Islamic Doctrine Is A Hate Crime That Encourages Murder

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Islamic Doctrine Is A Hate Crime That Encourages Murder

Policeman shoots, kills Christians on Egypt train

  • From: AFP
  • January 12, 2011 9:53AM
Two of the others wounded were said to be in critical condition.

The policeman, who was not in uniform, got off the train after the attack and tried to flee but was arrested inside the station.

He was being questioned by the authorities to find out if he carried out the attack for religious reasons.

Bishop Morcos, who serves with the Coptic church in Samalut, said he had spoken to witnesses after the shooting.

"This lunatic went up and down the coach looking for Christians," the bishop recounted what he was told.

"Seeing a group of girls and women who were not wearing the (Islamic) veil, he took them for Christians and fired, shouting Allahu Akbar."

Later, witnesses said hundreds of Copts rallied outside Salamut's Good Shepherd hospital, where the wounded had been taken, and clashed with police, who fired tear gas at them.

The attack comes after the deadly New Year's bombing in the northern city of Alexandria that drew international condemnation.

No one has yet claimed responsibility for that attack, which came after threats to Egypt's Copts from the Al-Qaeda-linked group in Iraq that claimed a deadly October 31 attack on a Baghdad cathedral.

The group, the Islamic State of Iraq, said it would attack Copts if their church failed to release two women the group claimed were being held against their will after converting to Islam.

President Hosni Mubarak has blamed "foreign hands" as being behind the incident, and authorities said a suicide bomber was responsible.

Copts, who make up about 10 percent of Egypt's mostly Muslim population of 80 million people, have been targets of sectarian attacks in the past and complain of discrimination.

Egypt has been under tight security since the Alexandria bombing, and the measures were stepped up for Coptic Christmas Eve services on Thursday.

The New Year's Day bombing caused indignation around the world and prompted Pope Benedict XVI to express repeatedly his solidarity with the Copts and Christian across the Middle East.

But his remarks -- namely his call on world leaders to protect Egypt's Copts -- hit a raw nerve in Cairo where the foreign ministry on Tuesday announced it was recalling its Vatican envoy for consultations.

The action follows "new statements from the Vatican concerning Egypt which are considered by Egypt as unacceptable interference in its internal affairs," the foreign ministry spokesman said.

"Egypt will not allow any non-Egyptian faction to interfere in its internal affairs under any pretext," the statement said. "The Coptic question is specifically an internal Egyptian affair."

Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi quoted Vatican Foreign Minister Dominique Mamberti as saying during a meeting with the recalled ambassador that the church "completely shares the (Egyptian) government's concern with 'avoiding an escalation of clashes and religious tensions,' and appreciates its efforts in this direction."

A day after the Alexandria attack, the pope appealed for the "concrete and constant engagement of leaders of nations," in what he termed a "difficult mission."

At his New Year's Day mass, Benedict underscored that "humanity cannot display resignation in the face of negative forces of selfishness and violence, it cannot get accustomed to conflicts which claim victims and endanger the future of people."

Then on Monday the pope said the attack was "yet another sign of the urgent need for the governments of the region to adopt... effective measures for the protection of religious minorities".


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/world/policeman-kills-christian-on-egypt-train/story-e6frfkzr-1225986087710#ixzz1AmbPhd2K http://www.news.com.au/world/policeman-kills-christian-on-egypt-train/story-e6frfkzr-1225986087710 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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I once heard an interview

I once heard an interview with the author of the book "The Fight against Radical Islam".  He had studied the Koran and even lived in the Middle East for a while and he basically said what your thread title did.

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Atheistextremist
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Yeah

 

I don't like Islam. Having said that I don't like christianity either. But there is a difference in the teachings. The western church seems to have read Locke's Letter Concerning Toleration while Islam actively calls for the deaths of dhimmi's and promises eternal rewards for murder. The fact this stuff is still allowed to be printed in good society just kills me.

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist wrote: I

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

I don't like Islam. Having said that I don't like christianity either. But there is a difference in the teachings. The western church seems to have read Locke's Letter Concerning Toleration while Islam actively calls for the deaths of dhimmi's and promises eternal rewards for murder. The fact this stuff is still allowed to be printed in good society just kills me.

That's true but don't forget it wasn't TOO long ago that Christians also threatened to kill and/or torture you if you didn't convert.  They don't do it anymore and that's why the influence of Christianity is CRASHING like a rock!

Western society is based on INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM and that is worst thing Christians want to hear!! It goes against the FANTASY of their bible! Their DEMONIAC religion was spread by the sword through hate, intolerance, murder, torture. and slavery!!

Now they can't use threats and violence anymore so the influence of Christianity is NOTHING like what it used to be in the west.  A lot of clergy are depressed/upset about that eventhough they may not admit.

And they have outright LOST a lot of clergy as there are not as many clergy around as there used to be in many parts of the world!

BTW, are those floods in Australia affecting you? Where are you down under? The news video is AMAZING! The flooding covers a bigger area than France and Germany combined!

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Once again, you can point

Once again, you can point the finger at Islam, but Eric Rudoph, and the abortion doctor murderer were Christians.

So why don't we skip the labels and while recognizing the Middle East uses Islam far too much in politics, it simply doesn't have the secular leash on it the west has. But make no mistake about it, if the leash were taken off Christianity in the West, they would behave as barbarically as this guy did. Tribalism knows no label and it is only the concept of a neutral government that keeps the peace.

The Bible has as much justifications for violence in it as the Koran  does. The west simply has had 200 years of keeping it at bay. ALL holy books are weapons, PERIOD. It is just that the west has had a safety on Christianity and Islam, currently does not.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Atheistextremist
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Naw - am in Sydney

 

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

 

BTW, are those floods in Australia affecting you? Where are you down under? The news video is AMAZING! The flooding covers a bigger area than France and Germany combined!

 

 

Our geology is different to that of Brisbane, tho there areas here prone to flooding. BobSpense and Eloise are up there. As is my sister and her extended family - they are at Wynnum on the headland so they are fine materially speaking. Lost power but otherwise OK. It is serious stuff. It's a big country - nearly the same size as the U.S. but with 22,500,000 people.

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Nah, let's argue it out.

Brian37 wrote:

Once again, you can point the finger at Islam, but Eric Rudoph, and the abortion doctor murderer were Christians.

So why don't we skip the labels and while recognizing the Middle East uses Islam far too much in politics, it simply doesn't have the secular leash on it the west has. But make no mistake about it, if the leash were taken off Christianity in the West, they would behave as barbarically as this guy did. Tribalism knows no label and it is only the concept of a neutral government that keeps the peace.

The Bible has as much justifications for violence in it as the Koran  does. The west simply has had 200 years of keeping it at bay. ALL holy books are weapons, PERIOD. It is just that the west has had a safety on Christianity and Islam, currently does not.

This is not about labels, it's about the current state of the mindset of the population of the world, and what impact that mindset has on human behaviour. In the mid east, hateful mindsets are encouraged.

Don't forget, I loathe fundamentalist christianity - I simply think that in the middle east there are entire populations steeped in this violent, oppressive garbage to the exclusion of any tempering influence. In fact, a tempering influence is forbidden on pain of beatings or death. Western christianity can't be compared to the handful of nutjobs you have in the states. In the middle east most the social and political mechanism is governed by the hate-filled teachings of the koran.

I agree with you the bible has the potential for evil, I just think the religions that follow it have attained a higher level of social morality than we see evidenced in middle east through the development and acceptance of secular political science and the staunch division of church and state.  I don't think we should compare modern Islam to middle ages Christianity and let things rest. I think we should speak out vociferously, and insist that muslims reinterpret their faith to take into account the rights of man. If this sounds unlikely then you are getting the point.

This business of murder in the name of allah in Egypt, in Pakistan, in Sweden, in Holland, in the United States, cannot be tolerated. For the record, I don't like murder in the name of oil in Iraq, either.

Reading back over these posts I think we both believe much the same thing, tho I am strongly anti-islamic. I'd ban muslim immigration to Australia in a heartbeat. There are plenty of other refugees in the world who need our support and who don't teach their kids to hate the central tenets of our civilisation as the work of satan and the payers of their welfare checks as infidels to be burned. As far as I am concerned they can go and get fucked. 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


Mia2011 (not verified)
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"The fact this stuff is

"The fact this stuff is still allowed to be printed in good society just kills me."

So just what is good society? In fact, what is good? The majority of muslims believe that the hatred towards and destruction of non-believers is part of what makes a society good, and in fact, this is their aim for the whole world. So on what basis do you condemn them?

I am surprised that you are surprised. 

 


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What has your little rant

What has your little rant got to do with the subject of these posts? Was that supposed to be your rational response? You know, your user name alone indicates that you are a fanatic in your own right. How ironic.


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Brian37 wrote:Once again,

Brian37 wrote:

Once again, you can point the finger at Islam, but Eric Rudoph, and the abortion doctor murderer were Christians.

So why don't we skip the labels and while recognizing the Middle East uses Islam far too much in politics, it simply doesn't have the secular leash on it the west has. But make no mistake about it, if the leash were taken off Christianity in the West, they would behave as barbarically as this guy did. Tribalism knows no label and it is only the concept of a neutral government that keeps the peace.

The Bible has as much justifications for violence in it as the Koran  does. The west simply has had 200 years of keeping it at bay. ALL holy books are weapons, PERIOD. It is just that the west has had a safety on Christianity and Islam, currently does not.

The difference in western society is 99.99% of Christians don't take all the calls to VIOLENCE in the bible so literally.  In the OT it talks about killing people just because they don't believe in the same god but Christians don't go around doing that although they sure as hell used to just a few hundred years ago!! 

The intolerant/hateful/VIOLENT bible quotes are just as bad or even worse than anything in the Koran but Christians don't act on it:

Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

 

 

 

 

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Brian37
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JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Once again, you can point the finger at Islam, but Eric Rudoph, and the abortion doctor murderer were Christians.

So why don't we skip the labels and while recognizing the Middle East uses Islam far too much in politics, it simply doesn't have the secular leash on it the west has. But make no mistake about it, if the leash were taken off Christianity in the West, they would behave as barbarically as this guy did. Tribalism knows no label and it is only the concept of a neutral government that keeps the peace.

The Bible has as much justifications for violence in it as the Koran  does. The west simply has had 200 years of keeping it at bay. ALL holy books are weapons, PERIOD. It is just that the west has had a safety on Christianity and Islam, currently does not.

The difference in western society is 99.99% of Christians don't take all the calls to VIOLENCE in the bible so literally.  In the OT it talks about killing people just because they don't believe in the same god but Christians don't go around doing that although they sure as hell used to just a few hundred years ago!! 

The intolerant/hateful/VIOLENT bible quotes are just as bad or even worse than anything in the Koran but Christians don't act on it:

Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

 

 

 

 

ISLAM, as it stands now, from a political view, in the east does not have enough secular Muslims and is dominated by sectarian Sunnis and Shiites depending

The Middle East is fucked up in this respect. I agree.

What would you suggest the west do about it? Lower ourselves to their mentality? Start a nuclear war? We already know that Christian Republicans want nothing more than to flex their muscles and give into their fatalisic "end times" desires.

The only difference between Muslims and Christians is that Christians have had a longer time with a secular leash on them.

I don't know what you think the political solution is, but Christians being civil in the west doesn't mean they don't have the same gang mentality Muslims do. They just don't act in mass out in violence over their REAL desires.

And I think you are too negative. I think the age of the internet is reaching the secular people in the east. While their respective governments still dominate their people, instances like Neda, and the assassination of the female running for PM in Pakistan (WHO WAS MODERATE AND SECULAR) proves, that while things are still nasty now, there are pleanty of people within Islam that we can appeal to without lowering ourselves to the barbarity of those stuck in the past.

I think it would be horrible, after two failed attempts to correct Islam in Irag and Afghanistan, to be viewed once again as imperial invaders.

I think the age of the internet will do more for humanity than weapons will, theirs or ours.

You keep complaining about and obvious problem. What would you do if you had the power to end their hate of the west?

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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My point is to lead instead

My point is to lead instead of beating the shit out of others.

Humans will always be violent, and will be when the gods of Abraham are relegated to myth in the future, like the dead gods of the past.

Whatever the solution, "tit for tat" based on labels does nothing to minimize human suffering. The west didn't say, "Hey they slammed planes into buildings so they must be right and Allah does exist".

I think what is missing is a total understanding of human history and human psychology. Hitler's rising was understandable, no matter HOW horrible. When any group lacks resources, or feels threatened it will react.

We did it after 9/11 and they are no less human than we are. No one should justify the indoctrination and abuse of their citizenry anymore than we condone the abuse of Kim Jong Ill on his people. But other than knocking the entire world back into the stone age with a 3rd world war, what would you suggest?

I DO NOT think most humans set out to be violent. I think they will protect their way of life just as we do ours and will defend it, just like we do. THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM RIGHT, just a mere recognition that humans are subject to the same behaviors because we are the same species.

I think we should attack ALL dogmatism with our voices, and I think we should reach out to ALL humans, regardless of label, who are open to being free from the fear that their respective leaders might sell.

FEAR is what you are reacting to, and while the problem IS real, just like the threat of drowning, PANIC will cause you to drown, rather than a slow tread. The Muslims who want to dominate the west are not thinking short term, and I don't think we should either.

Winning a war of ideas is generational. Many of the founders wanted to end slavery THEN, but it took generations to end it, and even longer to get where we are today. Change does not happen over night and panic wont help the world. BOTH Muslims and Christians are chomping at the bit to blow up the world and shout "SEE, MY DADDY WON AND KICKED YOUR ASS",  I don't see how adding more violence will solve the problem.

Whatever the solution, I think we need to take the moral high ground in not lowering ourselves to their level. I think we should ridicule and blaspheme ALL absurd claims and all people wanting to use violence as a political solution. I don't think we should ever back off of that.

But I wont, as a human being, EVER pass a car accident where someone is bleeding to death and ask them their political or religious views. I think when we combine that message with our blasphemy, we will win long term.

I think it is better to undermine those who resort to violence, by rising above their behavior. No one said it would be easy and there will not be an over night solution. But I am not as negative as you seem to be.

I can take the way atheists were treated in 01 vs today, and while still missunderstood, things are far better for us. But in opening that voice for us, what I did not advocate nor ever will, is violence because others wish me ill.

I think there ARE plenty in the east that we can appeal to. They may not have enough power right now, but the cracks in dogmatism and political tribalism are there, and we should exploit that.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Atheistextremist
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Gee

 

Mia2011 wrote:

"The fact this stuff is still allowed to be printed in good society just kills me."

So just what is good society? In fact, what is good? The majority of muslims believe that the hatred towards and destruction of non-believers is part of what makes a society good, and in fact, this is their aim for the whole world. So on what basis do you condemn them?

I am surprised that you are surprised. 

 

 

Mia, pull your head out of your arse. Sure, 'good society' is broadly subjective but it does not take much lateral input from your brain to comprehend that a doctrine that oppresses its people and calls for unbelievers to die is not good. You are either arguing for the sake of it or you are an idiot.

What surprises me is that in the face of an ideology utterly at odds with our own, our governments allow muslim immigration.

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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This is my thread

 

Mia2011 wrote:

What has your little rant got to do with the subject of these posts? Was that supposed to be your rational response? You know, your user name alone indicates that you are a fanatic in your own right. How ironic.

 

and I posted it because a muslim policeman jumped on a train and shouting the name of Allah, murdered christians. I don't particularly like christians but I don't want to kill them.

My rant against islam is what this entire thread is about. There's nothing irrational about being uncomfortable with the thought of living in country full of people whose religious doctrine calls for your death.

My user name indicates that I am a passionate opponent of theism and I have a sense of humour. I lack the irrational zeal required for fanaticism.

Finally, you have no comprehension of the meaning of the word 'irony'. The word you were looking for is 'coincidental' and in this instance it does not apply. 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck