Atheism and struggling through life?

rybak303
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Atheism and struggling through life?

Being an atheist seems much easier when things are good and you are relatively happy.  But what about when life is really painful and you don't want to go on anymore?  Why struggle at all?  I mean if this world is all that there is why should certain people who don't have much to look forward to continue living?  Why bother going through pain and suffering if there is no promise of Heaven, good and evil are just perspectives and don't really exist, and if it is inevitable that we all will return to nothingness?


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 Why not go on?

 Why not go on?


B166ER
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ummm...

Seeing as this is the only life any of us have, no matter what personal delusions you hold that would state otherwise, why would someone want to end it before they have to? From what I've seen, happiness and sadness have nothing to do with a person's acceptance of the scientific evidence we find in this reality which lead many to atheism. As far as I've seen, it's usually the theists who's beliefs falter when faced with difficult times, whereas the atheist just accepts it as part of life and continues on if they so choose.

"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
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You could better ask a

You could better ask a believer having a difficult life, why not cut it short and go straight to heaven? Why put up with a painful mortal life?

Why would a just and merciful God not let you straight into heaven if things have gone so badly for you here?

Or is the believer actually even more terrified of the possibility of being sent to hell if he fails the 'test'?

At least the atheist has the option of ending it all without worrying about the possibility of ending up in Hell...

Sorry, your idea doesn't fly.

 

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

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I imagine statisticly more

I imagine statisticly more christians commit suicide. I also imagine if there were more atheists we wouldn't throw away so many lives in pointless wars.

I don't believe in any supernatural bs so if things are going badly it is likely my own damn fault so why wouldn't I just try to do better?

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
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Being this my only life I do

Being this my only life I do have, why wouldn't I want continue living? Even in the hard times, and there have been hard times in my life, i'd rather live it to the end, then end my own life (although I would consider ending my life if I had a terminal disease that would cause nothing but pain in the end). My hard times have always come out better than going in, so it makes no sense for me to end my life prematurely.

 


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rybak303 wrote:I mean if

rybak303 wrote:
I mean if this world is all that there is why should certain people who don't have much to look forward to continue living?

Maybe they shouldn't.

Quote:
Why bother going through pain and suffering if there is no promise of Heaven,

Why bother going through pain and suffering if there is a promise of heaven? Why not kill yourself?

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Tell me this isn't some

Tell me this isn't some quacky theistic attempt to conflate the promises of afterlife with either morality or drive to continue living...

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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"Why bother going through

"Why bother going through pain and suffering if there is a promise of heaven?  Why not kill yourself?"

 

That's a good point, which is why most religions deter suicide by explicitly saying you can't reach heaven by killing yourself.  I'm actually not trying to argue with anyone here, actually rather I'm trying to find out what most atheists fight for when times are tough or seem hopeless.  Whether they're real or delusions religions have it easy, they can all point to the promise of heaven if you fight the good fight.  Atheism is a little trickier because any and all promises have to come in this life on this earth but for many people this life on this earth isn't much.  What do they fight for?  Take for example the atheist adds that atheist put on the buses in London which read: "There's probably no God.  Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."  That sells great in London, but imagine trying to sell that add it a Soviet Gulag in the 1930's.  Or heck, for the sake of it lets go back to 21st century London, try selling that add to the parents of a child with terminal cancer.  What does an atheist tell these people to comfort them or give them resolve?  I'm not trying to argue or tear down atheism, I think atheists have many, many valid points in regards to reason, evidence, false beliefs and so forth but life can be hell and what do philosophic or emotional argument do atheists have to give to a parent of a child with terminal cancer or a Soviet Gulag prisoner in 1930?  I really want to know, it would help me alot and it would also really dampen the enthusiasm for delusions and false beliefs. 


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Heaven on death but suicide

Heaven on death but suicide can get you to hell, circles are handy.

The people that didn't hear about jesus "oh they all go to heaven by default." handy.

People die at an early age or are born so deformed they can't survive "oh thats just god working in mysterious ways, those people also get to go to heaven by default." Handy.

People torture kill and eat animals "oh, animals don't have souls" same went for slaves, handy.

"I have never seen a crocoduck" handy.

I have never seen a god and the hubble telecope hasn't either. "That's because god is outside space and time." Handy.

When your shit is made up you can make up anything to go with it.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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Theists are really in no

Theists are really in no better position than we are. We can't help being most directly affected by our immediate circumstances, whatever our world-view.

We can both hope that things might improve in the not too distant future. The extra promise of an ultimate 'reward' or hope, is by no means certain, even to the believer. They also have the real prospect of the reverse, finding themselves in 'the other place'. 

We both may have hope, even unreasonable, irrational hope, we just think of it in different terms. And we can both lose hope for relief in this life. These are the basics, whether people are inclined to wrap them in religious motifs or not.

People who are inclined to 'faith' are probably going to find comfort there, whereas I would be repulsed by the idea of comforting myself with a belief that could not be justified apart from that comfort. It may be a harsher prospect, but I put a higher value on intellectual honesty, and try to evaluate my prospects as realistically as possible.

Certainly, religion tends to be stronger in impoverished countries, precisely because it does offer some consolation. 

It is also an mistake to think that human emotions and feelings are based largely on 'rational' appreciation of our situation. Just because it seems 'logical' that someone without a 'heaven' to look forward to would be more prone to depression when times are hard, does not mean that is how they are actually most likely to feel.

 

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


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rybak303 wrote:That's a good

rybak303 wrote:
That's a good point, which is why most religions deter suicide by explicitly saying you can't reach heaven by killing yourself.

Yeah, figures.

Can you send other people to heaven?

rybak303 wrote:
I'm actually not trying to argue with anyone here, actually rather I'm trying to find out what most atheists fight for when times are tough or seem hopeless.

Stuff in this life.

rybak303 wrote:
Whether they're real or delusions religions have it easy, they can all point to the promise of heaven if you fight the good fight.

Sure. Religions can be good emotional crutches. That's partly why they exist.

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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rybak303 wrote: "Why bother

rybak303 wrote:

"Why bother going through pain and suffering if there is a promise of heaven?  Why not kill yourself?"

 

That's a good point, which is why most religions deter suicide by explicitly saying you can't reach heaven by killing yourself.  I'm actually not trying to argue with anyone here, actually rather I'm trying to find out what most atheists fight for when times are tough or seem hopeless.  Whether they're real or delusions religions have it easy, they can all point to the promise of heaven if you fight the good fight.  Atheism is a little trickier because any and all promises have to come in this life on this earth but for many people this life on this earth isn't much.  What do they fight for?  Take for example the atheist adds that atheist put on the buses in London which read: "There's probably no God.  Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."  That sells great in London, but imagine trying to sell that add it a Soviet Gulag in the 1930's.  Or heck, for the sake of it lets go back to 21st century London, try selling that add to the parents of a child with terminal cancer.  What does an atheist tell these people to comfort them or give them resolve?  I'm not trying to argue or tear down atheism, I think atheists have many, many valid points in regards to reason, evidence, false beliefs and so forth but life can be hell and what do philosophic or emotional argument do atheists have to give to a parent of a child with terminal cancer or a Soviet Gulag prisoner in 1930?  I really want to know, it would help me alot and it would also really dampen the enthusiasm for delusions and false beliefs. 

 

In 2009, in the Carolinas - North, I think - a mother sold her 5 year old daughter to a man who raped and then strangled the baby.  I can go look up the news reports if you want, I wouldn't make this up.

How is it comforting to believe in some god that would allow this?  It was his plan?  To torture a 5 year old girl to death?  (Being raped by an adult male is torture when you are that small.)  There was/is surely some good out of it?  Like, what?  God wanted her in heaven?  So why the fuck couldn't he just have stopped her heart while she was asleep?  You think this is comforting?

My mother spent the last year of her life in a nursing home.  All those old people, most of whom were believers.  God/s/dess must be sadistic and hate old people.

Why is it comforting to believe god/s/dess created cancer or political prisons?  As I understand, Satan is incapable of creation, only god/s/dess can create.  So s/he/it/they must have been the one(s) creating all the bad shit.  This is comforting?  To kiss up to someone who tortures you to give you an opportunity prove you love them?  In my world, that is called abuse.

How do I make it through the day without god/s/dess?  One foot in front of the other.  A purpose?  My purpose is to attempt to make my corner of the world just a little better than I found it.  Mind you, some days I succeed better than others and some days my definition of "better" fluctuates.  You know, unless you are receiving tweets from god/s/dess, you don't have any better grasp on what your purpose in life is than any other person, atheist or theist.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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cj wrote:rybak303 wrote:

cj wrote:

rybak303 wrote:

"Why bother going through pain and suffering if there is a promise of heaven?  Why not kill yourself?"

 

That's a good point, which is why most religions deter suicide by explicitly saying you can't reach heaven by killing yourself.  I'm actually not trying to argue with anyone here, actually rather I'm trying to find out what most atheists fight for when times are tough or seem hopeless.  Whether they're real or delusions religions have it easy, they can all point to the promise of heaven if you fight the good fight.  Atheism is a little trickier because any and all promises have to come in this life on this earth but for many people this life on this earth isn't much.  What do they fight for?  Take for example the atheist adds that atheist put on the buses in London which read: "There's probably no God.  Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."  That sells great in London, but imagine trying to sell that add it a Soviet Gulag in the 1930's.  Or heck, for the sake of it lets go back to 21st century London, try selling that add to the parents of a child with terminal cancer.  What does an atheist tell these people to comfort them or give them resolve?  I'm not trying to argue or tear down atheism, I think atheists have many, many valid points in regards to reason, evidence, false beliefs and so forth but life can be hell and what do philosophic or emotional argument do atheists have to give to a parent of a child with terminal cancer or a Soviet Gulag prisoner in 1930?  I really want to know, it would help me alot and it would also really dampen the enthusiasm for delusions and false beliefs. 

 

In 2009, in the Carolinas - North, I think - a mother sold her 5 year old daughter to a man who raped and then strangled the baby.  I can go look up the news reports if you want, I wouldn't make this up.

How is it comforting to believe in some god that would allow this?  It was his plan?  To torture a 5 year old girl to death?  (Being raped by an adult male is torture when you are that small.)  There was/is surely some good out of it?  Like, what?  God wanted her in heaven?  So why the fuck couldn't he just have stopped her heart while she was asleep?  You think this is comforting?

My mother spent the last year of her life in a nursing home.  All those old people, most of whom were believers.  God/s/dess must be sadistic and hate old people.

Why is it comforting to believe god/s/dess created cancer or political prisons?  As I understand, Satan is incapable of creation, only god/s/dess can create.  So s/he/it/they must have been the one(s) creating all the bad shit.  This is comforting?  To kiss up to someone who tortures you to give you an opportunity prove you love them?  In my world, that is called abuse.

How do I make it through the day without god/s/dess?  One foot in front of the other.  A purpose?  My purpose is to attempt to make my corner of the world just a little better than I found it.  Mind you, some days I succeed better than others and some days my definition of "better" fluctuates.  You know, unless you are receiving tweets from god/s/dess, you don't have any better grasp on what your purpose in life is than any other person, atheist or theist.

 

You know they don't consider god when it comes to the bad things.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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rybak303 wrote:"Why bother

rybak303 wrote:

"Why bother going through pain and suffering if there is a promise of heaven?  Why not kill yourself?"

 

That's a good point, which is why most religions deter suicide by explicitly saying you can't reach heaven by killing yourself.  I'm actually not trying to argue with anyone here, actually rather I'm trying to find out what most atheists fight for when times are tough or seem hopeless.  Whether they're real or delusions religions have it easy, they can all point to the promise of heaven if you fight the good fight.  Atheism is a little trickier because any and all promises have to come in this life on this earth but for many people this life on this earth isn't much.  What do they fight for?  Take for example the atheist adds that atheist put on the buses in London which read: "There's probably no God.  Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."  That sells great in London, but imagine trying to sell that add it a Soviet Gulag in the 1930's.  Or heck, for the sake of it lets go back to 21st century London, try selling that add to the parents of a child with terminal cancer.  What does an atheist tell these people to comfort them or give them resolve?  I'm not trying to argue or tear down atheism, I think atheists have many, many valid points in regards to reason, evidence, false beliefs and so forth but life can be hell and what do philosophic or emotional argument do atheists have to give to a parent of a child with terminal cancer or a Soviet Gulag prisoner in 1930?  I really want to know, it would help me alot and it would also really dampen the enthusiasm for delusions and false beliefs. 

I can't speak for anyone else, for myself however, I approach almost everything important in life with a taoistic-ish philosophy, without all the supernatural BS.  Basically, I try to focus as much as possible on the action at hand.  It's a very basic philosophy, become what you do.  For example, if you clear the driveway of snow, concentrate on the task at hand, focus and clear your mind, and do the best that you can.  Extrapolate that to everything else, allowing for the fact that we're human and quite fallible.  I've also decided a long time ago that self pity is a waste of time, and probably the root of most evil in the world.  That poor me shit disgusts me.  

That gets me through pretty much everything.  Firstly, when tested by a hardship, I concentrate on how to make it better rather than why it sucks so badly.  Secondly I don't let self pity take me down a slippery slope where I would entertain the thought of suicide.  Most times I come up with a spartan outlook on things that helps me filter out the majority of the emotional baggage.  

Our self preservation instincts are strong, but our emotional and fucked up psyche can overcome almost every instinct.  All you have to do is listen to your instincts, if you find it emotionally painful to think of something, stop fucking dwelling on it.  It's harsh, but move on, you live longer and better.  We're only human Smiling

 

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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For years, when my life was

For years, when my life was 'great', I also happened to be religious. Around the time I became an atheist I had to undergo some of the hardest difficulties of my life, but my lack of faith was strong enough not to waver on the nonexistence of Allah.

Because, regardless, I was happier as an atheist in hardship than a theist in paradise. Why? Because at least I was suffering as someone who was intellectually honest with himself, knew who he was. I was not aiming for a claustrophobic goal, constantly worrying about the judgement of Allah. At any given point, whether in sickness or in health, I could look at myself and say, "I believe in something I know is verifiable. I live my life by the limits of truth. And I've explored those limits to help me understand the world beautifully and inimitably."

And, I could trust my own judgement of the world. When I began revisiting the great works of literary human heritage, I no longer had to keep asking myself what Allah thought about it. I no longer had to live in an uncomfortable worldview where everything I thought had to be censored by the mullahs before becoming a legitimate belief. I no longer had to wonder if my favourite author would be going to hell because he happened to be an atheist or a homosexual.

Skepticism set me free, and it ensures I will die a free man. I can't ask any more than that. And that is the very root of all the happiness which pervades my life.

Is freedom of thought and character worth the price of a "celestial North Korea, worshipping the son and the father"? Is that more beautiful to look forward to than a life which you can help mold into happiness, after your (usually) temporal suffering is over?


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  Not believing opened up

 

 

Not believing opened up my world to me.  No longer oppressed by the single stupid destiny of appeasing a fake person.  Now I can write my own future.  I can do anything I want until I die again.  I was dead way before I was alive and I have not suffered any slightest inconvenience from it, said Twain. 

With less stress I can also live longer.

 

Basicially, theres still music I like and I love to skydive.  Why are god-fearers so afraid to die then?  A person would think someone that's gonna blast to heaven wouldn't want to wait. Oh wait, it because deep down, there a lil voice screaming even to the most fanatical of fanatics, "Its a fucking lie!"

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The bible, good fiction? A 3 year old can write a better story.