The Real Route out of Africa

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The Real Route out of Africa

For decades I have had a problem with a nagging detail of the "out of Africa" idea. When people were leaving there was an ice age and the south end of the Red Sea was dry land. For millions of years before that ice ages were off and on. Orangutans also left Africa. How hard could it have been? I finally got the idea in one place.

www.giwersworld.org/science/MIGRATION/hss-migration.phtml

One of the "problems" with the Palestine route out of Africa is the hand-waving required to explain how caucasians successfully re-entered North Africa and expelling their ancestors back south of the Sahara. With this route it did not happen that way. Black humans did not get north of the Sahara before caucasians arrived. For those who need a teaser, here is the conclusion. Please at leat scan the article before objecting.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

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I've often thought that

I've often thought that about the sea levels and the early migration to Australia, as well. I'm also stumped as to why there isn't much talk about an exodus along the coastlines, which may have had nearly all of the evidence submerged by now. My guess is that's in fact the reason: The evidence is inaccessible, under water, and so you can't make a solid theory without that evidence.

I wouldn't be surprised if the future findings of DNA hybridization show that a southern exodus played a major/primary role.

The only thing that bothers me in your article is when you talk about 'caucasians' as if they are somehow 'versus' the 'black humans'. Or maybe I'm overly suspicious? What was the significance of that remark? Why do you consider this hypothesis important in regards to the notion of 'Palestine'? (Basically, what's the connection to 'Jews' which I'm guessing you're trying to make?)

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natural wrote:
I've often thought that about the sea levels and the early migration to Australia, as well. I'm also stumped as to why there isn't much talk about an exodus along the coastlines, which may have had nearly all of the evidence submerged by now. My guess is that's in fact the reason: The evidence is inaccessible, under water, and so you can't make a solid theory without that evidence.

On the link I have a map showing the land with the ice age sea levels. People would walk almost all the way to Australia and the only gaps are so small they could sea land in the distance.

Quote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the future findings of DNA hybridization show that a southern exodus played a major/primary role.

BTW: Not only coastal migration but well inland. It was only around 4000 years ago that the Sahara reached its current size. Before that it was grassland with some forests. That was also true of what is now the Arabian desert. However there is not nearly enough arkie data from these areas to begin to make a guess as to how they affected migration if at all.

Quote:
The only thing that bothers me in your article is when you talk about 'caucasians' as if they are somehow 'versus' the 'black humans'. Or maybe I'm overly suspicious? What was the significance of that remark? Why do you consider this hypothesis important in regards to the notion of 'Palestine'? (Basically, what's the connection to 'Jews' which I'm guessing you're trying to make?)

When Blacks decide what they want to be called other than Black, let me know. Gandhi was "blacker" than many Africans and also caucasian. I could revert to more anthropologically correct terms but that would lose much of the audience. If you have a better naming convention let me know. When it comes to upper and lower Egypt and north and south of the Sahara there are clearly different phenotypes of humans. In fact there is the one caucasian to the north and two Negroid bordering the south. There are in fact seven different Negroid phenotypes identified in Africa while only one caucasian phenotype from India to Ireland.

I didn't mention Jews in the article although Jews were a subset of Palestinians back when they were a local Yahweh cult. Palestine is the oldest known historical term for the region on the asian side of the northern land bridge with Africa dating as a regional name from the mid-5th c. BC. Judeans do not appear in history until the early 1st c. BC and they are members of the city-state of Jerusalem so they are much too late and geographically limited to be considered as a naming convention. Got a better idea let me know.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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It's been done.  Journey of

It's been done.  Journey of Man by Spencer Wells - both a PBS special and a book.  The book has more detail, but the TV thing is okay.

 

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cj wrote:
It's been done.  Journey of Man by Spencer Wells - both a PBS special and a book.  The book has more detail, but the TV thing is okay.

Thanks. I think I have found it. I'll give it a watch and comment. But if this is the one I remember then it is genetic not geographic and does have the route from Africa at the north end rather than the southern end of the Red Sea, in those days better called the Red Valley.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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natural wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the future findings of DNA hybridization show that a southern exodus played a major/primary role.

 

Actually, they have already done the genetic work. With only minor corrections, what Nony is saying is fairly well supported.

 

The Gulf of Aden route does appear to have been used around 70,000 years ago. However, it was never fully dry land. There is a narrow channel down the middle which can be seen on google maps. That being said, we also have found shell middens (garbage dumps) on the African side dating to about 125,000 years ago. So whomever lived back then was already using sea food.

 

An additional point is that there have been found stone tools on the Arabian side which date to around 125,000 years ago and two burial sites in Palestine that date to 80,000 to 125,000 years ago as well.

 

This supports the idea that there were probably two waves of migration and the earlier one probably took the northern route.

 

natural wrote:
The only thing that bothers me in your article is when you talk about 'caucasians' as if they are somehow 'versus' the 'black humans'. Or maybe I'm overly suspicious? What was the significance of that remark? Why do you consider this hypothesis important in regards to the notion of 'Palestine'? (Basically, what's the connection to 'Jews' which I'm guessing you're trying to make?)

 

Yah, I find myself wondering that one as well. The genetic studies suggest that the move from 70,000 years ago was probably a very small number of people, possibly as little as a couple thousand individuals. So there is not likely much of a cultural divide.

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Interesting. Any links, AIGS?

Interesting. Any links, AIGS?


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cj wrote:
It's been done.  Journey of Man by Spencer Wells - both a PBS special and a book.  The book has more detail, but the TV thing is okay.

It is not the one I had seen -- a DNA trace narrated by Kevin Bacon as I can now say after seeing it again. I have found another one that might be it but is coming through very slowly. It may be a while before I can comment.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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cj wrote:
It's been done. 

Journey of Man

by Spencer Wells - both a PBS special and a book.  The book has more detail, but the TV thing is okay.

OK, saw it. He got the lower sea level part. In that regard look for National Geographic Earth Investigated: Ancient Mariners which I found in the search process. It gets the lower sea level also and talks about the last leap to Australia.

The Wells one finds the first Caucasians, called Europeans for some odd reason, and talks of their entry to Europe. It does not address the other obvious point that those same people returned to Africa via the route to the north of the Red Sea to populate the southern shores of the Med.

So I am behind the first saying the route out of Africa was south of the Red Sea but still count coup for the return to Africa being via route north of the Red Sea.

Oddly though I do make an effort to follow this and while there are at least two identifying the correct route out of Africa they are exceptions to rule of presenting the route out of Africa by the northern route.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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A side comment

 Within the last week research suggests settlement of Australia should be pushed back to about 70,000 years or a little more.


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Pacioli wrote: Within the

Pacioli wrote:

 Within the last week research suggests settlement of Australia should be pushed back to about 70,000 years or a little more.

 

Cool.  Do you have a source?

 

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Indeed. Linky McLinkage is needed here. Mitochondrial DNA and Y chromosome DNA both support the out of Africa date of 70,000 years ago. Also, radioactive data puts man in North America around 30,000 years ago. At most. 15,000 years ago is better supported but we can't really get a good read on that.

 

Another question comes to mind here. Whatever the date of the first migration is, are you abbo or brit?

 

If you are abbo then I am willing to go with whatever number floats your boat as long as there in empirical support for it. If you are brit, you should consider that I am not all that far from you genetically. Ten generations ago, there were 32,768 people who contributed to my foolishness. They all lived on the main island. Hello cousin.

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Aboriginal Australians' 70,000 year walkabout

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Two news and original paper

cj wrote:

Pacioli wrote:

 Within the last week research suggests settlement of Australia should be pushed back to about 70,000 years or a little more.

 

Cool.  Do you have a source?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/science/23aborigines.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-23/aboriginal-dna-dates-australian-arrival/2913010

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2011/09/21/science.1211177


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Thank you Pacioli and AE,

Thank you Pacioli and AE, that is fascinating.

 


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I was unaware this was new. It says the split was 70kya but that it took 20ky to arrive in Australia.

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Previously, the most widely accepted theory was that all modern humans derive from a single out-of-Africa migration wave into Europe, Asia, and Australia.

Perhaps I need to review the two I suggested but I fairly certain this is mentioned. It is certainly implied in the difficulty of finding an Australian variant in India.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml