Hello! :D

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Hello! :D

 I'm new here, as you can probably already guess by my post, but some people don't get things. I'm lost in the ways of faith and I am stretching out everywhere to hear whatever I can.

I'm a happy person and I have unlimited love and forgiveness for all! And I am a Disney maniac! Laughing out loud

"Now shall you deal with me, oh prince! And all the powers of Hell!" - Maleficent AKA Mistress of All Evil


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Welcome to the forums! Glad

Welcome to the forums! Glad to see a new face here. One word of advice, DON'T listen to Jean Chauvin - the dude is full of shit.

 

Happy Posting!

 

AA

"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to known." - Carl Sagan

"Atheism is a non-prophet organization." – George Carlin

"We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." – Richard Dawkins


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 Thank you! I'm so happy

 Thank you! I'm so happy that you are a little happier. And I shall be wary, but I like to be an equal opportunity listener, that way I don't pick on a certain group when I rip them to shreds! 

"Now shall you deal with me, oh prince! And all the powers of Hell!" - Maleficent AKA Mistress of All Evil


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Welcome mghty

 

Pleased to meet you. How do you mean "lost in the ways of faith"?

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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 I mean that I have

 I mean that I have recently become disillusioned with Christianity and I am observing everything to see which I think is best.

"Now shall you deal with me, oh prince! And all the powers of Hell!" - Maleficent AKA Mistress of All Evil


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Welcome to the forum.

Welcome to the forum.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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 Thank you!

 Thank you! Laughing out loud


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Well mghty

 

mghtymth wrote:

I mean that I have recently become disillusioned with Christianity and I am observing everything to see which I think is best.

 

a position of observation awaiting further proof describes what christians call atheism very nicely. 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

mghtymth wrote:

I mean that I have recently become disillusioned with Christianity and I am observing everything to see which I think is best.

 

a position of observation awaiting further proof describes what christians call atheism very nicely. 

 

But I'm not an atheist until I decide that there is no god/gods.

"Now shall you deal with me, oh prince! And all the powers of Hell!" - Maleficent AKA Mistress of All Evil


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Atheism

mghtymth wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

mghtymth wrote:

I mean that I have recently become disillusioned with Christianity and I am observing everything to see which I think is best.

 

a position of observation awaiting further proof describes what christians call atheism very nicely. 

 

But I'm not an atheist until I decide that there is no god/gods.

 

Atheism is a label that means 'without god' but even as an atheist you can never completely rule out the vanishing possibility of 'some power out there' though there's no likelihood it's an anthropomorphic superbeing. This means many atheists will tell you they believe there is insufficient proof for the existence of gods. This is what I mean when I say atheism is 'observation awaiting further proof' when it comes to god.

Personally, I want a testable explanation for the existence of a god that is not simply a naked assertion, an argument from complexity, a threat of eternal torment or the assertion all humans are born into ancestral sin and must be 'saved'. But if there was some such empirical proof for an exo-universal power, I'd have to revisit my position. As it stands no such proof exists - at least none we are in a position to comprehend.  

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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I can understand that.

I can understand that.


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In any case

 

mghtymth wrote:

I can understand that.

 

I'm the son of a preacher and a missionary and a former believer. I became disillusioned with god myself for a number of reasons over a long-ish period of time as I went from my teens to my 20s. What is it about christianity that disillusioned you?

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

mghtymth wrote:

I can understand that.

 

I'm the son of a preacher and a missionary and a former believer. I became disillusioned with god myself for a number of reasons over a long-ish period of time as I went from my teens to my 20s. What is it about christianity that disillusioned you?

I have never been really religious and neither has my family. I started to think about it when my dad brought me to church. I always found it boring and I never really started to accept it until I moved in with my mom and I saw her being religious. When I moved to Tennessee things were reinforced by the surroundings, but my home became less religious. I started to doubt things when I started to explore my sexuality and I thought more about the contradictions of the Bible. My biggest one being why Judaism has no concept of Hell, while the supposedly more forgiving religion of Christianity does.

"Now shall you deal with me, oh prince! And all the powers of Hell!" - Maleficent AKA Mistress of All Evil


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 welcome to the forum

 welcome to the forum


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Welcome!Best thing I can

Welcome!

Best thing I can suggest is looking through a lot of topics. There are dozens of stories of conversion on this site, and dozens more stories from people like myself who were never brainwashed into religion as a child, and never gravitated towards it later when it becomes a choice. Good luck. Smiling

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Welcome Aboard

Welcome to the forum. Always nice to have open minded new people.

I would check out the video by Jake, the one that explains Agnostics, Atheists, Strong Atheists and Weak Atheists.

In my opinion, with the absence of hard evidence, the logical default position would be disbelief until further proof.

For instance, Bertrand Russell's example of the teapot that floats around the Earth. The one that we can not see, photograph or detect. There may actually be a teapot there, but I am not going to believe it until I know for certain.

I am a former christian turned hard core Atheist. I also happen to live in Tennessee. I was born and raised in New Jersey though. The Bible Belt is probably responsible for more Atheists than anything else (other than the Bible Laughing out loud ). Although I had lost my faith in god, long before I moved here.

Hope to hear more from you.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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 Thank you everyone for the

 Thank you everyone for the kind words, that was very nice of you. I am glad that I have been welcomed here. Laughing out loud

I hope I can learn a few things before I leave. Smiling

 

"Now shall you deal with me, oh prince! And all the powers of Hell!" - Maleficent AKA Mistress of All Evil


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 Welcome.This is an

 Welcome.

This is an excellent website to sort out the issues with Christianity.

It has been a big help to me, a former minister.

 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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Hooray!If we're going to

Hooray!

If we're going to play the I'm happy because you're happy that I'm happy game, we can calculate the euphoria we get after an infinite amount of responses, since it's a convergent set!

The things you learn on the internet, right?

Also, I'd like to know how old you are. I'm 18.


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 Yes, we can, but first we

 Yes, we can, but first we would need to find out the function of the amount of euphoria that is spread. Then we can set up a Taylor Series and use the ratio test to find the interval of convergence.

I am 18 too, I have just graduated and I do not want to return to the horrid times of AP calculus, not hard, just annoying.

"Now shall you deal with me, oh prince! And all the powers of Hell!" - Maleficent AKA Mistress of All Evil


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mghtymth wrote: I'm new

mghtymth wrote:

 I'm new here, as you can probably already guess by my post, but some people don't get things. I'm lost in the ways of faith and I am stretching out everywhere to hear whatever I can.

I'm a happy person and I have unlimited love and forgiveness for all! And I am a Disney maniac! Laughing out loud

I have always hated Disney which is ironic considering that Walt Disney was an atheist. Too fucking sappy for me. and HOW they hell are they going to use the Navy Seals name?

Mickey Mouse with an M-16 and night vision goggles busting into the Bin Laden compound? Mickey Mouse voice:"Take that motherfucker"!

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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It should be illegal to even

It should be illegal to even attempt to copyright something like that. The US gov't, if anyone, should automatically have any and all rights to any and all things related to US gov't operations. Any and every American should have full use of the title. Or, better, no use of the title, as it's already being used.

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Brian37 wrote: I have

Brian37 wrote:

 

I have always hated Disney which is ironic considering that Walt Disney was an atheist. Too fucking sappy for me. and HOW they hell are they going to use the Navy Seals name?

Mickey Mouse with an M-16 and night vision goggles busting into the Bin Laden compound? Mickey Mouse voice:"Take that motherfucker"!

Ironically enough {And I have mentioned it on a couple of other threads before.} When my niece and nephew visited me last Christmas, I told them I would treat them to any movie of their choice.

