The Most Obvious Thing

Presuppositionalist
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The Most Obvious Thing

Atheists like to switch up their standards of evidence in mid conversation.

So, I have a solution.

Just state the most obvious thing, and I will prove that God exists from it.

That is all.

Q: Why didn't you address (post x) that I made in response to you nine minutes ago???

A: Because I have (a) a job, (b) familial obligations, (c) social obligations, and (d) probably a lot of other atheists responded to the same post you did, since I am practically the token Christian on this site now. Be patient, please.


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Presuppositionalist

Presuppositionalist wrote:

 (4) Therefore, God exists.

Logically and inescapably entailed by the premises stated and accepted thus far.

 

 

Except I didn't see one person accept your premises.

Sigh.  You won't see this post, either.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

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Presuppositionalist

Presuppositionalist wrote:

 (4) Therefore, God exists.

Logically and inescapably entailed by the premises stated and accepted thus far.

 

First off, all of this leads me to believe that you're a poe.

Second, if you're not a poe, read the damn topic so you can see that we disagreed with every single one of your statements. 


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Wow...

So you really think you proved your gods existence with that garbage? Really?

Really?

Wow...

Sometimes I fear for the human species...

I just have to say one thing. Maybe you accept those points, but people who live in reality and not in LaLaLand expect evidence for claims. You have offered none. You just made silly claims with absolutely no evidence to back them up and then expected us to buy it and fawn over your supposed intellectual grandeur.

And people ask why I think most religious people are stupid. I just wish they would stop proving my point.

Sigh...

"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!


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BobSpence1 wrote:Damn, we

BobSpence1 wrote:

Damn, we seem to have demolished Presup's arguments before he got to present them.

Poor guy, must be so frustrating...

 

He's ignoring our responses to get to his conclusion which is the logical neccrssity of god.  If he responds to the skepticism of his premises then he can't reach his conclusion.

"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whip cream."--Frank Zappa

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Presuppositionalist

duplicated post deleted


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Presuppositionalist

Presuppositionalist wrote:

 (3) If a maximally great being exists in some possible world, then it exists in every possible world.

Still good?

First address the criticism of this proposition:NO WE ARE NOT STILL GOOD WITH THIS ONE. ENOUGH WITH UNSUBSTANTIATED PREMISES.The actual failure and feigned  success is in the definition of this premise.  If by maximally great being (g) you mean an omniscient, omnipotent and alll loving god then the premise fails empirically because :

 

 

1) There is a possible world of only well-being (p). 

2) A capable limitless good being (x) knowing of this world (p) would actualize (necessarily) it over  possible worlds with evil and suffering (q).

3)x necessarily would not allow  q

4)p--> not q

5) It is possible that god is x

6)q --> not p

7) Our world=q therefore not p

8)not p

9)not p--->not x

10)not x

11)god= not x

We have empirical evidence of one of the possible worlds which shows it to be the actual world. In it which is here such a "Being" does not exist. We can accept our worlds cotents (quid) as  defeaters of a logically structured proposed formal structure (quod). 

"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whip cream."--Frank Zappa

http://atheisticgod.blogspot.com/ Books on atheism


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Presuppositionalist wrote:

Presuppositionalist wrote:
Just state the most obvious thing, and I will prove that God exists from it.

You were given the opportunity, and all you managed to do was demonstrate that you're no more mature, or intellectually adept than a 5th grader.

If there is such a maximally great being, then how stupid and ironic is it that he wants to surround himself for eternity with all the most moronic, lying and conniving people?

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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 Thanks for asking, Bob.

 Thanks for asking, Bob. You can ask Jesus into your heart by reciting this simple prayer:

Dear God in heaven, I come to you in the name of Jesus. I acknowledge to You that I am a sinner, and I am sorry for my sins and the life that I have lived; I need your forgiveness.

I believe that your only begotten Son Jesus Christ shed His precious blood on the cross at Calvary and died for my sins, and I am now willing to turn from my sin.

You said in Your Holy Word, Romans 10:9 that if we confess the Lord our God and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved.

Right now I confess Jesus as the Lord of my soul. With my heart, I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. This very moment I accept Jesus Christ as my own personal Savior and according to His Word, right now I am saved.

Thank you Jesus for your unlimited grace which has saved me from my sins. I thank you Jesus that your grace never leads to license, but rather it always leads to repentance. Therefore Lord Jesus transform my life so that I may bring glory and honor to you alone and not to myself.

Thank you Jesus for dying for me and giving me eternal life.

Amen.

Q: Why didn't you address (post x) that I made in response to you nine minutes ago???

A: Because I have (a) a job, (b) familial obligations, (c) social obligations, and (d) probably a lot of other atheists responded to the same post you did, since I am practically the token Christian on this site now. Be patient, please.


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Presuppositionalist

Presuppositionalist wrote:

 Thanks for asking, Bob. You can ask Jesus into your heart by reciting this simple prayer:

Dear God in heaven, I come to you in the name of Jesus. I acknowledge to You that I am a sinner, and I am sorry for my sins and the life that I have lived; I need your forgiveness.

I believe that your only begotten Son Jesus Christ shed His precious blood on the cross at Calvary and died for my sins, and I am now willing to turn from my sin.

You said in Your Holy Word, Romans 10:9 that if we confess the Lord our God and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved.

Right now I confess Jesus as the Lord of my soul. With my heart, I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. This very moment I accept Jesus Christ as my own personal Savior and according to His Word, right now I am saved.

Thank you Jesus for your unlimited grace which has saved me from my sins. I thank you Jesus that your grace never leads to license, but rather it always leads to repentance. Therefore Lord Jesus transform my life so that I may bring glory and honor to you alone and not to myself.

Thank you Jesus for dying for me and giving me eternal life.

Amen.

You can't even tell the truth in a prayer to your God?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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HAHAHAHAHA!!

Presuppositionalist wrote:
a bunch of fantasy garbage directed towards BobSpence1

You still haven't offered us any evidence as to why we should accept this fantastical claim that your imaginary superhero exists. You just ignored all of the criticisms to your tripe with the tired old "just accept it and pray" bullshit. Sorry, but we are not a bunch of simple minded idiots here who will accept any bullshit claim just because of a fear of our eventual non-existence, which you seem to think you're selling an alternative to. It might have worked on you and your other soft headed friends, but we require evidence for claims, apparently unlike you.

And you act like we haven't heard this "Holy" Babble bullshit before! This is nothing new, and people have been asking believers for evidence since there have been believers! What a surprise that after thousands of years of searching for evidence for your claims, it still falls back on the "don't think about it and just pray" line! What a con!

"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!


BobSpence
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Presup,WTF do you think

Presup,

WTF do you think you're doing?

This is  discussion board, not a church.

You utterly ignore almost everything we say, while chanting a few lines of long-discredited 'arguments' for the existence of God, then ask us to pray for forgiveness....

Your God is an evil, spiteful, self-worshipping creature, who wants us to mindlessly surrender to his pride and 'worship' him, on pain of eternal torture or rejection.

He is the being who, if he existed, would have committed unforgivable 'sins', encouraging whole tribes of ancient peoples to slaughter each other, treat women and servants/slaves as pieces of property, is ok with torture and rape, whose response to our general failure to obey and accept his crap is to indiscriminately wipe out men, women and children...

And then when that doesn't make man suck up to him enough, he tries to bribe us with promises of an eternal life in a mindless state of zonked-out 'bliss' like an eternal heroin high, if we will just 'take him into our hearts'.

What is his problem? And what is yours, that you swallow this nonsense, and expect us to, without a shred of evidence or justification?

We have long known, and it has been confirmed by scientific studies, that a lot of people are genetically predisposed to interpret certain kinds of internal brain states as a communication with some conscious being outside themselves, like an enhanced version of a child's imaginary friend. And that to a lot of other people what they say sounds appealing enough that they are persuaded to spend their life trying to share that reported experience.

IOW, some people buy it, some don't, or do for a while until they wake up to reality.

You are clearly deeply under the influence, apparently even more so than in previous appearances here.

 

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


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 I lol'd

 I lol'd


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Well said Bob

BobSpence1 wrote:
We have long known, and it has been confirmed by scientific studies, that a lot of people are genetically predisposed to interpret certain kinds of internal brain states as a communication with some conscious being outside themselves, like an enhanced version of a child's imaginary friend. And that to a lot of other people what they say sounds appealing enough that they are persuaded to spend their life trying to share that reported experience.

IOW, some people buy it, some don't, or do for a while until they wake up to reality.

You are clearly deeply under the influence, apparently even more so than in previous appearances here.

Well said Bob!

Now who wants to bet that if Mr. Presup comes back, his post will betray the fact that he read none of the other posts on this thread and will continue on like he has been the only person talking?

This guy's a complete tool.

"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!


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Is it too much to ask?

Is it too much to ask for an "obvious proof" of theism that is at least marginally interesting or original?

But I guess that is just all the karma I've gathered from my many lives misdeeds tying me to this world speaking, right?

"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!


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 We waited with bated

 We waited with bated breath for a month and this is what we get? Good thing I set really really low expectations for theists otherwise I might have been a bit disappointed. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote: Good

Beyond Saving wrote:
 Good thing I set really really low expectations for theists otherwise I might have been a bit disappointed. 

Y'know, I'm often left wondering if Christians had their druthers, would America appear much like Islam, but with different wardrobe...

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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Wow... perfect!

Beyond Saving wrote:
We waited with bated breath for a month and this is what we get? Good thing I set really really low expectations for theists otherwise I might have been a bit disappointed.

QFT +10

"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!


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Presuppositionalist

Presuppositionalist wrote:

Thanks for asking, Bob. You can ask Jesus into your heart by reciting this simple prayer:

Even under your own belief system, Jesus wouldn't come into my heart unless I meant what I prayed. But, I couldn't mean it unless I believed, and I can't believe unless I have evidence. I can't have evidence unless I have a sincere prayer. 

Ah, but if I already believed, the prayer would be pointless anyways, as it would mean Jesus is already in my heart.

Pathetic.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Ahh... and the circle of Christian LOLgic continues...

Ah butterbattle, you just described part of the "glorious" circle of Christian LOLgic perfectly!

And for some reason, they keep trying to divide by zero!

"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!


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No! No! Guys: The

No! No! Guys: The Presuppositionalist Response Squad is far superior to any of those suggestions. (It rhymes.)

Q: Why didn't you address (post x) that I made in response to you nine minutes ago???

A: Because I have (a) a job, (b) familial obligations, (c) social obligations, and (d) probably a lot of other atheists responded to the same post you did, since I am practically the token Christian on this site now. Be patient, please.


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Presuppositionalist

Presuppositionalist wrote:

Atheists like to switch up their standards of evidence in mid conversation.

So, I have a solution.

Just state the most obvious thing, and I will prove that God exists from it.

That is all.

Hmm. This guy seems smart.

Q: Why didn't you address (post x) that I made in response to you nine minutes ago???

A: Because I have (a) a job, (b) familial obligations, (c) social obligations, and (d) probably a lot of other atheists responded to the same post you did, since I am practically the token Christian on this site now. Be patient, please.


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Presuppositionalist

Presuppositionalist wrote:

Presuppositionalist wrote:

Atheists like to switch up their standards of evidence in mid conversation.

So, I have a solution.

Just state the most obvious thing, and I will prove that God exists from it.

That is all.

Hmm. This guy seems smart.

Ah, confirmed, you only listen to and talk to yourself.

You certainly take little notice of the rest of us.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


redneF
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Presuppositionalist wrote:

Presuppositionalist wrote:
Atheists like to switch up their standards of evidence in mid conversation.

Actually, you've got that backwards.

Theists are the ones who have double standards, in regards to evidence.

 

Unless you're going to tell me you're a hybrid Jew/Muslim/Judeo Christian/Polytheist/Voodoo Shaman

Presuppositionalist wrote:
Hmm. This guy seems smart.

I suppose, if your name is Kirk Cameron...

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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I do believe my assumption

I do believe my assumption was correct, we have a Poe troll.


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Q: Why didn't you address (post x) that I made in response to you nine minutes ago???

A: Because I have (a) a job, (b) familial obligations, (c) social obligations, and (d) probably a lot of other atheists responded to the same post you did, since I am practically the token Christian on this site now. Be patient, please.


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Sure...

Anything you say Fred...