My dear friends.

 I lost my dad. To a woman. The man I knew and yes, even admired in many aspects was dead for about three years and instead there is this impostor, for whom us, his wife of 25 years and children are unimportant. Right now I feel awful. I am mad at him and really disgusted of what he did, how and why.  Those who know me, know my idealistic pink glasses. I can trust more than anyone, because I don't want to live without trust. Maybe the more it hurts. Didn't I see the signs? Holy shit, how many signs I recall now. Any dedicated website can list them. Long time out of home, even on christmas and birthdays, lack of participation in housekeeping, sudden interest in working out, lots of chatting on the computer, you name it. But I thought, no, I didn't even think about that possibility, because nobody knows more about life, psychology and human mistakes more than my dad. It's his second job, after all. Well, turns out that not everyone thinks with their brain.  Yes, I know that woman too. A family friend, we helped her a lot. She had a great boyfriend until now. He repaired her house, bought her a car, let her tank fuel at his job. Great guy, even her daughter liked him. Now he wants to smash my dad's face and can't say I'm against it. Be my guest! Her previous marriage was a disaster, her husband tried to kill her with a knife. So she got this great guy who gave her everything and apparently this wasn't enough? She had to go for my dad, who's, let's admit it, poorer, older and fatter? Love works in mysterious ways. Specially when they both were well off, but wanted more. There is no satiation for a pair of gluttons.  The worst thing was, my mom found all their electronic correspondence for 3 years. He forgot to close his account, I think he used TrueCrypt. And that reading is awful. This is not an orderly infidelity with style or informed and consenting polyamory, far from it. Things he writes about my mom... And the rumors he spreads about her behind her back...  Apparently, it helps to dehumanize the person you want to betray, slander, steal money from, make her iron your shirts... She won't dare not to iron them, LOL! I am amazed beyond hate, how can he treat my mom without a slightest shred of respect. We salvaged some funds and won't move a finger for him. My dad of course wants to act as if nothing happened, but locked bedroom and no more ironing sends some message. Now we wait for some deciding event that will drive him out completely. I hope they both will be happy as much as you can be happy with a traitor, liar, slanderer and thief (there were some substantial private uses of our family bank account). There are damn few happy cases of Love vol. II. From what I saw of the records, they both act like a pair of 14 year olds on viagra. I wouldn't bet there will be much left when the bubblegum of forbidden fruit flavor gets all chewed out. But sometimes people don't think with their brain. The brain just plays along with dick, with no less ingenuity. Say one thing or two for my dad, he's a good actor and very resourceful. He can work with truckers or people with degrees, doesn't matter. He can keep a low profile at work and he can make lecture to a hundred of people. And, he can play a family man, though he isn't one. But currently he works at a company full of Seventh day adventists. I am really curious about his career prospects when these godly folks will find out how my dad honors the sacred commitment of marriage. That would be a wonderful irony, if they'd found out. But again, my dad is very resourceful and intuitive, it is as likely he'd land back on his feet, without learning a lesson of hard fall. There is no chance of mending the relationship, not with the man my dad really is. He turned out to have a completely twisted and self-contradictory notion of morality, relationship, marriage... Who was the one, who preached respect to your life partner and mutual planning of the future, but really did exactly the opposite? At the same time, he doesn't think much of monogamy and started a campaign against his own, through spreading slander and derision of my mother's work. He doesn't realize the impact of it on anyone else's feelings, by which the family is connected. Looks like he is incapable of learning from his mistakes, with total belief in his own theories. As such, I can not really hate him, I don't think he is thinking clearly enough to realize what he is and does. Of course, I can be disgusted and mad.  So yes, there are some changes in our lives. I constantly think of future and constantly stop myself, wait, this is not the future anymore. This is the past. Each time it gives me that feeling like a stab in my guts. It is like an auto-immune reaction, a subconscious attempt to destroy every neural connection that might lead me to think about him. Burning out the wounds.The rest of us seem to bear it well. We'll have to stick close. I've got two grown brothers, both work & drive cars & have girlfriends. We will survive somehow. We must move carefully, no sudden Facebook defriending so soon. I will continue as planned, I've got savings to study next year for a Bachelor degree and I will get a part-time job when that time comes. There won't be that much support from home anymore. Perhaps still something from my dad, he's got nothing against me personally. (maybe until he reads this) I'm not sure what will remain out of my already too thinly spread emotionality after that. But I might become a stronger, more decisive guy, less afraid, more confident, having gone through this. When it stops hurting so much. There is this comforting feeling, that I hardly ever will be able to do such a huge mistake as he did. And of course, the dark humor helps. Finally I have a topic of conversation that most of my classmates can relate with  

 

Sorry to hear about how you have been betrayed.  Sometimes it is difficult to know what's going on in a relationship, even your parents.  The intimacy in a marriage can take a backseat to the mundane and at that point you have the option of divorce for no apparent reason (other than no intimacy) or carry on for the sake of the kids/relatives/friends, and cheat.  

It's not always black and white, but it probably has the biggest impact on the kids.

IF your parents are getting a divorce because of his affair, that sucks. BUT, your dad was not having sex with you, so for you to say "I lost my dad to a woman". No you did not. he broke his contract with your mother. He wasn't married to you.

luca wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

IF your parents are getting a divorce because of his affair, that sucks. BUT, your dad was not having sex with you, so for you to say "I lost my dad to a woman". No you did not. he broke his contract with your mother. He wasn't married to you.

Yes but he said that his father was thinking... not with his brain, so, Luminon continues, teached (or more simply manifested) a decent morality and all that, BUT with the interaction with said woman all went down for the wc. So for the last 3 years his father was an illusion. That's what I understood.

Yes, you understood it well. It's like finding a perfectly disguised total stranger living with you, and not a nice one.

luca wrote:

 Luminon, are you saying (with polyamory) that now your father is actually in love with more than a woman? I did not get it. Did you talk with your father much? You say that the evidence for this turning of events was there, but I (not trying to be rude) am not so convinced that there was a very strong bond between the two of you if you didn't get some nuances. If you really deeply understood him, how could have he kept this secret from you? Also did you really tried to speak to him after this all happened?

No, my dad is in love with one woman. He sometimes spoke, that in the future marriages might be different, stuff like group marriages. I only didn't know how near future he actually meant  But seriously, he'd be happy to live in a de facto polyamory, had he been given chance. Except that even in polyamory people must be honest with each other. 

No, we never talked much. Or we did, but about hobbies that interest us, stuff like science, astrology, psychology, politics, society... Most of people I know just don't have brains for such a conversation. Anyway, last 2 years I live study out of home, except for weekends. And there are my illusory pink glasses. I hold a hard work in high esteem (specially when someone else is doing it for me) and wouldn't think of questioning my dad's work and travel schedule, where he goes and how he spends time. 
Maybe the bond wasn' t very strong, maybe it was, but I definitely liked him more than mom, we got along better. We had a similar personality, while mom can be sometimes a bit too demanding and pedantic. My dad definitely didn't sweat the small stuff and I appreciated that. I didn't say I understood him, maybe I only thought so, based on outer similarity. We tend to assume, that beneath their faces people think as we think.
But anyway, the point is that my dad acted for 3 years completely differently than anyone would expect on him, with all we knew about him. There was no way we'd believe it without a strong, direct evidence. Some of us had our suspicions, like mom or older brother, but these things aren't told lightly witout the evidence.

Yes, I tried speaking to him, but the conversation wasn't very fruitful. He cried and I was close to it myself. Afraid of losing his place in home of 25 years is no small deal, I can understand that. His point was, that I might find myself in the same situation, one day. I don't know what to say on that, maybe only that I'm rather the type to be cheated on by a woman, rather than otherwise. Felt bad about it next two days. Too bad I can do nothing and don't know what to do anyway. I only know there have to be consequences, mom is only beginning to get angry. Of course, she wants to deal with that herself, that's a decent thing to do. I'll be as much support for her as possible.

luca wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

IF your parents are getting a divorce because of his affair, that sucks. BUT, your dad was not having sex with you, so for you to say "I lost my dad to a woman". No you did not. he broke his contract with your mother. He wasn't married to you.

Yes but he said that his father was thinking... not with his brain, so, Luminon continues, teached (or more simply manifested) a decent morality and all that, BUT with the interaction with said woman all went down for the wc. So for the last 3 years his father was an illusion. That's what I understood.

Yes, you understood it well. It's like finding a perfectly disguised total stranger living with you, and not a nice one.

 

luca wrote:

Luminon, are you saying (with polyamory) that now your father is actually in love with more than a woman? I did not get it. Did you talk with your father much? You say that the evidence for this turning of events was there, but I (not trying to be rude) am not so convinced that there was a very strong bond between the two of you if you didn't get some nuances. If you really deeply understood him, how could have he kept this secret from you? Also did you really tried to speak to him after this all happened?

 

No, my dad is in love with one woman. He sometimes spoke, that in the future marriages might be different, stuff like group marriages. I only didn't know how near future he actually meant But seriously, he'd be happy to live in a de facto polyamory, had he been given chance. Except that even in polyamory people must be honest with each other. 

 

No, we never talked much. Or we did, but about hobbies that interest us, stuff like science, astrology, psychology, politics, society... Most of people I know just don't have brains for such a conversation. Anyway, last 2 years I live study out of home, except for weekends. And there are my illusory pink glasses. I hold a hard work in high esteem (specially when someone else is doing it for me) and wouldn't think of questioning my dad's work and travel schedule, where he goes and how he spends time. 

Maybe the bond wasn' t very strong, maybe it was, but I definitely liked him more than mom, we got along better. We had a similar personality, while mom can be sometimes a bit too demanding and pedantic. My dad definitely didn't sweat the small stuff and I appreciated that. I didn't say I understood him, maybe I only thought so, based on outer similarity. We tend to assume, that beneath their faces people think as we think.

But anyway, the point is that my dad acted for 3 years completely differently than anyone would expect on him, with all we knew about him. There was no way we'd believe it without a strong, direct evidence. Some of us had our suspicions, like mom or older brother, but these things aren't told lightly witout the evidence.

 

Yes, I tried speaking to him, but the conversation wasn't very fruitful. He cried and I was close to it myself. Afraid of losing his place in home of 25 years is no small deal, I can understand that. His point was, that I might find myself in the same situation, one day. I don't know what to say on that, maybe only that I'm rather the type to be cheated on by a woman, rather than otherwise. Felt bad about it next two days. Too bad I can do nothing and don't know what to do anyway. I only know there have to be consequences, mom is only beginning to get angry. Of course, she wants to deal with that herself, that's a decent thing to do. I'll be as much support for her as possible.

Thank you all for responses. You make me feel better.

Brian37 wrote:

Lum, let me see if I understand this. Basically your dad had an affair and as a result your parents are getting a divorce? If so, then read the following. If not, correct me.

IF your parents are getting a divorce because of his affair, that sucks. BUT, your dad was not having sex with you, so for you to say "I lost my dad to a woman". No you did not. he broke his contract with your mother. He wasn't married to you.

Now, that is not to say you shouldn't be hurt. Your emotions are yours. But that only makes him human, not a criminal. There were things in that marriage that had nothing to do with you that lead him to do what he did.

You don't have to like what he did, but what he did was between him and your mother. It is no reflection on you. These things happen because they do, it happens all the time. There is no utopia, you just happened to have a father who did this.

You don't have to excuse him, but he is not a murderer. I'd say keep yourself out of the situation and let your parents deal with it between themselves.

I wasn't there so I am not privy to the entire deal. But, the marriage was theirs not yours. If you need to stay away from him now, I understand. But marriages take two people and their may be things you are not privy to that lead to this.

Most of the time when either a woman or man does this, in any relationship, it can contain multiple factors. The couple never should have gotten married in the first place. One or the other loses interest in the relationship but doesn't want to hurt the other. Lack of communication. Lack of good conflict resolution skills. Financial issues. One of these things or a multiple of these things culminate over time and never happen suddenly.

Affairs when ANYONE does it, man or woman, are done as some sort of gap filling, something they feel they are missing within the marriage. It is not to suggest that you should forgive or forget. Just pointing out it is part of our human condition and understanding WHY, while not an excuse, can help in dealing with such issues. 

I see your point. I'm a lot calmer now, not so mad anymore. Yeah, my dad got himself a lover. That happens. But what really added to it was the way how he did it, the worst way possible. Deceit is one thing. Laughing behind the spouse's back is something else. Misusing the partners' trust is no achievement. I am not sure now if and when there will be a divorce, but even a divorce can be handled with dignity and honesty. Instead there is this messy business of lies, betrayal, secret bank accounts and so on. All that from a man who'd be least expected to do anything like that. If we wouldn't have extremely good evidence, we wouldn't believe it.

In family, people are connected by relationships. It's not just between my parents. If mom is hurt, I feel hurt and I really can't help it. Just by imagining how she must feel. My dad seems to totally not understand that. To make things more messy, my dad genuinely regrets what happened, but I can see it's because he got caught. He doesn't have much awareness about of empathy, loyalty to the family and respect for the life partner. Although I heard him preaching on the partner respect more than once. He thinks it's righteous and spiritual to enjoy life and deep down doesn't know what everyone's so upset about. He'd like it best to have no consequences at all. Which is an immature attitude. Hell, all this acting behind our back with no thought of consequences is immature. He's like when I was a kid, hiding my school index with really bad grades. I'd never think that of him, and the disillusionment adds to the grief.

I regret my dad thinks mom influences us brothers against him, or something. Quite opposite, she keeps nothing from us, tells us things as they happen and provides evidence. She doesn't even speak disrespectfully about my dad behind his back. 

Yeah, I'm getting myself together fast. I guess I'll be more help at home if I get over this quickly. And I'll stay out of the mess, mainly because I've got no idea what to do. There have to be consequences. But any punishment we inflict upon my dad will hurt also us, economically at least. It's a big, old house to take care of. So I'll just support mom, whatever she decides.

 

natural wrote:

Sorry to hear that, Luminon. That's a really serious betrayal. I could not even imagine. 

Take care of yourself. It will probably require some grieving, and that takes time. Eventually the hurt will lessen, and you may find that you can learn a lot about yourself and people in general from this painful experience. I think you have the kind of insight/intuition to gain some greater perspective on this, in time. In the meantime, take it easy on yourself, and stay connected with people you can really trust.

Yeah, definitely. This experience will definitely make me grow, rely less on parents' money and more on my strength. I don't like the insight, though. The more I learn about the situation, the less it gives sense. You think you know someone and it's not true at all. If I learned something, then how to appreciate absurd and dark humor.  I'd be less surprised if my dad would turn out to be a Russian immigrant double, who murdered my dad and replaced him to hide from the mafia

 

Kapkao wrote:

 Trust sucks when dealing with certain types of individuals. Your father's current living companion seems to factor in as one such individual based on what you have described so far. It would be easier to understand just what sort of people you are talking about if I could somehow observe them in person, through live interaction and of course... in your native language. But in any case, some individuals are more deserving of trust than others. It's a 'survival skill' or coping mechanism that I believe you will need to develop at some point or another.

What sort of people? Spiritual ones. Those, who pride themselves with understanding the law of action and result (karma), believe in reincarnation and next life consequences, believe in love, trust and mutual cooperation. My dad is an astrologer, besides his daily job. He had hundreds of clients and he sees into their lives, problems, vices and virtues, life crises and so on. Nobody knows life better than my dad, or so I was utterly convinced. But apparently, even if he did, it's worth nothing when thinking with balls instead of brains.

Btw, my dad always kept bragging on how many potential health problems he might have, (with his terrible horoscope) But doesn't have any heart attacks and so on, unlike other men of his age, because of right living according to the 'higher laws'. And I believe that might work, sort of. Since he only started cheating 3 years ago, we might observe changes to the worse in his health, specially after this very stressful situation. More reasons why his actions are utter foolishness.

Kapkao wrote:

 I wouldn't call you "idealistic" in the negative or mocking sense just yet, though. You are a bit more focused than most people your age, and certainly more so than people from older generations. You may not realize it just yet, but you said you are at an age (22 or 23, right?) where your mind is still sucking in quite a bit of information and knowledge, so I believe it is a safe assumption that you will eventually recover and learn from whatever life experiences your father is unintentionally giving you. 

Yes, it's 23. And I'm idealistic, I mean, I like things like truth no matter what, and more than that, telling exact, detailed truth. Lying is very uncomfortable for me. I've usually been on the "right" side and had nothing to gain by lying anyway. I also like order, decent behavior for the sake of it, thinking ahead, preventing consequences, avoiding casualties, acting openly, considering people's feelings, stuff like that. If I'm really afraid of something, it's guilt. I can't stand being guilty of anything. So I avoid bad actions and unfortunately, also opportunities for taking a responsibility for something that might fail. 

Kapkao wrote:

 Affairs in what was thought to be a stable family always catches people by surprise. Recounting my own experiences with this, I recall my biological parents hunting for "meaningful" additions to the family after divorce (at age 4 no less), me not knowing wtf they were doing specifically, and me asking "why are we visiting this woman's house again? I hate it there".

Your father is looking for "greener pastures" meaning he looking for some sort of future-ex-wife to fulfill some sort of desire or need he wasn't getting at your mother's place. Not necessarily some disgusting carnal fixation that you would rather not even consider, it can be as simple as having matching personalities or fulfilling a social need that was not previously met.

Yeah, pretty much. The problem is, for some reason he did not move on openly, but acted against the whole family secretly and subversively. He wanted both, the stability of family and the romance of love. He wanted more of everything, both pastures at once at his disposal. That would make his life good and several years later he'd move away with his mistress, probably with a good chunk of money saved on their shared account. These were his plans.

Kapkao wrote:

 Even more evidence that he's a parasite. Unfortunately, he doesn't appear to be the sort of person that will move out on his own. He has to have a clear message he can't stay there any longer. Like, an eviction notice or perhaps a law enforcement-related event to convince him to leave from your mother's place. As I do not have all the specifics on your situation, I can't comment a great deal about it.

Yes, I suppose so. He wanted more love elsewhere, but my mom must have subconsciously perceived the signs and got colder towards him, so he got a reason to complain. 
Yeah, my dad would love to stay, but he's well aware that he might have to move out, told me himself. I don't think eviction will be necessary, any kind of force. As I said earlier, I don't actually hate him. I may be mad and disgusted by his actions, but no hate. He did many years a good job as a parent, better than most. I only regret that in the end, he had to lose all trustworthiness he had and appear as a threat to the family. This all business would be much less messy, if he had the guts to lay down all the cards when there was time, but then he would have to part with half the prize, right? I still believe he would never use violence against my mom and there never was any evidence of otherwise. (besides, both my brothers are strong guys) Hell, we haven't ever heard them both using any real cuss words, ever. We're that much civilized, at least.

 

Kapkao wrote:

 And perhaps these adventists attempt to sweep his past behavior under the rug simply because that is how some religious people operate. They might "protect their own".

IMO, we're well-known as an outspoken half-atheist, half-occultist family. Maybe local believers would see it as a divine punishment. But then, I'd point out my highly religious neighbours, who's one kid has birth deformation of nasal cavity open into mouth, the mother has brain cancer and the father recently broke bones in a bike accident. Looks like God likes the heathens better anyway. So what Kain did when God liked Abel more?

 

Kapkao wrote:

Your dad sounds a helluva lot like my mom, and what a selfish, morally twisted individual she is. She too is an emotional parasite, and speaking in a metaphor, she will attempt to suck my blood dry without consciously deciding to. It is her life habit to do so; damn her rotten hide and the hide of everyone she enlists to her aid when she does this 'poor pitiful me' act she is given to do. She has become an expert manipulator and though she can act kindly, she does so only for her emotional benefit. You all might think that I acquired my thick skin towards the actions of others (on-line or off-) from dealing with her, and when I'm done spending brief moments holiday time with her, I let loose a sigh of relief out of being done with her for several months.

To me, the recent phenomena of getting away from one's parents after having nearly two decades of experience with them and all their faults, is enormously sympathetic.

 

Sincere condolences. Living like that all the time, that had to be awful. Your mom sounds like my grandma who died on breast cancer when my dad was in puberty. She probably contributed to his lack of family values. You see how the shit falls down the generations. I was lucky to have it fall on me so late in life. 
 
 

Kapkao wrote:

 He stops by RRS regularly? You told him you go to RRS? ........... well, in any case...

(note to self: stop treading on dangerous waters) DELETED

No, I never told him about RRS, not a word. I like my privacy a lot, privacy is freedom. Unless he did some serious googling, he shouldn't know anything. But I think he's always been too busy to even think of that.
 
 

Kapkao wrote:

 You'll recover from this eventually. Of that much I am sure. The question I see now is 'how do you plan to deal with future, family-related incidents?'. That's a tough question if you are at the age I suspect you are at. It may even be harder than you initially realize.

Yes, I will recover. Dark humor helped a lot. Also some improvised woo energetic practices and meditations. And then something. A realization, that I will be able to forgive him. Not now, not soon, but I am sure that in the future I will, when everything will settle down. It may not seem like much, but it took a huge burden from my heart.
As for future family incidents, I don't think there will be much family to speak of afterwards. Both of my brothers work and have girlfriends and cars. So to speak, they're almost independent, emotionally and materially. I spend most of the week away from home, at dorm room in the city where I study. The only thing that can go wrong now with is grandma, she doesn't know anything yet AFAIK. As a mother-in-law, that would be some water on her proverbial mill

 

 

jezis, tvoj otec fakt je stary kokot.  nevadi, mas svoj zivot a mozes byt lepsi, a my vseci verime, ze budes.  naozaj, je mi velmi luto ked musim to citat.  moj nevlastny otec robil take iste, do pici.  drzim palce pre teba a celu rodinu.

I'm getting the impression you, at least partly, blame yourself. You think you should have seen it, hindsight is 20/20 afterall, and done something. But in fact it's just as well you didn't see it. While being able to trust people to such an extent can result in the pain of betrayal, the only real way to see through people sufficiently to catch them without an error on their part is to not trust anyone. At all. And relationships are impossible without trust. If you're constantly hounding a loved one for where they are at all times then they'll get sick of it and resent you, regardless of your reasoning. If you're spying on them they will eventually find out and resent you for it, again regardless of your reasoning. People know and are unhappy when they aren't trusted, and consciously or unconsciously seek to escape relationships where there is no trust. It can hurt, but the alternative is to be alone.

 Lum, my biological father flat out abandon me and my older brother and sister and our younger brother(who died when he was 3). No matter what bad things happen, to all of us. You don't have to forget, or forgive. But you do have to understand this happens and is an unfortunate part of life. It doesn't excuse it, it's just to say that life sucks sometimes.

YOU when you have relationships, having been through this, at least know what not to do. I was lucky with my x-wife in that WE both understood getting into it, that it was a reality, not a utopia. We had that trust and when she decided that she no longer wanted to be with me, she was honest about it. It still hurt, but it would have been worse if I had expected her to be loyal. That blind expectation if she had bought into it, could have caused her to hate me, or go behind my back. Because of our honesty, we parted, even though it still hurt, we parted without the hate or bitterness. I was really lucky with her in the way she handled it.

But most people are not introspective and get sold these mind traps that lead them to this type of unhealthy behavior. You're dad probably doesn't even know why he did it. Last year, after 41 years, I finally talked to my biological dad on the phone, because I found out he had testicular cancer. At that point my compassion kicked in, and although we both knew I didn't owe him shit, I felt at least better hearing him tell me how sorry he was for abandoning us. I haven't talked to him since. But the reality was, when people fuck up, there is some chance that down the road they can realize it.

Maybe your father wont. But the real thing you can deal with is you. Bitterness and hate wont help you deal with it long term. You can feel the emotions as you should, but after that you can only control what you do.