Caesar's Messiah: Jesus was an invention of the Romans (website)

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Caesar's Messiah: Jesus was an invention of the Romans (website)

ho was Jesus? Why is there no historic archaeological evidence of his existence?
Who wrote the Gospels? Why were they written in Greek, rather than Hebrew or Aramaic?

How did the Christian religion come to be centered in Rome? Why were the first Christian pope and earliest saints all members of the Flavius Caesar ruling family?



 

This latest ground-breaking work in Christian scholarship reveals a new and revolutionary understanding of the origin of Christianity, explaining what is the New Testament, who is the real Jesus, and how Christ's second coming already occurred. The book Caesar's Messiah shows that Jesus was the invention of the Roman Imperial Court. Their purpose: to offer a vision of a “peaceful Messiah” who would serve as an alternative to the revolutionary leaders who were rocking first-century Israel and threatening Rome. This discovery is based on the parallels found between the Gospels and the works of the historian Josephus, which occur IN SEQUENCE.

http://caesarsmessiah.com/

The delusional church has no more evidence Jesus is real!

 

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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Sorry, but it kinda smacks

Sorry, but it kinda smacks of a conspiracy theory. Do we really have good reason to believe that a Roman court worked together, studied the Septuagint, and elaborately fabricated textual evidence of a diverse first-century Jewish religion? With contradictory gospels that sourced each other? With Pauline epistles that show inter-doctrinal rifts? With an evolving Christology? I mean, how is that theory better than the theory that proposes an actual cult leader named Jesus found Christianity? Is there anything outlandish about what critical secular scholars tend to accept?


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ApostateAbe wrote:Sorry, but

ApostateAbe wrote:

Sorry, but it kinda smacks of a conspiracy theory. Do we really have good reason to believe that a Roman court worked together, studied the Septuagint, and elaborately fabricated textual evidence of a diverse first-century Jewish religion? With contradictory gospels that sourced each other? With Pauline epistles that show inter-doctrinal rifts? With an evolving Christology? I mean, how is that theory better than the theory that proposes an actual cult leader named Jesus found Christianity? Is there anything outlandish about what critical secular scholars tend to accept?

How about good reason that Romans looked through Paul's Christianity (that has nothing to do with Jesus' teaching and was very empire friendly) and picked it as the winner?

bye bye conspiracy.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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This is why while I love

This is why while I love ripping apart the absurdities in the bible, history to me is a fucking distraction.

A man named Jesus existing, or being the invention of marketers doesn't fucking matter to me.

Humans do not pop out of dirt as adults. Humans are not born from virgins. And humans do not escape rigor mortis.

This to me would be like visiting Disney Land, and because some marketeers dreamed it up and successfully sold it must mean mice can talk.

I don't give a shit if people claim that Jesus is a product of space aliens. And of course Rome adapted Christianity, but not out of any conspiracy, But just like Coke and Pepsi compete. It was a climate that lead to the change from polytheism to Christianity. Not a real Jesus nor Rome.

This claim to me is like saying Bush caused 9/11.

Jesus, man or myth, does not matter. Gods do not exist and the only real thing that can be said is that Christianity at that time became popular so the politicians at the time adapted it.

In any case zombie gods are bullshit claims and virgin births are bullshit claims.

 

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The first thought that came

The first thought that came to my mind is that if the Romans would have created it, it would be much better done. The books would be more coherent and wouldn't contradict each other.


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ScientiaPotentiaNostra

ScientiaPotentiaNostra wrote:

The first thought that came to my mind is that if the Romans would have created it, it would be much better done. The books would be more coherent and wouldn't contradict each other.

They weren't good at creating religions. They stole their pantheon from the Greeks, right?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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ApostateAbe wrote:Sorry, but

ApostateAbe wrote:

Sorry, but it kinda smacks of a conspiracy theory. Do we really have good reason to believe that a Roman court worked together, studied the Septuagint, and elaborately fabricated textual evidence of a diverse first-century Jewish religion? With contradictory gospels that sourced each other? With Pauline epistles that show inter-doctrinal rifts? With an evolving Christology? I mean, how is that theory better than the theory that proposes an actual cult leader named Jesus found Christianity? Is there anything outlandish about what critical secular scholars tend to accept?

You're right, Abe. This is one of the kooky versions of mythicism. I actually read Caesar's Messiah a while back. It was a fun read, but I wouldn't take it seriously as an actual historical hypothesis. It's more like a Dan Brown novel. Fast and loose on facts, but with just enough realism to keep you reading. Classic conspiracy theory stuff.

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jcgadfly

jcgadfly wrote:

ScientiaPotentiaNostra wrote:

The first thought that came to my mind is that if the Romans would have created it, it would be much better done. The books would be more coherent and wouldn't contradict each other.

They weren't good at creating religions. They stole their pantheon from the Greeks, right?

it's not quite that simple.  most of their gods, e.g. saturn and jupiter, already existed.  they just took on greek attributes over time (and vice versa, i might add), just as the greeks and egyptians borrowed heavily from each other, along with the celts, gauls, germanics, etc., etc.  the idea of clearly defined national mythologies is a good teaching tool, but it has more foundation in the writings of men like thomas bulfinch than actual history.

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I said, 'Father change my name.'
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ApostateAbe wrote:Sorry, but

ApostateAbe wrote:

Sorry, but it kinda smacks of a conspiracy theory. Do we really have good reason to believe that a Roman court worked together, studied the Septuagint, and elaborately fabricated textual evidence of a diverse first-century Jewish religion? With contradictory gospels that sourced each other? With Pauline epistles that show inter-doctrinal rifts? With an evolving Christology? I mean, how is that theory better than the theory that proposes an actual cult leader named Jesus found Christianity? Is there anything outlandish about what critical secular scholars tend to accept?

Its not that far fetched. Scientology was started by fans of a science fiction writer. Kwanza was started by an x felon, Religions ARE invented. They start out as cults and become religi9n. I cant speak to this book, or it's validity. But whatever the case Christianity was a social invention no matter what because the creators of the movement wanted a savior to come in their time.

Some scholars think Nero was the cause of the rise of Christianity. When a fire burnt down a big portion of Rome Nero used the Christians as a scapegoat. I think they milked their victim status and gained popularity over a long period of time.

 

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natural wrote:ApostateAbe

natural wrote:

ApostateAbe wrote:

Sorry, but it kinda smacks of a conspiracy theory. Do we really have good reason to believe that a Roman court worked together, studied the Septuagint, and elaborately fabricated textual evidence of a diverse first-century Jewish religion? With contradictory gospels that sourced each other? With Pauline epistles that show inter-doctrinal rifts? With an evolving Christology? I mean, how is that theory better than the theory that proposes an actual cult leader named Jesus found Christianity? Is there anything outlandish about what critical secular scholars tend to accept?

You're right, Abe. This is one of the kooky versions of mythicism. I actually read Caesar's Messiah a while back. It was a fun read, but I wouldn't take it seriously as an actual historical hypothesis. It's more like a Dan Brown novel. Fast and loose on facts, but with just enough realism to keep you reading. Classic conspiracy theory stuff.

What are you smoking??  Caesar's Messiah is a perfectly legit theory as to how Jesus is a 99% fabricated character!  Don't you think it's just a LITTLE strange that the bible says Jesus was known far and wide and had many THOUSANDS of followers yet NO ONE has ever heard of the guy?  Even bible theology has a problem with what it calls "the missing years of Jesus"!  It's missing because he was NEVER there!

The bible god is no different that any other god because it references a character that NO ONE has actually met or can verify ever existed! Don't try and cite bible characters since that's like trying to cite Arjuna and the Pandava brothers as proof of Hanuman or Zeus and Athena as proof of Hercules!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

natural wrote:

ApostateAbe wrote:

Sorry, but it kinda smacks of a conspiracy theory. Do we really have good reason to believe that a Roman court worked together, studied the Septuagint, and elaborately fabricated textual evidence of a diverse first-century Jewish religion? With contradictory gospels that sourced each other? With Pauline epistles that show inter-doctrinal rifts? With an evolving Christology? I mean, how is that theory better than the theory that proposes an actual cult leader named Jesus found Christianity? Is there anything outlandish about what critical secular scholars tend to accept?

You're right, Abe. This is one of the kooky versions of mythicism. I actually read Caesar's Messiah a while back. It was a fun read, but I wouldn't take it seriously as an actual historical hypothesis. It's more like a Dan Brown novel. Fast and loose on facts, but with just enough realism to keep you reading. Classic conspiracy theory stuff.

What are you smoking??  Caesar's Messiah is a perfectly legit theory as to how Jesus is a 99% fabricated character!  Don't you think it's just a LITTLE strange that the bible says Jesus was known far and wide and had many THOUSANDS of followers yet NO ONE has ever heard of the guy?  Even bible theology has a problem with what it calls "the missing years of Jesus"!  It's missing because he was NEVER there!

The bible god is no different that any other god because it references a character that NO ONE has actually met or can verify ever existed! Don't try and cite bible characters since that's like trying to cite Arjuna and the Pandava brothers as proof of Hanuman or Zeus and Athena as proof of Hercules!

Atwill's theory would be probable if and only if the theory fits the evidence and the evidence fits the theory better than all competing theories. It is not a matter of trusting the texts. We don't trust the texts. Nor is it purely a matter of distrusting the texts. We need to explain the texts with probability. If a conspiracy theory can do that, then great, but what about the hypothesis that Christianity was much like any other cult-turned-religion in the world? The historical silences do not do much for the theory. If Jesus was a peasant-class cult leader, then the historical evidence of him really would be scarce, even if thousands of illiterate peasants followed him (not that such a claim is any more than Christian myth). That is what we see with John the Baptist, a first-century cult leader found only in the gospels and Josephus.


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ApostateAbe wrote: If Jesus

ApostateAbe wrote:

 If Jesus was a peasant-class cult leader, then the historical evidence of him really would be scarce, even if thousands of illiterate peasants followed him (not that such a claim is any more than Christian myth). That is what we see with John the Baptist, a first-century cult leader found only in the gospels and Josephus.

If the historical evidence of Jesus was scant then it is that much EASIER to fabricate stories about a peasant man that NEVER existed now isn't it?

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

ApostateAbe wrote:

 If Jesus was a peasant-class cult leader, then the historical evidence of him really would be scarce, even if thousands of illiterate peasants followed him (not that such a claim is any more than Christian myth). That is what we see with John the Baptist, a first-century cult leader found only in the gospels and Josephus.

If the historical evidence of Jesus was scant then it is that much EASIER to fabricate stories about a peasant man that NEVER existed now isn't it?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I am not saying the evidence was scarce. I am saying the evidence is scarce. Direct evidence for almost everyone who lived in antiquity is now obliterated, and we have evidence for just a handful of people left, surviving from the writings of historians and religious myths. I conclude that Jesus was the human founder of the Christian cult, and that conclusion follows from the ancient evidence reflecting the ancient religious myths about Jesus. If that sounds either absurd or faithful (not that there is a difference), then I invite you to read the thread I wrote recently to explain why, here:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/30655


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ApostateAbe

ApostateAbe wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

ApostateAbe wrote:

 If Jesus was a peasant-class cult leader, then the historical evidence of him really would be scarce, even if thousands of illiterate peasants followed him (not that such a claim is any more than Christian myth). That is what we see with John the Baptist, a first-century cult leader found only in the gospels and Josephus.

