It's in my nature...

Ch3sty1775
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It's in my nature...

 Hopefully, I can fluently describe what I perceive to be "In My Nature." Hopefully, I can get a response that might help me determine what I believe, what I am, and what I could do with my beliefs. I've lived my life with a set foundation of beliefs that have been constant. I've been through a multitude of different religious experiences and each one served it's purpose for the time being, but now I find that I'm a bit lost in what I should believe in. My philosophies are crumbling and each passing day I don't grow more jaded, I grow more confused. The more I seem to know about something, the less I seem to understand it. So I want to pose the question: Where can I find the answer? 

 

First, I will briefly describe my religious, philosophical, and theological history using a list:

  1. I was raised by Christians who wanted me to find my own religion. They believed I should have a strong philosophical foundation in order to harbor good morals, values, self concepts, and other good things that will help me find happiness. 
  2. As a result, I went through different phases of philosophies and religions. Including, but not limited to Apostolic Pentecostalism, Catholicism, and Buddhism. Eventually, atheism. As far as my philosophical standpoint, I have no clue. 
  3. My religious and philosophical beliefs, like anyone, developed through the experiences I've had. Each seemed to play an important and strong role in specific times during my life. They helped me through different situations. 
  4. Now, I hold few philosophical values.

 

Now that I've described my history, let me describe some of the values I hold in a very simplistic way. These include, but are DEFINITELY NOT LIMITED TO:
 

  • Family: I believe family is undeniably essential. You can't choose who gives birth to you and you're biologically related to, but you can choose your family. Family is love, respect, loyalty, and honesty. Like life, family can't always be fair or kind. But it's what you have. Whether one other person is your family or you are a family of mankind is irrelevant. It's family. 
  • Friends: A true friend is nothing less than family. They are one in the same. 
  • Other people/Strangers: I will admit to holding a prejudice against a few select group of people, like everyone. However, if I sweep away all of the cloudy negative thoughts I have toward different groups, I will tell you that everyone is the same. We are all born to live a tough life and we will always die when we need to. I respect everyone I meet, I am kind to everyone I meet, and I am generous and caring towards everyone I meet, until they give me a reason not to be. Plato once said "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." I look for good base qualities: loyalty, respect, kindness, generosity, intelligence, honesty, humor, cleverness, thoughtfulness, happiness. Typically, if someone lacks in a few areas, as long as they have other good qualities that outweigh the bad. I don't judge people based on their bad qualities because I've made enough mistakes of my own to be a hypocrite if I ever said anything about what someone else does. 
  • Organized Religion: Religion served it's purpose during the early times of humanity when we still had government systems largely based on religion. Those religions provided a set of laws that the people had to obey in order to live a... "healthy" lifestyle (it's the only word I can think of). Today, ever since the separation between Church and State, we no longer need religion because we are still surviving with sets of laws that, if obeyed, will provide us with the opportunity of living a healthy life (arguably). But, it still serves its purpose for those who are fearful of what might happen after death. It seems that's it's only use - answering the enduring question: "What will happen when I die?" I also think that some of the accusations religions make toward humanity and it's development are far-fetched, such as the fact that the earth is 5000 years old... it's 4.6 billion years old, behaviorally modern humans are 50,000 years old...
  • Spirituality (as opposed to religion): Spirituality also serves it's purpose. It answers the question I previously stated. I, personally, cannot say that I believe nor disbelieve in a spiritual plane. I don't really know if I believe in God or not. Honestly? It's all interesting. What would God be? Is it a white bearded man in the clouds? Is it an unseen force that determines the fate of everything in the universe? Is IT, in fact, an IT? Maybe it's a she? Maybe it's a dog? Maybe it's a grain of sand? Maybe it's the force of gravity said to aid in the creation of the universe? I don't know. If I was going to believe in a God, I would say that the God I believe in cannot be described in neither books, nor faith, nor science. I don't know how to describe him. I suppose God is an intangible force. If I wanted to try and put words to it, I would say that God is the ridiculous question you get to every answer: Why? Why this? Why that? Why? Why? Why?; God is the gravitational force that let's our Earth travel around the sun at 1700 km/hr; God is that little human instinct that tells you when something is a bad idea; God is you, and God is me. But why should we worship God, when God is all around us and God is everything? I sound like a Christian, but I can tell you that everything I believe to be God doesn't mean more to me than the shit I took this morning. 
  • Humor: Always laugh. There is nothing in this world you should not joke about. Absolutely nothing. 

I suppose I will stop there, since I hit every major point in a person's life, or at least every major point that's relevant to this topic. In my nature, I suppose I believe in God. I suppose I can't deny that there is something more in the universe than just this life, then death and eternal blackness. I don't value life, I don't value God, I don't value religion, I don't value people. Well... I value my family and friends, myself, and my values and beliefs and morals. But even I can't deny the potency of human life. I can't even deny the fact that there is that extra something, that unknown X that nobody can look past. Existentialists believe "life is meaningless, ultimately." Nihilists believe "we can never known what is true, so nothing is true." What I wonder is, how are they to tell? Why should they be given the authority to determine what life is and isn't? They can only tell us what life is and isn't for themselves. That's not what life is for me, and that certainly isn't what life is for a Christian. 


Surprisingly, I don't think I have any philosophy. I value the people I love and myself. And where I have searched, and searched, and searched... I found nothing of any relevance to the greater picture of life. Everyone who calls themselves one thing - an atheist, a Buddhist, somebody who worships cauliflower - is missing the forest for the trees. Why should one person bind themselves to once principle that will mean nothing when they die? Does it mean a happier life when you're alive? Not necessarily; in fact, not at all. The only  The only thing I can say I do believe in is science. I don't think that there is a single thing in this world that we cannot explain with science - it's just a matter of when and how advanced our science is as that point. If we are able to accelerate a proton to 99% of the speed of light, something that scientists 100 years ago could never even dream possible, using the large hadron collider... what else are we capable of? 

Now, I know it's ridiculous to even fathom the idea of asking someone else "Where do I find the answer?" In this situation, I'm the only one that can find the answer. None of you can get into my head and tell me what's best, but I suppose I should change my question ... What do you all think? What's your opinion on all of this? Am I full of shit? Or do I have something going? 
 

 

Tell 'em that God's gunna cut you down.


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Hello and welcome. That was

Hello and welcome. That was quite an introduction.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
Where can I find the answer?  

Could you formulate the question a little more succinctly ?


Ch3sty1775
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 I guess there's no real

 I guess there's no real way of forming the question. I rephrased the question at the end of the intro. Do you think I have something interesting to think about? or am I just going crazy? 

Tell 'em that God's gunna cut you down.


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Ch3sty1775 wrote: I guess

Ch3sty1775 wrote:

 I guess there's no real way of forming the question. I rephrased the question at the end of the intro. Do you think I have something interesting to think about? or am I just going crazy? 

I noticed in your long thread you basically asked us if it was crazy to ask other people where to find the answer. NO, but what you should not do for ANYONE, not even us, is blindly swallow what someone utters. When something is universal, it can be independently verified and can withstand testing. It is why we have computers and doctors and cell phones.

If anyone tries to sell you ANYTHING, even outside religion, and they refuse to let you look under the hood and say "trust me", it is a good indicator of being a scam.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Ch3sty1775

Ch3sty1775 wrote:

 Hopefully, I can fluently describe what I perceive to be "In My Nature." Hopefully, I can get a response that might help me determine what I believe, what I am, and what I could do with my beliefs. I've lived my life with a set foundation of beliefs that have been constant. I've been through a multitude of different religious experiences and each one served it's purpose for the time being, but now I find that I'm a bit lost in what I should believe in. My philosophies are crumbling and each passing day I don't grow more jaded, I grow more confused. The more I seem to know about something, the less I seem to understand it. So I want to pose the question: Where can I find the answer? 

 

Welcome aboard by the way. I didn't say that in my previous responses to you.

Like you, I  used to often referr to my core beliefs and values as "in my nature" as well. But not any longer.

But, where do you think that this nature is coming from ?

If you and I had been born in say, Japan, India, or Iran, do you think we would have the same core beliefs ?

Don't you think that our perspectives and ideas about the world are formed by our environments that we are raised in ?

For instance, if your anything like me, when you were a kid and issued all of the do's and don't rules by your parents, did you not reject some that did not make sense and accept others that did ? Didn't your experiences and the things that you have encountered throughout your life formulate alot of your core values and beliefs ? What are your thoughts about your nature and where do you think it ultimately comes from ?

 

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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Quote:I've lived my life

Quote:
I've lived my life with a set foundation of beliefs that have been constant

No, that is a superficial way of thinking.

The reality is that our species evolved to seek out patterns, what we did not evolve to do is TEST those patterns to insure quality of data.

What you call "constant" is merely what you think is a working pattern. Until you question it and test it you don't really know, other than "it seems to work for me".

Things that are universal are patterns that have been tested and can be independently verified outside our own personal bias.

Using a placebo to get to the point of reproduction might provide the affect of "safety in numbers" because of our social nature, a group will survive better surrounding itself with like minded people, but that does not mean what the group believes collectively is true.

Otherwise Allah is real because it has the most members and the belief is popular. That is their "constant" that seems to work for them, and because of that Muslims DO create future offspring. But that doesn't make Allah real by default. The reality is they have no way of dragging this alleged Allah into a lab to be examined. Much less any label of any religion proving that a thought can arise without a material process, much less a non-material magical super brain with super powers.

Ockham's razor tackles myth quite nicely and very quickly.

Even car mechanics use Ockham's razor without realizing it.

They are taught to start with the simple patterns first when a car wont start. What they don't do is dismantle the engine first as a default position. They check the battery, then the battery cable, then the starter and or the ignition. They start with trying to rule out the simplest problems first then work up to a more complex problem. So the attitude is to seek out a solution to a problem that has the least baggage.

So apply this attitude to the two following assertions and ask yourself which seems to be the least complicated solution?

1. A magical God exists, which begs the question if this god is complex then something even more complex had to create that complex god, which causes the problem of infinite regress.

OR.

2. Humans are capable of believing false things.

Out of those to proposed solutions to the question, which do you think is the most reasonable and least complicated?

The only thing "constant" in human existence is that humans constantly, more often than not, stick a false answer into a gap. That is an example of our evolution not seeking perfection, but the flaw in reality that since life and the universe is not perfect, bad answers to life will pop up.

 

 

 

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Ch3sty1775 wrote: I guess

Ch3sty1775 wrote:

 I guess there's no real way of forming the question. I rephrased the question at the end of the intro. Do you think I have something interesting to think about? or am I just going crazy? 

Crazy ? You just have an inquisitive mind. That's pretty much the opposite of crazy.

Maybe your "nature" is to become a scientist, since that's what you still believe in.


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Anonymouse wrote:Ch3sty1775

Anonymouse wrote:

Ch3sty1775 wrote:

 I guess there's no real way of forming the question. I rephrased the question at the end of the intro. Do you think I have something interesting to think about? or am I just going crazy? 

Crazy ? You just have an inquisitive mind. That's pretty much the opposite of crazy.

Maybe your "nature" is to become a scientist, since that's what you still believe in.

I wouldn't call it "nature". I would call it a "desire" which is natural. We all have different desires. THAT is the only thing that I would call "nature". Life is a range, not an absolute.

Crazy to me is buying a used car simply because the salesman says, "It's cherry red and a chick magnet", which could sucker you into buying a lemon because you didn't have it independently check out by a mechanic before you bought it.

But even "crazy" is part of our evolution because evolution isn't about perfection. Evolution produces nuts just like it produces rational people.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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 welcome to the forum... to

 welcome to the forum... to be continued


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Ch3sty1775,Most of what you

Ch3sty1775,

Most of what you say I can fully agree with.

But both here and in your other threads you have displayed a curious attitude to the word 'atheist', as though it is a full position, point of view, philosophy, whatever, somehow on a par with an actual belief system.

It is simply one common aspect of a range of actual positions, such as scepticism, communism, naturalism, Randian 'objectivism' (yuk!), which can cover quite a range of sometimes incompatible world-views.

At first I thought it might be because you were basically pushing some kind of Theistic view-point, but I now accept that you do not seem to be doing that, that you are actually an Atheist, genuinely curious about reality, possibly a little confused about some aspects at this stage.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


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I have to be honest.... When

I have to be honest.... When someone named "Ch3sty" starts a thread titled "It's in my Nature"... I was hoping for something different...

 

Regardless, welcome to the forum Smiling


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Ch3sty1775 wrote:In my

Again, welcome to the forum.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
In my nature, I suppose I believe in God.

Ah, but why? Why do you believe in God?

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
I suppose I can't deny that there is something more in the universe than just this life, then death and eternal blackness.

Why can't you deny it?

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
Existentialists believe "life is meaningless, ultimately." Nihilists believe "we can never known what is true, so nothing is true." What I wonder is, how are they to tell? Why should they be given the authority to determine what life is and isn't?

They don't have any "authority." They're making claims about reality.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
They can only tell us what life is and isn't for themselves. That's not what life is for me, and that certainly isn't what life is for a Christian.

No, they are making truth claims, not subjective claims about their feelings. Truth applies to everyone by definition. Asserting that it isn't how you "feel" doesn't change reality.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
Everyone who calls themselves one thing - an atheist, a Buddhist, somebody who worships cauliflower - is missing the forest for the trees. Why should one person bind themselves to once principle that will mean nothing when they die?

If they believe in an afterlife, then it does mean something when they die.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
Now, I know it's ridiculous to even fathom the idea of asking someone else "Where do I find the answer?" In this situation, I'm the only one that can find the answer.

The answer to "what?" You don't understand what it is that you're asking yet, so of course you're not going to get an answer.

 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Ch3sty

Rich Woods wrote:

I have to be honest.... When someone named "Ch3sty" starts a thread titled "It's in my Nature"... I was hoping for something different...

I need to up my game, Rich. I never even noticed his (her?) name was Chesty lol

OP:

An inquisitive nature is groovy and all, the problem comes in that most people want answers which make them feel all warm and fuzzy. Problem with reality is that... well... it's just reality. It doesn't exist to make us feel squishy and happy.

So on your journey I would be weary of answers which make fuzzy promises about happiness and joy. Those answers are probably making promises which involve *denying* reality, not embracing it.


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IfNihilists believe "we can

If

Nihilists believe "we can never known what is true, so nothing is true."

then they are being illogical and silly.

If someone believes that not being able to know something with 100% certainty is equivalent to not being able to know anything of that thing, then they are also being simplistic and wrong.

 

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


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Ch3sty1775

Ch3sty1775 wrote:

 Hopefully, I can fluently describe what I perceive to be "In My Nature."

Ahh...the nature vs nurture debate.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
Hopefully, I can get a response that might help me determine what I believe, what I am, and what I could do with my beliefs.

Look up "Self Actualization", and get back to us in a bit.

That'll prevent us from wasting our time speculating and trying to interpret 'you'.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
I've lived my life with a set foundation of beliefs that have been constant.

Since they were indoctrinated, or presented to you.

Sure.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
 My philosophies are crumbling and each passing day I don't grow more jaded, I grow more confused. The more I seem to know about something, the less I seem to understand it.

Here's some advice:

"The simplest way to make one richer, is to want for less...."

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
So I want to pose the question: Where can I find the answer? 

Without a qualifier, your statement is completely rhetorical.

 

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
My religious and philosophical beliefs, like anyone, developed through the experiences I've had. Each seemed to play an important and strong role in specific times during my life. They helped me through different situations. 

So you were reliant on 'aid' from those things.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
  Family: I believe family is undeniably essential.

That's rhetorical and non sequitur as well.

Essential to what?

You're lacking a 'qualifier' to 'essential'.

Look up Maslow's " Hierarchy Of Needs " before you characterize 'essentials'.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
  Friends: A true friend is nothing less than family. They are one in the same. 

You're being ambiguous with your terms.

That's rhetoric.

You are not speaking in accurate terms, instead, attempting to create your own 'ideology'.

A 'friend' is not the same as the strictest definition of 'family'.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
 

  • Other people/Strangers: I will admit to holding a prejudice against a few select group of people, like everyone. However, if I sweep away all of the cloudy negative thoughts I have toward different groups, I will tell you that everyone is the same. We are all born to live a tough life and we will always die when we need to. I respect everyone I meet, I am kind to everyone I meet, and I am generous and caring towards everyone I meet, until they give me a reason not to be. Plato once said "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." I look for good base qualities: loyalty, respect, kindness, generosity, intelligence, honesty, humor, cleverness, thoughtfulness, happiness. Typically, if someone lacks in a few areas, as long as they have other good qualities that outweigh the bad. I don't judge people based on their bad qualities because I've made enough mistakes of my own to be a hypocrite if I ever said anything about what someone else does. 
  • Organized Religion: Religion served it's purpose during the early times of humanity when we still had government systems largely based on religion. Those religions provided a set of laws that the people had to obey in order to live a... "healthy" lifestyle (it's the only word I can think of). Today, ever since the separation between Church and State, we no longer need religion because we are still surviving with sets of laws that, if obeyed, will provide us with the opportunity of living a healthy life (arguably). But, it still serves its purpose for those who are fearful of what might happen after death. It seems that's it's only use - answering the enduring question: "What will happen when I die?" I also think that some of the accusations religions make toward humanity and it's development are far-fetched, such as the fact that the earth is 5000 years old... it's 4.6 billion years old, behaviorally modern humans are 50,000 years old...
  • Spirituality (as opposed to religion): Spirituality also serves it's purpose. It answers the question I previously stated. I, personally, cannot say that I believe nor disbelieve in a spiritual plane. I don't really know if I believe in God or not. Honestly? It's all interesting. What would God be? Is it a white bearded man in the clouds? Is it an unseen force that determines the fate of everything in the universe? Is IT, in fact, an IT? Maybe it's a she? Maybe it's a dog? Maybe it's a grain of sand? Maybe it's the force of gravity said to aid in the creation of the universe? I don't know. If I was going to believe in a God, I would say that the God I believe in cannot be described in neither books, nor faith, nor science. I don't know how to describe him. I suppose God is an intangible force. If I wanted to try and put words to it, I would say that God is the ridiculous question you get to every answer: Why? Why this? Why that? Why? Why? Why?; God is the gravitational force that let's our Earth travel around the sun at 1700 km/hr; God is that little human instinct that tells you when something is a bad idea; God is you, and God is me. But why should we worship God, when God is all around us and God is everything? I sound like a Christian, but I can tell you that everything I believe to be God doesn't mean more to me than the shit I took this morning. 
  • Humor: Always laugh. There is nothing in this world you should not joke about. Absolutely nothing. 

See my previous answer.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
  In my nature, I suppose I believe in God.

Or nurture...

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
 I suppose I can't deny that there is something more in the universe than just this life, then death and eternal blackness.

That would indicate that those naked assertions are actual fact.

When they're not.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
 I don't value life

That's an emotional dysfunction.

You sound clinically depressed.

Go see a therapist.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
 I don't value God, I don't value religion

That's not uncommon.

There are millions of atheists, agnostics, agnostic theists, deists, naturalists, etc...

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
I don't value people.

This is an anomaly.

Which is why you need therapy.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
  I can't even deny the fact that there is that extra something, that unknown X that nobody can look past.

That's completely non sequitur as well.

Sounds like you've developed an ideology somehow, that you're unable to reconcile.

Considering all your previous indoctrinations, it's not difficult to see where their origins could lie.

Some therapists have specialized training for this kind of thing.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
 Existentialists believe "life is meaningless, ultimately."

That's a moronic ideology based out of a logical fallacy, by adding a superfluous adjective to a state of being.

Life is a dicotomy.

One is either alive, or they're not.

One is either 'pregnant', or not.

One is 'ill', or not.

One doesn't say that 'being ill' is meaningful or meaningless.

Saying life is 'meaningless', is a determination of something apart from the dichotomy between being in one state or the other.

A different topic.

The topic of 'meaningless' life indicates an emotional distress.

That's a psychological issue.

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
 Nihilists believe "we can never known what is true, so nothing is true." What I wonder is, how are they to tell?

Well, naturally.

It's a paradox ideology.

A mindfcuk, for people who like to indulge their minds into all kinds of nonsensical thoughts.

Why should they be given the authority to determine what life is and isn't? They can only tell us what life is and isn't for themselves. That's not what life is for me, and that certainly isn't what life is for a Christian. 


Ch3sty1775 wrote:
 What do you all think? What's your opinion on all of this? Am I full of shit? Or do I have something going? 
 

You smell like nothing more than a troll, to me...

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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Existentialism

redneF wrote:

Ch3sty1775 wrote:
 Existentialists believe "life is meaningless, ultimately."

That's a moronic ideology based out of a logical fallacy, by adding a superfluous adjective to a state of being.

Existentialism, like most any school of philosophical thought, is a series of questions and thought exercises. You could describe the over all theme as "life is meaningless, ultimately" but that is a 4 word sum up of volumes of ramblings by dozens of great thinkers who attack the subject from various viewpoints. Most existential texts are coming from a vantage point of someone who recently has come to discover that there is no god and thus there is no great purpose for humanity. They realize that they are not special and that, when they die their consciousness will exist no more. What do we do with that?

People come into trouble when the expect a fatalistic school of thought like existentialism to answer our deep questions for us. It's not supposed to answer questions for us, its supposed to help us think outside the box and come to our own (hopefully sound) conclusions. You want solid answers based on as much hard data as possible you need to look to science - not philosophy.

Anyway, watching these self-styled philosophers who occasionally grace these boards ramble on is painful and I sometimes have to chime in Smiling


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Ch3sty1775 wrote: I guess

Ch3sty1775 wrote:

 I guess there's no real way of forming the question. I rephrased the question at the end of the intro. Do you think I have something interesting to think about? or am I just going crazy? 

To me it looks like you're going normal. There's nothing wrong about less personal philosophical values. I'm sure many philosophic minds would gladly exchange a piece of philosophy for a piece of ass.

Some of such minds realize, that normality is like a luxurious secret club, where you need invitation and several recommendations from members. Normality is more mysterious than Plato's world of ideas.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.