Pituitary gland (hypophysis)

Luminon
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Pituitary gland (hypophysis)

This little endocrinologic thing is quite puzzling me lately. (well, more than a year, possibly several years) I've been doing translation correcture of certain occult book on healing by Master Djwhal Khul and there were emphasized certain relationships between these glands in head and the rest of body. Lots of technical information, but most generally said, the principle is following:

We have etheric body with chakras and nadis (meridians), which supplies the physical body with vital forces and other stimuli.
The meridians loosely correspond to nerve system. The seven main chakras are directly related to seven main endocrine glands, in this order: pineal gland, pituitary gland, thyroid gland, thymus, pancreas, gonads, adrenals.
Chakras and nadis directly vitalize the glands and determine their ability to function properly or usually not, with most of people.
Energy follows thought. This basic occult statement can be applied also here. Let's say that the following might be happening:
Thought -> subtle energy -> etheric body -> energetic centre (chakra, etc) -> corresponding endocrine gland -> release of hormons, endorphines, who knows if science knows what -> change of mood, perception, metabolism, and mainly, mystical OR ecstatic states of consciousness (do not confuse)

Well, I used to get myself quite high, and given right music on top of that, wow, what a trip that was. Who needs drugs, we are the drugs. With (im)proper stimulation, my forehead chakra was gaping wide open about 10 cm across, and this being a vortex, it was feeling like having a solid whirpool stabbed and spinning into your head from the front, plus the extreme trippy feeling. Well, I stopped that years ago, because such practices may fuck you up or make you faint if you push the wrong spot. Or at least give you a bad headache plus an equally unpleasant but to muggle-borns hardly describable feeling of having over-energetized chakras.

So paying as little attention to these sensitive centres and glands as possible (which is about as easy as NOT thinking about a pink rhino, as Osho said) I alleviate some strain out of my sorely tried nerve system. But the etheric body has a life of it's own. As an individual progresses on spiritual journey, more  functions of it are accessed and then something always gets fucked up, because the inhabitant can not use them properly yet. But through hard work the irregular progress is made and centers and glands learn to work together synchronously.

The most intense daily activity seems to be in my ajna chakra and corresponding hypophysis gland. I can feel the gland on its right place in my head, full of pressing, throbbing and squirming energies supplied by the chakra itself, which gives a similar feeling. Energy follows thought. With discovery and uprooting of vices and unconscious senseless behavior and support of meaningful, intentional behavior there comes a change of thinking and therefore a change in distribution of energy in the centers. (plus I helped it by certain special woo practices) Ajna chakra has a lot to be re-wired and re-distributed, no wonder it is strained and its corresponding endocrine gland too.

Now, I guess I should ask what is the science thinking. People can not feel their endocrine glands hidden in head, because there are no tactile nerves leading there? People can not control functions of their endocrine system by focused thought? Physically realistic hallucinations can come from nowhere and afflict anybody for no reason at all? People secretly desire to have strange feelings even if it's rather unpleasant, and so unconscious wishful thinking somehow causes the feelings to appear in exactly the appropriante places of endocrine glands and energetic centers?
So far, I asked one my friend who's a student of pharmacology and he never heard that anyone would be able to feel their hypophysis or affect it by thought.

I am quite inspired by DK's words in the end of the book:
[Disciples]...they first shall cooperate with doctors and advise them on relationships of centers and glands, and therefore with body as a whole. Through concentration and regular meditation performed in centers of head and directed towards it or other center, the disciples will demonstrate so definitive changes of endocrine glands, that they will convince doctors about a meaning and real existence of the centers, and their power, also they will convince about the possibility of controlling the physical body through a power of thought.

Sorry for the lots of text, but I must admit, it bores the hell out of me how you rationalists lately just beat a dead horse with Mak Thorpe and rehash the Bible all the time. Yeah, I know that religion is not a dead horse, it's an undead zombie horse that bites people and makes them zombies too, but you got the point.

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So you'd rather we beat your

So you'd rather we beat your dead horse?

 

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Luminon
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mellestad wrote:So you'd

mellestad wrote:

So you'd rather we beat your dead horse?

 

Yes but my horse isn't dead, it is, as Baudelaire would say, more alive than it ever was, by the mass of worms devouring it in afternoon heat

No, seriously, it's an exciting discussion on the endocrinology. My hypophysis really high-strung all day long, regardless if that's medically possible or not. Perhaps it will obey someone's skeptical authority and calm down.

 

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Well...

Being neither an endocrinologist nor a follower of Master Djwhal Khul, the thought occurs to me that perhaps you are not posting this in the right kind of forum. But, what do I know? I'm just a musician.


connerman
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Tadgh wrote:Being neither an

Tadgh wrote:

Being neither an endocrinologist nor a follower of Master Djwhal Khul, the thought occurs to me that perhaps you are not posting this in the right kind of forum. But, what do I know? I'm just a musician.

Fear not Tadgh, being a musician is a much better qualifier than say, a politician.  Music can be as truthful as math.

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Honestly Luminon, I can't

Honestly Luminon, I can't imagine a rational conversation coming out of this, since you just asked about your gaping chakra.  Other than saying, "That sounds dirty *snort*" I don't have much to say without going all the way down to the placebo effect, confirmation bias and how the need to reduce dissonance eventually leads to complete self delusion.

 

Maybe you could send a tell to MichaelMcF, he seemed to enjoy conversations like these.

 

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cj
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@op

Hmmmm.....

I have read that your mental state affects your hormones which affects your mental state which effects your hormones...

It's a big feed back loop.

So what some of the therapists I have been to try to do is break that loop.  There are lots of techniques.

Positive self-talk - as in - "I am beautiful (handsome), I am witty, I am successful."  Well, toss that one out.

Positive imagery - as in - imagine yourself on a lovely lonely beach and the person of your dreams walks up naked and - never mind.

Behavioral therapy - as in - Get up off your ass and fix a nice dinner and NOT some frozen pizza!  And set the table, don't eat at the counter!

Stuff like that.  The only one I have had work for me is the behavioral stuff.  If I feel depressed, I get up, get showered, and get busy.  Pretty soon I'm too tired to be depressed.

Some of this sounds similar to what you are talking about.  We can influence our feelings and it is related to our hormone levels. 

Most of what you said sounded to me like self hypnosis.

 

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mellestad wrote:Honestly

mellestad wrote:

Honestly Luminon, I can't imagine a rational conversation coming out of this, since you just asked about your gaping chakra.  Other than saying, "That sounds dirty *snort*" I don't have much to say without going all the way down to the placebo effect, confirmation bias and how the need to reduce dissonance eventually leads to complete self delusion.

Maybe you could send a tell to MichaelMcF, he seemed to enjoy conversations like these.

What exactly is a limit of placebo effect or confirmation bias? Can a delusion be as real as a regular nerve input from things around us? AFAIK, delusions thrive on the fact, that people accept weak feelings and make assumptions on them because they wish it to be true. So that would mean, that people who strongly and realistically perceive something without wishing for it in advance, are not deluded.
Really, that is a serious and intriguing philosophic problem. The problem of observation vs. delusion. Science is a man-made area of known facts and it is interesting how tenaciously people prefer to dismiss unknown observations for trivial reasons instead of acknowledging that they need to be studied.

I never did any effort to imagine anything, it was all too easy and automatic. But I'd welcome if my hypophysis would stop pressing, squirming, throbbing and so on. It's not painful, but a little unpleasant and distracting. On top of that, it feels like it would shine or radiate something and also I hear a characteristic extremely high-pitched sound. Quite interesting, isn't it? If people here can share their health problems, why couldn't I?

I could at least find out more about it. You say that normally people are not aware of their hypophysis? They don't feel that it's there, above the half of oral cavity? They can't stimulate it by turning their attention to it? You say that science is not yet aware of such medical phenomenon? I don't want to come at a university and hear them say to me, "Well, we researched that two years ago, a wonderful revolution in neurology, wasn't it? The doctor got a Nobel price for that and our test participants got a nice fat cheques for their help."

cj wrote:

Hmmmm.....

I have read that your mental state affects your hormones which affects your mental state which effects your hormones...

It's a big feed back loop.

So what some of the therapists I have been to try to do is break that loop.  There are lots of techniques.

Positive self-talk - as in - "I am beautiful (handsome), I am witty, I am successful."  Well, toss that one out.

Positive imagery - as in - imagine yourself on a lovely lonely beach and the person of your dreams walks up naked and - never mind.

Behavioral therapy - as in - Get up off your ass and fix a nice dinner and NOT some frozen pizza!  And set the table, don't eat at the counter!

Stuff like that.  The only one I have had work for me is the behavioral stuff.  If I feel depressed, I get up, get showered, and get busy.  Pretty soon I'm too tired to be depressed.

Some of this sounds similar to what you are talking about.  We can influence our feelings and it is related to our hormone levels. 

Most of what you said sounded to me like self hypnosis.

I think there are two processes. There is something happening with my hypophysis, and then I turn my attention to it which causes the feedback loop.

It's not a hypnosis or emotional problem, you can imagine it like where I turn my attention there is immediately an increased blood flow and pressure, which is unpleasant. Except that this is not a blood, but etheric substance that the etheric double uses instead of blood.
Hypnosis is a state of low threshold of critical thinking when people do things or accept ideas they normally wouldn't. But believe it or not, this IS my normal state. I can turn my attention like light of a flashlight to a section of my body, feel the energy concentrating there, and expect physical consequences, specially if that section is some important gland or nerve centrum. 

Most of the time part of my attention is occupied by the inward etheric perception. This is why I might seem absent-minded, clumsy, daydreaming, etc. If I'd have a regular sexual partner I'd learn to focus only on physical body, but for now I have not much use for the body. Etheric perception is much more interesting. I've even induced feelings of pleasure in parts of body where one would not expect it. Etheric body is a wonderful instrument to control nerve and endocrine system, but playing with it too much is unhealthy. I don't want to boast or anything, but looks like my nerve system allows me to do much more than it normally would to most of people, both for good and bad.

Tadgh wrote:

Being neither an endocrinologist nor a follower of Master Djwhal Khul, the thought occurs to me that perhaps you are not posting this in the right kind of forum. But, what do I know? I'm just a musician.

DK is not a master with followers, "Master" is an abbreviation of "Master of wisdom" which is a title for a person who achieved a certain notable degree of control over himself. He doesn't lead people, he wrote many books through help of Alice A. Bailey and I read some of them.

 

But for the most part, this is a forum of intelligent or intellectual or at least experienced people, who can at least scrap some interesting facts or life experiences from the bottom of their memory. There are various personalities here, various occupations, various cultures, various hobbies, various sexual orientations, veterans of various mental afflictions, what a wonderfully various place it is, when they're not rehashing Bible momentarily Smiling And I'm definitely one of the most various persons here.

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Luminon wrote:mellestad

Luminon wrote:

mellestad wrote:

Honestly Luminon, I can't imagine a rational conversation coming out of this, since you just asked about your gaping chakra.  Other than saying, "That sounds dirty *snort*" I don't have much to say without going all the way down to the placebo effect, confirmation bias and how the need to reduce dissonance eventually leads to complete self delusion.

Maybe you could send a tell to MichaelMcF, he seemed to enjoy conversations like these.

What exactly is a limit of placebo effect or confirmation bias? Can a delusion be as real as a regular nerve input from things around us? AFAIK, delusions thrive on the fact, that people accept weak feelings and make assumptions on them because they wish it to be true. So that would mean, that people who strongly and realistically perceive something without wishing for it in advance, are not deluded.
Really, that is a serious and intriguing philosophic problem. The problem of observation vs. delusion. Science is a man-made area of known facts and it is interesting how tenaciously people prefer to dismiss unknown observations for trivial reasons instead of acknowledging that they need to be studied.

I never did any effort to imagine anything, it was all too easy and automatic. But I'd welcome if my hypophysis would stop pressing, squirming, throbbing and so on. It's not painful, but a little unpleasant and distracting. On top of that, it feels like it would shine or radiate something and also I hear a characteristic extremely high-pitched sound. Quite interesting, isn't it? If people here can share their health problems, why couldn't I?

I could at least find out more about it. You say that normally people are not aware of their hypophysis? They don't feel that it's there, above the half of oral cavity? They can't stimulate it by turning their attention to it? You say that science is not yet aware of such medical phenomenon? I don't want to come at a university and hear them say to me, "Well, we researched that two years ago, a wonderful revolution in neurology, wasn't it? The doctor got a Nobel price for that and our test participants got a nice fat cheques for their help."

Well, the limit of the placebo effect is pretty high, and as far as delusions go, it depends.  The point being that observations cannot be de-facto trusted unless they can be replicated in a controlled environment.

 

My issue here is if your claim is falsifiable or not, or rather, if you would accept any measure of falsification.  You talk about your glands, then you talk about your gaping chakra.  If I say you can't 'really' feel your gland and point out a lack of sensing nerve endings in the region, you'll take that as confirmation that you have yet another mystical power others seem to lack.  If I say there is an alternate explanation, like many pot smokers feel the same way and try to find a physiological reason for that, you can just claim that pot opens other people's chakras too, which is more proof that there is something mystical going on.  I could point out that the gland does not have any muscle tissue, so "squirming' is not really a possibility.  I don't think your body can detect when other organs secrete fluids, otherwise we'd all feel all sorts of crazy stuff.  But you might just say, again, that must mean you're more special than most people and you *can* feel it.

 

Essentially, I see this as a lose-lose scenario unless you can define the falsifiability of your claims.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:Well, the

mellestad wrote:

Well, the limit of the placebo effect is pretty high, and as far as delusions go, it depends.  The point being that observations cannot be de-facto trusted unless they can be replicated in a controlled environment.

Well, subjectively my observations can't be trusted or mistrusted - they just are, and are real as any other nerve input that my senses give me. But from what I heard, delusions are either limited in intensity, or limited in time (don't last long or don't last all the time) or they otherwise are accompanied by serious pathologic states of mind or body.

 

mellestad wrote:
My issue here is if your claim is falsifiable or not, or rather, if you would accept any measure of falsification.
I think it is too early for falsification, first we should focus on classification. Obviously, I can't falsify a personal observation, that would be possible only by admitting that everything is a 100% lie. So if the observation is real, the question is how much the causes of it are currently measurable.

mellestad wrote:

 You talk about your glands, then you talk about your gaping chakra.  If I say you can't 'really' feel your gland and point out a lack of sensing nerve endings in the region, you'll take that as confirmation that you have yet another mystical power others seem to lack.  If I say there is an alternate explanation, like many pot smokers feel the same way and try to find a physiological reason for that, you can just claim that pot opens other people's chakras too, which is more proof that there is something mystical going on.  I could point out that the gland does not have any muscle tissue, so "squirming' is not really a possibility.  I don't think your body can detect when other organs secrete fluids, otherwise we'd all feel all sorts of crazy stuff.  But you might just say, again, that must mean you're more special than most people and you *can* feel it.
I don't mean I actually feel the gland itself working or secreting fluids. The gland I feel is somewhat bigger than it should be, and it's doesn't have sharp boundaries, it's rather like a tangible glare from that place. What I feel is etheric counterpart of it, not the gland itself. Fortunately I don't peruse my cranial cavities with etheric perception, just a little of the etheric double which is somewhat simplier. It has an overall simplicity of electronic appliance, compared to the complexity of cellular bio-chemical machine of physical body.

I presume, that the gland is stimulated by the activity of its etheric counterpart and the chakra, so I should be able to stimulate the gland. To what extent, I don't know. There should be differences in activity of the gland, different hormone levels in brain chemistry, etc. Plus, there might be a substantial difference in certain kinds of brain activity, a difference between person with etheric perception and without it. Maybe it is a mystical power but it's among the least mystical of them all and therefore most measurable.

mellestad wrote:
  Essentially, I see this as a lose-lose scenario unless you can define the falsifiability of your claims.

Yes, if you strive to prove or die, it is a lose-lose scenario. But there are many questions to be asked before you even know what to prove. What is a professional's attitude toward such things? How to exclude mental disease as a cause? How to gain a researcher's attention? How to keep one's anonymity and medical chart safe from potentially compromising records? How to become a privileged and paid participant on neurologic and endocrinologic research?  Guess there's no workaround around that, someone should invent a new scientific method that will really get things done. It should start like, 'go to a bar where scientists hang out and buy one several drinks till he softens up and becomes more open-minded about a new line of research...' Smiling


 

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Well, I would advise against

Well, I would advise against bringing up your third and fourth paragraphs.

