Police Brutality

Sandycane
atheist
Sandycane's picture
Posts: 970
Joined: 2010-10-16
User is offlineOffline
Police Brutality

'Officer caught on video pepper-spraying a baby squirrel'

A 6' asshole defending himself from a 3" rodent.

This is what happens when you call a cop instead of the proper authority, like a wildlife rehabilitator.

Even if this idiot had no clue as to how to handle a baby squirrel, it is obvious he is just plain mean and sadistic and should be reprimanded for his poor judgement.

 

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
ProzacDeathWish's picture
Posts: 3640
Joined: 2007-12-02
User is offlineOffline
  Stuff like that pisses me

  Stuff like that pisses me off, too.  


Beyond Saving
Silver Member
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 4512
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
 I was attacked by a

 I was attacked by a squirrel once. It bit my boot, I kicked it away and it charged. I shot it with a 20 gauge while it was charging leading to me being harassed by my hunting partner for years about being such a big tough dangerous game hunter that I took out a charging squirrel seconds before it tore out my throat. 

 

Squirrels can be carriers of rabies. So if one is charging you, I recommend killing it. I don't know why he was messing with pepper spray, I would have used the 9mm and when it was determined to be rabies free I would have had lunch.  

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
ProzacDeathWish's picture
Posts: 3640
Joined: 2007-12-02
User is offlineOffline
Beyond Saving wrote: I was

Beyond Saving wrote:

 I was attacked by a squirrel once. It bit my boot, I kicked it away and it charged. I shot it with a 20 gauge while it was charging leading to me being harassed by my hunting partner for years about being such a big tough dangerous game hunter that I took out a charging squirrel seconds before it tore out my throat. 

 

Squirrels can be carriers of rabies. So if one is charging you, I recommend killing it. I don't know why he was messing with pepper spray, I would have used the 9mm and when it was determined to be rabies free I would have had lunch.  

  

I have no problem with defending myself against an animal attack.  I've never heard of a squirrel ripping out anyone's throat though, carrying disease yes.

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
 Oh boy! We are getting

 

Oh boy! We are getting excited about pepper spraying small animals now?

 

Seriously, that video clearly shows that the squirrel has some type of serious problem. Normal squirrels run away from people. If a squirrel is coming right up to the officer like that then it is either diseased of it has been habituated to humans.

 

If the latter, then there would be no reason to call the cops in the first place. If the former, then sure, something has to be done about it. In view of the fact that it keeps on coming after the first couple of shots, I tend to think that the former is likely.

 

Look, that is one fucked up squirrel. If not pepper spray, then next option is a shot gun. Then there would not be much left of the squirrel to test for possible diseases.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


Sandycane
atheist
Sandycane's picture
Posts: 970
Joined: 2010-10-16
User is offlineOffline
I've raised baby squirrels.

I've raised baby squirrels. I've also seen a juvenile squirrel that appeared to have rabies. The former, I bottle fed for a month. The latter, I put on heavy leather gloves, coaxed him into a wire cage and called animal control.

I thought it odd that the baby in this video walked towards the human activity but, that could have been for any number of reasons - not just disease.

This was a fucked up display of incompetence and police brutality - all witnessed by a gaggle of children and their teachers.

This officer should be ashamed of himself...hell, all he had to do was place a box or small container over it and wait for an expert to show up.

It's a shame these kids had to witness this...instead of seeing the proper way to handle a wild animal.

 

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


Ken G.
Bronze Member
Posts: 1352
Joined: 2008-03-20
User is offlineOffline
Sandycane wrote:This officer should be ashamed of himself....

 Exactly ! The squirrel was probably looking for food,from nice people. 

Signature ? How ?


Sandycane
atheist
Sandycane's picture
Posts: 970
Joined: 2010-10-16
User is offlineOffline
Ken G. wrote: Exactly ! The

Ken G. wrote:

 Exactly ! The squirrel was probably looking for food,from nice people. 

Hi Ken

I don't know about that... if I had been there, seeing that kind of behavior, I would have used extreme caution. I just feel there were  probably other, more humane, options available to contain the animal.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


cj
atheistRational VIP!
cj's picture
Posts: 3330
Joined: 2007-01-05
User is offlineOffline
I live in what must be the squirrel capital of the world

Seriously.

I have a friend where a squirrel has attempted to move into her house.  The squirrel (we now have evidence that the squirrel is a female since mating season has obviously started) found a way into the basement and was going to live there.  My friend coaxed her out into a squirrel house - yes, you can purchase such around here.  And basically, the squirrel is now an outside pet sort of like my friend's chickens.

You can have a gray squirrel as a pet.  My husband had one as a pet and it used a cat box.  Like a rabbit, your baseboards will be all chewed up, but otherwise, they can be as nice a pet as any other semi-wild same sized fuzzy critter.  We have had squirrels walk towards us when walking our dogs and only ran away when the dog got close enough to be a danger.  There was one at a rest stop off one of the interstate highways.  The squirrel was fat enough you couldn't see its feet when it sat up and begged.  It sat right on the sidewalk, not too close to the rest rooms so it wouldn't get stepped on but close enough to be easily seen.  And then it would sit up and hold out its paw to beg.  A lot of people fell for this trick.  Including my husband.

In the Pacific Northwest, rabies has been found in the bat population, and rarely is transmitted to raccoons, coyotes, pets and livestock.  A bigger danger from raccoons is round worm and leptospirosis (an intestinal disease).  Yes, since I grew up in Arizona, I know rabies is a larger issue in other parts of the country.  You can look up the documented incidences of rabies in your area here:

US: http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/location/usa/surveillance/wild_animals.html

World: http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/location/world/index.html

Note, many countries do not track or report rabies nor do they require regular vaccination. 

 

http://www.247wildlife.com/wildlifediseases.htm wrote:

Squirrel Diseases: Squirrels are typically not important vectors of disease - I don't think there's any documented cases of rabies transmission from squirrels, for example. Like all animals, squirrels can carry parasites, they leave behind excrement, and they can leave both in your attic. Squirrel droppings, like pretty much any wildlife dropping, are associated with Leptospirosis and Salmonella.

 

So unless you pet the squirrel then lick your fingers, you are probably safe.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


Recovering fund...
atheistSuperfan
Recovering fundamentalist's picture
Posts: 196
Joined: 2011-03-14
User is offlineOffline
Sandycane wrote:Police

Sandycane wrote:

Police brutality

I lol'ed


Sandycane
atheist
Sandycane's picture
Posts: 970
Joined: 2010-10-16
User is offlineOffline
Recovering fundamentalist

Recovering fundamentalist wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

Police brutality

I lol'ed

You think my title is funny or, the video was funny?

 

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


RatDog
atheistSilver Member
Posts: 562
Joined: 2008-11-14
User is offlineOffline
When I was a kid my family

When I was a kid my family raised some baby squirrels who's mother had been killed.  I don't remember all the details because I was fairly young.  What I remember is that they used to clime on me like a tree, and if you threw a bunch of nuts into their cage they would fight over one of them even though there was enough for all of them.  I don't really have allot of sympathy for the police officer.  Their are better ways to deal with squirrels.  

Still as cute, lovable, and beautiful as the creatures are they can still be dangerous.  

That is when squirrels go wild.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19126_5-adorable-animals-that-are-turning-to-dark-side.html

 


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
 <moved from general

 <moved from general conversation to irrationalities>

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


robj101
atheist
robj101's picture
Posts: 2481
Joined: 2010-02-20
User is offlineOffline
What an idiot I heard some

What an idiot I heard some other idiots in the background too. "Tase him" ..idiots. No respect for life.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


Ktulu
atheist
Posts: 1830
Joined: 2010-12-21
User is offlineOffline
robj101 wrote:What an idiot

robj101 wrote:

What an idiot I heard some other idiots in the background too. "Tase him" ..idiots. No respect for life.

LOL, really? wtf? it's a animal in an unknown condition that's coming towards you.  As a city dweller, I would be startled, and the mace is not really as bad as kicking the damn thing.  I mean, that would have been inhumane.  He just sprayed the animal so it went away, I'm not sure what the problem is.  If he would have attempted to capture it somehow ( as with a box, it has been mentioned ) there's a slight probability that he could get bitten, and yet another slight probability that he could get rabies... and fucking DIE!  I for one would have steel toe kicked a charging squirrel out of panic.  

I remember you calling Brian a bleeding heart, lol... I wouldn't want to hurt anything anymore than necessary, but all you have seen is a 30 second video, you don't know the circumstances.  People pass judgment all too easily.

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


robj101
atheist
robj101's picture
Posts: 2481
Joined: 2010-02-20
User is offlineOffline
Ktulu wrote:robj101

Ktulu wrote:

robj101 wrote:

What an idiot I heard some other idiots in the background too. "Tase him" ..idiots. No respect for life.

LOL, really? wtf? it's a animal in an unknown condition that's coming towards you.  As a city dweller, I would be startled, and the mace is not really as bad as kicking the damn thing.  I mean, that would have been inhumane.  He just sprayed the animal so it went away, I'm not sure what the problem is.  If he would have attempted to capture it somehow ( as with a box, it has been mentioned ) there's a slight probability that he could get bitten, and yet another slight probability that he could get rabies... and fucking DIE!  I for one would have steel toe kicked a charging squirrel out of panic.  

I remember you calling Brian a bleeding heart, lol... I wouldn't want to hurt anything anymore than necessary, but all you have seen is a 30 second video, you don't know the circumstances.  People pass judgment all too easily.

Animals have no say dork.

Many ways that could have been handled sooo much better. The little squirrel going to attack someone? Stay the fuck back and call animal control.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


Beyond Saving
Silver Member
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 4512
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Ktulu wrote:robj101

Ktulu wrote:

robj101 wrote:

What an idiot I heard some other idiots in the background too. "Tase him" ..idiots. No respect for life.

LOL, really? wtf? it's a animal in an unknown condition that's coming towards you.  As a city dweller, I would be startled, and the mace is not really as bad as kicking the damn thing.  I mean, that would have been inhumane.  He just sprayed the animal so it went away, I'm not sure what the problem is.  If he would have attempted to capture it somehow ( as with a box, it has been mentioned ) there's a slight probability that he could get bitten, and yet another slight probability that he could get rabies... and fucking DIE!  I for one would have steel toe kicked a charging squirrel out of panic.  

I remember you calling Brian a bleeding heart, lol... I wouldn't want to hurt anything anymore than necessary, but all you have seen is a 30 second video, you don't know the circumstances.  People pass judgment all too easily.

 

Actually I kind of lol'd when the cop started stepping backwards. I mean really? Giving up ground to a squirrel? But for those of you all panicked about using the mace- mace is considered the best non-violent way to protect yourself from wild animals and is generally carried by those who refuse to carry guns in the woods. It does not harm the animal in any permanent way. 

 

I imagine this thread would be very different if the squirrel HAD bitten one of the kids and there was a risk that the kid gets infected by a disease and the police officer had done nothing to prevent it. Granted, the risk of getting a disease from a squirrel is extremely small, but I don't think it is a city police officers job to know which animals are high risk of carrying disease and which aren't. It would be very sad if this (man? I mean really, giving ground to a squirrel...) lost his job or was suspended for his actions. While he might look incredibly stupid, he didn't do anything wrong. He shouldn't receive any repercussions other than being made fun of by the rest of the police force until he retires. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
ProzacDeathWish's picture
Posts: 3640
Joined: 2007-12-02
User is offlineOffline
Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

 

 the next option is a shot gun. Then there would not be much left of the squirrel to test for possible diseases.

 

  If testing the squirrel for diseases were really a concern of yours then when you shoot the "offending" squirrel don't fire your shotgun at point blank range.    How many pellets do you think it takes to stop a raging squirrel, anyway ?  .

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.


Ktulu
atheist
Posts: 1830
Joined: 2010-12-21
User is offlineOffline
robj101 wrote:Animals have

robj101 wrote:

Animals have no say dork.

Many ways that could have been handled sooo much better. The little squirrel going to attack someone? Stay the fuck back and call animal control.

I'm not a dork! *snort (adjusts pocket protector and taped thick glasses)

Smiling granted, but this is also not that bad, he just sprayed some mace... it sucks but as Beyond pointed out, it is not permanently harming the animal.  Meh, as I've said, you don't know all the details, 30 seconds of video out of context is really not enough to pass judgment.  I still wonder how far he could have kicked it... (that's a joke before the bleeding hearts start crying bloody fucking murder)

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


robj101
atheist
robj101's picture
Posts: 2481
Joined: 2010-02-20
User is offlineOffline
Ktulu wrote:robj101

Ktulu wrote:

robj101 wrote:

Animals have no say dork.

Many ways that could have been handled sooo much better. The little squirrel going to attack someone? Stay the fuck back and call animal control.

I'm not a dork! *snort (adjusts pocket protector and taped thick glasses)

Smiling granted, but this is also not that bad, he just sprayed some mace... it sucks but as Beyond pointed out, it is not permanently harming the animal.  Meh, as I've said, you don't know all the details, 30 seconds of video out of context is really not enough to pass judgment.  I still wonder how far he could have kicked it... (that's a joke before the bleeding hearts start crying bloody fucking murder)

Regardless you know it could have been handled better. This 30 second clip could be misleading somehow but I saw what I saw and based on that, which is all I have to base anything about it on, what I saw was fucked up. If we learn later that the squirrel had already attacked maimed and turned some kids ankles into hamburger meat my opinion may change.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


cj
atheistRational VIP!
cj's picture
Posts: 3330
Joined: 2007-01-05
User is offlineOffline
Ktulu wrote:robj101

Ktulu wrote:

robj101 wrote:

Animals have no say dork.

Many ways that could have been handled sooo much better. The little squirrel going to attack someone? Stay the fuck back and call animal control.

I'm not a dork! *snort (adjusts pocket protector and taped thick glasses)

Smiling granted, but this is also not that bad, he just sprayed some mace... it sucks but as Beyond pointed out, it is not permanently harming the animal.  Meh, as I've said, you don't know all the details, 30 seconds of video out of context is really not enough to pass judgment.  I still wonder how far he could have kicked it... (that's a joke before the bleeding hearts start crying bloody fucking murder)

 

Let's review.  There have been NO documented cases of rabies in squirrels in the U.S.  Ever.  Not one.  You are safe from dieing from a squirrel bite - okay?  Put the pocket protector away, adjust those Buddy Holly glasses, lean down and tell the awful squirrel - SHOOOO!  And it will run away.  Sheese.

Really, you get a squirrel habituated to being fed peanuts and popcorn and so on and it is going to come up to people with its little paw out.  Not only is it not unusual, it is common and not a threat to you or your shoes or ankles.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


Ktulu
atheist
Posts: 1830
Joined: 2010-12-21
User is offlineOffline
cj wrote:Let's review. 

cj wrote:

Let's review.  There have been NO documented cases of rabies in squirrels in the U.S.  Ever.  Not one.  You are safe from dieing from a squirrel bite - okay?  Put the pocket protector away, adjust those Buddy Holly glasses, lean down and tell the awful squirrel - SHOOOO!  And it will run away.  Sheese.

Really, you get a squirrel habituated to being fed peanuts and popcorn and so on and it is going to come up to people with its little paw out.  Not only is it not unusual, it is common and not a threat to you or your shoes or ankles.

Lol, the damn thing kept charging, that's not normal behaviour.  I'm telling you, if that was me, I don't know how I would have reacted, but kicking it would have crossed my mind, just saying.  Probably would have uttered a high pitch scream while I was backing up, if we're to be honest. hehe.

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
 ProzacDeathWish wrote:  

 

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:
the next option is a shot gun. Then there would not be much left of the squirrel to test for possible diseases.

 

If testing the squirrel for diseases were really a concern of yours then when you shoot the "offending" squirrel don't fire your shotgun at point blank range. How many pellets do you think it takes to stop a raging squirrel, anyway ? .

 

One.

 

Now tell me how you can get one pellet into a squirrel. Or not. You would have to stand so far back that you would not have any assurance of getting any pellets into the damned diseased rodent in the first place. Then you would have to fire several times to stop it.

 

Never mind that fact, the officer did not have that much clearance and he had to deal with a bunch of kids yelling at him about how cute it was.

 

OK, I should not have to provide a CV on this but I will. I grew up in the woods and spent my summers at the local nature center. The year that I was 15, I spent the entire summer there volunteering so that I would have a job reference the following year. A big part of what I did was caring for sick animals, so I know what that officer was dealing with.

 

cj wrote:
Let's review. There have been NO documented cases of rabies in squirrels in the U.S. Ever.

 

OK, I don't have that data at my fingertips. Even so, I choose to take it at face value. Let's step back and consider what was actually in the video.

 

I could not tell you if the squirrel had previously been habituated to human contact or not. I can tell you that it took a few hits of tear gas and kept coming at the officer. That is not a squirrel that is hoping for a few free peanuts. That is a diseased rodent.

 

Speaking of disease, I would hope that you are aware that there is at least one other disease on the planet besides rabies. I feel some slight inclination to give a pass to younger people who have only lived in cities. However, you have lived a a number of places for a long time.

 

You should know that wildlife is dangerous. Some of the diseases that they carry cannot be treated at all. Even the ones that can be treated can still be dangerous.

 

Let's talk about tularemia. If you get it, it is hard to diagnose as it requires non-standard growth medium and even then can be confused with other diseases. Assuming a correct diagnosis and early correct treatment, you are still at something like 10,000 times the risk of death as from properly treated strep throat.

 

If you do not get the right treatment early enough, then you are at about a 50% risk of death. :Let's compare that to some more well known diseases.

 

Ebola Zaire: No treatment and 80% of the infected will die.

 

Bubonic Plague: Caught in the first day or two the survival rate is, well, I did not find a useful number. However, if it gets past that, the odds are about 98% that you will die.

 

In fact, the USA and the USSR both kept stock of tularemia on hand as biological weapons because it is incapacitating and can trivially overwhelm any stock of antibiotics that may be on hand.

 

Now, I have no idea if the officer in that video knew that he was facing that specific risk but even so, he was clearly dealing with a diseased rodent.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
Ktulu wrote:Lol, the damn

Ktulu wrote:

Lol, the damn thing kept charging, that's not normal behaviour.  I'm telling you, if that was me, I don't know how I would have reacted, but kicking it would have crossed my mind, just saying.  Probably would have uttered a high pitch scream while I was backing up, if we're to be honest. hehe.

 

And the act of kicking it could have meant that you would die.  Tularemia does not need broken skin to be transmitted.

 

This was a diseased rodent.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


Ktulu
atheist
Posts: 1830
Joined: 2010-12-21
User is offlineOffline
Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Ktulu wrote:

Lol, the damn thing kept charging, that's not normal behaviour.  I'm telling you, if that was me, I don't know how I would have reacted, but kicking it would have crossed my mind, just saying.  Probably would have uttered a high pitch scream while I was backing up, if we're to be honest. hehe.

 

And the act of kicking it could have meant that you would die.  Tularemia does not need broken skin to be transmitted.

 

This was a diseased rodent.

I have new found respect for squirrels in light of all that information.

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


cj
atheistRational VIP!
cj's picture
Posts: 3330
Joined: 2007-01-05
User is offlineOffline
Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Ktulu wrote:

Lol, the damn thing kept charging, that's not normal behaviour.  I'm telling you, if that was me, I don't know how I would have reacted, but kicking it would have crossed my mind, just saying.  Probably would have uttered a high pitch scream while I was backing up, if we're to be honest. hehe.

 

And the act of kicking it could have meant that you would die.  Tularemia does not need broken skin to be transmitted.

 

This was a diseased rodent.

 

Sounds like nasty shit.  Though you can also get tularemia from tick and deer fly bites.  Or mowing over dead animals -  which can be really hard to avoid in some areas. 

I have a hard time getting excited about it.  I try to be sensible and I try to minimize risks.  I won't pet the fuzzy friends at the petting zoo for example.  And I wouldn't try to get near any of the squirrels around here, either.  If I tried to avoid all contact with ticks, deer flies, rodents dead or alive, I'd be living in a bubble.  And I just can't bring myself to get that worked up.

We are surrounded by nasty shit all day every day - in our homes and elsewhere.  EEEKKKK

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


robj101
atheist
robj101's picture
Posts: 2481
Joined: 2010-02-20
User is offlineOffline
Growing up part of my life

Growing up part of my life in the country I can't say how many venemous snakes I caught barehanded.

I still remember my mom screaming when I showed up at the house with two copperheads in a coke bottle.

A "dangerous" young squirrel is a lol for someone who knows a bit about wildlife.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
 Copperheads? Wow. People

 

Copperheads? Wow. People go the the doc the next day from them just in case they got some bacteria from the bite.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


redneF
atheistRational VIP!
redneF's picture
Posts: 1971
Joined: 2011-01-04
User is offlineOffline
cj wrote:Seriously.I have a

cj wrote:

Seriously.

I have a friend where a squirrel has attempted to move into her house. 

Grrrr!!!

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
 So ummm, Japan might have

 

So ummm, Japan might have lost a crap load of nuclear reactors. That and we are worried about a dude who might have gassed a seriously diseased rodent?

 

Just checking...

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
ProzacDeathWish's picture
Posts: 3640
Joined: 2007-12-02
User is offlineOffline
Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Now tell me how you can get one pellet into a squirrel. Or not. You would have to stand so far back that you would not have any assurance of getting any pellets into the damned diseased rodent in the first place. Then you would have to fire several times to stop it.

 

 

 

  I know that you're also a gun person so I really thought you were just being glib.  Now I see that you are just being a contrarian. 

   In Texas we hunt squirrel with shotguns.  If total obliteration of the game animal was as an unavoidable outcome what would be the point in shooting it ?  The squirrels are consumed by hunters as food.  Squirrels aren't exactly the kind of game that is sought after as trophy kills.

   Shot dispersal is a given with a shot gun. Ever heard of a choke tube ?  Hunters take that into account when they choose the ranges at which to take their shots. Some pellets always miss nevertheless enough make their way to the target to do the job of killing the game animal without destroying it. 

  Shotguns are used to kill wild ducks and geese, pheasants, turkeys, etc as well.   I have never seen any hunter who was stupid enough to try and get so close with his shotgun that he had nothing to show for his effort after he pulled the trigger.

  Even today high flying game fowl such as geese are now hunted with 12 gauges that chamber 3 1/2" magnums which is the ballistic equivilalent of a freaking ten gauge.  Somehow their hunting dogs always come back to their master carrying an entire bird carcass in their mouths ...not a few meager tissue samples.

 

                                                                       

 

  

 

      ps, the squirrel was not diseased.  It was treated by animal control and later released.  Not exactly the type of response one would expect from them if the squirrel were a seething cess pool of pathogens. 

        http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/04/mesquite-officer-stuns-young-s.html

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
ProzacDeathWish's picture
Posts: 3640
Joined: 2007-12-02
User is offlineOffline
Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

 "

So ummm, Japan might have lost a crap load of nuclear reactors. That and we are worried about a dude who might have gassed a seriously diseased rodent?

 

Just checking...    

 

      

 Now you're going to be all sanctimonious ?

    Wars, natural disasters, etc are continually in the news, yet in spite of that how much time by comparison do atheists spend here debating theists about their  belief in things that don't even exist ?     

   Atheists on this forum seem to "worry" about this meaningless bullshit all the time so please don't attempt to shame me over my priorities.

   It's like debating whether Harry Potter is true or not.  It's not that important.

   The political aspect of religion is a valid concern but how many threads here are just aimed at answering theology ....which is actually just a fantasy. 

   Stories that are essentially make believe aren't exactly a real "worry" of mine to tell you the truth. 

   People happily debate nonsense here every day.  Get over it.

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.


Kapkao
atheistSuperfanBronze Member
Kapkao's picture
Posts: 4121
Joined: 2010-01-12
User is offlineOffline
Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

 

So ummm, Japan might have lost a crap load of nuclear reactors. That and we are worried about a dude who might have gassed a seriously diseased rodent?

 

Just checking...

There isn't much new, significant info coming out of Japan, save for one item;

Partial meltdown at fukushima

Otherwise, TEPCO is still weeks away from moderately safe resolution, radioactivity is still being dumped in the ocean, Japan changes energy policy for summer.

No, it doesn't take that much focus to read this thread and Japan's current events. Eye-wink

 

edit; did I say weeks? Looks like everyone's talking decades now...

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
ProzacDeathWish's picture
Posts: 3640
Joined: 2007-12-02
User is offlineOffline
Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

 

Copperheads? Wow. People go the the doc the next day from them just in case they got some bacteria from the bite.

 

 

 

   Copperheads are a type of venomous pit viper so if someone who was bit by one is only concerned about bacteria then they must have suicidal tendencies.

" Yeah, Martha, it was just a poisonous copperhead that bit me.  I'll pour some rubbing alcohol on the bite wound and put a band aid on it.  Maybe I'll go to the doctor in a day or so "   ...or not.

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.


Sandycane
atheist
Sandycane's picture
Posts: 970
Joined: 2010-10-16
User is offlineOffline
ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

 "

So ummm, Japan might have lost a crap load of nuclear reactors. That and we are worried about a dude who might have gassed a seriously diseased rodent?

 

Just checking...    

 

      

 Now you're going to be all sanctimonious ?

    Wars, natural disasters, etc are continually in the news, yet in spite of that how much time by comparison do atheists spend here debating theists about their  belief in things that don't even exist ?     

   Atheists on this forum seem to "worry" about this meaningless bullshit all the time so please don't attempt to shame me over my priorities.

   It's like debating whether Harry Potter is true or not.  It's not that important.

   The political aspect of religion is a valid concern but how many threads here are just aimed at answering theology ....which is actually just a fantasy. 

   Stories that are essentially make believe aren't exactly a real "worry" of mine to tell you the truth. 

   People happily debate nonsense here every day.  Get over it.

I had similar thoughts when I saw this had been moved from General Discussion to Irrationalities. Thank you, you saved me a lot of typing.

 

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


Ktulu
atheist
Posts: 1830
Joined: 2010-12-21
User is offlineOffline
ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

 

Copperheads? Wow. People go the the doc the next day from them just in case they got some bacteria from the bite.

 

 

 

   Copperheads are a type of venomous pit viper so if someone who was bit by one is only concerned about bacteria then they must have suicidal tendencies.

" Yeah, Martha, it was just a poisonous copperhead that bit me.  I'll pour some rubbing alcohol on the bite wound and put a band aid on it.  Maybe I'll go to the doctor in a day or so "   ...or not.

It's sort of like a Chuck Norris moment.  The bandaid is made from the skin of the snake that bit him most likely.  But not before he bit the snake back in order for his DNA to assimilate the secrets of processing and fighting off the poison.  Smiling

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


Sandycane
atheist
Sandycane's picture
Posts: 970
Joined: 2010-10-16
User is offlineOffline
robj101 wrote:...A

robj101 wrote:

...

A "dangerous" young squirrel is a lol for someone who knows a bit about wildlife.

Exactly. Not to say that every wild animal is harmless, just that if one has a basic respect for life in general - not just human - they will act in a responsible way when confronted with a wild animal. Humans don't own the planet and compared to all of the other species living here, we are certainly in the minority. I also feel that, as humans with supposedly superior intellect, we have the burden of responsibility to protect those other life forms.

AIG keeps repeating 'this animal was diseased' as though it were a fact. That information is not known.

I can see how the officer had the duty to protect himself and those near by from a potential threat.

What I have a problem with is his method.

This was a lesson for all those kids watching this event - what did they learn? To be afraid of Nature?

Hopefully, they learned that if you ever find an injured or orphaned baby animal, Do NOT call the police... call a wildlife rehabilitator instead.

Kids a very impressionable. How many of these kids will grow up with an unnatural fear of wildlife?

 

Given the possibilities, I guess we can be thankful the cop didn't shoot or, stomp the poor thing.

 

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


robj101
atheist
robj101's picture
Posts: 2481
Joined: 2010-02-20
User is offlineOffline
Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

 

Copperheads? Wow. People go the the doc the next day from them just in case they got some bacteria from the bite.

I caught a countless amount of water moccasins and a few rattlesnakes as well, I would tie a string around their "neck" and play like I had a "pet" snake.

I was quite callous as a child but luckily I'm better now and I'm only callous to people as it should be. lol

The copperheads in the coke bottle got shot by my mom and her 4/10 btw. We can't go back and change the past but I would change a lot of things if I could .. maybe this cop will feel the same way.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
ProzacDeathWish's picture
Posts: 3640
Joined: 2007-12-02
User is offlineOffline
Sandycane wrote:AIG keeps

Sandycane wrote:

 

AIG keeps repeating 'this animal was diseased' as though it were a fact. That information is not known.

 

 

   The squirrel was not a disease carrier. It was examined by Animal Control and released back into the wild.   If it was positive for any health risk they could have easily stated as such.    Click the link that I provided in post# 30.

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.


Sandycane
atheist
Sandycane's picture
Posts: 970
Joined: 2010-10-16
User is offlineOffline
Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

 

So ummm, Japan might have lost a crap load of nuclear reactors. That and we are worried about a dude who might have gassed a seriously diseased rodent?

 

Just checking...

Well, let's see.... first of all, where is your verifiable proof that this animal was 'a seriously diseased rodent'. You don't have any.

Second, Yes, I worry about cops that pepper-spray tiny baby squirrels.

Third, the Japan incident and this one are not too dissimilar... in Japan you have ignorance, incompetence and disregard for life coupled with an unexpected act of nature. We saw the same thing in the video.

Little kids who are taught by example that certain forms of life are unimportant grow up to be adults who believe the same thing. One day, humans are more important that squirrels, the next they build nuclear reactors that not only have the potential to destroy other forms of life but also humans. Clearly, the reactors were not built in the wealthy part of town, were they? So, those in charge determined that the poor were not as valuable as the rich.

 

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


robj101
atheist
robj101's picture
Posts: 2481
Joined: 2010-02-20
User is offlineOffline
ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

 

AIG keeps repeating 'this animal was diseased' as though it were a fact. That information is not known.

 

 

   The squirrel was not a disease carrier. It was examined by Animal Control and released back into the wild.   If it was positive for any health risk they could have easily stated as such.    Click the link that I provided in post# 30.

I was with cj in that it was probably just young and had possibly been fed by humans. It may have been looking for a handout and if so what a suprise.

On the bright side /cough if it was looking for a handout maybe now it wont be such a little panhandler ><

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


Ktulu
atheist
Posts: 1830
Joined: 2010-12-21
User is offlineOffline
Sandycane wrote:robj101

Sandycane wrote:

robj101 wrote:

...

A "dangerous" young squirrel is a lol for someone who knows a bit about wildlife.

Exactly. Not to say that every wild animal is harmless, just that if one has a basic respect for life in general - not just human - they will act in a responsible way when confronted with a wild animal. Humans don't own the planet and compared to all of the other species living here, we are certainly in the minority. I also feel that, as humans with supposedly superior intellect, we have the burden of responsibility to protect those other life forms.

AIG keeps repeating 'this animal was diseased' as though it were a fact. That information is not known.

I can see how the officer had the duty to protect himself and those near by from a potential threat.

What I have a problem with is his method.

This was a lesson for all those kids watching this event - what did they learn? To be afraid of Nature?

Hopefully, they learned that if you ever find an injured or orphaned baby animal, Do NOT call the police... call a wildlife rehabilitator instead.

Kids a very impressionable. How many of these kids will grow up with an unnatural fear of wildlife?

 

Given the possibilities, I guess we can be thankful the cop didn't shoot or, stomp the poor thing.

 

lol, will somebody think of THE CHILDREN!!!  I live in Ontario Canada, there are a a LOT of squirrels around here.  I've never had a squirrel come to me they always run away.  If a squirrel came at me, I'm not sure how I would react, but I'm sure my instincts will kick in.  

All I am saying is, assuming that the cop knew nothing more of wildlife than I do, he acted rightly and did not permanently harm the squirrel.  I'm sure if Crocodile Dundee himself was there he would have been able to hypnotize the damn thing with a chant, but as a regular Joe from the city I wouldn't know how to interpret that behaviour.  Look at his options in that video.  Let's break this down because everyone seems to have an interest in it.  

You're a cop, you have the following items on you: 

1. pepper spray

2. hand gun

3. hand cuffs

You see a bunch of children and a squirrel behaving oddly.  First of all, you place yourself between the squirrel and the people.  Than you attempt to keep this animal away from those people by any means necessary, with the least amount of violence involved, and the lowest risk to yourself.  

He can't leave the scene for any reason because of the potential risk to the crowd.  You don't want to shoot or kick the damn thing.  What other option does that cop have?  

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
ProzacDeathWish's picture
Posts: 3640
Joined: 2007-12-02
User is offlineOffline
robj101 wrote:I was quite

robj101 wrote:

I was quite callous as a child but luckily I'm better now and I'm only callous to people as it should be. lol

 

 

  Just a few years ago it was my job to use a track loader to clear away all the trees off of a 30 acre plot of land.  I raised the bucket about 5 feet above the ground to gain more leverage to push a dead  oak tree over.  When I pushed into the tree it just snapped off in front of the loader bucket.  I could see into the tree trunk and there were a few baby squirrels inside.  I just backed away and worked somewhere else for the rest of the day and hoped that mother squirrel would come and rescue her babies. 

 

  ( There's no freaking way I could have just driven over them )

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.


Sandycane
atheist
Sandycane's picture
Posts: 970
Joined: 2010-10-16
User is offlineOffline
ProzacDeathWish wrote:  

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

   The squirrel was not a disease carrier. It was examined by Animal Control and released back into the wild.   If it was positive for any health risk they could have easily stated as such.    Click the link that I provided in post# 30.

Sorry, I didn't look at that before, thanks

Now we have Proof that the squirrel WAS NOT seriously diseased, don't we AIG???

 

Here's another example of police brutality - upgraded from mere squirrel abuse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H5tNX4_4Z0

I'd like to see Officer Davis get it in the face. I'll bet he'd cry like a baby, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmJuMStuhC4&feature=related

 

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


Beyond Saving
Silver Member
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 4512
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
robj101

robj101 wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

 

AIG keeps repeating 'this animal was diseased' as though it were a fact. That information is not known.

 

 

   The squirrel was not a disease carrier. It was examined by Animal Control and released back into the wild.   If it was positive for any health risk they could have easily stated as such.    Click the link that I provided in post# 30.

I was with cj in that it was probably just young and had possibly been fed by humans. It may have been looking for a handout and if so what a suprise.

On the bright side /cough if it was looking for a handout maybe now it wont be such a little panhandler ><

 

Yeah, the story did specifically state that the animal was found to not be diseased (at least nothing obvious) and was released back into the wild. But personally, I still see no problem with the mace. Even if the animal is looking for a handout, it is good for it to learn not to approach people because animals that approach people are more likely to create problems. 

 

Calling animal control is ridiculous. What are they going to do? They capture the squirrel and they move it. Where to? There are schools everywhere, is there any reason to suspect that the squirrel isn't going to do the exact same thing again at a different school? Worse, whenever you move an animal to a new location, the odds of its survival drastically decrease. So the squirrel dies, but you don't have to see it, that is so much better... Or you don't move it far enough and it comes back to the same place. There was once a Black Bear in Minnesota that climbed up a tree in a public park. Animal control tranquilized it, moved it and the bear was back in the same tree the following week. So the whole exercise is futility.

 

Honestly, mace is probably one of the most humane ways to correct the squirrels behavior. It doesn't harm the squirrel but is irritating enough that the squirrel will probably avoid people from now on. Personally, I would have simply kicked it or swatted it with whatever I had handy. The way I see it, you have two options, do something to prevent the squirrel from approaching people or accept the fact that someday the squirrel might bite a kid. I don't really have a problem either way because I don't really care if a squirrel bites a kid, the kid will learn not to pet the squirrel. But simply relocating the squirrel isn't going to do anything other than change the venue of where the squirrel might bite some stupid kid.  

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


Sandycane
atheist
Sandycane's picture
Posts: 970
Joined: 2010-10-16
User is offlineOffline
ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

robj101 wrote:

I was quite callous as a child but luckily I'm better now and I'm only callous to people as it should be. lol

 

 

  Just a few years ago it was my job to use a track loader to clear away all the trees off of a 30 acre plot of land.  I raised the bucket about 5 feet above the ground to gain more leverage to push a dead  oak tree over.  When I pushed into the tree it just snapped off in front of the loader bucket.  I could see into the tree trunk and there were a few baby squirrels inside.  I just backed away and worked somewhere else for the rest of the day and hoped that mother squirrel would come and rescue her babies. 

 

  ( There's no freaking way I could have just driven over them )

Awww, I love you!

That's how I acquired my two baby squirrels - the guy who cut down a tree in my front yard found them and brought them to me. They didn't have any fur and their eyes weren't open yet. When I went to the door, he said, 'Do you want these?' and held out his hand and there they were.

I was literally still in tears because the last kitten from a litter of 4 had just died in my hand.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


Sandycane
atheist
Sandycane's picture
Posts: 970
Joined: 2010-10-16
User is offlineOffline
Beyond Saving wrote:I was

Beyond Saving wrote:

seased (at least nothing obvious) and was released back into the wild. But personally, I still see no problem with the mace. Even if the animal is looking for a handout, it is good for it to learn not to approach people because animals that approach people are more likely to create problems. 

 

Calling animal control is ridiculous. What are they going to do? They capture the squirrel and they move it. Where to? There are schools everywhere, is there any reason to suspect that the squirrel isn't going to do the exact same thing again at a different school? Worse, whenever you move an animal to a new location, the odds of its survival drastically decrease. So the squirrel dies, but you don't have to see it, that is so much better... Or you don't move it far enough and it comes back to the same place. There was once a Black Bear in Minnesota that climbed up a tree in a public park. Animal control tranquilized it, moved it and the bear was back in the same tree the following week. So the whole exercise is futility.

 

Honestly, mace is probably one of the most humane ways to correct the squirrels behavior. It doesn't harm the squirrel but is irritating enough that the squirrel will probably avoid people from now on. Personally, I would have simply kicked it or swatted it with whatever I had handy. The way I see it, you have two options, do something to prevent the squirrel from approaching people or accept the fact that someday the squirrel might bite a kid. I don't really have a problem either way because I don't really care if a squirrel bites a kid, the kid will learn not to pet the squirrel. But simply relocating the squirrel isn't going to do anything other than change the venue of where the squirrel might bite some stupid kid.  

 

Well, there's another option: Give the poor starving baby squirrel some food. DUH!

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


Beyond Saving
Silver Member
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 4512
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Sandycane wrote: I'd like to

Sandycane wrote:

I'd like to see Officer Davis get it in the face. I'll bet he'd cry like a baby, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmJuMStuhC4&feature=related

And that video helps your case how? All it illustrates how minor mace is that we spray our own soldiers with it as a test. So spraying the squirrel isn't as big a deal as you are making it out to be. Although, I do find it amusing to compare the Navy guy with the Marine. 

 

 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


Beyond Saving
Silver Member
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 4512
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Sandycane wrote:Well,

Sandycane wrote:

Well, there's another option: Give the poor starving baby squirrel some food. DUH!

 

Someone probably had been giving food and that is probably why it was being so aggressive in its approach. If you feed animals they will see you as a food source. So if your goal is to protect the kids from being bitten, feeding the squirrel has the opposite effect because the squirrel will become MORE likely to approach people and therefore potentially bite them. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


Ktulu
atheist
Posts: 1830
Joined: 2010-12-21
User is offlineOffline
Beyond Saving wrote:Someone

Beyond Saving wrote:

Someone probably had been giving food and that is probably why it was being so aggressive in its approach. If you feed animals they will see you as a food source. So if your goal is to protect the kids from being bitten, feeding the squirrel has the opposite effect because the squirrel will become MORE likely to approach people and therefore potentially bite them. 

The more I think of this video the more I see nothing wrong with it... I'm not sure why people are freaking out at all.

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


robj101
atheist
robj101's picture
Posts: 2481
Joined: 2010-02-20
User is offlineOffline
Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

I'd like to see Officer Davis get it in the face. I'll bet he'd cry like a baby, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmJuMStuhC4&feature=related

And that video helps your case how? All it illustrates how minor mace is that we spray our own soldiers with it as a test. So spraying the squirrel isn't as big a deal as you are making it out to be. Although, I do find it amusing to compare the Navy guy with the Marine. 

 

 

One of my friends works for the prison here just outside of town. Part of his training involved him getting sprayed in the face with pepper spray. He basicly walked in, got sprayed and went home. His face and eyes were red and he said it burned like hell. It's apparently bad enough that they paid him 8 hours for being at work for 30 minutes and that was standard practice. Spraying this stuff on a small animal probably did not make it feel good.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin