30 Arguments for a Young Earth
Offline I found a website that defends thirty young-earth proofs. It presents each argument briefly and then elaborates on it at great length. I didn't read the elaborations all that closely, but the argument summaries seem compelling.
Here are some examples:
Young-earth "proof" #1: The sun is shrinking at 5 feet/hour which limits the earth-sun relationship to less than 5 million years.
Young-earth "proof" #2: Given the rate at which cosmic dust accumulates, 4.5 billion years would have produced a layer on the moon much deeper than observed. By implication, the earth is also young.
Young-earth "proof" #3: The existence of short-period comets means that the universe is less than 10,000 years old. Comets and meteoroids only last from 10,000-15,000 years before they are blown apart by the solar wind.
Young-earth "proof" #4: There are no fossil meteorites in the geologic record. If the latter were laid down over billions of years we would expect to find at least a few fossil meteorites in the geologic strata. Therefore, the geologic record was deposited rapidly.
Young-earth "proof" #5: The Moon is receding a few inches each year. Less than a million years ago the Moon would have been so close that the tides would have drowned everyone twice a day. Less than 2 or 3 million years ago the Moon would have been inside the Roche limit and, thus, destroyed.
You can read more here: http://talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood-yea.html
Q: Why didn't you address (post x) that I made in response to you nine minutes ago???
A: Because I have (a) a job, (b) familial obligations, (c) social obligations, and (d) probably a lot of other atheists responded to the same post you did, since I am practically the token Christian on this site now. Be patient, please.
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Creation scientists say the earth is young, you don't say?
Tell you what, I'm a 1 day creation scientist and I say to you the earth was created yesterday. You only popped into existence by my gods will this morning you will know it as the time you "woke up". You have merely been programmed by my god to think you and this universe had a past. Everything is a facade and seems to fit with an older earth but it is all my gods doing. Prove me wrong.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
just the first one is debunked, it was never proven, even worse it's only creationist dumb as yourself pressup that believe that crap.
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1986/PSCF9-86VanTill.html
I will address some of the rest later, when I have more time, but really pressup, come on this is weak ass stuff to base your reason on a young earth, it just shows massive ignorance on your behalf.
We have choices, Pilgrim. Either you are a poe or your reading comprehension sucks.
That is the talkorigins website. A comprehensive response to stupid young earth and anti-evolution arguments. Each point you have copied is carefully and completely refuted as being total and complete baloney.
GMAFB
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
Atheists opposing legitimate scientists. Typical.
Q: Why didn't you address (post x) that I made in response to you nine minutes ago???
A: Because I have (a) a job, (b) familial obligations, (c) social obligations, and (d) probably a lot of other atheists responded to the same post you did, since I am practically the token Christian on this site now. Be patient, please.
That, sir, is a biased link.
Q: Why didn't you address (post x) that I made in response to you nine minutes ago???
A: Because I have (a) a job, (b) familial obligations, (c) social obligations, and (d) probably a lot of other atheists responded to the same post you did, since I am practically the token Christian on this site now. Be patient, please.
False dichotomy.
Q: Why didn't you address (post x) that I made in response to you nine minutes ago???
A: Because I have (a) a job, (b) familial obligations, (c) social obligations, and (d) probably a lot of other atheists responded to the same post you did, since I am practically the token Christian on this site now. Be patient, please.
Hundreds of millions of people don't.
And the numbers are growing...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
One of my favorite bits of evidence is that no rabbit, horse, man or anything that could prove a "young earth" has been found anywhere near a t-rex.
I'm pretty sure meteorites fragment on impact and then are quickly eroded by our fascinating weather system.
Maybe the sun is shrinking, even if it is how do they know it has been shrinking like this for billions of years? How do they know it wasn't expanding initially?
How do they know our sun is not just becoming more dense or something and pulling the moon a bit more. Consider this would mean it has been a gradual increase I don;t see how this could hold up.
I'm just stabbing in the dark here and I'm too lazy to actually look these up so I pulled some stuff out of my ass, like a creation scientist.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
that's nice, it still has reasons why the shrinking sun idea is daft, attack the actual points, don't just evade.
[edit] and if you even bothered to read the website you provided you would see that it pretty much demolishes those so called arguments for young earth.
You are the one quoting talkorigins as if the site supported creationism. Do you have a better explanation for your lack of comprehension?
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
You have yet to prove me wrong.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Begging the question.
Complex question.
Q: Why didn't you address (post x) that I made in response to you nine minutes ago???
A: Because I have (a) a job, (b) familial obligations, (c) social obligations, and (d) probably a lot of other atheists responded to the same post you did, since I am practically the token Christian on this site now. Be patient, please.
See above please.
That doesn't prove him wrong...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Yes, it does.
Q: Why didn't you address (post x) that I made in response to you nine minutes ago???
A: Because I have (a) a job, (b) familial obligations, (c) social obligations, and (d) probably a lot of other atheists responded to the same post you did, since I am practically the token Christian on this site now. Be patient, please.
It really shouldn't need proving anyway. It's right there in the Bible.
Q: Why didn't you address (post x) that I made in response to you nine minutes ago???
A: Because I have (a) a job, (b) familial obligations, (c) social obligations, and (d) probably a lot of other atheists responded to the same post you did, since I am practically the token Christian on this site now. Be patient, please.
I doubt that he can defeat himself so easily.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Cherry pick much Presup?
You post the "proofs" but ignore the statements that destroy them.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
The bible is tripe my god had made, he even left clues so you can tell it's bs. Everything you see that seems to be older than a day is all made up by my god and once again, you have been programmed to think you have memories predating this morning.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I don't cherry pick anything.
You can't ignore things that don't exist.
Q: Why didn't you address (post x) that I made in response to you nine minutes ago???
A: Because I have (a) a job, (b) familial obligations, (c) social obligations, and (d) probably a lot of other atheists responded to the same post you did, since I am practically the token Christian on this site now. Be patient, please.
Q: Why didn't you address (post x) that I made in response to you nine minutes ago???
A: Because I have (a) a job, (b) familial obligations, (c) social obligations, and (d) probably a lot of other atheists responded to the same post you did, since I am practically the token Christian on this site now. Be patient, please.
See, I should have been a creation scientist, I can pull stuff out of my ass and make that jesus work!
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
There's no need to prove things either way.
The bible is irrelevant literature.
That's why it's not adhered to, in any significant way.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
I think he's trying to mimic us, or at least mimic how he sees us.
Edit: Or maybe not. I don't know what he's doing. Maybe he's just bored.
Maybe he's just pulling things out of his ass =)
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
pwnd
Ó©9
Someone needs his meds adjusted.
theists are getting bored...
Dear Presuppositionalist ^_^ :
Although I believe in young Earth, I don't see any evidence in what you have provided ( or the site has mentioned ) ..
I just see science's craps was used to point out other craps in order to prove something right ( Earth is young ) .. Don't relay on science when you want to prove that science is wrong ^_~ .. That is the rule ^_^
Ja ne ~
Presup, you are an amusing Poe and troll, so I suppose I should thank you for making me laugh. But really, why come here just to bring up debunked crap?
Hungry,
Perfectly normal and valid for more updated and confirmed knowledge to discredit and supersede older knowledge. That is how knowledge advances.
If you believe in a young Earth, you clearly have no understanding of this sort of process, being stuck inside a totally discredited paradigm, supported only by the processes of wishful thinking and the self-delusion of faith and revelation.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
*BEEP* *BEEP* *BEEP*
Unconvinced Kapkao is fucking unconvinced!
"revelation" or Zoroastrian-inspired Book of Revelations???
Hard to tell given the subject matter...
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Eh....why are you linking to a page that presents your arguments and then debunks them?
Kthxbai.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Why do theists that present ontological arguments always eventually end up like this?
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Maybe because you have to have some mental problem to buy the OA in the first place.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
So you believe in a "young earth" rather than "I don't know" ?
The bible, koran or some other "holy" book must be your certainty?
I'm going with science and what little we actually do know, with certainty that someday we will know more, it beats blind faith hands down.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
"Maybe because you have to have some mental block to buy the OA in the first place."
fixt
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
So creation 'science' proves the bible is true. Christians no longer need faith to believe. But the bible tells us it is impossible to be saved or please Yahweh without faith.
So have you just proven that you're going to hell as well?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Dear Bob ^_^
Sir ^_^
That is true ^_^
I know that ^_^
Wrong ^_^
It has nothing to do with the "advancement of knowledge" process ^_~
You clearly want to attach something with me without any clue hehehehehehehehhe
believing in ( X ) and not believing in ( Y ) has something to do with proofs / evidences of each side .. It has nothing to do with the knowledge ..
Believing in ( X ) only without any knowing anything about ( Y ) has to do with what you are talking about ..
It's not a matter of updating or replacing the old knowledge ^_^
^_^
As I said before, I was a round-earther, accepting the big bang crap, reading science-fiction rubbish .. I used to read a lot about astronomy / space / galaxies etc etc ..
In short, I was "updated" .. Then I abandoned all these craps ( luckily ^_~ ) ..
Thus, I'm not stuck ^_^
You can think of it in the following way ( despite the differences ) :
You had some faith originally ( Christianity ) .. After reaching some level of knowledge / thinking / rationality, you abandoned Christianity and became an atheist >_<
So, you were at point A .. You considered your position and moved to point B .. Hence, you didn't stick in point A ^_~
It's exactly the same scenario with me ^.^
Now, may I ask why are you bothered if both of us have the same scenario ^_^ ?
yea yea yea ^_^
^_^
=====================
Dear robj ^_^ :
O_o !
Yes of course I believe in a young earth rather than "I don't know" !
and why should I say "I don't know" O_o ?
Yes, they are ^_^
I know that ^_^
tell me something I don't know please ^_^
All theists are going with science .. not only you !
and I'm going against "science" .. I know that too ^.^
What is your point ^_^ ?
^_^
You and your science know just crap about universe ^_^
First .. Which faith ^_^ ?
Second .. Don't be so sure ^_~
hehehehehhehehhehehehehe
^_^
Ja ne ~
Hungry,
small correction: I was never into any kind of faith.
We do not have anything like the same scenario.
Actually what you describe makes your position worse than I imagined - you apparently had some grasp of truth, and got sucked into a void of ignorance and delusion.
Whereas I have continued to advance in understanding - you have gone backwards.
Do you actually believe in a flat earth? That would be incredibly ignorant, and if you actually moved to that position, it is wilfully ignorant. Theism IS delusion.
I am genuinely sorry for you. Did you suffer a severe blow to the head??
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
I'm not quoting that whole weird jumble.
But why would you say believing in a young earth is better than being willing to admit you just don't know? What's so bad about not knowing? Does it make you feel good that religion gives you all the answers? Are you a better person because you can think a "god" created and manipulates everything? Is a person bad because they say they just don't know? Is a person bad because they doubt the existence of a deity which is based solely on the writings of other men?
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Probably just "I'm scared of the dark and I don't have all the answers...ooh shiny!"
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I think that is an OA onto itself, I'm having dejavu here, was this question already asked in a different thread?
If you are infinitely dumb to fall for an OA, presenting an OA that you fell for on an atheist board is dumber.
Well, you see where I'm going with this....
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
Lol. I think this exact point was discussed when the quality of Mr_Metaphysics' posts began declining.
You could use this to prove the existence of God.
P1 - God is defined as the entity which possesses an infinite attribute.
P2 - Infinitely dumb is defined as believing in the soundness of an ontological argument and presenting it to other people.
P3 - Mr_Metaphysics did this.
P4 - Ergo, Mr_Metaphysics is infinitely dumb.
P5- Ergo, he is God.
Conclusion - God exists!
Yay.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
This post killed me.
OP links to something hosted in a /hovind/ folder, then later "biased links" are a problem.
Everyone else is just posting in a troll thread from this point.
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Dear Bob ^_^ :
I apologize then ^_^'
I read somewhere here about people experience turning into atheists .. I might mistake you with someone else ^_^'
Sorry >_<
But, if I understand you, is that means both ( or at least one ) of your parents are / is atheist ?
Unless one of them is, you would had been raised as ( say Christian ) .. That is sort of faith I meant ^_^
You are right ^_^
it was my mistake ^_^
According to you, you haven't abandoned any faith .. It is just that you turned to be the one who stuck with a thing ( atheism in your case ) ^_~
hehehehehehhehehe
First .. I didn't say what I said to shine my position ^_~
For the time being, it doesn't matter if it is better or worse .. The thing is I'm not stuck ^.^
Second .. If you don't know this about me before my replay here, then that means you wasn't following my issue and "screening' in my first discussion >_<
If what science says is the meaning of 'truth', then I had most of the truth ( you could say the whole truth - up to my knowledge of course ) .. not only some ^_~
May be ^_^
May be not ^_~
^_^
Now, this is what I meant by ( despite the differences ) before explaining the situation ^_~
You move forward .. I move backward ..
You hold the truth .. I hold a myth ..
You are cleared .. I'm deluded ..
You are right .. I'm wrong ..
etc etc
The thing is the principle .. If you were a Christian and became atheist later, you and I are the same in moving from a position to another ^_^
I didn't talk about the positions .. I didn't mention who is right and who is wrong .. I didn't care who is better and who is worse ^_^
My focus was to deny the 'stuck' problem ^_^
Yes I do ^_^
Thank you ^_^
Still .. who knows ^_~
Thank you again ^_^
Still .. who knows ^_^
may be .. may be not ^_^
oooooooh .. That is so kind of you ^_^
hehehehehehhehehehehe
Unfortunately not ^_^
^_^
===============================
Dear robj ^_^ :
Do as you please ^_^
huh O_o !!
I didn't say that !
That is only your imagination ^_^'
Nothing is bad at all ..
I don't know many things ^.^
First .. Religion does NOT give me all the answers ^_^
Second .. If religion give all the answers, I would feel good of course since it will save me a lot of time and headache ^_~
First .. what do you mean by 'god manipulates everything' ?
Second .. No, I'm not a better person because I believe that god is the creator ^_^
Third .. There are atheists who are far better than Christians and Muslims ( theists in general ) in terms of manners / humanity / moralities .. Believing in god existence doesn't make you a better person ..
However, following the right order from god would make you a better person than some doesn't believe in god in term of moralities .. Not because the atheist is terrible, But because the right order from god will take you to best moralities ever ^_~
So .. you might, as an atheist, be a good person .. but there might some theist who is better than you ^_^
Saying you don't know is kind of humbling that god appreciate ^_~
I believe you misunderstand my words >_<
I didn't say there is a problem with ( I don't know ) .. Instead, I asked why do you expect me to say 'I don't know' for something I already know !
This does NOT mean that I know everything ^_^'
No ..
Not necessarily ^_^
A person MIGHT be bad or become bad if he knows that there is no punishment ( either from the community or the god ) ..
Nope ^^
If the deity is based on the writings of other men, and a person doubt the existence of the this man-made god, then this man is to be praised ^_~
If this man consider every deity in different religions as man-made god, then he is absolutely wrong and shouldn't be praised for this last consideration of him ^_^
^_^
Ja ne ~
I have just seen it all! A theist is quoting talkorigins.org as a defense of a young-earth creationist position?!? I hope he realizes that's like a Nazi using the Torah to support anti-Semitism!
I have to ask Presup, did you even read what was on that page? If you had, you wouldn't have concluded that those "proofs" did anything good for your cause.
Oh, like the "scientists" who are claiming that The Flintstones is a documentary or that in fact, magic does exist and Gandalf the White Wizard isn't that far off from the "real" Wizard in the sky? Yeah, it's because those idiots are not in any way scientists and are in fact, full of shit.
No it's not. Either you are intentionally deceiving us by putting on the crazy Christian bit, or your reading comprehension is so poor that you actually thought that that page supported your claims. So which is it? Poe or idiot?
And then, when you couldn't bring up any more "proofs", you turn to this little doosie:
If it was right in the "Holy" Babble, then why would you need science to prove your point? Oh yeah, that's because the "holy" Babble is a load of self-serving shit that only requires a cursory glance to see the glaring errors in it.
I do find this interesting:
So you believe the biblical claim that the earth is flat? That white people were around before black people? That bats are fowl? That rabbits chew cud? That light was around before light sources? That plants were around and alive before the sun was "created"? That a baby can develop with only one set of DNA? That the sun can "stop in the sky"?
Either you believe those lies along with the rest of the claims in that stupid book of fairy tales or you are cherry picking it to fit with your own preconceived ideas of what it should say and not what it says. So which is it? Are you dishonest or are you an idiot?
"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!