Not even a start

Beyond Saving
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Not even a start

 I know I sound like a broken record but the US is facing a very important problem and our "leaders" are not even addressing it. Some time this year, our debt will be larger than our entire GDP. We will be adding somewhere between 1.5 and 2 TRILLION dollars to our debt this year. And what "cuts" are being proposed? The biggest cuts proposed so far cut 1 trillion OVER TEN FUCKING YEARS. It doesn't take an economist to realize that cutting one trillion over ten years doesn't matter a hill of beans when your annual deficit is well over a trillion dollars. If it wasn't so serious it would be comical. 

 

Obama's budget http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/budget2012.pdf seems pretty realistic for 2010 and 2011, but beyond that it is assuming uninterrupted economic growth.

 

Even IF that growth materializes - which I am extremely skeptical of

 

and the tax increases raise the amount of money advertised - they never do

 

and government programs don't cost more than they predict- they always do

 

and we can continue to borrow money at low interest rates- I wouldn't loan them money

 

and the government doesn't create any new programs between now and 2020 - anyone care to take a bet on that? 

 

If ALL of that happens we will be running an annual deficit of over 1 trillion dollars in 2020, $863 billion of which will be interest.  We will be $26 TRILLION dollars in debt. But don't worry, we "saved" 1.5 trillion. 

 

It is a fucking joke and an embarrassment. The snake oil salesmen that we have in office on both sides of the aisle need to be thrown out on their collective asses. Americans really ought to be outraged that our representatives are sticking their heads in the sand and ignoring the real problems approaching our country. We enjoy the highest standard of living in the world. That won't last if our government continues down its current track. They are destroying the value of our dollar and it will eventually destroy our economy if we do nothing.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


EXC
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Government has become

Government has become nothing more than a tool for 'special interests' to have their live style and businesses to be subsidized by rest of society. The national debt and the budget crises in state and local governments is just the result of this fact. Everyone has tons of rights, no one has any responsibilities.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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Thank you for the link cj,

Thank you for the link cj, the living wage is actually lower than I thought!

Living wage where I live is about 8.65 (minimum wage where I live is 7.25), I make 7.50.



In my opinion people should have less children or only have them when you can afford them, you can see how drastically expensive they are. (Where I live, one child forces you to more than double the living wage, whereas two adults is a 50% increase in living wage, 17.31 vs 13.63). Actually, two adults living together at minimum wage puts them above the living wage by about 10%, it's the kids that fuck them over. 



I personally don't understand why people desire children, but meh, that's just me. 



What I'm seeing here is that Americans have a different standard of what a 'living wage' is, to most Americans, they desire a 'keeping up with the Jonses" wage, rather than one that will allow them to live comfortably within thier means. 

 

 

 


EXC
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lalib wrote:In my opinion

lalib wrote:

In my opinion people should have less children or only have them when you can afford them, you can see how drastically expensive they are. (Where I live, one child forces you to more than double the living wage, whereas two adults is a 50% increase in living wage, 17.31 vs 13.63). Actually, two adults living together at minimum wage puts them above the living wage by about 10%, it's the kids that fuck them over. 

 



I personally don't understand why people desire children, but meh, that's just me. 

 

 

Exactly. I don't get this tradition of people that desire to have a lot of kids expecting the rest of society to subsidize their life choices. Maybe this made sense in the days before birth control and legal abortion. People have no excuse for having kids then saying they can't pay for them.

These people are no different than a banks asking for bailouts or corporations polluting the land then going bankrupt. Until rational people step up and decide no more subsidizing anyone on the left or right, we will continually have huge deficits.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


100percentAtheist
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EXC wrote:lalib wrote:In my

EXC wrote:

lalib wrote:

In my opinion people should have less children or only have them when you can afford them, you can see how drastically expensive they are. (Where I live, one child forces you to more than double the living wage, whereas two adults is a 50% increase in living wage, 17.31 vs 13.63). Actually, two adults living together at minimum wage puts them above the living wage by about 10%, it's the kids that fuck them over. 

 



I personally don't understand why people desire children, but meh, that's just me. 

 

 

Exactly. I don't get this tradition of people that desire to have a lot of kids expecting the rest of society to subsidize their life choices. Maybe this made sense in the days before birth control and legal abortion. People have no excuse for having kids then saying they can't pay for them.

These people are no different than a banks asking for bailouts or corporations polluting the land then going bankrupt. Until rational people step up and decide no more subsidizing anyone on the left or right, we will continually have huge deficits.

 

First, thank you cj for a great link.  With two kids, it turns out we are living just above the living wage, that's bad, but now I kind of understand why it is still so uneasy to pay all the bills.

 

After thinking about natural selection, I can see why theists typically have more kids than atheists.

1)  There are more higher-educated people among atheists.  So, atheists are better educated.

2)  The odds of survival of a better educated person are higher. 

3)  Theists are lower educated and the odds of their survival are lower.

4)  In order to pass their genes to next generations and increase the odds of survival, theists need to have more kids than atheists. 

5)  The population of atheists is growing despite they have fewer kids.

6)  The natural selection favors the species of atheists.

7)  Homo Theos is evolving in Homo Atheos.  Checkmate theists.  

 

 


Brian37
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lalib wrote:Thank you for

lalib wrote:

Thank you for the link cj, the living wage is actually lower than I thought!

Living wage where I live is about 8.65 (minimum wage where I live is 7.25), I make 7.50.



In my opinion people should have less children or only have them when you can afford them, you can see how drastically expensive they are. (Where I live, one child forces you to more than double the living wage, whereas two adults is a 50% increase in living wage, 17.31 vs 13.63). Actually, two adults living together at minimum wage puts them above the living wage by about 10%, it's the kids that fuck them over. 

 



I personally don't understand why people desire children, but meh, that's just me. 

 



What I'm seeing here is that Americans have a different standard of what a 'living wage' is, to most Americans, they desire a 'keeping up with the Jonses" wage, rather than one that will allow them to live comfortably within thier means. 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


Brian37
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lalib wrote:Thank you for

lalib wrote:

Thank you for the link cj, the living wage is actually lower than I thought!

Living wage where I live is about 8.65 (minimum wage where I live is 7.25), I make 7.50.



In my opinion people should have less children or only have them when you can afford them, you can see how drastically expensive they are. (Where I live, one child forces you to more than double the living wage, whereas two adults is a 50% increase in living wage, 17.31 vs 13.63). Actually, two adults living together at minimum wage puts them above the living wage by about 10%, it's the kids that fuck them over. 

 



I personally don't understand why people desire children, but meh, that's just me. 

 



What I'm seeing here is that Americans have a different standard of what a 'living wage' is, to most Americans, they desire a 'keeping up with the Jonses" wage, rather than one that will allow them to live comfortably within thier means. 

 

 

 

I agree that you should not have kids if you cannot afford them. Being in the poor class myself, I don't even date, not just that I don't want them, even if I had the money, but one mistake is an 18 year anchor arround my neck.

Having said that, we also cannot lose our compassion for others. I don't think we should make things worse for the poor by saying "fuck you" all the time, and especially "fuck the kid, he's yours, not mine" when the kid had no say as to the class they were born in.

I think that ANYONE making an honest  living who is not a criminal and not lazy, should have a minimum of being able to pay the bills and stay home with their kids.

Better education from an early age. Wages that allow parents to be home with their kids. And economic education to the adults and kids from an early age.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


Beyond Saving
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Brian37 wrote:I agree that

Brian37 wrote:

I agree that you should not have kids if you cannot afford them. Being in the poor class myself, I don't even date, not just that I don't want them, even if I had the money, but one mistake is an 18 year anchor arround my neck.

Having said that, we also cannot lose our compassion for others. I don't think we should make things worse for the poor by saying "fuck you" all the time, and especially "fuck the kid, he's yours, not mine" when the kid had no say as to the class they were born in.

I think that ANYONE making an honest  living who is not a criminal and not lazy, should have a minimum of being able to pay the bills and stay home with their kids.

Better education from an early age. Wages that allow parents to be home with their kids. And economic education to the adults and kids from an early age.

 

You shouldn't discriminate against the lazy. Speaking as one of the lazy, I would start a Lazy Persons of America group but alas, I am too lazy. 

 

When you say they should make a minimum of paying the bills and stay home with the kids I am assuming/hoping you mean that with a married couple one would be able to stay home and the other provide for the family right? Should someone with kids get paid more for the same job than someone without simply because they have more dependents? Should we just pay everyone 50k so they can afford a spouse, 2.5 kids and a dog?

 

You think employers should pay higher wages. What I'm trying to figure out is how much higher. If I was going to go out and hire someone, how should I go about determining a wage to offer? Suppose I have a contract for 250k and I need 3 full time employees to get the job done on time. I have 2 employees whom I already pay 120k in wages, benefits and expenses. So I have 130k to work with and I can expect 15k in expenses and say 5k training costs leaving 110k for the new employee and profit. How much should I pay?

 

Right now I would look at the job market and what other people are offering, factor in for the amount of experience I want filling the position and make an offer that is low but not insulting based on their experience and past wages. I would expect the interviewee to make a counter-offer that will hopefully be in my budget, although many just say yes. (Tip: Never ever accept the first job offer, ask for a little more, the first offer is always low) If I am having trouble attracting interest in the position I might offer more if I can budget it. In the above situation, since I have two skilled employees and a favorable economy I would try to hire a single inexperienced 20 something for around 25k with an initial offer around 22k. Leaving me a healthy profit of 85k-88k. Am I greedy?

 

Do you think the link CJ provided is a reasonable estimation of a "livable wage" or do you think it should be higher?

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X