Accept Jesus, Get A Server

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Accept Jesus, Get A Server

Subject line says it all.  The Rational Response Squad needs to recruit more Christians so they can get a new server.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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I'll like... except jesus

I'll like... except jesus and stuff... can I have a server please? praise jesus and all the rest (makes the sign of the cross and kisses authentic wooden crucifix).  

 

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 Christian blackmail or

 Christian blackmail or you're too lazy to bring your friends over?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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While there are more theists

While there are more theists than atheists, therefore lending statistical support for your suggestion, there is little chance of theist financial support for an atheist site. It'd be like asking the US government for a donation to assist the construction of or maintenance of a communist state.

This site is for atheists, by atheists. Something that until recently atheists didn't have. A place we can come to be surrounded by our peers. A place we can come to escape the craziness found almost everywhere else. We can't rationally expect any theist to contribute to a group intent on relegating theism to irrelevancy. And I think I speak for mostly everyone when I say we aren't interested in catering to theists beyond what we allow already in order to gain the potential for a little extra cash.

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Counter offer 

Counter offer

 


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Ktulu wrote:I'll like...

Ktulu wrote:

I'll like... except jesus and stuff... can I have a server please? praise jesus and all the rest (makes the sign of the cross and kisses authentic wooden crucifix).  

 

You are not a "true" Christian. Christians don't do the sign of the cross. You are a pagan. Thanks for fucking it up for Brian. Sorry Brian, the pagan fucked it up for you by worshiping an idol.

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jcgadfly wrote: Christian

jcgadfly wrote:

 Christian blackmail or you're too lazy to bring your friends over?

LOL!

No, I'm a Jew.  We not only don't believe in Jesus, we also don't believe in Super Magical Sky Santa who sends servers for the asking.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:Counter

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Counter offer

 

Uh, that doesn't work for Jews.

Jews get beer, Muslims get cheeseburgers, Christians get bacon.  Thems the dietary laws in a nutshell.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Vastet wrote:While there are

Vastet wrote:
While there are more theists than atheists, therefore lending statistical support for your suggestion, there is little chance of theist financial support for an atheist site. It'd be like asking the US government for a donation to assist the construction of or maintenance of a communist state. This site is for atheists, by atheists. Something that until recently atheists didn't have. A place we can come to be surrounded by our peers. A place we can come to escape the craziness found almost everywhere else. We can't rationally expect any theist to contribute to a group intent on relegating theism to irrelevancy. And I think I speak for mostly everyone when I say we aren't interested in catering to theists beyond what we allow already in order to gain the potential for a little extra cash.

Jesus Christ on a Stick, render unto me a f*cking break, you pathetic whiner.

First, it is in the best interests of those polytheistic idiots to have a site where they can come and try to convince you to worship some dead Jew.  It's probably more cost effective to finance an Atheist website -- get you all in one place where they can "witness" to you.

Second, if you don't know I'm not a Christian by now, let me make it clear -- I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Brian37 wrote:You are not a

Brian37 wrote:

You are not a "true" Christian. Christians don't do the sign of the cross. You are a pagan. Thanks for fucking it up for Brian. Sorry Brian, the pagan fucked it up for you by worshiping an idol.

I had a girlfriend (Catholic) in college who crossed herself every time we drove past a church.  It was like being in a car with a human helicopter.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:Jesus

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Jesus Christ on a Stick, render unto me a f*cking break, you pathetic whiner.

Don't be a dick about it.

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Quote:Jesus Christ on a

Quote:
Jesus Christ on a Stick, render unto me a f*cking break, you pathetic whiner.

Projection will get you nowhere, moron.

Quote:
First, it is in the best interests of those polytheistic idiots to have a site where they can come and try to convince you to worship some dead Jew. 

Only in the mind of a fool who doesn't think through to likely end consequences. But the fact is that after more than 5 years of operation, no theist has successfully argued for their religion on this site, and they aren't going to start succeeding any time soon.
Besides, if there were any truth to your ridiculous suggestion, it would have already manifested itself with or without the interference or support of the members here. The christians are one of the biggest self motivating groups in existence today, but even they won't motivate themselves to pay for a whooping and an education.

Quote:
Second, if you don't know I'm not a Christian by now, let me make it clear -- I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN.

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Any time you want to learn

Any time you want to learn how to comprehend basic English, pull your empty head out of the sand and study it. Until then you just prove your own stupidity by suggesting something that a ten second read can disprove. You're a brainless tool, and I laugh at you.

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Vastet wrote:Any time you

Vastet wrote:
Any time you want to learn how to comprehend basic English, pull your empty head out of the sand and study it. Until then you just prove your own stupidity by suggesting something that a ten second read can disprove. You're a brainless tool, and I laugh at you.

Comprende English muy muy bueno.

You, on the other hand, really are a moron.  In all my years of reading your posts, you've demonstrated that you hate Christians, yet know very little about their religion or any other one!

 

You're a one trick pony -- "I'm an Atheist!  I are rily smart!"

Enlightened my non-hairy ass.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Sapient wrote:FurryCatHerder

Sapient wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Jesus Christ on a Stick, render unto me a f*cking break, you pathetic whiner.

Don't be a dick about it.

Well, he is a pathetic whiner.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


Vastet
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FurryCatHerder wrote:Vastet

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Any time you want to learn how to comprehend basic English, pull your empty head out of the sand and study it. Until then you just prove your own stupidity by suggesting something that a ten second read can disprove. You're a brainless tool, and I laugh at you.

Comprende English muy muy bueno.

You, on the other hand, really are a moron.  In all my years of reading your posts, you've demonstrated that you hate Christians, yet know very little about their religion or any other one!

 

You're a one trick pony -- "I'm an Atheist!  I are rily smart!"

Enlightened my non-hairy ass.

The constant projection of your flaws onto me is highly amusing.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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FurryCatHerder wrote:No, I'm

FurryCatHerder wrote:

No, I'm a Jew.  We not only don't believe in Jesus, we also don't believe in Super Magical Sky Santa who sends servers for the asking.

One god away from becoming an atheist, huh?...

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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Vastet wrote:FurryCatHerder

Vastet wrote:
FurryCatHerder wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Any time you want to learn how to comprehend basic English, pull your empty head out of the sand and study it. Until then you just prove your own stupidity by suggesting something that a ten second read can disprove. You're a brainless tool, and I laugh at you.

Comprende English muy muy bueno.

You, on the other hand, really are a moron.  In all my years of reading your posts, you've demonstrated that you hate Christians, yet know very little about their religion or any other one!

 

You're a one trick pony -- "I'm an Atheist!  I are rily smart!"

Enlightened my non-hairy ass.

The constant projection of your flaws onto me is highly amusing.

Oh, please.  Grade school psychology is so beneath you.  Or maybe not.

There is no shortage of places all throughout the Interwebs where however many Atheists you want to hang out with can all hang out.  Long before the World Wide Waste that is what you prolly think is "The Internet", there were places where no only did Atheists hang out, they hung out in extremely large numbers.  All around the world.

The Rational Response Squad, for all their apparent wonderfulness, no more invented a safe place for Atheists to congregate than Algore invented the Internet.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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redneF wrote:FurryCatHerder

redneF wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

No, I'm a Jew.  We not only don't believe in Jesus, we also don't believe in Super Magical Sky Santa who sends servers for the asking.

One god away from becoming an atheist, huh?...

I'll have you know there is no "You must believe in G-d" commandment in Judaism.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:Brian37

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

You are not a "true" Christian. Christians don't do the sign of the cross. You are a pagan. Thanks for fucking it up for Brian. Sorry Brian, the pagan fucked it up for you by worshiping an idol.

I had a girlfriend (Catholic) in college who crossed herself every time we drove past a church.  It was like being in a car with a human helicopter.

Ok so if you understand how silly that superstition was, being a Jew, what makes you think that your superstition other than "tradition" of not spelling out God is any different than your former girlfriend's Helicopter routeine?

Both are equally silly to me. No different than a pro sports star with lucky socks.

 

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Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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FurryCatHerder wrote:The

FurryCatHerder wrote:

The Rational Response Squad, for all their apparent wonderfulness, no more invented a safe place for Atheists to congregate than Algore invented the Internet.

Captain Obvious to the rescueeeeeeeeeeeee

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FurryCatHerder wrote:redneF

FurryCatHerder wrote:

redneF wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

No, I'm a Jew.  We not only don't believe in Jesus, we also don't believe in Super Magical Sky Santa who sends servers for the asking.

One god away from becoming an atheist, huh?...

I'll have you know there is no "You must believe in G-d" commandment in Judaism.

Didn't know that. The Jews that I know always say 'God Bless', and from what I understand, believe in the Old Testament.

What religion are you exactly, and what are your beliefs about the cosmos, what happens after death, etc...?

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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FurryCatHerder wrote:Oh,

FurryCatHerder wrote:
Oh, please.  Grade school psychology is so beneath you.  Or maybe not.

And the projection continues...

FurryCatHerder wrote:
There is no shortage of places all throughout the Interwebs where however many Atheists you want to hang out with can all hang out.

Today.

FurryCatHerder wrote:
Long before the World Wide Waste that is what you prolly think is "The Internet", there were places where no only did Atheists hang out, they hung out in extremely large numbers.  All around the world.

Funny how I never heard of them. I guess they weren't everywhere or easy to find.

FurryCatHerder wrote:
The Rational Response Squad, for all their apparent wonderfulness, no more invented a safe place for Atheists to congregate than Algore invented the Internet.

Funny how you are incapable of posting without projection or demonstrating basic reading comprehension failure. Nowhere was it said that the RRS invented atheist congregation. Merely that it helped to spread it.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Brian37 wrote:FurryCatHerder

Brian37 wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

You are not a "true" Christian. Christians don't do the sign of the cross. You are a pagan. Thanks for fucking it up for Brian. Sorry Brian, the pagan fucked it up for you by worshiping an idol.

I had a girlfriend (Catholic) in college who crossed herself every time we drove past a church.  It was like being in a car with a human helicopter.

Ok so if you understand how silly that superstition was, being a Jew, what makes you think that your superstition other than "tradition" of not spelling out God is any different than your former girlfriend's Helicopter routeine?

Both are equally silly to me. No different than a pro sports star with lucky socks.

There's a difference between a superstition and a practice which =does= tend to produce respect.  The expression "Familiarity Breeds Contempt" seems to be more or less accurate.

Now, there is no actual sin which says I can't write God without getting zapped.  God God God God God God.

See?  I'm still here.

God God God.

Still no getting zapped.

Hmmmm.  Maybe it's something other than a baseless superstition?

God God God.

Yeah, I'm starting to think not at all a baseless superstition.

God God God.

Yeah, I think I should go eat lunch instead of trying to prove a point.

The really hard part about arguing with Jews is you either know the correct answer -- writing "G-d" is just one of those weird things some Jews do -- or you guess.  You guessed wrong.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Vastet wrote: FurryCatHerder

Vastet wrote:
FurryCatHerder wrote:
Long before the World Wide Waste that is what you prolly think is "The Internet", there were places where no only did Atheists hang out, they hung out in extremely large numbers.  All around the world.
Funny how I never heard of them. I guess they weren't everywhere or easy to find.

Sigh.

Just because YOU never heard of them is no more proof they didn't exist than the Universe's existence is proof that G-d created it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt.atheism

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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No, the really hard part is

No, the really hard part is when someone who doesn't even know what they believe starts to make excuses for their behaviour and then fail to explain the excuses. "Some weird thing some jews do" is not a valid explanation. There is a reason for the behaviour. Whether indoctrination or fear or something else, you didn't start doing it to be a weird jew.

FurryCatHerder wrote:
Sigh.Just because YOU never heard of them is no more proof they didn't exist than the Universe's existence is proof that G-d created it.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt.atheism

Sigh.
Just because I said I never heard of them does not mean I claimed they didn't exist. You REALLY need to fix that comprehension problem.

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FurryCatHerder wrote:Vastet

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Vastet wrote:
FurryCatHerder wrote:
Long before the World Wide Waste that is what you prolly think is "The Internet", there were places where no only did Atheists hang out, they hung out in extremely large numbers.  All around the world.
Funny how I never heard of them. I guess they weren't everywhere or easy to find.

Sigh.

Just because YOU never heard of them is no more proof they didn't exist

Strawman.

He never claimed there was proof they didn't exist.

 

Go back to eating your sandwich...

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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 That was only partially a

 That was only partially a strawman... the other part was stupid.

 

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Sapient wrote: That was

Sapient wrote:

 That was only partially a strawman... the other part was stupid.

Right.

Typical theist rhetoric and hyperbole.

 

That's why they should all just go back to their sandwich.

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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 I'm already eating their

 I'm already eating their sandwich.

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We're supposed to eat

We're supposed to eat babies; remember?...

 

 


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redneF wrote:Didn't know

redneF wrote:

Didn't know that. The Jews that I know always say 'God Bless', and from what I understand, believe in the Old Testament.

What religion are you exactly, and what are your beliefs about the cosmos, what happens after death, etc...?

Nope, no "Thou Shalt Believe in G-d (with or without an 'o')" commandment.  Commanding belief is impossible, just as commanding (or suggesting, or recommending, or whatever) disbelief is impossible.  I believe in G-d because I do.  The nature of my beliefs in G-d are probably a large part of why I believe in G-d.  Come up with a proof G-d doesn't exist and I'll accept it.  That being completely impossible, don't waste my time trying.  No, I mean it actually =is= impossible.  Really.

Jews believe in the Hebrew Bible, book-wise.  Calling it the "Old Testament" is very insulting, and extremely inaccurate.  What Christians did to the Hebrew texts should be illegal, but for the most part it's just dishonest.

I'm nominally a Conservative Jew, with some Orthodox leanings.

Let's see.

I believe G-d created the Universe from nothingness.  Bible says so, science agrees on the "from not a whole lot of anything", and that's good enough for me.  I like science.  If G-d decided "Evolution it is!", I'm not going to argue.  That would be just plain stupid -- G-d can do anything and Evolution is a part of "anything."

Theologically, I believe in panentheism.  That is, the Universe exists within G-d.  There are texts which suggest that G-d recreates the entire Universe, instant by instant, and some of the quantum mechanical research show that nothing really "is", and that from instant to instant, things go from "being" to "not being" to "being" all over again.

I have no clue what happens after death -- G-d didn't tell us.  I hope things work out, but I don't "do" what I do thinking I'm going to get magical presents from Sky Daddy, or go to Magic Sky Wonderworld when I'm dead.  I do them because I believe living my life the way I do makes this a better planet.  Since I've managed to reproduce, I'd like to leave this a better world for my descendants.  It's all about the DNA and making sure my DNA has as good a go of it as possible.

If there is a Heaven, I believe there will be more ethical Atheists than hypocritical Christians up there.  And if there is a Hell, I believe there will be fewer ethical Atheists than hypocritical Christians.  I'm a "it matters what you do, not what you believe" kinda gal.  If you're a dick, you go to Hell (assuming it exists), if you treat people humanely, you go to Heaven (if it exists).  Anything else is stupid and cruel and any deity who'd do otherwise should be told to get lost.

In Judaism, it really is more important to treat people right than to do all the things other religions seem to think are important.  For example, Yom Kippur is only about the sins we commit against G-d.  If I sin against some neighbor, I'm responsible for fixing that.  Neither G-d nor my Rabbi can fix it.

Judaism also doesn't attempt to convert people.  You don't want to be a Jew?  Fine by me, at least be a decent human being.  You want to become a Jew?  Why would you ever want to do such a thing?  No, really -- why do you want to be a Jew?  Just be a decent human being.  You insist?  Sure, fine.  Welcome to the Tribe, just be sure to be a decent human being, okay?

That's it.  Pretty different from what you probably thought Judaism was all about, no?

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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redneF wrote:FurryCatHerder

redneF wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Vastet wrote:
FurryCatHerder wrote:
Long before the World Wide Waste that is what you prolly think is "The Internet", there were places where no only did Atheists hang out, they hung out in extremely large numbers.  All around the world.
Funny how I never heard of them. I guess they weren't everywhere or easy to find.

Sigh.

Just because YOU never heard of them is no more proof they didn't exist

Strawman.

He never claimed there was proof they didn't exist.

No, he merely claimed they didn't.

Quote:
This site is for atheists, by atheists. Something that until recently atheists didn't have. A place we can come to be surrounded by our peers.

alt.atheism, and countless other places for Atheists on the Interwebs, existed LONG before this website.  Which makes him wrong.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:redneF

FurryCatHerder wrote:

redneF wrote:

Didn't know that. The Jews that I know always say 'God Bless', and from what I understand, believe in the Old Testament.

What religion are you exactly, and what are your beliefs about the cosmos, what happens after death, etc...?

Nope, no "Thou Shalt Believe in G-d (with or without an 'o')" commandment.  Commanding belief is impossible, just as commanding (or suggesting, or recommending, or whatever) disbelief is impossible.  I believe in G-d because I do.  The nature of my beliefs in G-d are probably a large part of why I believe in G-d.  Come up with a proof G-d doesn't exist and I'll accept it.  That being completely impossible, don't waste my time trying. 

I'd never waste my time trying to disprove a god to myself.

That's the only person that could prove it to myself, except God himself, of course (if he exists)

FurryCatHerder wrote:
No, I mean it actually =is= impossible.  Really.

I agree. You'd have to be God.

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Jews believe in the Hebrew Bible, book-wise.  Calling it the "Old Testament" is very insulting, and extremely inaccurate.  What Christians did to the Hebrew texts should be illegal, but for the most part it's just dishonest.

I'm nominally a Conservative Jew, with some Orthodox leanings.

Ok. This is what interests me. The Jews I personally know are conservative, and I really like them all. They're all very, very upbeat people, and have a zest for life.

However, for the first bit of my young life, I grew up in an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood (I was baptised Greek Orthodox, but my family was secular) and the Orthodox Jews were anything but 'upbeat'. They seemed extremely uptight and full of angst, and had a lot of animosity towards young children being playful and carefree.

It was weird...

To me, the contrast between Orthodox Jews and Conservative Jews is like the difference I see in Roman Catholics I know, and Christians. That is to say, the RC's are the 'upbeat' ones, and the Christians are the 'uptight' ones ; with the exception of 1 Born Again Christian I know from Texas, who I have a a business partnership with. I had no idea he was a Christian because he never preached to me, or even mentioned God, for years.

We did eventually talk about it, and he is hard core Christian. He even teaches Bible Studies, and attends church a few times a week.

The long and the short of how he views me personally is, he actually thought I was religious because he knew a lot about my relationships with my wife, kid, family and friends.

The only thing that tipped him off that I might be an atheist was my 'past', which was all about Sex, Drugs and Rock 'n Roll...lol

I asked him if he thought that all that made me a 'bad person' in his eyes, or if he thought that I should go to hell for all that, and his response was that he did not judge me as anything but human, and that Hell is simply for people who didn't ask Jesus for salvation.

So, I would respect all Christians if they all were just like him.

We've never debated about proving or disproving God, and never will. For him, it's not about proof, it's about 'believing' there is a God.

Him and I have zero issues, except............ he keeps his wife and kids in the dark about who I 'was' and that I'm an atheist. His wife would not approve.

FurryCatHerder wrote:

Let's see.

I believe G-d created the Universe from nothingness.  Bible says so, science agrees on the "from not a whole lot of anything", and that's good enough for me.  I like science.  If G-d decided "Evolution it is!", I'm not going to argue.  That would be just plain stupid -- G-d can do anything and Evolution is a part of "anything."

Theologically, I believe in panentheism.  That is, the Universe exists within G-d.  There are texts which suggest that G-d recreates the entire Universe, instant by instant, and some of the quantum mechanical research show that nothing really "is", and that from instant to instant, things go from "being" to "not being" to "being" all over again.

I have no clue what happens after death -- G-d didn't tell us.  I hope things work out, but I don't "do" what I do thinking I'm going to get magical presents from Sky Daddy, or go to Magic Sky Wonderworld when I'm dead.  I do them because I believe living my life the way I do makes this a better planet.  Since I've managed to reproduce, I'd like to leave this a better world for my descendants.  It's all about the DNA and making sure my DNA has as good a go of it as possible.

If there is a Heaven, I believe there will be more ethical Atheists than hypocritical Christians up there.  And if there is a Hell, I believe there will be fewer ethical Atheists than hypocritical Christians.  I'm a "it matters what you do, not what you believe" kinda gal.  If you're a dick, you go to Hell (assuming it exists), if you treat people humanely, you go to Heaven (if it exists).  Anything else is stupid and cruel and any deity who'd do otherwise should be told to get lost.

In Judaism, it really is more important to treat people right than to do all the things other religions seem to think are important.  For example, Yom Kippur is only about the sins we commit against G-d.  If I sin against some neighbor, I'm responsible for fixing that.  Neither G-d nor my Rabbi can fix it.

Judaism also doesn't attempt to convert people.  You don't want to be a Jew?  Fine by me, at least be a decent human being.  You want to become a Jew?  Why would you ever want to do such a thing?  No, really -- why do you want to be a Jew?  Just be a decent human being.  You insist?  Sure, fine.  Welcome to the Tribe, just be sure to be a decent human being, okay?

Thanks for the elaboration.

FurryCatHerder wrote:
That's it.  Pretty different from what you probably thought Judaism was all about, no?

Ya much...lol

I can dig it.

I can respect someone for 'believing' in lots of things without any evidence for their beliefs. It's just when they start telling me their beliefs are 'absolutely' the 'way it is' and start feeling they have the intellectual high ground based on 'scripture' and presume to lecture others, or when they want to argue that it's 'logical' to assume that their belief is 'true'.

I think you know what I mean...

 

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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FurryCatHerder wrote:redneF

FurryCatHerder wrote:

redneF wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

No, I'm a Jew.  We not only don't believe in Jesus, we also don't believe in Super Magical Sky Santa who sends servers for the asking.

One god away from becoming an atheist, huh?...

I'll have you know there is no "You must believe in G-d" commandment in Judaism.

I'm sorry, but I don't know what "G-d" is. Is that internet lingo like ROTFLMAO?

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FurryCatHerder wrote:That's

FurryCatHerder wrote:

That's it.  Pretty different from what you probably thought Judaism was all about, no?

no, that's precisely what i knew it was about, at least in these feel-good times.  if this is judaism (and it is, for most people nowadays), then there's no fucking point to judaism existing (and there isn't).

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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iwbiek wrote:FurryCatHerder

iwbiek wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

That's it.  Pretty different from what you probably thought Judaism was all about, no?

no, that's precisely what i knew it was about, at least in these feel-good times.  if this is judaism (and it is, for most people nowadays), then there's no fucking point to judaism existing (and there isn't).

That's what Judaism was about 3,500 years ago.

As for their being no point, there's no fucking point to Atheism existing, now is there?  I mean, what does Atheism stand for?  What is your objective for your life?  What kind of planet do =you= want this to be or become?  What's the official Atheist Creed or Grand Scheme for the People of Planet Earth?

When you can convince me the non-existent "Atheist Creed" or whatever is "better", then I'll agree there's no fucking point to the existence of Jews or Judaism.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:No, he

FurryCatHerder wrote:
No, he merely claimed they didn't.

A blatant and obvious lie. Your debate skills, or should I say lack thereof, have degenerated since your last activity spurt.

FurryCatHerder wrote:
alt.atheism, and countless other places for Atheists on the Interwebs, existed LONG before this website.  Which makes him wrong.

Nope. You're the one who's wrong. You're just too stupid to recognise the basic errors you make constantly. Smiling

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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FurryCatHerder wrote:As for

FurryCatHerder wrote:
As for their being no point, there's no fucking point to Atheism existing, now is there?

Categorical error. Atheism is a default. No comparison.

A 6 year old could do better.

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FurryCatHerder wrote:That's

FurryCatHerder wrote:

That's what Judaism was about 3,500 years ago.

naked assertion.  i've already called your bullshit in the past regarding judaism, quoting jewish authorities, to the point where your only fallback was "oh, you can't really understand judaism because you're not jewish," which i guess is the narrow-minded convert's only defense when she encounters a "gentile" who knows more about the history and development of her adopted religion than she does.  funny how none of the jewish scholars and rabbis (including one very orthodox rabbi from london) i've had the pleasure of talking to in the past have played that card on me.  of course, none of them spend their time badgering atheists online for no apparent reason.

FurryCatHerder wrote:

I mean, what does Atheism stand for? 

see what vastet said.  try again.

FurryCatHerder wrote:

What is your objective for your life?

ti be a good husband, father, teacher, musician, and human being.  and i don't need judaism or any religion to do that.  nor does anyone else.

FurryCatHerder wrote:

What kind of planet do =you= want this to be or become?

a thoroughly secular humanist one, where priests, pastors, rabbis, and mullahs have all gone the way of the druids and the delphic oracle, and yahweh and allah the way of zeus and odin.  for one thing, maybe then people will realize the "holy land" is nothing more than a shitty pile of rocks and sand with a shitty climate that nobody in their right mind would want to fight over.

FurryCatHerder wrote:

When you can convince me the non-existent "Atheist Creed" or whatever is "better", then I'll agree there's no fucking point to the existence of Jews or Judaism.

there's no fucking point in any creeds and there never has been, g-ddammit.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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Let's   see how messhuggah

Let's   see how messhuggah this discussion can get, and invite in Jews for Jesus and an Orthodox jesus-blocker:

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


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Vastet wrote:FurryCatHerder

Vastet wrote:
FurryCatHerder wrote:
No, he merely claimed they didn't.
A blatant and obvious lie. Your debate skills, or should I say lack thereof, have degenerated since your last activity spurt.

Okay, so now I add "pathological liar" to your list of character flaws.

Vastet wrote:
FurryCatHerder wrote:
alt.atheism, and countless other places for Atheists on the Interwebs, existed LONG before this website.  Which makes him wrong.
Nope. You're the one who's wrong. You're just too stupid to recognise the basic errors you make constantly. Smiling

You claimed in your original whine that these "places" only "recently" existed.  I provided a counter-example, which was available world-wide to millions, if not billions by the time RR came into existence, of "safe" spaces for Atheists to discuss Atheism.

If you want to believe that this website is somehow new and unique and wonderful, that's fine -- it just means you're wrong.  From the FAQ for alt.atheism --

Quote:

What is the purpose of alt.atheism?

Alt.atheism was created in 1990 as a place to discuss atheism and atheist topics. All are welcome in the newsgroup, whether they're atheists or not. The topics of the newsgroup include:

 

  • Whether it is reasonable to pretend to be religious in order to avoid upsetting your family
  • Prayer in schools
  • Discrimination against atheists
  • Sunday trading laws
  • The Satanic Child Abuse myth
  • Whether you should be an overt atheist or 'stay in the closet'
  • How religious societies prey (sic) on new college students
  • How to get rid of unwanted proselytizers
  • Whether religion is a danger to society and/or the individual
  • Why people become atheists

So, clearly not only does alt.atheism predate this website by the entire existence of the World Wide Waste, it also had a world-wide reach and covered many of the topics which are commonly discussed here.  Furthermore, through the existence of such things as DejaNews and Google Groups, it was available to anyone with a web browser.

Other websites, like Internet Infidels, have been around for years longer, and so far as I can tell, has had a far greater reach, for far longer.  Providing yet another counter-argument to the truth of your whine.

You're just wrong.  I'm sorry your wrong.  I'm sorry that of all the posters on this web site, many of whom seem to be very bright and decent human beings, you're fairly stupid and a general asshat.  If I could figure out how to put your posts on "Ignore", I would because there's really just no point in reading them.

 

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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zarathustra wrote:Let's  

zarathustra wrote:

Let's   see how messhuggah this discussion can get, and invite in Jews for Jesus and an Orthodox jesus-blocker:

Heh.  The woman who turned me on to "What Jews think when Christians aren't looking" was involved with Jews for Judaism.  The first exchange of "interesting reading" was a laundry list of anti-Missionary reading material -- what good little Jewish boys and girls are given when the Christians come calling.

So, I sat down and read it all.  By the time I was done, I understood why my mother was so adamant that I never study Judaism, going so far as to follow me around to different churches I joined and make sure my minister knew I was one of those Christians who was going to run off and study Judaism first chance I got.  When I started uncovering all the Jews in my family tree, well, that was icing on the cake.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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iwbiek wrote:FurryCatHerder

iwbiek wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

That's what Judaism was about 3,500 years ago.

naked assertion.  i've already called your bullshit in the past regarding judaism, quoting jewish authorities, to the point where your only fallback was "oh, you can't really understand judaism because you're not jewish," which i guess is the narrow-minded convert's only defense when she encounters a "gentile" who knows more about the history and development of her adopted religion than she does.  funny how none of the jewish scholars and rabbis (including one very orthodox rabbi from london) i've had the pleasure of talking to in the past have played that card on me.  of course, none of them spend their time badgering atheists online for no apparent reason.

Last item first -- what have I "badgered" you about?  Is that like this video --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

To be completely honest, I don't remember you well enough (it's not like I come here all the time ...) to know if you've ever successfully or unsuccessfully called my "bullshit".  Telling someone "you don't know about X because you aren't an X" isn't a dodge.  You're an outsider, gee I'm sorry, what you know is minimal in comparison to someone who isn't.  I'm not a Geologist, so I don't presume to tell Geologist what is or isn't valid within the field of geology.

The people I remember best are "Atheistextremeist", who seems like a fairly decent guy and someone I wouldn't mind knowing and hanging out with in meatspace; "Sapient", who seems to be very bright and whose posts I often enjoy reading; and "Vastet", who seems to be among the least well-educated and rudest of the bunch.  And that's about it.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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good one

 The Rabbi said "God created Mormons to show Christians how the Jews feel". Good one.  

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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FurryCatHerder wrote:I don't

FurryCatHerder wrote:

I don't remember you well enough


i don't expect you to.

FurryCatHerder wrote:

I'm not a Geologist, so I don't presume to tell Geologist what is or isn't valid within the field of geology.

false analogy.  you go to school to become a geologist.  i went to school to study religion, and most of my courses were in judaism and early christianity.  one of my professors was jewish.  obviously she considered me enough of an "expert" to agree to my receiving a degree from the religion dept.  since that time, using the skills i learned and a voracious reading appetite, my knowledge has only deepened.  just as i'm confident i can hold my own discussing the development of christianity with the average sunday school student, i think i can hold my own discussing the development of judaism with the average yeshiva student.  your being a member of the jewish community, be it from birth or later in life, does not magically give you more knowledge of judaism than those who are not.  sorry.

in fact, since i've been in the academic realm of religious studies, however humbly, i think that makes you the outsider.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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Quote:Okay, so now I add

Quote:
Okay, so now I add "pathological liar" to your list of character flaws.

You can project every failing you have on me if it makes you feel better about getting your ass handed to you so publically and irreversibly. Smiling

Quote:
You claimed in your original whine that these "places" only "recently" existed.

No, I said atheists (ie: in general) didn't have access to them until recently. I didn't specify all or most or some or one. You inferred that I was referring to every atheist and every scenario in one sentence and created a strawman that has been ridiculously easy to destroy. Your desperate backpeddling can not save you from irrelevance.