At the time, they picked  that C.S. Lewis adaptation called : The Voyage of Dawn Treader.

Funny enough film, (entertained the litle ones with all of the talking animals and such), BUT, I oould not help but notice something. The kid that scorned nonsense and loved science, was the kid that was supposed to be taught this "valuable" lesson about make-believe dragons and wizards. The lovable, wise, courageous, lion, saves everyone at the end and talks about " knowing me by my name in other worlds".  Meaning god I guess.

Personally, everyone knows that I am a very outspoken Atheist. But, while my niece and nephew were being entertained and loving the show, I chose to not say anything about the borderline theist propaganda that I felt they were receiving.  Perhaps I was being a bit too sensitive, but I chose to just keep quiet on it. Although I could tell, my sister, their mother, could see  that I was biting my tongue off.   Laughing out loud

While there are no magical talking lions (otherwise known as god) that save us from ourselves . And while I do not scorn imagination and creativity, ( it was imagination and creativity that lead me to science and reason after all), I can not help but notice that Tinseltown seems to push these underlying themes of "everything must happen for a reason" and such. Mellestad and I talked about this on another thread.

Right now, I'll take Japanese horror films and European Drame for entertainment. My own personal preference, but at least I do not have to watch these clear cut lines of "right" and wrong".

 

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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Well, I've seen enough

Well, I've seen enough people rain down on him to post a contrary opinion. I LOVED the C.S. Lewis series as a kid. To death. I've probably read all the books 5 or 6 times. Not for quite awhile, because I lost them when I moved from Alberta to B.C. in the early 90's, but before then I read them a lot. Now maybe it's because I didn't even know there were parallels to christianity until I was long past 20, but they always appeared to be typical fiction to me, until I learned enough about christianity to draw parallels between the two. But then I can draw parallels from most fiction to religion, so it never meant anything to me. Fiction is where religion belongs anyway.

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 I'm sorry you don't like

 I'm sorry you don't like Disney. Sad 

And the Narnia series is wonderful, I loved reading the books, but I don't know if they translate that well into movies. I never really liked any of the movies except the first one.

"Now shall you deal with me, oh prince! And all the powers of Hell!" - Maleficent AKA Mistress of All Evil


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I read Disney comic-books as

I read Disney comic-books as a kid, liked Donald Duck the most, couldn't really 'get' Mickey Mouse.

Liked the movie Fantasia.

Can barely remember my tearful response as I came out of the theater after seeing the movie 'Bambi', that my mother told me about later.

I even spent an enjoyable afternoon at the original Disneyland at Anaheim, CA, so I am not one to rubbish Disney.

So there is definitely something there in many of the stories, and the art, that appeals, especially, it seems, to the young. Maybe as one's early hopes and desires get bruised against the harsh realities, it is harder to immerse oneself in the cuteness of Disney.

The Disney style just gradually lost its appeal to me as I grew up and discovered much more solid and 'meaty' stories.

CS Lewis pissed me off in his Sci-Fi/Fantasy series, "Out of the Silent Planet", which is one of the few sci-fi series I did not finish reading - the Christian theology pervading and inspiring it just got too obtrusive for me.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

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mghtymth wrote: I'm sorry

mghtymth wrote:

 I'm sorry you don't like Disney. Sad 

And the Narnia series is wonderful, I loved reading the books, but I don't know if they translate that well into movies. I never really liked any of the movies except the first one.

I read them as a kid in grade school, was not TOO wild about them.

As I stated before, I understand it is entertainment for kids and such (thus the reason for my silence on it) .But, as a writer, I notice the underlying messages that every story conveys, Maybe I overanalyze it a little too much, but the subliminal message of Narnia seemed very theistic to me.

I notice how theists screamed and howled in protest at The Golden Compass, and I thought that film was just as good as any Narnia garbage. It's ok for theists to try and ban The Golden Compass, but not ok for me to find some irritation at Narnia ? Hmmmm. I don't call for films to be banned because I do not like them. Let people watch whatever they wish I say. Unlike the Religious Right that wishes to silence everything that "offends" them.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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 Yeah, I can see where you

 Yeah, I can see where you are coming from. And I never even noticed anything bad with The Golden Compass, just that I found the movie kinda boring.

"Now shall you deal with me, oh prince! And all the powers of Hell!" - Maleficent AKA Mistress of All Evil


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mghtymth wrote:Yeah, I can

mghtymth wrote:

Yeah, I can see where you are coming from. And I never even noticed anything bad with The Golden Compass, just that I found the movie kinda boring.

I actually noticed there was going to be a film about it the day after I bought the trilogy. I really enjoyed the books, but that was mostly because I was really into parallel universes and stuff like that Laughing out loud (I'm still known as being the prophet of the sheep from the fourth dimension on school, which I just finished too!). The seconds and third part of the trilogy were just weird, with all parallel universes and Angels battling and stuff.

When I was 14 or something I loved reading, and I read like half a dozen books by Ted Dekker, another Christian writer, where it's really, really obvious he IS a Christian.

One more thing: LotR


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Thunderios wrote:mghtymth

Thunderios wrote:

mghtymth wrote:

Yeah, I can see where you are coming from. And I never even noticed anything bad with The Golden Compass, just that I found the movie kinda boring.

I actually noticed there was going to be a film about it the day after I bought the trilogy. I really enjoyed the books, but that was mostly because I was really into parallel universes and stuff like that Laughing out loud (I'm still known as being the prophet of the sheep from the fourth dimension on school, which I just finished too!). The seconds and third part of the trilogy were just weird, with all parallel universes and Angels battling and stuff.

When I was 14 or something I loved reading, and I read like half a dozen books by Ted Dekker, another Christian writer, where it's really, really obvious he IS a Christian.

One more thing: LotR

 

I got the trilogy from the library when the movie came out.  Read all of them, but I was creeped out by the demons that were supposed to be souls or something. 

The fighting and angels and stuff was kind of cool, so I finished the books.  Really glad I didn't spend any money on them.

And LOTR rocks.  I first read it in 1967-ish and have reread it many times since.  I really liked the most recent movie series as well.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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I read LOTR way back, and

I read LOTR way back, and quite enjoyed them, but much preferred the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, by Stephen Donaldson - much more 'adult'.

I actually liked the LOTR movies much more than the books, they didn't bother with so much of the 'cute' stuff, which seemed to come along with much of the hobbit and fairy stuff in the books.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

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I read the first chapter or

I read the first chapter or so of the Hobbit when I was 8 or 9, and haven't touched Tolkein since. The movies were good, but as an author he sucks balls. And no, I don't care that he's one of he more respected writers in recent history. He didn't know the basics of how to write a good story. All he does is go on and on and on and on and on about pointless shit. It's kinda like reading the bible, just with a lot of fluff instead of darkness.

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Welcome! I'm new here too!

Welcome! I'm new here too! If you haven't been there yet, I also strongly reccomend Reddit.com. I love the forums there. I mostly stick to r/atheism and related topics but there are so many that no matter what is on your mind you will find a subreddit to post your thoughts on.


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BobSpence1 wrote:I read LOTR

BobSpence1 wrote:

I read LOTR way back, and quite enjoyed them, but much preferred the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, by Stephen Donaldson - much more 'adult'.

 

I have the first two in the "Thomas Covenant the unbeliever" series and had totally forgotten about that, maybe I'll ebay and find out how far it went. I assume in the end his leprosy gets cured or something ><
 

 

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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Vastet wrote:I read the

Vastet wrote:

I read the first chapter or so of the Hobbit when I was 8 or 9, and haven't touched Tolkein since. The movies were good, but as an author he sucks balls. And no, I don't care that he's one of he more respected writers in recent history. He didn't know the basics of how to write a good story. All he does is go on and on and on and on and on about pointless shit. It's kinda like reading the bible, just with a lot of fluff instead of darkness.

He was great and inventive with dialogue for his time, much like Twain imo.

 

Welcome new guy btw.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
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robj101 wrote:BobSpence1

robj101 wrote:

BobSpence1 wrote:

I read LOTR way back, and quite enjoyed them, but much preferred the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, by Stephen Donaldson - much more 'adult'.

 

I have the first two in the "Thomas Covenant the unbeliever" series and had totally forgotten about that, maybe I'll ebay and find out how far it went. I assume in the end his leprosy gets cured or something ><
 

 

Hehe, I didn't know anyone else read Donaldson.   I read the Thomas Covenant series (first six books) when I was learning English, I have a recollection of it as if I saw the movie drunk.  The story is there, but the details are vague.  I enjoyed it very much.  Apparently he's writing more in that series.  

I hardly read fiction anymore due to lack of time.  That is, other than religious works, that's kind of sad really.

And I think I was too old when I started reading LOTR, I was in my late teens, it annoyed the hell out of me, all those songs and poems... wow, it was a very tedious read, but worth the effort.  

The golden compass I've only read the first two, and that as I was learning English also.  I liked the storyline, but it seemed a bit childish.

Does anyone here read Dan Simmons?  I think he's probably one of the best fiction writers out there.  I have read all of his stuff as of 5 years ago.  His Hyperion series is amazing, and it has an interesting mix of Catholicism, Woo, and atheism in the storyline.  He's very good at what he does.  

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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Orionsninjabelt

Orionsninjabelt wrote:

Welcome! I'm new here too! If you haven't been there yet, I also strongly reccomend Reddit.com. I love the forums there. I mostly stick to r/atheism and related topics but there are so many that no matter what is on your mind you will find a subreddit to post your thoughts on.

Welcome new guy, enjoy the forum, it doesn't suck Smiling

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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Ktulu wrote:robj101

Ktulu wrote:

robj101 wrote:

BobSpence1 wrote:

I read LOTR way back, and quite enjoyed them, but much preferred the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, by Stephen Donaldson - much more 'adult'.

I have the first two in the "Thomas Covenant the unbeliever" series and had totally forgotten about that, maybe I'll ebay and find out how far it went. I assume in the end his leprosy gets cured or something ><

Hehe, I didn't know anyone else read Donaldson.   I read the Thomas Covenant series (first six books) when I was learning English, I have a recollection of it as if I saw the movie drunk.  The story is there, but the details are vague.  I enjoyed it very much.  Apparently he's writing more in that series.  

I hardly read fiction anymore due to lack of time.  That is, other than religious works, that's kind of sad really.

And I think I was too old when I started reading LOTR, I was in my late teens, it annoyed the hell out of me, all those songs and poems... wow, it was a very tedious read, but worth the effort.  

The golden compass I've only read the first two, and that as I was learning English also.  I liked the storyline, but it seemed a bit childish.

Does anyone here read Dan Simmons?  I think he's probably one of the best fiction writers out there.  I have read all of his stuff as of 5 years ago.  His Hyperion series is amazing, and it has an interesting mix of Catholicism, Woo, and atheism in the storyline.  He's very good at what he does.  

I just remembered I have the first two books in the final series of the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. I started to read the first book, was very impressed. It struck me as every bit as strong as the first six books. I decided then, based on previous experience, to wait until I had the whole of the new series before getting too far into it.

I hadn't found any more after the second one when I last tried, so I left it for then.

Talking about this has reminded me to have another look. I see that he released the third one late last year, but there is a fourth due out late 2013, according to Donaldson's official web-site - damn!

Do I just get the third one, start reading, or put them aside and wait another two years so I can read them straight through??

What happened to me when I started reading the first series, while he was still writing them. I got really into them, reading them avidly, one volume after another, till I got the end of one only to find out he was still writing the next one!

Someone else pointed me at Hyperion. I might find time to have a look at the series.

 

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Brian37
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mghtymth wrote: I'm sorry

mghtymth wrote:

 I'm sorry you don't like Disney. Sad 

And the Narnia series is wonderful, I loved reading the books, but I don't know if they translate that well into movies. I never really liked any of the movies except the first one.

It is a taste thing. I am not saying you are wrong for liking Disney cartoons. I simply myself want to smack the fucking smile of Mickey, he is too sappy sweet.

But I am a bit of a hypocrite. Look up the Warner Brother's cartoon called "Feed The Kitty" on Youtube. It stars a bulldog named Marc Antony and a kitten named Pussyfoot. That is my favorite cartoon of all time.

I've always been a fan of the Buggs Bunny cartoons. The Sheep Dog and the Coyote, Road Runner, ect.

 

 

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Ktulu wrote:robj101

Ktulu wrote:

robj101 wrote:

BobSpence1 wrote:

I read LOTR way back, and quite enjoyed them, but much preferred the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, by Stephen Donaldson - much more 'adult'.

 

I have the first two in the "Thomas Covenant the unbeliever" series and had totally forgotten about that, maybe I'll ebay and find out how far it went. I assume in the end his leprosy gets cured or something ><
 

 

Hehe, I didn't know anyone else read Donaldson.   I read the Thomas Covenant series (first six books) when I was learning English, I have a recollection of it as if I saw the movie drunk.  The story is there, but the details are vague.  I enjoyed it very much.  Apparently he's writing more in that series.  

I hardly read fiction anymore due to lack of time.  That is, other than religious works, that's kind of sad really.

And I think I was too old when I started reading LOTR, I was in my late teens, it annoyed the hell out of me, all those songs and poems... wow, it was a very tedious read, but worth the effort.  

The golden compass I've only read the first two, and that as I was learning English also.  I liked the storyline, but it seemed a bit childish.

Does anyone here read Dan Simmons?  I think he's probably one of the best fiction writers out there.  I have read all of his stuff as of 5 years ago.  His Hyperion series is amazing, and it has an interesting mix of Catholicism, Woo, and atheism in the storyline.  He's very good at what he does.  

I used to read a LOT, I got in trouble in school for reading. I have a freakin library but a paperback seems to average around $8 now and I can read the avg book in a few hours, kinda sux. Piers Anthony was probably my favorite author as a gradeschooler and it was nice to find out later he is an atheist. I made a book thread about it some time back I think.

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mghtymth
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Brian37 wrote:mghtymth

Brian37 wrote:

mghtymth wrote:

 I'm sorry you don't like Disney. Sad 

And the Narnia series is wonderful, I loved reading the books, but I don't know if they translate that well into movies. I never really liked any of the movies except the first one.

It is a taste thing. I am not saying you are wrong for liking Disney cartoons. I simply myself want to smack the fucking smile of Mickey, he is too sappy sweet.

But I am a bit of a hypocrite. Look up the Warner Brother's cartoon called "Feed The Kitty" on Youtube. It stars a bulldog named Marc Antony and a kitten named Pussyfoot. That is my favorite cartoon of all time.

I've always been a fan of the Buggs Bunny cartoons. The Sheep Dog and the Coyote, Road Runner, ect.

 

 

I really don't like the shorts that Disney produced with Goofy and Mickey. That is where I agree with you that Warner Bros. did better.

Now their movies, while still having their sweet endings, aren't always so sappy. There is The Hunchback of Notre Dame as my favorite example. And Feed the Kitty is really cute! Laughing out loud
Oh! and if you really want to spoil a really sweet Disney ending, think about what happens to all those kids still on Pleasure Island at the end of Pinocchio.

"Now shall you deal with me, oh prince! And all the powers of Hell!" - Maleficent AKA Mistress of All Evil