Asperger Syndrome Anyone?

rpcarnell
atheist
Posts: 118
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
Asperger Syndrome Anyone?

I don't know if I am being irrational myself, or there's a new trend coming, and we should be aware of it.

First of all, let's define Asperger Syndrome:

Asperger's syndrome (play /ˈɑːspərɡərz/[1], /ˈæspərɡərz/[2] or /ˈaspəːdʒə(r)z/ ass-pur-jə(r)z), also known as Asperger syndrome or Asperger disorder, is an autism spectrum disorder that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests. It differs from other autism spectrum disorders by its relative preservation of linguistic and cognitive development. Although not required for diagnosis, physical clumsiness and atypical use of language are frequently reported.}

Aspergers became a distinct disease and diagnosis in 1992, when it was included in the tenth published edition of the World Health Organization’s diagnostic manual. If that's the case, how come people keep diagnosing historical figures with it? Some of these people were not religious and smart. Is it possible that in the future atheists may be diagnosed as "Aspies", as these people like to call themselves? One of the problems Aspergerians is that they can fail to understand abstract concepts, like math, even though some people like Alan Turing might have had it. How dangerous would this be? It wouldn't be the first time psychologists persecute people for being different. They have done it to homosexuals in the past.

 

 

 


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Cpt_pineapple's picture
Posts: 5486
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
If Christians try, kindly

If Christians try, kindly inform them you cannot diagnos an entire population based on a wikipedia article entry regardless of how many times they read the DMS-IV from front to back.

 

I wouldn't worry about it, it's HIGHLY unlikely to gain any momentum withing the psychological community.

 

 

 

 


rpcarnell
atheist
Posts: 118
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
I don't think so either. It

I don't think so either. It wouldn't be the first time that some psychiatrist tries to give a mental illness to atheists, I bet.


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10599
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Aspergers is just today's

Aspergers is just today's "poor me" pop culture bs. Yesterday it was depression and before that it was ADHD. They are all real clinical conditions, but the vast majority of the references to it that you see come not from psychologists and psychiatrists, but from unqualified media sources and self diagnosed attention seekers and/or con artists.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


b33p3rz
Posts: 10
Joined: 2011-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Real condition in a sad environment

I've been interested in this recently as well and from what I can find, it's a *rare* social disorder that seems to only manifest from abuse of some sort, or negligence. Yet another disorder spawned from mankind's tendency to treat each other horribly. Yes it's a real disorder but what you said about abstract concepts is usually false.

I find a good example, although dramatized, to be on that old show, Boston Legal, with the character Jerry Espenson. He has diagnosed aspergers and it dramatized his social quirks, but he is excellent at practicing law. The same goes with what is usually identified as the "savant" phenomenon with autism, where socially or otherwise mentally deficient have a very specific concept that they are very good at.

As for your mentioned worries for many atheists or outspoken free-thinkers in society to get this label, I wouldn't carry that too far, as I don't think there could be a continuation of this kind of diagnosis on that scale, without harming the medical community itself.

That point mentioned however, there has always been the issue that Vastet brought up. Aspergers can and is being used just like ADHD and other social disorders to cheat the system for drugs that honestly seem like they should have never been made. I don't care how many times the kid that sits across from me on the bus pumps up his story of "Highballing" on Ritalin, I'm not going to get on board. This is all usually made possible by the -

Vastet wrote:

...vast majority of the references to it that you see come not from psychologists and psychiatrists, but from unqualified media sources and self diagnosed attention seekers and/or con artists.

Social disorders and the like seem to be in a sort of spotlight in society that can't really be tracked. The media's mockery of this seems to be more on par with how Justin Beiber gained the pedestal he has today. Things get grabbed, solicited, and thrown away. I believe this is one of those things for the time being...

 

*Edit- After reviewing the post, I'd like to add that given my defense for ADHD and Aspergers just now, I do NOT believe what is known as "depression" is an actual disorder. I agree in Vastet's words that "depression" is part of poor me pop culture bull (That comes with it's own serving of *groovy* drugs).


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
Ironic this issue comes up

Ironic this issue comes up like this.  Funny theists need to grasp at straws as society starts to realize who the crazies are.

Pienapple jump back in a time machine...

http://www.rationalresponders.com/still_dont_think_that_theism_is_a_mental_disorder

http://www.rationalresponders.com/still_dont_think_theism_is_a_mind_disorder_part_deux

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Cpt_pineapple's picture
Posts: 5486
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
Sapient wrote:Ironic this

Sapient wrote:

Ironic this issue comes up like this.  Funny theists need to grasp at straws as society starts to realize who the crazies are.

Pienapple jump back in a time machine...

http://www.rationalresponders.com/still_dont_think_that_theism_is_a_mental_disorder

http://www.rationalresponders.com/still_dont_think_theism_is_a_mind_disorder_part_deux

 

Yes I remember, and ironically they would have the same evidence. Cross-referencing with wikipedia.

 

 

 

 


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Cross-referencing with wikipedia.

You drunk?

He was posting a definition from wiki.  He isn't cross referencing anything.  And it was in fact the definition.

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


rpcarnell
atheist
Posts: 118
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
 This article, for example,

 

This article, for example, is frighteningly interesting. Not because it links Aspergers to atheism (perhaps this should have been another post), but because it equates Asperger Syndrome with lack of sexual morality. Notice the connection between pedophilia and Asperger in the beginning, and notice how the author says it'd be convenient for the Asperger-sufferer to rely on organized religion for sexual morality (close to the end).

web.archive.org/web/20101027084824/http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/aspergirls/201010/sex-what-do-people-aspergers-need-know

The article was taken down a few weeks ago, so I'll paste it here--------------------->

Dr. Nick Dubin, author of two books on Asperger syndrome, self-advocate and popular public speaker, has been arrested for possession of photos depicting boys ten to 14 years old in a sexually explicit manner. While I am certainly not qualified nor inclined to try Dr. Dubin on these pages, the event has kindled conversations in the autism community about the need for proper sex education for those of us on the autism spectrum.

Asperger syndrome is by its nature an isolating condition. I have spoken on this in my books and in this blog. Because of social isolation, we may not have the frequent, recurring contact with potential partners that neurotypicals might enjoy. We are not even adept at flirting, the most basic step in the romance dance. I have spent much of my adult life single. While I have often chosen partners out of convenience, desperation and extreme loneliness, I have now finally achieved a healthy relationship with someone who is both good for me and as far as I can tell, compatible. But it was not easy getting here. My teenage years were fraught with sexual mistakes including statutory rape and other dating fiascos...if you could call it dating. From what I know of my peers, dating is not something we with Aspergers like to do. We tend to meet and mate too quickly or not at all. We want to have good relationships, we just don't know how to go about getting one.

It is time to figure out in a practical, constructive way, what young people with Aspergers truly need from sex education to have a healthy and satisfying romantic life. I spoke about this issue with Robyn Steward, a young British woman in her twenties who is an AS self-advocate and public speaker.

Aspergirl: Do you think there's a need for more sex education in the world of AS?

Robyn Steward: "Oh yes, hugely, because sex is a social thing, and I think that often people with autism often don't have all the social information or know the difference between right and wrong in that context. You have to have understanding of why somebody might want to enter into a sexual relationship with you. For example, if they're much older it might be a control thing, or power, so understanding the issues that the other person is experiencing is important.

"People just expect us to learn how to flirt and all those kinds of things. Often people with AS don't fit into a friend circle so they don't learn about sex from their friends which is probably how neurotypical (NT; non-autistic) people learn. People with autism ideally would have an NT buddy, someone who is a life stage ahead of the AS person. For me, it might be a mum with kids, because she's done the whole dating thing, got married, etc. I need to learn about dating, how to do it safely, choose the right person. I think that having a mentor, someone you can talk to and ask questions of, is very important."

Aspergirl: What about a mentor who is on the autism spectrum?

Robyn: "I think people on the spectrum who are able to have perspective on life and understand that other people think differently to them, people with a developed theory of mind, would make awesome mentors. I mentor people but sometimes I think ‘maybe a neurotypical person would be better for my client' but I think possibly both, because only somebody with autism can really tell you what it's like."

Besides mentoring, what form should effective sex education take? The issue of how to teach sex to young people with autism spectrum disorders is very complicated. It's been a long time since high school for me, but my neurotypical daughter said the sex education films they show in school are still pretty useless. Robyn thinks that they should use actual films (not porn, she stresses) that have romantic/sex scenes in them, and then have someone explain the dynamic of what is going on. She also states a need for a manual clearly explaining the mechanics of sex to those who are of an appropriate age. I have to say I agree with that. Practical information would demystify a process which is confusing if not terrifying for us. But because we have such visual minds, we have to be careful about what we look at, for it can be stuck in our heads forever. Illustrations might be less jarring than photos, for example, but just as effective.

What about the morality side of sex? I've written in the past, that we with AS can generally have good if not exemplary moral characters, but then sometimes we don't make ‘connections' between an act and consequences. Because we can be self-centered, we may think ‘if it's good for me, then it is good'. Of course, neurotypicals do that as well, but Temple Grandin likens the autistic brain to a corporate office tower. Most of the offices can communicate with central command and with each other, but some of the offices may be cut off, isolated from the rest and operating in a vacuum. As a result, particularly when we're younger, the moral compass doesn't always point in the right direction. However, the brain is a flexible organ so eventually we do connect and learn.

Some sort of moral, behavior or ethics code is in order, and that is why it may be useful for some on the spectrum to follow organized religion or philosophy. Others, like Temple, may have a strong mother, teacher or other mentor to guide them. But regardless, having a written code of ethics, including whatever it is that you need to be reminded of, cannot go amiss.

Robyn: "I think that if you explain to young people that you do something good and it will come back to you, if you teach people with autism that value, then I think that will lead to a far greater grip on the moral compass. Somebody with autism is more likely to appreciate that doing something good to other people is going to support themselves."


To sum up, for those on the spectrum who are of dating age, for your own safety and protection:


1. Have a code of romantic and sexual ethics relevant to you and approved by someone you trust. Keep it simple and easy to follow/understand. Remember that other people may think and feel differently. This is your code for you to follow, not impose on others, but it can keep you from allowing others to take advantage of you.


2. Have a neurotypical mentor to help de-mystify the dating process, including sex. They can help you understand and identify appropriate behavior, cues, etc.


3. Have an autistic mentor who is older than you and successful in life and/or love to do the same, He or she may have relevant insights and advice a neurotypical might not.


4. Continue this dialog with others to begin the process of change in schools and autism/Asperger support networks.


For Rudy's Asperger site, visit www.help4aspergers.com and for Robyn Steward, please visit www.robynsteward.com

Rudy's jazz and comedy site: www.RudySimoneSpeakeasyJazz.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Cpt_pineapple's picture
Posts: 5486
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
Sapient wrote:Cpt_pineapple

Sapient wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Cross-referencing with wikipedia.

You drunk?

He was posting a definition from wiki.  He isn't cross referencing anything.  And it was in fact the definition.

 

I'm saying you can't diagnose an entire population based on wikipedia like what some nameless individual tried to do several years ago.

 

 

 


rpcarnell
atheist
Posts: 118
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline
Wikipedia is a reliable

Wikipedia is a reliable source of information, but the validity of its information should be questioned.

Then again, we can say the same thing about books, I am afraid.


rpcarnell
atheist
Posts: 118
Joined: 2007-05-21
User is offlineOffline

Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
Cpt_pineapple wrote:Sapient

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Sapient wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Cross-referencing with wikipedia.

You drunk?

He was posting a definition from wiki.  He isn't cross referencing anything.  And it was in fact the definition.

I'm saying you can't diagnose an entire population based on wikipedia like what some nameless individual tried to do several years ago.

Your obsession with her and those arguments is intense.  I don't understand why you tend to incorrectly portray her or those arguments when you bring them up.  She referenced the DSM to support her claims, the DSM was posted on wikipedia, and she linked it.  I don't ever recall anything about building a case from wikipedia.  Such an argument is quite an inaccurate portrayal.  

My take: you're offended or hurt that theism could be a diagnosed condition that would be treated with medication or therapy?

I think the bad ass attitude we managed to throw out to the world has worked a number on you.  You're a believer in our evilness, you think of me as capable of Hitler like acts if I had the power.  You envision me advocating padded rooms for "entire populations." You can see me strapping a theist down to a table to inject them with meds.  I gotta run... just saw a theist run past the house now.

 

 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Cpt_pineapple's picture
Posts: 5486
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
Sapient wrote:I think the

Sapient wrote:

I think the bad ass attitude we managed to throw out to the world has worked a number on you.  You're a believer in our evilness, you think of me as capable of Hitler like acts if I had the power.  You envision me advocating padded rooms for "entire populations." You can see me strapping a theist down to a table to inject them with meds.  I gotta run... just saw a theist run past the house now.

 

 

 

I suggest you also look up the definition of "Paranoid"

 

 

Sorry, I'm not willing to get in on another tangent with you. All I said that if a Christian tries to diagnos atheists with aspegers, then they're stupid.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
Cpt_pineapple wrote:I

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

I suggest you also look up the definition of "Paranoid"

 

I'll make sure not to do it on wikipedia.

 

Quote:
Sorry, I'm not willing to get in on another tangent with you. All I said that if a Christian tries to diagnos atheists with aspegers, then they're stupid.

Yeah I know, all I was saying was that you weren't comprehending the op.
 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


harleysportster
atheist
harleysportster's picture
Posts: 3310
Joined: 2010-10-17
User is offlineOffline
Sapient wrote:Cpt_pineapple

Sapient wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

I suggest you also look up the definition of "Paranoid"

 

I'll make sure not to do it on wikipedia.

 

ROFLMAO

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Cpt_pineapple's picture
Posts: 5486
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
Sapient wrote:Cpt_pineapple

Sapient wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

I suggest you also look up the definition of "Paranoid"

 

I'll make sure not to do it on wikipedia.

 
 

 

 

 

 


Recovering fund...
atheistSuperfan
Recovering fundamentalist's picture
Posts: 196
Joined: 2011-03-14
User is offlineOffline
rpcarnell wrote:I don't know

rpcarnell wrote:

I don't know if I am being irrational myself, or there's a new trend coming, and we should be aware of it.

First of all, let's define Asperger Syndrome:

Asperger's syndrome (play /ˈɑːspərɡərz/[1], /ˈæspərɡərz/[2] or /ˈaspəːdʒə(r)z/ ass-pur-jə(r)z), also known as Asperger syndrome or Asperger disorder, is an autism spectrum disorder that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests. It differs from other autism spectrum disorders by its relative preservation of linguistic and cognitive development. Although not required for diagnosis, physical clumsiness and atypical use of language are frequently reported.}

Aspergers became a distinct disease and diagnosis in 1992, when it was included in the tenth published edition of the World Health Organization’s diagnostic manual. If that's the case, how come people keep diagnosing historical figures with it? Some of these people were not religious and smart. Is it possible that in the future atheists may be diagnosed as "Aspies", as these people like to call themselves? One of the problems Aspergerians is that they can fail to understand abstract concepts, like math, even though some people like Alan Turing might have had it. How dangerous would this be? It wouldn't be the first time psychologists persecute people for being different. They have done it to homosexuals in the past.

 

 

 

 

Optimism is reality, pessimism is the fantasy that you know enough to be cynical


Sandycane
atheist
Sandycane's picture
Posts: 970
Joined: 2010-10-16
User is offlineOffline
rpcarnell wrote:I don't

rpcarnell wrote:

I don't think so either. It wouldn't be the first time that some psychiatrist tries to give a mental illness to atheists, I bet.

Asperger's Syndrome is not a "mental illness". I'm a self-diagnosed Aspie, and from what I've read on the subject, Asperger's is not curable, treatable, or preventable. People with Asperger's are offended by the accusations that they are mentally ill. The fact is, people with Asperger's just have a different way of processing information. This is not good or bad, but can be hazardous to the individual if they do not have access to good/reliable/honest information.

As stated in the copied article, people with Asperger's are, as I call it, socially retarded and do need some kind of moral compass to help guide them through social interactions. Mentors, or roll models are very important in the life of an Aspie (of which I had none) and I can see how having one would save the Aspie from making a lot of unnecessary and detrimental mistakes.

I struggled for 50 years before I learned there is a term for my "disorder" and that there is a whole flock of others who are struggling too. Somehow, being able to define the "condition" helped.

 

As to the OP, anyone who would assign "atheism" as a symptom of Asperger's is a fool, imo. In fact, given the evidence, and the fact that it is much easier for an Aspie to follow the example of others, say a religious textbook, than to wing it, I would guess that there are Very Few atheists with Asperger's Syndrome.

As a side note, I think I read somewhere that it is suspected that Einstein had Aspergers.

 

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


Sandycane
atheist
Sandycane's picture
Posts: 970
Joined: 2010-10-16
User is offlineOffline
Vastet wrote:Aspergers is

Vastet wrote:
Aspergers is just today's "poor me" pop culture bs. Yesterday it was depression and before that it was ADHD. They are all real clinical conditions, but the vast majority of the references to it that you see come not from psychologists and psychiatrists, but from unqualified media sources and self diagnosed attention seekers and/or con artists.

BS? Really?

I can tell you first hand, it is a very real condition.

If prozacdeathwish were here, I'm sure he could tell you a thing or two about depression. and would also disagree with your opiniion that it is "poor me" pop culture bs".

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


Sandycane
atheist
Sandycane's picture
Posts: 970
Joined: 2010-10-16
User is offlineOffline
rpcarnell

BOSTON—Why do we often attribute events in our lives to a higher power or supernatural force? Some psychologists believe this kind of thinking, called teleological thinking, is a by-product of social cognition. As our ancestors evolved, we developed the ability to understand one anothers’ ideas and intentions. As a result of this “theory of mind,” some experts figure, we also tend to see intention or purpose—a conscious mind—behind random or naturally occurring events. A new study presented here in a poster at the 22nd annual meeting of the Association for Psychological Science supports this idea, showing that people who may have an impaired theory of mind are less likely to think in a teleological way.

 

This is the most worthless article I've ever read in Scientific American. It used to be a good magazine... whahappened?

So, to paraphrase this article:

People with Asperger's, who are socially retarded, have managed to escape the evolution of religion? Sounds like an evolutionary step in the right direction to me.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
ProzacDeathWish's picture
Posts: 3629
Joined: 2007-12-02
User is offlineOffline
Sandycane wrote:If

Sandycane wrote:

If prozacdeathwish were here, I'm sure he could tell you a thing or two about depression. and would also disagree with your opiniion that it is "poor me" pop culture bs".

 

Actually I'm right here Sandy.   Yes, I am a veritable cornucopia of emotional illness.  Some of the solutions that I have received lately have been less than constructive though   ....some of it down-right vicious, lol.

 

                                            ( ps, just yesterday I was officially diagnosed as a sociopath by a fellow forum member.  Wow, what a surprise !  )

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10599
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Sandycane wrote:Vastet

Sandycane wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Aspergers is just today's "poor me" pop culture bs. Yesterday it was depression and before that it was ADHD. They are all real clinical conditions, but the vast majority of the references to it that you see come not from psychologists and psychiatrists, but from unqualified media sources and self diagnosed attention seekers and/or con artists.

BS? Really?

I can tell you first hand, it is a very real condition.

If prozacdeathwish were here, I'm sure he could tell you a thing or two about depression. and would also disagree with your opiniion that it is "poor me" pop culture bs".

Strawman. Try reading my whole post next time.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Luminon
SuperfanTheist
Luminon's picture
Posts: 2455
Joined: 2008-02-17
User is offlineOffline
 Wow. Just wow.A couple of

 Wow. Just wow.

A couple of days ago on another forum I asked a few questions about a type of people that I described, probably with some mental illness. I got a description back, that is the Asperger's syndrome. I read up more on it and realized something big. That's me. That's my story, often into great detail. Not everything of course, this is a spectrum, not a single problem and people have a different potential to cope with it. Among other matches it totally matched my history of social interaction, people's reactions and my adaptations. Or lack of thereof. I always knew I was weird, strange, different, special, not normal, any such name, and always had problems with it. Lots of suffering, even. I just didn't know it has a name.

Looks like I have a great luck and found myself on the highly functional, less fucked up corner of the spectrum. I have way fewer disabilities than those who fall closer to autism. I do even have aspirations of some day passing for a normal person and leading a normal life, when I'll need or want. With me it really looks like that it is a different way of processing information, not a brain damage or anything. I've got a roommate on the dorm who is... I don't really know what he is, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him diagnosed as a full-fledged autist and who knows what else. He hardly even says hello twice a day, all he does is studying and browsing the web. And occassional eating. I may be just a little strange sometimes, but he shows no signs of humanity. Hell, he isn't even capable of shutting down ligts in the room when he goes to sleep, he lies down right under glaring fluorescent tubes. That's really something. But better than the smelly epileptic guy I had on the first year.

 

There are some cerebral advantages. (for example, I'm way better at playing Portal than my younger brother) But there is also a great price. Imagine 3 million years of instincts. Fight or flight response, physical dextrity, kinaesthesia (knowing exactly where all your limbs are so you don't knock things off the table), social awareness, social interaction, non-verbal communication, desire for social interaction (checking up on people), knowing how people will react when you do this or that, instinct where and how far to take place from other people on any ocassion, desire for small talk, instinct of how often to call back friends and visit them, emotional display, ability of socializing and growing emotionally close together and many, many other marvelous abilities that our ancestors were kind to evolve for us.

Imagine all of these flushed down the toilet. No refunds. 

You probably know such people. Unusual clothes, strange, informal, second-hand, overly comfortable, unmaintained or ecologic... The people themselves seem strange, bizarre or egocentric, arrogant, (sitting aside, smug look on the face) obsessional, rigid (don't move around much), liking routine and rules. (sitting order, for example) They spend a lot of time on their unusual interests. As for their speech, it seems flat, toneless, monotone, perhaps too quiet or loud. It should be pedantically correct and precise, using complex words, longer pauses, irregular rhythm... (sounds like reading aloud from a book) They may understand some things literally, even jokes and proverbs. Fondness of headphones.

And imagine being completely unaware of this, unaware of people perceiving you like this and wondering what the hell is wrong with them, with you or with the world. 

I imagine it is natural for skeptics to be skeptical of self-diagnosing. If some Americans made a fashion out of that just to seek attention, screw them. This is not fun but a recipe for suffering. Believe me, I'm scared when I hear the "autism spectrum". But according to some psychologists, autism is just introversion taken to the extreme. Hell, my parents should have raised alarm when as a kid I was able to recite latin names of dinosaurs. That's a very reliable sign of these children, "little professors". Damn damn damn. 

Most of symptoms of course vary, some aspies excel at math, some like me suck at it, that depends on whether it becomes their special interest or not. We have two kinds of memory/attention, our special interest memory where we remember everything 10 Mbit/s, and our not-interested memory, which can hardly be called memory or attention at all. I'm lucky my special interest memory isn't wasted on things like railway schedules or camera type serial numbers.

How dangerous this disorder is? Very much so. I believe it may cause death by suicide from too much social suffering and lots of other people may die also, as bullies and innocent bystanders during school shootings. Aspergers isn't a visible mental or physical illness, those who have it often look like normal people with very bad manners. Most of kids are simple-minded. They are like sharks. And an aspie is like a wounded seal in the water. Sharks smell blood and go for the kill. Aspies feel everything, but are often unable to give a proper response. And kids will do everything to get a proper social response out of them, well-intended or badly intended. Both are likely to end up as a failure. Everything everybody does or doesn't do is wrong or useless, kids don't know what Asperger is, an aspie doesn't know what to do, how and why. Teachers and parents are also clueless and ignore the problem. Common psychologists may not even know it, it usually needs specialists.

The secret of normal people is the emotional network on which they always communicate. People are interconnected, they send and receive non-verbal signals. Everything they do is a form of communication, their body posture, their voice, the place they choose in a classroom... They have just a few simple interests, but they share them all. They are in a social network and when they get too far away, they get pulled back in. It's a wonder of nature, really, the social organism. The tribe. Well, and an aspie is very much an alien object in the social organism. And what an organism does in such a situation? The immunity cells will attack the object, causing an inflammation and breaking it down. Normal people maybe have superior empathy, but they can do away badly with those that they dehumanize. A dehumanized person isn't a person at all, it's a target, a prey or source of fun or something to ignore. 

Well, why I am telling you this? Because I had no clue whatsoever, I had to find all that the hard way. I had to become literally a xenopsychologist. Also a little of the actor's art. Asperger doesn't get better, people only sometimes learn the acting and psycho-analysing skills. Alone, of course. Aspies appear to be dispersed in population. Oh, I'd be so screwed up if I'd get into the train schedules instead of behavioristic psychology. But thinking of it, maybe it's not... such a bad....  idea.... ....Trraaaaaaainss!!! 

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


danatemporary
danatemporary's picture
Posts: 1536
Joined: 2011-01-12
User is offlineOffline
Tell us a bed time story ** Conspiracy Theories**

Recovering fundamentalist wrote:

rpcarnell wrote:

I don't know if I am being irrational myself, or there's a new trend coming, and we should be aware of it.

First of all, let's define Asperger Syndrome:

Asperger's syndrome (play /ˈɑːspərɡərz/[1], /ˈæspərɡərz/[2] or /ˈaspəːdʒə(r)z/ ass-pur-jə(r)z), also known as Asperger syndrome or Asperger disorder, is an autism spectrum disorder that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests.

Aspergerians is that they can fail to understand abstract concepts, like math, even though some people like Alan Turing might have had it. How dangerous would this be? It wouldn't be the first time psychologists persecute people for being different. They have done it to homosexuals in the past.

 

 

 

 

 

  We all need a good thorough romp through Conspiracy Land (now that is a thread)


kdrac21
Posts: 2
Joined: 2012-04-08
User is offlineOffline
these are overused, but very real!

Vastet wrote:
Aspergers is just today's "poor me" pop culture bs. Yesterday it was depression and before that it was ADHD. They are all real clinical conditions, but the vast majority of the references to it that you see come not from psychologists and psychiatrists, but from unqualified media sources and self diagnosed attention seekers and/or con artists.

 

ass burger's is funny to say, but it is quite real, i know some who legitimately have it! tho there are many who read it an think they have it, and more still will be diagnosed in lue of an actual disorder being named or by laziness.

 

depression, again, real. I have had a spot of it, tho i corrected mine myself with diet changes, some people cannot. tho this is grossly overused to explain anything pointing at odd behavior, or to abuse meds. the real condition can cause heart attacks, strokes, decreased immune system, ect. the body needs the brain, without it's guidance, any system can fail. This is hurting modern medicine as it has so many possible symptoms, it is an easy catchall for almost any other condition. I was told because of my age stroke was not a possibility, it was probably the depression i was diagnosed with 10 years prior. (i did have a non life threatening stroke that took a whole week of my life away) but generalizing is the problem here not whether it is real or not.

 

ADHD is as well legit. tho as many people that i know were diagnosed... i only know 2 that were legit (one was nearly debilitating for lack of attention to any single thing)

 


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10599
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Have I just been

Have I just been misrepresented again?

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Kapkao
atheistSuperfanBronze Member
Kapkao's picture
Posts: 4121
Joined: 2010-01-12
User is offlineOffline
Vastet wrote:Aspergers is

Vastet wrote:
Aspergers is just today's "poor me" pop culture bs. Yesterday it was depression and before that it was ADHD. They are all real clinical conditions, but the vast majority of the references to it that you see come not from psychologists and psychiatrists, but from unqualified media sources and self diagnosed attention seekers and/or con artists.

This. Of course, doctors and the diagnoses they hand out (like for ADD/ADHD in the early 90s) are not above criticism.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

rpcarnell wrote:

Aspergers became a distinct disease and diagnosis in 1992, when it was included in the tenth published edition of the World Health Organization’s diagnostic manual. If that's the case, how come people keep diagnosing historical figures with it?

The last I heard and I have no reason to think it might have changed it is unethical and unprofessional not to mention nearly impossible to diagnose a person without a first hand examination.

Why people try to get their 15 minutes of fame and make a buck off writing books is an entirely different question.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

rpcarnell wrote:

Wikipedia is a reliable source of information, but the validity of its information should be questioned.

Then again, we can say the same thing about books, I am afraid.

Do you say that about all anonymous information sources unsuited for college level work?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Sandycane wrote:

rpcarnell wrote:

I don't think so either. It wouldn't be the first time that some psychiatrist tries to give a mental illness to atheists, I bet.

Asperger's Syndrome is not a "mental illness". I'm a self-diagnosed Aspie,

That means whatever you are you are not an "aspie." But if you are willing to stake your professional reputatoin as a psychiatrist on the diagnosis, who am I do say otherwise?


 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Philosophicus
Philosophicus's picture
Posts: 362
Joined: 2009-12-16
User is offlineOffline
~~~~

How do men with Asperger's get laid?  Women with the disorder probably have less trouble geting laid because men will eventually approach them, but it seems to me that men with the disorder won't know how to go about initiating and sustaining social contact with women, and will get laid less.  So, what are they supposed to do?


Luminon
SuperfanTheist
Luminon's picture
Posts: 2455
Joined: 2008-02-17
User is offlineOffline
Philosophicus wrote:How do

Philosophicus wrote:

How do men with Asperger's get laid?  Women with the disorder probably have less trouble geting laid because men will eventually approach them, but it seems to me that men with the disorder won't know how to go about initiating and sustaining social contact with women, and will get laid less.  So, what are they supposed to do?

I suppose they need to get interested in temporary shallow relationships with women of average intelligence and inconsequential interests.

(just kidding, now seriously)

I suppose they need to visit some therapy groups, which are basically acting courses. For example, it takes effort to put some emotion and depth into the voice. When we talk, the voice is flat, without emotion. People don't like that, they feel it's talking at them, not with them. It needs some body language, eye contact, human warmth in the voice and the worst part, it's not important what to say, but how. That's to even the odds compared to normal people. As for more, I suspect many people with Aspergers get into the pickup community or at least they study materials by people like David DeAngelo, who provides courses on female and relationship psychology (manipulation). I suspect this pickup culture was founded by people like that, who had no natural instinct or success whatsoever and had to figure out everything by the scientific method. On the other hand, they're the only people who understood and formalized female logic, which is something that even women don't understand. (they just feel it)

But I think the worst obstacle is the lack of interest. Not interest in women, but in mainstream cultural life. Aspies tend to have vastly different notions of what a fun is. Social ocassions may be even mildly interesting at times, but people there keep things nice & easy, there are no deep, controversial and intellectual topics. I think normal people are community-oriented, they gather together for the sake of gathering together. Aspies need some greater common purpose to gather, like charity volunteering, game developer conference, science presentation, or excuse me, ComicCon. Of course it usually ends up as a sausage fest, because surprisingly women with Aspergers are much more interested (and motivated) in figuring out the mysteries of social relationships, while men are focused on natural and material things, like sciences or technologies.

 

Btw, I really recommend this excellent article on another terrible personality disorder, the Neurotypical syndrome Smiling

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


blacklight915
blacklight915's picture
Posts: 544
Joined: 2011-12-23
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Do you

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Do you say that about all anonymous information sources unsuited for college level work?

Only for the ones about Jews I'm sure.

Wikipedia is a good place to begin research on a topic. The references located at the bottom can be used to verify the information and are sometimes suitable for college level work.

In addition, have you forgotten this:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Are you majoring in Phys Ed? What college is ripping you off by not providing you the education you are paying for? Legitimacy is independent of source. Send me three credit hours in small bills.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

That means whatever you are you are not an "aspie." But if you are willing to stake your professional reputatoin as a psychiatrist on the diagnosis, who am I do say otherwise?

One does not have to be a psychiatrist to self-diagnose (though it may be required for an accurate self-diagnosis).

 


Watcher
atheist
Posts: 2326
Joined: 2007-07-10
User is offlineOffline
Philosophicus wrote:How do

Philosophicus wrote:

How do men with Asperger's get laid?  Women with the disorder probably have less trouble geting laid because men will eventually approach them, but it seems to me that men with the disorder won't know how to go about initiating and sustaining social contact with women, and will get laid less.  So, what are they supposed to do?

Aspergers is just a generalized term for people on one end of the autism spectrum.

I have a nephew who is mildly autistic and another who is severely autistic.

I suspect I'm somewhat autistic but very lightly so if at all.  It would certainly explain some of my quirks, and well, it runs in the family.

I'm fine on social relationships, never had a problem finding close friends.  But I find parties are often boring.  I even found the college keggers boring.  I'd rather be alone with that keg in my own home.

So lots of people who are technically Asperger's don't even realize it.  And seem to lead fulfilling lives including families.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


Luminon
SuperfanTheist
Luminon's picture
Posts: 2455
Joined: 2008-02-17
User is offlineOffline
Yep, Asperger syndrome comes

Yep, Asperger syndrome comes in various degrees, often almost unnoticeable. And people learn to compensate for it with maturity and experience. Sometimes it is nothing more than just a several bad adolescent years. 

I suppose people who never find out they've got AS will not use it as an excuse and will work hard to get on with life. Or better said, they won't give up the effort even though there is no medical cure for AS. 

I suspect it has to do with introversion, autism is just an extreme end of introversion. And there's 30-50% introverts in the population. Yes, it involves neurologic differences, or at least different use of the brain. 

 

 

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.