Politi-vangelists and the Cult of New Glory

Rich Woods
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harleysportster
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As always

As always, direct and to the point, and filled with common sense.

Ever thought of running for political office ? You would get my vote.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


Rich Woods
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Hahahaha.... Thanks

Hahahaha.... Thanks Harley....Yeah, and Atheist Swinger who has a wife with surgically anhanced protruberences bigger than her head... who has called the Pope a Cu*nt also tells Ra*pe and cancer jokes on Internet TV... Um... I have a feeling that public office is not in my futre... hahahahahaha


mellestad
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Good points, Rich.  At

Good points, Rich.  At least from what I can see, all sides have pretty much given up on anything but naked assertions and bile.  As you say, it seems to sell...but it leaves a lot of people disgusted with the whole system.

 

I'm actually very saddened by what has happened to the Tea Party.  I don't agree with them, but I have a lot of sympathy for the Libertarians who started the movement.  To see it co-opted in such a way has got to be discouraging.

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


Beyond Saving
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Good article Rich. You hit

Good article Rich. You hit right on many of the reservations I have about the Tea Party and why I haven't become involved with them.

 

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Yeah, and Atheist Swinger who has a wife with surgically anhanced protruberences bigger than her head... who has called the Pope a Cu*nt also tells Ra*pe and cancer jokes on Internet TV...

I think that sounds like a good list of prerequisites to run for public office. I suggest we make a Constitutional Amendment right now.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


harleysportster
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Beyond Saving wrote:Yeah,

Beyond Saving wrote:

I think that sounds like a good list of prerequisites to run for public office. I suggest we make a Constitutional Amendment right now.

I would second that motion completely.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


mellestad
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Beyond Saving wrote:Good

Beyond Saving wrote:

Good article Rich. You hit right on many of the reservations I have about the Tea Party and why I haven't become involved with them.

 

Quote:

Yeah, and Atheist Swinger who has a wife with surgically anhanced protruberences bigger than her head... who has called the Pope a Cu*nt also tells Ra*pe and cancer jokes on Internet TV...

I think that sounds like a good list of prerequisites to run for public office. I suggest we make a Constitutional Amendment right now.

What do you see among the people you know, Beyond?  I see a lot of the original Ron Paul supporters being swept into the Tea Party movement and many seem to be buying rhetoric I know they wouldn't have supported six or eight years ago.

Do you see any general Libertarian backlash?  Are they just riding the wave while retaining their original ideals?  Are their views being morphed into something more closely resembling the populist Tea Party message?  Something else?

 

I'm not a part of the Libertarian scene like I used to be, so I don't really know what's going on anymore.  The Libertarian leaning forums I used to frequent became totally un-readable shortly after Obama took office (2nd ammendment solutions, FEMA concentration camps, birth certificates, 9/11 truthers, etc. and the physical Tea Party groups around here are just...well, they're fucking crazy.  My employer started getting hate mail from one of the local groups when they found out we started a satellite office in China (A whole six people).  They ranted about how they were going to start campaigns to kick us out of town.  This for a company that has doubled its staff in the last five years.  So, you know, lets protest a company growing internationally by shutting down a factory that provides 200 local jobs.  They wouldn't know Libertarianism if it bit them in the ass.

 

Anyway, long story short, where are the original Libertarians at now?  Am I looking in the wrong places, or have they been absorbed into the seething mass of bullshit?

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


Beyond Saving
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mellestad wrote:What do you

mellestad wrote:

What do you see among the people you know, Beyond?  I see a lot of the original Ron Paul supporters being swept into the Tea Party movement and many seem to be buying rhetoric I know they wouldn't have supported six or eight years ago.

Do you see any general Libertarian backlash?  Are they just riding the wave while retaining their original ideals?  Are their views being morphed into something more closely resembling the populist Tea Party message?  Something else?

 

I'm not a part of the Libertarian scene like I used to be, so I don't really know what's going on anymore.  The Libertarian leaning forums I used to frequent became totally un-readable shortly after Obama took office (2nd ammendment solutions, FEMA concentration camps, birth certificates, 9/11 truthers, etc. and the physical Tea Party groups around here are just...well, they're fucking crazy.  My employer started getting hate mail from one of the local groups when they found out we started a satellite office in China (A whole six people).  They ranted about how they were going to start campaigns to kick us out of town.  This for a company that has doubled its staff in the last five years.  So, you know, lets protest a company growing internationally by shutting down a factory that provides 200 local jobs.  They wouldn't know Libertarianism if it bit them in the ass.

 

Anyway, long story short, where are the original Libertarians at now?  Am I looking in the wrong places, or have they been absorbed into the seething mass of bullshit?

I think that Libertarians are where we have always been, a relatively small minority of people, who have a strong distaste with politics as usual and find ourselves allying with political forces out of convenience of the moment rather than principal. I have attended several of the Tea Party events around and even the big Glenn Beck rally in August. Your right, a lot of the organized "Tea Party" groups are simply branches of the radical ends of the republican party. A lot of the libertarian style rhetoric that you see is simply astute politicians recognizing a message that is currently popular. And in many cases, the Tea Party candidates are the same people who have been involved in republican party politics for a long time and have found themselves on the disfavored side of the party structure (political parties have a lot of internal infighting that is really more personal than policy based). The only real change I see coming out of the Tea Party is potentially some semblance of a balanced budget. As far as any other libertarian ideals I hold very little hope. 

 

The root of the problem is that by their nature libertarians don't organize. It is like herding cats, all we really want is to be left alone. There is little motivation for us to get involved with party style politics which is rife with people trying to control other people. A good politician is a control freak. So while we might have the occasional successful protest, those who want power and want to control people will always be more successful at creating the structure necessary to change national politics. Walk into a room full of libertarians and start issuing orders and see how far you get. It is a problem I don't have an answer for. The Tea Party starts as a libertarian movement and then the control freaks come in and start taking things over. So most libertarians shrug their shoulders, walk away and go on with their lives. And as Rich pointed out, most of us live lifestyles or have done things that would get the religious right up in arms, so even if you could get decent campaign organization your odds of winning would be slim.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


mellestad
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@Beyond:  Hmm.  Makes

@Beyond:  Hmm.  Makes sense I suppose.  As you said, not a very positive outlook on the future of Libertarianism though.

 

Thanks for the input though, I appreciate it.

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.