Grace

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Grace

 So it is FINALLY a nice spring day here in Ohio, so I went to do a little trout fishing this morning. I caught a couple trout and ran into a friend of mine at the gas station on my way home. I ended up inviting him over to my place to eat the trout and have a couple beers.

 

After cooking the food I sit down and start digging in. My friend, who knows I am an atheist, gives me a dirty look and starts saying grace. Now, I got a little irritated. First of all, god didn't put the food on the table, I did. I didn't see god sitting next to me holding a pole. Hell, the lazy bastard didn't even bother helping me with a net allowing a particularly nice one to escape the line. Regardless, I was a good guy and patiently waited for my friend to finish before turning back to my food, without saying anything.  

 

The more I have thought about it, the more it irritates me. When I go to a Christian household I am always quiet and respectful during grace. After all, it is their house, their traditions, whatever. One time my niece caught me not saying "amen" and asked me why, that caused a little stir (she is an atheist in the making ). But for the most part, I respect their traditions.

 

So when a Christian comes into MY house and I am cooking their meal and providing food shouldn't they respect mine? I am seriously considering implementing a no-grace policy in my house. If you want to say grace, do it silently. Maybe I will make one of those wood carved signs and hang it over the dining room table. "No Grace Allowed" I will practice my time honored tradition of digging in to the great chow before it gets cold, and at least when you are in my house, don't give me dirty looks for it. Anyone else ever have something similar happen to them?  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:So when

Beyond Saving wrote:

So when a Christian comes into MY house and I am cooking their meal and providing food shouldn't they respect mine? I am seriously considering implementing a no-grace policy in my house. If you want to say grace, do it silently. Maybe I will make one of those wood carved signs and hang it over the dining room table. "No Grace Allowed" I will practice my time honored tradition of digging in to the great chow before it gets cold, and at least when you are in my house, don't give me dirty looks for it.

Hehe, you could say, "No smoking or religion in the house. If you want, you can do it just outside the back door. Sorry, I just can't stand second-hand religion."

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 So he knows that you are

 

So he knows that you are not a believer. Then it was a willful imposition upon your hospitality. If he wanted to thank the invisible man in the sky, he could have done that silently while you were dishing up. Which leaves me wondering what would happen if he was invited to other houses with different traditions?

 

Really, that seems to me to not really any different than going to a jewish household and asking for a shrimp cocktail as an appetizer. If the hosts are serious about keeping kosher, no shrimp will ever enter the building.

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I don't think I ever have

I don't think I ever have had this happen to me.  All my friends and family know we are atheists and most of them are as well.  When at a theist's house, sure, a moment of respect for their customs is fine.  But at my house? 

And the dirty look?  The obvious prayer?  I would have kept eating.  And I don't think I would invite this person over for dinner again.  Rude is rude.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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.

Beyond Saving wrote:
So it is FINALLY a nice spring day here in Ohio, so I went to do a little trout fishing this morning. I caught a couple trout and ran into a friend of mine at the gas station on my way home. I ended up inviting him over to my place to eat the trout and have a couple beers.

Being an Ohio native and beer drinker next time you might ask why he did not say grace over the beer. If anything can get an atheist interested in saying grace it is over beer in hopes it helps keep it flowing. If god invented beer I'll reconsider everything.

The failure to offer thanks for beer is a serious ommission and should not go unmentioned. If the bible had only used beer instead of wine there would be no cop out with grape juice.

This bread is my body. This beer is my mojo. Do this in memory of me all night long.

The doctrine of transubstantiation, the beer becomes the actual mojo of Christ. The centerpiece of a Catholic mass is a golden stein to hold the beer of Christ.

Thou hast annointed my head with hops. You pour my beer so fast my cup runneth over.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

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Beyond Saving wrote: So

Beyond Saving wrote:

 So when a Christian comes into MY house and I am cooking their meal and providing food shouldn't they respect mine? I am seriously considering implementing a no-grace policy in my house. If you want to say grace, do it silently. Maybe I will make one of those wood carved signs and hang it over the dining room table. "No Grace Allowed" I will practice my time honored tradition of digging in to the great chow before it gets cold, and at least when you are in my house, don't give me dirty looks for it. Anyone else ever have something similar happen to them?  

I'd respect it.

I travel a lot, and I'm often eating with people of different religious backgrounds than my own..... Muslims, Buddhist, Atheists... whatever...

If I know (or don't know) if I'm in mixed company, I pray silently...

 

It is incomprehensible that God should exist, and it is incomprehensible that he should not exist. -Blaise Pascal


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Beyond Saving wrote: So it

Beyond Saving wrote:

 So it is FINALLY a nice spring day here in Ohio, so I went to do a little trout fishing this morning. I caught a couple trout and ran into a friend of mine at the gas station on my way home. I ended up inviting him over to my place to eat the trout and have a couple beers.

 

After cooking the food I sit down and start digging in. My friend, who knows I am an atheist, gives me a dirty look and starts saying grace. Now, I got a little irritated. First of all, god didn't put the food on the table, I did. I didn't see god sitting next to me holding a pole. Hell, the lazy bastard didn't even bother helping me with a net allowing a particularly nice one to escape the line. Regardless, I was a good guy and patiently waited for my friend to finish before turning back to my food, without saying anything.  

 

The more I have thought about it, the more it irritates me. When I go to a Christian household I am always quiet and respectful during grace. After all, it is their house, their traditions, whatever. One time my niece caught me not saying "amen" and asked me why, that caused a little stir (she is an atheist in the making ). But for the most part, I respect their traditions.

 

So when a Christian comes into MY house and I am cooking their meal and providing food shouldn't they respect mine? I am seriously considering implementing a no-grace policy in my house. If you want to say grace, do it silently. Maybe I will make one of those wood carved signs and hang it over the dining room table. "No Grace Allowed" I will practice my time honored tradition of digging in to the great chow before it gets cold, and at least when you are in my house, don't give me dirty looks for it. Anyone else ever have something similar happen to them?  

It is nice to know despite our differences we can agree on some things.

I agree with you 100 percent. Next time he gives you a dirty look just ask him, "Do you offer your Jewish friends pork?"

I get sick of going out to the dining area where I work and seeing people pray, ESPECIALLY after seeing some giant natural disaster like the tsunami.

God, "Humn, lets see what to do today. Stop a tsunami? Naw, I'll make sure these suburban suck ups have some nice pancakes and scrambled eggs. Who cares that 10s of thousands of people die as long as these people have a nice meal."

But even as such, if someone wants to pray in front of me, fine, just don't expect me to do it. That IS annoying. Just tell him that is his thing, not yours and if he cant or wont accept that, just dont eat with him. His hang ups are not yours.

 

 

 

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Wowzers1 wrote:Beyond Saving

Wowzers1 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

 So when a Christian comes into MY house and I am cooking their meal and providing food shouldn't they respect mine? I am seriously considering implementing a no-grace policy in my house. If you want to say grace, do it silently. Maybe I will make one of those wood carved signs and hang it over the dining room table. "No Grace Allowed" I will practice my time honored tradition of digging in to the great chow before it gets cold, and at least when you are in my house, don't give me dirty looks for it. Anyone else ever have something similar happen to them?  

I'd respect it.

I travel a lot, and I'm often eating with people of different religious backgrounds than my own..... Muslims, Buddhist, Atheists... whatever...

If I know (or don't know) if I'm in mixed company, I pray silently...

 

Not if they give me dirty looks for not doing it. Why should I respect veiled demands such as a dirty look?

I have been all over the United States and Europe, mostly as a kid and teen and Japan when I was married. And I too run into all sorts of cultures. I will politely observe, sure, but I WILL NOT partake in anything I don't want to. No one has the right to try to shame me into partaking in their superstition.

When I am invited to an event where people pray, and I am not talking about public events, just weddings and funerals and holiday settings, I DO NOT bow my head or pretend to pray. Fuck anyone who expects me to do that. I won't disrupt the setting, but I wont pretend to be something I am not just to placate their insecurities. If they don't like that I wont pray at their event, then they should not invite me.

If they want to do It I won't stop them, but they do not deserve "respect" if they make demands about what I should do.

Respect is a stupid word in any case. It is a relic of the comic book family stemming from "honor" born out of tribal antiquity and their kings that demanded "respect" to maintain the "honor" of the family.

To me, a more modern way of looking at how we interact would be politeness out of mutual consent, "You do your thing and I do mine".

It simply amounts to both parties knowing what they are getting into without making demands of the other.

I do not value "When in Rome" "Just because". That is simplistic shallow thinking based on popular tradition. I do value consent which is modern morality not rooted in tribal behavior.

 

 

 

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cj wrote:I don't think I

cj wrote:

I don't think I ever have had this happen to me.  All my friends and family know we are atheists and most of them are as well.  When at a theist's house, sure, a moment of respect for their customs is fine.  But at my house? 

And the dirty look?  The obvious prayer?  I would have kept eating.  And I don't think I would invite this person over for dinner again.  Rude is rude.

 

If invited, I will sit quietly and wait until they finish to start eating, but I will not bow my head or close my eyes or pretend to pray. If they don't like that then don't invite me.

 

 

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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Beyond

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:
So it is FINALLY a nice spring day here in Ohio, so I went to do a little trout fishing this morning. I caught a couple trout and ran into a friend of mine at the gas station on my way home. I ended up inviting him over to my place to eat the trout and have a couple beers.

Being an Ohio native and beer drinker next time you might ask why he did not say grace over the beer. If anything can get an atheist interested in saying grace it is over beer in hopes it helps keep it flowing. If god invented beer I'll reconsider everything.

The failure to offer thanks for beer is a serious ommission and should not go unmentioned. If the bible had only used beer instead of wine there would be no cop out with grape juice.

This bread is my body. This beer is my mojo. Do this in memory of me all night long.

The doctrine of transubstantiation, the beer becomes the actual mojo of Christ. The centerpiece of a Catholic mass is a golden stein to hold the beer of Christ.

Thou hast annointed my head with hops. You pour my beer so fast my cup runneth over.

 

OH SHIT, you just proved to me there is a God and his name is Yingling.

"Our froth, who art on tap, hallowed be they mug, thy will be done, in the bar during football season. Forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill our beer. Deliver us a designated driver".

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:cj wrote:I

Brian37 wrote:

cj wrote:

I don't think I ever have had this happen to me.  All my friends and family know we are atheists and most of them are as well.  When at a theist's house, sure, a moment of respect for their customs is fine.  But at my house? 

And the dirty look?  The obvious prayer?  I would have kept eating.  And I don't think I would invite this person over for dinner again.  Rude is rude.

If invited, I will sit quietly and wait until they finish to start eating, but I will not bow my head or close my eyes or pretend to pray. If they don't like that then don't invite me.

 

This is what I do as well.  I don't have to pray, but I don't have to be rude at their house.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

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Personally

Personally I don't have a problem with people saying grace at my place before we eat if they want to, if that's what they feel they must do before they eat, but the dirty look would have got me steamed. I won't say the grace with them, as that is their bag and not mine, but if they want to give me a dirty look for not going along, they shouldn't expect me to keep the kids gloves on.

I'm sorry you had to be disrespected so badly in your own house, but at least you know that guy isn't much of a friend if he treats your hospitality in such a way.

He effectively spit at your feet, and since we don't happen to be Fremen, that isn't a complement.

Again, sorry you had to endure that bullshit.

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Unsurprisingly

 

 

Grace shits the fuck out of me. And to make matters worse my family doesn't do an austere, 20-second, latin-style grace but through the past influence of some fuzzy, bible-hugging baptist holiday camp, insists on tightly holding hands during a rambling, personalised sermon-grace, with individuals singled out for support and thanks according to the prevailing conditions of the day. The efforts of the real providers of the meal and the hunger of the starving heathen masses in Africa are entirely ignored. 

Now, I'm fine holding hands with my family. But holding their hands while they whimper their love to the great murderer is a serious challenge for me. I could have no grace in my house and the bastards would still say it, no doubt feeling they were poking a stick into satan's eye in the doing. 

Just to add to this, my mum has a surgical procedure coming up and as usual my god fearing siblings have melted into the mulga leaving me to take mum to hospital and hang around at her place for a few days watching period drama until she recovers. No doubt, and greatly to my distaste, mum will pray in agonizing detail thanking her boyfriend jesus for the removal of her lump, ignoring the fact Dr. Tan performed the miracle and I have just watched every episode of Cranford

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

..................and I have just watched every episode of Cranford

 

Pardon my total ignorance on all things TV, but is Cranford an Oz soap?  Serial killer?  Cereal killer?

Sorry, it's late, I should head off to bed instead of posting stupid stuff.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

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BBC's Cranford...

 

 

Set in the early 1840s in the fictional village of Cranford in the county of Cheshire in North West England, the story of the TV mini-series Cranford focuses primarily on the town's single and widowed middle class female inhabitants who are comfortable with their traditional way of life and place great store in propriety and maintaining an appearance of gentility. Among them are the spinster Jenkyns sisters, Matty and Deborah; their houseguest from Manchester, Mary Smith; Octavia Pole, the town's leading gossip; the Tomkinson sisters, Augusta and Caroline; Mrs Forrester, who treats her beloved cow Bessie as she would a daughter; Mrs Rose, the housekeeper for Dr Harrison; Jessie Brown, who rejects Major Gordon's marriage proposal twice despite her feelings for him; Laurentia Galindo, a milliner who strongly believes men and women are on equal footing; the Honourable Mrs Jamieson, a snob who dresses her dog in ensembles to match her own; Sophy Hutton, the vicar's eldest daughter and surrogate mother to her three younger siblings, who is courted by Dr Harrison; and the aristocratic Lady Ludlow, who lives in splendour at Hanbury Court and perceives change as a peril to the natural order of things.

The principal male characters are new arrival Dr Frank Harrison, who is smitten with Sophy but unwittingly becomes the romantic target of both Mrs Rose and Caroline Tomkinson, who frequently feigns illness to hold his attention; Dr Morgan, an old-fashioned practitioner who finds himself challenged by the modern ideas of his young partner; Captain Brown, a military man whose common sense earns him a place of authority among the women; Edmund Carter, Lady Ludlow's land agent, a reformer who strongly advocates free education for the working class; Harry Gregson, the ambitious ten-year-old son of an impoverished poacher, who as Mr. Carter's protégé learns to read and write; farmer Thomas Holbrook, Matty Jenkyn's one-time suitor, who was considered unsuitable by her family but is anxious to renew his relationship with her; Reverend Hutton, a widower with four children whose religious conviction is sometimes at odds with his instincts as a father; and Sir Charles Maulver, the local magistrate and director of the railway company.

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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So

So what Atheistextremeist seems to be saying is that yes, in fact hell does exist and it's got it's own television show...

"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!


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There you are...

 

...it's a profound self sacrifice watching this stuff. There are no cart chases, the score is all classical, the bad guys get their comeuppance - in fact, I'm not even sure there are bad guys. Worst of all, the whole thing ends with a wedding just after the bride's near death, the entire cast waving out front of a grey stone church, bedecked with flowers, on a day of flour sack clouds and cornflower blue...

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Your sacrifice

should be immortalized in some fashion.  A stone monolith outside said church perhaps?  "AE in Australia, watched the entire series with his mum while she was ill.  This stelae is erected in his honour."

Or some such.

Gawd, sounds worse than "Upstairs, Downstairs" which I tried to watch once.  Didn't make it all the way through the first episode.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.