Good women are obedient, says Allah

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Good women are obedient, says Allah

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is funny.

I wonder if the Muslims call us the "Asses of Evil"...

 

"Porn is so antithetical to the Islamic consciousness that Western invaders have repeatedly used it as part of their psy-ops programs. For no other apparent purpose than to outrage Muslims, the CIA reputedly hosts several "Islamic porn" sites depicting alleged Muslim women huffing cock and riding the baloney pony. In 2001, the website for militant Muslim group Hamas was hacked so that surfers were led to "Hot Motel Horny Sex Sluts." In 2002, an Islamic News Network TV program in the scaldingly fundamentalist Iranian province of Hamedan was interrupted with three minutes of hardcore sex. When Israeli troops occupied the West Bank town of Ramallah in 2002, they seized three of the city's four television stations and broadcast nonstop pornography. And after their pillaging of Fallujah in May of 2004, US troops reportedly littered the deeply religious Iraqi city with thousands of hardcore porno pictures." :  Viceland Magazine

 

 

http://www.viceland.com/int/v12n1/htdocs/hot.php

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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Awesome article.Maybe if

Awesome article.

Maybe if they jerked off more, they'd rape and stone less.

 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Can't get this grin of my

Can't get this grin of my face Laughing out loud


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And like the god of Jesus,

And like the god of Jesus, Allah gives you as Hitchens puts it, "an entertainment center in the middle of a sewage system", then tells you not to play with it.

I do think that there IS bad porn, but not for religious reasons. There are people exploited by force or by addictions. And there are people who even if not forced into it, take risks with their bodies only later to regret it. THOSE would be lagit reasons to look at porn, IN A GIVEN CONTEXT.

But, the bullshit attitude that the god/s of Abraham have of sex is archaic and sexist. I see nothing wrong with adults having sex, even on camera for the purpose of making money, when it is consensual and risks are known and safety is taking into account. Just like risks we take in all other aspects of our lives.

Religion does to sex what it does to all other aspects of life. It teaches us to demonize that which we don't understand rather than to study life and find solutions to human problems.

If it were not for sex our species wouldn't exist. It would be nice humans only worry was porn and not bombs or guns.

I don't feel guilty in the least jacking off. Women have body parts I enjoy looking at, but simply because I do doesn't make them objects and doesn't make them "sluts" if they chose to entertain me with such.

These ancient superstitions do nothing but oppress women and treat them like objects to be used as baby factories to create gang members for their fictitious sky daddy.

 

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butterbattle wrote:Maybe if

butterbattle wrote:

Maybe if they jerked off more, they'd rape and stone less.

 

 

 

LOL

 

 

The article didn't even quote the full verse (4:34) which is arguably the worst verse in the Quran. 

Quran wrote:

Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme

Note that in one verse, Muhammad declares:

1) Men are superior to women.

2) Men should earn money, not women.

3) Women should be obedient to men. 

4) Sexual repression of women.

5) Women are little children that you should scold, then send them to time out, then beat them (the arabic is clear, the best apologists can do is insert [lightly] in brackets) if they disobey you. 

6) This is all cool because god is awesome, so stfu and accept it.

 


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Ya, pretty tough guys,

Ya, pretty tough guys, huh?

 

Not so tough when they run their mouths, and a man who disagrees calls them out, and asks if they'd like to step outside, so that they can explain the concept to you better...

 

Then their dicks go limp...

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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lalib wrote:Note that in one

lalib wrote:

Note that in one verse, Muhammad declares:

1) Men are superior to women.

2) Men should earn money, not women.

3) Women should be obedient to men. 

4) Sexual repression of women.

5) Women are little children that you should scold, then send them to time out, then beat them (the arabic is clear, the best apologists can do is insert [lightly] in brackets) if they disobey you. 

6) This is all cool because god is awesome, so stfu and accept it.

 

I have always had difficulties understanding why anyone who is an adult - man or woman - stays in an abusive relationship.  I have had friends who were psychologists try to explain to me that often these people were raised in an abusive household and so they are conditioned to believe they deserve the abuse.

But I have also known men and women who broke that cycle.  Who said, fuck it, and walked out and made it stick.  I'm not saying it was easy for them, just that it can be done.

Try to raise your hand to me and - "See this cast iron skillet?  See your head?  Make the connection."

Okay, if a woman in an Islamic country said that - or followed through - I understand his relatives would swarm in the house and beat her.  And if she tried to leave the house, she could be beaten by any stranger for not having a male escort.  Perhaps if the people in that country that didn't believe in the abuse would gang up on the abusers - maybe some changes could be effected. 

  Glad I don't live anywhere like that as I would be dead tomorrow.

 

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cj wrote: I have always had

cj wrote:

 

I have always had difficulties understanding why anyone who is an adult - man or woman - stays in an abusive relationship.  I have had friends who were psychologists try to explain to me that often these people were raised in an abusive household and so they are conditioned to believe they deserve the abuse.

But I have also known men and women who broke that cycle.  Who said, fuck it, and walked out and made it stick.  I'm not saying it was easy for them, just that it can be done.

 

It is very difficult to break the cycle of abuse. But even in Muslim countries, it often isn't physical or obvious abuse. Women are conditioned to not want a job, to want to pop out 12 babies, to obey their husbands. Sure there are people who do beat thier wives, but even without physical abuse, the emotional and psychological abuse and manipulation is extreme.

When I talk to young teenagers in Syria, they are convinced that it is self evident that women are weaker than men. When I point out obvious counter examples of women who could kick their ass, the response is a No True Male could be beaten by a women fallacy. 

In the case of Islam, the abuser also has the advantage of a society that expects women to be obedient and a patriarchal religion that supports his abuse. 

 

cj wrote:

Try to raise your hand to me and - "See this cast iron skillet?  See your head?  Make the connection."

Okay, if a woman in an Islamic country said that - or followed through - I understand his relatives would swarm in the house and beat her.  And if she tried to leave the house, she could be beaten by any stranger for not having a male escort.  Perhaps if the people in that country that didn't believe in the abuse would gang up on the abusers - maybe some changes could be effected. 

  Glad I don't live anywhere like that as I would be dead tomorrow.

Most Islamic countries allow women to walk outside without a male escort, but it is still taboo to be out late as a women and taboo to even be out of the house by yourself. What we see on TV is usually the extremes of the Taliban, this of course is not to excuse the 'milder' form that exists across the middle east. Women who stay out 'late' (ie, after 7....) are see as 'slutty' and probably hookers. If they get raped, then of course it is their own fault for being out late.

 

Religiously approved patriarchy and sexism is the biggest problem in the middle east, in my opinion. I was trying to explain to one of my former friends that both the culture and religion of the middle east seek to impose a patriarchy and if we can get young muslims to understand this, perhaps they can resist the partriarchy from a base level. His response? Well, Islam imposes a patriarchy, but that's fine b/c it's from God. Mind you, he was born and raised in the US... 

 

Some changes are slowly occurring, see the protests in the Middle East. The populus of the middle east is being exposed to the west, the government can no longer stop them from being exposed to ideas of freedom and democracy. Most middle easterns hate their government. Whether this also translates into a less patriarchal society is still something to be seen, but hopefully the same process that led to the overthrow of dicatators leads to the same overthrow of patriarchy. 


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lalib wrote:Religiously

lalib wrote:

Religiously approved patriarchy and sexism is the biggest problem in the middle east, in my opinion. I was trying to explain to one of my former friends that both the culture and religion of the middle east seek to impose a patriarchy and if we can get young muslims to understand this, perhaps they can resist the partriarchy from a base level. His response? Well, Islam imposes a patriarchy, but that's fine b/c it's from God. Mind you, he was born and raised in the US... 

 

That excuse is used by christians in the west as well.  Some of the change has to come from women - I won't let you beat me up, I won't let you run my life, I won't.  And I will defend myself.

I'm taking speech class this term and one of the women in the class just gave a speech on domestic violence.  She is white - and she told the story how her sister-in-law's sister was killed by her soon-to-be ex-husband during the divorce process.

There has to be a way - to convince any one - man or woman - that they do not deserve to be hurt.  That it is not normal to be abused and just because people 1000 or more years ago thought it was okay does not make it okay - either then or now.  And we need to teach people - here is how to tell if you are involved with an abuser, here is how to safely get out of the relationship without getting injured, and how to defend yourself. 

The abuser is not exempt from doing some work.  Just because you were abused, does not give you reason or excuse for abusing someone else.  Be angry, but that doesn't mean you can hurt other people or destroy their property.  Educate yourself, work on appropriate expression of emotion, and realize you can learn to change your ways of coping.  No one is impressed if you have no more self control than a 2 year old child.

 

lalib wrote:

Some changes are slowly occurring, see the protests in the Middle East. The populus of the middle east is being exposed to the west, the government can no longer stop them from being exposed to ideas of freedom and democracy. Most middle easterns hate their government. Whether this also translates into a less patriarchal society is still something to be seen, but hopefully the same process that led to the overthrow of dicatators leads to the same overthrow of patriarchy. 

 

It would be a great step forward for those countries.  Just as it was a great step forward for those who do not subscribe to those ideas here in the west.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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cj wrote:There has to be a

cj wrote:

There has to be a way - to convince any one - man or woman - that they do not deserve to be hurt.  That it is not normal to be abused and just because people 1000 or more years ago thought it was okay does not make it okay - either then or now.  And we need to teach people - here is how to tell if you are involved with an abuser, here is how to safely get out of the relationship without getting injured, and how to defend yourself. 

The abuser is not exempt from doing some work.  Just because you were abused, does not give you reason or excuse for abusing someone else.  Be angry, but that doesn't mean you can hurt other people or destroy their property.  Educate yourself, work on appropriate expression of emotion, and realize you can learn to change your ways of coping.  No one is impressed if you have no more self control than a 2 year old child.

I agree with you 100%.

There needs to be more exposure to this kind of thing.

France is one of the first countries to really shine a light on this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1240770/France-introduce-new-law-banning-psychological-violence-marriages.html

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1952552,00.html

 

I'm not sure if those articles cover it, but they're also making it clear that there is no distinction between genders, for these types of abuses, either psychological, or physical.

 

There are few things that get me really bent out of shape, but, abuse of women, children, even animals, makes me violently defensive.

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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cj wrote:  There has to be

cj wrote:

 

 

There has to be a way - to convince any one - man or woman - that they do not deserve to be hurt.  That it is not normal to be abused and just because people 1000 or more years ago thought it was okay does not make it okay - either then or now.  And we need to teach people - here is how to tell if you are involved with an abuser, here is how to safely get out of the relationship without getting injured, and how to defend yourself. 

 

Agreed. Empowering people to stand up for themselves and fight back is an awesome thing to behold. 


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lalib wrote: cj wrote:    

lalib wrote:

cj wrote:

 

 

There has to be a way - to convince any one - man or woman - that they do not deserve to be hurt.  That it is not normal to be abused and just because people 1000 or more years ago thought it was okay does not make it okay - either then or now.  And we need to teach people - here is how to tell if you are involved with an abuser, here is how to safely get out of the relationship without getting injured, and how to defend yourself. 

 

Agreed. Empowering people to stand up for themselves and fight back is an awesome thing to behold. 

 

Bt what if they are perfectly ok with what happening to them right nw?? Most of the hardcore believer muslim girls are agreed that the men are superior and they have complete control over women..They even says its absolutely right to beat a disobedient wife... i am saying this from my personal experience.. reason is simple.. THE FEAR OF ALLAH AND QURAN.. BCOZ QURAN TEACH THEM ALL THESE CRAP... they are all brainwashed  


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redneF

redneF wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is funny.

I wonder if the Muslims call us the "Asses of Evil"...

 

"Porn is so antithetical to the Islamic consciousness that Western invaders have repeatedly used it as part of their psy-ops programs. For no other apparent purpose than to outrage Muslims, the CIA reputedly hosts several "Islamic porn" sites depicting alleged Muslim women huffing cock and riding the baloney pony. In 2001, the website for militant Muslim group Hamas was hacked so that surfers were led to "Hot Motel Horny Sex Sluts." In 2002, an Islamic News Network TV program in the scaldingly fundamentalist Iranian province of Hamedan was interrupted with three minutes of hardcore sex. When Israeli troops occupied the West Bank town of Ramallah in 2002, they seized three of the city's four television stations and broadcast nonstop pornography. And after their pillaging of Fallujah in May of 2004, US troops reportedly littered the deeply religious Iraqi city with thousands of hardcore porno pictures." :  Viceland Magazine

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Dumping hard core porn on a

Dumping hard core porn on a country that despises porn only gives them more reason to hate us - it does nothing to help the situation.

Shoving images of women being treated like meat and sex objects in the faces of people who practice modesty is counter productive.

I think you all sound like a bunch of hypocrites... it's okay with you to use women as sex objects but it's not okay to abuse them... what's the difference?  and don't give me that crap about how it's a woman's choice to participate in porn. Given a choice between making a million bucks either with her clothes on or, naked, being fucked, I would bet a dollar any sane, self-respecting woman would choose the former option.

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alexmbabu wrote:lalib wrote:

alexmbabu wrote:

lalib wrote:

cj wrote:
 

There has to be a way - to convince any one - man or woman - that they do not deserve to be hurt.  That it is not normal to be abused and just because people 1000 or more years ago thought it was okay does not make it okay - either then or now.  And we need to teach people - here is how to tell if you are involved with an abuser, here is how to safely get out of the relationship without getting injured, and how to defend yourself. 

Agreed. Empowering people to stand up for themselves and fight back is an awesome thing to behold. 

Bt what if they are perfectly ok with what happening to them right nw?? Most of the hardcore believer muslim girls are agreed that the men are superior and they have complete control over women..They even says its absolutely right to beat a disobedient wife... i am saying this from my personal experience.. reason is simple.. THE FEAR OF ALLAH AND QURAN.. BCOZ QURAN TEACH THEM ALL THESE CRAP... they are all brainwashed  

 

Yes, they are brainwashed.  That was my point.  They need to learn to say - no, I do not deserve to be hit.  Abuse happens in other places and other religions - and even atheists have been known to hit each other.  It is not a healthy place to be.

I don't know how to un-brainwash someone.  I have read of and have met people who have managed to un-brainwash themselves.  Usually, they need a lot of help from friends and professionals - psychologists and social workers for example.  But the motivation has to come from within a person - and that is always true no matter what changes we are discussing.

Learning about other people and ways of coping with the world around you is a start.  I don't know where to go from there.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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Sandycane wrote:Dumping hard

Sandycane wrote:

Dumping hard core porn on a country that despises porn only gives them more reason to hate us - it does nothing to help the situation.

Shoving images of women being treated like meat and sex objects in the faces of people who practice modesty is counter productive.

I think you all sound like a bunch of hypocrites... it's okay with you to use women as sex objects but it's not okay to abuse them... what's the difference?  and don't give me that crap about how it's a woman's choice to participate in porn. Given a choice between making a million bucks either with her clothes on or, naked, being fucked, I would bet a dollar any sane, self-respecting woman would choose the former option.

 

I agree spamming pornography is likely a bad idea.  And very likely it is counter productive.  But google searches for porn are highest from the middle eastern islamic countries.  That isn't spamming or shoving.

Ain't no one offering me a million cool ones to have sex - more's the pity, I could use the money.  I'd have enough money left after paying off my debts to see a therapist for any lingering self esteem issues.

You know the "to porn or not to porn" argument has been going on forever.  I don't go out of my way to view porn, but it doesn't offend me, either.  It would feel creepy to have a relationship with someone who watched or looked at porn.  Which just tells me I'm conflicted on the subject - but I knew that already.

A good looking man is a joy to behold.  Sex object?  ......mmmmmmmmmm...... Could be.  I really can't fault anyone for enjoying the view when it is freely offered.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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A good looking man is one

A good looking man is one thing, watching two (or more) people screw like animals is another. I don't have a problem with nudity as long as it's not vulgar.

I hesitated to respond to the abused woman issue but, I hate it when people make the claim that it is the fault of the one being abused - it's NOT.

I always used to wonder how a woman (or man) could continue to put up with that...until I got hooked up with an abuser myself. Luckily, he was forced, by financial problems, to leave the county and luckily, we didn't have any children tying us and I had my own home to go to.

Women who get stuck in that situation have very few options....not to mention the fact that the abusive partner has what is known as a Narcissistic Psychopath personality trait for which there is no cure.

I was very lucky...even so, this nut stalked me with emails, letters and phone calls for over a year after.

How did I make him leave?

With a baseball bat in my hand, I made him walk backwards out of my house.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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Sandycane wrote:How did I

Sandycane wrote:

How did I make him leave?

With a baseball bat in my hand, I made him walk backwards out of my house.

 

Awesome.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:Sandycane

mellestad wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

How did I make him leave?

With a baseball bat in my hand, I made him walk backwards out of my house.

 

Awesome.

Yes, it was.

This guy was the perfect gentleman...for about 3 months... then the alter personality began to show... by then, I was sucked into the trap. I am convinced these types of men intentionally seek out caring, compassionate women as their prey because they tend to over look the faults.

My first clue that this guy was actually a coward was when he attacked me while I was sitting on the couch crocheting. As he came at me, I raised my knee and kicked him in the gut and sent him flying across the room. The look on his face was a dead giveaway... even still, that led to a knock down drag out fight.

He had the advantage because I had all my stuff and my cats at his house with me and I didn't want to leave them behind when I left. So, after I got things moved back to my house, the last time I left his house, he was walking behind me and pushing me as I walked towards the back door. When I stepped outside, he pushed me again... so, I set down my purse on the ground and took a step towards him and said, 'You want to hit me? Come on then.' He stepped back in the house and locked the storm door.   Clue #2.

This went on a couple of more times because he would come over, be sweet and apologize and say he was sorry and (being the good Christian that I was) I would forgive him.

The last straw was when he drove me to Fla to see my dad who was dying of cancer. We came back home so I could take care of some business and go back and stay longer (which ended up being only 3 days because dad passed away). The night we got home, he wanted me to drive him to his sisters house an hour away. I said I would drop him off in the morning instead. He went ballistic, cussing and yelling, etc...

Something clicked and I calmly walked to my front door, where I kept the baseball bat, just for such an incident, and walked over to him. I didn't raise it, I just held it and said, 'Get out of my house.' He kept running his mouth - all the way out the back door.

I've had a very eventful life, to put it mildly.

 

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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Sandycane wrote:Dumping hard

Sandycane wrote:

Dumping hard core porn on a country that despises porn only gives them more reason to hate us - it does nothing to help the situation.

It's called "Immersion Therapy"...

 

Sandycane wrote:
Shoving images of women being treated like meat and sex objects in the faces of people who practice modesty is counter productive.

Here we go with the diatribes again...

Females in porn aren't getting raped. They're participating in having sex.

Sandycane wrote:
I think you all sound like a bunch of hypocrites...

How so?

Sandycane wrote:
it's okay with you to use women as sex objects but it's not okay to abuse them... what's the difference?  

Consent and freewill.

Sandycane wrote:
and don't give me that crap about how it's a woman's choice to participate in porn.

They're competing to get in. Haven't you heard?

Sandycane wrote:
Given a choice between making a million bucks either with her clothes on or, naked, being fucked, I would bet a dollar any sane, self-respecting woman would choose the former option.

Ever heard of Hollywood?

Ever heard of escorts?

Ever heard of Nevada?

Ever heard of Amsterdam?

Ever heard of Europe?

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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Sandycane wrote:Dumping hard

Sandycane wrote:

Dumping hard core porn on a country that despises porn only gives them more reason to hate us - it does nothing to help the situation.

Shoving images of women being treated like meat and sex objects in the faces of people who practice modesty is counter productive.

Sure... countries that forces 9 year old girls to marry 40 year old men, sentence young girls to death for being rape victims, and "wed" said girls to their executioners the day before they're about to be stoned - they sure "practice modesty" and "don't treat women like pieces of meat", huh?

Quote:

I think you all sound like a bunch of hypocrites... it's okay with you to use women as sex objects but it's not okay to abuse them... what's the difference?  

The difference is that a woman choosing to have sex while video taped has a choice, while a 9 year old girl being forced to have sex with some 40 year old Muslim pedophile doesn't have a say in the matter.

Quote:

and don't give me that crap about how it's a woman's choice to participate in porn.

It is. That's the difference between rape and consentual sex right there - that's what makes one abuse, while the other is free will.

Quote:

Given a choice between making a million bucks either with her clothes on or, naked, being fucked, I would bet a dollar any sane, self-respecting woman would choose the former option.

Well a lot of women don't make millions from it, so they could choose any other job with an equal salary but they don't.

What about football? Is that abusive to men because it portrays men like "sports objects"? If it's free will, then it isn't abuse.

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So, how does using porn help

So, how does using porn help relations between their country and ours?


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Sandycane wrote:Something

Sandycane wrote:

Something clicked and I calmly walked to my front door, where I kept the baseball bat, just for such an incident, and walked over to him. I didn't raise it, I just held it and said, 'Get out of my house.' He kept running his mouth - all the way out the back door.

I've had a very eventful life, to put it mildly.

 

You believed you didn't deserve to be hurt.  You didn't allow him to isolate you from family, friends and work.  You believed you could defend yourself. 

People who stay in abusive relationships don't have those beliefs.  They have been conditioned to accept their culpability in their own abuse.  And de-conditioning yourself is hard.  The abuser also needs work - see my previous post.  I have known people who were abusive and were able to break the cycle.  But they did not have serious personality problems, just lack of a positive role model and education.  Once educated, out of the original abusive situation, they were able to recondition themselves to more appropriate coping strategies.

Also, sometimes the abuse is temporary due to stress.  Though personally, I won't accept the apology and promises to never hit again.

But I am not intending to say there aren't people who have severe personality disorders and who are unable to change and are a menace to everyone around them. 

I was in an abusive relationship for about a year.  He was abused as a child, two tours in Nam, shrapnel to the frontal cortex - who knows what exactly screwed him up?  He left me alone after I moved in with my grandma and she had him arrested for trespassing.  A little time in jail seemed to convince him to leave town.  Like you, I had somewhere to go - my grandma's.  And like you, I was convinced I didn't deserve the abuse.  And like you, I was okay with defending myself.  Not everyone does, is, or can.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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Sandycane wrote:So, how does

Sandycane wrote:

So, how does using porn help relations between their country and ours?

Huh?

It's psychological warfare.

It's a 'tactic'.

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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redneF wrote:Sandycane

redneF wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

So, how does using porn help relations between their country and ours?

Huh?

It's psychological warfare.

It's a 'tactic'.

Yeah, I get that part. Are you saying they use porn as a weapon? For what purpose? To show them how vulgar Americans are?

So, how does it help relations between our country and theirs?

Seems to me, dropping coupons for free food would win them over more effectively.

 

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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redneF wrote:Sandycane

duplicate 


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Sandycane wrote:redneF

Sandycane wrote:

redneF wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

So, how does using porn help relations between their country and ours?

Huh?

It's psychological warfare.

It's a 'tactic'.

Yeah, I get that part. Are you saying they use porn as a weapon? For what purpose?

What part did you get?

You're going in circles...

 

Sandycane wrote:
So, how does it help relations between our country and theirs?

WTF do you think they're doing?  Trying to get them to plan their next vacation to the States?...

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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Red

 

Sandy doesn't like porn and thinks it's exploitation. Any time this stuff comes up she's going to have the same feelings well up. No point pecking each other over it. Personally I'm glad there's porn. It allows me survive being single and I give thanks to Met-Art and Nature Nudes and to all those women in simple cotton dresses who in the gold dust light of late afternoons have sacrificially draped themselves over haystacks and old fashioned bicycles the world across.

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

Sandy doesn't like porn and thinks it's exploitation. Any time this stuff comes up she's going to have the same feelings well up. No point pecking each other over it. Personally I'm glad there's porn. It allows me survive being single and I give thanks to Met-Art and Nature Nudes and to all those women in simple cotton dresses who in the gold dust light of late afternoons have sacrificially draped themselves over haystacks and old fashioned bicycles the world across.

 

 

 

You know me too well.

But, that's beside the point. I just don't see how offending the general population of a country with porn is going to win any of them over to 'our side'.

If the decent majority of those people can be shown that the majority of us are decent, I think we'd make better progress at all of us getting along.

'You catch more flies with sugar than with vinegar'.

I've been confused with Pollyanna in the past.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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Atheistextremist wrote:Sandy

Atheistextremist wrote:

Sandy doesn't like porn and thinks it's exploitation. Any time this stuff comes up she's going to have the same feelings well up.  

Well, not everyone has the same views about sex that she does. And it's not just men. Not by a long shot.

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/stories/liambartlett/648164/turned-on

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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redneF

redneF wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

Sandy doesn't like porn and thinks it's exploitation. Any time this stuff comes up she's going to have the same feelings well up.  

Well, not everyone has the same views about sex that she does. And it's not just men. Not by a long shot.

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/stories/liambartlett/648164/turned-on

 

I never said they did nor do I think they should.

If you go into someones home to remove a thief, offending the home-owner  in the process will not make them thankful.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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Sandycane wrote: I just

Sandycane wrote:

 I just don't see how offending the general population of a country with porn is going to win any of them over to 'our side'. 

You're entirely missing the point.

'You' are not the 'norm'.

Sandycane wrote:
If the decent majority of those people can be shown that the majority of us are decent...

I don't consider your attitudes about sex, normal. At all.

Whether you admit it or not, is irrelevant.

And you're not the 'majority' you think you are.

I don't even think you represent 10-20% of women below the age of 40, and probably not even 5% of women around the age of 20, in North America, or Europe.

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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No doubt

 

redneF wrote:

Well, not everyone has the same views about sex that she does. And it's not just men. Not by a long shot.

 

I've had girlfriends who were very open and loved a bit of porn. How they would have liked their partner staring at images of 20 year olds when they reached 45 is another issue.

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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redneF wrote:Sandycane

redneF wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

 I just don't see how offending the general population of a country with porn is going to win any of them over to 'our side'. 

You're entirely missing the point.

'You' are not the 'norm'.

Sandycane wrote:
If the decent majority of those people can be shown that the majority of us are decent...

I don't consider your attitudes about sex, normal. At all.

Whether you admit it or not, is irrelevant.

And you're not the 'majority' you think you are.

I don't even think you represent 10-20% of women below the age of 40, and probably not even 5% of women around the age of 20, in North America, or Europe.

 

...and that, I will take as a major compliment. Thank you.

I forget the proper debating term for what you are doing but, simply stating the majority likes porn does not mean that my views are in any way not normal.

I watched the video you posted. The experts say that porn is addicting, dangerous and interferes with ones ability to appreciate or, even recognize a 'normal' intimate relationship (paraphrasing).

What does this obsession with porn say about our society?

The planet is going to hell along with the global economy and the majority of the population prefer to spend their time watching strangers fuck?

I'm proud to be in the minority.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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 I wish someone would pay

 I wish someone would pay me a million dollars to be videotaped having sex. Or even $1000, no need to be greedy.

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Radical Muslim communities,

Radical Muslim communities, like all extremely exclusive religious communities, protect themselves by squashing dissent and isolating themselves from the outside world. Distributing porn introduces something alien that is completely antithetical to their worldview, breaking a sort of spell, imo.

Sandycane wrote:
The experts say that porn is addicting, dangerous and interferes with ones ability to appreciate or, even recognize a 'normal' intimate relationship (paraphrasing).

What is "experts?"

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Sandycane wrote:redneF

Sandycane wrote:

redneF wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

So, how does using porn help relations between their country and ours?

Huh?

It's psychological warfare.

It's a 'tactic'.

Yeah, I get that part. Are you saying they use porn as a weapon? For what purpose? To show them how vulgar Americans are?

So, how does it help relations between our country and theirs?

Seems to me, dropping coupons for free food would win them over more effectively.

 

Because those countries are ruled by oppressive religious regimes. Most young men enjoy watching porn, especially when they are sexually repressed. By giving them a little bit of access to freedom it might make them crave more and ultimately overthrow the dictators over them. Also, because sex is fun is a great reason not to strap a bomb on yourself and blow people up. In this case, the main goal is to get them to throw out the old fashioned religion that is being used to control their country. Without the religious respect, the dictators lose their power. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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butterbattle wrote:Radical

butterbattle wrote:

Radical Muslim communities, like all extremely exclusive religious communities, protect themselves by squashing dissent and isolating themselves from the outside world. Distributing porn introduces something alien that is completely antithetical to their worldview, breaking a sort of spell, imo.

Still not a nice thing to do. So, should we do the same thing to Amish and Mennonite communities?

Quote:

Sandycane wrote:
The experts say that porn is addicting, dangerous and interferes with ones ability to appreciate or, even recognize a 'normal' intimate relationship (paraphrasing).

What is "experts?"

 

Sorry, not 'experts'. Half way through the video, a woman I believe was some kind of psychologist made the comments.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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Sandycane wrote: ...and

Sandycane wrote:

 ...and that, I will take as a major compliment. Thank you.

If you take being undesirable by the majority of men with a strong libido, and being the type that is a boost in self esteem to the majority of women, as a compliment, then you're welcome.

Sandycane wrote:
I forget the proper debating term for what you are doing but, simply stating the majority likes porn does not mean that my views are in any way not normal.

I'm not fixated on porn. You are.

You have this issue about women being 'objectified', which is a fallacy, by modern standards, in North America and Europe, for instance.

Ever heard of 'Spring Break'??

 

We had this debate in the Pussy Cat Dolls thread, and you're still going in the same circles.

I told you that for the majority of women, their sexual appeal and desirability is a very core aspect of their overall self worth.

Studies show that up to 55% percent of marriages will end in divorce, and other studies show that up to 75% of those that initiate the divorce will be women, and that 'sex' (or lack of sex) were at the top of the list of 'reasons'.

Sandycane wrote:
I watched the video you posted. The experts say that porn is addicting...

That's a red herring.

Porn just exemplifies how sex is prevalent on the minds of humans.

Sandycane wrote:
dangerous and interferes with ones ability to appreciate or, even recognize a 'normal' intimate relationship (paraphrasing).

Well, I'll agree to the extent that someone might not be as interested in being with someone who isn't as uninhibited as people in porn.

Sandycane wrote:
What does this obsession with porn say about our society?

You're using the same red herring.

If you're having 'vanilla' sex, then porn is 'over the top' titillating. If you're having titillating sex, then, it's not very appealing.

Sandycane wrote:
The planet is going to hell along with the global economy and the majority of the population prefer to spend their time watching strangers fuck?

You mean people should stop having libidos, and spend their time obsessing over how the 'powers that be' are fucking up the world?

Sandycane wrote:
I'm proud to be in the minority.

I'm so glad you are the minority.

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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Beyond Saving wrote:Because

Beyond Saving wrote:

Because those countries are ruled by oppressive religious regimes. Most young men enjoy watching porn, especially when they are sexually repressed. By giving them a little bit of access to freedom it might make them crave more and ultimately overthrow the dictators over them. Also, because sex is fun is a great reason not to strap a bomb on yourself and blow people up. In this case, the main goal is to get them to throw out the old fashioned religion that is being used to control their country. Without the religious respect, the dictators lose their power. 

Is it working?

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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redneF wrote:Sandycane

redneF wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

 ...and that, I will take as a major compliment. Thank you.

If you take being undesirable by the majority of men with a strong libido, and being the type that is a boost in self esteem to the majority of women, as a compliment, then you're welcome.

So, do you think that the 'majority of men with a strong libido' only find women who like porn attractive?

The source of my self-esteem and self-respect has nothing to do with sex. Unfortunately and sadly, some people think that being googled and drooled over is something to be admired. It's not.

I'm tired of going in circles with you over this topic (again). I've got to go study a new catalog.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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Sandycane wrote:So, should

Sandycane wrote:

So, should we do the same thing to Amish and Mennonite communities?

We do. Amish and Mennonite teenagers often spend time amongst us heathens where they sometimes experiment with the joys of technology, sex, drugs, alcohol etc. Until they decide to accept the faith and are baptized as adults, they can get away with a period of sinning without being shunned by the community. Different sects allow different amounts of time but generally it is somewhere around the ages of 16-19 years old. Those who decide to leave the community after this period are never welcomed back and generally even their own families will never speak with them again. 

 

Sandycane wrote:

Is it working?

Perhaps. There is revolutions occurring throughout Muslim nations, mostly being pushed by the youth. To what extent it is attributable to the porn who knows. The internet certainly has much to do with it. Although, the outcome of these revolutions and whether or not any real freedom movement will take over or if it will just be new dictators is uncertain. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Sandycane wrote:redneF

Sandycane wrote:

redneF wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

 ...and that, I will take as a major compliment. Thank you.

If you take being undesirable by the majority of men with a strong libido, and being the type that is a boost in self esteem to the majority of women, as a compliment, then you're welcome.

So, do you think that the 'majority of men with a strong libido' only find women who like porn attractive?

Don't be obtuse. It's obnoxious.

The majority of men don't find prudes and women with sexual 'hangups' attractive.

Sandycane wrote:

The source of my self-esteem and self-respect has nothing to do with sex.

I said 'typically' women do.

You keep demonstrating clearly that you're not typical. But for some reason, arbitrarily think your attitudes are exemplary.

Sandycane wrote:

Unfortunately and sadly, some people think...

That your sexual attitudes and hangups are stupid?

Sandycane wrote:

I'm tired of going in circles with you over this topic (again).

I doubt it won't happen again. You have militant female chauvinistic attitudes about men, sexually liberated women, and about sex in general...

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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Sandycane wrote:Still not a

Sandycane wrote:
Still not a nice thing to do. So, should we do the same thing to Amish and Mennonite communities?

If it really helps undermine the rule of radical Islam in the community, then I do think it is a nice thing to do. The harm done by showing them some porn (if there is any harm at all) doesn't compare at all to successfully overthrowing Sharia law and bringing them out of the Dark Ages. Your only reasons for concluding that this is "not nice" that I can think of is that: first, porn is somehow "bad," which you will need to provide evidence for, and second, that this will destroy their culture, which I do not see as a bad thing at all i.e. I think this aspect of Islamic culture should be destroyed.   

Should we do the same thing to Amish and Mennonite communities? That's a good question. I'm inclined to say yes, but not to the same extent. You're sort of implying that this is the same thing though, but it's really not comparable. Surely, you understand how terrible the world of radical Islam is?

Sandycane wrote:
Unfortunately and sadly, some people think that being googled and drooled over is something to be admired. It's not.

That is a subjective value judgment.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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redneF wrote:Sandycane

redneF wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

 I just don't see how offending the general population of a country with porn is going to win any of them over to 'our side'. 

You're entirely missing the point.

'You' are not the 'norm'.

Sandycane wrote:
If the decent majority of those people can be shown that the majority of us are decent...

I don't consider your attitudes about sex, normal. At all.

Whether you admit it or not, is irrelevant.

And you're not the 'majority' you think you are.

I don't even think you represent 10-20% of women below the age of 40, and probably not even 5% of women around the age of 20, in North America, or Europe.

 

Well, it appears you are right about one thing... after seeing that video, I'll admit that I am a part of the decent minority. I had no idea that porn has become such an obsession with so many people.

However, your claim that I am not normal because I am in the minority is absurd.

It is just as absurd as the theist argument that atheists are wrong because they are the minority.

...and that's exactly what you sound like to me: a theist defending his illogical belief.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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Sandycane wrote:redneF

Sandycane wrote:

redneF wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

 I just don't see how offending the general population of a country with porn is going to win any of them over to 'our side'. 

You're entirely missing the point.

'You' are not the 'norm'.

Sandycane wrote:
If the decent majority of those people can be shown that the majority of us are decent...

I don't consider your attitudes about sex, normal. At all.

Whether you admit it or not, is irrelevant.

And you're not the 'majority' you think you are.

I don't even think you represent 10-20% of women below the age of 40, and probably not even 5% of women around the age of 20, in North America, or Europe.

 

Well, it appears you are right about one thing... after seeing that video, I'll admit that I am a part of the decent minority. I had no idea that porn has become such an obsession with so many people.

However, your claim that I am not normal because I am in the minority is absurd.

It is just as absurd as the theist argument that atheists are wrong because they are the minority.

...and that's exactly what you sound like to me: a theist defending his illogical belief.

Sandy, I'm pretty sure everyone who disagrees with you sounds like a theist defending their illogical beliefs.  

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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redneF wrote:Ever heard of

redneF wrote:

Ever heard of Hollywood?

Ever heard of escorts?

Ever heard of Nevada?

Ever heard of Amsterdam?

Ever heard of Europe?

Ever heard of:

Modesty?

Virtuous?

Chastity?

Purity?

Decency?

 

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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mellestad wrote:Sandy, I'm

mellestad wrote:

Sandy, I'm pretty sure everyone who disagrees with you sounds like a theist defending their illogical beliefs.  

Not so...I have an open mind (though, my legs are closed   ). I haven't seen anything presented that would cause me to change it.

I'm sorry, I guess I'm just old fashioned about some things - even though I see some traditional habits as out dated such as the marriage ritual. At the same time, I don't see how a man can have any respect for a woman who will stick anything in her mouth (or other body parts) and is willing to accommodate any and all who inquire access.

I am hardly a prude but, in my mind, there just is something seriously wrong with porn.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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Sandycane wrote:I am hardly

Sandycane wrote:

I am hardly a prude but, in my mind, there just is something seriously wrong with porn.

  Sandy, I hope you don't mind but I have an eye fetish and I'm whacking off to your avatar right now......

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

I am hardly a prude but, in my mind, there just is something seriously wrong with porn.

  Sandy, I hope you don't mind but I have an eye fetish and I'm whacking off to your avatar right now......

Would it still work if I said I was watching you?

'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' ... I'm sure there is a joke in there but, I can't find it.

PS I love your choice of avatars!

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
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  Watch me ?  ..well that

  Watch me ?  ..well that would just be sick !!!

 

 

   ( I'm just teasing you a bit  )

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.