Zeitgeist

rdklep8
atheistScience FreakSuperfan
rdklep8's picture
Posts: 155
Joined: 2009-11-10
User is offlineOffline
Zeitgeist

So my roommates came across a documentary called Zeitgeist.  After watching it, they are now leaning toward atheism.  I watched it myself, and was very impressed with the work that the Peter Joseph put into it.  I think it is very well done, and I think it lays down some good evidence-based information attempting to disspell all religions.  It holds your attention well throughout, and I'd suggest it for anyone who is skeptical of religion but unsure of where/how to obtain information on the subject.

 

http://www.zeitgeistthefilm.com/

 

You can watch it online.  It is a 3 part documentary, Part I focuses on religion.  The other two segments of the documentary are also interesting, even though it does not have anything to do with religion.

 

Has anyone else seen it?  What are your thoughts?


harleysportster
atheist
harleysportster's picture
Posts: 3260
Joined: 2010-10-17
User is offlineOffline
I have heard this

I have heard this go two different ways.

I have not seen the film yet, so I am not going to knock it until I FINALLY get down to watching it.

Some people have told me that it is a great wake-up call, others have told me it is conspiracy theory stuff with alot of inaccurate information about god belief.

Both of these ideas I have heard expressed by skeptics  and non-believers where I live.

(For some reason here in Memphis,it is really hard to get many people that are on the fence or anti-organized religion to say the word Atheist. I generally get comments like : "Well, I don't believe in god but I am like open to suggestions, man". or "Man, religion ain't nuthin' but control man  but I mean there might be something out there man". )

I DO know, that in one section of the city referred to as Mid-Town, where all of the artsy, eccentric type people frequent, the film is highly praised in alot of those circles.  I have heard it mentioned here and there, and have heard people say it exposes religion as a total fraud, which I would think would be a good thing.

But I have had others tell me that it is just conspiracy theory stuff.

I'll have to finally sit down and watch the thing. Because this film seems to keep popping up in discussions. I am curious.

 

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


rdklep8
atheistScience FreakSuperfan
rdklep8's picture
Posts: 155
Joined: 2009-11-10
User is offlineOffline
I think one of the downfalls

I think one of the downfalls of the film is that 3 different issues are tackled.  Relgion, 9/11, and the financial system.  Because there is so much information given to you in such a small amount of time, there are going to be some people who claim its just conspiracy theory garbage. 

 

There are going to be people who just say "Conspiracy Theory", and call it trash.  Regardless, I think it is worth watching and making your own decision.


harleysportster
atheist
harleysportster's picture
Posts: 3260
Joined: 2010-10-17
User is offlineOffline
rdklep8 wrote:  

rdklep8 wrote:

 

  Regardless, I think it is worth watching and making your own decision.

I agree. I try to never knock anything unless I have some knowledge about it or some experience firsthand.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


mellestad
Moderator
Posts: 2927
Joined: 2009-08-19
User is offlineOffline
Is it worth two hours of my

Is it worth two hours of my life?  What's the cliff notes version?

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


rdklep8
atheistScience FreakSuperfan
rdklep8's picture
Posts: 155
Joined: 2009-11-10
User is offlineOffline
mellestad wrote:Is it worth

mellestad wrote:

Is it worth two hours of my life?  What's the cliff notes version?

 

 

Each section is about 45 minutes.  So if you want to just watch the religion segment, it's less than an hour.  If you've got the time to sit down and watch it, I'd do so. 

 

One of the most interesting segments is toward the beginning, when the origin of Christianity, and other modern religions, are discussed.  The documentary shows that modern beliefs are really adaptations from pagan predecessors.

  As an atheist, there is nothing within the documentary that blew my mind.  I would assume the same for the majority of people here.  However, for skeptics and fence-sitters, I think this is a great tool to help them 'make the leap'


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
 mellestad wrote:Is it

 

mellestad wrote:
Is it worth two hours of my life? What's the cliff notes version?

 

Google video has the whole thing, so don't even think of paying for it. Also, you can skip the entire first half hour as all that it is is an animation designed to get you kind of hypnotized into accepting what it throws at you.

 

That being said, the real first part is pretty much covering the same territory as “The God Who Wasn't There”. Stuff is presented in a somewhat different order but nothing new had been added.

 

After that, there is a section on 9/11 denial. Pretty much standard conspiracy material there. The fact that there were 19 known terrorists on the planes not withstanding, it is all a plan to cause a war in Iraq so that shrub can finish what his father started (and walked away from a week later but that is not important) is not itself important.

 

The last part is about the international conspiracy of those who control the money supply wanting there to be a series of wars so that they can further concentrate all of the money in the world. This despite the fact that if one person really did have all the money in the world, it would be pretty useless because he would have to spend it on stuff to have any validity. Then he would not have it anymore and he would have to do some actual work to earn it back. Then the cycle would have to repeat.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


TGBaker
atheist
TGBaker's picture
Posts: 1367
Joined: 2011-02-06
User is offlineOffline
rdklep8 wrote:mellestad

rdklep8 wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Is it worth two hours of my life?  What's the cliff notes version?

 

 

Each section is about 45 minutes.  So if you want to just watch the religion segment, it's less than an hour.  If you've got the time to sit down and watch it, I'd do so. 

 

One of the most interesting segments is toward the beginning, when the origin of Christianity, and other modern religions, are discussed.  The documentary shows that modern beliefs are really adaptations from pagan predecessors.

  As an atheist, there is nothing within the documentary that blew my mind.  I would assume the same for the majority of people here.  However, for skeptics and fence-sitters, I think this is a great tool to help them 'make the leap'

It does a good comparison of Christianity with other mystery religions showing the dependency of Christianity on many of the other religions motifs.  Virgin births, resurrections etc.;  It tries a little too hard to present Christianity as an interpretation of the Zodiac. And it is salted with conspiracy theories, The federal reserve is owned by a few banking families to which the US Government is in debt, 9/11 never happened. It was fabricated by the US government. The banking families are making a one world government to be controlled by them though they already control most governments and corporations. There is a sequel to Zeitgeist by the way.

www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/

The goal is to revise our world society in accord with present day knowledge on all levels, not only creating awareness of social and technological possibilities many have been conditioned to think impossible or against "human nature", but also to provide a means to overcome those elements in society which perpetuate these outdated systems.

They are associated with the Venus Project.

http://www.thevenusproject.com/

"The Venus Project offers a comprehensive plan for social reclamation in which human beings, technology, and nature will be able to coexist in a long-term, sustainable state of dynamic equilibrium. Many of the ideas on this web site are being translated into reality NOW. Phase One of The Venus Project is the twenty-five acre design center in still pristine south-central Florida, where the future is currently taking shape. The actual buildings and conference center are supplemented by models, illustrations, blueprints, posters, books and video presentations. These are the first steps that have been completed to help one see, feel, and touch the future."

The research center that is shown as the Venus Project was up for sale a couple of  years  ago  for $300,000.  There were ten buildings counting the homes on the property. I was looking for a place before I moved to GA and found the property.  The real estate photos showed a place not as  clean as those shown on the website. Apparently they got some funding or something.

 

 

"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whip cream."--Frank Zappa

http://atheisticgod.blogspot.com/ Books on atheism


mellestad
Moderator
Posts: 2927
Joined: 2009-08-19
User is offlineOffline
Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

 

mellestad wrote:
Is it worth two hours of my life? What's the cliff notes version?

 

Google video has the whole thing, so don't even think of paying for it. Also, you can skip the entire first half hour as all that it is is an animation designed to get you kind of hypnotized into accepting what it throws at you.

 

That being said, the real first part is pretty much covering the same territory as “The God Who Wasn't There”. Stuff is presented in a somewhat different order but nothing new had been added.

 

After that, there is a section on 9/11 denial. Pretty much standard conspiracy material there. The fact that there were 19 known terrorists on the planes not withstanding, it is all a plan to cause a war in Iraq so that shrub can finish what his father started (and walked away from a week later but that is not important) is not itself important.

 

The last part is about the international conspiracy of those who control the money supply wanting there to be a series of wars so that they can further concentrate all of the money in the world. This despite the fact that if one person really did have all the money in the world, it would be pretty useless because he would have to spend it on stuff to have any validity. Then he would not have it anymore and he would have to do some actual work to earn it back. Then the cycle would have to repeat.

 

Thanks Gene.  I'll spend my time elsewhere then.  I actually stopped to ask after I watched a few minutes and it was just a speech, then some explosions and it flashed to an audio visualizer or something.

 

A shame it is packaged in conspiracy stuff.  If I were a conspiracy theorist I'd say it was a conspiracy to discredit the religion part by packaging it with kookiness.  Uh-oh.....

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


Kapkao
atheistSuperfanBronze Member
Kapkao's picture
Posts: 4121
Joined: 2010-01-12
User is offlineOffline
Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

 

mellestad wrote:
Is it worth two hours of my life? What's the cliff notes version?

 

Google video has the whole thing, so don't even think of paying for it. Also, you can skip the entire first half hour as all that it is is an animation designed to get you kind of hypnotized into accepting what it throws at you.

 

That being said, the real first part is pretty much covering the same territory as “The God Who Wasn't There”. Stuff is presented in a somewhat different order but nothing new had been added.

 

After that, there is a section on 9/11 denial. Pretty much standard conspiracy material there. The fact that there were 19 known terrorists on the planes not withstanding, it is all a plan to cause a war in Iraq so that shrub can finish what his father started (and walked away from a week later but that is not important) is not itself important.

 

The last part is about the international conspiracy of those who control the money supply wanting there to be a series of wars so that they can further concentrate all of the money in the world. This despite the fact that if one person really did have all the money in the world, it would be pretty useless because he would have to spend it on stuff to have any validity. Then he would not have it anymore and he would have to do some actual work to earn it back. Then the cycle would have to repeat.

What?! No mention on how Stanley Kubrick was an Illuminati member?

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


BobSpence
High Level DonorRational VIP!ScientistWebsite Admin
BobSpence's picture
Posts: 5809
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
I watched a lot of it on

I watched a lot of it on YouTube a while back.

The first part was ok, although unless I'm getting it confused with another movie, it made some strange statements about the alignments of stars.

The second part was pretty standard 9/11 conspiracy nonsense, and I couldn't stomach the third part  at all.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
Kapkao wrote:Answers in Gene

Kapkao wrote:

=

What?! No mention on how Stanley Kubrick was an Illuminati member?

 

I have no data on that but Matt Groening is verifiered.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


TGBaker
atheist
TGBaker's picture
Posts: 1367
Joined: 2011-02-06
User is offlineOffline
BobSpence1 wrote:I watched a

BobSpence1 wrote:

I watched a lot of it on YouTube a while back.

The first part was ok, although unless I'm getting it confused with another movie, it made some strange statements about the alignments of stars.

The second part was pretty standard 9/11 conspiracy nonsense, and I couldn't stomach the third part  at all.

 

You got it right. The first section did a fair job showing parallels to other myths of that period but then it went off the deep end to try and demonstrate that the Christian Myth was based on the Zodiac. In the end it does a disservice to those who would want to legitimately show the mythic and legendary character of the Christian story. The rest is just conspiracy stuff  as is its sequel.

"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whip cream."--Frank Zappa

http://atheisticgod.blogspot.com/ Books on atheism


Taz523
Posts: 2
Joined: 2011-02-21
User is offlineOffline
It is a very accessible

It is a very accessible movie for general audiences, it depends on their mindset, though. I showed to a couple people who started thinking with a more open mind. I also heard of people running from the room saying prayers for the person showing it.... Religulous is also a good one, although I think it may offend those who are not ready to accept the possibility of a Virgin Mary who was not Jesus' mother.


butterbattle
ModeratorSuperfan
butterbattle's picture
Posts: 3704
Joined: 2008-09-12
User is offlineOffline
Is it worth watching? I

Is it worth watching? I would say....not really. I watched the first part and about half of the second before I stopped.

Part one is correct in principle, even if they didn't get very many specific facts correct. Christianity was inspired by many earlier religions and ideas. I suspect their research is very sloppy.

Part two is your average 9/11 conspiracy crap. Part three should be garbage too, from what I've heard.

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


funknotik
atheist
funknotik's picture
Posts: 157
Joined: 2007-12-10
User is offlineOffline
I thought the religion part

I thought the religion part was pretty spot on. Here's just the religion part which is worth watching save for a few inaccuracies regarding the virginity of isis. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjGkRFFBd0A&feature=related

I don't agree with the 9/11 stuff and I can't remember the last part which means it must not have been that good. I have seen the second and third one and I thought they where better since they focused on reasonable things like resource based economics similar to Parecon, and also using technology to solve some energy problems etc. It really is unfortunate that the creator chose to lump in the 9/11 stuff in with the religion part which I always felt was a perfect intro to the history of religion. I hear the creator has since distanced himself from the whole 911 inside job thing and started focusing more on the futuristic utopia stuff.

 


ApostateAbe
ApostateAbe's picture
Posts: 64
Joined: 2011-04-04
User is offlineOffline
funknotik wrote:I thought

funknotik wrote:

I thought the religion part was pretty spot on. Here's just the religion part which is worth watching save for a few inaccuracies regarding the virginity of isis. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjGkRFFBd0A&feature=related

I don't agree with the 9/11 stuff and I can't remember the last part which means it must not have been that good. I have seen the second and third one and I thought they where better since they focused on reasonable things like resource based economics similar to Parecon, and also using technology to solve some energy problems etc. It really is unfortunate that the creator chose to lump in the 9/11 stuff in with the religion part which I always felt was a perfect intro to the history of religion. I hear the creator has since distanced himself from the whole 911 inside job thing and started focusing more on the futuristic utopia stuff.

On 0:52 of that video, the narrator makes the following claims about Horus:

• He was born on December 25 of a virgin Isis Mary
• His birth was accompanied by a star in the East
• Three kings came to adorn the new-born savior
• At the age of 12 he became a prodigal child teacher
• At the age of 30 he was baptized by a figure known as Anup and thus began his ministry
• Horus had twelve disciples that he traveled about with performing miracles, healing the sick and walking on water
• Horus was known by many gestural names such as The Truth, The Light, God’s Annointed Son, The Good Shepherd, The Lamb of God, and many others
• After being betrayed by Typhon, Horus was crucified,
• buried for three days, and thus, resurrected.

So, here is the challenge: find the citations to the archaeological evidence to these claims.  Not just people who repeat the claims.  Find detailed descriptions or translations of the ancient evidence, and we will see if the above claims are the best explanations for them.

Such claims go back to the late 19th century, when atheism started to get a good foothold, and there were authors willing to make up extraordinary claims about religion in order to cater to such an audience.  Such an author is Kersey Graves, who wrote The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors, and he included Horus as among the god-men sharing the same list of features.  He didn't cite his sources, and that is where the trail ends.  But, further authors accepted those claims, including DM Murdock (Acharya S), and Acharya S is the primary source of the claims for this part of Zeitgeist.

Lesson: sometimes, we need to be skeptical even of people who promote skepticism.


harleysportster
atheist
harleysportster's picture
Posts: 3260
Joined: 2010-10-17
User is offlineOffline
ApostateAbe wrote:So, here

ApostateAbe wrote:

So, here is the challenge: find the citations to the archaeological evidence to these claims.  Not just people who repeat the claims.  Find detailed descriptions or translations of the ancient evidence, and we will see if the above claims are the best explanations for them.

Such claims go back to the late 19th century, when atheism started to get a good foothold, and there were authors willing to make up extraordinary claims about religion in order to cater to such an audience.  Such an author is Kersey Graves, who wrote The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors, and he included Horus as among the god-men sharing the same list of features.  He didn't cite his sources, and that is where the trail ends.  But, further authors accepted those claims, including DM Murdock (Acharya S), and Acharya S is the primary source of the claims for this part of Zeitgeist.

Lesson: sometimes, we need to be skeptical even of people who promote skepticism.

Some of the information posted above , about the legend of Horus, does not seem to match the information about Ancient Egyptian Mythology that I studied in school. I agree with you, that we should be in search of the truth and not just theories to back up our opinions.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno