Just some questions about religion/christanity

religioNO
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Just some questions about religion/christanity

Okey... first of all i have never truly believed in a religion, but I've always had christian traditions and gone to church a few times etc.

started to reaserch a little bit and I've then decided that its all bullshit..

therefore i got some questions for you who know so much more than me:

how are the "relation" between the old and the new testemante? is the new testemant more central in the christian fath now?

example: I told my mother about all the killing, the slaves and all the things that didn't seem good, she told me that this was only in the old testemant and that she didnt believe it, but she did believe the new one because it was written after jesus death... - any thoughts?

she also said that people need something to believe in - i told her that i understood that, she believe in a higher power than us humans but i feel it is wrong to be a christian because of that.

my other friend said that isnt it better for people to believe in for example the 10 commandments and living their life like a christian then not to? - like i felt people that go out drinking everynigth, swears or simply acting gangsta would be better off being christian - thougths?

Last but not least; fantastic site i hope i will learn alot while im here! - if anyone got any tips for me to learn more about religion; books, sites, films etc. would be great!

(sorry if i posted it in a wrong forum)


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religioNO wrote:
how are the "relation" between the old and the new testemante? is the new testemant more central in the christian fath now?

 

Well the people who wrote the new testament believed in the old testament, so the link is probably important. As far as centrality, that varies from one denomination to another. I know that quite a few baptist churches make a big deal about being solidly rooted in the OT. Then too, other denominations are totally into the WWJD thing.

 

religioNO wrote:
example: I told my mother about all the killing, the slaves and all the things that didn't seem good, she told me that this was only in the old testemant and that she didnt believe it, but she did believe the new one because it was written after jesus death... - any thoughts?

 

Well, we don't even know that Jesus factually existed. There are many inconsistencies and irreconcilable bits of history. Even so, if was real then what was there for him to preach apart from some modifications to the religion of his people? And sure, the NT had to have been written later. In fact, parts of it probably a hundred or more years later. The only bits that are considered reasonably contemporary are the Pauline epistles and even then only about half of them. That and apart from getting a case of sun stroke, he never claimed to have met the historical Jesus.

 

religioNO wrote:
she also said that people need something to believe in - i told her that i understood that, she believe in a higher power than us humans but i feel it is wrong to be a christian because of that.

 

Well, most of the people on this site don't really believe in a higher power, so no not really a need as such. Even so, the idea of believing in something does not inform one of what to believe in. One could believe in aliens from Alpha Centauri if they really felt that need.

 

religioNO wrote:
my other friend said that isnt it better for people to believe in for example the 10 commandments and living their life like a christian then not to? - like i felt people that go out drinking everynigth, swears or simply acting gangsta would be better off being christian - thougths?

 

Well, basic moral precepts such as not killing and not having sex with your own mother are nearly universal. So why call them Christian?

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First off, let me give you

First off, let me give you some sage advise. TREAT ALL CLAIMS rooted in myth and tradition the same. While more often than not atheists in the west, and especially in America, deal with Christians and the bible, there are thousands of religions around the world and humans have made countless claims about magical friends in the sky in our species history.

While ripping the bible apart is sport and a historical hobby for many here, and there is lots to learn here, always remember before you get to ANY holy book, their core claim is that there is an invisible magic man with magic super powers.

Don't get me wrong, it is important to know biblical arguments, just like knowing how to play chess by thinking about what moves they might make. But ultimately they are not even on the chess board because their "king"(god) has absolutely no evidence for it. No deity for that matter claimed in human history has any credible evidence for it. So don't just be skeptical about Christianity.

Here are some terms for you to look up and learn.

1. Infinite regress(the problems with infinite regress)

2. The fallacy of Pascal's wager

3. Bentrand Russell's "teapot"

4. Naked assertion

5.Anthropomorphism(treating non human objects as if they have human qualities)

As far as "anthropomorphism" you can look at human history and see the progression of god belief going from earthy things like gods being volcanos and weather and the ocean and animals, to more human like gods like Apollo, Thor and then on to monotheism in Allah/Yahweh and Jesus. It simply states that gods are fictional reflections of the super hero we wishfully want to believe exists.

Books you should read.

The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins

The End of Faith, Sam Harris

The New Atheism, Victor Stinger

Admittedly those books above get scientific and technical, but have many layperson examples the everyday person can understand.

Other atheist books that discuss the geopolitical damage religion causes are,

God Is Not Great, Christopher Hitchens

Infidel, Ayaan Hersi Ali

Letter To A Christian Nation, Sam Harris

And outside the issue of theism/atheism, two books even believers can agree on about the dangers of fascism

1984 By George Orwell

Animal Farm, also by George Orwell

I know this is a big list, and believe me, I did not do this overnight, or in one year. I didn't start educating myself as to my position until 2001, and everything above took that long to this day.

I just want to give you an idea about how well armed you are going to need to be if you wish to take on believers. It isn't as simple as "that sounds like bullshit". Yes on the face that is the quick answer. But you are not always dealing with bumper sticker believers and many can have very complex arguments, no matter how hollow they are in reality. Just like an amusement park ride can be complex and the people who build it are clever in it's design and know how to sell it to you to get you to ride it. But where does that ride take you? Nowhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:
First off, let me give you some sage advise. TREAT ALL CLAIMS rooted in myth and tradition the same. While more often than not atheists in the west, and especially in America, deal with Christians and the bible, there are thousands of religions around the world and humans have made countless claims about magical friends in the sky in our species history.

 

That is a good point Brian.

 

I know a couple of interesting people with differing view from what one usually hears.

 

One guy is a Lakota Sioux. He has a medicine man. But he is not trying to get his world view into the public school system. Rather, he would like to be left alone and not deal with compulsive nut cases who want to force their views on all of those around him. Thus religion rarely gets mentioned between the two of us. Even so, I really don't buy into the supposed reality of the magical talking cougar who deals out spiritual advice.

 

The other guy is an ethnic Kurd. He is rather more open to talking about his cultural views but that is because where he comes from (Iran), there is a huge misunderstanding of who he is. He takes seriously his perceived obligations to he whose name may not be spoken (Shaitan). He is a great guy. In fact, he owns all the Subway restaurants in town and he is only one of two people I know who can tolerate the hot sauces that I regularly use. Technically he could be considered a devil worshiper but really he is a solid dude and well worth knowing. And no, I don't take his ideas seriously either.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
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Brian37 wrote:
First off, let me give you some sage advise. TREAT ALL CLAIMS rooted in myth and tradition the same. While more often than not atheists in the west, and especially in America, deal with Christians and the bible, there are thousands of religions around the world and humans have made countless claims about magical friends in the sky in our species history.

 

That is a good point Brian.

 

I know a couple of interesting people with differing view from what one usually hears.

 

One guy is a Lakota Sioux. He has a medicine man. But he is not trying to get his world view into the public school system. Rather, he would like to be left alone and not deal with compulsive nut cases who want to force their views on all of those around him. Thus religion rarely gets mentioned between the two of us. Even so, I really don't buy into the supposed reality of the magical talking cougar who deals out spiritual advice.

 

The other guy is an ethnic Kurd. He is rather more open to talking about his cultural views but that is because where he comes from (Iran), there is a huge misunderstanding of who he is. He takes seriously his perceived obligations to he whose name may not be spoken (Shaitan). He is a great guy. In fact, he owns all the Subway restaurants in town and he is only one of two people I know who can tolerate the hot sauces that I regularly use. Technically he could be considered a devil worshiper but really he is a solid dude and well worth knowing. And no, I don't take his ideas seriously either.

 

This should serve notice to believers that just because you and I both say "God does not exist" that means we agree on everything. Both you and Beyond drive me nuts with other issues. And I still feel like I am kissing my sister with Brian Sapient considering he is an Eagles Fan and I am a Redskins fan.

But without a doubt, there isn't a person reading this who can't or doesn't  like some aspects of another person who has other aspects that make them want to pull their hair out.

I love Caposkia as far as the fact that he hasn't run away like a hit and run fundy. And like my mom who is Catholic, can still like and love me, even though I don't believe and I love her just as much.

And as far a hot sauces. Love them, and usually can tolerate them. But sometimes it still hits me like a ton of bricks.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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So you are a hot sauce guy too? Coolness.

 

When I go to the market, I always check to see if there is anything new. There is one (which I happen to be out of right now) I think the name is Baja Blast. It is only slightly hotter than standard Tabasco but what it really is is habanero mustard. Great stuff on hot dogs.

 

The one that the Iranian guy like is called Endorphin Rush. The ingredients are tomato paste, black strap molasses and capsacin. When I let noobs sample it, I shake up the bottle and just barely touch the end of a toothpick to the inside of the cap. Either you end up with a stupid grin on your face or you ntry to rip your jaws apart wide enough to swallow a bowling ball.

 

Btw:

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


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So you are a hot sauce guy too? Coolness.

 

When I go to the market, I always check to see if there is anything new. There is one (which I happen to be out of right now) I think the name is Baja Blast. It is only slightly hotter than standard Tabasco but what it really is is habanero mustard. Great stuff on hot dogs.

 

The one that the Iranian guy like is called Endorphin Rush. The ingredients are tomato paste, black strap molasses and capsacin. When I let noobs sample it, I shake up the bottle and just barely touch the end of a toothpick to the inside of the cap. Either you end up with a stupid grin on your face or you ntry to rip your jaws apart wide enough to swallow a bowling ball.

 

Btw:

I once had a tiny pepper from a jar, at a bar, no poem intended. I did. It was fucking hot. Now I've had curry and wasabi. Whatever it was in that jar I had that lit my lips on fire, I hope humans never combine the above mentioned. I think it would make mustard gas taste like ice cream. It would make napalm taste like cherries.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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OK, I have a local Italian deli that I like. The whole family is fresh off the boat. Grandma shows up at 5:00 in the morning to start the days supply of bison mike mozzarella. They sometimes have USD $40/pound cold cuts you normally can't get outside of a four star hotel in Rome.

 

One time, I was there and some guy (who was a big dude like a construction worker or something) started jumping around and screaming about how hot whatever they had just given him was. I walked over to the counter and just gave the clerk the gesture that says “do it!”. He handed me one of those little plastic things that single serving salad dressing come in, which held a single cherry pepper.

 

Slurp it up and chew it open mouthed right in front of construction worker dude. Didn't even break a sweat. I win.

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Welcome to the forum.

Welcome to the forum.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Hi, religioNO

Brian37 gave you some good advice. An excellent site for research is www.talkorigins.org.

The new testament is generally more central to christianity, specially among the more charismatic denominations because of the focus on Jesus as their redeemer. Bible verses from the old and new testament are used to enhance Jesus' role as being the "way" to god.

Your mother's response indicates a general problem for christians regarding the bible. It is full of absurdities that just won't go away! Check out www.skepticsannonatedbible.com.

You can believe in science rather than some mystical "higher power".

You don't have to believe in god to have high moral standards. It's a matter of self-control.

 

 


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FMStereo wrote:Brian37 gave

FMStereo wrote:

Brian37 gave you some good advice. An excellent site for research is www.talkorigins.org.

The new testament is generally more central to christianity, specially among the more charismatic denominations because of the focus on Jesus as their redeemer. Bible verses from the old and new testament are used to enhance Jesus' role as being the "way" to god.

Your mother's response indicates a general problem for christians regarding the bible. It is full of absurdities that just won't go away! Check out www.skepticsannonatedbible.com.

You can believe in science rather than some mystical "higher power".

You don't have to believe in god to have high moral standards. It's a matter of self-control.

 

Well aware of both of those websites.  Have been for many years.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37

Brian37, my post was for religioNO. The first sentence in that post was me telling him to heed the advice you gave him in your previous post.

Cheers.


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The connection between the old and new

are the prophecies for a coming Messiah. As I see it, the New isn't  part of the bible. It is a work by the followers of JC. The Old is mainly Israelite history, and the new is not. There's no need to regard the new as a bible except for ones own acceptance. The New is not recognized by established authorities as fact because they don't understand it and there-fore can't approve it.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers