Why is the Bible Silent about Pedophiles?

Marty Hamrick
atheist
Marty Hamrick's picture
Posts: 227
Joined: 2010-12-31
User is offlineOffline
Why is the Bible Silent about Pedophiles?

You would think with all the sexual hangups and bugaboos about sex that the Christian community gets upset over, that pedophilia would have a whole chapter in the Bible dedicated to it. If you hate homosexuality, you can find plenty of scriptures to support your view. Premarital sex, adultery and homosexuality get a few pages, along with prescriptions on when and where sex could and could not take place. Yet the Bible is deafeningly silent on the subject of pedophilia. I suppose the mandate against all homosexuality could be applied here in the case of homophile child molestation, and the mandates against premarital sex could cover heterosexual pedophilia, but what about places where the age of consent is around 12? If a 50 year old pedophile can find a legal way to marry his 12 year old bride, is this hunky dorey with god?

If you look at the Bible and read about the people the Bible speaks of, marrying children and giving children to be married off was common. The average age of a bride probably was around 12 to 14 back in biblical times, so it would stand to reason pedophilia wouldn't be mentioned as it would disqualify most of the marriage pool. That said, does god have an age of consent in mind for marriage? Are the Mormons really sinning when they take plural, young wives if such practices were common among ancient, religious people, many of whom were God's favoured people?

My question is, if there's no explicit mandate against pedophilia, what do Christians use as a moral criteria dealing with pedophilia?     

"Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings."


BobSpence
High Level DonorRational VIP!ScientistWebsite Admin
BobSpence's picture
Posts: 5880
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
I am inclined to think that,

I am inclined to think that, somewhat as with women, children are essentially considered property, in this case of their parents.

So pedophilia is really only a property crime, at most. Probably covered by some edict about not misusing your neighbours property.

Probably requires them to pay the parents a shekel or two in compensation.

 

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


harleysportster
atheist
harleysportster's picture
Posts: 3312
Joined: 2010-10-17
User is offlineOffline
The Ten Commandments

The Ten Commandments do not mention rape, child molestors, spousal abuse, child neglect and endangerment, or disregard for the welfare of others.

There are only three commandments that apply to our laws today, theft, murder and perjury, all of which pre-date christianity.

The old testament is full of slave trading, incest and all sorts of other wonderful moral fables which are suitable for reading to little children at bedtime.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


Lion IRC
Theist
Lion IRC's picture
Posts: 158
Joined: 2011-03-16
User is offlineOffline
Adultery

Adultery is in the 10 Commandments.

Adultery is not age dependent.

 

Premise – That pedophilia involves sexual attraction (yes)
Premise – That pedophilia is immoral/evil. (yes)
Premise – That the bible condemns sexual immorality as evil. (yes. Chapter and Verse avail on request.)


Conclusion – Pedophilia is under biblical condemnation.

 


BobSpence
High Level DonorRational VIP!ScientistWebsite Admin
BobSpence's picture
Posts: 5880
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Lion IRC wrote:Adultery is

Lion IRC wrote:

Adultery is in the 10 Commandments.

Adultery is not age dependent.

Premise – That pedophilia involves sexual attraction (yes)
Premise – That pedophilia is immoral/evil. (yes)
Premise – That the bible condemns sexual immorality as evil. (yes. Chapter and Verse avail on request.)


Conclusion – Pedophilia is under biblical condemnation.

Pedophilia does not involve adultery.

You haven't shown where the Bible says pedophilia is immoral.

Immorality is condemned, of course, virtually by definition, it does not need to be qualified by category.

Pedophilia is considered immoral by most people in contemporary Western Societies, whether religious or not.

The question is, does the Bible condemn consenting sexual activity between non-married people, with or without some age-restrictions?

Your argument as given proves nothing.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


ex-minister
atheistHigh Level ModeratorSilver Member
ex-minister's picture
Posts: 1708
Joined: 2010-01-29
User is offlineOffline
The Bible - A mans world

 It's a mans world and nowhere is that more true than in the Bible. There are no stories of child rape or abuse in the bible or rules against such. The stories of the Exodus and the subsequent take over of Canaan by genocide allow the keeping of young girls who had not slept with a man. I don't think they had a concept of child rape back then. Adultery was more about property value loss.  If you put a ring on it it was yours. Have read that there is some place in the Talmud where marriage to a a girl as young as 3 year old was permitted and it is sealed with intercourse. But haven't confirmed it.

You can find bible text regarding not abusing animals, but not small children, and yet how odd since we are the ones with souls apparently.

Spare the rod and spoil the child. (proverbs 13:24)

 

These 2 text below are the few that a christian would try to use to indicate our better morals today were in the bible. They always say morals are worse now than before. I guess only repeating it makes it so. 

Ephesians 6:4 instructs fathers not to make their children angry, but discipline them in the Lord.

Jesus says let the little children come to him. (matt 19:14)

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


Scout
Theist
Posts: 14
Joined: 2011-10-17
User is offlineOffline
Christians often reply to

Christians often reply to this challenge with Luke 17:2 -

It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.

 


BobSpence
High Level DonorRational VIP!ScientistWebsite Admin
BobSpence's picture
Posts: 5880
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Scout wrote:Christians often

Scout wrote:

Christians often reply to this challenge with Luke 17:2 -

It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.

I can see why they might use that. It isn't specific about what the 'sin' is, and pedophilia should not be considered a 'sin' on the part of the child, but they may well argue it is, from the totally f**ked-up viewpoint of Christian 'morality', with its obsession with the evils of any form of sex outside marriage and even then only for the purpose of procreation.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


ex-minister
atheistHigh Level ModeratorSilver Member
ex-minister's picture
Posts: 1708
Joined: 2010-01-29
User is offlineOffline
Context

Scout wrote:

Christians often reply to this challenge with Luke 17:2 -

It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.

 

 

I looked at that one before my post above and did some background checking on it. Context is talking about grown adults who are "little ones" in the faith. Newbies, if you will.

 

Luke 17:1-4 wrote:

Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. So watch yourselves.

“If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.”

So those that use it are again doing something typical,  using a text the way they want to see it and not as it actually is. 

A victim is not doing the sinning. 

 

Also, I like how the last verse says keep letting the bastard abuse you over and over and over. I get very bored with that pattern and cut that person out of my life.

An additional issue is I can cause someone else to sin. Beside holding a gun to their head how do I do that?

It has a lot to do with mind control perpetrated by Jesus with even thinking something you have sinned. So, I can tell an off color joke and this "little one" will go play with himself because I put lust in his brain. Christianity has such an over-inflated ego and the power they can weld over others. Pretty sick thinking and why they feel such a need to control everything and everybody. The whole Chaz Bono controversy on Dancing With The Stars was hilarious. If a kid sees that he is going to want to change his sex. RIIIGGGGHHHTTTT.

 

 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10688
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
The bible is silent in part

The bible is silent in part because there was no indication that anything was wrong with it. Also because the bible decried sex in general, with the only valid use for sex being procreation, which obviously can't happen with an adult and a child.
So in a sense it did deal with it. I'll give it that much. It just did so by repressing sexuality in general, which is unhealthy.

Then there's the smart ass answer, which is that priests are paedophiles, and since the creators of the religion were priests....

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Marty Hamrick
atheist
Marty Hamrick's picture
Posts: 227
Joined: 2010-12-31
User is offlineOffline
BobSpence wrote:I am

BobSpence wrote:

I am inclined to think that, somewhat as with women, children are essentially considered property, in this case of their parents.

So pedophilia is really only a property crime, at most. Probably covered by some edict about not misusing your neighbours property.

Probably requires them to pay the parents a shekel or two in compensation.

 

 

Good point. In many middle eastern countries, children are often sold for sexual favours to wealthier tribes. I saw an interesting documentary on the dancing boys of Afghanistan.

"Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings."


Marty Hamrick
atheist
Marty Hamrick's picture
Posts: 227
Joined: 2010-12-31
User is offlineOffline
 That's the Catholic

Quote:

and then for procreation only

 That's the Catholic version. Most protestant sects view sex as a sacred expression of love symbolic of Christ's relationship with the church. They see anything outside of marriage as an act of profaning what they believe is sacred. This actually made the Puritans the "swinging liberals" of their day in that they loudly opposed the RC church's doctrine of procreation only. This is why you'll find Protestant churches more liberal with the use of birth control within marriage.

"Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings."


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10688
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Which came first? Or did

Which came first? Or did they coincide? Or is it unknown?

I've never been interested in pursuing research into cults beyond what I have already, so there's plenty of minutiae I'm unaware of.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Marty Hamrick
atheist
Marty Hamrick's picture
Posts: 227
Joined: 2010-12-31
User is offlineOffline
Vastet wrote:Which came

Vastet wrote:
Which came first? Or did they coincide? Or is it unknown? I've never been interested in pursuing research into cults beyond what I have already, so there's plenty of minutiae I'm unaware of.

 

Catholicism was first. The modified sex morality happened during the Reformation.

"Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings."


Jack_Glass_1903
atheist
Jack_Glass_1903's picture
Posts: 28
Joined: 2011-10-26
User is offlineOffline
harleysportster wrote:The

harleysportster wrote:

The Ten Commandments do not mention rape, child molestors, spousal abuse, child neglect and endangerment, or disregard for the welfare of others.

There are only three commandments that apply to our laws today, theft, murder and perjury, all of which pre-date christianity.

The old testament is full of slave trading, incest and all sorts of other wonderful moral fables which are suitable for reading to little children at bedtime.

I guess this further supports the fact we have evolved our own sense of morality, no thanks to the bible or god. It's a major problem if god has not mentioned child abuse in his holy book of do's & dont's. A big oversight.

Scotland The Brave


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10688
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
If the deviation was with

If the deviation was with the protestants, then my devils advocate defence is still technically accurate. Sticking out tongue

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Jack_Glass_1903
atheist
Jack_Glass_1903's picture
Posts: 28
Joined: 2011-10-26
User is offlineOffline
What was the average age of

What was the average age of consent back in biblical times?

Did not the Romans have a bit of a thing for young boys n girls and if so no wonder they omit it.

Scotland The Brave


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 855
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
You're thinking

that they had the laws of these times. Their laws don't fit for today. In Roman etal it apparently "wasn't" against their laws. In Egypt it was. I have no idea what was going on in China (or that region) at that time. But, for the Isrealites ---they probably didn't have the problem, but it would be covered under the laws of adultery. You're looking at ancient times through the eye of the US of A. Consent in Israel was a thing understood , not regulated. In any place on the planet something isn't wrong until a government says so. Perception of morals can be different from place to place or time to time. What is immoral today can be made moral tomorrow.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers


redneF
atheistRational VIP!
redneF's picture
Posts: 1971
Joined: 2011-01-04
User is offlineOffline
Luke 17:1-4

Luke 17:1-4 wrote:

 

“If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.”

The whole meme of Christianity is patently stupid.

In the end, sin ain't no big deal.

The supposed Boss of the Universe's supposed son said so.

That's the rumour.

That's what these Baby Jesus sichophants are all bent about.

 

Everybody should just wear a T shirt that says "I repent".

 

Problem fixed.

 

 

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


EXC
atheist
EXC's picture
Posts: 3140
Joined: 2008-01-17
User is offlineOffline
Marty Hamrick wrote:Why is

Marty Hamrick wrote:

Why is the Bible Silent about Pedophiles?     

 

Maybe because God was one. He defiled a young virgin of about 12 or 13.

Actually in the bible, just about any immoral or illegal act you can think of was done by God or was ordered to be done by God. And our morality should come from the bible????

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10688
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
redneF wrote:Everybody

redneF wrote:
Everybody should just wear a T shirt that says "I repent".
Problem fixed.

So very well put, I chuckled.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


ex-minister
atheistHigh Level ModeratorSilver Member
ex-minister's picture
Posts: 1708
Joined: 2010-01-29
User is offlineOffline
Vastet wrote:redneF

Vastet wrote:
redneF wrote:
Everybody should just wear a T shirt that says "I repent". Problem fixed.
So very well put, I chuckled.

 

Would the truly repentant have a T-Shirt that reads "I am a piece of shit, O Lord. I truly repent"? They would get to sit on Jesus' right hand away from those left-handers.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/