liberalism as the cause?

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liberalism as the cause?

Does this country seem to be failing and if so is it merely happenstance that as it has begun to do so so has liberalism prospered?

 Has morality seemed to have been shifted askew with the onset of generation x? Are the boundaries of "good" and "bad" now spread apart with more grey area? Is it less clear what morality we should follow? Is society struggling to understand it's self?

I personally as many others may tend to make fun of the 50's era. The perfect housewife, working dad, families eating at the table etc. But one thing about this era, the lines seemed to be more clearly drawn. Many lines seem to be shaken and unclear nowdays as America seems to be falling into shithole status. Is there a link here?

Politicians who run this country seem to be more cutthroat and self absorbed, the public who elects them seem to be completely ignorant and/or too stupified to do anything about it.

Or perhaps I am just imagining things and it's really just fine.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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robj101 wrote:Does this

robj101 wrote:

Does this country seem to be failing and if so is it merely happenstance that as it has begun to do so so has liberalism prospered?

Yes it is and I think it has a lot to do with liberalism.

Quote:
 Has morality seemed to have been shifted askew with the onset of generation x? Are the boundaries of "good" and "bad" now spread apart with more grey area? Is it less clear what morality we should follow? Is society struggling to understand it's self?
Yes. Yes. Yes and Yes. That's why I started the other thread...I'm beginning to question exactly what my moral belief system is and what it is based upon. Up until yesterday, I had no doubts.

Quote:
I personally as many others may tend to make fun of the 50's era. The perfect housewife, working dad, families eating at the table etc. But one thing about this era, the lines seemed to be more clearly drawn. Many lines seem to be shaken and unclear nowdays as America seems to be falling into shithole status. Is there a link here?
Yes, I think so.

Quote:
Politicians who run this country seem to be more cutthroat and self absorbed, the public who elects them seem to be completely ignorant and/or too stupified to do anything about it.
Eh, I think politicians have always been that way - they don't follow the same morality that the rest of us do.

Quote:
Or perhaps I am just imagining things and it's really just fine.

If you are imagining it, so am I. I don't think things are just fine at all.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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 Depends on what you mean

 Depends on what you mean by the country failing. Keynesian economics certainly has a lot to do with our economic problems and in the US Keynesian economics has been closely tied to those who support what we refer to as "liberal" social programs. We have had a shift from a society that creates and innovates, towards a society that doesn't. I would point towards economic factors for that as well as an increasing trend toward the welfare mentality. Our country is falling back in relative economic power and some of our politicians think that is a good thing. 

 

As far as a general breakdown of morality, certainly there have been changes which I think the internet and new tech is more responsible for than anything else. We have far more information about each other than we used to and when horrible things happen like that girl who got beat up in McDonalds, everyone sees it. 50 years ago, it would have been a local story. If you look back at history, you can see many instances where morals were loose and where they tightened up. Think prohibition era, wild west, gold rush etc. I think there is kind of a natural ebb and flow to such things. Just so that older generations can look at their kids and say "they are going to destroy us". Things have always been fucked up, looking back and thinking otherwise is usually just good old days syndrome. 

 

Politicians being more cutthroat and self absorbed? No. They have always been that way. Indeed, in the good old days they used to kill each other. In many respects the political argument today is virtually identical to the political arguments of the 30's and the public cares about as much as they did then.  

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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 I have been alive since

 I have been alive since 1959 and obviously for the first few years of my life my perception of the world was limited to my school, my friends and my family.  In retrospect,  I can look back and see the early sixties through the eyes of an adult.    It was a tumultuous time in the United States for many reasons that are not necessary to inumerate.

   In some ways I would like to return to the 60's.  In other ways I wouldn't.   Though, I much preferred an America when it's population was barely above 170 million. 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

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robj101 wrote:I personally

robj101 wrote:
I personally as many others may tend to make fun of the 50's era. The perfect housewife, working dad, families eating at the table etc. But one thing about this era, the lines seemed to be more clearly drawn. Many lines seem to be shaken and unclear nowdays as America seems to be falling into shithole status. Is there a link here?

I'm only just done growing up, and I had all those things.

So what lines would you like to see drawn more clearly and how ?

robj101 wrote:
Or perhaps I am just imagining things and it's really just fine.

Things seem fine to me, but then I don't live in your country.

Don't think I'd want to , really.

Not liberal enough.


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 It seems to me that this

 It seems to me that this country at this time has two major cultures, and both of them are vying for dominance.  


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RatDog wrote: It seems to

RatDog wrote:

 It seems to me that this country at this time has two major cultures, and both of them are vying for dominance.  

After a long run of mostly conservatism should liberalism have it's shot in full?

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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Anonymouse wrote:robj101

Anonymouse wrote:

robj101 wrote:
I personally as many others may tend to make fun of the 50's era. The perfect housewife, working dad, families eating at the table etc. But one thing about this era, the lines seemed to be more clearly drawn. Many lines seem to be shaken and unclear nowdays as America seems to be falling into shithole status. Is there a link here?

I'm only just done growing up, and I had all those things.

So what lines would you like to see drawn more clearly and how ?

robj101 wrote:
Or perhaps I am just imagining things and it's really just fine.

Things seem fine to me, but then I don't live in your country.

Don't think I'd want to , really.

Not liberal enough.

What lines? Exactly =)

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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ProzacDeathWish wrote: I

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 I have been alive since 1959 and obviously for the first few years of my life my perception of the world was limited to my school, my friends and my family.  In retrospect,  I can look back and see the early sixties through the eyes of an adult.    It was a tumultuous time in the United States for many reasons that are not necessary to inumerate.

   In some ways I would like to return to the 60's.  In other ways I wouldn't.   Though, I much preferred an America when it's population was barely above 170 million. 

Yea sheer numbers probably has a large hand in it. Squeeze 20 rats in a cage sized for two and they go crazy.

 

59' huh, am I the freakin youngster around here ><

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Depends on what you mean by the country failing. Keynesian economics certainly has a lot to do with our economic problems and in the US Keynesian economics has been closely tied to those who support what we refer to as "liberal" social programs. We have had a shift from a society that creates and innovates, towards a society that doesn't. I would point towards economic factors for that as well as an increasing trend toward the welfare mentality. Our country is falling back in relative economic power and some of our politicians think that is a good thing. 

 

As far as a general breakdown of morality, certainly there have been changes which I think the internet and new tech is more responsible for than anything else. We have far more information about each other than we used to and when horrible things happen like that girl who got beat up in McDonalds, everyone sees it. 50 years ago, it would have been a local story. If you look back at history, you can see many instances where morals were loose and where they tightened up. Think prohibition era, wild west, gold rush etc. I think there is kind of a natural ebb and flow to such things. Just so that older generations can look at their kids and say "they are going to destroy us". Things have always been fucked up, looking back and thinking otherwise is usually just good old days syndrome. 

 

Politicians being more cutthroat and self absorbed? No. They have always been that way. Indeed, in the good old days they used to kill each other. In many respects the political argument today is virtually identical to the political arguments of the 30's and the public cares about as much as they did then.  

Perhaps I should have taken it a bit further with the politicians. Ok so they have gone from good to very bad from the beginning of the country. But they are at what I consider the end of the rope. They are blatantly cutthroat and self absorbed now caring namely for the dollar and a retirement package, the people are not really even a secondary concern anymore. I say the end of the rope because how much more blatant about it can the get ? They don't have to sneak around anymore.

 

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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Sandycane wrote:robj101

Sandycane wrote:

robj101 wrote:

Does this country seem to be failing and if so is it merely happenstance that as it has begun to do so so has liberalism prospered?

Yes it is and I think it has a lot to do with liberalism.

Quote:
 Has morality seemed to have been shifted askew with the onset of generation x? Are the boundaries of "good" and "bad" now spread apart with more grey area? Is it less clear what morality we should follow? Is society struggling to understand it's self?
Yes. Yes. Yes and Yes. That's why I started the other thread...I'm beginning to question exactly what my moral belief system is and what it is based upon. Up until yesterday, I had no doubts.

Quote:
I personally as many others may tend to make fun of the 50's era. The perfect housewife, working dad, families eating at the table etc. But one thing about this era, the lines seemed to be more clearly drawn. Many lines seem to be shaken and unclear nowdays as America seems to be falling into shithole status. Is there a link here?
Yes, I think so.

Quote:
Politicians who run this country seem to be more cutthroat and self absorbed, the public who elects them seem to be completely ignorant and/or too stupified to do anything about it.
Eh, I think politicians have always been that way - they don't follow the same morality that the rest of us do.

Quote:
Or perhaps I am just imagining things and it's really just fine.

If you are imagining it, so am I. I don't think things are just fine at all.

Your moral belief system is based on environment, personal experience and society as a whole I think. Same as everyone else including the religious, they just blame theirs on "god". I think I mentioned that somewhere ...

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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robj101 wrote:What lines?

robj101 wrote:

What lines? Exactly =)

Just saying, I still see lines. I'm 17, and those things you mention from the 50s, I have that in my family.

So if clearly drawn lines are needed to have those things, well, then they're still there.

 

You sure you're not just having a midlife crisis, Rob ?


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robj101 wrote:I personally

robj101 wrote:

I personally as many others may tend to make fun of the 50's era. The perfect housewife, working dad, families eating at the table etc. But one thing about this era, the lines seemed to be more clearly drawn. Many lines seem to be shaken and unclear nowdays as America seems to be falling into shithole status. Is there a link here?

 

Yeah, you are a freaking infant.  I was born in December, 1950.  When I was 5 1/2 my grandfather died, my uncle had his own career, and so my grandmother owned and operated a trucking company.  My mother started working when I started school that September.  June Cleaver did not live at my house.

We did not attend church except very briefly.  My parents drank and smoked - cigarettes - and at various times, my mom was addicted to various prescription pills.  It was very odd growing as 98% of the other kids did not have a mom who wore jeans, swore like a truck driver and worked 44 hours a week except when she had two jobs and worked longer hours. 

The 1960s was not all it was cracked up to be either.  I was in jr high-high school-college during the 60s.  I had a friend show up at my door at 11 pm in her pajamas and bare feet and a brand new black eye her dad had just given her.  There was no child protective services then.  She had no recourse, legally or otherwise.  No place to go if her dad threw her out - again. 

In my high school, my freshman class was over 500 students.  Only about 280 graduated - about 45%.  And there is more reality but I won't bore everyone with it.  Suffice to say, it is just a fantasy about how great it was - in the 50s, 60s, .....

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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Anonymouse wrote:robj101

Anonymouse wrote:

robj101 wrote:

What lines? Exactly =)

Just saying, I still see lines. I'm 17, and those things you mention from the 50s, I have that in my family.

So if clearly drawn lines are needed to have those things, well, then they're still there.

 

You sure you're not just having a midlife crisis, Rob ?

lol whats a mid life crisis got to do with the fight between pc and non-pc, good and bad, right and wrong. We have conservatives and liberals both propping up islam, we have conservatives and liberals both fully against islam, (islam is just an easy example here). It's a mish mash of wtf.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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cj wrote:robj101 wrote:I

cj wrote:

robj101 wrote:

I personally as many others may tend to make fun of the 50's era. The perfect housewife, working dad, families eating at the table etc. But one thing about this era, the lines seemed to be more clearly drawn. Many lines seem to be shaken and unclear nowdays as America seems to be falling into shithole status. Is there a link here?

 

Yeah, you are a freaking infant.  I was born in December, 1950.  When I was 5 1/2 my grandfather died, my uncle had his own career, and so my grandmother owned and operated a trucking company.  My mother started working when I started school that September.  June Cleaver did not live at my house.

We did not attend church except very briefly.  My parents drank and smoked - cigarettes - and at various times, my mom was addicted to various prescription pills.  It was very odd growing as 98% of the other kids did not have a mom who wore jeans, swore like a truck driver and worked 44 hours a week except when she had two jobs and worked longer hours. 

The 1960s was not all it was cracked up to be either.  I was in jr high-high school-college during the 60s.  I had a friend show up at my door at 11 pm in her pajamas and bare feet and a brand new black eye her dad had just given her.  There was no child protective services then.  She had no recourse, legally or otherwise.  No place to go if her dad threw her out - again. 

In my high school, my freshman class was over 500 students.  Only about 280 graduated - about 45%.  And there is more reality but I won't bore everyone with it.  Suffice to say, it is just a fantasy about how great it was - in the 50s, 60s, .....

 

I figure the 50's era and leave it to beaver and andy griffith was an illusion, it's just what they seemed to "want" at the time or something. I like the tv show comparison, now television has the most dysfunctional families, simpsons, family guy married w/ children etc. We went from prim and proper to wtf as far as television goes nowdays lol, mtv jersey shore, Does this mean we "want" outrageous?

I stopped at a gas station once with my little sister, she was 10 at the time. These "kids" pull up at the pump next to us playing some rap music a guy is rappin about smokin dope and I swear he said "mother fucker" like 5x in a 10 second span. Of course I walked up and asked him to turn it down "I have a litle girl here". He did but when he pulled out of course he had to be a smart ass and start yelling how he was going to kick my ass ...lol

With my little sister again in wal-mart (and this has happened twice) 2 guys walking behind us and I overhear one of them saying how he would "hit that" the other one says something about her being too young, I spun around and glared at these fux who pointedly looked away. I would have punched them both if I thought I wouldn't go to jail.

I remember many such examples, What is going on today? Morals and values, I wanna say they are fuk'd up but then I wonder if there really are any outside of self for a lot of people.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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People did use to give you a

People did use to give you a greeting or at least respond when they walked past you on the street or in a store. People did used to hold a door and say thanks if you held one for them, what has happened? Now the young people are all walking around with a cell phone in their face and you are lucky to get any response at all out of them and most of the time if you do they are looking at you like ..wtf leave me alone.

Lets don't even get on driving, wow people act as if they are the only one on the road nowdays. I hate my courteous nature while driving sometimes because it just upsets me when I try to be courteous and other people do not.

People seem to be very detached from one another and self absorbtion is rampant. I have had loved ones admit to me that they really just don't give a fuck about someone they don't know and can't see. It's like they can hear some people are in the worst torment imaginable and they are like, "huh".

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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robj101 wrote:RatDog

robj101 wrote:

RatDog wrote:

 It seems to me that this country at this time has two major cultures, and both of them are vying for dominance.  

After a long run of mostly conservatism should liberalism have it's shot in full?

I don't really trust either party, and the idea of them having full power is unappealing to me.  I just want some people in government who are competent, and who can work together well enough to get things done.  

I don't really know what all the right answers for all of our problems are, but I know certain problems need to be solved. 

1)We need a comprehensive immigration policy and a way to both prevent illegal immigration, and deal with the illegal immigrates that are already here.  

2)We need deal with our mounting dept either through additional taxes, spending cuts or a combination between the two.  I'm not really sure if taxes alone can work so right now I'm leaning towards some kind of combination of taxes and cuts.   I personally think a flat tax would be a good idea.  

3)We need to work on our foreign policy both in matters of peace, and matters of war.  In regards to matters of war I don't think that the president should have so much power over it.   In regards to matters of peace really need to work out a strategy on how exactly we are going to fit into the expanding global economy 

4)We need to work out exactly what the Federal government has the right to regulate, and what it should keep it's hands off of.  A lot of things seem over regulated these day to the point it seem repressive.  One thing I think the Federal government should regulate more is financial markets.  I'm not sure all the schemes people in the financial markets come up with are really good for the economy.

5)We need to fix our school system.   I'm not really sure how this should be done, but I think that whatever is done should be based on what had been observed to work and not on what some people think should work.  

 

If we can work out these five issues in a satisfactory way I think the US will be all right.   I don't really trust either party to do it.  I almost wish would get ride of all the current politicians in office and just start over from scratch, but that would probably cause a lot of chaos and uncertainty.  

Edit: Grammar 


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RatDog wrote:robj101

RatDog wrote:

robj101 wrote:

RatDog wrote:

 It seems to me that this country at this time has two major cultures, and both of them are vying for dominance.  

After a long run of mostly conservatism should liberalism have it's shot in full?

I don't really trust either party, and the idea of them having full power is unappealing to me.  I just want some people in government who are competent, and who can work together well enough to get things done.  

I don't really know what all the right answers for all of our problems are, but I know certain problems need to be solved. 

1)We need a comprehensive immigration policy and a way to both prevent illegal immigration, and deal with the illegal immigrates that are already here.  

2)We need deal with our mounting dept either through additional taxes, spending cuts or a combination between the two.  I'm not really sure if taxes alone can work so right now I'm leaning towards some kind of combination of taxes and cuts.   I personally think a flat tax would be a good idea.  

3)We need to work on our foreign policy both in matters of peace, and matters of war.  In regards to matters of war I don't think that the president should have so much power over it.   In regards to matters of peace really need to work out a strategy on how exactly we are going to fit into the expanding global economy 

4)We need to work out exactly what the Federal government has the right to regulate, and what it should keep it's hands off of.  A lot of things seem over regulated these day to the point it seem repressive.  One thing I think the Federal government should regulate more is financial markets.  I'm not sure all the schemes people in the financial markets come up with are really good for the economy.

5)We need to fix our school system.   I'm not really sure how this should be done, but I think that whatever is done should be based on what had been observed to work and not on what some people think should work.  

 

If we can work out these five issues in a satisfactory way I think the US will be all right.   I don't really trust either party to do it.  I almost wish would get ride of all the current politicians in office and just start over from scratch, but that would probably cause a lot of chaos and uncertainty.  

Edit: Grammar 

I was actually talking about the social side more than political side, but I like what you are saying here anyway and agree with you.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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robj101 wrote:I figure the

robj101 wrote:

I figure the 50's era and leave it to beaver and andy griffith was an illusion, it's just what they seemed to "want" at the time or something. I like the tv show comparison, now television has the most dysfunctional families, simpsons, family guy married w/ children etc. We went from prim and proper to wtf as far as television goes nowdays lol, mtv jersey shore, Does this mean we "want" outrageous?

I stopped at a gas station once with my little sister, she was 10 at the time. These "kids" pull up at the pump next to us playing some rap music a guy is rappin about smokin dope and I swear he said "mother fucker" like 5x in a 10 second span. Of course I walked up and asked him to turn it down "I have a litle girl here". He did but when he pulled out of course he had to be a smart ass and start yelling how he was going to kick my ass ...lol

With my little sister again in wal-mart (and this has happened twice) 2 guys walking behind us and I overhear one of them saying how he would "hit that" the other one says something about her being too young, I spun around and glared at these fux who pointedly looked away. I would have punched them both if I thought I wouldn't go to jail.

I remember many such examples, What is going on today? Morals and values, I wanna say they are fuk'd up but then I wonder if there really are any outside of self for a lot of people.

 

Same happened then as now, just different words - but the meaning was/is the same.

If you were a little boy, you probably didn't pay attention - and no one should be surprised that a boy didn't pay attention to all that mushy stuff.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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cj wrote: Yeah, you are a

cj wrote:

 

Yeah, you are a freaking infant.  I was born in December, 1950.  When I was 5 1/2 my grandfather died, my uncle had his own career, and so my grandmother owned and operated a trucking company.  My mother started working when I started school that September.  June Cleaver did not live at my house.

...

I was born in '57.

Sounds like you had it pretty rough growing up.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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Sandycane wrote:cj

Sandycane wrote:

cj wrote:

 

Yeah, you are a freaking infant.  I was born in December, 1950.  When I was 5 1/2 my grandfather died, my uncle had his own career, and so my grandmother owned and operated a trucking company.  My mother started working when I started school that September.  June Cleaver did not live at my house.

...

I was born in '57.

Sounds like you had it pretty rough growing up.

I could tell yoll some horror stories.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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robj101 wrote:I was actually

robj101 wrote:
I was actually talking about the social side more than political side, but I like what you are saying here anyway and agree with you. 
 I think that on the social side liberalism is to intolerant of intolerant people.  They have villainized the other side so much they split the US in two.   I think that it would be nice if our country had a stronger self identity.  If we could just look at certain things as being American.  Even if it's only a lie and even if it is only for a while.  I don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe I'm just trying to say I wish things were simpler sometimes.  We make everything so complex.  Maybe the whole country should just relax, take a deep breath, and not worry so much.   


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Sandycane wrote:cj

Sandycane wrote:

cj wrote:

Yeah, you are a freaking infant.  I was born in December, 1950.  When I was 5 1/2 my grandfather died, my uncle had his own career, and so my grandmother owned and operated a trucking company.  My mother started working when I started school that September.  June Cleaver did not live at my house.

...

I was born in '57.

Sounds like you had it pretty rough growing up.

 

I lived through it -

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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robj101 wrote:I figure the

robj101 wrote:

I figure the 50's era and leave it to beaver and andy griffith was an illusion, it's just what they seemed to "want" at the time or something. I like the tv show comparison, now television has the most dysfunctional families, simpsons, family guy married w/ children etc. We went from prim and proper to wtf as far as television goes nowdays lol, mtv jersey shore, Does this mean we "want" outrageous?

I stopped at a gas station once with my little sister, she was 10 at the time. These "kids" pull up at the pump next to us playing some rap music a guy is rappin about smokin dope and I swear he said "mother fucker" like 5x in a 10 second span. Of course I walked up and asked him to turn it down "I have a litle girl here". He did but when he pulled out of course he had to be a smart ass and start yelling how he was going to kick my ass ...lol

With my little sister again in wal-mart (and this has happened twice) 2 guys walking behind us and I overhear one of them saying how he would "hit that" the other one says something about her being too young, I spun around and glared at these fux who pointedly looked away. I would have punched them both if I thought I wouldn't go to jail.

I remember many such examples, What is going on today? Morals and values, I wanna say they are fuk'd up but then I wonder if there really are any outside of self for a lot of people.

I don't know about the 50's but, the 60's were great as far as I can recall.

I lived half a block from my elementary school, which had one Black girl and one Black boy, the rest of us were white kids. We sat in our seats when told to and spoke only after we were called on to speak. The girls wore nice dresses, the boys wore nice pants and the teachers dressed in a professional, respectable way. We stood and recited the Pledge and sang the Star Spangled Banner every morning (NO prayers). We had one teacher for the entire year and only about 25 kids in the class. George Washington hung on the wall over the door and a flag in the corner near the blackboard.

After school, there was The Monkey's, The Adams Family, Leave it to Beaver, The Jetsons, Yogi Bear and The little Rascals. There were Barbie Dolls, Creepy Crawlers, Mouse Trap and Twister. Outside, we would ride bikes, skate and play on stilts. In the winter, we made snow forts in the snow banks at the side of the driveway or would ice skate on the pond.

No, it was good, not an illusion of good.

The only bad memories I have is of me screaming and kicking as my father carried me up to bed when I wanted to stay up- often with me clutching the couch cushion all the way up the stairs... and one day as I was walking home from school an older boy crossed the street to my side and side-kicked me in my thigh. I cried all the way home.

Life wasn't perfect but, it was pretty damn good.

Then the 70's came along, with hormones, and that's when I began to fuck things up for myself.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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Oh, and the music was great

Oh, and the music was great back then, too!

My Mom would actually take me, on the bus, once a week to the record store and let me buy a new record - and I would wear them out on my little 45rpm turntable, standing on the bed in front of the mirror with a hair brush for a microphone!

'I'm a leavin', on a jet plane...'

'War, huh, good god y'all, what is it good for...'

'Yummy, Yummy, Yummy, I've got love in my tummy...'

'Another Pleasant Valley Sunday, hey, hey...'

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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RatDog wrote: robj101

RatDog wrote:

 

robj101 wrote:
I was actually talking about the social side more than political side, but I like what you are saying here anyway and agree with you. 
 I think that on the social side liberalism is to intolerant of intolerant people.  They have villainized the other side so much they split the US in two.   I think that it would be nice if our country had a stronger self identity.  If we could just look at certain things as being American.  Even if it's only a lie and even if it is only for a while.  I don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe I'm just trying to say I wish things were simpler sometimes.  We make everything so complex.  Maybe the whole country should just relax, take a deep breath, and not worry so much.   

 

I wonder if we haven't "Americanized" the world so much that it has become meaningless to look at things as being "American"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6unDcYBQSpQ

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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Sandycane wrote:Oh, and the

Sandycane wrote:

Oh, and the music was great back then, too!

My Mom would actually take me, on the bus, once a week to the record store and let me buy a new record - and I would wear them out on my little 45rpm turntable, standing on the bed in front of the mirror with a hair brush for a microphone!

'I'm a leavin', on a jet plane...'

'War, huh, good god y'all, what is it good for...'

'Yummy, Yummy, Yummy, I've got love in my tummy...'

'Another Pleasant Valley Sunday, hey, hey...'

 

Sure...

chewy, chewy, chewy, always got a mouthful of sugar and I love her that way....

my boy lollipop, you make my heart go giddyup....

I prefer....

way down inside honey, you need it, I'm gonna give you my love...

lie in the dark where the shadows run from themselves..

I need a little sugar in my bowl, I need a little hot dog on my roll

(okay, so Bessie Smith is so not 60s or 70s but she is great)

Sitting on a park bench eying up little girls with bad intent

pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name

"kids are different today" I hear every mother say

well show me the way to the next whiskey bar

father, yes son, I want to kill you Mother..... I want to.....

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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robj101 wrote: Does this

robj101 wrote:

Does this country seem to be failing and if so is it merely happenstance that as it has begun to do so so has liberalism prospered?

 Has morality seemed to have been shifted askew with the onset of generation x? Are the boundaries of "good" and "bad" now spread apart with more grey area? Is it less clear what morality we should follow? Is society struggling to understand it's self?

I personally as many others may tend to make fun of the 50's era. The perfect housewife, working dad, families eating at the table etc. But one thing about this era, the lines seemed to be more clearly drawn. Many lines seem to be shaken and unclear nowdays as America seems to be falling into shithole status. Is there a link here?

Politicians who run this country seem to be more cutthroat and self absorbed, the public who elects them seem to be completely ignorant and/or too stupified to do anything about it.

Or perhaps I am just imagining things and it's really just fine.

I think, above all else, you could say that the Western World is comprised largely of a younger, self-serving generation, and also a generation that is highly desensitized to vice... to viciousness in general. Many of us are definitely desensitized  to things that, in a previous era, would have been unthinkable. Are we necessarily worse off? No, not really. The popular press tends to focus on negativity, because shock feeds Nielsen's ratings and sells newspapers more than uplifting reports do (apparently.)

But again, there's really no underestimating the "self-serving" aspect, out of all of this. For most people, they've been bombarded with nerve signals indicating that they're "special"; that they're someone 'important'. They'll hang around friends who'll likely feel the same way about themselves, and feed directly to an already inflated ego. Yet in every measurable aspect, nearly everyone is generally insignificant and expendable when compared to the species at large. Even if you have, say... a 7-digit figure income, your 'economic footprint' will only reach a few hundred people at most (though certainly not within US borders!)

 

Yes, as I've heard so eloquently stated elsewhere, the individual is weak; the organization is strong. That's perhaps the biggest difference between the first half of the 20th century and today, and my most educated guess is that the power ratio between individual and organization is only going to get more pronounced in the coming decades.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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RatDog wrote:  I think

RatDog wrote:

 

 

 I think that on the social side liberalism is too intolerant of intolerant people.  They have villainized the other side so much they split the US in two.   I think that it would be nice if our country had a stronger self identity.  If we could just look at certain things as being American.  Even if it's only a lie and even if it is only for a while.  I don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe I'm just trying to say I wish things were simpler sometimes.  We make everything so complex.  Maybe the whole country should just relax, take a deep breath, and not worry so much.   

 

  Not likely to happen.     Every political/religious school of thought that I can think of considers those who differ from them as possessing some form of intolerance.  Liberals, leftists, progressives, etc portray themselves as the exclusive purveyors of "tolerance" ( just like conservatives and their "family values" ) yet in many instances it's just an empty term.  Liberals have enemies and they work to negate their influence and replace them with their own.  Just like conservatives do.    I fear them both.

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination." Voltaire ( 1694-1778 )


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:RatDog

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

RatDog wrote:

 

 

 I think that on the social side liberalism is too intolerant of intolerant people.  They have villainized the other side so much they split the US in two.   I think that it would be nice if our country had a stronger self identity.  If we could just look at certain things as being American.  Even if it's only a lie and even if it is only for a while.  I don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe I'm just trying to say I wish things were simpler sometimes.  We make everything so complex.  Maybe the whole country should just relax, take a deep breath, and not worry so much.   

 

  Not likely to happen.     Every political/religious school of thought that I can think of considers those who differ from them as possessing some form of intolerance.  Liberals, leftists, progressives, etc portray themselves as the exclusive purveyors of "tolerance" ( just like conservatives and their "family values" ) yet in many instances it's just an empty term.  Liberals have enemies and they work to negate their influence and replace them with their own.  Just like conservatives do.    I fear them both.

 

I'm thinking the liberals have come out in the last 50 years or so and the conservatives pretty much had it for so long. Now the conservatives have turned into a rabid animal trying to defend a carcass and turn it into their own "Frankenstein". Now we have the crazy liberals vs the mad scientist conservatives. Again, where is moderation while this is happening.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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robj101 wrote:lol whats a

robj101 wrote:

lol whats a mid life crisis got to do with the fight between pc and non-pc, good and bad, right and wrong.

Yeah, I get those old people problems mixed up sometimes .

What I meant to say was, you seem a little grumpy. You sound like my dad in a bad mood, complaining about "kids these days" and stuff like that.

robj101 wrote:
We have conservatives and liberals both propping up islam, we have conservatives and liberals both fully against islam, (islam is just an easy example here). It's a mish mash of wtf.

We live in interesting times.


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cj wrote:Sure...chewy,

cj wrote:

Sure...

chewy, chewy, chewy, always got a mouthful of sugar and I love her that way....

my boy lollipop, you make my heart go giddyup....

I prefer....

way down inside honey, you need it, I'm gonna give you my love...

lie in the dark where the shadows run from themselves..

I need a little sugar in my bowl, I need a little hot dog on my roll

(okay, so Bessie Smith is so not 60s or 70s but she is great)

Sitting on a park bench eying up little girls with bad intent

pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name

"kids are different today" I hear every mother say

well show me the way to the next whiskey bar

father, yes son, I want to kill you Mother..... I want to.....

 

That was the 70's music for me, too... except the last three, I don't recognize them. And, that Bessie Smith song I heard for the first time a few weeks ago...cracked me up!  

 Advice... don't ever listen to Black Sabbath Paranoid while doing acid.

Speaking of drugs... remember when you could buy $5 worth of pot that half filled a baggie, sat around giggling and eating munchies?

The last time I took a hit from a joint, about 10 years ago, I felt like I had dropped acid - never again.

 

Life just seemed a lot less complicated when I was growing up than it is now for the younger generation... maybe it was just me and the environment I grew up in? I doubt it. Kids now have too many choices and too much 'stuff', it seems. Kids used to be happy with a cardboard box to play with... now they all want electronic gadgets that cost hundreds of $$ and have nothing to do with reality.

The last time my grandkids came to visit, their dad brought some kind of game he hooked to the t.v. for them to play with. Watching them play it, made me think of crackheads getting high. I actually participated in the snowboarding game and when it was finished I felt like I had consumed a pot of leaded coffee.  I can see now why most kids are out of touch with reality, have short attention spans and are wound up all the time.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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Anonymouse wrote:robj101

Anonymouse wrote:

robj101 wrote:

lol whats a mid life crisis got to do with the fight between pc and non-pc, good and bad, right and wrong.

Yeah, I get those old people problems mixed up sometimes .

What I meant to say was, you seem a little grumpy. You sound like my dad in a bad mood, complaining about "kids these days" and stuff like that.

robj101 wrote:
We have conservatives and liberals both propping up islam, we have conservatives and liberals both fully against islam, (islam is just an easy example here). It's a mish mash of wtf.

We live in interesting times.

Yea I don't like some of the music these kids listen to either, all this hip grinding and stuff, it's evil I tell ya! ..lol.

But maybe your dad has a point even through this smoke of cliche.

