why do girls do it?

Cpt_pineapple
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why do girls do it?

why they just use sex to get what they want?

 

i hate it it make us object only for men not for us

 

watch this

 

 

they just parade around to please men and get money

 

i not drunk i just have a few drinks but i see it everywhere and hate it

 

 

 

 

 


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Sandycane wrote:Marcus,I'll

Sandycane wrote:
Marcus,

I'll spare you (and me) the line-by-line reply and keep it brief...

Most of the accusations and insults thus far have been directed at me although none of them actually apply to me (I will take responsibility for the sexist anti-male comments, though). I am not jealous. I am not an old hag. And, I never said that their behavior or dress was BAD or WRONG. What I did was describe them as how I saw them according to their dress and behavior.

The only thing that could be considered 'bad' about dressing and acting that way is that others will say you look like a slut or, tramp or, whatever.

Is it BAD or WRONG to present yourself in a way that resembles a slut? I don't think so.

Is it BAD or, WRONG to actually be a slut? Again, I would say no BUT, there could be bad consequences for making that choice... like going to a bar shit-faced drunk looking and acting like a slut, you will most likely be treated like one. If that is the response you are after, then you'll most likely get it.

For me, those words are simply descriptions of appearance... no different than seeing someone at a Halloween party dressed like Sailor Moon, Wonder Woman, the Wicked Witch of the West or, Snow White... they are dressing and acting out the character while not being the character.

Make sense to you?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but anyway.

 

This is a much better re-phrase of what you're trying to say, and I agree with it for the most part.  The main negative is in the way you will be treated by society.  This applies to open homosexuality as well, or atheism, or many other public actions...is there anything wrong with it?  No.  Will society treat you differently?  Yes.  So, when choosing to do something in public it is wise to consider the reaction of society as well as considering whether something is actually moral or immoral.  You might decide you don't care, and tell society to go to hell, or you might decide the stigma isn't worth it, but considering the reality is important.

 

My only caveat would be what Marcus points out below, that the language used is not 'neutral'.  Simply saying someone is dressed like a slut has moral connotations, at least the way those words are used in our society.  There is an implied judgment.  If someone says, "My, you're dressing racy tonight" and, "My, you're dressed like a whore tonight" the message is entirely different.  To continue the examples above, it would be like saying, "Wow, I bet that guy is gay!" versus "Wow, I bet that guy is a fag!".  They mean the same thing, and 'technically' the words themselves posses no moral judgment, but the average listener is going to make a justified assumption.  In my experience, the root of moral judgement about sexuality seems to be religious, whether the person in question is religious or not.

 

If you *really* had no negative emotion in your head when you wrote the original stuff about that band, that is one thing, but anyone reading it is going it see an implied moral judgment simply based on the language and you need to be aware of that.

Now, if the above makes sense, you can analyze the way you used language and figure out if you are making an implicit judgment based on what language you use.

 

soapbox/

Everyone is prejudiced.  Psychologists have done studies with toddlers that show even babies are racist, and they've done studies with adults that show racism is inherent in most, if not all, humans...so the issue isn't feeling something, the issue is acknowledging where you might be making irrational judgments and applying conscious effort to work around them.

Being able to do that self-analysis is what separates rational people from individuals like redneF who can't see past their own ego to effect positive change in themselves.

/soapbox

 

 

But honestly, that is just quibbling.  As stated in your last post I barely have anything to comment on, other than, "I agree".

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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greek goddess wrote:Well I

greek goddess wrote:

Well I guess I'll get us back to the topic at hand. I haven't posted on here in forever, but decided to check out what was going on in the forums, and I saw this gem of a thread. And if any of you know me at all, you know that you can find me in a sexuality thread! 

First of all, just had to say that I love the song "Buttons," haha. And actually put time into learning the dance routine from the video so that I could do a seductive dance for my then-boyfriend a few years back. Personally, I actually applaud what the Pussycat Dolls are doing; to me, they send the message that it's ok to be comfortable with one's sexuality, and to not be afraid to express that aspect of oneself.

Can women be objectified sexually? Yes. But in my opinion, the way to counteract this is not to "close up shop" and demand that no woman display her body in a sexual manner; instead, I think it's healthier to encourage women to express their sexuality, so that people can see that almost EVERYONE is a sexual being, in addition to being a lot of other fascinating and interesting things (career-wise, interests-wise, etc.). That way, you take power away from those that are a "one-trick pony" - just a "sex object" - and instead place it on people that have a lot more going on. People don't have to be either sexy OR career-oriented, intellectual, etc. They can be both. Does that make sense? Maybe not. In my head it seemed to, haha.  

I also want to lash out at the societal standard that women essentially act as prudes. Come on man, this is the 21st century. We are well aware that a large percentage of our behavior is sexually motivated (I'm sure Hamby could give stats on this). Why pretend like we're above this? Why can't I, as a woman, desire sex, too? The standard seems to be that men are the ones that are supposed to proposition a woman, and if you're a "decent" woman, you'll refuse. WTH? I'm just as guilty of wanting sex sometimes, and I know I'm just as guilty of "coming on" to men as men are to women. Why is this behavior considered lewd for women, but normal for men?

Which brings me to this point: I like sex. And I've had a lot of it. With a lot of different people. And I'm not ashamed of it, nor do I think any woman should be of her sexuality. 99% of the time all I want out of sex is sex. When I go out, I dress attractively, and often score free drinks, weed, or other perks because of it, though I usually don't actively try to. So why do I do it? Well, I guess because, as other posters have pointed out, it works. If people are willing to offer me free stuff, I'm probably not going to turn it down - I mean, it's free! I don't see the difference between being rewarded for looking good, and being rewarded for getting a good report card by my parents when I was little.  

Finally, I agree with the comments that accused pineapple and sandy of being jealous of these "slutty" women. I know I'm sometimes guilty of feeling jealous toward a woman more scantily dressed than myself, and it basically boils down to the fact that I feel that when she's around, I'm not the most sexually desirable woman in the room. Selfish, but true. 

Hope this post made a modicum of sense. I'm a bit rusty at posting, so go easy on me. 

 

Bravo, young lady. My wife wants to adopt you...hahahaha

 

I guess it's about time I weighed in here... since out of all the subjects that I blather on about here on this messageboard, this is the one where I have at least a little credibility. But I hate posting more than a couple of sentences...

Empowered, vibrant, successful Women in America would never dream of relegating themselves to second class citizenship.... unless its about their sexual autonomy.  Women in America are still being made to bear the burdon of guilt for sexuality, and STILL endure a "moral double standard"... Conventional wisom would have us believe that a man's libido allows for a certain amount of sexual "leeway"... and when it comes to libertine inclinations... well, that's just "how men are"... while women still must supress their libidinous proclivities for fear of being labeled a "slut, or a whore" by a "Vanilla" society...

Many of the misconceptions we have about women and sexuality stem from various (religion based) patriarchal societies which have contributed to our melting pot... it is thousands of years of erectile dysfunction which most probably have spawned the sexism in our Holy Writs... societally, we see extreme examples (the middle east)...and not so extreme (the USA)

To offer an example... a smartly dressed, fashionable woman sees another woman whose attire she does not approve of... So She brands her a "Slut"....

Behind the first woman, is a Burkha wearing Muslim, who is aghast that this woman has the audacity to show her face. In the Muslim's mind, the first woman is also a "slut"... I maintain that this label is senseless, and when women use it on one another they do nothing but contribute to the moral double standard...

I just don't feel that anyone has the right to determine how anyone else should, or should not express their sexual proclivities... The nature, manner and frequency that one copulates, let alone how they dress, is their decision... and to impose one's "morality" on someone whom they feel doesn't fit with their astigmatic view on sexual liberation, is in itself Immoral. My wife and I spend a lot of time in, and around the "adult industry"... some of the most decent, moral people we know screw for a living...

Here's another quickie about morals, and sexuality... Apparently, Bernie Madoff remained faithful to his wife... How are *his* morals?

I think Hustler put it best: "Relax, it's just sex"


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marcusfish wrote:I am a

marcusfish wrote:

I am a classist. I grew up quite poor and my life has built in the direction that most poor people's lives develop. My opportunities and influences weren't probably the best and I have turned out accordingly. I find that, when I allow myself, I have a great deal of animosity toward the privileged.

When I am in traffic and some yutz in a Lexus cuts me off you can bet that I am yelling something about being a "yuppie mammas boy" into my windshield. Now, if I were to say that to the guys face I would probably feel pretty crummy about it (maybe not then, but I would eventually). That would be because I tore him down for the fact that he had different and probably much higher potential of success than myself in areas which I find important. He went to better schools than I did, was exposed to better role models, had plenty of money to take specialized classes etc. When it comes to some of life's challenges which I find worthy of considering, he is probably way better at them and his chance of success is likely considerably higher.

It's not his fault that he grew up different than I did; he just did. I can hate him for it if I want but that's hardly fair.

I suspect this is close to the envy issue which women feel toward their female competitors.

It's bad enough to feel like you're losing but it's doubly offensive to feel like you're losing for non-merit based reasons.

Beauty, like wealth is inherited and even worse it's subjective. It seems normal to feel anger towards people when you think you've been thrust into an unfair competition with them. 

What I find disturbing is that some people (not just women) seem to actually believe that their "betters" are actually better for these reasons. If you tell a woman she's jealous she'll say "I don't need to be jealous because I am attractive" as if physical beauty actually makes one superior.

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


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Sandycane wrote:What emotion

Sandycane wrote:

What emotion is that, you refer to?

Keen observation is a quality not an emotion.

  

       You've mastered the art of indifference.  I'm jealous....


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mellestad wrote:I know this

mellestad wrote:

I know this wasn't directed at me, but anyway.

 

This is a much better re-phrase of what you're trying to say, and I agree with it for the most part.  The main negative is in the way you will be treated by society.  This applies to open homosexuality as well, or atheism, or many other public actions...is there anything wrong with it?  No.  Will society treat you differently?  Yes.  So, when choosing to do something in public it is wise to consider the reaction of society as well as considering whether something is actually moral or immoral.  You might decide you don't care, and tell society to go to hell, or you might decide the stigma isn't worth it, but considering the reality is important.

 

My only caveat would be what Marcus points out below, that the language used is not 'neutral'.  Simply saying someone is dressed like a slut has moral connotations, at least the way those words are used in our society.  There is an implied judgment.  If someone says, "My, you're dressing racy tonight" and, "My, you're dressed like a whore tonight" the message is entirely different.  To continue the examples above, it would be like saying, "Wow, I bet that guy is gay!" versus "Wow, I bet that guy is a fag!".  They mean the same thing, and 'technically' the words themselves posses no moral judgment, but the average listener is going to make a justified assumption.  In my experience, the root of moral judgement about sexuality seems to be religious, whether the person in question is religious or not.

 

If you *really* had no negative emotion in your head when you wrote the original stuff about that band, that is one thing, but anyone reading it is going it see an implied moral judgment simply based on the language and you need to be aware of that.

Now, if the above makes sense, you can analyze the way you used language and figure out if you are making an implicit judgment based on what language you use.

 

soapbox/

Everyone is prejudiced.  Psychologists have done studies with toddlers that show even babies are racist, and they've done studies with adults that show racism is inherent in most, if not all, humans...so the issue isn't feeling something, the issue is acknowledging where you might be making irrational judgments and applying conscious effort to work around them.

Being able to do that self-analysis is what separates rational people from individuals like redneF who can't see past their own ego to effect positive change in themselves.

/soapbox

 

 

But honestly, that is just quibbling.  As stated in your last post I barely have anything to comment on, other than, "I agree".

Thank you! And yes, I agree, too... with all of it. I see your point about the negative connotations of the word and I suppose I could have (should have) used a less demeaning word to describe my impression of the video...especially since I do not see anything WRONG with dressing like that or their behavior (other than those opinions that have already been expressed regarding society and consequences). But,'slut' seemed to sum it all up in one word.

Woo-hoo. Can we mark this thread 'Solved' now?

Oh, and now, I'm going to remove my bare ass from the Internet... (don't everyone applaud at once)

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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Gauche wrote:If you tell a

Gauche wrote:
If you tell a woman she's jealous she'll say "I don't need to be jealous because I am attractive" as if physical beauty actually makes one superior.

 

 

That's...wow.  I've never thought of it that way before.  That sucks.

 

I mean, on one hand it's wrong, but on the other hand it is true.  If we valued equality, then it ought to be wrong to think that way, but the reality is being attractive is a legitimate advantage and something worth feeling inferior over if you lack it.

Well, I've achieved my depressing thought for the day.  Well, nevermind, I guess watching that couple be stoned to death this morning was more depressing.  Shit, I'm glad it's Friday.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:...Well,

mellestad wrote:

...

Well, I've achieved my depressing thought for the day.  Well, nevermind, I guess watching that couple be stoned to death this morning was more depressing.  Shit, I'm glad it's Friday.

I chose to not watch it. Some things don't need to be seen...

LIKE THAT PICTURE OF SANDY KANE  Rich posted yesterday! That was really disturbing.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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Sandycane wrote:Woo-hoo. Can

Sandycane wrote:

Woo-hoo. Can we mark this thread 'Solved' now?

Lol, I hope so.

Sandycane wrote:

Oh, and now, I'm going to remove my bare ass from the Internet... (don't everyone applaud at once)

Haha, that was a rather brave thing to post.  Or stupid.  Or something Sticking out tongue

You know, I've been on forums where I don't mind posting personal information (Although no-one wants to see me half-naked), but honestly RSS gets some freaky mother-fuckers filled with an awful lot of hate.  Think of the personality type that created the page on the Encyclopedia Dramatica, then apply it to yourself.  Probably for the best you took it down, in any case.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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Sandycane wrote:  Woo-hoo.

Sandycane wrote:

 

 

Woo-hoo. Can we mark this thread 'Solved' now?

 

Why not ? In a couple of weeks the Captain will probably get pissed off and post another anti-entertainer thread with a few sentences and we can do this all over again.

But maybe she'll leave the pussycat dolls out of the next one. Next time, we can argue over whether Madonna was a better singer than Lady Gaga  is and which of them was more sexual.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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harleysportster

harleysportster wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

 

 

Woo-hoo. Can we mark this thread 'Solved' now?

 

Why not ? In a couple of weeks the Captain will probably get pissed off and post another anti-entertainer thread with a few sentences and we can do this all over again.

But maybe she'll leave the pussycat dolls out of the next one. Next time, we can argue over whether Madonna was a better singer than Lady Gaga  is and which of them was more sexual.

If by pissed off you mean, "Pissed" then yes, I'm sure it will happen.

Drunk-Captain seems to prefer darker, more swarthy women than Madonna or Lady Gaga though, so I doubt we'll see any threads about it from her.

But that sounds like a fun conversation anyway...I'm a little bit of a Lady Gaga fiend, and Madonna is pretty gosh darned swell.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:I mean, on

mellestad wrote:

I mean, on one hand it's wrong, but on the other hand it is true.  If we valued equality, then it ought to be wrong to think that way, but the reality is being attractive is a legitimate advantage and something worth feeling inferior over if you lack it.

I'll tell you the same way I told my HR rep. He asked "How do you feel about your superiors?" I said, I'll tell you as soon as I meet one. 

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


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mellestad wrote:...But that

mellestad wrote:

...

But that sounds like a fun conversation anyway...I'm a little bit of a Lady Gaga fiend, and Madonna is pretty gosh darned swell.

Gaga and Madonna...hmmm... they both look like sluts to me.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I like Madonna. Gaga, not so much, not familiar enough with her to have a definite opinion.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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Rich Woods wrote: Bravo,

Rich Woods wrote:
 

Bravo, young lady. My wife wants to adopt you...hahahaha

Aww thanks! I'm honored! My own parents are very sexually conservative, and don't approve of my promiscuity, so it would be awesome to have parents like you guys that are very open about and accepting of that type of stuff. 

 

Rich Woods wrote:

I think Hustler put it best: "Relax, it's just sex"

Yes! I love this quote. Most of the people I've slept with, I had no emotional connection to. When we initially started dating, my boyfriend had some issues with my past, but I've been trying to get him to see that sex is healthy, normal, and not something to be ashamed of. Nearly a year and a half in, he's finally starting to see things from this perspective. yay!  But yes, I think more people need to loosen up about sex and not care so much who they sleep with, and especially who other people sleep with. 


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Good to have you back

Good to have you back greek

 

 

In the case of the PCD they're not mixing sex with intelligence, they're just using sex to sell their catchy music. But if you do mix sex appeal with intelligence, your intelligence will get thrown out and people will just focus on your sex appeal. That's the point. No matter how intelligent a woman may be, it's always her sex appeal that's the focus.

 

I'm not trying to repress women or anything like that, if you want to dance seductivly for your boyfriend/girlfriend than you can do that, but I think it's a personal issue and you don't have to post the dance on Youtube for the "omg i want 2 c ur tits" comments to boost self esteem.

 

As for me being jealous, I don't think that's the case, as I can wear a school girl's uniform too but I don't. The point is that I can emulate their behaviour but I don't because I don't want to compromise myself and not having people gawking at my cleavage/navel.

 

 

 

 

 


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:  No

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

 

 No matter how intelligent a woman may be, it's always her sex appeal that's the focus.

How did you come to that conclusion ? My boss happens to be a woman that I find to be intelligent and pleasant to work under. I would prefer to work under her than some of the other male managers. Not because of her sex appeal, but because she knows exactly what she is doing and has her stuff together.

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

I'm not trying to repress women or anything like that, if you want to dance seductivly for your boyfriend/girlfriend than you can do that, but I think it's a personal issue and you don't have to post the dance on Youtube for the "omg i want 2 c ur tits" comments to boost self esteem.

Even though I believe people should have the right to do what they want with their sex lives, wherever and whenever they want, I actually agree with you somewhat.  I actually prefer modestly dressed women for the most part.

But that doesn't mean, that I think that EVERYONE should have the same tastes as mine. I don't care anything about the PCD, Britney Spears, or any of the rest of them, but why should I personally have an issue with people that enjoy their music ? The PCD are not forcing me to watch their videos at gunpoint nor anyone else that I am aware of. I personally do not see how we can distinguish between what is intelligent music or non-intelligent music. I like the Rolling Stones for instance. Many people have told me their music is lousy and all about sex and drugs, but I LIKE it. Do I expect everyone to like the Rolling Stones ? How could I ?

 

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

As for me being jealous, I don't think that's the case, as I can wear a school girl's uniform too but I don't. The point is that I can emulate their behaviour but I don't because I don't want to compromise myself and not having people gawking at my cleavage/navel.

 

That's fine, that is your personal choice and I am all for it. But do you think every other women should have the same standards as yours ?

Let's take the sex thing out of it for a moment.

I was raised in a household where I had my hair cut extremely short, had dress shirts and dress pants for school, etc. etc. It was another miserable aspect of being raised in a religious household and I always felt sinful  because I did not want to dress and look like that.

When I got to be a younger man and started rejecting religion, my hair got longer and longer and my beard shortly followed. Tattoos were also forbidden in my household and when I got out on my own, my arms started getting massive ink, with images of snakes and strippers and everything else I could think of. My father always had alot of stuff to say about earrings, so I got one in both ears and put a stud through the nose to add to it.  I had my moment of weird liberation and never looked back.

Here it is years later and I still got the long hair, the beard, (well the tats aren't going anywhere, hehe) and the piercings. I dress the way I do because it is me and I like it. Can everybody look like me ? Well, it would be a pretty far out society if we did and I don't expect everyone to. But to this day, when I am unfortunate enough to cross paths with a family member, I still have to hear, "When are you going to grow up and look like a man?".

My point is, I don't know if women or men are all about sex in the way that they dress, Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe they are just comfortable with the way they look. I can't really see nothing wrong with it. Maybe if I was a woman with a different background and different perspective I would.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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I'm too drunk for this, but

I'm too drunk for this, but I'll try anyway...

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Good to have you back greek

Thanks pineapple! Nice to see you're still around too! I must have missed when you got the atheist badge, but congrats! For the record I've always liked you, for at least standing up for your convictions. 

 

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

In the case of the PCD they're not mixing sex with intelligence, they're just using sex to sell their catchy music. But if you do mix sex appeal with intelligence, your intelligence will get thrown out and people will just focus on your sex appeal. That's the point. No matter how intelligent a woman may be, it's always her sex appeal that's the focus.

Yes, I realize it's rather one-sided. However, I also happen to think at least a couple of them are good singers, and are thereby using their sexuality to promote their talents in this department. But yes, I agree with you that their basic gimmick is to look and act sexy in order to attract attention. However, I do have to disagree with your statement that a woman's intellect gets thrown out the window in favor of sex appeal.. I know a number of women who work in the science field at my university, yet have kids, and presumably some semblance of a sex life, yet still manage to act professional in a professional setting. And take, for instance, the DC call girls, who are paid not only for their sexuality, but also for their listening skills and knowledge about politics. I truly don't think that sexuality and intellect are mutually exclusive traits. Maybe we, as a society, should work on recognizing these traits in others, but I don't think it is impossible to achieve that.

 

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

I'm not trying to repress women or anything like that, if you want to dance seductivly for your boyfriend/girlfriend than you can do that, but I think it's a personal issue and you don't have to post the dance on Youtube for the "omg i want 2 c ur tits" comments to boost self esteem.

Well for the record, my "strip dance" wasn't even recorded, much less put on youtube. But yes, I see what you're getting at. I guess I just wonder why we, as women, should be ashamed to receive compliments for our looks, as opposed to something less tangible, like intellect. In my case, at least, both are things that I work hard at, so I'd be equally pleased to receive a compliment about one or the other. But I do see your point that maybe it's unhealthy for people to thrive off of the opinions of others (I will add: regardless of whether it applies to looks or intellect), and we should instead strive to find inner peace and acceptance.

 

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

As for me being jealous, I don't think that's the case, as I can wear a school girl's uniform too but I don't. The point is that I can emulate their behaviour but I don't because I don't want to compromise myself and not having people gawking at my cleavage/navel.

Well I think that's perfectly fine and acceptable that you don't want to reveal those parts of yourself to others. Nothing wrong with that; it's a personal choice, and I totally respect that. However, I urge you to think about why then, it bothers you that others choose to reveal their cleavage/navel/etc., and why you are so opposed to this. Clearly, I don't have the answers - I was only speculating with the jealousy theory - but if it bothers you, I would really like for you to articulate why. Just to satisfy the curiosity of those of us participating in this thread, haha.

Ok, I'm falling behind on my gin and tonic, so I'm gonna get back to drinking. I hope you have a good night, pineapple! 

 


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harleysportster

harleysportster wrote:

 

 

 

 

Here it is years later and I still got the long hair, the beard, (well the tats aren't going anywhere, hehe) and the piercings. I dress the way I do because it is me and I like it. Can everybody look like me ? Well, it would be a pretty far out society if we did and I don't expect everyone to. But to this day, when I am unfortunate enough to cross paths with a family member, I still have to hear, "When are you going to grow up and look like a man?".

 

   Your self-description reminded me of "Roy", a master electrician that I used to work with.  Total ( outlaw ) biker dude, not a Discovery Channel wanna be.  At the time he was also a prospect with one of the local Texas biker gangs.  The tats and long hair are simply who he is and probably always will be...and anyone that didn't like it had best keep it to themselves, lol.    Funny thing, after getting to know him I found out he's one of the nicest guys I've ever worked with, a real honorable dude.

 

 


harleysportster
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Sandycane wrote: Gaga and

Sandycane wrote:

 Gaga and Madonna...hmmm... they both look like sluts to me.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

LOL.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


NoMoreCrazyPeople
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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

harleysportster wrote:

 

 

 

 

Here it is years later and I still got the long hair, the beard, (well the tats aren't going anywhere, hehe) and the piercings. I dress the way I do because it is me and I like it. Can everybody look like me ? Well, it would be a pretty far out society if we did and I don't expect everyone to. But to this day, when I am unfortunate enough to cross paths with a family member, I still have to hear, "When are you going to grow up and look like a man?".

 

   Your self-description reminded me of "Roy", a master electrician that I used to work with.  Total ( outlaw ) biker dude, not a Discovery Channel wanna be.  At the time he was also a prospect with one of the local Texas biker gangs.  The tats and long hair are simply who he is and probably always will be...and anyone that didn't like it had best keep it to themselves, lol.    Funny thing, after getting to know him I found out he's one of the nicest guys I've ever worked with, a real honorable dude.

 

 

I've notice this about most biker types, they are some of the nicest guys around, as long as you don't fuck with them.  Even HA and other gang members are usually super nice and respectful aslong as you don't mess with their business, if you do well start diggin your grave.  In my personal experience biker types have all been super nice dudes that always excepted me right away even though I look nothing like a biker.


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Gauche wrote: It's bad

Gauche wrote:

 

It's bad enough to feel like you're losing but it's doubly offensive to feel like you're losing for non-merit based reasons.

Beauty, like wealth is inherited and even worse it's subjective. It seems normal to feel anger towards people when you think you've been thrust into an unfair competition with them. 

Good perspective Gauche. I don't think you are wrong about there being a sense of unfairness behind much of the animosity between women on this issue. It's quite reasonable and, as you say, normal to feel anger when you're compelled to submit to capricious forces such as ideas of beauty, and in that sense girls like Pineapple and Sandy are vindicated in their questioning of those who embrace and promote what seems like unfair competition. 

At the same time, though, it's true that some of us run with this too far, to the point of dismissing and ignoring merit that does apply simply because beauty is involved in the judgement. To wit the girls in Cpt's original videos are an excellent example. There is nothing cruisy about the commitment required to be fit for thousands of displays of phenomenal athleticism each year, nor the dangers and consequences of high energy stage performance. In short the Pussycat Dolls need surely have committed their lives to looking this certain way, whether it's a noble commitment is another question, but I can't say it's without some merit in their efforts.

 

Gauche wrote:

What I find disturbing is that some people (not just women) seem to actually believe that their "betters" are actually better for these reasons. If you tell a woman she's jealous she'll say "I don't need to be jealous because I am attractive" as if physical beauty actually makes one superior.

 

If I might go a bit deeper into the question of how noble it is to commit oneself so fully to the pursuit of a physical image. The further issue I have is does it better anything at all? Is anything in our society better for the fact of those having dedicated all their personal energy to increase the comeliness of their bodily proportions or is this ludicrous sense of unbalanced competition the only legacy?

 

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Eloise wrote:Good

Eloise wrote:

Good perspective Gauche. I don't think you are wrong about there being a sense of unfairness behind much of the animosity between women on this issue. It's quite reasonable and, as you say, normal to feel anger when you're compelled to submit to capricious forces such as ideas of beauty, and in that sense girls like Pineapple and Sandy are vindicated in their questioning of those who embrace and promote what seems like unfair competition. 

At the same time, though, it's true that some of us run with this too far, to the point of dismissing and ignoring merit that does apply simply because beauty is involved in the judgement. To wit the girls in Cpt's original videos are an excellent example. There is nothing cruisy about the commitment required to be fit for thousands of displays of phenomenal athleticism each year, nor the dangers and consequences of high energy stage performance. In short the Pussycat Dolls need surely have committed their lives to looking this certain way, whether it's a noble commitment is another question, but I can't say it's without some merit in their efforts.

 I don't think anyone should minimize their achievements because they are clearly talented and hard-working but there may be reasons why some aren't so eager to praise them.

If any woman had her makeup and hair done by professionals, and wore tailor-made clothes, and had perfect lighting, a personal trainer and expensive surgery she would be beautiful by those standards. She could have started out looking like Meg Mucklebones from the movie Legend.

Women in general seem to labor over being attractive without much recognition.

 

Eloise wrote:
If I might go a bit deeper into the question of how noble it is to commit oneself so fully to the pursuit of a physical image. The further issue I have is does it better anything at all? Is anything in our society better for the fact of those having dedicated all their personal energy to increase the comeliness of their bodily proportions or is this ludicrous sense of unbalanced competition the only legacy?

 

 That's an interesting question. It's probably one of those situations where it benefits almost no one at the expense of almost everyone else. I think more often than not this kind of self improvment results from internalizing values that aren't necessarily beneficial to you or others.

One thing I've noticed is that when a man ends a relationship with a woman she will often times "improve" her physical appearance, as if to suggest he underestimated her beauty and therefore her worth, rather than saying he would have been wrong to value her for that reason. It's possible her man didn't even think that way but now she does. Even if he did it's difficult to imagine how it would improve the situation for either person were she to adopt that way thinking as well. 

 

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


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For The Love Of God, What Is Your Point

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
I'm not trying to repress women or anything like that, if you want to dance seductivly for your boyfriend/girlfriend than you can do that, but I think it's a personal issue and you don't have to post the dance on Youtube for the "omg i want 2 c ur tits" comments to boost self esteem.

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
As for me being jealous, I don't think that's the case, as I can wear a school girl's uniform too but I don't. The point is that I can emulate their behaviour but I don't because I don't want to compromise myself and not having people gawking at my cleavage/navel.

If you are not envious and you are not trying to repress their expression... why is this thread here?


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You are wrong, Sandy.

Sandycane wrote:

mellestad wrote:

...

Well, I've achieved my depressing thought for the day.  Well, nevermind, I guess watching that couple be stoned to death this morning was more depressing.  Shit, I'm glad it's Friday.

I chose to not watch it. Some things don't need to be seen...

LIKE THAT PICTURE OF SANDY KANE  Rich posted yesterday! That was really disturbing.

 

There are some things that must be seen. We should know what we are dealing with. 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


Beyond Saving
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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

mellestad wrote:

...

Well, I've achieved my depressing thought for the day.  Well, nevermind, I guess watching that couple be stoned to death this morning was more depressing.  Shit, I'm glad it's Friday.

I chose to not watch it. Some things don't need to be seen...

LIKE THAT PICTURE OF SANDY KANE  Rich posted yesterday! That was really disturbing.

 

There are some things that must be seen. We should know what we are dealing with. 

 

For example, if you ever wake up next to that you really ought to consider going to rehab.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

Sandycane wrote:

mellestad wrote:

...

Well, I've achieved my depressing thought for the day.  Well, nevermind, I guess watching that couple be stoned to death this morning was more depressing.  Shit, I'm glad it's Friday.

I chose to not watch it. Some things don't need to be seen...

LIKE THAT PICTURE OF SANDY KANE  Rich posted yesterday! That was really disturbing.

 

There are some things that must be seen. We should know what we are dealing with. 

 

For example, if you ever wake up next to that you really ought to consider going to rehab.

 

Around here we say that is coyote ugly - like a coyote chews their leg off to get out of a trap, you will chew your arm off rather than wake her up when you get out of bed.

Yeah, rehab would be a good idea at that point.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

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