Norway/Russian Blue Lights

WasitacatisaW
atheist
WasitacatisaW's picture
Posts: 28
Joined: 2011-03-16
User is offlineOffline
Norway/Russian Blue Lights

I've been searching for a topic in the science forum with this phenomena but so far have failed. My apologies if this is already a discussion.

 

I  honestly have not found any useful information on a scientific explanation of this phenomenon. CBS says it was a failed Russian missile, however I've also read a Russian news article denying the very same claim.

 

Anybody have any information? I'm surprised how little this event has been discussed in the media, and other scientific journal forums.


mellestad
Moderator
Posts: 2927
Joined: 2009-08-19
User is offlineOffline
Maybe you could link to a

Maybe you could link to a source so we know what you're talking about?

 

People see lights all the time, I'd need to know which set of lights lit your interest.  (har har)

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


BobSpence
High Level DonorRational VIP!ScientistWebsite Admin
BobSpence's picture
Posts: 5809
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Was that the spiral

Was that the spiral pattern?

Because I saw a version of the same thing, early one morning hear in Eastern Australia, which corresponded to a discarded booster from a space mission.

 

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


WasitacatisaW
atheist
WasitacatisaW's picture
Posts: 28
Joined: 2011-03-16
User is offlineOffline

Kapkao
atheistSuperfanBronze Member
Kapkao's picture
Posts: 4121
Joined: 2010-01-12
User is offlineOffline
WasitacatisaW wrote:Anybody

WasitacatisaW wrote:
Anybody have any information? I'm surprised how little this event has been discussed in the media, and other scientific journal forums.

A US sub accidentally launched a missile around San Fran bay a few months after that happened. Naturally, it shook up a few civilians, and some local news teams reported on it. Not a single word from the navy about it, though, likely because it was an embarrassment of technical incompetence (the same sort of embarrassment conveyed by the gigantic diplomatic cable leak Julian Assange has released to the public over several months.)

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


WasitacatisaW
atheist
WasitacatisaW's picture
Posts: 28
Joined: 2011-03-16
User is offlineOffline
Kapkao wrote:WasitacatisaW

Kapkao wrote:

WasitacatisaW wrote:
Anybody have any information? I'm surprised how little this event has been discussed in the media, and other scientific journal forums.

A US sub accidentally launched a missile around San Fran bay a few months after that happened. Naturally, it shook up a few civilians, and some local news teams reported on it. Not a single word from the navy about it, though, likely because it was an embarrassment of technical incompetence (the same sort of embarrassment conveyed by the gigantic diplomatic cable leak Julian Assange has released to the public over several months.)

 

Wait, the news report from the local team was reporting on this missile being launched, and not the lights, right? Otherwise, if you could find a link it would be greatly appreciated. I would love to see a journalistic view of the events in norway.


Kapkao
atheistSuperfanBronze Member
Kapkao's picture
Posts: 4121
Joined: 2010-01-12
User is offlineOffline
I can find a journal link to

I can find a journal link to the missile launch, that's all...

My other post addressed the russians being quiet about it.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
 OK, we do have a thread

 

OK, we do have a thread about that which started right after it happened. The consensus was that the spiral was consistent with a missile going out of control.

 

Then too, of course the Russians denied the matter. It was a military exercise and a failed one at that. Even if it had been a success, they would have been silent on the matter because no nation wants other nations to know what toys they have.

 

In a similar vein, when they lost the submarine Kursk several years ago, they let the entire crew die even though we had the hardware to rescue them not far away and we offered to let them use it. As far as anyone can tell, the reason was that they were trying to conceal the fact that the Kursk was armed with a new type of torpedo that can travel faster than the speed of sound in water, thus rendering sonar useless.

 

Kapkao wrote:
A US sub accidentally launched a missile around San Fran bay a few months after that happened. Naturally, it shook up a few civilians, and some local news teams reported on it. Not a single word from the navy about it, though, likely because it was an embarrassment of technical incompetence (the same sort of embarrassment conveyed by the gigantic diplomatic cable leak Julian Assange has released to the public over several months.)

 

That one did not pan out. Actually, it was a blogger who figured it out and in only a few days.

 

The evidence for the event was a single still frame that supposedly showed the exhaust trail. Not exactly solid evidence there. What the guy did was to grab images off of public traffic cams that happened to be placed well for the work. The “exhaust trail” turned out to be the contrail from a regularly scheduled FedEx 747.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but yah...

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


butterbattle
ModeratorSuperfan
butterbattle's picture
Posts: 3686
Joined: 2008-09-12
User is offlineOffline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


Ktulu
atheist
Posts: 1830
Joined: 2010-12-21
User is offlineOffline
butterbattle wrote:Half a

you're so efficient butter Smiling lol 15 seconds of typing 

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


WasitacatisaW
atheist
WasitacatisaW's picture
Posts: 28
Joined: 2011-03-16
User is offlineOffline
butterbattle wrote:Half a

Sorry man. Search engines are flooded with ridiculous theories and claims. I don't typically use wikipedia for it's occasional unreliable sources. I tend to ignore mainstream media accounts as well, leaving scientific journals and direct quotes from scientific professionals for me to pull my data from. 


Ktulu
atheist
Posts: 1830
Joined: 2010-12-21
User is offlineOffline
WasitacatisaW

WasitacatisaW wrote:

Sorry man. Search engines are flooded with ridiculous theories and claims. I don't typically use wikipedia for it's occasional unreliable sources. I tend to ignore mainstream media accounts as well, leaving scientific journals and direct quotes from scientific professionals for me to pull my data from. 

I am more skeptical then thou art!, I only believe hand written accounts by said scientists, IN BLOOD!.  Preferably after torturing them for shits and giggles. 

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
(No subject)

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


butterbattle
ModeratorSuperfan
butterbattle's picture
Posts: 3686
Joined: 2008-09-12
User is offlineOffline
WasitacatisaW wrote:Sorry

WasitacatisaW wrote:
Sorry man. Search engines are flooded with ridiculous theories and claims. I don't typically use wikipedia for it's occasional unreliable sources. I tend to ignore mainstream media accounts as well, leaving scientific journals and direct quotes from scientific professionals for me to pull my data from. 

Pretty much every convenient source I know and consider mostly reliable that mentioned it agrees that it's an out of control missile. Even Newscientist.

Quote:
That is exactly what it was, says Jonathan McDowell, an astrophysicist at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and author of Jonathan's Space Report, a fortnightly email newsletter about space launches. "It's definitely a missile launch failure," he told New Scientist. 'Embarrassing setback'

He says it was most likely a failed test of Russia's submarine-launched Bulava ballistic missile, which is intended to be able to evade missile-defence systems.

"We know that the Russian Navy submarine Dmitry Donskoy is in the White Sea and was preparing for the 12th test launch of the Bulava missile, which has had numerous failures," he says.

Of the missile's 11 previous launches since 2005, six have been failures, a track record that might explain why Russia has reportedly denied a Wednesday launch, McDowell says: "This could be because another Bulava failure is a huge and embarrassing setback for their programme."

  

I can't say I'm 100% certain that this is what happened (heck, I never say I'm 100% certain about anything), but it's enough for me to lose interest in the topic.

I'm not sure what you're looking for in some random UFO thing.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


WasitacatisaW
atheist
WasitacatisaW's picture
Posts: 28
Joined: 2011-03-16
User is offlineOffline
butterbattle

butterbattle wrote:

WasitacatisaW wrote:
Sorry man. Search engines are flooded with ridiculous theories and claims. I don't typically use wikipedia for it's occasional unreliable sources. I tend to ignore mainstream media accounts as well, leaving scientific journals and direct quotes from scientific professionals for me to pull my data from. 

I can't say I'm 100% certain that this is what happened (heck, I never say I'm 100% certain about anything), but it's enough for me to lose interest in the topic.

I'm not sure what you're looking for in some random UFO thing.

Nah, I was actually just pointing out that I had not even read the fact that the missile was for sure Russian, because I skip main media sources, and wikipedia. Not that I particularily think that this isn't true, nor was I looking for some random UFO thing, ha. I'm not trying to look too far into anything, I just merely hadn't read that information anywhere else.


mellestad
Moderator
Posts: 2927
Joined: 2009-08-19
User is offlineOffline
@Gene: <3 

@Gene: <3

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


butterbattle
ModeratorSuperfan
butterbattle's picture
Posts: 3686
Joined: 2008-09-12
User is offlineOffline
WasitacatisaW wrote:Nah, I

WasitacatisaW wrote:
Nah, I was actually just pointing out that I had not even read the fact that the missile was for sure Russian, because I skip main media sources, and wikipedia. Not that I particularily think that this isn't true, nor was I looking for some random UFO thing, ha. I'm not trying to look too far into anything, I just merely hadn't read that information anywhere else.

You should not skip so many different sources of information, imo.

You can try to only get first hand opinions from scientists in the field if you want, but that does not make you more informed; it just drastically reduces the amount of information available to you. Of course, wikipedia, google, and news sources are not 100% reliable, but neither are scientists. Scientists can be wrong; they disagree with each other all the time. True, scientists are the ones that understand the issue the best, and many of the sources you don't trust have biases and ulterior motives, but the point is you always have to rely on your own judgment to analyze the information that you receive.

So, I think that the best way to learn about these kinds of topics is to gather as much information from as many sources as possible and then, look through that information, instead of rejecting possible sources of information based on their category. I have a much lower threshold for what I consider a "good" source.  


 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


Kapkao
atheistSuperfanBronze Member
Kapkao's picture
Posts: 4121
Joined: 2010-01-12
User is offlineOffline
Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

That one did not pan out. Actually, it was a blogger who figured it out and in only a few days.

 

The evidence for the event was a single still frame that supposedly showed the exhaust trail. Not exactly solid evidence there. What the guy did was to grab images off of public traffic cams that happened to be placed well for the work. The “exhaust trail” turned out to be the contrail from a regularly scheduled FedEx 747.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but yah...

/shrug

No bubble to burst, I was simply repeating what I've read from someone else (it wasn't a blog, though)

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


WasitacatisaW
atheist
WasitacatisaW's picture
Posts: 28
Joined: 2011-03-16
User is offlineOffline
butterbattle

butterbattle wrote:

WasitacatisaW wrote:
Nah, I was actually just pointing out that I had not even read the fact that the missile was for sure Russian, because I skip main media sources, and wikipedia. Not that I particularily think that this isn't true, nor was I looking for some random UFO thing, ha. I'm not trying to look too far into anything, I just merely hadn't read that information anywhere else.

You should not skip so many different sources of information, imo.

You can try to only get first hand opinions from scientists in the field if you want, but that does not make you more informed; it just drastically reduces the amount of information available to you. Of course, wikipedia, google, and news sources are not 100% reliable, but neither are scientists. Scientists can be wrong; they disagree with each other all the time. True, scientists are the ones that understand the issue the best, and many of the sources you don't trust have biases and ulterior motives, but the point is you always have to rely on your own judgment to analyze the information that you receive.

So, I think that the best way to learn about these kinds of topics is to gather as much information from as many sources as possible and then, look through that information, instead of rejecting possible sources of information based on their category. I have a much lower threshold for what I consider a "good" source.  

 

 

Good call bro. I shall see how revising my strategy of the way I research works.


mellestad
Moderator
Posts: 2927
Joined: 2009-08-19
User is offlineOffline
I don't see wiki as the end

I don't see wiki as the end place, but it is often a beginning.  Most entries have citations and you can use those to track down the original data and make far better inquiries.

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


WasitacatisaW
atheist
WasitacatisaW's picture
Posts: 28
Joined: 2011-03-16
User is offlineOffline
mellestad wrote:I don't see

mellestad wrote:

I don't see wiki as the end place, but it is often a beginning.  Most entries have citations and you can use those to track down the original data and make far better inquiries.

 

Now I must admit, writing essays in my comp classes has led me to use not wiki, but it's sources.

Once again, good call, ha.


hellypetro
Posts: 3
Joined: 2011-04-14
User is offlineOffline
In the same vein, when the

In the same vein, when the submarine Kursk lost years ago, which left the entire crew dies, even if we had the equipment to save close and we offered to let him use. As anyone can tell, the reason was they were trying to hide the fact that the Kursk was armed with a new type of torpedo that can travel faster than the speed of sound in water, so it sounds unnecessary.

Sig removed by moderator. Did you have something to say or are you just trying to get that advertisement out there?