Btw, your link supports me. 1990 is very recent.

Feel free to continue making a fool of yourself. Many of us are amused.

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Vastet wrote:Quote:Okay, so

Vastet wrote:
Quote:
Okay, so now I add "pathological liar" to your list of character flaws.
You can project every failing you have on me if it makes you feel better about getting your ass handed to you so publically and irreversibly. Smiling
Quote:
You claimed in your original whine that these "places" only "recently" existed.
No, I said atheists (ie: in general) didn't have access to them until recently. I didn't specify all or most or some or one. You inferred that I was referring to every atheist and every scenario in one sentence and created a strawman that has been ridiculously easy to destroy. Your desperate backpeddling can not save you from irrelevance. Btw, your link supports me. 1990 is very recent. Feel free to continue making a fool of yourself. Many of us are amused.

OMG.

You use an Internet forum (Rational Responders) as an example, I provide you with an earlier Internet forum (alt.atheism) and then you move the goal posts.

You really are one of the dimmer posters here.

Prior to the Internet, back in the 17th century, there were a very large number of spaces, all throughout Europe, where concepts that evolved into modern Atheism flourished.  In many cases, 18th century adherents of these concepts were persecuted, but a large number of them went on to found the country to the immediate south of Canada.  This continued from them, as well as from previously, until the modern era.  The modern era interpretation of 17th century non-specific-theists ("Deists&quotEye-wink are frequently claimed by Atheists as their own, owing primarily to their lack of specific theological values ("I see G-d in all of nature ..." or whatever).

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Your continued attempts are

Your continued attempts are as amusing as your previous ones, but knocking down your own strawman over and over just keeps proving your stupidity.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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iwbiek wrote:FurryCatHerder

iwbiek wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

I don't remember you well enough


i don't expect you to.

I try to remember people.  If you're memorable, or I recognize your avatar, I'll remember you.  For example, add Bob Spence to people I remember from here.

iwbiek wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

I'm not a Geologist, so I don't presume to tell Geologist what is or isn't valid within the field of geology.

false analogy.  you go to school to become a geologist.  i went to school to study religion, and most of my courses were in judaism and early christianity.  one of my professors was jewish.  obviously she considered me enough of an "expert" to agree to my receiving a degree from the religion dept.  since that time, using the skills i learned and a voracious reading appetite, my knowledge has only deepened.  just as i'm confident i can hold my own discussing the development of christianity with the average sunday school student, i think i can hold my own discussing the development of judaism with the average yeshiva student.  your being a member of the jewish community, be it from birth or later in life, does not magically give you more knowledge of judaism than those who are not.  sorry.

in fact, since i've been in the academic realm of religious studies, however humbly, i think that makes you the outsider.

You don't go to school to be a Jew, or to "think like a Jew".  At the end of all your studies, you can't go to a Rabbi and say "Make me a Jew".  The best you might be able to claim is that you're a "Jew-ologist" or a "Religion-ologist".  Congratulations -- you're an expert in studying.

I've studied Physics at a fairly high level, as well a number of fields of Engineering, as well as done my fair share of blue collar work with "stuff I might have engineered at some time."

Your studies of Judaism, for all of its academic merit, isn't living =within= the thing you're discussing.  Judaism, as well you know, is neither dead nor static, and has never been dead or static.  But at its core are certain aspects which are attested going back to the earliest agreed-upon dates for Sifrei Torah.  The feel-good-ness of Tikkun Olam isn't a 20th Century fabrication.  Nor are concepts, such as "righteous Gentiles".  Without knowing what you're claiming is a modern fabrication, I can't speak to anything else, but the general attacks on Modern Liberal Judaism tend to focus on "Oh, you just made up this ``Secular Humanism with a dash of G-d'' stuff in the last century."  Assuming the Torah was invented in 500 BCE by Ezra, Judaism has been a Socialistic, "Treat people nicely so long as they are nice people" religion for at least 2,500 years.  For a number of reasons I don't much believe it was invented by Ezra, so I use the earlier date I gave you -- sometime in the 15th century or so BCE.  If you want to continue to disagree with what I wrote, you'll need to be a lot more specific.  You'll also have to use Jewish sources ...

The danger of being an =student=, rather than a =practioner= is a bit like studying metals and working with metals.  Unless you've done both, you really only have half the picture, and that appears to be the case with you.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Vastet wrote:Your continued

Vastet wrote:
Your continued attempts are as amusing as your previous ones, but knocking down your own strawman over and over just keeps proving your stupidity.

Whatever.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."