"Interesting" is a nice way to put it.

 

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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Sandycane wrote:cj

Sandycane wrote:

cj wrote:

Sure...

chewy, chewy, chewy, always got a mouthful of sugar and I love her that way....

my boy lollipop, you make my heart go giddyup....

I prefer....

way down inside honey, you need it, I'm gonna give you my love...

lie in the dark where the shadows run from themselves..

I need a little sugar in my bowl, I need a little hot dog on my roll

(okay, so Bessie Smith is so not 60s or 70s but she is great)

Sitting on a park bench eying up little girls with bad intent

pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name

"kids are different today" I hear every mother say

well show me the way to the next whiskey bar

father, yes son, I want to kill you Mother..... I want to.....

 

That was the 70's music for me, too... except the last three, I don't recognize them. And, that Bessie Smith song I heard for the first time a few weeks ago...cracked me up!  

 Advice... don't ever listen to Black Sabbath Paranoid while doing acid.

Speaking of drugs... remember when you could buy $5 worth of pot that half filled a baggie, sat around giggling and eating munchies?

The last time I took a hit from a joint, about 10 years ago, I felt like I had dropped acid - never again.

 

Life just seemed a lot less complicated when I was growing up than it is now for the younger generation... maybe it was just me and the environment I grew up in? I doubt it. Kids now have too many choices and too much 'stuff', it seems. Kids used to be happy with a cardboard box to play with... now they all want electronic gadgets that cost hundreds of $$ and have nothing to do with reality.

The last time my grandkids came to visit, their dad brought some kind of game he hooked to the t.v. for them to play with. Watching them play it, made me think of crackheads getting high. I actually participated in the snowboarding game and when it was finished I felt like I had consumed a pot of leaded coffee.  I can see now why most kids are out of touch with reality, have short attention spans and are wound up all the time.

It doesn't seem very complicated for kids, their parents have no expectations for them. Most of the parents I know treat their kids like unwanted baggage.

As you just mentioned they will put them in front of a tv to watch reruns of hanna montana or some x-box game. The parents will also watch whatever they want to with no worry about what the kids are seeing. I know a 9 year old girl who's parents let her watch the "Saw" series. Somethings wrong with that imo.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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Sandycane wrote:cj wrote:I

Sandycane wrote:

cj wrote:

I prefer....

way down inside honey, you need it, I'm gonna give you my love...

lie in the dark where the shadows run from themselves..

I need a little sugar in my bowl, I need a little hot dog on my roll

(okay, so Bessie Smith is so not 60s or 70s but she is great)

Sitting on a park bench eying up little girls with bad intent

pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name

"kids are different today" I hear every mother say

well show me the way to the next whiskey bar

father, yes son, I want to kill you Mother..... I want to.....

 

That was the 70's music for me, too... except the last three, I don't recognize them. And, that Bessie Smith song I heard for the first time a few weeks ago...cracked me up!  

 Advice... don't ever listen to Black Sabbath Paranoid while doing acid.

 

I have never done acid, and my experience with pot is being in the same room when other people were smoking.  I hate being out of control of my own body.  It's why I quit drinking, it's why I never did the drug scene.  I have never smoked pot because to me it smells like rabbit shit.  You have to have raised rabbits that ate only alfalfa to understand.

Anyone want to do a contest?  Name my songs and bands......

 

Sandycane wrote:

Speaking of drugs... remember when you could buy $5 worth of pot that half filled a baggie, sat around giggling and eating munchies?

The last time I took a hit from a joint, about 10 years ago, I felt like I had dropped acid - never again.

 

I have a friend who does medical marijuana.  She doesn't smoke it, she makes a tincture by cooking some buds in grape seed oil at low temperature for close to a week.  She once loaned me some when my knees were acting up.  No pain.  No high.  Slept really well for the first time in weeks.  My mouth felt like it was going to split open it was so dry.  Decided the dry mouth was too much and so I don't use it.

 

Sandycane wrote:

Life just seemed a lot less complicated when I was growing up than it is now for the younger generation... maybe it was just me and the environment I grew up in? I doubt it. Kids now have too many choices and too much 'stuff', it seems. Kids used to be happy with a cardboard box to play with... now they all want electronic gadgets that cost hundreds of $$ and have nothing to do with reality.

The last time my grandkids came to visit, their dad brought some kind of game he hooked to the t.v. for them to play with. Watching them play it, made me think of crackheads getting high. I actually participated in the snowboarding game and when it was finished I felt like I had consumed a pot of leaded coffee.  I can see now why most kids are out of touch with reality, have short attention spans and are wound up all the time.

 

You sound like my mom.  My grandmother never said stuff like that.  I try to follow my grandmother's example.  The world is not going to hell in a hand basket just because women have the vote.

And in my high school while I was attending, there was a huge drug problem I was totally oblivious to.  Never knew you could get pot and pills and acid and so on .....

And games are made to suck you in so you will buy more.  Lots of conditioning techniques within the game to keep you playing and wanting more.  I can hunt up the website that lists a bunch of them if you want.  It is all based on BF Skinner's work.  Just like advertising which also tries to psych you out.  We are being manipulated all of the time.

Watch and choose what you will be hooked on.  You don't have to suck into it if you don't want to.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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I think a big part of the

I think a big part of the problem now in the USA is overpopulation. So we're becoming just like all the overpopulated 3rd world with crushing debt a permanent class of poor and unemployed. In the past, the country was big and seemed to have unlimited resources there to be exploited. Since the 70's we've been running into the problem of too many people and too few resources. So it's a pretty new phenomena for the country to deal with.

So I don't think it matters what political party is in power. The USA is now becoming like a 3rd world country with crushing debt a permanent class of poor and unemployed. You put a bunch of rats in a cage no matter how big, overpopulation will eventually cause starvation and fighting over the resources and wealth. So morality is thrown out the window in the battle to survive. People aren't going to be compassionate when there are too many people in need.

The only thing that could change this is the rise rational political party that is neither left or right, where the rules and policies are based on proven science.

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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cj wrote:I have a friend who

cj wrote:

I have a friend who does medical marijuana.  She doesn't smoke it, she makes a tincture by cooking some buds in grape seed oil at low temperature for close to a week.  She once loaned me some when my knees were acting up.  No pain.  No high.  Slept really well for the first time in weeks.  My mouth felt like it was going to split open it was so dry.  Decided the dry mouth was too much and so I don't use it.

That's called 'cotton mouth.

 

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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Yea, liberalism sucks. Like

Yea, liberalism sucks. Like when we had higher taxes and cheaper health care and virtually free higher education. Yea, we had all that until Regan and ever since it has been all down hill.

We are failing because wages are not keeping up with the cost of living. We are failing because big pharma and health insurance companies have monopolies. We are failing because banks and oil have paid off congress to look the other way while they set up a rigged Wall Street where you can bet both to win and lose and dump the loses off on the tax payers.

Liberalism sucks because it wants to actually keep jobs here, and not just low paying jobs, but industry jobs that the middle class was built on after WW2.

Liberalism sucks because we don't want to see a day when the EMT checks your credit score before they administer aid. Although we might as well be there.

I agree we are failing, but because of both parties being bought off by the top 2 percent who have set up a system that has created privatized profits and socialized losses.

NOW HERE COME THE CRYBABIES,

You hate the free market.

NO!

Ideas always sound nice on paper, it is the track record in HOW those ideas are implemented that are the judge.

The free market as it has been implemented for the past 30 years has destroyed what that same free market did after WW2. So the idea of the free market is not the problem, the WAY it has been deregulated and the laws that those at the top have paid to have written are what are eroding our economy.

ANYTHING left to it's own devices without a check on it will become abusive. Religion, politics, economy all can be exploited.

I simply see an abuse of power at the top that is simply creating a society where  only those who have money have any say and use that money to pay off congress and marketing firms to get sell the public things that are NOT within their self interest.

A healthy free market is not abused like the one we have now.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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EXC wrote:I think a big part

EXC wrote:

I think a big part of the problem now in the USA is overpopulation. So we're becoming just like all the overpopulated 3rd world with crushing debt a permanent class of poor and unemployed. In the past, the country was big and seemed to have unlimited resources there to be exploited. Since the 70's we've been running into the problem of too many people and too few resources. So it's a pretty new phenomena for the country to deal with.

So I don't think it matters what political party is in power. The USA is now becoming like a 3rd world country with crushing debt a permanent class of poor and unemployed. You put a bunch of rats in a cage no matter how big, overpopulation will eventually cause starvation and fighting over the resources and wealth. So morality is thrown out the window in the battle to survive. People aren't going to be compassionate when there are too many people in need.

The only thing that could change this is the rise rational political party that is neither left or right, where the rules and policies are based on proven science.

 

Yea I had the grand Idea of starting the "Common Sense Party", motto is Common sense for the common good.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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Brian37 wrote: ANYTHING

Brian37 wrote:

 

ANYTHING left to it's own devices without a check on it will become abusive. Religion, politics, economy all can be exploited.

I simply see an abuse of power at the top that is simply creating a society where  only those who have money have any say and use that money to pay off congress and marketing firms to get sell the public things that are NOT within their self interest.

A healthy free market is not abused like the one we have now.

 

I agree with that part.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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Brian37 wrote:Yea,

Brian37 wrote:

Yea, liberalism sucks. Like when we had higher taxes and cheaper health care and virtually free higher education. Yea, we had all that until Regan and ever since it has been all down hill.

 

Ah yes, before that evil Reagan took over it was all grand. Puppy dogs ran through unpolluted fields and farts produced flowers. And we had this: 

 

 

 

And this: 

 

For those who don't know, the "Misery Index" is computed by adding the unemployment rate and the CPI inflation rate. Throughout the 70's the inflation rate often went into the double digits. In the 2000's the worst inflation we have had so far was an annual rate of 5.6% in July 2008.

 

Oh yes, everything in the world was peachy before Reagan took over........especially if you used hallucinagins.   

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


ProzacDeathWish
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EXC wrote:I think a big part

EXC wrote:

I think a big part of the problem now in the USA is overpopulation. So we're becoming just like all the overpopulated 3rd world with crushing debt a permanent class of poor and unemployed. In the past, the country was big and seemed to have unlimited resources there to be exploited. Since the 70's we've been running into the problem of too many people and too few resources. So it's a pretty new phenomena for the country to deal with.

So I don't think it matters what political party is in power. The USA is now becoming like a 3rd world country with crushing debt a permanent class of poor and unemployed. You put a bunch of rats in a cage no matter how big, overpopulation will eventually cause starvation and fighting over the resources and wealth. So morality is thrown out the window in the battle to survive. People aren't going to be compassionate when there are too many people in need.

The only thing that could change this is the rise rational political party that is neither left or right, where the rules and policies are based on proven science.

 

    I completely agree with that assessment.

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination." Voltaire ( 1694-1778 )