 

To get a researchers attention you'd have to have an idea about some sort of study, that usually means more than one individual.  So either find a group of unrelated people with squirmy glands, or find someone already doing a study.  Or you'd need to actually make a falsifiable claim and be willing to back it up.

 

Your main problem is that these sorts of researchers usually feel they have better things to spend their time and money on.  Every time someone studies this stuff it turns out to be false.  One more study probably wouldn't even get a doctoral student through their thesis.

---------------------

Reading my new Psychology book it had a good anecdote about James Randi.  He asked a aura viewer if they could see his aura surrounding his face, they said yes.  He put a magazine in front of his face and asked if they could still see the aura, they said of course.  Then he asks if they will be able to track his location after he steps behind a thin board a tiny bit taller than he is.  Lol.

---------------------

Seriously though, your best bet is bored university medical students, or maybe psychological students.  I couldn't even Google up a relevant paper.  Careful how you broach the subject though, because, "I feel my brain squirming and I think it is caused by my engorged chakras." sounds pretty damned crazy.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:Well, I

mellestad wrote:

Well, I would advise against bringing up your third and fourth paragraphs. 

To get a researchers attention you'd have to have an idea about some sort of study, that usually means more than one individual.  So either find a group of unrelated people with squirmy glands, or find someone already doing a study.  Or you'd need to actually make a falsifiable claim and be willing to back it up. 

Your main problem is that these sorts of researchers usually feel they have better things to spend their time and money on.  Every time someone studies this stuff it turns out to be false.  One more study probably wouldn't even get a doctoral student through their thesis.

Dammit, I wonder how that's possible. What are they doing wrong? Don't say choosing the subject of research Smiling

mellestad wrote:

Reading my new Psychology book it had a good anecdote about James Randi.  He asked a aura viewer if they could see his aura surrounding his face, they said yes.  He put a magazine in front of his face and asked if they could still see the aura, they said of course.  Then he asks if they will be able to track his location after he steps behind a thin board a tiny bit taller than he is.  Lol.

Well, I don't know many aura-seeing people. They are pretty rare around here. I can see aura just like anybody, the white-glowing layer around people that sometimes flows a little away almost like smoke, if they don't move. But for that they must stand 2 meters from white wall and the light mustn't be very strong. Then if I or any other  person concentrate real hard, I can see the most plain, basic view of white aura outline with no details. Once I looked like that in lecture audience and I saw all people in front of me with auras around them, not just the guy in the front. But I know how diffcult it is and I have no idea if that requires to see the person to get a proper focus. Did that man claim to see the aura without seeing the person?

mellestad wrote:
Seriously though, your best bet is bored university medical students, or maybe psychological students.  I couldn't even Google up a relevant paper.  Careful how you broach the subject though, because, "I feel my brain squirming and I think it is caused by my engorged chakras." sounds pretty damned crazy.
You're right, students are probably the best bet. Specially when last year many doctors left the country, looks like 30-50 from every hospital. But when it comes to money, it looks to me like this part of science needs a lot of social engineering. I actually need to become a friend of a student, exchange ideas and so on, to make him interested to invest money, time and possibly an opportunity of master's or doctor's graduation work.

It is in such a great contrast to how simple is the scientific method described. I have a friend, he's an engineer and he does some private technologic research on his own. He has a trouble drowning his expenses in the company's bills. Every single test costs money and most of them are unsuccesful. If he does tests, his money fly out of the window. The only help is a simulating software but that's expensive and he wants to research some material properties which are not yet well described nor simulated. So I sort of know what a nuisance it is. That's what gets me so suspicious of the whole scientific method business. It's so simple that children can do it, yet so diffcult and expensive that a stranger in the field cannot make a breakthrough, not when expensive technology is involved. So it's not that simple after all, scientific method is a pretty idea but implementing it into reality is very diffcult even for professionals.

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