of FACTS.

And I'm sorry being a Christian was such a miserable experience for you, but that doesn't give you permission to ignore or distort FACTS.

How about you quote me some mosaic laws  that were punishable by death, they're in abundance.  Strange how so many of the laws dealt with sexual matters......right Furry ?


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

No, you've made claims about the practical application of Jewish Law.  Those claims are completely unsupported by FACTS.  FACTS are very pesky things.  They aren't subject to interpretation, they are just, you know, FACTS.

Try dealing in FACTS, that will give you far more credibility than your getting with your gross distortion of FACTS.

And I'm sorry being a Christian was such a miserable experience for you, but that doesn't give you permission to ignore or distort FACTS.

How about you quote me some mosaic laws  that were punishable by death, they're in abundance.  Strange how so many of the laws dealt with sexual matters......right Furry ?

How about you find instances where they WERE punished by death.

Hebrew is a very small language.  The alef-bet (first two letters -- alef and ... bet) is 22 letters.  Root words are made up of, most of the times, three letters.  "Person" -- alef-dalet-mem, "adam", "Peace" -- shin-lamed-mem, "shalom".  Vowels are free, unlike Wheel of Fortune.  22 ^ 3 is 10,648.  Do you have any clue how many different words are in the English language?  A =lot= more.  And you're trying to use your understanding of the English language to judge Hebrew.  Very un-rational.  Very un-critical-thinking.  Very completely stupid.

That leaves us with understanding the language contextually -- what actually happened.  And "what actually happened" isn't at all what you're claiming to be the case.  Which goes well with you being very completely stupid.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

 Christian blackmail or you're too lazy to bring your friends over?

LOL!

No, I'm a Jew.  We not only don't believe in Jesus, we also don't believe in Super Magical Sky Santa who sends servers for the asking.

I beg your pardon - theistic blackmail or are you still too lazy to bring your friends over?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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FurryCatHerder wrote:How

FurryCatHerder wrote:

How about you find instances where they WERE punished by death.

 You really are a lazy dude aren't you ?  Here goes:

 Numbers 15:32-36:

   "Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation; they put him in custody because it had not been declared what should be done to him.  Then the Lord said to Moses, 'This man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp' So all the congregation brought him outside the camp, and stoned him to death with stones, just as the Lord had commanded Moses."

 

  What now Furry, will you require an autopsy report on the Sabbath breaker before you believe it? 

   


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

How about you find instances where they WERE punished by death.

 You really are a lazy dude aren't you ?  Here goes:

 Numbers 15:32-36:

   "Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation; they put him in custody because it had not been declared what should be done to him.  Then the Lord said to Moses, 'This man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp' So all the congregation brought him outside the camp, and stoned him to death with stones, just as the Lord had commanded Moses."

  What now Furry, will you require an autopsy report on the Sabbath breaker before you believe it? 

Not a "dude", lazy or otherwise.

They're in the wilderness, this guy is collecting firewood, which is essential for survival (the whole "cooking" and "heat" and everything else issue), while everyone else in the community has agreed not to.

Do you know what often happens to looters who remain in an evacuated area, after everyone else has agreed to leave for their own safety?  When communities make rules that make them more vulnerable, and someone decides to violate the rules, they are a threat to the entire community.  You want a thief in your midst, stealing material that's essential for survival?  Sounds more like someone who's used to living where there's a grocery store.

Still waiting on an example of teh gays being stoned.  You'll find some a rapist run through with a spear, if you go looking.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote: Not a

FurryCatHerder wrote:

 

Not a "dude", lazy or otherwise.

  

Hmmm, so you say.

FurryCatHerder wrote:
They're in the wilderness, this guy is collecting firewood, which is essential for survival (the whole "cooking" and "heat" and everything else issue), while everyone else in the community has agreed not to.

Do you know what often happens to looters who remain in an evacuated area, after everyone else has agreed to leave for their own safety?  When communities make rules that make them more vulnerable, and someone decides to violate the rules, they are a threat to the entire community.  You want a thief in your midst, stealing material that's essential for survival?  Sounds more like someone who's used to living where there's a grocery store.

 

 

Okay, gotcha.  One dead Sabbath breaker just as it reads from your "Holy" book.  Glad we finally agree.

 

FurryCatHerder wrote:
Still waiting on an example of teh gays being stoned.  You'll find some a rapist run through with a spear, if you go looking.

 

Okay, here is the actual biblical precedent, it's really easy to understand, the message is profoundly simple,  so, once again for those too dim witted to comprehend an overt threat:

 

 Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination, they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

 

What is it about "put to death" that you are failing to grasp ?  Prove it didn't happen.  Besides, your barbaric ancestors had no compunctions about killing women and infants to "defend" themselves, is it really a stretch to believe they killed homosexual / sodomites ?  Really ?

 

Oh, and while your piling the truth on, prove that G-d parted the Red ( Reed ) Sea, or that Adam and Eve are our original ancestors, that there was a world wide flood, or that Aaron, or Elijah or Elisha actually performed miracles.  Hell, prove that Moses even existed.       Lay that proof on me, I'm waiting.

 


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Not a "dude", lazy or otherwise.

  

Hmmm, so you say.

WhatEvah.  My right hand is on my left tit.  Where your hand will never be!

Quote:
FurryCatHerder wrote:
They're in the wilderness, this guy is collecting firewood, which is essential for survival (the whole "cooking" and "heat" and everything else issue), while everyone else in the community has agreed not to.

Do you know what often happens to looters who remain in an evacuated area, after everyone else has agreed to leave for their own safety?  When communities make rules that make them more vulnerable, and someone decides to violate the rules, they are a threat to the entire community.  You want a thief in your midst, stealing material that's essential for survival?  Sounds more like someone who's used to living where there's a grocery store.

 

 

Okay, gotcha.  One dead Sabbath breaker just as it reads from your "Holy" book.  Glad we finally agree.

One dead THIEF and threat to a community in the middle of nowhere.

See, this is how you do it -- you decontextualize everything.

Quote:
FurryCatHerder wrote:
Still waiting on an example of teh gays being stoned.  You'll find some a rapist run through with a spear, if you go looking.

Okay, here is the actual biblical precedent, it's really easy to understand, the message is profoundly simple,  so, once again for those too dim witted to comprehend an overt threat:

 

 Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination, they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

 

What is it about "put to death" that you are failing to grasp ?  Prove it didn't happen.  Besides, your barbaric ancestors had no compunctions about killing women and infants to "defend" themselves, is it really a stretch to believe they killed homosexual / sodomites ?  Really ?

Well, I suggest you learn to read Hebrew.  Here's your "put to death" --

Quote:
מֹות יוּמָתוּ

Yeah, doesn't say "put to death", does it.  It says they die.  What happens when two people of the same sex screw?  No babies.  Okay, maybe some spit babies, but the family tree dies.

Quote:
Oh, and while your piling the truth on, prove that G-d parted the Red ( Reed ) Sea, or that Adam and Eve are our original ancestors, that there was a world wide flood, or that Aaron, or Elijah or Elisha actually performed miracles.    Lay that proof on me, I'm waiting.

You know that "adam" isn't a proper name, right?  Do you have ancestors?  You sure as heck better, or you're in a big pile of poop.

And lemme lay some more Hebrew on you --

Quote:
עַל־הָאָֽרֶץ

Yeah, that doesn't say "world-wide" either.

Get your head out of the KJV.  Much less interesting that the original.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:

 

 

WhatEvah.  My right hand is on my left tit.  Where your hand will never be!

 

 

That's not a problem, I prefer "tits" as original equipment, not created as an afterthought.

 

 

FurryCatHerder wrote:

See, this is how you do it -- you decontextualize everything.

 

Project much ?

 

 

 

 

 

FurryCatHerder wrote:
  Well, I suggest you learn to read Hebrew. 
 

 

I suggest you learn to read English.

 

FurryCatHerder wrote:
Yeah, doesn't say "put to death", does it.  It says they die.  What happens when two people of the same sex screw?  No babies.  Okay, maybe some spit babies, but the family tree dies.

 

 

Semantics......  and what is with you and this same sex / babies schtick ?  Perhaps you should work harder at concealing your neuroses ?

 

 

 

 

furryCatHerder wrote:
You know that "adam" isn't a proper name, right?  Do you have ancestors?  You sure as heck better, or you're in a big pile of poop.
 

 

Yes,  ( sighs) ...I have ancestors, my presence here on this forum tends to confirm that doesn't it ?     Nevertheless,  did Adam and Eve exist or is it simply more Jewish fairy tales ? 

 

 

FurryCatHerder wrote:
   And lemme lay some more Hebrew on you -- 

 

    Oh please, not again !

 

FurryCatHerder wrote:
עַל־הָאָֽרֶץ

Yeah, that doesn't say "world-wide" either.

 

Yes semantics is utterly captivating,  yet a more important question would be is any portion of this flood story actually true ?  ( or is it more Jewish fairy tales ? )

 

FurryCatHerder wrote:
Get your head out of the KJV.  Much less interesting that the original.

 

 

No, actually one book of religious fantasy is about as worthless as any other.