Argument for existance of Atheist Morality

Weston Bortner
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Argument for existance of Atheist Morality

I'm not a philosopher, so this might not be perfect (or good at all), but I think that I have found an argument for the existence of atheist morality. Before I start with the argument, I invite you all to join the argument that started it. I got into an argument with a Christian on Amazon over morality and Hitler. The debate took place on a review comment that was for John Loftus' book "The End of Christianity." I'm getting tired of defending this book mostly by myself, so I seek the aid of the Rational Response Squad. I'm James on the review comments. We're not really arguing about the book right now as we are about morality.

http://www.amazon.com/review/RU6Y87BUMD70H/ref=cm_cr_dp_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1616144130&nodeID=283155&tag=&linkCode=#wasThisHelpful

Anyway the argument:

 

A christian says that atheism has no morality.

Morality is a set of rules that define right and wrong.

There is good and bad morality.

If atheism does not have morality, then atheists have no obligation to do right OR wrong.

Therefore, atheism does not condemn bad actions nor does it allow it.

Therefore, if atheism has no morality and an atheist performs evil, atheism is not responsible, because athiesm dictates no obligation to do said evil.

Christians say that atheism is responsible for murder and is evil

In order for atheism to be evil, atheism has to have a moral code to break.

Therefore, atheists have morals.

 

Again, not a philosopher, so feel free to correct me. At the very least help me out with the people on amazon. It's what the Rational Response Squad is for, right?

 

Our job on this Earth, is to take care of each other. Something that we have ultimately failed at doing, hence why we are so miserable.


Brian37
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Atheism is not a moral code

Atheism is not a moral code anymore than "off" is a tv channel. It is merely the position that one holds on the issue of the existence of god. Atheists are not a sub species nor are we super heros. We ARE the same species as believers, and as such, capable of the same range of human emotions and actions as any human on the face of the planet.

I WILL SAY THIS, it is because, at least in the west, since modern atheists are not bound to religious or political dogma, and more often than not see themselves as individuals, as well as others, we do not have the same gang mentality theism and even state fascism holds.

All humans are flawed, because evolution has never been about "perfection". But I will say as far as morality is concerned it is because atheists are not bound to a dogma, that we can observe nature more objectively.

Atheist are just as diverse in their politics, class, titles, and personal hobbies and likes and dislikes as any other label.

I warn atheists not to partake in the "I am better than you" argument. I think it is OK to argue that we have a better position, but I warn against any attempts that might lead believers to falsely assume that we think we are superior.

The fact is all humans die, and eventually our species will go extinct, and even our sun will expand and fry all life on this planet.

There is no "virtue of the minority" or "virtue of the oppressed". There are simply good arguments that have data backing them up, and mere mental masturbation. All being an atheist means is that you lack a belief in a god or gods. It says nothing about your personal behavior or your personal morality.

But I am sure as hell against the stupid idea that morality is an invention of a god or a religion. It is a product of evolution.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


BobSpence
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Of course Atheism has no

Of course Atheism has no morality, any more than not believing in Santa Claus has 'morality'. Stupid.

Morality is not a set of rules, that would constitute a 'legal system', not a moral code.

'Bad morality'?? IOW there is some kind of 'meta-morality'? Maybe. If so then religious-based  'morality' would definitely qualify, not being based on sound principles, merely arbitrary edicts of an imagined being. Atheism is possibly more likely to be associated with a 'good' morality, by inherently rejecting the deeply flawed 'morality' of much religion.

It is true that Atheists have no obligations to do right OR wrong, or condemn it, AS atheists, any more than people who don't believe in the Tooth Fairy.

If anyone does something that causes or is likely to cause harm and suffering of another person, which is avoidable and not as part of a more important cause, such as a medical procedure intended to address an injury or other medical problem, IOW does something basically 'wrong', they are doing wrong, regardless of their beliefs. Believers have 'let-out' clauses to 'excuse' actions which are demanded by the doctrines they believe in, which would allow them to blame those edicts for their wrong actions.

Yes, in order for Atheism to be 'evil', it would have to have a set of edicts similar to that of a religion, requiring some nasty actions, such as burning witches at the stake, stoning women or children for trivial reasons, or merely for being 'allowing' themselves to be victims, etc.

Since Atheism by definition makes no such demands, it cannot be 'evil', whereas religion can be.

Not being bound by such rules, atheists are completely free to follow a properly-based moral system, based on principles such as 'first, do no harm', and 'do not do to others what you would not wish done to you', which are based on our natural empathy and our desire to live in a functional and friendly society.

So atheists are not necessarily moral, but more likely to be moral, by being free of the evil demands built into many religous doctrines.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


Brian37
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I will say this, again,

I will say this, again, although atheists are no better or worse than believers, what I cannot stand is the idea that atheists are not capable of doing the right thing.

Case and point, yesterday AND today. I was walking up to the store and looked at the ground and found a credit card upside down. At first I thought it might be simply a discarded used store card. But picked it up and found out it was a credit card. Then walked further and found a drivers license. It just so happened that the credit card was for a bank in the same parking lot as the store. It turned out, from what the teller told me that the guy left his stuff on the hood of his car while pumping gas and forgot and didn't see the wind blow it off.

So while walking back, I discovered his wife's credit card and another credit card and a health care card. So I walked back and gave that to the teller as well.

SO I thought that was the end of it because I deliberately walked over the same area to see if I could find his wallet. I did not.

BUT, walking back today, I found two more of his credit cards.

I only hope that no one found his wallet and pilfered it for the money. But what I don't understand is WHY everything was so scattered unless he merely had a money clip.

So my point in telling this story, is that I shouldn't have to tell this story. If believers would accept that I am capable of doing the right thing, then I wouldn't have to even type this right now.

It is the bullshit claim that a god or a particular religion is the inventor of morality. The fact is it simply amounts to what would I want others to do if that happened to me. Morality is not magic nor the invention of a god or a religion.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Weston Bortner
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If any of you guys on here

If any of you guys on here was T-Bone, they've responded to you.


Weston Bortner
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Alright, I give up. I'm so

Alright, I give up. I'm so tired of arguing with these people. If anyone wants to continue defending John's book, go ahead. I'm done.

Our job on this Earth, is to take care of each other. Something that we have ultimately failed at doing, hence why we are so miserable.