Making oil from plastics

Ken G.
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Making oil from plastics

       This machine could change the world !!! I've tried to embed the video,but I can't find the tool icon on my screen,I'll try to type it out in the link bar.O'well,it seems that the link bar don't work either,so I'll type it out here --- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGGabrorRS8


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There are several such

There are several such inventions in the world, last time I heard one was in USA. It's quite simple, just boil the plastic or rubber in hot water under pressure and it will split polymers on petrol. Depending on how much electronics and regulations you put into it, the better it is, but even a kitchen pressure cooker will suffice.
Most notably, one family friend developed a portable unit capable of this depolymerization process. It was a middle-sized trailer on two wheels, in which you could put plastic bottles cut to pieces and the output was heat (40 KW I think), electricity (20 KW) and CO2. He used some special jets for gasoline vapors, so the burning was extra clean and efficient.

But, to produce this he founded a company and he used the value of the patent itself as a founding capital. Because he had it evaluated quite generously, his company suddenly appeared like fourth richest in national trade register, that got him attention. This man was quite an idealist, anti-monopoly, anti-oil-lobby, he would never sell his invention, he wanted to produce it and sell it to as many people as possible. 

But, the oil lobby did two things. They paid another evaluator to evaluate his invention on about 1/10 of the previous value. And then they sued him for illegal enrichment, and that he wanted to sell the patent for the original high price. He escaped and was hiding for some time, he was even in TV where he demonstrated the depolymerization process for the reporters. It doesn't only work with plastics, but also with biologic waste like sawdust.
But eventually the police got him and now he's sitting in jail. So much for freedom, science, new sources of energy and free market.

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 And this surprises who?

 And this surprises who? Yeah plastic is made from oil, it isn't that big a leap to think we could change it back. The only question is why go through the effort when it is so cheap to get it out of the ground? We could also squeeze oil out of shale rock. There is a lot of oil in the world for us to use. I thought you were someone who wanted us to stop using oil?  

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Beyond Saving wrote:who wanted us to stop using oil ?

     Well,first off this is no real surprise,duh.What I was referring to was the ease in which this process makes oil from trash ! In my opinion that is killing two birds with one stone. I'm not one that wants us to stop using oil all together,I think that it is used for a lot of unnecessary things in our society. Scientist rate civilizations on "their way of using resources",and when your still using oil for a lot of our energy needs,it puts us at 0 . Being as technology has showed,energy can be derived from many sources,but due to financial intervention by Big Oil,our needs are not in their interest,only theirs.So we still use their commodity,as the Earth atmosphere heats up.    

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 I just don't see any real

 I just don't see any real changes occurring until oil becomes expensive enough to make it worthwhile. When a bum can go around collecting plastic and turn it in for enough cash to get booze like they do with aluminum cans it will make a difference. Until then, I don't see the machine really catching on except perhaps by governments who will happily spend $10 million a piece on them. We will use oil until we run low on it or someone finds a way to create an energy source that is cheaper. Damn oil companies, making their product so cheap. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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While looking through my new

While looking through my new yarn catalog last night, I discovered that they are making yarn from recycled plastic. Advertised as 'eco-friendly' and with a higher retail price than the other synthetic yarns.

There is also yarn from recycled cotton and processed corn called Cot 'n Corn. Yarn from bamboo is a big seller with the younger crowd, too.

Buying eco-friendly is a nice idea but, until they find an economical way to recycle plastic, I won't buy it.

'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein


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 OK, am I the only person

 OK, am I the only person who sees the bullshit here?

 

Seriously, at 2:50, he claims that if you burn 1 kg of plastic, it will produce 3kg of carbon dioxide. His assertion to the contrary not outstanding, for general purposes, matter can be neither created nor destroyed.

 

Also, I am certain that the heat the machine needs to melt the plastic comes from the machine being plugged into the wall. It requires energy to run the thing and that energy has to be generated somewhere using some technology that probably pollutes the environment in some way. As will the eventual burning of the oil when it is used to make more energy.

 

Actually, it is not making energy. You can't get something from nothing. What is happening here is that the energy that is coming from the electrical outlet is being used, rather inefficiently, to produce the oil. In fact, he has discovered nothing that big oil did not already know about. It is called thermal cracking and it is used in refineries the world over to turn heavier form of oil into lighter ones.

 

It is an established process. Big oil has to burn a certain portion of the good stuff to turn the bad stuff good. If you really think that the price at the gas pump is too damned high, then let big oil do just exactly what it used to, which is to dump the part that they have no use for into the nearest river. The price at the pump will drop by 50%.

 

Of course that would not be good for the environment. The fact not withstanding that before they started drilling for oil, it bubbled up out of the ground just like in the opening to the beverly hillbillies. Granted that the rate at which we pour through oil today is far more than the environment could handle but it is a serious mistake to say that any oil on the ground is bad for the environment.

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Answers in Gene Simmons

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Seriously, at 2:50, he claims that if you burn 1 kg of plastic, it will produce 3kg of carbon dioxide. His assertion to the contrary not outstanding, for general purposes, matter can be neither created nor destroyed.

 

Plastic is mostly carbon- atomic number 6, and a little hydrogen.

Oxygen is the other component in CO2, and comes from the atmosphere during combustion.  Oxygen- atomic number 8 is not only heavier than carbon, but the atom is dominant in the CO2 molecule by a factor of two.

 

 

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:
Also, I am certain that the heat the machine needs to melt the plastic comes from the machine being plugged into the wall. It requires energy to run the thing and that energy has to be generated somewhere using some technology that probably pollutes the environment in some way. As will the eventual burning of the oil when it is used to make more energy.

 

He said it requires electricity, though if it's well insulated it could be substantially less than the energy obtained from the oil.

 

His point was that, rather than throwing it away (particularly in these third world countries), the plastic can be used as fuel, displacing virgin oil which would have the be imported, and resolving the waste disposal problem that some small or undeveloped countries face.

 

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:
Actually, it is not making energy. You can't get something from nothing. What is happening here is that the energy that is coming from the electrical outlet is being used, rather inefficiently, to produce the oil. In fact, he has discovered nothing that big oil did not already know about. It is called thermal cracking and it is used in refineries the world over to turn heavier form of oil into lighter ones.

 

I don't think he has claimed anything to the contrary.  He's cracking the plastic back into oil so it can be used for energy presumably more efficiently than burning the plastic.

 

What I would be interested in is a side-by-side comparison of the efficiency of the machine plus the resultant oil, compared with burning the plastic directly using a sterling engine to produce whatever work is desired.  Since the oil is liquid (and becomes gas quite easily), my guess is that the improved fuel-air mixture of the more volatile oil would allow higher temperatures and improve efficiency over a solid fuel burn.  It's probably enough to make up for the electricity, though I'm skeptical of the costs of these machines that do the job; they have to hold high pressure and have very efficient insulation- cheaping out there could not only be wasteful, but dangerous.


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 Well, it must have been a

 Well, it must have been a homer because I heard the pitcher say DOH!

 

OK, I stand corrected on that much.

 

Still, it is a fairly inefficient process that, if it was worth doing, the huge oil corporations already knew about. If it could be brought to market at a reasonable price, they would be on it like white on rice.

 

As it happens, the Japanese have a “free energy” thing going on that makes American conspiracy nutters seem like amateurs. Which they, of course, are but that fails to mitigate the basic fact that there are lots of Japanese people making bullshit claims of free energy.

 

Still, the machine needs to be plugged in to the wall to work. The energy one might get from the oil is not free. It is, in fact, so expensive that nobody with a shred of financial responsibility has even a slight interest.    

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Why did this get moved

Why did this get moved here?  I generally only hang out in general, so I probably won't reply to this again on my own.  If for some reason this turns into a more interesting discussion and I'm 'needed', somebody will have to ping me.

 

 

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Still, it is a fairly inefficient process that, if it was worth doing, the huge oil corporations already knew about. If it could be brought to market at a reasonable price, they would be on it like white on rice.

 

Well, the latter is more of the issue.  The issue is that this requires more manual sorting and such than would probably be worth the cost.

That's not to say it's any more difficult to put the plastic in this thing rather than the trash were it in your own home, and it probably is ultimately feasible in Africa.  Of course, in the latter case the cost of the machine itself is going to be the limiting factor, and as I mentioned before, it probably wouldn't be cheap.  However, it could be like solar panels, and be donated for humanitarian purposes to get a steady supply of fuel for a school or hospital.

This will likely remain a niche product.

 

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

As it happens, the Japanese have a “free energy” thing going on that makes American conspiracy nutters seem like amateurs. Which they, of course, are but that fails to mitigate the basic fact that there are lots of Japanese people making bullshit claims of free energy.

 

 

I was skeptical when I saw it was some old Japanese guy, but the science is legit and this guy seems to know what he's talking about, plus or minus accuracy for translation.  If he gets the cost down, this could be very helpful to the third world (who don't mind sorting garbage all day for a few liters of surplus oil).

The important thing to learn from this is to not evaluate claims before you actually listen to them Eye-wink


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Yeah, what a new

Yeah, what a new invention.
Fuel From Plastic volume one - Let There Be Liquid: 

 

Fuel From Plastic volume two - The Tribulation of Tires

 

Fuel From Plastic volume three - More Than Plastic

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Ken G.
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Luminon wrote: Fuel from Plastic :let there be liquid

     Thanks for posting the whole process, I'm going to visit that place, I live in Philly,but I have never heard of this place until now.    It (the second video) is to hard for me to watch (i don't speak Japanese) and watching just the pictures help,but it is still very annoying.

 

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Answers in Gene Simmons

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 Well, it must have been a homer because I heard the pitcher say DOH!

 

Here you go:  http://www.flixxy.com/zero-pollution-automobile.htm

 

Enjoy tearing it to pieces.

(I thought you could use a chew toy, there's something that's Blake certified bullshit for ya Eye-wink )

 

I'll have to resign from the forum for a time, because I'm spending too much time posting and I need to get things done.  I should be back next month-ish, I suspect.