If the historical evidence of Jesus was scant then it is that much EASIER to fabricate stories about a peasant man that NEVER existed now isn't it?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I am not saying the evidence was scarce. I am saying the evidence is scarce. Direct evidence for almost everyone who lived in antiquity is now obliterated, and we have evidence for just a handful of people left, surviving from the writings of historians and religious myths. I conclude that Jesus was the human founder of the Christian cult, and that conclusion follows from the ancient evidence reflecting the ancient religious myths about Jesus. If that sounds either absurd or faithful (not that there is a difference), then I invite you to read the thread I wrote recently to explain why, here:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/30655

Dude, that is NOT true at all! We have MANY MANY writers from that time who documented life during the alleged life of Jesus yet not a word about him or his apostles!

“Enough of the writings of the authors named in the foregoing list remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ.”

Nor, we may add, do any of these authors make note of the disciples or apostles; increasing the embarrassment from the silence of history concerning the foundation of Christianity. In other words, the only information of the life of Jesus comes from Christian believers.

 Those 21 great writers of the Greco-Roman world, whose combined work would fill a library did not write or allude to any thesis that god became man, walked the earth, died, was resurrected, and is now the Invisible Man in the Sky. There is not a single third party historical witness for confirmation, and not one single mention of a god walking the earth in any of the volumes of the combined work from the great writers of the period.  

Again, I restate the obvious, yet in this mass of literature, “aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ.” Nor, do any of these authors make note of the disciples or apostles; increasing the embarrassment from the silence of history concerning the foundation of Christianity. In other words, the only information on the life of Jesus comes from Christian believers.

This alone should make anyone think twice before swallowing―hook, line and sinker―
the Christian dead man-god myth ― or, for that matter, any Abrahamic Derivative Religion (ADR), for they are all F3 False, Fictitious and Foolish.

The Hebrew bible, like the Christian New Testament, is fictitious; from a 6-day creation of the universe; a cunning, walking, talking snake; big fish tales; world flood and an "Invisible Man in the Sky" ― it is all fiction, a bold sham perpetrated on mankind.

 

http://jdstone.org/cr/files/nohistoricalevidenceofjesus.html

 

 

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:What

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
What are you smoking??  Caesar's Messiah is a perfectly legit theory as to how Jesus is a 99% fabricated character!  Don't you think it's just a LITTLE strange that the bible says Jesus was known far and wide and had many THOUSANDS of followers yet NO ONE has ever heard of the guy?  Even bible theology has a problem with what it calls "the missing years of Jesus"!  It's missing because he was NEVER there!

Don't fall prey to illogic in your eagerness. It would be fallacious to assume that the two ways being discussed (it's real vs it's a Roman invention) are the only two ways for christianity to have formed and grown.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Vastet wrote:It would be

Vastet wrote:
It would be fallacious to assume that the two ways being discussed (it's real vs it's a Roman invention) are the only two ways for christianity to have formed and grown.

+1

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
--Leonard Cohen


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Vastet

Vastet wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
What are you smoking??  Caesar's Messiah is a perfectly legit theory as to how Jesus is a 99% fabricated character!  Don't you think it's just a LITTLE strange that the bible says Jesus was known far and wide and had many THOUSANDS of followers yet NO ONE has ever heard of the guy?  Even bible theology has a problem with what it calls "the missing years of Jesus"!  It's missing because he was NEVER there!
Don't fall prey to illogic in your eagerness. It would be fallacious to assume that the two ways being discussed (it's real vs it's a Roman invention) are the only two ways for christianity to have formed and grown.

I never said that.  The bottom line is Jesus is just a STORY of a god just like hundreds of other gods!

Even over the weekend they said on CNN's "Mystery of Jesus" they said that Jesus was originally depicted as Apollo! They said the 4 gospels were not written till 40 to 70 years after Jesus, contradict each other is some areas, and were NOT written to be  historically accurate but rather written to spread the religion!!

Just like you have stories of the  Sumerian gods, Roman gods, Greek gods, etc. you have a story of a Palestinian god, Jesus.  Jesus is nothing more, nothing less!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com