More on my obsession [title made by mod]

A_Nony_Mouse
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More on my obsession [title made by mod]

For what it is worth I have started converting my expose of the of OT as a creation of Egyptian Alexandria in the 2nd c. BC, aka the invention of recognizable Judaism, as a series of web pages at www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

I cannot predict the rate at which I will incorporate everything I have been saying into these pages.

FWIW I encourage the most virulent attacks possible as I have answers for everything and the most obnoxious the objection the higher the priority of creating a response.

So please feel free. I do want to read something which is new and to which I do not have an answer.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Tapey
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I am going to read over what

I am going to read over what you wrote tomorrow, cannot garentee I will have anything to say about it though.

 

But in the mean time before I leave, I did a little internet stalking (creepy I know sorry) and I have to ask, is this refering to you? Or is the name at the bottom of the pages on your site just one big coincedence?

[mod edit: link removed]

Tapey, if you're going to cast aspersions on character, you should be sure of yourself before you do. If you honestly don't know if it's referring to him, then you should not post it as if it might be.

If you have specific accusations, make them specifically, and refer to primary sources, not secondary ones.

I have PM'd the link to Nony, and he can respond as he likes or not.

-- natural

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


A_Nony_Mouse
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Tapey wrote:
...

I have PM'd the link to Nony, and he can respond as he likes or not.

-- natural

The software does not permit me to read PMs.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
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Obsession? perhaps but ...

It is also potentially the most significant advance in atheism in centuries. It is the antagonism from those who claim to be atheists which should be remarked upon.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Tapey
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Natural wrote:Tapey, if

Natural wrote:

Tapey, if you're going to cast aspersions on character, you should be sure of yourself before you do. If you honestly don't know if it's referring to him, then you should not post it as if it might be.

If you have specific accusations, make them specifically, and refer to primary sources, not secondary ones.

I have PM'd the link to Nony, and he can respond as he likes or not.

-- natural

Hey I was not accusing him of anything, I was asking if someone else was. Maybe he is not aware of the page? Maybe by bringing it to his attention I am giving him a chance to defend himself, get the page taken down? He has no special access on this site so I couldn't just pm him. I considering the worst it accused him of was being a troll and not whiling to put money behind his views I did not think it was that big a deal especially because it was refering to some  stuff in 1996. But whatever not a big deal.

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


Brian37
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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:For what

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

For what it is worth I have started converting my expose of the of OT as a creation of Egyptian Alexandria in the 2nd c. BC, aka the invention of recognizable Judaism, as a series of web pages at www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

I cannot predict the rate at which I will incorporate everything I have been saying into these pages.

FWIW I encourage the most virulent attacks possible as I have answers for everything and the most obnoxious the objection the higher the priority of creating a response.

So please feel free. I do want to read something which is new and to which I do not have an answer.

Hey if you look hard enough in the OT, it tells you where Hoffa is buried.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


A_Nony_Mouse
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Brian37 wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

For what it is worth I have started converting my expose of the of OT as a creation of Egyptian Alexandria in the 2nd c. BC, aka the invention of recognizable Judaism, as a series of web pages at www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

I cannot predict the rate at which I will incorporate everything I have been saying into these pages.

FWIW I encourage the most virulent attacks possible as I have answers for everything and the most obnoxious the objection the higher the priority of creating a response.

So please feel free. I do want to read something which is new and to which I do not have an answer.

Hey if you look hard enough in the OT, it tells you where Hoffa is buried.

Perhaps but as we know for a fact it could not possibly have been written in bibleland by the people of bibleland it is reasonable to explore where and by whom it was written. Or are you incurious about the origins of all religions?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Brian37
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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Brian37

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

For what it is worth I have started converting my expose of the of OT as a creation of Egyptian Alexandria in the 2nd c. BC, aka the invention of recognizable Judaism, as a series of web pages at www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

I cannot predict the rate at which I will incorporate everything I have been saying into these pages.

FWIW I encourage the most virulent attacks possible as I have answers for everything and the most obnoxious the objection the higher the priority of creating a response.

So please feel free. I do want to read something which is new and to which I do not have an answer.

Hey if you look hard enough in the OT, it tells you where Hoffa is buried.

Perhaps but as we know for a fact it could not possibly have been written in bibleland by the people of bibleland it is reasonable to explore where and by whom it was written. Or are you incurious about the origins of all religions?

 

Oh boy, look, all religions came from prior cultures. Go back far enough in history and you'll end up in French caves. I suggest you stop dwelling in the past like most people, and deal with today and the future.

If you look hard enough you'll find the third man on the grassy knoll too.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


A_Nony_Mouse
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Brian37 wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
For what it is worth I have started converting my expose of the of OT as a creation of Egyptian Alexandria in the 2nd c. BC, aka the invention of recognizable Judaism, as a series of web pages at www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

I cannot predict the rate at which I will incorporate everything I have been saying into these pages.

FWIW I encourage the most virulent attacks possible as I have answers for everything and the most obnoxious the objection the higher the priority of creating a response.

So please feel free. I do want to read something which is new and to which I do not have an answer.

Hey if you look hard enough in the OT, it tells you where Hoffa is buried.

Perhaps but as we know for a fact it could not possibly have been written in bibleland by the people of bibleland it is reasonable to explore where and by whom it was written. Or are you incurious about the origins of all religions?

Oh boy, look, all religions came from prior cultures. Go back far enough in history and you'll end up in French caves. I suggest you stop dwelling in the past like most people, and deal with today and the future.

If you look hard enough you'll find the third man on the grassy knoll too.

It is loosely based upon the Yahweh/Ashara religion of region. This is well known. Ashara goes back at least to Ishtar and Yahweh at least to a mention in Ugarit. But that is not the subject.

The subject is who wrote the books of the OLD TESTAMENT and thereby INVENTED the Yahweh cult. That the OT dates to AFTER the most "recent" book was supposedly written and cannot have originated in the land of the people who came to be its (short term) practitioners is the subject.

I do not know how to make it clearer than that but I will try if you still do not grasp it.

It is technically incorrect to call a cult a religion.

 

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Tapey
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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Brian37

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
For what it is worth I have started converting my expose of the of OT as a creation of Egyptian Alexandria in the 2nd c. BC, aka the invention of recognizable Judaism, as a series of web pages at www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

I cannot predict the rate at which I will incorporate everything I have been saying into these pages.

FWIW I encourage the most virulent attacks possible as I have answers for everything and the most obnoxious the objection the higher the priority of creating a response.

So please feel free. I do want to read something which is new and to which I do not have an answer.

Hey if you look hard enough in the OT, it tells you where Hoffa is buried.

Perhaps but as we know for a fact it could not possibly have been written in bibleland by the people of bibleland it is reasonable to explore where and by whom it was written. Or are you incurious about the origins of all religions?

Oh boy, look, all religions came from prior cultures. Go back far enough in history and you'll end up in French caves. I suggest you stop dwelling in the past like most people, and deal with today and the future.

If you look hard enough you'll find the third man on the grassy knoll too.

It is loosely based upon the Yahweh/Ashara religion of region. This is well known. Ashara goes back at least to Ishtar and Yahweh at least to a mention in Ugarit. But that is not the subject.

The subject is who wrote the books of the OLD TESTAMENT and thereby INVENTED the Yahweh cult. That the OT dates to AFTER the most "recent" book was supposedly written and cannot have originated in the land of the people who came to be its (short term) practitioners is the subject.

I do not know how to make it clearer than that but I will try if you still do not grasp it.

It is technically incorrect to call a cult a religion.

 

 

I read it and It is interesting, sadly my knowledge in this area is zero. So I cannot make a meaningful comment You may be right, I wouldn't be suprised. I am curious for you what is the difference between in a cult and a religion. What standards are you using? I assume you mean that judaism is a cult by saying the Yahweh cult.

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


Matt
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I am new here, and I am not

I am new here, and I am not a bible historian by any means, but I would suggest supporting quotations from bible scholars, historians, etc., complimented by a bibliography.  With supporting details that can be verified, your essay would be much more concrete.  If a serious rebuttal were written by a theist, it most certainly would include supporting facts from published works, and your work itself would not be able to contend on a professional level.  Without supporting opinions from recognized authors, you will fall short I believe.

 

If I am mistaken and there is a bibliography, I apologize I didn't notice it.

 

The thesis of your essay and the conclusion you will draw is fascinating.


A_Nony_Mouse
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cult as a subset of religion

Tapey wrote:
I read it and It is interesting, sadly my knowledge in this area is zero. So I cannot make a meaningful comment You may be right, I wouldn't be suprised. I am curious for you what is the difference between in a cult and a religion. What standards are you using? I assume you mean that judaism is a cult by saying the Yahweh cult.

The problem with a definition is there is no agreed clear difference between the two. This is not because there is no clear difference but rather that the differing perspectives of people on the spectrum between religion and cult. Clearly a person who thinks religion is a social thing to do on Christmas and Easter has a religion. Equally clearly the folks at the Branch compound in Waco comprised a cult following David Koresh. Between those extremes does a monk have a religion or is he a member of a cult?

Because of the current non-judgemental PC attitude towards whose opinion is correct the media usage usually only applies to groups with a charismatic and preferably dead beyond the ability to sue to call a group a cult. Before Scientology successfully blackmailed the IRS and became a recognized religion is was a cult long after Hubbard was dead and he was never charismatic.

Two things mark a cult. The rules of the cult govern every aspect of life and the cult sticks to itself avoiding outside contact as much as possible. For evaluation look to the Torah not the Reform movement that is barely a century and a half old. It prescribes rituals and taboos which govern nearly every aspect of daily life. There is an official tally of the number of rules because it is easy to find more than 360. Among the rules are the important ones against the common forms of socializing with others not just not marrying but not eating or drinking with them. The members are described as special, chosen, for better or worse but chosen.

This is not to say every member was a strict adherent. In fact the draconian punishments for damn near every violation of the rituals and taboos shows only it was imposed by force upon those who did not choose to be members. Note current day cults also physically punish violators.

Reform is not a cult. The Orthodox do not recognize the Reform as Jews either.

Anyone with a better idea please chime in.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
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Matt wrote:
I am new here, and I am not a bible historian by any means, but I would suggest supporting quotations from bible scholars, historians, etc., complimented by a bibliography.  With supporting details that can be verified, your essay would be much more concrete.  If a serious rebuttal were written by a theist, it most certainly would include supporting facts from published works, and your work itself would not be able to contend on a professional level.  Without supporting opinions from recognized authors, you will fall short I believe.

If I am mistaken and there is a bibliography, I apologize I didn't notice it.

The thesis of your essay and the conclusion you will draw is fascinating.

In this matter I have little interest in the professional level as I have read much of their material.

Take for example my statement, we know for a fact it could not have been written in bibleland by biblelanders. I say this because I cannot find any evidence of a literate culture in bibleland which could have created it. I have tracked down every reference to such a culture I can find. Not a single one of them presents evidence of it. But professionals ramble on about it, at time to book length, without even once admitting there is no evidence.

How about an entire book on the scribal culture of ancient Israel which is "described", in reality fabricated, by analogy to what we know of cultures where it did exist. I just went through a paper about the style of the language used in the OT books which almost literally promised to produce contemporary non-biblical material to make its case. Not a single word was presented when entire paragraphs were a minimum to make the case in the title. And just to show it was not to academic for me, there was not a single reference or footnote suggesting such paragraphs existed.

Citing academic opinion is only for demonstrating it is biased towards those who pay the bills.

If you are interested in an unorganized view of some of the intended contents look to the top articles in the upper right column of my website www.giwersworld.org . Note those articles are dated and change is the only constant in this.

You will see the basis for my assertion that the Maccabe "revolt" was merely a proxy war between the Seleucid and Ptolemy empires. It was not anti-Greek in the least. It was between which Greek side to choose. The Maccabe side is the Ptolemys, the Greek rulers of Egypt.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Brian37
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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Brian37

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
For what it is worth I have started converting my expose of the of OT as a creation of Egyptian Alexandria in the 2nd c. BC, aka the invention of recognizable Judaism, as a series of web pages at www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

I cannot predict the rate at which I will incorporate everything I have been saying into these pages.

FWIW I encourage the most virulent attacks possible as I have answers for everything and the most obnoxious the objection the higher the priority of creating a response.

So please feel free. I do want to read something which is new and to which I do not have an answer.

Hey if you look hard enough in the OT, it tells you where Hoffa is buried.

Perhaps but as we know for a fact it could not possibly have been written in bibleland by the people of bibleland it is reasonable to explore where and by whom it was written. Or are you incurious about the origins of all religions?

Oh boy, look, all religions came from prior cultures. Go back far enough in history and you'll end up in French caves. I suggest you stop dwelling in the past like most people, and deal with today and the future.

If you look hard enough you'll find the third man on the grassy knoll too.

It is loosely based upon the Yahweh/Ashara religion of region. This is well known. Ashara goes back at least to Ishtar and Yahweh at least to a mention in Ugarit. But that is not the subject.

The subject is who wrote the books of the OLD TESTAMENT and thereby INVENTED the Yahweh cult. That the OT dates to AFTER the most "recent" book was supposedly written and cannot have originated in the land of the people who came to be its (short term) practitioners is the subject.

I do not know how to make it clearer than that but I will try if you still do not grasp it.

It is technically incorrect to call a cult a religion.

 

 

All religions are cults. They only get called religion when they get big numbers. And as far as this history lesson, most of us, including me, already know this. Still has nothing to do with your stupidly backing nuts who would not give rights to minorities,

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Matt
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I see your point in not

I see your point in not referencing outside sources within your work.  Who would the intended audience be for your essay?  Or is it a work designed to be universally recieved?


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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Tapey

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Tapey wrote:
...

I have PM'd the link to Nony, and he can respond as he likes or not.

-- natural

The software does not permit me to read PMs.

 

Strange, the settings I can see say that you can. Hmm. Probably that's just an override for cancelling PM ability for those who already have it.

My apologies, I thought you could. Chalk it up to me being a fairly new mod. I sent an email instead just now.

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Tapey wrote: Natural wrote:

Tapey wrote:

Natural wrote:

Tapey, if you're going to cast aspersions on character, you should be sure of yourself before you do. If you honestly don't know if it's referring to him, then you should not post it as if it might be.

If you have specific accusations, make them specifically, and refer to primary sources, not secondary ones.

I have PM'd the link to Nony, and he can respond as he likes or not.

-- natural

Hey I was not accusing him of anything, I was asking if someone else was. Maybe he is not aware of the page? Maybe by bringing it to his attention I am giving him a chance to defend himself, get the page taken down? He has no special access on this site so I couldn't just pm him. I considering the worst it accused him of was being a troll and not whiling to put money behind his views I did not think it was that big a deal especially because it was refering to some  stuff in 1996. But whatever not a big deal.

My apologies for not being clearer. I did not intend my mod edit to be considered an official or unofficial warning, although I now see that it probably appeared that way.

You are correct, it's not a terribly big deal. For me it's more a matter of principles and ethics, of giving people a level playing field, and not spreading potentially unreliable rumours around (intentionally or not). I know you didn't mean any harm, so don't worry about that. I just made a discretionary mod edit, and was trying to explain why I did.

My main point to you was that you are free to post specific details from the primary sources into this thread (e.g. by quoting, and then linking to show where you got the quote from), and I would not object to that. My objection was based on posting a link to a site where Nony has no power to post his own rebuttals to those accusations made there. He has that power here, so it's fair to post them here (if they are from primary source, not just rumours). But to simply post a link to a collection of accusations? To me, that's rumour mongering. And I'm sick of rumour mongering, no matter if it's intentional or not. That's the reason I removed the link and sent it to Nony.

Again, I would have no objection if you post information here from a primary source. But that requires you to personally vet that information yourself and decide for yourself what you think is probably legit or probably not. When you personally go through this process, you are in essence taking responsibility for what you post in this thread. If you end up posting false claims and allegations (rumours), then that is something you will have to personally own up to.

But if you just post a link to a bunch of claims, you are essentially avoiding responsibility for those claims. "Hey, I don't know if they're true. I just heard them from somebody (who heard them from somebody, etc.)" That's rumour-mongering, and IMHO, it is unethical and I will object to it.

Please note: I have not read any of the claims made on that page against someone (who you can't even confirm is Nony). I only scanned the linked-to page, then went to the root domain to see what the organization was, and saw immediately that it could not be considered an un-biased source of information in any discussion about Nony (or whoever it is they are accusing).

Therefore, I am not saying that the claims are true or not. I am saying that the fact that you don't know if they are true or not, and only post a link to a secondary source, is not a legitimate move in rational discourse, IMHO.

Again, you are free to post specific claims from specific sources, if you think they are legitimate points to raise or questions to ask. But you must make that judgment yourself, not just link to some website somewhere.

Does this help make it more clear where I'm coming from?

And again: This is neither an official nor unofficial mod warning. It is a discretionary mod edit by me personally. I will post a thread in the mod forum to get feedback from other mods on whether I made a mistake or not.

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A_Nony_Mouse
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The Maccabean Revolt was really a Greek proxy War

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/wars-of-proxy.html

What is surprising is the existence of descriptions of it as other than a proxy war.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Brian37 wrote:
All religions are cults. They only get called religion when they get big numbers. And as far as this history lesson, most of us, including me, already know this. Still has nothing to do with your stupidly backing nuts who would not give rights to minorities,

If all religions are cults then it is also true that all religions are religions and all cults are cults which are null statements.

As to your nonsense about minorities, it is inconceivable you have missed by condemnation of those who refuse to recognize the human and civil rights of Palestinians.

That which is given is not a right. That which is given can be taken away. Rights cannot be given. Rights can only be recognized or denied.

Your lack of understanding of a subject you misrepresent is unacceptable.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


jcgadfly
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 "those who refuse

 "those who refuse to recognize the human and civil rights of Palestinians."

You mean like yourself?

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Tapey
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natural wrote:My apologies

natural wrote:

My apologies for not being clearer. I did not intend my mod edit to be considered an official or unofficial warning, although I now see that it probably appeared that way.

You are correct, it's not a terribly big deal. For me it's more a matter of principles and ethics, of giving people a level playing field, and not spreading potentially unreliable rumours around (intentionally or not). I know you didn't mean any harm, so don't worry about that. I just made a discretionary mod edit, and was trying to explain why I did.

My main point to you was that you are free to post specific details from the primary sources into this thread (e.g. by quoting, and then linking to show where you got the quote from), and I would not object to that. My objection was based on posting a link to a site where Nony has no power to post his own rebuttals to those accusations made there. He has that power here, so it's fair to post them here (if they are from primary source, not just rumours). But to simply post a link to a collection of accusations? To me, that's rumour mongering. And I'm sick of rumour mongering, no matter if it's intentional or not. That's the reason I removed the link and sent it to Nony.

Again, I would have no objection if you post information here from a primary source. But that requires you to personally vet that information yourself and decide for yourself what you think is probably legit or probably not. When you personally go through this process, you are in essence taking responsibility for what you post in this thread. If you end up posting false claims and allegations (rumours), then that is something you will have to personally own up to.

But if you just post a link to a bunch of claims, you are essentially avoiding responsibility for those claims. "Hey, I don't know if they're true. I just heard them from somebody (who heard them from somebody, etc.)" That's rumour-mongering, and IMHO, it is unethical and I will object to it.

Please note: I have not read any of the claims made on that page against someone (who you can't even confirm is Nony). I only scanned the linked-to page, then went to the root domain to see what the organization was, and saw immediately that it could not be considered an un-biased source of information in any discussion about Nony (or whoever it is they are accusing).

Therefore, I am not saying that the claims are true or not. I am saying that the fact that you don't know if they are true or not, and only post a link to a secondary source, is not a legitimate move in rational discourse, IMHO.

Again, you are free to post specific claims from specific sources, if you think they are legitimate points to raise or questions to ask. But you must make that judgment yourself, not just link to some website somewhere.

Does this help make it more clear where I'm coming from?

And again: This is neither an official nor unofficial mod warning. It is a discretionary mod edit by me personally. I will post a thread in the mod forum to get feedback from other mods on whether I made a mistake or not.

As I said not a big deal. I understand why. I don't feel the need to argue about it.

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


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 Yeah not a big deal.  Did

 Yeah not a big deal.  Did we ever find out if he knows about the link?

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Matt wrote:
I see your point in not referencing outside sources within your work.  Who would the intended audience be for your essay?  Or is it a work designed to be universally recieved?

I am not targeting any audience. I am trying to keep it along the lines of a scientific paper by merely presenting the facts without an interest in what people make of them. In other articles I have found I can keep it neutral by simply invoking an atheist non-interest when it comes to places where value judgements appear unavoidable.

Of course I would like to avoid them entirely.  As we have seen here, it allows the closet believers to launch into personal attacks to avoid addressing the issue.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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natural wrote:
My main point to you was that you are free to post specific details from the primary sources into this thread (e.g. by quoting, and then linking to show where you got the quote from), and I would not object to that. My objection was based on posting a link to a site where Nony has no power to post his own rebuttals to those accusations made there. He has that power here, so it's fair to post them here (if they are from primary source, not just rumours). But to simply post a link to a collection of accusations? To me, that's rumour mongering. And I'm sick of rumour mongering, no matter if it's intentional or not. That's the reason I removed the link and sent it to Nony.

The material on that website is such an obvious collection of forgeries it is difficult to believe an honest person of innocent intent could possibly take them seriously.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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jcgadfly wrote:

 "those who refuse to recognize the human and civil rights of Palestinians."

You mean like yourself?

I'm rubber and you're glue should not leave the kindergarten schoolyard.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Two

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Two things mark a cult. The rules of the cult govern every aspect of life and the cult sticks to itself avoiding outside contact as much as possible. For evaluation look to the Torah not the Reform movement that is barely a century and a half old. It prescribes rituals and taboos which govern nearly every aspect of daily life. There is an official tally of the number of rules because it is easy to find more than 360. Among the rules are the important ones against the common forms of socializing with others not just not marrying but not eating or drinking with them. The members are described as special, chosen, for better or worse but chosen.

One of the worst cults in history, Aum Shinrikyo, does not fit your definition of a cult. Cult members remained part of outside society. They just had really fucked up beliefs.

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natural wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Two things mark a cult. The rules of the cult govern every aspect of life and the cult sticks to itself avoiding outside contact as much as possible. For evaluation look to the Torah not the Reform movement that is barely a century and a half old. It prescribes rituals and taboos which govern nearly every aspect of daily life. There is an official tally of the number of rules because it is easy to find more than 360. Among the rules are the important ones against the common forms of socializing with others not just not marrying but not eating or drinking with them. The members are described as special, chosen, for better or worse but chosen.

One of the worst cults in history, Aum Shinrikyo, does not fit your definition of a cult. Cult members remained part of outside society. They just had really fucked up beliefs.

For the moment I can live with a definition that has but one apparent exception and then in only one aspect.

In this case I could add the brain-washing techniques such as everyone hates us. That goes back to at least the 1st c. AD and was based upon people refusing to believe the most absurd claims made by Judeans. Literally, people refuse to believe our nonsense solely because they hate us. www.giwersworld.org/ancient-history/hate-jews.phtml

The 'we are hated' nonsense extends to the claim there was anti-semitism in the US when in fact Jews experienced nothing different from any other wave of new immigrants. Because of their religion? Catholics had the same problem making Jews no different from the Irish and Italians.

I could also go into the psychological pressure that forces atheists and at times even christian converts to declare they are still Jews despite all rhyme or reason but that would be cheating.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
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significant updates

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/israel-exaggerated.html shooting down the exaggerated cop out

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/septuagint-original.html presently little more than a working outline

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/appear-in-history.html when Judeans appear in history

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/plague-10.html showing how modern context makes things look different

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/monotheism.html Origin of monotheism

 

Additionally a set of zip files of the works of Josephus. They are all from Project Gutenberg. This is just if you are interested it saves you a bit of searching.

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml