The great big thread of Nony vs. Israel

A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
The great big thread of Nony vs. Israel

For those who read my recommendations of The Jerusalem Post and Haaretz this is old news. For those who have better things to do with their time, such as forming opinion absent knowledge of the subject, the last week has become an admission of the obvious.

The one thing that was the unmentionable 800 lb gorilla in the room for months started being mentioned as an aside about a week ago by both the US and Israel. On Thursday in Israel the PM's Office said that when he spoke to the UN Netanyahu would address both the desire for peaceful negotiations and the 800 lb gorilla.

The gorilla is the fact that a state of Palestine can and presumably will take Israel before the ICJ, the International Court of Justice, for war crimes related to the occupation. Elvis has entered the building! Israelis have no defense. They are guilty as charged.

The gorilla is in the open. Izziehuggers take to the hills. Israel has routed your defense of Israel.

www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/netanyahu-israel-will-agree-to-upgrade-of-palestinian-status-not-statehood-1.384716

Quote:
Netanyahu told his interlocutors that granting the PA the status of a state would allow the Palestinians to go to the International Criminal Court in The Hague over issues like settlement construction. "But as long as it is less than a state, I'm ready to talk about it," a source familiar with the conversation quoted him as saying.

It is an admission of war crimes plain and simple.

Please folks, stop telling me I do not know what is going on but you do. Anyone who follows events in Israel would never have questioned Israel's war crimes.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

natural wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
natural wrote:

Serious question: Are you against all tyranny, or just Israeli tyranny? I renamed it to 'Israel' because I looked at your recent posts at the time and you seemed to be focusing on Israel. All the other posts were about Israel too. So, if they are now in one thread, it seemed fair that the subject of the thread reflect the content of it, namely Israel.

Are you in favor of Israeli tyranny?

No. I'm against all tyranny.

Are you going to stop beating your wife? <--- See how that works?

I know how that works. What is curious is why jewish tyranny gets a pass.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If you start posting about tyranny in general, then maybe it would start to make sense that you're really against tyranny, and not Israel. But as far as I know, you don't post about any tyranny but Israel's/Jews'. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I did not intend to talk about political philosophy. The group is politics.

I'm simply stating that I have not seen you stand up against tyranny in general, and so I don't see how your suggested post title is accurate, since you are only going on about Irael's/Jews' behaviour.

If you have been reading my posts, which I will always assume you have, then you know my point is my country, the US, neither supports the Hutus nor gives them money to buy machetes nor does it defend the Hutus in any way. The US does all three things when it is Jews. As you know I have posted that, why do you pretend you do not know I have posted that?

Quote:
Quote:
You appear to be implying

Appearances can be deceiving. I do appreciate you stating that this is how it appears to you, but I assure you I was not implying anything.

You are free to correct me if I'm wrong about your posting habits. Do you have any comments/threads that talk about tyranny in general, independent of Israel/Jews? If so, let me know and I'll update my opinion.

I do not get involved in the internal matters of foreign countries. As you knew before you posted this my objection is based upon US support of and encouragement of tyranny, murder, theft, and innumerable war crimes.

It is a simple fact one can only talk about the internal affairs of another country. However as a US citizen I have the possibility of doing something. As you have read my previous posts to that effect, why do you not address the explanation I gave instead of trying to start over again as though you had  not read it? 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Wonderist
atheist
Wonderist's picture
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2006-03-19
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:natural

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

natural wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
natural wrote:

Serious question: Are you against all tyranny, or just Israeli tyranny? I renamed it to 'Israel' because I looked at your recent posts at the time and you seemed to be focusing on Israel. All the other posts were about Israel too. So, if they are now in one thread, it seemed fair that the subject of the thread reflect the content of it, namely Israel.

Are you in favor of Israeli tyranny?

No. I'm against all tyranny.

Are you going to stop beating your wife? <--- See how that works?

I know how that works. What is curious is why jewish tyranny gets a pass.

Are you in favour of American tyranny?

Quote:
If you have been reading my posts, which I will always assume you have, then you know my point is my country, the US, neither supports the Hutus nor gives them money to buy machetes nor does it defend the Hutus in any way. The US does all three things when it is Jews. As you know I have posted that, why do you pretend you do not know I have posted that?

The US has done a lot worse than that. It's done a lot worse than Israel has, in fact. How many innocent Palestinians have the Israelis killed? More than 100,000? I severely doubt it. How many innocent Iraqis has America killed? Way more than that.

When you are equally cognizant of your own country's atrocities and war crimes, then you may begin to lecture me about tyranny.

Quote:
It is a simple fact one can only talk about the internal affairs of another country. However as a US citizen I have the possibility of doing something. As you have read my previous posts to that effect, why do you not address the explanation I gave instead of trying to start over again as though you had  not read it? 

So where are your posts denouncing Guantanamo Bay, the Iraq War, etc.? Israel is small potatoes compared to some of the shit America's got on its hands.

And I'm not condemning all Americans, nor do I ignore-out-of-existence those Americans who do not support their gov't's tyrannical acts as 'fake' Americans.

However, I do hold America and its citizens in general responsible for supporting clowns like Bush and Cheney for 8 years, for supporting the Iraq War, for continuing to support torture and inhumanity, and lots of other shit, simply because the US culture is so fucked up and needs so badly to be changed from the inside. And currently, the population in general seems unwilling or unable to make the necessary changes.

Really, the tiny poop from Israel barely smudges the surface of the enormous bucket of shit from America.

No offence to the average citizen. But wake the fuck up, people.

Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!

Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Pacioli wrote:

Pacioli wrote:
i am curious to know what you have in mind as the war history invented.

The principal reason for my question above was to see whether you would stick to the subject or turn your answer back to Jews and Palestine. You did the latter. I wonder why no-one is surprised?

What you read was common courtesy in keeping a discussoin on topic. If you wish to discuss WWII separately you should start new topic. Diversion is always considered discourteous.

Quote:
Anyway, a few minor comments on the blinkered vision you exposed in your direct answers.

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The idea that Germany started the war in Europe when it was Britain and France which declared war on Germany but not on Russia for the same invasion of Poland is a reasonable place to start. No one forced B&F to selectively declare war on Germany. It was their free choice to do so.

Oh, wow. This is an impressive reading of history, reducing everything to "he dunnit first", and "they were not forced to declare war on Gernany".

That is the way wars work as in Pearl Harbor.

Quote:
For the record, Germany invaded Poland on 1 September, Britain declared war on Germany on 3 September and Russia declared war on Poland on 17 September, by which time Germany already controlled the country and Russia was entering to pick up its agreed part. By this time Britain understood where lay its primary danger, and it was not Russia. Incidentally on the sources I have checked, Britain also failed to declare war on Czechoslovakia which also formally declared war on Poland.

So you agree Britain's war had nothing to do with Poland but simply an excuse for another war with Germany. So?

Quote:
Quote:
And the usual excuse Britain uses is a mutual defense treaty with Poland. No one forced Britain to honor it. And although it was an announced intention to create such a treaty in the spring of 1939 it was not signed until seven days before the war on Poland started.

Hell no, who would be forced to honour a treaty? And it was signed only a week before the invasion having been pledged less than a year before? Clearly, anyone can tell from this that it should not have been honoured.

It is interesting to watch how you make it up as you go along to suit your desired results, Nony.

I do not see your point. You say SHOULD. Why should it? Why should 44 million people die because a Prime Minister with brain cancer made a grandstand play with a rash offer which when defense of the military dictatorship ruling Poland was impossible? Who but a mad man would promise the impossible? Who but an idiot would think of defending one dictatorship from another?

Or was the purpose of the war to preserve Imperial Britain's hegemony over continental Europe? Was it worth 44 million lives for Britain to start a war it could not win, was not prepared to win and never had a hope in hell of winning on its own? Now tell me why the US supported Britain, the greatest tyranny the world has ever known, on the propaganda theme that Germany wanted to replace the British tyranny?

Quote:
Quote:
The entire claim that Germany fabricated the Polish cross border attack on Germany is based solely upon the statement of one German sargeant in 1945 without corroborating evidence. There is no other basis for it NOR was there before his statement in 1945 yet Britain was claiming it was faked from September 1939.

And Poland was a military dictatorship at the time the war started. Some lies are by ommission. So where comes the claim that is was for the freedom of the Polish people?

The supporting information for Poland attacking Germany being what, and of what relevance?

Because the "treaty" was to defend against German attack not a response to Polish attack.

Quote:
Poland was a failed democracy, effectively a one-party State, well before WW2. So what? Do you really think Britain and France had no idea of their legitimate strategic interests by that time?

I am certain they had strategic interests as did Germany. I do not see a difference between them. After all, Britain had enslaved nearly 1/3 of the world's people by 1939. Here I use "enslave" in the same sense as Brit propaganda used it with regard to Germany. I also use it in the sense that Gandhi used it which accounts for some 800,000+ of the 1/3. As one example, during the war Britain refused to divert resources in India from its war effort to save some 8 million from death by starvation. Estimates vary. Brits refused to keep records. Talk about your holocausts. They were allowed to die because of who they were, Hindus, not good Christian Brits.

Quote:
Quote:
Both Russia and Germany reclaimed territory taken from them as a consequence of WWI which had been part of their countries for centuries prior. If WWI had given the New England states to Canada, damned right the US would have reclaimed them at the earliest possible moment. Sorry but I don't see the problem. Perhaps you can explain it to me.

Straight after you explain to me why America has not been handed back to the Native Americans,

As you have read, and are now pretending you have not read, I have explained that by the existence of treaties with the Indians and that the Indians go to court to enforce them not to overturn them. Why are you not addressing my explanation? Why do you pretend you have not read the explanation? I do not speak for Canada or Oz. You will have to ask them.

When the Jews have a peace treaty with the Palestinians ceding ownership of private property with the Palestinians you get back to me with that issue.

Quote:
or Australia back to Aboriginals. Attempting to place fixed borders in Europe, given their history, is always matter of agreement, not of right. Look at the Balkan mess as recently as twenty years ago.

A sane person could always hope for agreement rather than strident assertion of rights.

As you know I have said, the US does not give the Hutus money to buy machetes but it gives Israel money to buy phosphorus bombs for use on civilians. The US does not send Clinton to congratulate the Hutus for being such a great people. Obama does not send Qwanza greetings to the Hutus. The same cannot be said to the criminal nation.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

jcgadfly wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
jcgadfly wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
jcgadfly wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The all in one thread subject be changed from the misleading anti-zionist to anti-dictatorship or anti-tyranny.

I hope this is not a bother.

Keeping you honest is never a bother

And you equating Israel with tyranny is more than I could have hoped for from the PTB.

Then you got what you wanted (sorta). I would have left it at "Nony vs. Jews" as you tend to equate all Jews with the government of Israel.  But I'm not one of the powers-that be.

Pay ATTENTION! It is the government of ISRAEL which equates itself with all Jews. That was one of my opening statements. And I noted essentially no condemnation of Israel for making that claim. Therefore Jews do not disagree with that characterization. Please read what I post. My position reflects the situation as it is.

If not a PTB then a BoD member?

So when people here show you that there are Jews who disagree with the Israeli government and you ignore the fact that these people exist as you have in this post, what else should I think? Are they lying because they disagree with what you think about them?

You'd best not ask me to pay too much attention to what you post because I'll keep pointing out when you drop turds like you have here.

Who showed me Jews who are not? I remember participants here saying they do not agree with Israel but they are atheists not Jews.

Who are you talking about?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

jcgadfly wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Vastet wrote:
"Excuse me but the US is more Christian than Israel is Jewish." Relevance?

Jews are a minority in Israel. It is loaded with fake Jews. It is clannish at best. By the Torah, non-observant it non-Jewish. Judaism is only ritual/taboo lifestyle. Yet Israel wants to reignite religious warfare in bibleland with a religious declaration. And the current crackpot PM is so stupid as to quote the Lubbivitcher Rebbe to the UN. That is sort of like quoting Jim Jones or David Koresh.

Quote:
I don't see how it matters just how theistic or theocratic a nation is. What matters is its actions. While religion, the UN, & the Nazi's can all be attributed to starting the mess, none of those can explain why it continues.

Such incredible ignorance of the history of Israel. Jewish terrorists were active in Palestine before Hitler joined the NSDAP. They were murdering Palestinians, bombing civilian markets to murder women and children for example, and Brits before Hitler became Chancellor. The Brits should be blaming the Nazis for sending tens of thousands of Jews to Palestine before the war. Google Ha' Avara agreement some day and read about it. Matter of fact the first arrivals from Europe were despised for not fighting. That was before they were recognized as a guilt assest.

Quote:
For 50 years its just gotten worse as technology and information become more available to all. The problems today stem from two issues, and each side is responsible for one. Palestinians refusing to acknowledge the reality of the state of Israel, and Israeli oppression of the Palestinian people.

Rather the fact is, like Jews, they want their property back from the Jews who stole it. They just want to go home.

Quote:
"The worst thing you can do for delusional people is agree with them. Therefore no one should agree with that nonsense." What, specifically, are you referring to as "nonsense". "The issue is Jewish theft of Palestinian private property" Technically you can accuse them of reception of stolen property, but it was the UN who stole it, not the jews.

One more time although I am certain you will continue to ignore it. The UN only dealt with sovereignty not ownership. They are not the same thing. The UN General Assembly did no more than endorse a plan calling for the formation of two governments. It did not and could not transfer ownership of the land. It was not theirs to give NOR did it claim to do so. The theft began in 1949 with the absentee owners laws. Why can you not keep this straight?

Have you never looked into the subject?

I see now - the Jews that stand against their government (and contradict your assertions) are the "fake Jews" so they don't really exist...

Non-observant Jews are fake Jews. Knitted kippa in Israeli terms. The Torah defines who is a Jew. If you do not lead a ritual/taboo lifestyle then you are not a Jew.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

natural wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
natural wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
natural wrote:

Serious question: Are you against all tyranny, or just Israeli tyranny? I renamed it to 'Israel' because I looked at your recent posts at the time and you seemed to be focusing on Israel. All the other posts were about Israel too. So, if they are now in one thread, it seemed fair that the subject of the thread reflect the content of it, namely Israel.

Are you in favor of Israeli tyranny?

No. I'm against all tyranny.

Are you going to stop beating your wife? <--- See how that works?

I know how that works. What is curious is why jewish tyranny gets a pass.

Are you in favour of American tyranny?

You mean my offer to contribute to the plane fare to send W Bush to the Hague to stand trial for a criminal war of aggression against Iraq did not give you a hint? Shall I add my advocacy of a speedy trial and a slow execution to get through to you? Of course I would prefer we give him the needle for the thousands of Americans dead because of him -- and his entire cabinet save for those who resigned of which there were none. How far down "following orders is no excuse" extends I leave to the courts.

Quote:
Quote:
If you have been reading my posts, which I will always assume you have, then you know my point is my country, the US, neither supports the Hutus nor gives them money to buy machetes nor does it defend the Hutus in any way. The US does all three things when it is Jews. As you know I have posted that, why do you pretend you do not know I have posted that?

The US has done a lot worse than that. It's done a lot worse than Israel has, in fact. How many innocent Palestinians have the Israelis killed? More than 100,000? I severely doubt it. How many innocent Iraqis has America killed? Way more than that.

When you are equally cognizant of your own country's atrocities and war crimes, then you may begin to lecture me about tyranny.

Do you really think you can teach your grandmother how to suck eggs? Been doing that for decades. Your ignorance of it does not make you clever merely ignorant, which you can correct should you care to do so.

But now you pretend you did not read my condemnation of Bush and the entire Iraq war. Why pretend? Is it supposed to be clever to pretend to be ignorant?

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Vastet wrote:
All criminal activity is about avoiding rules. The smart ones only get caught when they make a mistake. I think if the powers that be really wanted to make a case, there is nothing to stop them. The reason they don't is effectively because they would be fighting public support for Israel. It is similar to how Canada, before 9/11, allowed charitable donations to hamas. There was public support for the Palestinians, and it took a brief period of the people being overly concerned about the tactics Palestinians use (and their similarity to al qaidas) for hamas to put on the list of terrorist organisations. Should Israel ever fuck up so bad that the US ends its official support of Israel, you will see a lot more scrutiny of Israeli supporters.

You say stupid things. There is nothing further to discuss.

 

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Pacioli
atheist
Pacioli's picture
Posts: 64
Joined: 2011-09-17
User is offlineOffline
I am picking up only a few

I am picking up only a few points which I consider reasonably relevant to the nature of discussion in this thread; at least, to my perception of Nony's pattern of responses. Much of the rest of the material, if addressed in detail, would be around that in any case.

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Pacioli wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The idea that Germany started the war in Europe when it was Britain and France which declared war on Germany but not on Russia for the same invasion of Poland is a reasonable place to start. No one forced B&F to selectively declare war on Germany. It was their free choice to do so.

Oh, wow. This is an impressive reading of history, reducing everything to "he dunnit first", and "they were not forced to declare war on Gernany".

That is the way wars work as in Pearl Harbor.

...

Because the "treaty" was to defend against German attack not a response to Polish attack.

 

I asked for your supporting information for Poland attacking Germany. Doing you the courtesy that you do not claim Poland launched an attack on the scale of the Japanese assault, what is your evidence? In what respect would Germany have been unable to defend itself against a Polish border incursion without full scale war and invasion? What relevance do you consider that German invasion plans had and what do you make of the fact that they were executed according to plan, including evidence of immediate actions against Jews?

Your approach here seeks to manipulate details to raise sweeping generalisations which ignore swathes of fact. If you wish to persuade others of the balanced, evidentiary basis of your discussions on Israel/Palestine then it would help to display that balanced judgement in your rare excursions into other fields.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
So you agree Britain's war had nothing to do with Poland but simply an excuse for another war with Germany. So?
No, I did not say that nor do I agree with it. Read again. This line goes to your practice of ignoring context in favour of a particular obsession.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Pacioli wrote:
Straight after you explain to me why America has not been handed back to the Native Americans, or Australia back to Aboriginals.

Attempting to place fixed borders in Europe, given their history, is always matter of agreement, not of right. Look at the Balkan mess as recently as twenty years ago.

 

A sane person could always hope for agreement rather than strident assertion of rights.

When the Jews have a peace treaty with the Palestinians ceding ownership of private property with the Palestinians you get back to me with that issue.

As you know I have said, the US does not give the Hutus money to buy machetes but it gives Israel money to buy phosphorus bombs for use on civilians. The US does not send Clinton to congratulate the Hutus for being such a great people. Obama does not send Qwanza greetings to the Hutus. The same cannot be said to the criminal nation.

You display here that you simply avoid real questions of peoples and how disputes are resolved. I read your comments in this thread as smacking of self-righteousness; ordinarily the preserve of the religious.

 


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10687
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
You live in a fantasy world.

You live in a fantasy world. But at least you finally got something right.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 10687
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
"Jews are a minority in

"Jews are a minority in Israel. It is loaded..."

And yet Israel is a democracy, so the politicians are merely doing what they were elected to do by the majority of Israel. Religion of the majority is clearly irrelevant.

"Such incredible ignorance..."

Lol. You are clearly ignorant about the reality of TODAY, which is far more relevant than the reality of 60+ years ago.

"One more time although I am..."

I am well aware of what happened, but if you think for even a fraction of a second that Israel could have become a state and taken that land without the consent and support of the UN, then you are exceptionally stupid.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:jcgadfly

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Vastet wrote:
"Excuse me but the US is more Christian than Israel is Jewish." Relevance?

Jews are a minority in Israel. It is loaded with fake Jews. It is clannish at best. By the Torah, non-observant it non-Jewish. Judaism is only ritual/taboo lifestyle. Yet Israel wants to reignite religious warfare in bibleland with a religious declaration. And the current crackpot PM is so stupid as to quote the Lubbivitcher Rebbe to the UN. That is sort of like quoting Jim Jones or David Koresh.

Quote:
I don't see how it matters just how theistic or theocratic a nation is. What matters is its actions. While religion, the UN, & the Nazi's can all be attributed to starting the mess, none of those can explain why it continues.

Such incredible ignorance of the history of Israel. Jewish terrorists were active in Palestine before Hitler joined the NSDAP. They were murdering Palestinians, bombing civilian markets to murder women and children for example, and Brits before Hitler became Chancellor. The Brits should be blaming the Nazis for sending tens of thousands of Jews to Palestine before the war. Google Ha' Avara agreement some day and read about it. Matter of fact the first arrivals from Europe were despised for not fighting. That was before they were recognized as a guilt assest.

Quote:
For 50 years its just gotten worse as technology and information become more available to all. The problems today stem from two issues, and each side is responsible for one. Palestinians refusing to acknowledge the reality of the state of Israel, and Israeli oppression of the Palestinian people.

Rather the fact is, like Jews, they want their property back from the Jews who stole it. They just want to go home.

Quote:
"The worst thing you can do for delusional people is agree with them. Therefore no one should agree with that nonsense." What, specifically, are you referring to as "nonsense". "The issue is Jewish theft of Palestinian private property" Technically you can accuse them of reception of stolen property, but it was the UN who stole it, not the jews.

One more time although I am certain you will continue to ignore it. The UN only dealt with sovereignty not ownership. They are not the same thing. The UN General Assembly did no more than endorse a plan calling for the formation of two governments. It did not and could not transfer ownership of the land. It was not theirs to give NOR did it claim to do so. The theft began in 1949 with the absentee owners laws. Why can you not keep this straight?

Have you never looked into the subject?

I see now - the Jews that stand against their government (and contradict your assertions) are the "fake Jews" so they don't really exist...

Non-observant Jews are fake Jews. Knitted kippa in Israeli terms. The Torah defines who is a Jew. If you do not lead a ritual/taboo lifestyle then you are not a Jew.

And now you are the sole arbiter of who is properly following the Torah? Your job must be so difficult - making sure that every follower of the Torah follows your interpretation of it so they can be "real Jews" in your eyes.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Wonderist
atheist
Wonderist's picture
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2006-03-19
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:natural

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

natural wrote:
Are you in favour of American tyranny?

You mean my offer to contribute to the plane fare to send W Bush to the Hague to stand trial for a criminal war of aggression against Iraq did not give you a hint? Shall I add my advocacy of a speedy trial and a slow execution to get through to you? Of course I would prefer we give him the needle for the thousands of Americans dead because of him -- and his entire cabinet save for those who resigned of which there were none. How far down "following orders is no excuse" extends I leave to the courts.

That's it? A measly paragraph? And only directed at one person? What about all the Americans that voted for Bush? What about all his cronies? What about the entire Republican Party? What about the lame Democratic Party? Where's your condemnation of them?

Seriously, Nony. Do a little reality checking once in a while. I try to do mine regularly. Makes me a bit jaded of politics, but at least it's more realistic.

 

Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!

Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!


Wonderist
atheist
Wonderist's picture
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2006-03-19
User is offlineOffline
jcgadfly wrote:A_Nony_Mouse

jcgadfly wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

I see now - the Jews that stand against their government (and contradict your assertions) are the "fake Jews" so they don't really exist...

Non-observant Jews are fake Jews. Knitted kippa in Israeli terms. The Torah defines who is a Jew. If you do not lead a ritual/taboo lifestyle then you are not a Jew.

And now you are the sole arbiter of who is properly following the Torah? Your job must be so difficult - making sure that every follower of the Torah follows your interpretation of it so they can be "real Jews" in your eyes.

Ironic, since he previously accused anyone who accepts the interpretations of the Torah as a closet Jew.

So, Nony, if the Torah defines who is a Jew, and you're following the Torah's lead, then I guess you're a closet Jew, right?

Visiting the family for Yom Kippur this year? Have an extra Matzah ball for me.

Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!

Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13660
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Cpt_pineapple wrote:jcgadfly

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Not trying to play any shell game. The fact is that the Christians would like to see people who don't think that Jesus is the son of God dead. That includes the Muslims and the Jews. It's about time that both groups in the middle east realized who their true enemy is.

The fact that you'd like the Jews to be under Islamic tyranny is no better than wanting the Muslims to be under Jewish tyranny. Damn shame you can't see that.

 

And this ladies and gentlemen, is why I speak out so loudly about issues like this. By just dismissing the actual causes like this and having absolutely no evidence to back it up, you aren't helping and even are hindering the process towards fixing them.

 

 

 

However this conflict gets solved, and right now, I don't see it ending soon, WILL NOT be solved by hypocrisy in rightfully condemning the other's actions, while at the same time supporting what would be just as oppressive if put in place.

"WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO SET UP OUR OWN XENOPHOBIC STATE,"

I support ANY and all individuals ON BOTH SIDES, that are truly secular in attitude and condemn equally the hateful fear mongering tactics that perpetuate this childish tribal bullshit.

What I will not do is support any group that if given it's own state, that would CONTINUE its sell of fear and hate.

The only way I see this ending is for the labels and and politics and religions to be put aside and for BOTH sides to see the other as human and not sub human.

Not all Palestinians are theocratic nuts and not all Israelis are land grabbing thugs. The key is to get those who agree that both are to blame to put pressure on their own camps. Instead of pointing fingers what would be more productive is to find common overlap and have that common overlap grow to outnumber those in both camps bent on the needless perpetuation of this bullshit.

Right now you have a majority in both camps who don't want this conflict to end and have the mentality of "all or nothing". If enough people on both sides grow and outnumber these morons, THATS when problems will get solved.

This is a conflict resolution problem. THAT is the way it needs to be viewed instead of a tribal label problem. It needs to be seen as a human condition problem, and not a "tradition" or "flag" or "political" problem.

Neither side likes to be punched in the face, so BOTH sides need to see the other as fellow humans and not enemies. Unless and until this happens, this conflict wont end anytime soon.

BOTH SIDES NEED TO STOP THE BLAME GAME AND STOP THE BULLSHIT LABELS AND STOP THE PISSING CONTEST.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Wonderist
atheist
Wonderist's picture
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2006-03-19
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Vastet

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Pfft. As if a few little "rules" stop lobbyists from being lobbyists. ps, please don't take my condescending manner as an insult to you, as I direct it towards lobbyists and the systems so broken that one who has sufficient $ can lobby for anything without fitting the legal definition of lobbying. Now that we've returned to civility I'd rather not backslide.

I find it odd your "defense" of Jews supporting Israel is to claim they are all federal felons.

Most lobbyists are federal felons, I'd imagine. Scratch the surface veneer of legality....

Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!

Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Brian37 wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:
jcgadfly wrote:
Not trying to play any shell game. The fact is that the Christians would like to see people who don't think that Jesus is the son of God dead. That includes the Muslims and the Jews. It's about time that both groups in the middle east realized who their true enemy is.

The fact that you'd like the Jews to be under Islamic tyranny is no better than wanting the Muslims to be under Jewish tyranny. Damn shame you can't see that.

And this ladies and gentlemen, is why I speak out so loudly about issues like this. By just dismissing the actual causes like this and having absolutely no evidence to back it up, you aren't helping and even are hindering the process towards fixing them.

However this conflict gets solved, and right now, I don't see it ending soon, WILL NOT be solved by hypocrisy in rightfully condemning the other's actions, while at the same time supporting what would be just as oppressive if put in place.

"WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO SET UP OUR OWN XENOPHOBIC STATE,"

I support ANY and all individuals ON BOTH SIDES, that are truly secular in attitude and condemn equally the hateful fear mongering tactics that perpetuate this childish tribal bullshit.

As has been demonstrated repeatedly, the Palestinian side is the secular side while the Jewish side is knee deep is religious BS in the matter.

Why is it the izziehuggers are incapable of recognizing this even after weeks of failing to respond to the challenge of showing Palestinian leaders are the same kind of fruitcakes as jewish leaders?

Yet the same knowing lie about the Paletsinians is forever repeated as though it were other than a lie.

Quote:
What I will not do is support any group that if given it's own state, that would CONTINUE its sell of fear and hate.

Which, surprise! surprise! just happens to also support the despotic jewish tyrants. Support for religious fruitcakes who would not be there were it not for religious bullshit cannot be justified on any grounds. Violations of fundamental human rights cannot be justified on any grounds. War crimes too numerous to mention cannot be justified on any grounds.

Quote:
The only way I see this ending is for the labels and and politics and religions to be put aside and for BOTH sides to see the other as human and not sub human.

Again you lie about the Palestinians. Is lying the only thing you have?

Quote:
Not all Palestinians are theocratic nuts and not all Israelis are land grabbing thugs. The key is to get those who agree that both are to blame to put pressure on their own camps. Instead of pointing fingers what would be more productive is to find common overlap and have that common overlap grow to outnumber those in both camps bent on the needless perpetuation of this bullshit.

Right now you have a majority in both camps who don't want this conflict to end and have the mentality of "all or nothing". If enough people on both sides grow and outnumber these morons, THATS when problems will get solved.

This is a conflict resolution problem. THAT is the way it needs to be viewed instead of a tribal label problem. It needs to be seen as a human condition problem, and not a "tradition" or "flag" or "political" problem.

Neither side likes to be punched in the face, so BOTH sides need to see the other as fellow humans and not enemies. Unless and until this happens, this conflict wont end anytime soon.

BOTH SIDES NEED TO STOP THE BLAME GAME AND STOP THE BULLSHIT LABELS AND STOP THE PISSING CONTEST.

Nothing but a pack of knowing, deliberate lies about the Palestinians to support jewish tyranny.

It is clear the only defense of Israel is lies.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

natural wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Vastet wrote:
Pfft. As if a few little "rules" stop lobbyists from being lobbyists. ps, please don't take my condescending manner as an insult to you, as I direct it towards lobbyists and the systems so broken that one who has sufficient $ can lobby for anything without fitting the legal definition of lobbying. Now that we've returned to civility I'd rather not backslide.

I find it odd your "defense" of Jews supporting Israel is to claim they are all federal felons.

Most lobbyists are federal felons, I'd imagine. Scratch the surface veneer of legality....

If  you are a US citizen and have evidence of it then you are required by law to report it.

Feigned ignorance is silly. Real ignorance can be corrected. The inability to tell legal from illegal is developmental problem.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Pacioli wrote:

I am picking up only a few points which I consider reasonably relevant to the nature of discussion in this thread; at least, to my perception of Nony's pattern of responses. Much of the rest of the material, if addressed in detail, would be around that in any case.

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Pacioli wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The idea that Germany started the war in Europe when it was Britain and France which declared war on Germany but not on Russia for the same invasion of Poland is a reasonable place to start. No one forced B&F to selectively declare war on Germany. It was their free choice to do so.

Oh, wow. This is an impressive reading of history, reducing everything to "he dunnit first", and "they were not forced to declare war on Gernany".

That is the way wars work as in Pearl Harbor.

...

Because the "treaty" was to defend against German attack not a response to Polish attack.

 

I asked for your supporting information for Poland attacking Germany.

When you asked after the invented history of WWII I naturally assumed you were familiar with the subject. As you are not familiar with it I decline to "honor" of both educating you and explaining it to you.


Thank you for the waste of bandwidth.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Vastet wrote:
"Jews are a minority in Israel. It is loaded..." And yet Israel is a democracy, so the politicians are merely doing what they were elected to do by the majority of Israel.

I have often taken the position that the voters are responsible for the actions of their government. I agree those whose internal passports are stamped with a J are responsible for the tyranny of their government making it jewish tyranny. Is there anything else?

Quote:
Religion of the majority is clearly irrelevant.

Their legal status as Jews is the ruling majority. The real and fake Jews is of course a side comment. You bring to the fore the legal status as jewish makes those with that status legally responsible for the actions of their government. At least in Nazi Germany was a dictatorship and the people could deny responsibility for their government's atrocities. As a democracy Israeli are clearly complicit in their country's crimes.

Quote:
"Such incredible ignorance..." Lol. You are clearly ignorant about the reality of TODAY, which is far more relevant than the reality of 60+ years ago. "One more time although I am..." I am well aware of what happened, but if you think for even a fraction of a second that Israel could have become a state and taken that land without the consent and support of the UN, then you are exceptionally stupid.

UNSC Resolution 144 requires the return of the Palestinian refugees and the return of their property. Where do you see UN complicity in these jewish crimes? Is your position the UN didn't really mean it if they didn't bomb the shit out of the Jews and force the return of their victims? Should the UN have made membership conditional upon the return of the refugees? It did. Is your position that the condition should be enforced today? Should Israel's membership with withdrawn? Or simply military action to accomplish the justice the UN has demanded from the beginning?

But if you are once again stating you do not know the difference between sovereignty and ownership I can only suggest you get an MRI to see if you have a brain lesion or TEA damage. There must be many other obvious differences you cannot comprehend so overall it would be a good thing for you to have done.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

jcgadfly wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
...

Non-observant Jews are fake Jews. Knitted kippa in Israeli terms. The Torah defines who is a Jew. If you do not lead a ritual/taboo lifestyle then you are not a Jew.

And now you are the sole arbiter of who is properly following the Torah? Your job must be so difficult - making sure that every follower of the Torah follows your interpretation of it so they can be "real Jews" in your eyes.

I did not say that. I left "properly following" wide open. I merely stated following the Torah is a requirement for being a Jew along with having a jewish mother, a Bris and a Mikvah. You are free to interpret your rituals and taboos any way you wish. So are Muslims in their rituals and taboos. Judaism lite so to speak.

You are not a jew. Why do you care?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

natural wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

natural wrote:
Are you in favour of American tyranny?

You mean my offer to contribute to the plane fare to send W Bush to the Hague to stand trial for a criminal war of aggression against Iraq did not give you a hint? Shall I add my advocacy of a speedy trial and a slow execution to get through to you? Of course I would prefer we give him the needle for the thousands of Americans dead because of him -- and his entire cabinet save for those who resigned of which there were none. How far down "following orders is no excuse" extends I leave to the courts.

That's it? A measly paragraph? And only directed at one person? What about all the Americans that voted for Bush? What about all his cronies? What about the entire Republican Party? What about the lame Democratic Party? Where's your condemnation of them?

Seriously, Nony. Do a little reality checking once in a while. I try to do mine regularly. Makes me a bit jaded of politics, but at least it's more realistic.

I have taken the liberty to underline the words which clearly indicate many, many more than just one person. Is this the best you can do?

 

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

natural wrote:
jcgadfly wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
jcgadfly wrote:

I see now - the Jews that stand against their government (and contradict your assertions) are the "fake Jews" so they don't really exist...

Non-observant Jews are fake Jews. Knitted kippa in Israeli terms. The Torah defines who is a Jew. If you do not lead a ritual/taboo lifestyle then you are not a Jew.

And now you are the sole arbiter of who is properly following the Torah? Your job must be so difficult - making sure that every follower of the Torah follows your interpretation of it so they can be "real Jews" in your eyes.

Ironic, since he previously accused anyone who accepts the interpretations of the Torah as a closet Jew.

So, Nony, if the Torah defines who is a Jew, and you're following the Torah's lead, then I guess you're a closet Jew, right?

Visiting the family for Yom Kippur this year? Have an extra Matzah ball for me.

Will the assertion I have done that join the lies about the religious motivation of the Palestinians as opposed to the religious fruitcakes Israel has as political leaders?

Rhetorical of course.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Wonderist
atheist
Wonderist's picture
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2006-03-19
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:natural

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

natural wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

natural wrote:
Are you in favour of American tyranny?

You mean my offer to contribute to the plane fare to send W Bush to the Hague to stand trial for a criminal war of aggression against Iraq did not give you a hint? Shall I add my advocacy of a speedy trial and a slow execution to get through to you? Of course I would prefer we give him the needle for the thousands of Americans dead because of him -- and his entire cabinet save for those who resigned of which there were none. How far down "following orders is no excuse" extends I leave to the courts.

That's it? A measly paragraph? And only directed at one person? What about all the Americans that voted for Bush? What about all his cronies? What about the entire Republican Party? What about the lame Democratic Party? Where's your condemnation of them?

Seriously, Nony. Do a little reality checking once in a while. I try to do mine regularly. Makes me a bit jaded of politics, but at least it's more realistic.

I have taken the liberty to underline the words which clearly indicate many, many more than just one person. Is this the best you can do?

Apparently, a measly paragraph is the best you can do.

And since I noticed that you have condemned Jewish voters for the actions of their gov't. Do you also condemn American voters for the actions of their gov't?

Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!

Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!


Wonderist
atheist
Wonderist's picture
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2006-03-19
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:natural

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

natural wrote:

Ironic, since he previously accused anyone who accepts the interpretations of the Torah as a closet Jew.

So, Nony, if the Torah defines who is a Jew, and you're following the Torah's lead, then I guess you're a closet Jew, right?

Visiting the family for Yom Kippur this year? Have an extra Matzah ball for me.

Will the assertion I have done that join the lies about the religious motivation of the Palestinians as opposed to the religious fruitcakes Israel has as political leaders?

Rhetorical of course.

I admit I misinterpreted this comment as accusing Watcher of being a closet Jew. Didn't connect the following sentence with the underlined ones. My mistake.

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Watcher wrote:
How about Anony's racist ranting against the Jews?

Jews are a religion not a race.

The only basis to claim a person is a Jew by birth is in the Torah. If you accept the Torah you are not an atheist. No atheist cam claim to have been born a Jew. That is a theistic assertion.

Edit: To be clear, though, I do not agree with your statement that "The only basis" to be a Jew is by the Torah. Some people, such as Jerry Coyne, call themselves Jews simply because they identify with some of the culture of their Jewish ancestors, but not with their religious beliefs. These are cultural Jews. I don't believe Coyne would claim he was 'born' a Jew, but simply 'raised' in a Jewish family culture. He certainly does not see being Jewish as being a race. There are religious Jews, who follow the Torah, and there are cultural Jews, who may or may not follow the Torah but simply identify with other cultural elements, and there are even atheist Jews who don't follow the Torah and only identify with some of the cultural elements. Judaism is the religion. Not all cultural Jews are Judaists.

Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!

Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

Well Nony, as you have personally observed a great many times, Palestininans and Jews emerged as separate groups only a couple of centuries apart (correct me if it was more like threeish). The matter of land theft goes to the Koine Greek speaking branch of Rome.

 

Rome eventually became the Catholic church and basically abandoned the area during the dark ages. Not before dispersing the population though. Then, about a thousand years ago, they had several walking abortions of wars to try and get it back.

 

So on and so on, you know the deal.

 

Today, the majority of the land is held under the UN partition. This is a matter of international law. About 20% of the people living there are Palestininans. So basically, they have a mandate under international law to exist.

 

The question that I see here is what to do about the two scraps of land they won when they kicked the ass out of two other nations in less than a week. As far as I am aware, Syria is not happy with the matter but they are granting Israel a slide. Egypt is slightly different. Prior to Arab Spring, they were spending non trivial cash to participate in the Gaza blockade. Not sure how that is going now but probably not as the original plan intended.

 

Now I have seen nobody in any thread say that they are happy with how Israel is dealing with that but at the same time, the Palestininans are using random mass muder of people outside their own territory to express themselves. This you seem to have no problem with.

 

So do you support terror in general or just against jews?

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:
Well Nony, as you have personally observed a great many times, Palestininans and Jews emerged as separate groups only a couple of centuries apart (correct me if it was more like threeish). The matter of land theft goes to the Koine Greek speaking branch of Rome.

The Palestinians first appear in the 5th c. BC. The subset of the Palestinians, the people of the city state of Jerusalem, the Judeans, first appear in the 2nd c. BC. Yes, a few centuries appart but the Judeans were Palestinians so there was no separation. So the spread of the Yahweh cult by military conquest was always an internal Palestinian matter.

Nor did the concept of "land theft" arise because conquest was not and is not ownership. If you want to look into the matter there are very limited sources which are quite difficult to make sense of in our terms. Josephus is the most voluminous source although his Wars of the Jews shows he was not an historian as he writes things that are contradicted by authoritative sources available to him in his time.

Quote:
Rome eventually became the Catholic church and basically abandoned the area during the dark ages. Not before dispersing the population though. Then, about a thousand years ago, they had several walking abortions of wars to try and get it back.

The region was always under the authority of the Eastern Orthodox out of Byzantium which did not have "dark ages." There is no record of any "dispersing" of any population out of Palestine or part thereof at any time in history. If you wish to try to summarize the Crusades I suggest you need to start with at least a hundred thousand words.

Quote:
So on and so on, you know the deal.

I am familiar with the relevant history of the region. It is rather clear you are not.

Quote:
Today, the majority of the land is held under the UN partition. This is a matter of international law. About 20% of the people living there are Palestininans. So basically, they have a mandate under international law to exist.

The LoN mandate ceased to exist in 1948 when Britain left. The partition plan was never adopted by the Security Council which was required to give it the force of law. It does not appear you have any idea what you are talking about.

Quote:
The question that I see here is what to do about the two scraps of land they won when they kicked the ass out of two other nations in less than a week.

You appear to have jumped to the 1967 war that Israel started and it was three nations. Even Moshe Dayan stated Israel attacked Syria.

Quote:
As far as I am aware, Syria is not happy with the matter but they are granting Israel a slide.

Syria offered Israel a peace treaty for return of the Syrian Heights which Israel committed the war crime of annexing if that is what you mean. Israel refused the offer.

Quote:
Egypt is slightly different. Prior to Arab Spring, they were spending non trivial cash to participate in the Gaza blockade. Not sure how that is going now but probably not as the original plan intended.

Dictators do what they are bribed to do. Like selling Israel natural gas at below market prices for example. The Shah of Iran did a similar thing with oil transit fees.

Quote:
Now I have seen nobody in any thread say that they are happy with how Israel is dealing with that but at the same time, the Palestininans are using random mass muder of people outside their own territory to express themselves. This you seem to have no problem with.

Attacking the population of the occupying power is an absolute right under international law. Have you never heard of WWII? If Israel were to end the occupation and give the Palestinian refugees the same justice Israel demands from Europe in the matter of WWII I would have to reconsider the lawful basis for the Palestinian right to do anything they want or can to the Israelis.

However both Shin Bet and the IDF have agreed with international observers that the Palestinians have ceased exercising their lawful right of resistance as defined during WWII so there has been nothing to have a problem with for some five years. What do you imagine is happening that is not happening?

Quote:
So do you support terror in general or just against jews?

I support Geneva IV and Hague V with give them the right to kill Israelis.

Do you decline to support international law only when Jews are involved?

Do you condemn the Jewish resistance during WWII?

Do you spend a lot of time coming up with foolish questions?

Have you ever spent any time at all looking into the ancient history of Palestine?

How long will it take you to come up with another post demonstrating you have no knowledge of the issues involved nor the foundation for them?

Have you not noticed in all these years not one single person has presented evidence I have made a factual error on this subject?

If you want to be the first, produce some facts.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Pacioli
atheist
Pacioli's picture
Posts: 64
Joined: 2011-09-17
User is offlineOffline
Nony's fear stinks over here

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Pacioli wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Pacioli wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The idea that Germany started the war in Europe when it was Britain and France which declared war on Germany but not on Russia for the same invasion of Poland is a reasonable place to start. No one forced B&F to selectively declare war on Germany. It was their free choice to do so.

Oh, wow. This is an impressive reading of history, reducing everything to "he dunnit first", and "they were not forced to declare war on Gernany".

That is the way wars work as in Pearl Harbor.

...

Because the "treaty" was to defend against German attack not a response to Polish attack.

 

I asked for your supporting information for Poland attacking Germany.  Doing you the courtesy that you do not claim Poland launched an attack on the scale of the Japanese assault, what is your evidence? In what respect would Germany have been unable to defend itself against a Polish border incursion without full scale war and invasion? What relevance do you consider that German invasion plans had and what do you make of the fact that they were executed according to plan, including evidence of immediate actions against Jews? 

Your approach here seeks to manipulate details to raise sweeping generalisations which ignore swathes of fact. If you wish to persuade others of the balanced, evidentiary basis of your discussions on Israel/Palestine then it would help to display that balanced judgement in your rare excursions into other fields.

When you asked after the invented history of WWII I naturally assumed you were familiar with the subject. As you are not familiar with it I decline to "honor" of both educating you and explaining it to you.

Thank you for the waste of bandwidth.

Knowing how ready Nony is to ignore inconvenient questions, I have restored the remainder of my relevant paragraph in the above quotation, in bold.

Nony, if my knowledge of WWII history is so dreadfully lacking then it will be trivial for you to answer, dismissively to offer authoritative references.

Where is your supporting evidence for Poland attacking Germany?

In what respect would the Germany of 1939 have been unable to defend itself against a Polish incursion without full scale war and invasion?

What relevance had German invasion plans had and what do you make of the fact that they were executed according to plan, including evidence of immediate actions against Jews?

And a new questioin, which for the moment you may consider rhetorical while you answer the above:

Are your views on German actions in WWII in any respect influenced by your view of Jews, Jewry or subsequent actions of the established Jewish State?


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

natural wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
natural wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
natural wrote:
Are you in favour of American tyranny?

You mean my offer to contribute to the plane fare to send W Bush to the Hague to stand trial for a criminal war of aggression against Iraq did not give you a hint? Shall I add my advocacy of a speedy trial and a slow execution to get through to you? Of course I would prefer we give him the needle for the thousands of Americans dead because of him -- and his entire cabinet save for those who resigned of which there were none. How far down "following orders is no excuse" extends I leave to the courts.

That's it? A measly paragraph? And only directed at one person? What about all the Americans that voted for Bush? What about all his cronies? What about the entire Republican Party? What about the lame Democratic Party? Where's your condemnation of them?

Seriously, Nony. Do a little reality checking once in a while. I try to do mine regularly. Makes me a bit jaded of politics, but at least it's more realistic.

I have taken the liberty to underline the words which clearly indicate many, many more than just one person. Is this the best you can do?

Apparently, a measly paragraph is the best you can do.

And since I noticed that you have condemned Jewish voters for the actions of their gov't. Do you also condemn American voters for the actions of their gov't?

I could have said everyone in one sentence. Is this your idea of being cute?

I have in fact done the same for the US. It is on my website. Get over it.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

natural wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
natural wrote:
Ironic, since he previously accused anyone who accepts the interpretations of the Torah as a closet Jew.

So, Nony, if the Torah defines who is a Jew, and you're following the Torah's lead, then I guess you're a closet Jew, right?

Visiting the family for Yom Kippur this year? Have an extra Matzah ball for me.

Will the assertion I have done that join the lies about the religious motivation of the Palestinians as opposed to the religious fruitcakes Israel has as political leaders?

Rhetorical of course.

I admit I misinterpreted this comment as accusing Watcher of being a closet Jew. Didn't connect the following sentence with the underlined ones. My mistake.

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Watcher wrote:
How about Anony's racist ranting against the Jews?

Jews are a religion not a race.

The only basis to claim a person is a Jew by birth is in the Torah. If you accept the Torah you are not an atheist. No atheist cam claim to have been born a Jew. That is a theistic assertion.

Edit: To be clear, though, I do not agree with your statement that "The only basis" to be a Jew is by the Torah. Some people, such as Jerry Coyne, call themselves Jews simply because they identify with some of the culture of their Jewish ancestors, but not with their religious beliefs.

These are cultural Jews.

I am not responsible for idiots nor for people who claim they are Napoleon. There is no Jewish culture separate from the religion. Do you think jewish Yemenis do Russian circle dances singing Hava Negilah to the tune of Irving Berlin? If he wants to claim Yiddishe that is Slavic not Jewish. Or does he ululate instead of applaud like jewish Yemenis and jewish Arabs?

There is no jewish culture nor ethnic group. There is only the religion as the sole common thread. Israel not only suppresses muslim Palestinian culture it suppressed jewish Palestinian and jewish Arab culture. Which is odd in that while it promotes only Ashkenazi it also suppressed Yiddish as a language.

Quote:
I don't believe Coyne would claim he was 'born' a Jew,

There are no points given for not believing the impossible. So far as I am aware only two conditions of birth are recognized, live and dead although the legal definitions vary from country to country.

Quote:
but simply 'raised' in a Jewish family culture. He certainly does not see being Jewish as being a race. There are religious Jews, who follow the Torah, and there are cultural Jews, who may or may not follow the Torah but simply identify with other cultural elements, and there are even atheist Jews who don't follow the Torah and only identify with some of the cultural elements. Judaism is the religion. Not all cultural Jews are Judaists.

At best you are describing a fraternal organization. Granted an organization of fraternal retards who have no idea what culture means nor of the many unrelated cultures which have real Jews as members but nothing more than a fraternal organization. In any event I do not take the Loyal Order of Raccoons or any other fraternal order seriously.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Pacioli wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Pacioli wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Pacioli wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
The idea that Germany started the war in Europe when it was Britain and France which declared war on Germany but not on Russia for the same invasion of Poland is a reasonable place to start. No one forced B&F to selectively declare war on Germany. It was their free choice to do so.

Oh, wow. This is an impressive reading of history, reducing everything to "he dunnit first", and "they were not forced to declare war on Gernany".

That is the way wars work as in Pearl Harbor.

...

Because the "treaty" was to defend against German attack not a response to Polish attack.

 

I asked for your supporting information for Poland attacking Germany.  Doing you the courtesy that you do not claim Poland launched an attack on the scale of the Japanese assault, what is your evidence? In what respect would Germany have been unable to defend itself against a Polish border incursion without full scale war and invasion? What relevance do you consider that German invasion plans had and what do you make of the fact that they were executed according to plan, including evidence of immediate actions against Jews? 

Your approach here seeks to manipulate details to raise sweeping generalisations which ignore swathes of fact. If you wish to persuade others of the balanced, evidentiary basis of your discussions on Israel/Palestine then it would help to display that balanced judgement in your rare excursions into other fields.

When you asked after the invented history of WWII I naturally assumed you were familiar with the subject. As you are not familiar with it I decline to "honor" of both educating you and explaining it to you.

Thank you for the waste of bandwidth.

Knowing how ready Nony is to ignore inconvenient questions, I have restored the remainder of my relevant paragraph in the above quotation, in bold.

Nony, if my knowledge of WWII history is so dreadfully lacking then it will be trivial for you to answer, dismissively to offer authoritative references.

Where is your supporting evidence for Poland attacking Germany?

In what respect would the Germany of 1939 have been unable to defend itself against a Polish incursion without full scale war and invasion?

What relevance had German invasion plans had and what do you make of the fact that they were executed according to plan, including evidence of immediate actions against Jews?

And a new questioin, which for the moment you may consider rhetorical while you answer the above:

Are your views on German actions in WWII in any respect influenced by your view of Jews, Jewry or subsequent actions of the established Jewish State?

If  you are unfamiliar with the answers to the repeated questions then you do not know enough about WWII to discuss the calamatous waste of 44 million lives because Britain declared war on Germany.

Jews are a trivial issue in WWII which were not worth even a footnote in Churchill's history of the war. Jews were killing Brits during WWII. WWII had no bearing upon the jewish terrorism campaign against the Brits in Palestine.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

Well Nony, I offer one fact. We all must live in the world that we have. To a great degree, it kind of sucks.

 

International law is a huge mess of conflicting treaties. I grant that the partition happened during the transition from LoN to UNSC. That being said, there is wide spread diplomatic recognition of the right to exist.

 

Granted that the logic behind “right to exist” is not really sound, they do exist under international mandate.

 

Hamas exists under the Hamas charter which has no such recognition. You can trivially google that. The one I have read is on the servers at Yale university. You would be hard pressed to find a sentence that does not mention what god wants.

 

Really though, if you want to unmake the country, all that you need to do is get elected president. Then go to the UNSC and tell them that you have automatic veto right. Done deal. No loger a country.

 

Now you only need to figure out the logistics on the deal. Airfare to get millions of kikes to Nebraska? Permission from Russia to import hundreds of nukes? Got a plan for that?

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


Wonderist
atheist
Wonderist's picture
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2006-03-19
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:I could

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

I could have said everyone in one sentence. Is this your idea of being cute?

I have in fact done the same for the US. It is on my website. Get over it.

You're not helping your case by dismissing my questions. If you are seriously against tyranny in general, and not just Israeli tyranny, then you would be spending at least as much time talking about other tyrannies, like the current American ones. But you don't. Hence I consider the title of this thread suitable to the subject matter. Case closed, as far as I'm concerned.

You: But it's really about X!

Me: Show me how it is about X.

You: I don't have to show you how it's about X. Get over it.

Me: Okay, then.

Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!

Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!


Wonderist
atheist
Wonderist's picture
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2006-03-19
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Edit: To

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Quote:

Edit: To be clear, though, I do not agree with your statement that "The only basis" to be a Jew is by the Torah. Some people, such as Jerry Coyne, call themselves Jews simply because they identify with some of the culture of their Jewish ancestors, but not with their religious beliefs.

These are cultural Jews.

I am not responsible for idiots nor for people who claim they are Napoleon. There is no Jewish culture separate from the religion. ...

There is no jewish culture nor ethnic group. There is only the religion as the sole common thread.

About 50% of self-identified American Jews disagree with you. You are telling them they are not part of a Jewish culture. They are telling you they are. What makes you right and them wrong? Aside from your bigotry? See also Jewish atheism.

Quote:
Quote:
I don't believe Coyne would claim he was 'born' a Jew,

There are no points given for not believing the impossible. So far as I am aware only two conditions of birth are recognized, live and dead although the legal definitions vary from country to country.

Why should anyone, Jew or non-Jew, care what you think?

Quote:
At best you are describing a fraternal organization. Granted an organization of fraternal retards who have no idea what culture means nor of the many unrelated cultures which have real Jews as members but nothing more than a fraternal organization. In any event I do not take the Loyal Order of Raccoons or any other fraternal order seriously.

Tell me, Oh Master of Anthropology, what is culture?

Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!

Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!


Pacioli
atheist
Pacioli's picture
Posts: 64
Joined: 2011-09-17
User is offlineOffline
Stop running so hard, Nony,

Stop running so hard, Nony, we can hardly see you for the dust.

You made a specific claim about Poland attacking Germany to start WWII, suggesting that Germany acted defensively. I have asked you repeatedly for authoritative evidence supporting this claim and each time your response is to say, "well, if you don't know I won't tell you, nyah". You made the claim, nony, you support it.

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
 Jews are a trivial issue in WWII which were not worth even a footnote in Churchill's history of the war.

But nony, your whole point was that Churchill's memoirs were false and unreliable, remember?  So you would say he was probably trying to minimise the issue to cover his inaction on the question of the Jews at the time, would you? You will find it quite useful to work out what you consider your authorities before quoting them in a conflicting fashion.

 

I will grant that you have not yet linked us to any white supremacists or WWII revisionist sites to try to dig your way out of the problem of bellicose Poland with its mighty air force. It must be so tempting for you.


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:
Hamas exists under the Hamas charter which has no such recognition. You can trivially google that. The one I have read is on the servers at Yale university. You would be hard pressed to find a sentence that does not mention what god wants.

Red herring. Hamas does not rule Palestine.

Red herring. You are required to show a religion based claim to the land parallel to the fruitcake leaders of Israel like Netanyahu who is so crazy he quotes the secret messiah rabbe to the UN.

Red herring. Their form of government does not excuse jewish tyranny and is not the business of jewish criminals.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:
That being said, there is wide spread diplomatic recognition of the right to exist.

There is no treaty on national rights. There is a treaty on human rights of which Israel is in criminal violation.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:
That being said, there is wide spread diplomatic recognition of the right to exist.

Granted that the logic behind “right to exist” is not really sound, they do exist under international mandate.

There is no recognition of the right to exist of any country by any other country. If you think otherwise, produce some URLs.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:
I grant that the partition happened during the transition from LoN to UNSC.

As previously noted the partition did not happen as a result of a UN action.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

Well Nony, I offer one fact. We all must live in the world that we have. To a great degree, it kind of sucks.

International law is a huge mess of conflicting treaties.

In this matter the right to indiscriminate attacks on the criminal occupying country is as clear and compelling as the fire bombing of Dresden.

End the criminal occupation.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

natural wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
I could have said everyone in one sentence. Is this your idea of being cute?

I have in fact done the same for the US. It is on my website. Get over it.

You're not helping your case by dismissing my questions. If you are seriously against tyranny in general, and not just Israeli tyranny, then you would be spending at least as much time talking about other tyrannies, like the current American ones. But you don't. Hence I consider the title of this thread suitable to the subject matter. Case closed, as far as I'm concerned.

You: But it's really about X!

Me: Show me how it is about X.

You: I don't have to show you how it's about X. Get over it.

Me: Okay, then.

You should know your tactic has been so well used that it is a joke.

In law the absence of consistent prosecution for violation of a law is not a defense at trial. It is in fact an admission of guilt which is only considered in sentencing and perhaps in an executive pardon. It is not sufficient to overturn much less avoid a conviction. 

You may not like that which is your business not mine. You can only propose this issue if the jewish crimes are being stipulated as matters of fact.

Whatever you may accuse me of being, whatever I really am, the Jews remain war criminals who run a ruthless military dictatorship in the West Bank.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

natural wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Quote:

Edit: To be clear, though, I do not agree with your statement that "The only basis" to be a Jew is by the Torah. Some people, such as Jerry Coyne, call themselves Jews simply because they identify with some of the culture of their Jewish ancestors, but not with their religious beliefs.

These are cultural Jews.

I am not responsible for idiots nor for people who claim they are Napoleon. There is no Jewish culture separate from the religion. ...

There is no jewish culture nor ethnic group. There is only the religion as the sole common thread.

About 50% of self-identified American Jews disagree with you. You are telling them they are not part of a Jewish culture. They are telling you they are. What makes you right and them wrong? Aside from your bigotry? See also Jewish atheism.

As I said I am not responsible for idiots. I cannot explain idiots. I can only observe they are idiots. However if you wish to present an argument that anyone who claims to be a Jew is a Jew by right of assertion you might forward it to Israel, both the government and the rabbinate, neither of which accepts mere self-declaration as evidence.

As I said, you are promoting nothing different from a fraternal organization. Actually not even that much as they ordinarily have ceremonies and dues for membership. Perhaps it is closer to "registered Republican" which does not require actual membership in the party nor even voting in the primary or for a Republican. (Insert any other US party if Republican bothers you.)

Yes I know of the clan culture that results in people who have no sense of identity or self-worth independent of that culture. No one has it easy in life. It is up to them to grow up and become independent humans who can survive in the world without a group identity. There are real Jews who are perfectly capable of living without group identity and who are in fact annoyed by those who cannot. Try reading Israeli newspapers and find every accomplishment by an individual Jew presented as a group achievement. Mention of Newton's religion in connection with his scientific work would barely rise above tacky yet for Einstein mention of his religion is almost a requirement.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I don't believe Coyne would claim he was 'born' a Jew,

There are no points given for not believing the impossible. So far as I am aware only two conditions of birth are recognized, live and dead although the legal definitions vary from country to country.

Why should anyone, Jew or non-Jew, care what you think?

Why do you assume retards have legitimate thought processes? (Who is this Coyne character?)

Quote:
Quote:
At best you are describing a fraternal organization. Granted an organization of fraternal retards who have no idea what culture means nor of the many unrelated cultures which have real Jews as members but nothing more than a fraternal organization. In any event I do not take the Loyal Order of Raccoons or any other fraternal order seriously./quote]

Tell me, Oh Master of Anthropology, what is culture?

Why would you expect me to educate you personally when any decent textbook on the subject will explain it to you?

Now to repeat

Quote:
Do you think jewish Yemenis do Russian circle dances singing Hava Negilah to the tune of Irving Berlin? If he wants to claim Yiddishe that is Slavic not Jewish. Or does he ululate instead of applaud like jewish Yemenis and jewish Arabs?

Or are you one of those who thinks the dance and lyrics and tune were invented by Moses? The first tune of Hava Negilah had the tempo of a dirge throughout. The circle dance, the tempo of the current tune are all Slavic as was Berlin a Yiddishe composer. This is just an example of a common nonsense belief that the dance and such are somehow jewish going back to biblical times when it is all late 19th c. from the emancipation of eastern European Jews.

Were you aware the Bar Mitzvah was invented in the late 19th c. based solely upon the gospel story of Jesus in the temple? At about that same time the location of the Herodian temple being on the "temple mount" was invented. However if you disagree with either you are invited to present earlier references. There is a century worth of English language material as a consequence of the success of the first crusade and an English king ruling Jerusalem.

After you have done your homework and learn what culture is get back to me.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Pacioli wrote:

Stop running so hard, Nony, we can hardly see you for the dust.

You made a specific claim about Poland attacking Germany to start WWII, suggesting that Germany acted defensively. I have asked you repeatedly for authoritative evidence supporting this claim and each time your response is to say, "well, if you don't know I won't tell you, nyah". You made the claim, nony, you support it.

I made a specific claim that Orwell was using his WWII war job experience to describe what Winston did in 1984. You asked for examples. I gave them to you. You then attempted to divert the discussion. The only connection to what I posted is a reference to the flimsy evidence that Poland did not instigate the proximate cross border incident. Your only on-topic response to that is the validity of the evidence.

The only comments I made as to the validity of the war were regarding Britain starting it to continue its enslavement of 1/4 to 1/3 the peoples of the world in the same sense that it accused Germany of merely attempting to do.

If you really wish to discuss you must start a new thread. However if you demonstrate your present level of ignorance I see no reason to participate in it. If in fact you know the subject you know there were some 15 years of prior border incidents. You also know proportionate response only became of matter of international treaty after WWII. If you do not know those things then you are not qualified to discuss the subject.

And that is the way it is.

Quote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
 Jews are a trivial issue in WWII which were not worth even a footnote in Churchill's history of the war.

But nony, your whole point was that Churchill's memoirs were false and unreliable, remember?

From what misrepresentation of what I posted do you construct that lie? Why is lying the best you can do? Why are you a liar?

Quote:

Juvenile atheist.

Quote:
So you would say he was probably trying to minimise the issue to cover his inaction on the question of the Jews at the time, would you? You will find it quite useful to work out what you consider your authorities before quoting them in a conflicting fashion.

I will grant that you have not yet linked us to any white supremacists or WWII revisionist sites to try to dig your way out of the problem of bellicose Poland with its mighty air force. It must be so tempting for you.

Is this your way of promoting the jewish version of WWII history where it was all about saving the Jews? Even the bomb Auschwitz BS falls apart when even today there is not a single description of the location of the Auschwitz "gas chambers" as out in back of the crematoria and plenty of other locations to choose from from surviving true locations. What could they have bombed without a target? Railroad tracks were impossible to seriously damage in those days, and very difficult these days for that matter. But those ignorant of military technology will prattle on and on and on and on ...

Why would anyone consider Jews any kind of a special group? Anyone but Jews of course. It is just another religion like the Druids or the followers of Wodin or Baal. If anything his priority would have been Anglicans. There was nothing to cover. Religions undergo extinction events. Who mourns Adonis? No one misses them when they are gone.

That would be particularly true of Judaism which was primitive by the standards of the religions of the civilized world when it first appeared in the 2nd c. BC. The only reason it has survived at all is that it was given protected status by Christians and Muslims. Otherwise there would be none. Christians treated Jews better than any other religion and if you don't believe it ask the next Druid or Albagensian you meet.

None of us atheists gives a rat's ass if Judaism continues or not any more than we care if any other religion continues or not. I know it is not fair Jews were singled out. In the words of Jimmy Carter, Life isn't fair.

Let us remember the issue is the jewish tyranny over the Palestinians. It is an ongoing atrocity founded in the Yahweh cult called Judaism which first appears in history as a creation of the Septuagint.

So lets keep it on topic. If you want to discuss something else start a new topic. But please demonstrate you know what you are talking about if you expect me to contribute to it.

Otherwise this thread is to discuss jewish war crimes.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
Bill Clinton of all people

The former president gave a few comments recently.

The first was, Israel got everything it said it wanted before it could make peace and then when it got those things it invented new demands. This was in reference to the new demand to be recognized as a religious state.

 

The second was, the world knows the US Congress is the most pro-Israel parliamentary body in the world and there is no reason to prove it again. This was in reference to the refusal to release $200 million in aid to Palestine unless it withdraws its meaningless request for UN membership.

As expected other donors have stepped in to replace the money thus further reducing US influence on the Palestinians and giving that influence to the donors, the Arab league.

But then we are left with the obvious question, if it is meaningless then why all the fuss? I can see withdrawing an amount equal to the cost of the UN bid because it was wasted on foolishness but not a punitive response to something that means nothing. Does this response prove it is meaningful and important? But if meaningless why do it?

 

Following Bill Clinton was Angela Merkel who told Netanyahu in no uncertain terms that his announced construction in occupied Jerusalem risked Germany voting for Palestine admission to the UN.

In response the religious lunatic Netanyahu said that Gilo has always been considered a part of Jerusalem in all the negotiations. So benighted is he by religious fervor that he failed to notice east Jerusalem has never been considered part of Israel in any negotiation. And he thinks Merkel won't notice. What a tool.

 

In the philosophical sense of politics one can look at Israel as an example of an ideology trapped by Dreyfuss and based upon the premise that Jews can never assimilate into Europe -- antisemitic unless a zionist says it and it is the premise of zionism. Such nonsensical political constructs cannot live forever. They feed upon themselves and disappear.

 

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Wonderist
atheist
Wonderist's picture
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2006-03-19
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:natural

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

natural wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
I could have said everyone in one sentence. Is this your idea of being cute?

I have in fact done the same for the US. It is on my website. Get over it.

You're not helping your case by dismissing my questions. If you are seriously against tyranny in general, and not just Israeli tyranny, then you would be spending at least as much time talking about other tyrannies, like the current American ones. But you don't. Hence I consider the title of this thread suitable to the subject matter. Case closed, as far as I'm concerned.

You: But it's really about X!

Me: Show me how it is about X.

You: I don't have to show you how it's about X. Get over it.

Me: Okay, then.

You should know your tactic has been so well used that it is a joke.

In law the absence of consistent prosecution blah blah blah

Nony, you claimed:

Nony wrote:

First Zionism is equated with tyranny.

I request that be changed.

Now Israel is equated with tyranny.

This amounts to a claim that this collective thread's topic is accurately described as "Nony vs. tyranny".

You made a claim. You provided no evidence for your claim. Claim rejected. Get over it.

Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!

Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!


Wonderist
atheist
Wonderist's picture
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2006-03-19
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:natural

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

natural wrote:

About 50% of self-identified American Jews disagree with you. You are telling them they are not part of a Jewish culture. They are telling you they are. What makes you right and them wrong? Aside from your bigotry? See also Jewish atheism.

As I said I am not responsible for idiots. I cannot explain idiots. I can only observe they are idiots.

So, Jerry Coyne is an idiot? Albert Einstein is an idiot?

<little radar thingies rotating frantically>

Danger! Danger A_Nony_Mouse! Credibility rapidly approaching zero! Danger!

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
At best you are describing a fraternal organization. Granted an organization of fraternal retards who have no idea what culture means nor of the many unrelated cultures which have real Jews as members but nothing more than a fraternal organization. In any event I do not take the Loyal Order of Raccoons or any other fraternal order seriously.

Tell me, Oh Master of Anthropology, what is culture?

Why would you expect me to educate you personally when any decent textbook on the subject will explain it to you?

Apparently, you missed the part of my quote of you which I bolded.

The point is not to educate me.

The point is to show that you are not one of those retards.

Quote:
Now to repeat

Quote:
Do you think jewish Yemenis do Russian circle dances singing Hava Negilah to the tune of Irving Berlin? If he wants to claim Yiddishe that is Slavic not Jewish. Or does he ululate instead of applaud like jewish Yemenis and jewish Arabs?

Or are you one of those who thinks the dance and lyrics and tune were invented by Moses? The first tune of Hava Negilah blah blah blah

Simple question: Where are Matzah balls mentioned in the Torah?

Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!

Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13660
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:The

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

The former president gave a few comments recently.

The first was, Israel got everything it said it wanted before it could make peace and then when it got those things it invented new demands. This was in reference to the new demand to be recognized as a religious state.

 

The second was, the world knows the US Congress is the most pro-Israel parliamentary body in the world and there is no reason to prove it again. This was in reference to the refusal to release $200 million in aid to Palestine unless it withdraws its meaningless request for UN membership.

As expected other donors have stepped in to replace the money thus further reducing US influence on the Palestinians and giving that influence to the donors, the Arab league.

But then we are left with the obvious question, if it is meaningless then why all the fuss? I can see withdrawing an amount equal to the cost of the UN bid because it was wasted on foolishness but not a punitive response to something that means nothing. Does this response prove it is meaningful and important? But if meaningless why do it?

 

Following Bill Clinton was Angela Merkel who told Netanyahu in no uncertain terms that his announced construction in occupied Jerusalem risked Germany voting for Palestine admission to the UN.

In response the religious lunatic Netanyahu said that Gilo has always been considered a part of Jerusalem in all the negotiations. So benighted is he by religious fervor that he failed to notice east Jerusalem has never been considered part of Israel in any negotiation. And he thinks Merkel won't notice. What a tool.

 

In the philosophical sense of politics one can look at Israel as an example of an ideology trapped by Dreyfuss and based upon the premise that Jews can never assimilate into Europe -- antisemitic unless a zionist says it and it is the premise of zionism. Such nonsensical political constructs cannot live forever. They feed upon themselves and disappear.

 

 

Israel got everything it wanted.

DUH, because they are reacting to people who want to wipe them off the face of the planet. AND AGAIN, I am NOT talking about all Palestinians, JUST the nutcases they put in power.

AGAIN, you keep blindly siding with one side when BOTH are ignoring this situation as being a human condition problem and confuse labels and borders and religion as being more important than solving what is in reality NATURAL human reaction to threats.

BOTH SIDES and again, this problem will not be solved by focusing on labels and borders and religion. YOU are just as guilty and as much a part of the problem as you rightfully condemn Israel of.

There simply has to be, to solve this problem, more and more people ON BOTH SIDES who are willing to put aside labels and boarders and see human suffering for what it is. Suffering is not something any label in human history has any fucking right to claim a monopoly on.

YOU are just as nuts as any Jew who thinks that when their own are killed that somehow the suffering of the other side is less human.

A HUMAN IS A HUMAN IS A HUMAN IS A HUMAN IS A HUMAN.

MY ONLY problem with supporting Palestine is what they WOULD put in place if given a nation RIGHT NOW. IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF

IF they lose their theocratic "democracy" idea, and move to a secular pluralistic idea, then AND ONLY THEN would they have my full support. SO go work on that with them and get them to that point and I will side with them.

I AM pissed off with Israels bullying and land grabs and they have as much to be blamed for in this needless conflict. BUT, they are much more in line with the west in the idea of secular governments. I DO wish they would take their Jewish gang symbol off their flag and make it neutral like the American flag, not that they will.

 

BUT RIGHT NOW there are NOT enough Palestinians willing to reject their Islamic ideology, at least not enough that are currently in power.

THE KEY to solving this problem is for BOTH sides to skip the labels and borders and religion and see the other as merely fellow human beings. WHEN you get enough people on both sides to do this, YOU WONT need two states. And even if there were two states, IF both are secular and pluralistic, it would be more like CA and NY, and not US VS THEM.

THAT WONT be the case currently under the conditions right now. It is far to tribal and religious ON BOTH SIDES.

My advise to you if you want the west to support Palestine, AND there most certainly ARE individuals and secular groups EVERYWHERE that have Palestinian roots, and Jewish support, GET THOSE PEOPLE IN POWER, and get rid of the religious nuts that rule right now.

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Answers

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

Well Nony, I offer one fact. We all must live in the world that we have. To a great degree, it kind of sucks.

International law is a huge mess of conflicting treaties.

In this matter the right to indiscriminate attacks on the criminal occupying country is as clear and compelling as the fire bombing of Dresden.

End the criminal occupation.

 

agreed - by removing both of the criminal occupiers.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Pacioli
atheist
Pacioli's picture
Posts: 64
Joined: 2011-09-17
User is offlineOffline
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:I made a

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
I made a specific claim that Orwell was using his WWII war job experience to describe what Winston did in 1984. You asked for examples. I gave them to you. You then attempted to divert the discussion.

Well, let us see exactly what Nony said.

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
 Orwell's wartime job was the same as Winston's. What he was describing was not the future but the situation in England during WWII. Big Brother was Churchill. Everything Winston did Orwell did during the war.

The big joke on the rest of us is the history of the war he helped invent is still the official history of the war.

My emphasis. Nony made the explicit claim. I asked for cases then for evidence. The rest of Nony's post comprises attempts to get me to disprove his claims for which he advances only assertions, no evidence, while launching ad hominems for distraction. Burden of proof remains with Nony.

I have made no pro or anti Jewish claims so that blithering by Nony also fails, nor does he have the slightest knowledge of what I do or do not know about WWII, Germany or military technology because, again, I made no assertions, only questions which remain without credible answers. Claims whilst ignorant of facts appear to be Nony's special province.

Quote:
... there is not a single description of the location of the Auschwitz "gas chambers" as out in back of the crematoria and plenty of other locations to choose from from surviving true locations

Stop spluttering, Nony. It affects your writing and your keyboard may get wet.

I agree not to pursue WWII within this thread as I have probably pushed the digression far enough. My purpose was to expose Nony's practices of making claims for which he will and indeed can advance no credible evidence, and his apparent tendency to revisionism with regard to anything touching on Jews. I consider that job done. 


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

jcgadfly wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:
Well Nony, I offer one fact. We all must live in the world that we have. To a great degree, it kind of sucks.

International law is a huge mess of conflicting treaties.

In this matter the right to indiscriminate attacks on the criminal occupying country is as clear and compelling as the fire bombing of Dresden.

End the criminal occupation.

agreed - by removing both of the criminal occupiers.

Jews are the only criminals in this matter. Hang 'em high. Netanyahu is about the same weight at Goerring. A short rope will do the world some good.

Are still harping on that nonsense you posted about Judeans being separate from the Palestinians?

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
A_Nony_Mouse's picture
Posts: 2880
Joined: 2008-04-23
User is offlineOffline
.

Brian37 wrote:

THE KEY to solving this problem is for BOTH sides to skip the labels and borders and religion and see the other as merely fellow human beings. WHEN you get enough people on both sides to do this, YOU WONT need two states. And even if there were two states, IF both are secular and pluralistic, it would be more like CA and NY, and not US VS THEM.

THAT WONT be the case currently under the conditions right now. It is far to tribal and religious ON BOTH SIDES.

My advise to you if you want the west to support Palestine, AND there most certainly ARE individuals and secular groups EVERYWHERE that have Palestinian roots, and Jewish support, GET THOSE PEOPLE IN POWER, and get rid of the religious nuts that rule right now.

Such heartless, ruthless criminals have no right to claim to be human. They show not one single sign of being human. They show no remorse for their crimes. They show no compassion for their victims. They go out of their way to increase the suffering of their victims. They raise their children to be heartless and cruel. They gleefully indulge in collective punishment. They take pleasure in humiliating their victims.

That is what you defend. It makes you no better than they.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml