Students in New York occupy Wall Street
In the heart of global finances there is a civil unrest of people, who demand justice and social security. People do not want to suffer anymore because of greed, corruption and selfishness, which are the base of the current economic system.
At the beginning of September, a group of young people gathered in New York through the Internet and social media. They decided to show their disagreement with the current situation of majority of USA citizens. They chose Wall Street as the place of their protest, because the majority of crises and problems of contemporary world originate there. They have had enough of the incessant worsening of social, economic and financial affairs of vast majority of Americans, while the real culprits among bankers and corporations are rewared for their mistakes. They do not hide their inspirations by similar actions in Spain or Egypt. They want to continue in protest actions, until they achieve change of this system. For the saturday of 17.9. they organized the protest gathering, right at the heart of the financial world, the Wall Street. Several thousand people arrived, mostly young and students. Although the police prevented them from marching in front of the main stock market buildings, their protest was heard far. One of the action's goals was for some of them to stop this financial machine, which is the source of corruption, poverty, greed and does not bring anything good to the common people. As one of the participants said, they also want to talk about the problems from where they originate, because the contemporary market system must be humanized.
They want an economic system, where people will decide for people and not rich for the rich.
People of various opinions and from various groups gathered at the demonstration, but also the common people, who are not content with the current crisis and its solution. We can just quote some slogans on the transparents:
"We want to disturb war, not peace"
"Stop dealing with our future"
"People, not profit" "New Yorkers say enough to the greed of Wall Street“ "Wall Street is our street" "Give people work, not war!" "Can't afford a lobbyist - I'm one of 99% of the people" They plan the protest as long-termed occupation of the area and they also call on other cities to join them. And really, some other cities underwent similar actions. For example, in Boston people entered a branch of Bank of America and demanded, that the bank must return what received from the people through the state, start investing into the economy and stop cancelling job positions. In New York meanwhile the protests continue the third day already. Hundreds of tired demonstrants sleep on sidewalks and in parks. During the day, the numbers of protesters grow to several thousand.Together with the thought of public protests, there is spontaneously organized New York general assembly, where people discuss about what they want and how to achieve it. It is an open, horizontally organized plattform, where people together want to become a force, that will counteract the current crises. To achieve that, mere thoughts are not enough. This is why they learn there how to lead a collective discussions, how to communicate with media, how to arrange a legal support for the actions, etc.
The protesters estabilished their HQ in a nearby park, which was renamed on the Freedom park. The organizers succesfully use the Internet since the beginning and they provide regular news on their website https://occupywallst.org, including videoreports, general assembly meeting notes, people's suggestions, and also calls for further actions and links to allied websites. Sympathies of people from all the America and other countries show in such a way, that when they asked for food provision, the local pizzeria was just in a hour flooded with orders from all the continent and Europe. People readily give their raincoats or blankets, to help in the protest. The procession goes every day into the surrounding streets and is joined by many bystanders, so it often returns several times bigger than it started. In comments to one of the videos from protest action there are mostly opinions of agreement. One cogent opinion says: "The history proves, that when students start to demonstrate peacefully and they have the right, WE all start too... that's close to the revolution, change. We need these young people to get us started! They are our future and they want their rights... What's wrong about that?" ************************************* My comment: I found surprisingly few news about this. None in the media, very little on the Google. Weird. I hope this is not hoax. I really did not expect this kind of thing, so soon and in the heart of financial axis of evil. The text is my hasty translation from Czech website prichod.cz (means arrival) which watches and reports on signs of hope and change in the world. So please, you who live nearby, can you tell me something more about this? I want the people's voice grow stronger and stop Wall Street's systematic misuse of money, stop all worldwide financial speculation and stock market trade with resources. This looks like a significant step towards it. Remember, sharing will save the world. In other words, the resource-based economy, not the current global resource market, controlled by a handful of rich people.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
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RedneF, I agree that Brian seems to be on glue.
He seems to like to quote people only to launch into his agenda without addressing the material which he quoted.
On the other stuff, it is not only business people who get paid on a bonus. Go to your local mall. The guy who sells you a $20 pair of pants for $70 may be getting a straight $12 bucks an hour. But try buying some of the other stuff.
The guy who will sell you luggage, a cell phone or an ipad is probably looking at minimum plus a percentage of the cash. Hence the reason why those of us in the know have to come in hard and strong on such matters or get cash hosed.
The price of everything is what the market will bear. I am between jobs right now. However, I build my own computers and lots of people know that I do. If I am asked, the deal is that I charge way less than most places right now because I have no choice. I am the cheapest way to get a computer fixed and I take payment in cash. If people don't check with other sources, well, that is really not my problem so much as my opportunity. Fuck them, I like cash.
Capitalism is working well for me.
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It is impossible that there are more scam artist rich than poor, simply because there are thousands of times as many poor as there are rich. Even if every rich person in America is a scam artist, it only takes a few thousand poor scam artists to outnumber them. Any city with a population above 1M could easily have enough poor scam artists to outnumber the rich scam artists of the nation.
The difference is the effect on society at large. A welfare bum only gets a tiny amount of the tax ledger, which is an insignificant strain on the government.
Whereas a rich scam artist can affect tens of thousands of employees directly, cost the government significant tax losses, and cause far more damage to the society at large.
It'd take at least a thousand welfare bums to cause a similar amount of damage as one rich scam artist. That's why the rich scam artists are a bigger problem.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
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@ Kap
The guillotine IS nearby. This global demonstration is evidence. You ironically cite the SUCCESSFUL protests of the 60's (and I presume you include the 70's) as evidence against, when it is actually evidence FOR. The government listened, the protests ended.
It can still be fixed, but if it isn't, the people WILL rise up. The rich WILL be slaghtered (save the couple smart ones who join the revolt). Their property WILL be seized.
All it's going to take is hunger and one inspirational voice. That's all it's ever taken.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
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There are certain sectors that hardly notice a 'bump' no matter what the markets. Funeral homes, for example. I'm another example.
Another part of the problem.
Who gives a shit about what affects others as long as I am not affected. Sounds nice, but just like a VD , you may not realize you've been fucked, or realize how many people you have fucked, until it is too late.
A head in the sand is the same as a head up your own ass.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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Brian37 wrote:No, there is a difference between "what the markets will bare " and "what the cheats will manipulate and convince others that it is "what the market will bear"That's not even germane to what I was talking about. Do you really not have a fucking clue about what I explained, or are you just being obtuse?
Let me dumb it down some more, and see if it will actually register this time. I responded by explaining shifting markets to your lecturing me about improper 'expectations' :
"Stop expecting the middle class and poor to accept less and do more for less."
Perhaps you're unaware that most white collar professionals don't get paid 'by the hour'. They get paid a 'salary' per year.
Perhaps you're unaware that some professionals get paid a 'base salary' + 'bonuses'.
Perhaps you're unaware that some businesses have to 'lower their prices' in order to maintain market share or patronage.
In all of these instances, these 'classes' of people understand that there are times they can not only get less for the same effort, but can at times work harder than before and get less, because of shifting markets, or what the market will bear.
IOW, suck it up, Buttercup, life isn't always fair, and 'business' is no exception.
Brian37 wrote:I think the Wall Street protesters are getting wise to the propaganda.That's not germane to anything I've said.
Brian37 wrote:You can sell shit as ice cream for only so long.So how come there are so many people who have shit for brains?
Brian37 wrote:So now that the "market" is bitching, then you shouldn't bitch yourself.Duhhh... where did I bitch about the 'market's bitching'?
You really don't have a clue do you? There's no better time for individuals who have money and great credit than times like these. They can not only buy things for pennies on the dollar with their money (like I did with that mint Porsche), but they can loan money leveraged against assets to borrowers for interest rates that they could never get from any bank because the banks won't loan money to borrowers.
As for me, I'm in aerospace level Industrial Engineering with almost unlimited flexibility in where I can find my next 'contract', or develop a technology or system that I can sell or license.
Brian37 wrote:Or is it that the market only works when you win?There are certain sectors that hardly notice a 'bump' no matter what the markets. Funeral homes, for example. I'm another example.
Brian37 wrote:Your problem is that you want to treat an entire economy like a checkbookAre you on glue? Where the fuck did you get that from anything I said? Because of preemptives?
Brian37 wrote:And you also want to blame the other two classes for the scam the top perpetuates to create the ponzy scheme bubbles the rest of us have paid for over the past 30 years.Ok, you really are on glue.
I never assigned any 'blame' anywhere. I just pointed out the fallacies in your assertions.
Brian37 wrote:IT IS NOT JUST what the market will bare.Who claimed that the whole problem going on in America is about what the market will bear?
Strawman much?
Brian37 wrote:Monopolies do not constitute a free market.Who claimed that monopolies constitute a free market?
Brian37 wrote:And as long as one class is dogmatic and selfish as any other religionWas that supposed to make sense?
You really are off your fucking nut...
Are you referring to me in your diatribe of a class that's 'dogmatic and selfish'? Coz, that's fucking funny.
Let me explain what you term as 'dogmatic' is what I call an 'axiom'.
"Buy low, sell high" is an axiom in business. Your stupid mischaracterization of a logically sound strategy as a 'dogma' really only illustrates that you really don't have anything intelligent to debate, so instead you'll just foam at the mouth with rhetoric and vitriol.
As far as 'selfish'.... you do understand that it's 'subjective', don't you?
Brian37 wrote:"what the market will bare" is as meaningless as nipples on men.If that's your firm position about an important reality in business, I can confidently predict that you'll never be successful in life.
Thanks for laughs. This is better than HBO...
Thanks for the abundant projectionism and narcissism.
You define "success" as title and paycheck. Which is why you will always have your head up your ass. And which is what gives you the ability to look down on those financially below you. Your ignorance in accepting that life is as much luck as it is choices. Your inability to know that there are far more people who supported you, whom without, you wouldn't be where you are at.
Act like a snob and I will treat you like the snob you are.
NOW if the market were "baring" what you claim, then why are so many bitching? Maybe because those peasants below you are getting tired of the inequity?
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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There you said it.
The right is so fucking stupid in making claims that taxes are all bad. They make the false claim of "robbery" when they themselves have been doing it all along.
If we had a truly free market and not a rigged extraction market, and we had investment here, the rich would get more of what they want, less regulation and less government, because less people would be turning to government.
Do more for your workers, not less. Stop expecting the middle class and poor to accept less and do more for less. Competition should build and provide, it should not starve people with the current pay gap it is causing.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
But you can order high taxation as mandatory and enforce it ruthlessly? Isn't the tea party just rebelling in the same way?
That's what I love about you socialists, you're very selective about what behaviors are greedy and selfish. How can we have a social contract if one group is greedy about the number of children they can have while the other group is supposed to be generous about giving up their money to support the welfare state? Hardly sounds like a harmonous society.
But you can go to wall street and demand more from them. If they give you the finger, is that going to stop you?
The problem with demanding more from the rich is they have resources to hide their wealth. What can the poor do besides give you the finger? They don't have an army.
I thought machines could take care of the elderly. Or having the unemployed take care of the elderly.
Why not the same approch in paying for social services. Get people to pay them voluntarily. Why a ruthless approach to tax collection, and then a voluntary approach to family planning?
Why not RBE living laboratory? Isn't that the scientific method? If you had a drug that could cure AIDS, one should devise clinical trials. Experimentation on a small scale to indentify the benefits and side effects. Then publish your results for peer review. Once your claims have been verified, skeptics like myself would come on board and push from national then global implementation.
Isn't the real reason why this is not done is because it's really snake oil? There is nothing substantially different than the hippie communes which failed miserably. All these leftist programs are really just scams to get something for nothing? It's another ponzi scheme like social security?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
I forgot, the Hoover Dam was an individual and made for an individual. I don't hear you demanding that social project be torn down. I guess that was my imagination that it was built by tax payer money.
I am sick of people like you falsely trying to use socialism as a slur pretending we want a government run economy.
NO.
You're just pissed that the middle and poor class are tired of being thrown crumbs by the goons who pay of our congress to allow them to do it.
A SCAM is getting the tax payers, not to build something needed like a road or a bridge or a fire house. A scam is when you get tax payers to build an NFL stadium and still have to pay for it AFTER it gets turned into a parking lot.
A SCAM is when GE not only pays NO taxes but cuts jobs.
The real "socialists" are those at the top who pay off government to rig the deck in their favor.
There are LOTS of things I pay taxes for too. Just because I make less doesn't make my voice or my vote worth less.
You're just pissed that the rest of us are getting wise to the scams perpetrated by the top.
Maybe if you'd care more than yourself we wouldn't be on your ass.
There IS socialism, but it is at the top, it is not at the middle or the bottom. Corporate welfare is socialism. Privatized profits and socialized losses.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Economics should be treated like evolution. Not some people's idea of what they think evolution is.
Economics is not MIGHT MAKES RIGHT, otherwise there would be no need for a class system. There would be no need for voting if only the rich could vote.
Evolution is a range it is not all genes(choices). It is also luck and environment.
Perfect example. Just heard about a poor 19 year old who died while driving her car. She made all the right choices. She had her seat belt on. She had the right of way and a green light when she tried to make a turn, and an ambulance hit her and totally crushed her car and killed her. So even with all those good choices, she still died because of actions beyond her control.
EVERY "revolution" in human history is about resources. And every animal WILL take what they need if push comes to shove, not just humans. To think we are above that is stupid, and to forget that is immoral. We are not above nature simply because we have big brains.
NOW, those at the top want to call it robbery. It would be if they were not allowed to vote themselves the past 30 years. They have been voting for 30 years and gotten everything they wanted. And what has been the result? Wages not keeping up with the cost of living while profits explode, increasing pay gap.
So, now that the middle and poor are going to use the same voting booth to try something different, they call it robbery.
My vote counts too and I am not going to allow any idiot to call me a thief after the tax payers cleaned up their mess.
GO FUCK YOURSELF
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Die miserable spammer!
Die miserable spammer!
The Wall Street protesters are finally getting the attention they have been seeking, it seems. Eric Cantor, the No. 2 Republican in the House, denounced the Occupy Wall Street protests Friday as "mobs," and Michael Bloomberg, the mayor of New York, charged demonstrators with "trying to take away the jobs of people working in this city."
Cantor, the House majority leader and a Republican from Virginia, told a gathering of conservative activists in Washington that he's "increasingly concerned" by the "growing mobs" at the protests, which have spread to Los Angeles, Boston, Washington D.C., and other cities after starting several weeks ago on Wall Street.
Democrats are beginning to express support for the demonstrations, and Paul Krugman, the influential liberal columnist, suggests they could be the start of something big.The protesters have resisted issuing specific demands, but they have expressed anger at growing inequality and at the distorting influence of money--particularly money from the financial industry--on the political system.
Cantor's expression of alarm was echoed by Bloomberg. "You can't have it both ways," the mayor said during a radio appearance. "If you want jobs you have to assist companies and give them confidence to go and hire people."
Bloomberg spent most of his life as a Democrat, but he ran for mayor in 2001 as a Republican and has since become an independent. The founder of a media company focused on the financial industry, he has generally been a reliable backer of Wall Street.
"The protests that are trying to destroy the jobs of working people in this city aren't productive," Bloomberg said.
But a growing number of Democrats is embracing the protests as a grassroots uprising against the big banks and their political supporters.
"God bless them for their spontaneity." Nancy Pelosi, the House minority leader and a Democrat from California, said of the demonstrators.
The House's No. 4 Democrat, John Larson of Connecticut, went further. "The silent masses aren't so silent anymore," Larson said earlier this week. "They are fighting to give voice to the struggles that everyday Americans are going through. While I don't condone their every action, I applaud their standing up for what they believe in."
And Krugman, a New York Times columnist and key liberal opinion-shaper, wrote Friday that "we may, at long last, be seeing the rise of a popular movement that, unlike the Tea Party, is angry at the right people."
President Obama has been cautiously positive about the Occupy events. "The protesters are giving voice to a more broad-based frustration about how our financial system works," he said during a Thursday press conference.
Source http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/eric-cantor-says-wall-street-protesters-mobs-democrats-191017569.html
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
You see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Yes, we can have a social contract. But in the current social contract there is no clause about limiting the population. This is why that must be introduced to people in such a way, that they will agree to that willingly and so the social contract will be updated.
There is also nothing in the social contract about bankers and brokers controlling the world, this is why there is the people's revolt on Wall Street. If I have a good idea, I don't want it to fail because I make people angry due to sloppy marketing and public relations.
Seriously, the social contract is clear, it was pronounced aloud by these folks on Wall Street, in their so-called "one-point" program. This is supposed to be adopted by the power of state and applied on the people. This is what the state is supposed to do. If it doesn't, it does not behave democratically and is no better than dictatorship. Then there's sooner or later a lot of rioting and nobody regrets when people like Mubarak or Kaddafi are gone. The same thing may happen with some rich people or owners of corporations, if they keep resisting the people's will.
But family planning, that's something different, it's getting too near people's private parts to feel safe. You may not realize that, but for the most part it doesn't even apply on us. For example, the original population of Europe declines, people choose career over children, so they limit themselves voluntarily. We do our own family planning non-officially. But there are ethnic groups that don't. And that requires a careful and inventive approach. We don't want them to cause problems, because they feel victimized by the white mugs. Ideally, if these people feel so ethnic, they should choose their own tribal leaders, imams or whatever. And these will be "offered" cooperation with authorities to enforce strict birth rules in their community. If not, take their social welfare away and offer them work, if they don't want to work, take their children away. That's just one of many possible solutions and certainly not the best one. But force sometimes must be used, specially against bad gypsies. You wouldn't believe what do they get away with in my state. Must be gypsy magic, they must have snatched a handful of government minister's hair and cursed him :P
RBE was already successfully applied during WW2, as military economy. Methods of RBE are used in industry, for example, steelworks keep track of their wares on railway and shipping through satellite tracking and the internet, it's all there in real time, right on the map. It's designed to work.
We have the technologies and the plans to put them together. RBE is pretty much about designing an efficient city (this is why it's circular) with its own power sources, built-in transport, housing, hydroponic farms, waste recyclation, water desalinization, cultural and recreational areas, and so on. It's like when architects design a normal city, only much better and all new, not outdated makeshift patchwork like the current design. I don't know what's controversial about it. Do you? Tell me. But yes, everyone in the Venus project want to build an exemplary self-sustainable city. I hope to find more rumors about United Nations contacting Jacque Fresco.
If you're concerned about hippie communities... does it have to do anything with RBE? Share your doubts with me, just make them specific.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
Zeepheus: Wonderful, media and politicians finally notice something. The grain will be separated from the chaff and people will see who's friend or foe. Who's expressing support and who's spouting meaningless accusative phrases. I don't want to be biblical or anything, but the effects of people proverbially turning against each other is, that good people become more good and bad people more bad. That way anything can happen, which couldn't in environment of status quo, where everyone's keeping low profile.
Kind of reminds me of storm, it's when masses of hot humid and cold air collide, there's this rain, lightning, thunder and ozone. Nothing would happen without contrasts, in homogenous environment.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
Get on www.theyoungturks.com, their reporting in the first hour of the show is fantastic on this. Send me a private message for member login, I will create a new paid account for people who want to check it out without commercials & stuff. I am doing this to advertize an absolutely incredibly insightful group of people who break the political situation down and serve it to you on a silver platter.
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.
You mean, you'll make a single account for several interested people? I'm not sure I'd use all of it, I live in Czech Republic and most of people I know have no use for English materials. But I have a friend in Prague who might be interested.
To EXC: You should watch Jacque Fresco's film Future By Design. Most of it is about his design and technology. But Fresco also studied sociology of human and animal behavior. In the last third there's something about behavior, crime, religions, gods, superstition and so on. If you are concerned about cities of the future being inhabited by hippies, couch potatoes, communists and brainwashed folks, watch it.
Wearing a rabbit foot? Just remember, the rabbit had four of them, didn't do him any good...
Fresco speaks against having opinions, beliefs and so on. All he does, including social engineering, is based on facts, findings. Either we have findings, or we don't know and we admit that, so we can start searching. Among engineers, there are no opinions. There are readings on measuring devices.
Now, the kind of folks that is against the Venus project aren't only Washington lobbyists (Fresco's popular everywhere but America) but also the crazy kooks with NWO and 2012 conspiracies and other bullshit. They compare RBE to communism and have their websites full of phrases like "you can look no further than Marx and Engels' Capital to see the similarity" and other superficial judgements. Every paragraph is full of fallacies and contradictions. How can Fresco be inspired by Madame Blavatsky (who inspired Hitler!) and the words of Ascended Master, when he's an outspoken non-religious naturalist? How can there be a rule of elite, when Fresco talks about assigning all decision-making to electronics? (which we already do when buying meat at butcher shop, how much to pay) Looks like these kooks will not hurry to pollute the genetic and memetic pool of the circular city.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
Hippie communes huh? Did the hippie communes declare all the worlds resources the common heritage of all manking, then do a global survey of our resources, then implement an open system (codes etc... viewable by all mankind) real time global resource tracking system, tehn declare all inventions/innovations/improvements the common heritage of all mankind instantly viewably by all indepth in the computer programm (NO MORE PATENTS OR HOARDING TECHNOLOGY), then abort the monetary system, then bring the greatest minds together and shift all efforts towards sustaining the population at a high standard of living for all efficiently while using state of the art technology including automated robotic systems for farming, recycling, construction, transportaion, energy collection, etc... then design entire cities around the most efficient way to do this while slowly recycleing the old ones, while bringing the greatest minds in robotics together to replace 90% of the future grunt work with efficient robots allowing people more time to work on advancing the standards of living for all, drop military efforts/planned obsolesence/marketing all this non-sense, then successfully advance the philosophies of the general population to understanding that we can sustain ourselves in abundance if our focus is in the right direction and to not fear technolgy "replacing jobs", then raise generation after generation after generation in such a society untill scarcity is something only talked about in history class. Did the hippie communes do this, haha??? Apparently to you an apple in an orange, no, an apple is a gorilla.
Clearly you have no idea what an RBE entails.
I second that the young turks are great, no bullshit reporting and always fun.
Oh yes, I know. The right to breed is just so private and personal, it's everyone's individual choice. But then when it comes to paying for the offspring, then suddenly we change to being on big family where paying for the children is a public matter. How convenient, you can have your cake and eat it too and then send me the bill for for these fucking 'private' choices.
Then where is the living laboratory to demonstrate this? The reason there is no laboratory is that it would quickly collapse.
There is no mechanism to force people to work hard and be productive if they don't want to be, so you'll get a handful of lazy people and then one bad apple ruins the barrel. Everyone sees you can get by being lazy so they all do.
Also you are committing the ignoring a common cause and reversing cause and effect fallacies when it comes to the correlation between poverty and high birth rates. You claim that when people no longer have to worry about having more children they will stop having more kids????
The desire to not be poor causes people to not have a large family. Look at how many people decide to focus on their career, hobbies and then never have kids. Poor families have many children because this is their culture. They learned from their parents to endure and get by with little. Women start having babies at a young age, they don't think about poverty because this is their culture. Culture and genetics is the cause of both high birth rates and poverty.
I actually think there are some good ideas here, but their has to be mandatory family planning, mandatory work and mandatory job training.
Exponential population growth can be simulated on a computer as well. This is what you always get when there is lack of scarcity.
OK. So it's nerds instead of hippies. But, the same dynamics are in play.
Any animal is only going to be as active as it needs to be to survive and reproduce. If being lazy and unproductive pays off, this is what people will do, why work, innovate and waist your energy on production if there is no advantage?
We have a biological imperative to reproduce, scarcity is how population growth is limited. So you can't have a 'scarcity free society' and uncontrolled reproduction.
It seems for this to work, you need to re-engineer basic human biology to something other than eating, consuming, fucking and birthing. What technology does this? You need a technology game changer.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Or you can just get high on drugs all day, not work, study just enough to impress chicks, fuck and expect everyone else to take care of your 'private' choices. There is no mechanism to prevent this from happening is there? Who the fuck is going to work their ass off to build this technology to see some dude that just bangs the drums all day reap the same benefits?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
PLEASE STOP watching Fucked News.
The middle class and poor are NOT lazy. The only one lazy is you in your attitude.
Just like science, life is neither all luck or all choices, but a combo of both. Economies can and do affect people beyond their own personal choices. Just like you can obey traffic laws and speed limits and wear your seat belt and STILL get hit by another car.
Addressing the pay gap, stagnant wages, and lack of jobs, does not make one lazy. Get your head out of your ass.
This problem was caused by the top, not the middle and not the poor. Pointing that out does not make people lazy.
You are not going to get away with blaming others for the mess the top caused.
If you are scared that we outnumber you, you should be. The top started a war on the middle class and poor and it is a war they will not win.
Every time you go out now, when you eat out, or go to the store, you look in the faces of the waitress, the trash collector, the teacher, the busboy, you look at them, take a good long look, WE outnumber you.
Now, I'll give you choice like a bratty child. You can either, start caring, or you can deal with our reaction. What you will not get away with is more of the same. What you will not get away with is the lie that we are lazy.
THIS IS OUR government, not just yours. We have done it your way for the past 30 years and our country is totally fucked up as a result. You are out of your fucking mind If you think the rest of us are going to put up with your bullshit.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
A) They are gypsies and they receive social welfare for each child they squeeze out. That allows them to live a lazy life and hold the white mugs in deep contempt.
B) They are religious folks and every sperm is sacred.
With the A possibility, there's no help but firmness and force, create them a big friendly farming settlement with a tough chieftain, if they feel so ethnic. No more free cookies for their spoilt tribal culture. As for B, just don't build a church in circular city
Anyway, women will be happy to pursue hobbies and have fun just like anyone else, it's not like they want to have dozen plus kids just for nothing. That's a part of why the demographic revolution works its magic.
That is the psychologic incentive of the so-called socially-cultural class of people. Historically, they were called middle class, merchant/artisan class or vaishyas. This class or caste of people is today in vast majority. We know what they want and why they do things. They want material security (but not too much so their friends won't envy them), success, prestige and popularity among friends. They are afraid of being out of fashion or worse, outcasts. They vary from petty townies to great organizers of business, social, cultural and charitable events. They are us, (well, most of us) the class that defines the mainstream culture.
The class below them is not as numerous and it's called a biologic class. They are the simple, naturally selfish, often poor (even though some academically educated people also live like that). They have different wants, needs and fears than the middle class. But these are simplier and their ultimate purpose is to master their daily disciplines and integrate into the middle class. In this case it would be possible to use some outright force and mandatory procedures, because these people admire, approve and obey crude power, because they want it themselves and would not hesitate to use it. (unlike the middle class, which would be horrified at the idea) Of course, they would see all the time that the middle class has nothing mandatory. They just... like to work, everyone works, who doesn't work, is a weirdo and not a friend, right? They call the middle class a crab bucket, other crabs pull you down when you're climbing out of the bucket to freedom. Little they know, that the same crab bucket also pulls people up into the civilized society.
There are actually two more classes of people, but they are more self-sufficient and very rare. You get the idea, there are various classes of people and outright force gets you only this far. These classes will be always with us, they are not economic models, but aspects of our culture or humanity itself. They were in ancient India, in medieval Europe, today and probably will be with us in the future. It is important to act according to what kind of mass mentality you're dealing with, otherwise it won't work. And that sort of thing can not be computerized. There must be people like me, who understand people and enjoy looking under the society's skirts.
Scarcity is a big problem on it's own, it makes extreme environment and that keeps our primitive urges strong, which leads to overpopulation, violence, crime, despair and drug abuse. We must live in comfort, soften out, get civilized and keep our brains busy. That will put our animal self to deep sleep.
If you don't believe me, read it from the master psychologist himself, Abraham Maslow. I bought and read this short study
Hierarchy of Needs: A Theory of Human Motivation
on my Kindle for just 3 bucks and it would answer your doubts. Of course, not everyone is capable of ascending equally high in the hierarchy of needs, most of people stop at some point biologic or socially-cultural, this is how people divide into the four classes.
You might very possibly be one of the biologic class. This has nothing to do with wealth or education, (that mostly depends on where you get born) but with one's inner motivation. Your motives are obviously very close to fundamentals of living and you keep labelling people with the same motives, because that's how you see the world. Which isn't precise, they may easily have other motives, you just don't share their ambitions and idealism. In which case the best I can achieve is to explain to you that there are cultural things you currently can not understand and appreciate. As long as you know that and don't invent false explanations, you can live in peace with others. I am not universal either, I totally don't get watching sports and mainstream culture, but I know these things really work for many other people and I won't deny it.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
Oh yes I'm really on to believe in magic. I don't believe so, it's not our biological imperative. And what do you do outlaw religion that tells people to 'be fruitful'?
We take the path of least resistance. So if not being productive pays off which is what a volutary work system would do.
Unfortunately work can't be fun because we live in a competitive world, thanks to our biological imperative. Work can't be fun because there's too many rats in the cage.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
I'm sorry but this is just fucking non-sense. You say their is no "mechanism to prevent lazyness," how about the mechanism that it is socially unacceptable in such an advanced society? In such a society you would be frowned upon if you were not contributing something even if it was your gift of painting. In such a society the opposite sex would not find you attractive or see you as any kind of viable partner in anyway sexual or relationship wise. In such a society people would do many things they are interested in instead of having to focus on making money, they could focus at being great at what they love. I see this as greatly increasing the productivity of man, not decreasing it. How about the mechanism that people are driven to "do things." The vast majoirty of people are driven to do all kinds of things, it is in our nature. Sure their will be a couple complete loosers here and their, their will always be a few loosers in the bunch, we have loosers now and they take our time and resources aswell. Are you saying we should not attempt to improve society because a few "bums" will still exist? That sounds incedibly lame, would you allow a few bad apples to spoil your progress? LAME!!!
"Who the fuck is going to build this technology" You say. WHO? Who is building it now? Are the scientist working tirelessly around the world gaining financially the most from their work? NO! It the the financers, investors and coorporations behind the work that take it and SELL SELL SELL! The scientist continue their work because they are compelled to do so, compelled to advance our species, it is an insult to all these people for you to say they would simply cease their work because either A)-they won't get "rich" or B)-a lazy person might benefit from their work, truly insulting it really is.
In the first line of your reply you show that you don't understand atall what an RBE would become. You say "do drugs all day, don't work, and study just enough to get chicks." Do you see your own non-sense? Doing drugs all day, not contrubuting to a system that takes care of the people, and faking interest in gaining knowledge would get you absolutely no-where with the women in such a society. They would look at you like a cro-magnun cave man idiot who was not worth their breath. In such a society you would be free to be a loser, as you are in the current system, except in such a society it would be even less socially acceptable as the contribution of all is part of the philosophy taught from birth.
In general I find the old "a few bad apples" argument pathetic, it is a copout of epic porportion, you are allowing the bad apples to hinder progress, and that is what is pathetic. Their will always be a few bad apples, you are saying "fuckit!!! can't try to make things better cause jhonny might be lazy." FUCK JHONNY, the rest of us will move on past him and he will either be left behind or forced to catch up, got it. Jhonny pathetic existence will be his own punishment, and these types are the overwhealming minority.
Poor attitude in general, the same stinky attitude I get from many people first wrapping their head around an RBE. "Lazy poeple/everyone would steal everything/people would fight for the best real estate" this is all non-sense, these arguments don't hold any water and only show a complete misunderstanding of what an RBE is.
The RBE debate boils down to one thing. It is not if it is possible, it is if WE can do it. A hypotheical RBE is surely possible, it is wether or not we are capable of reaching it and successfully making the transition over to it over the next few centuries, are we...mature enough. Life in outer space may have already reached such a society. A society that can house, feed, and transport all equally and with no effort with advanced technology and societal structure. So when I am asked the question "do you believe it is possible for us to mature to such a society" I am inclined to say yes, but that is not the most reasonable conclusion for me. The most reasonable conclusion is that the question is irrellevant, whether we are capable or not doesn't matter we must try regardless to honor ourselves. So whether we fail or succeed in bettering our world is irrellevant, only the fact that we try is. Our world is doomed the way it is going, the way we consume and compete, no intelligent man could say otherwise. Got a better Idea?
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How about, instead of talking mandatory birth control, we just cut way back on paying people to fuck like rabbits on the public dime? You have as many kids as you want but you have to pay for them.
Seriously, I have met welfare sluts, so that much is no myth. One I recall had five daughters and she was trying for a son.
Then too, there is the RC every sperm is sacred crowd. One of my brother's supervisors is in that crowd. He makes over USD $150,000 a year. Every time he gives the wife the pork sword, she has to have a baby. The whole damn family pulls in more every month in food stamps than I have ever made in any single month of my life.
Of course, the poor are going to scream that their reproductive freedom is being infringed upon. Well, so fucking what. If I need to make some concession on that front, then this is it. First you must qualify for food stamps in the first place. If you are already on them apart from kids, then one child per couple. After that, you are on your own.
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NO the reason the poor have so many kids is because the right wing in this country sell a utopia mantra that having kids and getting married is the only goal in life. I don' t think in any case humans should lose their compassion for the poor.
If our country were more educated you would see that birth rate go down.
Don't blame the poor. I am tired of that shit. You starve anyone out of a living they WILL do what they have to to survive.
The key is for the cost of living, and pay gap to be less lopsided. The key is to make education affordable or FREE AND efficient.
We don't need more trade schools. We need better DEEP education. We need to have a nation full of people who knows who our second president was. We need a nation full of people who knows what DNA is. We need a nation that can read Plato and Socrates, EVEN IF those remain at the bottom.
If even the poorest of the poor were that educated they could not be taken advantage of so easily. The wouldn't buy into utopia scripts. They wouldn't need to be on the government dime. They would be better able to hang together to stand up for a more equitable economy.
The rich don't want to educate the poor. They want the poor to stay poor so that they can have cheap labor. You look at nations that don't have our pay gap, their poor are far more educated and nowhere near exploited, and have less crime and better education rates and less unwanted pregnancies.
But you will NOT get America to do what China is doing. And even if it is practical, it goes against human nature. Humans do not like force. And this would just be a form of class fascism.
This would simply amount to money equals power and might makes right. I find no compassion or morality in that at all.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I too have met welfare sluts. Last one I knew had 6 kids with 4 fathers and constantly made an effort to get more kids. Even by trying to seduce me and two friends (but I'm not the least bit sexually interested in such a person, so drama resulted).
They do exist, and many of them exist because they know that the state will reward them. They are told as much by others who do it, then they try it and find it's true. It's so prevalent that removing the clauses in the tax code and restricting welfare access would put many women out of home during the transition while the public acclimatised to the change.
Don't get me wrong, the religious and the state of education do have an impact, but that doesn't preclude people from knowingly manipulating the system for their benefit.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Look, my boss fucked me over after all my loyalty and it was nothing but a power trip. DAMNED right if I need food stamps or unemployment I will take advantage of it.
He could afford me and he DID NOT have to cut my hours. FUCK HIM.
If people like him didn't want me on food stamps or unemployment he shouldn't have fucked me over.
If he is going to be a dick and act like god and say "I can do what I want" without regards as to how it affects me, he can go fuck himself.
I have no sympathy for those who fuck over their employees for no other reason than that they can.
There are THREE classes, not one and it is way passed time that the greedy dicks at the top realize that.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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You did not even read what I wrote. I can tell because you did not respond to the actual content. You posted the exact same rant that you have been on for a few weeks now.
Why not try to break out of that cycle? Go back, read what I wrote and when you comprehend that is was not even talking about your pet theory, try responding again, this time to the actual content.
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"Pet theory" is what America has been suffering from for the past 30 years.
And yes, I will keep repeating it because it needs to be repeated because their "pet theory" has fucked the rest of us over.
More of the same won't work.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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Brian, I am really sorry that your hours got cut. At least you still have hours.
Remember that it was not all that long ago that my prick boss canned me for no reason that actually had anything to do with me. Well, he had four pages of lies about my performance but they were all lies. I had been there over 20 years, done every job and knew every system in the place.
The prick also canned the other two people who had been there for over 10 years. I guess that his power trip is going to be about making sure that nobody works there long enough to gain much experience or something.
But for crying fucking out loud, the current topic is birth control and whether the state should reward people for having more babies than they can support. In my earlier post, I specifically mentioned a man who makes over $150,000 and will not stop making the wife pump them out. The whole family pulls in more in food stamps than I ever made.
That is not right. It is wanton abuse of a system that was put in place to help people who were struggling to feed themselves.
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Longer than 30 years. At least a century and a half. The crap gets recycled over and over. That is why the era when the train system was built had shitty wages while the robber barons sucked up the cash got filthy rich. That is why factories used to use child labor and had 12 hour work days. That is why we had the great depression. And so it goes.
I really do agree that we need change. Just not “fuck the rich” syndrome. We need ideas.
One of my ideas would be to hand out the best tax breaks to companies for investing back into the community. If you don't want to put some of the profits back where they came from, then you can pay more taxes.
Complimentary to that, if they really do want to move factories overseas, then fine but they have to invest in building those communities. Either that or stop charging $150 for a $5 pair of shoes here at home. Do that or pay more taxes.
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I did address that. I do not think we as a free society need to use China's tactics to implement policies that would reduce children living in poverty. Could it get to that point? Yes, but I do not think America will put up with that. I don't like it either because it basically says class matters and those without money have no rights.
Republican "values" have caused this. Marriage being sold as an absolute to all classes. Anti condom attitudes. No sex education, or little sex education, or biblical "abstaining". It does nothing to prepare a family for the future. All it does is say "fuck for god".
Poverty is not a crime nor should it be. We need to make education a priority. We need to reduce the pay gap and cost of living. We need to teach ALL CLASSES about family planning. We need to teach that marriage is not for everyone, and we need to teach that girls and women have the right to their own bodies. The more you educate society the better prepared they are. Don't criminalize one class, empower them. Work on stability and empowerment.
Simply making poverty a crime and treating your fellow human as a farm animal, is immoral. But if you think for example, that CURRENTLY, I would tell my co-worker, who is dirt poor, that his 3 kids should starve to death and not get food stamps, is sick.
Take care of what is going on NOW with what we have now, then work to reduce it in the future. I am not about to treat my fellow human as dead weight, much less a kid who had no choice in the matter.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
"fuck the rich" is not a syndrome, it is a reality for the reasons you stated above, that caused the great depression, and for the past 30 years we have backslid into going into that direction.
BUT, again, it is not "all or nothing" when I say "fuck the rich", I do not mean end wealth or the free market. When I say "fuck the rich" I am strictly talking about the attitude and direction of our current market.
WEALTH can pull us out of this, it just cannot do it and refuses to do it with it's current "let them eat cake" attitude and then bitch when others stand up to the monopoly. If they won't change their attitude on their own we will do it for them. But despite what they think, if we do, they will find out we were right all along.
It was better before. It got better after WW2 and since Reagan we have slid backwards. The crybabies at the top don't see how easily they could help and how much better off all of us would be if they did. But I am not going to wait for them to do it with their current attitude. Policies need to change and our bought government needs to end.
An attitude change is all I am looking for. Nothing more.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I'm not disputing that in any way, nor am I disputing that it's a widespread phenomenon. Nor am I disputing the social necessity of welfare.
BUT that doesn't mean there aren't welfare bums. There ARE welfare bums. People who do as much as they can to ensure they do as little as necessary to eke out a relatively enjoyable life at the expense of the taxpayer.
People who manipulate the system come from all walks of life. Whether exploiting employees or loopholes in the tax code to increase profits, or lying and avoiding work to get a free ride; there are plenty of people who manipulate the system at all levels of income.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
The "bums" are the minority. Having been low paid my working life, I can tell you that the vast majority of the poor are NOT lazy. That is a lie sold by the right and by the wealthy.
Yes, and agreed, but the "bums" at the bottom are a fraction of the working poor who are not lazy and the damage caused by the real welfare queens at the top are the ones who have caused the damage.
And what kills me is that they could easily get the working poor off the government dime and reduce the "bums" if they wanted to. They just don't want to. But "cant" is bullshit.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Then it is necessary to get them out of religious communities, let them have normal neighbours. Let their children see that all normal people have a normal number of children and these children each have their computer and their own room, because there are like, two of them. That's peer pressure and envy.
Maybe some day also rational arguments will work.
The cores of religion will probably live long and die out in isolation. But their children will be lured away by glasses and beads of modern society. New culture will creep in and take over, just like Americans infested most of the world with their Hollywood and McDonald's.
I am worried about the opinion of those with nothing, precisely because they have a plenty of if and it is a force that will transform the world. They want to share, because to them sharing comes easy, when they have nothing. And I'm not afraid of weapons, where will they shoot, when there is no enemy out there? Who can turn a weapon against the 99%? The more the 1% people shoot, the more they anger the global crowd. When they start shooting, they lose. Their only chance was to turn attention away from them, keep us mindlessly running in the monetary treadmill. But their greed broke the wheel and people sense that something is wrong.
Education is not a drill, even on large scale. Should it last, it must be participative.
I would not want to work in a company owned by you, it would probably be a fascist nightmare. It would take away my free will, ideas and... reproductive organs.
The great success of birth control pills tells me, that reproduction is not an unstoppable force, threatening to overwhelm us all.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
And claiming, like you do, that giving domestic companies 'financial incentives' to not look at relocating to another country where the burdened labor rate will substantially increase their bottom line, is something that people should be outraged about, is patently fucking stupid.
You mean like 'tip your waiter more'?
Fuck, you crack me up with your sound bites.
Why exactly should anyone do that? What do you think that is going to result in? Explain in detail the pros of doing that and I'll let you in on how compatible it is with 'a sound business strategy'.
You need a reality check and learn what the phrase 'what the market will bear' means.
That means that markets shift, and companies that don't shift, risk extinction. What this means is that 'workers' that don't grasp how they 'fit' into a business model, are delusional about how they actually do fit in a business model.
You have a clear double standard in 'expectations', and really don't understand business at all. I'm not picking on you, I was that ignorant and sure that I understood 'good business strategy' before I got into business over 20 yrs ago, despite being brought up in a family that owned 3 businesses.
It took me almost 10 yrs before I finally figured out which 'ideals' most hampered my success in business, and which 'universal' strategies are the ones to stick with, because their yield over time is the best and least risky.
The reality is, is that what looks good on paper, doesn't play out so well in real life.
I don't know what planet you live on... 'competition' is about gaining market share, and when all other things are equal to your competition, a lower price gains the advantage, so the company that can offer the same product for less, and still make the same margins, wins on 2 fronts.
You want to frame that as 'the worker loses', and hope that no one factors in that the company has provided 'an opportunity' for the worker to earn money, while not impinging on the 'workers' freedom to choose to do it somewhere else.
So, there's 'no crime' against the working class.
They are as 'free' as anyone to step up to the big league and 'provide opportunities' for workers.
Can you prove that? So, are they simply not as entrepreneurial as the 'rich'?
What point do you think you're making? Do you think that 'working hard' is the better strategy to 'working smarter'?
Why? You're 'outpowered', obviously.
I do. All the fricken' time and realize I'm glad that I managed to achieve something they didn't, which is better.
And you're disposable when you become more of a burden than an asset. Welcome to the real world...
What would you call it if they completely moved all their manufacturing to China, eliminating tens of thousands of 'American jobs' and sold the same number of imported product yet improved their bottom line exponentially?
You'd call it a 'tragedy', they'd call it was it is, which is a 'financial windfall'.
Financial incentives to those who offer huge job opportunities are 'preemptives' to avoid those kinds of 'tragedies'.
It's not only unfortunate that you're ignorant about how businesses actually work, but it's unfortunate that you don't want to really understand reality, when it's laid out for you in black and white, and can arm you with information so you can 'play the game' better.
And it is a game. You have a real disdain for people who have played the game better than you, but not factored in that it's usually due to the higher levels of risk and initiative that they put forth compared to you, or simply that they have more 'special' skills.
There could be any number of 'busboys' out there who can do what I do, and do it better, but will never achieve what I have and will achieve, and there's very simple reasons for that. And the 'flip side' of that is that they haven't as much as I do at stake.
I can 'invest' a couple of hours debating you with multiple posts (that'll go in one ear and out the other with you) where you might actually learn something, or I can turn to my computer and 'invest' the time into billable hours and make another few hundred dollars.
I'll take the money.
That's on top of an initial $15000.00 dollar order I scored today for a long term contract (as a matter of actual fact) from a 50 hr risk and initiative of time and resources I took 3 months ago.
It'll help me recoup the $1500.00 I paid a few weeks ago for a mint DOHC 5.0L 5 speed Porsche 928 S4 that I bought from a guy who needed to get out of a bad debt, that I can flip for 10-12k after I spend about 1000 bucks cleaning it up.
Oh, and I have 3 partners that are off to trade shows this week exhibiting our collaborations, where we can at the very least be sure to walk away with enough sales at the shows to recoup our development and trade show expenses, at the very least.
That's how you make money instead of excuses for why the 'system' won't led you get ahead.
The only reason I bother to point out your fallacies is so that other people don't fall for the same lame type of myopic understanding that doesn't actually arm people with a strategy to 'get ahead' in life.
Ever heard the axiom 'If it was easy, everybody would be doing it' ??
Bitching and complaining is as easy as breathing, and working smarter requires more skill and effort, which is why bitching and complaining is so much more popular...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
The guillotine isn't anywhere near by. Sure, at the very best, the World's investing and Board of Director elites might have to change some of their behaviors or at the very least, conceal them more effectively. Ever hear the phrase "Fuck you! I'm fully vested." (FYIFV)? Either way, greed isn't going anywhere, but it has the opportunity to better adapt its routines against legal and social consequences in the future using protesters as a testbed. As for sharing, well... banks are certainly in support of sharing. Timeshare, that is.
Yeah, who wants to wager if these "occupiers" are going to be remembered like the hippies of the 60s are remembered today by legions of (somewhat complacent) youths: stinky, uncouth, overly inclined to idealism and liberal Christianity, while utterly failing to accomplish what they initially set out to do with many of them growing up out of their late teens and young adult years to lead very productive, responsible, and market(greed)-oriented lives (yuppies.)
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Correction: Warren wants all the other rich people to pay more taxes, not him. Not a horse I would choose to back up.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
But you don't believe in making anything mandatory by force(except taking the wealth that I earn from me of course). So how you you make people see this and listen to you? Religious people already see the suffering in the world and it just makes them more religious.
If you say "fuck competition", you then lose to everyone that doesn't say this. It's the stated policy of our government to make schools, businesses and society more competitive. Why? The more wealth we generate means more taxes they can collect.
Why would a religion die out if it produces people with high birth rates? The culture that is going to die out is the one that produces low birth rates. Religion would innoculate themselves from the culture around them. Then use the welfare state to feed their kids. This is what has happened in Europe with the ongoing Muslim takeover. The Latino take over of culture America, same thing. This is why Catholicism keeps going despite the high numbers of people who quit the church.
The problem is that population grows until scarcity is the only limitation on further growth. So you can't have a scarcity free world without controls on breeding.
You forget the rich don't do the shooting, they can hire people to do the shooting and build the weapons. War is how we solve the problem of scarcity on an overpopulated planet.
But genes are not going to do something that is detrimental to their propagation. So people are not going to voluntarily give up overpopulating the planet.
But our brains are good at building technology, they are not so good at controlling our bad habits. That's why we can use our brains to invent technology to keep us from reproducing or getting fat. But we're not so good at voluntarily giving up over eating or not having sex when we can't afford children.
So you ought to be opposed to taxation, because it's the government deciding how to spend your money.
They work hard because they get paid. If they don't produce something people want to buy, they get fired or the company goes out of business. Google saying it ain't this way don't make it so. They also say don't be evil.
Well then if RBE is so great, Google will take over the world and we'll all work for them, right? Unfortunately, they only want to hire less than 1% of the population. So what about the 99% that could never qualify to work for them?
No, I don't think I could get any money for them. And I don't see how you can solve problems since you go by faith and propaganda, not evidence and logic.
What great success? With voluntary birth control, the most responsible people have none or few children. The most irresponsible and most religious have the most children. They both pass this on the next generation. So what does your undamaged brain tell you will happen over time?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
No, there is a difference between "what the markets will bare " and "what the cheats will manipulate and convince others that it is "what the market will bear"
I think the Wall Street protesters are getting wise to the propaganda.
You can sell shit as ice cream for only so long. So now that the "market" is bitching, then you shouldn't bitch yourself. Or is it that the market only works when you win?
Your problem is that you want to treat an entire economy like a checkbook, and it is not that simplistic. And you also want to blame the other two classes for the scam the top perpetuates to create the ponzy scheme bubbles the rest of us have paid for over the past 30 years.
IT IS NOT JUST what the market will bare. If that is the case then North Korea is great market because it's government makes it's citizens "bare" what they thrust on them.
Monopolies do not constitute a free market. And as long as one class is dogmatic and selfish as any other religion "what the market will bare" is as meaningless as nipples on men.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
*skims, scrolls down*
Kneejerk rage and fury. Our resident morality hawker has gone on yet another rabid crusade against evil. Color me surprised.
I'm not going call you a thief (no idea who you got that from), but I thought in addition making a snide remark, I would point out that we Randians could always use more leftists like you. Not in the sense you likely think, though. I mean this in the same sense that Republicans could always (indirectly) use more presidents like Obama because he will unintentionally strengthen their position. And by the time he realizes it, he moves to the center and becomes even more of an asshole than he was previously. My understanding is that if you and the people protesting Randianism and Wallstreet SHOUT DOWN ANY AND ALL OPPOSITION to their goals or ideology, you'll change people's minds... to being against you. So, I don't want you to stop, actually. But you might want to consider a change of course for the sake of your own values and goals, before you turn everyone you disagree with into a martyr. The sort of thing I see you doing with your posts here is part the same sort of thing I advise RRS'ers to stay the fuck away from and, I now think, I do it with ample reason.
So maybe you lost your job to a bitter termination (it certainly reads that way here.) In that case, you're no different than 100s of millions of Americans over the past century who consider themselves lucky to have food to eat. Many of these people did not have the safety nets that everyone has now, and many people often abuse.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Huh?
Maybe I am reading this wrong but it sounds like, "Brian, I am not against everything you say, just that your delivery turns people off and may turn them to your opposition"
Correct me if I am wrong?
Now, if you have been following my posts on this issue, and I do treat theism the same. I DO NOT HATE ALL that hold positions I do not hold. But that does not mean I should never blaspheme their position or call bullshit on a claim they may make.
On the issue of economics, I DO NOT CARE, that someone may want more money or more things in life than I do. Their desires have NEVER been my issue. THE STATE OF ATTITUDE overall, over the past 30 years however, has made it worse for more and more people.
Good, because I know I am not a thief. But when I suggest taxes to people with Beyond Saving's mindset, he treats me like a criminal, FORGETTING that for the past 30 years our voting society has given him everything that he wants, at the expense to the rest of us, WHICH PUT US IN THIS MESS.
People Like Beyond get upset when someone objects, as if I should not use the same government to vote to do something different than what his ilk has gotten away with for so long.
So all it amounts to is sour grapes when someone outside his club stands up and fights back.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I am partially against some of the things you say, but other than that... you got it right.
You'll note that Beyond and EXC have at least expressed a past desire to end corporate welfare in America. Not sure how genuine they are about that. My understanding is that it is the means those two want to end corporate welfare with, that causes a point of contention. Beyond has stated, IIRC, that it is not an increased quality of life nor increased economic efficiency that he wants to achieve with Laissez-faire. In my mind, this is my main problem with Laissez-faire. That, and the '29 stock market crash -investors trying to sell, sell, sell(!) like panicky, uninformed sheep. There was apparently quite the investment bubble in numerous businesses in America. There was no New Deal, or any Keynesian economic behavior that precipitated this historic crisis, as I understand it. Just investors spending and then selling like out-of-control sheepherds.
What happened afterwards kinda sucked, too. Millionaires (1930s money) selling apples at a street corner, and what have you. Ben Bernanke suggested that the Fed was responsible for the stock market crash back then, but since he lies about everything else, I have no reason to believe him.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
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Brian, why do you keep using 30 years as the moment when shit started to go down?
Clearly you do not take into account the terrible state of the economy before that.
We had economic stagnation and 20+% inflation. You could not even try to save money, you had to spend it as fast as you made it or it would rapidly become less. Gas went from $0.25 per gallon to $2.50 per gallon in a bit over a year. We invented right turn on red because it was so damned expensive to sit at red lights when there was no traffic related reason not to make the turn.
The big car companies came close to releasing hybrid engines (they having existed commercially since the end of WW1). They even built prototype cars with Stirling engines, which would suck as a main engines but would work in a hybrid.
The Federal government set up tax incentives for green energy because other energy was costing us so damned much. Put solar panels on your house and get a break from the crushing taxes of the time. The wealthy were buying jewelry at retail and having it appraised at wholsale in order to declare a tax loss.
I will not say that things are not bad today but all of the above happened under your dear sweet democrat president who taps on a few nails so that poor people can buy a house for half of what they can sell it at as as a PR stunt.
Bloody hell but he was so damned determined to be the commander in chief that he refused to listen to his own generals on the hostage rescue plan. He ordered them to use totally inadequate equiptment that ended up crashing in the dessert.
I ought not to need to remind you that the Iranians were so quaking in their boots when we elected Reagan that the hostages were returned on inaugration day. But since you keep spouting that all of the world's problems began on January 20, 1981, I really have no choice but to inform you that the world was in much deeper shit then and that was the very day that things started to get better.
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Also, don't even think about quoting me and not addressing what I have to say on the matter. You can say what you want to. Hell, you can shout it from the roof tops if that is where you are at. I am all for free speech.
However, if you start any post with a previous quote, then you should consider the idea of actually addressing the matter that you quote.
Diatribes do have their place in the great conversation but quoted text deserves the common courtesy of a response to the material at hand.
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That's not even germane to what I was talking about. Do you really not have a fucking clue about what I explained, or are you just being obtuse?
Let me dumb it down some more, and see if it will actually register this time. I responded by explaining shifting markets to your lecturing me about improper 'expectations' :
"Stop expecting the middle class and poor to accept less and do more for less."
Perhaps you're unaware that most white collar professionals don't get paid 'by the hour'. They get paid a 'salary' per year.
Perhaps you're unaware that some professionals get paid a 'base salary' + 'bonuses'.
Perhaps you're unaware that some businesses have to 'lower their prices' in order to maintain market share or patronage.
In all of these instances, these 'classes' of people understand that there are times they can not only get less for the same effort, but can at times work harder than before and get less, because of shifting markets, or what the market will bear.
IOW, suck it up, Buttercup, life isn't always fair, and 'business' is no exception.
That's not germane to anything I've said.
So how come there are so many people who have shit for brains?
Duhhh... where did I bitch about the 'market's bitching'?
You really don't have a clue do you? There's no better time for individuals who have money and great credit than times like these. They can not only buy things for pennies on the dollar with their money (like I did with that mint Porsche), but they can loan money leveraged against assets to borrowers for interest rates that they could never get from any bank because the banks won't loan money to borrowers.
As for me, I'm in aerospace level Industrial Engineering with almost unlimited flexibility in where I can find my next 'contract', or develop a technology or system that I can sell or license.
There are certain sectors that hardly notice a 'bump' no matter what the markets. Funeral homes, for example. I'm another example.
Are you on glue? Where the fuck did you get that from anything I said? Because of preemptives?
Ok, you really are on glue.
I never assigned any 'blame' anywhere. I just pointed out the fallacies in your assertions.
Who claimed that the whole problem going on in America is about what the market will bear?
Strawman much?
Who claimed that monopolies constitute a free market?
Was that supposed to make sense?
You really are off your fucking nut...
Are you referring to me in your diatribe of a class that's 'dogmatic and selfish'? Coz, that's fucking funny.
Let me explain what you term as 'dogmatic' is what I call an 'axiom'.
"Buy low, sell high" is an axiom in business. Your stupid mischaracterization of a logically sound strategy as a 'dogma' really only illustrates that you really don't have anything intelligent to debate, so instead you'll just foam at the mouth with rhetoric and vitriol.
As far as 'selfish'.... you do understand that it's 'subjective', don't you?
If that's your firm position about an important reality in business, I can confidently predict that you'll never be successful in life.
Thanks for laughs. This is better than HBO...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris