New-to-me bizarre belief of a "Christian"

BethK
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New-to-me bizarre belief of a "Christian"

I have a new neighbor who is trying to bring me "the good news". It was okay for a time, then got old. I eventually renounced the holy spirit, the "unforgivable sin", and pointed out in her bible that even Jesus says he cannot "save" me now. But, evidently, she has more such abilities than Jesus.

 

She's something of a fundamentalist. Yet, at the same time, uses some JW beliefs, like Jesus is the Archangel Mighael (and doesn't even seem to care that it's a retread of the old Arian Heresy that's been around since the 4th century). I can deal with either one of those, or both together. The real kicker is that she's absolutely SURE that Jesus is in a spaceship and is coming back for her and all of the "faithful" in 2012! We all know about the 2012 nonsense and hysteria, mostly from New Age types. 

 

I've run into the 2012 end-of-the-world stuff from New Agers, and some of their beliefs that a spaceship will come and beam them up just before we are destroyed. Nevermind why it is that any extraterrestrial race should even care about a lifeform who has not developed interstellar space travel - unless it is to wipe us out and take our resources. Like Stephen Hawking, I believe that any race who has evolved that far could well be a threat to human life - not have some desire to "teach" or "help" us. I've encountered the notion of the Hale-Bopp crowd and their ludicrous notions. But... Jesus returning in a SPACE SHIP?

 

To watch these people "dance" is funny if it weren't so sad. I asked her how she knew that Jesus was returning in a space ship - where in the Bible was that predicted? As she is a fundamentalist, she should have picked up on that. No such luck. "I know what I know".

 

Has anyone else run into this particular delusional notion? If so, who came up with it and when?

 

This person is in many ways intelligent and can learn very well. She's got a college degree. Just in this one area, there seem to be blinders. If nothing else, I'll wait about 22 months and on January 1, 2013, ask why the world hasn't ended, and if Jesus' spaceship got lost.

 

If you can't give me any information on this or make any suggestions, just shake your head like I am. This certainly falls under "Irrational Precepts"! This one even had me shaking my head with "IRRATIONAL", and I thought I'd heard them all.

 

Beth

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Beth


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I'd mess with her.Tell her

I'd mess with her.

Tell her that that one of the deep space probes picked up an anomaly, and Norad is tracking it's trajectory in the direction of earth, and intends to lock missiles with atomic warheads on it, in case it's on a collision course with us.

She how she reacts...

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

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 I have a friend that over

 I have a friend that over casual conversation mentioned 2012 with a raised eyebrow, also mentioning that there are 'too many coincidences'.  My wife and his wife are very good friends, and my wife fixed me with a 'shut the fuck up' look as soon as she heard this.  I left it alone, but let him know I believe it is all BS more subtly.  There's no real response but to ridicule, and had this not been a sensitive situation, I would have indulged gladly.

Oh well... I'm sure it will be 2021 next, thinking the Aztecs were dyslexic... My usual response to this idiocy is, one thing that the aliens forgot to enlighten the Aztecs about, aside from armageddon's date, was the use of the fucking wheel.  You'd think they would have communicated that first... then moved on to the end of the world.

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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ahhh crazies!

Sorry BethK, she sounds like a real nutter and I feel bad that you have to deal with that level of bat-shit insanity. I would have to ask her, if given the chance, where she came about these ideas.

Ktulu wrote:
My usual response to this idiocy is, one thing that the aliens forgot to enlighten the Aztecs about, aside from armageddon's date, was the use of the fucking wheel.

It's the Mayan's who's Long Count ended on Dec. 21 2012, not the Aztecs. I don't understand how people can get so scared of an old calender ending, when they deal with it every year on Dec 31. and don't seem to freak! It's the start of the next calender cycle, and if you ask most living Mayan's today, they will tell you the same thing. Dec 31... oh well, just turn the page!

And they had wheels, but used them only on toys (some archeological pieces found are little toy string pull carts with wheels and axles) since the terrain for the most part made pulled carts impossible. The first Europeans to the Western Hemisphere found that out the hard way when their horses died from hoof rot trying to pull carts through the jungle.

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The most annoying thing

The most annoying thing is...........as soon as 2012 ends, there will be morons talking about the end of the world at another future date. My guess is 2020.  

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Hi Beth

 

I've not had this experience though it would be comforting to me if the dogma was presented as a frankenstein theology with all sorts of subjective 'truths' hanging off it. One thing I have experienced lately, is members of my fundy family insisting I am still a christian, but am just in denial. Once jesus has swept you up in his lightly perfumed arms, they insist, there's no going back to the house of satan. You can well imagine what an unpleasantness it all is.

In your case, Beth, you could contrive a few peculiar dogmas of your own, creating your own personal faith, and endeavouring to convert your friend in turn. Perhaps you could just insist that god is the ultimate empiricist (as he would have to be if he existed) and that by creating free will he expected us to reach out to him using the scientific method.

You could discuss a pilgrimage to Hadron to worship the nth degree - the Hoggs Bison. I'm sure your chum would approve.  

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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B166ER wrote:Sorry BethK,

B166ER wrote:

Sorry BethK, she sounds like a real nutter and I feel bad that you have to deal with that level of bat-shit insanity. I would have to ask her, if given the chance, where she came about these ideas.

Ktulu wrote:
My usual response to this idiocy is, one thing that the aliens forgot to enlighten the Aztecs about, aside from armageddon's date, was the use of the fucking wheel.

It's the Mayan's who's Long Count ended on Dec. 21 2012, not the Aztecs. I don't understand how people can get so scared of an old calender ending, when they deal with it every year on Dec 31. and don't seem to freak! It's the start of the next calender cycle, and if you ask most living Mayan's today, they will tell you the same thing. Dec 31... oh well, just turn the page!

And they had wheels, but used them only on toys (some archeological pieces found are little toy string pull carts with wheels and axles) since the terrain for the most part made pulled carts impossible. The first Europeans to the Western Hemisphere found that out the hard way when their horses died from hoof rot trying to pull carts through the jungle.

I know they had knowledge of the wheel, but not used it, and at the very least they could have tied two together and fashioned a bicycle.  I can negotiate all kinds of terrain on my mountain bike, why couldn't the Mayans or Aztecs?

/joke

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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B166ER wrote:Sorry BethK,

B166ER wrote:

Sorry BethK, she sounds like a real nutter and I feel bad that you have to deal with that level of bat-shit insanity. I would have to ask her, if given the chance, where she came about these ideas.

Ktulu wrote:
My usual response to this idiocy is, one thing that the aliens forgot to enlighten the Aztecs about, aside from armageddon's date, was the use of the fucking wheel.

It's the Mayan's who's Long Count ended on Dec. 21 2012, not the Aztecs. I don't understand how people can get so scared of an old calender ending, when they deal with it every year on Dec 31. and don't seem to freak! It's the start of the next calender cycle, and if you ask most living Mayan's today, they will tell you the same thing. Dec 31... oh well, just turn the page!

And they had wheels, but used them only on toys (some archeological pieces found are little toy string pull carts with wheels and axles) since the terrain for the most part made pulled carts impossible. The first Europeans to the Western Hemisphere found that out the hard way when their horses died from hoof rot trying to pull carts through the jungle.

I wasn't trying to imply that the Mayans/Aztecs/Americans were inferior in any way.  And were I sober, I would have typed Mayans instead of Aztecs ( I read the book "Aztec" a few years back, horrible book ) , I was just trying to emphasize the idiocy of the whole primitive culture having scientific knowledge well beyond what we now have, but overlooking the fact that they were missing the infrastructure to prove such knowledge.  The most common response is that aliens have given the knowledge... or some such shit. 

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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New claims of fictional

New claims of fictional utopias are spawn by people looking at old traditional myths and confusing the old superstition's contradictions and the hypocritical behavior of the fans of such, as an excuse to create a new myth. Simply put, they are looking for a way to stand out and don't want to give up on the idea of a utopia while rejecting the old ways.

All religions are spawns of prior motifs and are not the result of real god/s or little green men, but a result of credulity and marketing. Being successful at marketing only means that you are successful at marketing, it doesn't make what you market true because people buy it or because it is popular.

New age crap is just as silly and stupid as traditional myth. The idea that little green men planted us here through old South American cultures, is stupid. It has even been postulated by conspiracy nuts that the ancient Egyptians were visited by little green men.

And others still, claim that the universe itself is a living thinking being as a collective.

ALL OF IT is the result of the evolutionary flaw of filling in the gap with "what feels good" to us.

You can dress a utopia in a tux all you want, but shit still smells like shit and is shit, no matter how elaborate the tux is.

Crap Circles, JFK conspiracies, Big Foot, Horoscopes, Lock Ness, Ouija boards, Scientology and Kwanza, are no different than the myths of the Abraham ilk. They simply are a minority.

The reality is that life is a crap shoot and is governed by natural law that is unconscious and the cosmos is a thing and both the good and bad that happen in life do not need magic or superstition to explain.

Junk is junk no matter how new the packaging may sound.

I am no more impressed with little green men bullshit than I am when someone claims "God did it". I know what lighting is and have no need of Thor to explain that either.

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Wouldn't it be nice if, at

Wouldn't it be nice if, at the start of any conversation with a theist regarding religion we could just renounce the holy spirit and take the pressure off for them?  Then they could worry about *us* rather than our souls.

 

You'd think it would be cathartic for them.

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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Brian37 wrote:Junk is junk

Brian37 wrote:

Junk is junk no matter how new the packaging may sound.

I am no more impressed with little green men bullshit than I am when someone claims "God did it". I know what lighting is and have no need of Thor to explain that either.

I take that a step further, and claim that these individuals are discriminating against other cultures.  They simply cannot accept that an ancient american/egyptian civilization could be responsible for pyramids and other knowledge such as primitive astronomy.  I think the notion is born out of bigotry.  Considering that in evolutionary terms our brain capacity is practically identical to what it was two thousand years ago, the average north american is no more intelligent (and some may argue a lot less intelligent) than the average ancient egyptian. 

Well, that and the people making those claims are usually idiots, no offense to any idiots reading this, I'm looking at you elijatruth

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BethK wrote: Has anyone

BethK wrote:

 Has anyone else run into this particular delusional notion? If so, who came up with it and when?

Welcome to the forum.

 

I know Louis Farrakhan has made similar claims about a spaceship. He is the leader of the "Nation of Islam". I'm not sure if he believes that Jesus or Muhammad or God is on it or not. So maybe her belief is a hybrid of Christianity and Farrakhan's beliefs? Who knows. Some people will believe any crazy story you can come up with. Sometimes I wonder if it is some sort of developmental disability, because you can fool pretty much any young child with any crazy story you can imagine, but most of us grow out of it when we reach 4 or 5 years.

 

  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Marriage minded woman maybe?

So, we've got a hodge-podge here of fundamentalist Christianity, Arian Heresey, Jehovah's Witness, Farrakhan/Nation of Islam!?!? Wow!

Something old (Arian Heresey)

Something new (Jehovah's Witness) (Well, relatively)

Something borrowed (Islam)

When we get something blue (are there blue men in the spaceship, a la Hindu Gods?), we'll be all set for a wedding.   

I'll think about messing with her about that they've noted this "deep space anomaly" and NORAD is getting ready to "lock and load". But, I've got plenty of time.

Or, ask her why she's following the Nation of Islam, as she seems pretty prejudiced against Muslims/Arabs. That might bring her up short.

 

OTOH, things quieted down quite a lot into something of normalcy after I renounced the Holy Spirit. Hopefully, it'll stay that way. I just want to be "armed" better for next time.... or if I encounter the belief again.

 

I'm glad now that I'm an atheist. If I were a Bible-believing Christian, I'd know that I'm headed-straight-for-Hell.

 

Beth

How's my proselytizing? Call 1-800-FANATIC

Beth


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BethK wrote:

BethK wrote:

So, we've got a hodge-podge here of fundamentalist Christianity, Arian Heresey, Jehovah's Witness, Farrakhan/Nation of Islam!?!? Wow!

Something old (Arian Heresey) ;  Something new (Jehovah's Witness) (Well, relatively)  ; Something borrowed (Islam)

When we get something blue (are there blue men in the spaceship, a la Hindu Gods?), we'll be all set for a wedding.

 

 Funniest thing I ve read in months (piss my pants funny)..

Quote:
..trying to bring me "the good news". It was okay for a time, then got old. I eventually renounced the holy spirit, the "unforgivable sin", and pointed out in her bible that even Jesus says he cannot "save" me now. But, evidently, she has more such abilities than Jesus... She's something of a fundamentalist. Yet, at the same time, uses some JW beliefs, like Jesus is the Archangel Mighael (and doesn't even seem to care that it's a retread of the old Arian Heresy that's been around since the 4th century). I can deal with either one of those, or both together. The real kicker is that she's absolutely SURE that Jesus is in a spaceship and is coming back for her and all of the "faithful" in 2012! We all know about the 2012 nonsense and hysteria, mostly from New Age types .. I've run into the 2012 end-of-the-world stuff from New Agers, and some of their beliefs that a spaceship will come and beam them up just before we are destroyed.

 

   I am not sure what has happened to fundies, they have their own subculture within fundamentalism which I swear is nothing less than an 'unnatural blending' of apocalyptic traditions (..pretty interesting); I BLAME 'the internet'.


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I know we're suppossed to

I know we're suppossed to "Kill em' with Kindness"... But I'd just like to say that you people are all much nicer than I am... I would have suggested a good ole' fashioned Tea bagging about 30 seconds into that conversation...

and no, not the Mid-west flannel wearing, Bible thumping, Obama hating kind of tea bagging... I am reffering to the dragging my yam bag across the bridge of her nose kind of tea bagging...


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Apocalyptic soup

You're right. There is a sort of subculture that appears to be a mixture of fundamentalist Christianity and an assortment of cultish beliefs, some New Age stuff, some Von Daniken milarke, and some very common threads such as the ABSOLUTE sin is homosexuality that we must all fight against that they all seem to have the same WORDS to describe, while ignoring some teachings from the New Testament (they don't seem to know what they are, even if they're pointed out in a King James Bible to them) about not knowing the dates of the "end times" in advance. These words all say the same thing, and the referenced ones have them pointing at each other. It's all got to come from one common source - a book or a TV broadcast. They don't seem to know that Jesus never is recorded to have uttered one word regarding homosexuality... and only spoke 3 times about sexuality at all - but the gospels contain hundreds of references to the misuse of money or using religion to scam the religious sheeple out of money.

I can hardly wait until January 1, 2013, when the world obviously has not ended. Could they be following (drumroll) a false prophet? Or is that false profit. Laughing out loud Lots of money is being made in all of this. I don't think so. The next date will be 2021, since the Mayans might have been dyslexic or something. Nevermind that modern Mayans say that it's like December 31st on our calendar - when you get there, the world doesn't end, you just turn the page.

Then, there will be 2060, another date when the world is supposed to end as predicted by Sir Isaac Newton. He was a mystic as well as a scientist and mathematician. Fortunately, I seriously doubt I'll be alive to observe that hysteria.

You'd think at least one of these Christians could read their own scriptures - including the words of their own savior, but who CARES what he thinks! They know what they know, and there are books to sell and tithes to collect.

How's my proselytizing? Call 1-800-FANATIC

Beth


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BethK wrote: but the gospels

BethK wrote:
but the gospels contain hundreds of references to the misuse of money or using religion to scam the religious sheeple out of money. I can hardly wait until January 1, 2013, when the world obviously has not ended. Could they be following (drumroll) a false prophet? 

Apparently so :

Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world: John 4:1

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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Beyond Saving wrote:BethK

Beyond Saving wrote:

BethK wrote:

 Has anyone else run into this particular delusional notion? If so, who came up with it and when?

Welcome to the forum.

 

I know Louis Farrakhan has made similar claims about a spaceship. He is the leader of the "Nation of Islam". I'm not sure if he believes that Jesus or Muhammad or God is on it or not. So maybe her belief is a hybrid of Christianity and Farrakhan's beliefs? Who knows. Some people will believe any crazy story you can come up with. Sometimes I wonder if it is some sort of developmental disability, because you can fool pretty much any young child with any crazy story you can imagine, but most of us grow out of it when we reach 4 or 5 years.

 

  

it goes farther back than farrakhan.  both wallace fard and elijah muhammad said the same things.  in noi theology, allah is a literal black man, and even seems to be a sort of rotating position (one allah dies and another takes his place).  allah has been secretly building the "mother plane" (not sure where or for how long) and will use it to wreak armageddon and take the black muslims to space.  not sure where they'll be going.  black muslims don't believe in any spiritual dimension to the universe--no soul, no life after death, no resurrection--so i'm not sure why it's even necessary.  it's inconsistent because, similar to the jw's, noi leaders just make shit up as they go along.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
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I get so sick of people

I get so sick of people falsely accusing some atheists of the same bigotry theists project on us, merely because we criticize, ridicule and blaspheme their claims.

The simple test you can throw at them when they hurl these false accusations is to point out other's beliefs where they say, "Yea, that is stupid".

And that is fine as it should be FOR EVERYONE. How is it they can be rational when it comes the the absurd utterances of others, but can't aim that same logic at their own claims.

That is all we do here. If one were to claim that cars run on pixie dust, we may personally like the person making the claim, but any sane person should hate the claim and challenge the claim.

Monotheists today have no problem looking at the claims of deities of the Greeks and Egyptians of antiquity and would scoff at anyone today who would literally claim them to be true today. Yet they themselves believe in the same core idea, that a human like invisible magical super brain with no material or location, meddles in human affairs.

Yes, I will attack these claims, not out of hate of humanity, but out of hate of absurdity and demand for quality control of data. I can love those who hold beliefs I find to be absurd. But I am damned sure tired of the fans of these claims demanding taboo status. And above all that is the continuing inhumanity these clubs in their drive to be the alpha male of the planet, for nothing other than selfish desire to be in control of the planet, above all else, that utopia I hate the most.

Religion is nothing but a form of politics masked in comic book super heros with the deadly reality of narcissism. It seeks to make up mythological answers to the mundane behavior in reality that merely amounts to a drive for resources.

Until our species accepts that labels don't solve problems, humans do, we will be stuck in our old tribal evolution that is no longer an advantage in our increasingly small world.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Ktulu wrote; use of the f<>king wheel

      I think that the wheel was in the possession of the Aztecs,but it was used only for children's toys. I think that I read it in Jared Diamonds book "Gun, Germs, and Steel:the fate of Human Societies". But when I read your thread it made me think of that wacko who believed that Jesus was comming behind "Hale-Bopp comet" ,the Heaven's Gate cult,which was lead by some nut,who believed that he was related to Jesus, and some how 39 people commited suicide with rolls of quaters found in their pockets.  

Signature ? How ?


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Easy Button .. Get the info that points out these errors :

 

Quote:
I have a new neighbor who is trying to bring me "the good news". It was okay for a time, then got old. I eventually renounced the holy spirit, the "unforgivable sin", and pointed out in her bible that even Jesus says he cannot "save" me now.

     MOSTLY, I dont think YOU HAVE TO GO TO SUCH LENGTHS.  All you've got to do is get the info that points out these errors, just turn the tables on your buddy.  This might sound stupid.  All you need to do is ask you buddy to " .. read this", the Facts, and it  GETS RID OF THEM very effective every  time  Okay!  Having he/she examine 'your' literature. Easy.  They was dancing to, dancing to, dancin' .. to your tune, (when you call the tune)   You could point out to your buddy there are much much better things to do than to speculate on a subject that cannot be definitively interpreted. Although There is a lot of more beneficial things to think about, but when you're done YOU are DONE! Keep a few on hand. Works every time (fine adjustments not essential) 

 

Brian37 wrote:

"I get so sick of people falsely accusing some atheists of the same bigotry theists project on us" ..  ..  "any sane person should hate the claim and challenge the claim"

 

  Narrowing this to End--Time and / or the original topic..  Highlighting a person's personal  beliefs strictly with an eye to her more bizarre end time claims

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:: "Good fences make for good neighbors. > Notice the Date"


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Chaos need not Rule (CHAOS NEED NOT Rule) .. ..