You are cherry picking. How you can justify the support of suicide bombers you might as well support 9/11 because Bin Ladin sold the idea that Westerners were occupying his land. If you don't support his theocratic ideology, then you should NOT support Palestine, because what they would set up is a theocratic democracy, not a pluralistic secular democracy. It would merely be another Iran. Voting alone does not constitute pluralism or secularism.

NOW IF IF IF IF IF IF, those in Palestine who DO, and their are, support pluralism and a secular government want my support, then THEY have to put people in power that reflect that, other than the ones they have now WHO DONT.

 

You want this so desperately to be all one sided when it is not. You have two childish pricks fighting over toys, unfortunately it is getting HUMANS killed on both sides. But whatever wrong Israel does will never get me to support what Palestine WOULD set up if given the chance.

Now, if I thought for one second Palestine would end up like Greece or Turkey and become westernized I WOULD support them, AND I DO support CURRENTLY any individual in Palestine that DOES want that. But their collective ideology that holds current power now I do not support.

But you are out of your mind to think they would, CURRENTLY set up a secular government. THEY WOULD NOT.

If you want to blame anyone BLAME your own side's leaders. If they were not theocratic dickheads bent on the destruction of Israel, the rest of the world Israel would not be able to make their stupid excuses for their own violence.

And you are an idiot if you think that all Israelis support what their government does. They simply get pushed to default to a position, much like Christians will laugh at other sects but when faced with an atheist they will gang up on us.

Palestine suffers from the same gang mentality. They will side with the nuts, not because all of them always want to, but because CURRENTLY that is the only hand feeding them.

But you AND far too many Israelis suffer from the same childish bullshit. Until you stop seeing it as a border or label or "us vs them" issue and see it from a human condition issue FROM BOTH SIDES, you will not understand what I am saying.

It all boils down to no one likes getting punched in the face. Your side doesn't like it, and Israelis don't like it. So please tell me how the fuck finger pointing solves shit? You want them to stop their violence but you justify yours?

Israelis have mothers, sons, daughter's family and friends. Palestinians have mothers, sons, daughters, family and friends. SO PLEASE TELL ME WHY other than a stupid war based on "god gave me this land", why the fuck you and they are having such a fucking hard time seeing each other as the same species?

WHY THE FUCK DON'T YOU BOTH KNOCK IT OFF? I am no more impressed with your pissing contest than I am Israeli's pissing contest.

"Look what they're doing to me" as if death is special because of a fucking stupid boarder or label. Israelis use the same fucking excuse "Look at what they are doing to me" As if Jews owned the sole rights to human suffering. As long as this bullshit has been going on, I don't give one fuck who thinks their suffering is special. Neither side is special and both sides are wallowing in the same tribal violence that is sucking the entire planet into their stupid beef.

Until you and Israel understands what I am saying neither is going to stop. Both sides display the worst that humanity has to offer.

 

 

 

 

 

I do not know how it works in Canada but in the US lobbyists for foreign countries must in fact register as such with the federal government. None of the US organizations I have listed are registered. Even AIPAC is not registered claiming to be purely a Jewish advocacy group.

But if you have evidence they are in fact lobbyists I am certain the Attorney General of the US would be interested in your evidence. If they are lobbyists and fail to register it is worth five years plus $500,000 fine for each individual lobbyist.

Is it not wonderful when people cannot have it both ways?

 

Change your sig, get off the jew hating non-stop, give us some indication that you are willing to be logical on this one topic of which you are obsessed with, and we we will bend over backwards to accomadate you.

I love the Jews, you hate them.  Let's debate this difference of opinion.   But they're not going to just give you a free hand to outright slander anyone.

Bring it, you slimey bastard.

Pfft. As if a few little "rules" stop lobbyists from being lobbyists.

ps, please don't take my condescending manner as an insult to you, as I direct it towards lobbyists and the systems so broken that one who has sufficient $ can lobby for anything without fitting the legal definition of lobbying. Now that we've returned to civility I'd rather not backslide.

So General Heydrich was merely occupying Poland, no? And the Ukraine was merely occupied. What a strange mindset you have.

However the 4th Geneva convention, you must have read it by now, as well as the 5th Hague convention defines the nature of an occupation for it to be called an occupation. To sum it up the administration of the occupied territory must be administered solely to the benefit of the occupied people except in matters of military necessity. Israel is in gross violation of so many of the provisions of these conventions that, as I have suggested, they might as well be using the prohibitions as a checklist as to what to do next.

One of the violations are the squattertowns, which are also criminal under the Nuremberg precedent. Israel acknowledged the applicability of the conventions when it defined them as necessary for the defense of Israel from Jordan -- no matter only people ignorant of military requirements were stupid enough to believe that. Israel has has a peace treat with Jordan for 14 years or so. Therefore that excuse is gone. Therefore Israel acknowledges their squattertowns are criminal under Geneva IV.

Having established Israel's actions are not in accordance with an occupation then it is not an occupation.

For the record since the peace with Jordan Israel ceased the military defense BS and declared the lands were disputed not occupied. You should stay abreast of matters instead of reciting claims Israel has not made in 14 years.

As Israel claims they are disputed and as the Palestinians are ruled by the IDF it is clearly a military dictatorship. Are you claiming Palestinians have the right to vote in Israeli elections? The IDF reports to the civilian government of Israel does it not? Therefore is not the Prime Minister of Israel the ruthless dictator of the West Bank? If not, who is responsible for the arbitrary and capricious diktats of the military dicator?

So you are way out of date resurrecting the old BS that it is an occupation. You claim it is an occupation has been contradictd by Israel for 14 years.

And yet you pretend to post in defense of the Hutus?

The US does not finance Hutu machetes. It does finance white phosphorus for Jews to use on civilians.

 

As you do not know the meaning of occupation used in the sense of the occupied West Bank you can look it up. When you do learn the meaning you will learn that is a nonsense statement.

I also note you have to go as far as bin Laden to find someone jews are no better than.

I have established the Jews are the theocratic ideologues in this matter. Let me add from Netanyahu's UN speech

I have openly challenged all you izziehuggers and Hutu-lovers to produce similar religious crap from Palestinian political leaders and there has been nothing but silence. Not even an admission that the claim was a lie, which it was and remains a lie.

So here I am facing nothing but lies about the Palestinians from people who appear to expect a civil discussion but who do nothing but repeat the same lies over and over as though they were true.

As noted elsewhere. Their form of government is their business. Your "if Hutus don't slaughter the Tutsis someone else will" excuse for the Hutus is really quite pathetic. Since they are going to live under a tyrannical dictatorship anyway it might as well be a jewish tyrannical dictatorship.

If the Hutus become Jews will you defend them too? Will jewish Hutus get to exploit the natural resources of the West Bank too? That would be a war crime for everyone but the Jews according to you.

Really amazing here that self-declared atheists go to such great lengths to lie for and defend jewish religious crazies in the face it clear and present war crimes that are not in dispute.

Remember the subsumed post thread which was the REAL reason Israel fears Palestine being a recognized state? That it will be brought to justice before the International Criminal Court. That will indict every living senior Isaeli politician who is still alive including Sharon if he ever wakes up.

I cited Israeli officials who in a moment of stress blurted out the truth. State or no state makes no difference to a lawful occupation. It only matters to a criminal occupation. It only matters to the crimes you are defending.

Got relatives living as squatters in the West Bank do you? Or just ordinary criminals living in Israel. No one gets to pick their relatives. You are not obliged to defend them. And if they are believers, no one blames you. Lots of people have crazy relatives. Again, you didn't pick them. No blame.

Their form of government does not justify despotic, thieving, murderous rule by Jews. Those Hutus really are fine people, no?

But you do defend the murderous jewish dictatorship over the Palestinians. No one is asking you stick your nose into Palestinian political affairs. I am merely asking you stop lying about it so blatantly in public discussion. Their form of government does not justify jewish despotism and theft and murder.

That is a pathetic approach to excusing jewish tyranny. You sure must love those Hutus.

They currenty HAVE a secular government. Israel has a government run by religious fruitcakes. Israel is currently run by rednecks who have implemented a Jim Crow regime in Israel and a tyranny elsewhere. You defend Israel's ethnic cleansing in occupied Jerusalem.

You are defending the same things Nazis did.

I don't have a side in this. I simply object to lies being told about the Palestinians to defend jewish war criminals.

I know for a fact that some 1.5M Israelis do not support their government's war crimes. But that didn't save Dresden. The good Germans were treated the same as the rest.

Lets see. I ask for the evidence. You provide none. You repeat the same allegation {REPEAT}

Are you telling me you now see bin Laden's side of 9/11?

But I do see both sides. I see the Jews on one side and the victims of the Jews on the other. They did not volunteer to be victimized by the Jews did they? Are you going to claim that next?

Jews CHOSE to go to Palestine. They CHOSE to expel the native population else they would have lost the first election. They CHOSE criminalize the occupation of the West Bank. Palestinians chose none of the above. Jews can CHOOSE to end the occupation at any time. Jews could have chosen to end the occupation any time in the last 44 years. They could have chosen NOT to criminalize the occupation.

It is all a matter of free choice. That Jews suffer from their own choices does not make their chosen victims responsible for melodramatic jewish suffering.

The god gave part is soley for jewish crazies. You know that. You know for a fact it is not a Palestinian issue. You deliberately misrepresent the situation. It is a matter of a bunch of well financed Europeans choosing to go to Palestine to knowingly cause all the problems. Free choice. Remember?

I did not expect to impress you although it appears using the same words that apply to other tyrannies to describe the jewish tyranny has made an impression on you or at least on your caps lock key.

END the criminal occupation!

End the criminal occupation!

End the criminal occupation.

When a bank robber is confronted by an armed guard, killing the guard is not
justified as an act of self-defense.
	-- The Iron Webmaster, 4347
 http://www.giwersworld.org a1
Mon Sep 26 00:59:07 EDT 2011

 

Excuse me but the occupation is a present day, continuing and on-going crime. You arguing against self-defense while a crime is being committed.

Not even the most dedicated pacifists declare self-defense in the course of an attack is wrong.

Why do you?

End the criminal occupation.

 

I find it odd your "defense" of Jews supporting Israel is to claim they are all federal felons.

 

 

Jews are a religion not a race.

The only basis to claim a person is a Jew by birth is in the Torah. If you accept the Torah you are not an atheist. No atheist cam claim to have been born a Jew. That is a theistic assertion.

Anti-religion is the purpose of this website. Israel is an outstanding example of present day crimes in the name of religion. Anti any and all religions without regard is what this website is here for. Or is it only anti-Christian and -Muslim? Since when to Jews get a free ride? Get rid of the foundations of Judaism and both Christianity and Islam crumble. Attack Judaism. It is the most cost productive.

If people do not want to be horrible examples they should not CHOOSE to be horrible examples.

End the criminal occupation now.

 

The Palestinians cannot end the occupation. Only Jews can end the occupation.

End the criminal occupation real soon.

 

 

 

weird about the way the tone of these arguments tends...

Really strange, no? But defending any religion for any reason is a theist position. The defender cannot be an atheist. That the supposed atheist defends only Judaism leads directly to the closet Jew description.

 

Please move quickly to start your thread as a spirited defense of Judaism. I look forward to it. As I said, a very strange thing to find on an atheist website.

It is easier, simpler and almost trivial to take down Judaism in comparison to Christianity and Islam. Or were you hoping I would start it? The ball is in your court. Lets see the best a Muslim hater can do.

 

i am curious to know what you have in mind as the war history invented.

That's just it, the jews are not doing anything "horrible".   Palestinian terrorist groups intentionally nestles their operations right in the middle of their civilian population and start firing rockets or sniping at Israelies.  When the Jews defend themselves of course some civilians are going to get killed.

Why?   Because the fucktard Palestinian terrorists are right in the middle of the civilians.  Then when the unavoidable civilian casualties occur those same terrorists scream, "The jews are attacking civilians!"  Then quit hiding behind women and children you pieces of shit.

This is the BIG difference between the "atrocities" the Palestinians are making compared to the Israelites.

The Palestinians engineer the death of their own people to further their goals.  The Jews are just defending themselves by firing back in the area they are being attacked from.  This is how ANY Palestinian deaths occur by the hands of the Jews.

The Palestinians on the other hand target Jewish civilians who are not attacking them.   Firing rockets into their homes or blowing up buses.

The all in one thread subject be changed from the misleading anti-zionist to anti-dictatorship or anti-tyranny.

I hope this is not a bother.

 

Keeping you honest is never a bother

The idea that Germany started the war in Europe when it was Britain and France which declared war on Germany but not on Russia for the same invasion of Poland is a reasonable place to start. No one forced B&F to selectively declare war on Germany. It was their free choice to do so.

And the usual excuse Britain uses is a mutual defense treaty with Poland. No one forced Britain to honor it. And although it was an announced intention to create such a treaty in the spring of 1939 it was not signed until seven days before the war on Poland started.

The entire claim that Germany fabricated the Polish cross border attack on Germany is based solely upon the statement of one German sargeant in 1945 without corroborating evidence. There is no other basis for it NOR was there before his statement in 1945 yet Britain was claiming it was faked from September 1939.

And Poland was a military dictatorship at the time the war started. Some lies are by ommission. So where comes the claim that is was for the freedom of the Polish people?

Both Russia and Germany reclaimed territory taken from them as a consequence of WWI which had been part of their countries for centuries prior. If WWI had given the New England states to Canada, damned right the US would have reclaimed them at the earliest possible moment. Sorry but I don't see the problem. Perhaps you can explain it to me.

It is similar here. No one mentions that Jews went to Palestine with the intention of getting rid of the Palestinians but why would they go to Palestine just have have zionism shit-canned in the first election? They were outnumbered four to one in any election. It would have failed.

 

So do the Jews. They have said so many times. Why do you insist upon ignoring their own admissions of doing the same thing?

By WWII standards the entire civilian population is a legitimate target even for nuking so please drop that nonsense. WWII is the gold standard.

As you know Israel has its IDF among its civilian population no different from your claim that terrorists are among the civilian population. Why do you pretend not to know this?

Israelites are a fictional people invented in the Septuagint.

That said, you know there is no difference between the two. The IDF is always among the civilian population without uniforms but at least one in four in any group of civilians is a lawful military target for the same reason Israel gives. You know this. Do you not see how your hatred of 1.2 billion people clouds your mind?

And the IDF kills its own to prevent them from being taken prisoner. Old news in Israel.

So you say dropping a one ton bomb on an apartment building in the middle of the night is just a random response?

As you know buses are a military asset and thus a lawful target. Israelis should stop using buses if they want to be safe from lawful attack.

That one ton bomb in the middle of the night was hardly a response to an active attack. It murdered 18 civilians including 5 children for the stated purpose of murdering one suspect. That is jews for you. They claim the right to kill anyone who might grow up to harm Jews.

 

And you equating Israel with tyranny is more than I could have hoped for from the PTB.

 

Then you got what you wanted (sorta). I would have left it at "Nony vs. Jews" as you tend to equate all Jews with the government of Israel.  But I'm not one of the powers-that be.

All criminal activity is about avoiding rules. The smart ones only get caught when they make a mistake.
I think if the powers that be really wanted to make a case, there is nothing to stop them. The reason they don't is effectively because they would be fighting public support for Israel. It is similar to how Canada, before 9/11, allowed charitable donations to hamas. There was public support for the Palestinians, and it took a brief period of the people being overly concerned about the tactics Palestinians use (and their similarity to al qaidas) for hamas to put on the list of terrorist organisations. Should Israel ever fuck up so bad that the US ends its official support of Israel, you will see a lot more scrutiny of Israeli supporters.

The principal reason for my question above was to see whether you would stick to the subject or turn your answer back to Jews and Palestine. You did the latter. I wonder why no-one is surprised?

Anyway, a few minor comments on the blinkered vision you exposed in your direct answers.

Oh, wow. This is an impressive reading of history, reducing everything to "he dunnit first", and "they were not forced to declare war on Gernany".

For the record, Germany invaded Poland on 1 September, Britain declared war on Germany on 3 September and Russia declared war on Poland on 17 September, by which time Germany already controlled the country and Russia was entering to pick up its agreed part. By this time Britain understood where lay its primary danger, and it was not Russia. Incidentally on the sources I have checked, Britain also failed to declare war on Czechoslovakia which also formally declared war on Poland.

Hell no, who would be forced to honour a treaty? And it was signed only a week before the invasion having been pledged less than a year before? Clearly, anyone can tell from this that it should not have been honoured.

It is interesting to watch how you make it up as you go along to suit your desired results, Nony.

The supporting information for Poland attacking Germany being what, and of what relevance?

Poland was a failed democracy, effectively a one-party State, well before WW2. So what? Do you really think Britain and France had no idea of their legitimate strategic interests by that time?

Straight after you explain to me why America has not been handed back to the Native Americans, or Australia back to Aboriginals. Attempting to place fixed borders in Europe, given their history, is always matter of agreement, not of right. Look at the Balkan mess as recently as twenty years ago.

A sane person could always hope for agreement rather than strident assertion of rights.

So when people here show you that there are Jews who disagree with the Israeli government and you ignore the fact that these people exist as you have in this post, what else should I think? Are they lying because they disagree with what you think about them?

You'd best not ask me to pay too much attention to what you post because I'll keep pointing out when you drop turds like you have here.

I see now - the Jews that stand against their government (and contradict your assertions) are the "fake Jews" so they don't really exist...