Well, I used to know a guy who was into ghost hunting. I really doubt that he could have explained why it has to happen at night. I do know that he could not tell me why certain places, such as abandoned houses and the like were candidate locations.

 

I also got from him that the choices mad for the various sensors is based not on some set of specific ideas of what should be detectable around ghosts but rather based on what can be had for relatively little money. Apparently, there is no theory that holds that ghosts should cause disturbances in local gravity that would require a $20,000 lab grade instrument to detect. Either that or there is just no theory one way or the other. I tend to think the latter.

 

That much being said, we are also talking about a TV show. I guarantee that the producers know exactly what keeps viewers tuned in across the commercial breaks.

Luminon hacked into Blake's account!

LOL.

I got to admit, until I got to the end and saw "pseudo-science bullshit" I was a little worried there for a second.

But Blake, you forgot quantum resonance and dark matter string vibration!

 

It's possible that Blake has waaay too much time on his hands. Seriously though, great response to my "Ghost Post".

Your argument is that *people* avoid these things and aren't observant during the day?  That's nonsense.

People will work whenever they can.  The reason these mediums practice at night is because there's more available energy- because their practices only work effectively at night.

What kind of magical world do you live in where energy just comes from nowhere?  It doesn't come from the vacuum- energy from nothing?  A violation of not only the most basic laws pf physics, but of every reality. 

And I can also guarantee you that the spirit realm isn't about to waste useful energy the way humans do- the idea that mediums and ghosts can pull energy from there is just insulting; these are lesser beings by billions of orders of magnitude, and they aren't capable of leeching energy from more powerful beings.  That's NOT a source of energy for them. 

 

The source of energy is ignorant humans who are wasting their psychic energy by letting it leek out everywhere (granted, most of it is waste energy, but some would be reabsorbed if ghosts and spirits didn't take it, which is why spirits can be harmful).  In fact, it's the foundation for the spritual food chain.  Like it or not, we are the autotrophs, bringing psychic energy into the spirit world like transistors from the physical.

Sun -> plants -> humans -> psychic energy -> ghosts and spirits (this food chain is much longer, so I won't go into it here)

 

 

 

Etheric matter?  Seriously?  You don't know that *all* matter is etheric?  It's all part of the ether.  Saying something is just ether is like saying it's just space; that doesn't make sense.  Ghosts aren't etheric matter, they're ectoplasmic, which is precisely the opposite of etheric matter; it's non-matter/dark matter (not real matter at all, but empty matter) which influences only pure energies (which in turn influences normal matter, which is etheric).  There's only one kind of real matter, and that is normal matter, which is etheric.  Dark matter is also etheric, it's just not matter (it's the lack of matter).

And astral matter?  There can't be any matter in the astral region because it lacks ether; that's a domain of pure energy- and very chaotic.  You're talking nonsense here.

Ghosts, as physical manifestations, aren't astral in any way- it's just the source that can be more astral (being free/removed from the ether) until it manifests (though generally ghosts avoid the astral space when they can).  When they manifest as ectoplasmic, they become rooted, and so are not longer properly astral in any sense- they are in etheric space.  Astral is just the quality of being unrooted into non-etheric space (astral projection isn't really astral, it's just etheric).   Matter can not be unrooted, as it depends on the ether- only energy can be.

 

Anyway, to discover ghosts, all we'd have to have is consistent reports- somebody able to consistently sense them.  The reason we can't do that is because they don't want to be discovered.  The only time they communicate is when we force them; they don't want to draw attention.  Remember, ghosts are pretty low on the spiritual food chain, and in particular, detection could result in humans using more of the energy and becoming aware of the spiritual world, which would be very bad news for the higher beings- they will deliberately sabotage this at all costs, being a risk to the source of their energy.  It's why gods ended the age of magic (YHWH and other carnivorous spirit beings, issuing edicts against witchcraft to STOP people from using the energy they want to consume).

 

 

Your ignorance is amusing, but forgivable.  Your false esoteric knowledge, after all, has been seeded by spirits with clear agendas.

You really think they'd tell you the truth about where their source of energy is coming from?  Better to selectively trickle it back down to humans to give them the impression that they don't hold the power in the relationship (by being the only ones with ultimate control over the sole conduit of psychic energy).

 

The real scoop is that *all* energy transfer is by quantum resonance (don't even try to argue that), and that the source of energy is and always has been living beings such as humans.  That's why ghosts and spirits are locally active at night, that's why gods issue demands against witchcraft and sorcery, that's even why gods crave worship (it's a vampiric kind of relationship, feeding on the psychic energy of will- ever wonder why Christians and other theists seem to lose their free wills?  Yeah, that's why.), and most importantly why they lure in souls with their famed white lights at the end of the tunnel (the foolish souls don't realize they're food).

It's a great gig they have going on, and humans do all the heavy lifting themselves- the spirits just set it in place.  They don't want to shake up the status quo by allowing the truth to spread.

As an esotericist, you may even have watchful lesser spirits that have a hold on your will and/or are actively working to keep you in the dark, so, you're probably literally incapable of breaking free and mustering enough free will to actually consider what I'm saying as true.  You'll have a feeling, or some kind of urge to disbelieve what I say.  If you're strong enough, you might be able to break it (if the spirits have underestimated you and sent guardians who were too weak to hold you)- I find it unlikely, though.  Give it a try and let me know.

 

Esotericism has something similar to this almost right, but that's only because it was very obvious.  In deceiving humanity, the spirits had to craft an esoteric system that would be believable and not outright seen as false, so they had to include certain things like this (while reversing the most important fact- that humans hold the source of energy, and not the other way around).

Particularly, as ghosts and spirits often manifest inadvertently in dreams when they are feeding on human psychic energy (establishing a resonance has that unintended side effect, and is almost unavoidable), it ultimately had to be explained because there was no hiding that correlation.  They just reversed the causation, in a sense.

 

This is complicated, but both string theory and esotericism are wrong on the subject.  It's actually a deliberately constructed metaphysical dead-end, devised relatively recently.  Once science (and the spirits are working to influence the experiments to "prove" this false theory) and esotericism overlap, the spirits will have quite effectively convinced everybody of their desired beliefs.

The thing is, it's NOT quite the same as what you're thinking, dark matter is the stuff that fills in the ether where matter is lacking- composes the ether. It's not real matter, but a kind of un-matter; the nomenclature is deceptive.  So everything that isn't matter in the plane of the ether has it's place occupied by dark matter- manifests using it when not in the astral plane (which ghosts try to stay out of).  By saying they are dark matter strings, well, that is saying they aren't matter.

As matter moves around, it changes dark matter into matter, while the matter in its wake is converted back into dark matter.  It's a transference of information from cell to cell of ether space, and dark matter represents "empty" cells.  These empty cells can't move or have any of the normal properties of matter because they have no information to shove around into new cells (they can't, for example, influence matter in any way because of it).  However, because these cells are empty and take cues from information, they can be confused with psychic energy into resonating and - for example- form ectoplasmic energy (which is very much like light, but exists in a stable location- it can even degrade *into* light if the spirit loses hold of a string accidentally or deliberately). 

When photons enter those cells with a higher energy than the spirit is using, though, it crashes the resonance by wiping away all the work the ghost has already done on that string (the cell then carries the photon energy across it instead).  Lower energy photons, however, pass under the threshold and don't interrupt it.  This is why UV light, in particular, has a detrimental effect on ectoplasmic formation- it's also why ghosts are cold; because infrared light ends up being completely absorbed when it passes under that threshold and lost (Infrared light being heat energy).

 

Anyway, the point is that this is why ghosts and spirits can only indirectly affect humans; they don't occupy real matter, and our dark matter seat is already fully occupied.  They can't confuse cells filled with normal matter information (so can't affect it). 

I should more accurately, perhaps, say that ghosts (and our own spirits) are bound up in dark matter strings when they move to manifest (out of the astral realm, if they were there prior)- because their esence is pure energy- they energize those strings to produce a resonance that generates the ectoplasm, but as I explained, the "dark matter" doesn't follow them so much as they move through it, plucking on strings as they go. 

Our spirits are also bound up in dark matter, we just can't detach as easy, due to our reliance on the flow of psychic energy from our physical bodies, so we follow around and control our matter (since it has a mind, muscles, etc. that can control it- There's a teeny, tiny speck of useful open dark matter in our pineal gland where we manifest as ectoplasm and generate light by allowing the ectoplasm to decay, which is detected by the pigments in the pineal gland/ third eye, which then sends that information to the brain.  It's our communication channel between brain and soul/spirit- it happens from once every few months (in Christians, Muslims, etc.) to a few times a minute (most people) to many billions of times per second (in the most heightened individuals).

It's one of the reasons astral projection is so dangerous; leaving that seat opens it up to be occupied by other things.  If you've ever tried astral projection (I'm guessing you have, though it doesn't actually leave the ether, otherwise your soul would be eaten), chances are you have at least a few guests with fingers in the pie, who can influence or sabotage your free will; you'd have to be much stronger than they are to force them out or exercise your will when they don't want you to, or in a way they don't want.

These are those guardians I was mentioning earlier, and unless you're significantly powerful as a spirit, chances are you don't believe any of what I'm saying due to their influence.  If you want to overcome them, I can give you some basic instruction, but it's up to you to decide how:

To do this the easy way, in short, you need to generate very high energy ectoplasm, and then release it to create a pulse of UV which will deteriorate their ectoplasm, and then re-establish yours to communicate, and pulse again every time they begin to generate ectoplasm.  You basically have to be faster than they are.  It's actually quite taxing, but it can allow you to think if you do it right. 

To actually remove the spirits from your body, though, is more complicated than just blocking their influences.  They'd need to get bored or frustrated and leave willingly, or your spirit would have to consume their spirits.  However, because we are fed on human psychic energy like milk (which is important, since it protects your own spirit from being consumed while the link is active), doing the latter would be like feeding a steak to a new-born infant-- you just don't have the ability to digest them without working up to it on even weaker spirits, and those spirits aren't about to come when you ring the dinner bell.  You'd have to break the link with your bodily psychic energy and "astrally project" into the dark matter in the ether to find them (the weaker spirits), spending perhaps a few years out of your body while you leave those other spirits in control.. and, of course, your own spirit could be eaten in the process, and that would be the end.  Not ideal.  You can treat the symptoms, though.

 

Anyway, my point is that ghosts are not matter like the physical us- they're empty matter regions (which is like the spirit us).  They're essentially just energy, but they stay in "dark matter" regions because, like small fish which tend to keep in close to the reef where they're less likely to be eaten, they don't swim out into astral space often or they wouldn't be anything anymore (aside from food).  Ghosts are wise to the whole "white light" thing; that's why they managed to stay ghosts, and they can stick around for a good long while as long as they don't attract too much attention, and keep their appetites in check.

 

I will say, if you are powerful enough to resist the domination of your will that the spirits pose, you should at least publicly pretend not to believe this.  You should know spirits can be vindictive, and though even the most powerful can not directly influence reality, some of the most terrible things can be indirect.

I have to pretend not to believe any of this when I talk about it, chalking it up to some silly theories or pseudoscience.  Once when I was younger I foolishly smoke about these things publicly... never again, I don't want to relive that.  As long as I negate everything I say after I say it, though, the spirits seem not to notice/care.

Therefore, obligatory negation:

[/pseudoscience bullshit]

I actually did make the mistake of discussing this in these forums, because a series of things have happened in my current apartment that defy all logical common sense. In fact, the "explanations" provided by the hardcore materialists on this site, far more implausible in my mind than the acceptance that it might be a ghost, were what ultimately proved to me that the across-the-board rejection of anything mystical is one of the major impasses between hardline atheists and myself. Both Hitchens and Dawkins discuss "the transcendent" as a valid aspect of human experience, quite wisely I believe. But the fact of the matter remains that there are things about consciousness, aliveness, the human mind, and death that we just do not understand.

For the record, I also think those shows are completely ridiculous and have very little merit aside from superficial entertainment value.

 

Then your information is clearly wrong. The core of the galaxy happens to be in the general direction of Sagittarius. So that is where things must start. At this time of year, the general alignment is Sagittarius A* (the black hole at the core)>The stars forming the main core>Sagittarius>Sol>Earth.

 

IF you don't get that, then drop by your local observatory on a clear night as close to the end of the public observing session as possible and ask the astronomer to show you M31. That is the Andromeda Galaxy and he will have to point the scope nearly straight up as it is directly overhead at midnight. The fact is that right now, our general place in the solar system is looking straight out of the galaxy at midnight local time.

 

Anyway, my information is that both of you are wrong. Here is the deal:

 

There are a number of different realities. For the major part, they do not really connect to each other but there are variances where connections are possible. The connections are fairly complicated but they have been probed is some detail by those who have the ability to do so.

 

The ancients had developed various schools of thought on the matter based on actual observations and it is seriously unwise to even attempt to make such a probe on one's own as there are dangers out there that, if not properly prepared for can be the end of your existence, not only in this reality but in every other reality as well. Thus, it is seriously beneficial to learn from those who have actually benefited from the ancient knowledge that has been handed down over the centuries.

 

So how does one go about developing connections to the other realities? For the main force of the ancient knowledge, it is a fact that there are specific places in our world that correspond to places in other worlds to some degree. Basically, places where the divisions are low energy points where it is somewhat easier to bridge the gaps to different places.

 

All of the major temples of this world are built on such places. The pyramids (both mesoamerican and middle eastern), Stonehenge, the American Indian holy places even the great cathedrals of Europe. With the knowledge of the ancients, it is as I say, not so hard to bridge the gaps between worlds. Thus all the stories of contact with powerful beings of various natures.

 

Now, it also happens that it is possible to bridge the gaps between worlds in other places, although it clearly requires quite a bit more work to do so. However, with the knowledge of the ancients, it can be done. Some places have lower energy requirements than others and some places have such a large energy requirement that it is probable that nobody have ever bridged the gaps in those places.

 

Even so, what we call ghosts are really travelers from other worlds. They never fully materialize due to the fact that it is that much harder to do so in the places where the gaps are of the nature that it is harder to fully manifest. Even so, they do manage to touch our reality in some limited way.

 

If one were to probe other worlds from our own but from a space where it is not easy to make the connection, then one would be hard pressed to appear in that other world as more than a ghost may appear in our world.

 

That much having been said, it is no small matter to make such journeys. Each world is a real world and each world operates according to the rules for that world. Not all beings in any world are intelligent and even the ones that are will operate in accordance with the world in which they are primarily embedded (essentially the world of their birth).

 

Some beings are what we would call altruistic, some may be benign and others may well be what we tend to lump together as evil. Here it really must be said that evil as such is not really a valid concept. One creature may be atavistic, another may be untamed and others may be ignorant or some other “negative” adjective may be the primary adjective at hand.

 

They are not really evil in the sense that comes down to us in our world. They are what they are and they are simply acting on their nature. That being said, the ancient stories are replete with people “conjuring demons”. What they are really doing is forcing some being from another world into our own. Should it happen that such a being acts in such a way as would be fully moral in the context that it knows, many bad things can happen in our world as a result.

 

Finally, the voice of reason. Thanks Mellestad for cutting through the above gobbledegook.

 

It's interesting to note that The Amazing Randi's million dollars has still not been claimed.

My information is incomplete, the original theosophic schemes show only Sirius as the source. One of seven sacred solar systems in our galaxy. I just added the galaxy core as a supposition for the sake of completeness to avoid more questions from Blake.

 

You suppose wrongly several things. Firstly, that there is a death and physical danger as we know it. You have no reason to suppose that. Secondly, the lose of vehicle of consciousness in one reality does not mean the same for another reality. That's how backups work. The source of consciousness itself is above all and it only projects the consciousness into the vehicles like into light filters.

 

I know such places and I know people who are delighted to visit them. These places are mostly overrated. (except of certain special new ones that only our group knows about) Firstly, over the millenia these places shift their position somewhat, so for example Stonehenge is no longer sacred. Secondly, these places are energetic centres on our planet, just like we have energetic centres called chakras. It is a common knowledge that by visiting such place one may get a temporary energetic boost (or get over-energetized which is quite unpleasant) but it has nothing to do with bridging the gaps between worlds. I am not completely sure myself how such a thing would work, but surely it requires more knowledge and skill than just visiting a raw energy source.

 

Well, approximately, less or more, something like that. But you're missing several different concepts. Human being is multi-dimensional. We are as much ghosts as ghosts are, only they lost their physical body. Birth and death belong to physical world. In astral world the death is a slow dissolution of more coarse layer of astral body, which results in increased consciousness, not otherwise. And vice versa.

 

 

Can you please point me at some resource of that? I want to know how much wholly they embrace the transcendental experiences. As someone who has them quite often I'm curious how much they delved into my field.

 

It is a technical problem. For all previous human history the only technology people had to detect mystical things was their own nerve system. They spent an awful lot of time in temples, monasteries and mystical schools training and purifying their body to achieve the necessary sensitivity of nerves. Are you willing to make such a sacrifice?
As for mediums and astral clairvoyance, rather than ability this is atavism, an inability to isolate oneself from this ancient astral sensitivity of animal origin. It's  notoriously imprecise and also plays a role in some mental disorders.

No, you are not willing to spend several years on diet, exercise and mystical training, perfecting your bodily instrument for mystical perception. So you must realize that to replace the lazy human senses there must be a new technology so sensitive that will detect something that no technology ever detected. Well, except of Wilhelm Reich, Nikola Tesla, Semjon Kirlian, Harry Oldfield, and several other people. There is almost nothing ready for scientific community to accept, first you must develop the technology or continue developing the basic technology that already exists.

I don't believe there is currently any effective ghost-hunting equipment. Only powerful clairvoyant people with certain special techniques can do that job. For example, there are buildings in my region in which Nazi Gestapo "interrogated" the prisoners and these buildings are... well, not exactly haunted, but highly contaminated with astral miasma of extreme fear and suffering. Not a good place to feel at home. Cleaning such place is a complex effort of several people of several abilities. But the main work is done spiritually, the outwardly rituals are not spectacular.

You should consider, that the "ghosts" that haunt places are not completely conscious or sane. The reason why they remain imprisoned in such a low state of being is a strong emotion, desire or suffering, they don't think clearly. Many of such cases are not even ghosts, just empty shells of the coarse layers astral body, which form a vile astral sediment on the lowest sub-dimension. (which is closest to us, physically) These can be ocassionally agitated into sort of a pseudo-life or pseudo-consciousness by astral currents, but they're no better than a replayed record of past things, none of these have any interest in scientific examination.
Those astral inhabitants of clearer mind and good intention can be rather found on higher astral sub-levels, but these are in return much more distant and isolated from our world.

To come up with solid, physical and controlled evidence, you need the work of scientists in the first place. When we perceive the mystical stuff, we do not accomodate it to the physical standards, we accomodate ourselves to the mystical standards. Therefore it is a subjective experience. The proverbial Muhammad goes to the mountain, not the mountain to Muhammad. To bring the mountain of evidence to Muhammad, there must be first a substantial investment of money, resources and scientists.

Scientists must organize those who develop the technology - like aura vision cameras, those who have the sensitivity and abilities (like me), and employ experts both from fields of neurology, engineering and physics.

Did I explain it enough?

Well, I just had a bit of fun in all seriousness with Blake and AIGS. No sweat. But Mellestad, for you I will try my best and shortest to explain.
Blake's elaborate writings are not consistent, they're less or more random. What I present is just incomplete, it is based on dozens of textbooks from Theosophic publishers. I can only give a short examples and interpretations taken out of context, I can't present the teachings in all their consistency. The more brevity and simplicity I have, the less precision and potential evidence.

I know I ignore the scientific method, because there is a need for preliminary research prior to applying the scientific method. There are many potential results, but nothing yet universally agreed on. Without this preliminary research, nobody really knows on what exactly the scientific method should be applied. Not even the clairvoyants themselves, they don't know what this all is, they only use it.

I have to fumble for words to describe completely new things. Some words, like dark matter I mean literally. But other words like energy and vibration are abstractions, we don't know what exactly they are made of, it is just a closest description of how they behave. These words are chosen by those who observed the energy of various vibration. The abstractions are words to describe quality like color or flavor of neutrinos.
I hope you noticed that I usually avoid the quantum word, because I don't have much to say about it. But all that is still better than using completely foreign words that nobody understands and therefore nobody wants to use.

You should notice by now, that the woo people are very informal, they don't think about formalities like paperwork, protocol or defining exact terms. They rely upon "ah, I intuitively understand what you mean because we both experienced the same thing." There is a serious problem of language barrier. Skeptics don't think it's a language barrier but talking nonsense. No, it is a jargon describing specific phenomena, used by people who are not good at systematic thinking and making dictionaries. Here the skeptic needs etnograph and linguist along with him.

Consider, that we are still in the stage of preliminary research. Which means, all the assertions must be gathered into a complex theory of assertions which the participants must study. (Theosophic bibliography can be considered as such) Also, kind of a lingua franca must be developed between the woo folk and skeptic folk. This and several more steps of mutual cooperation must be made, before there will be developed something on which the scientific method may be applied.

No, it's very inconvenient. You still think "inside the box". By this very abused term I mean that you try to test something radically new (outside of the box) by very old, unsuitable and conventional methods and thinking. If that would work, scientists would accept the woo as reality long ago. Firstly, skeptics must ask what exactly the woo is, then they must admit that it is something entirely unknown, and then they must try to describe it by new terms.

Secondly, scan my brain and should see that I indeed perceive the supernatural. Or brains of people like me, because one may be not enough. We're here, study us.

If I ever thought there is a conspiracy, then not anymore, except of local ex-communistic skeptic club leaders, because they swore to conspire against us publically. But there are mainly people who think they're a step ahead, that they don't need the preliminary research. That the science of today is the preliminary research, which is not true. If that would be true, scientists would know what I'm talking about, either from study or from practice.

Please do so, when you'll have time.

 

 

Well, I will grant that the so called sacred places are overrated. Evidence the new age crystal loving people who want to find those places thinking that they can, well I don't know what they expect but they are not likely to find what they are after.

 

That being said, my information is that they are not really like batteries that one can stand next to and get a charge from.

 

A better analogy would be something like a river. It meanders around the land but mostly tends to stay in the valleys because those are the lower energy paths to the ocean. Occasionally, two rivers will meet and join to form a larger river. The places where the rivers come together are a fair approximation of what a sacred place would be like.

 

And of course they move around slowly over time. After all, rivers change their course over centuries. It only makes sense that the paths of connections from world to world would be similar in some sense.

 

 

 

From what I am given to understand, that is not really quite right. Every world is physical in the context of that world. Here I am reminded that you like to talk of worlds made of dark matter.

 

Well, I am not sure what you mean by that unless you are speaking of worlds that are just not really ones that are trivially connected to ours. Sure, the stuff from such a world is not a “thing” in the sense that we call our world as the physical one. However, to the beings who live in such worlds, what they easily perceive is the world around them and in which they are embedded.

 

Really, a being native to a dark matter world will see what is around it as real things. Such a being will have real relationships with it's specific cohort. It will have real cultural values and so forth. Seriously, it will call it's world real. If it were to attempt to deal with our world in some meaningful way, it would have as much trouble apprehending we would have dealing with it's.

 

Note that I am avoiding the use of masculine pronouns here. Different worlds are different and there is no reason to assume that the same rules apply across all possible worlds.

 

Regarding the idea of backup personalities: Perhaps you have not become aware of the work of Hugh Everett. He developed an interpretation of quantum mechanics that is supported by such scientific minds as Richard Feynman.

 

Under his model, consider what might have been if you had made different choices ten years ago. Instead of Luminon the astrologer, you might have become Luminon the guitarist. Now if the astrologer version of you were to encounter a being that eats souls for lunch, well that would be the end of the line. Would the guitarist version be countable as a back up personality? Well, possibly but it would not be “you”. At least not in the sense that you currently consider.

Everything in its due time. Scientific method doesn't mean that you can skip the preliminary research. The goal is to have the theory, material, equipment, personnel and publishers so well prepared, that the success will be certain and scientific method will be just a formality of demonstrating the obviousness of the success.

Nope. This stuff has been around in esoteric form, intentionally hidden in mystery schools behind special jargon and secret meaning of symbols. During history, the organized religion was hijacked by rulers and the esoteric sects were outlawed. The true meaning of symbols was lost.
Then there came madame H. P. Blavatsky and other Theosophic leaders and they gave the esoteric teaching back to the world, this time in clear and systematic form of textbooks, in modern language. Theosophy does not refuse other religions and traditions, it explains them and purifies them from emperors' additions and outdated practices.
Before you can come with unproven hypothesis, you must have it edited into a simple and clear form, accustomed to the standards of people who will read it. It must contain everything important, plus references to side topics. This teaching is so large, that any such publication will serve only as introduction and overview of content and topics.

It is fascinating how you ignore one basic thing. Clairvoyant people are instruments! But nobody's instrument is the same. There are sub-levels of subtle matter, under normal circumstances equivalent to solid, liquid and gaseous. Clairvoyants have various sensitivity to them. Nobody can guarantee that they can see all the sub-levels or at least the same sub-levels as someone else. Astral world has 7 sub-levels and someone is able to see only the highest one, or the lowest one, or so. I am lucky that my etheric sensitivity is quite versatile, but I can not guarantee that for anyone else.

Another purpose of the preliminary research is to gather such people together and determine who is sensitive to what and how much percent. You can not start any serious work without thereby standardized, calibrated instruments! Shame to the skeptics who ignore this fact and let the unprepared people fail in their hasty makeshift versions of "scientific method."

Oh, you didn't know that each world has seven sub-levels and that not everyone clairvoyant sees, hears or touches all of them equally well? What did you think, that we're perfect detectors or what?

Right, that's how it is with most of woo folk. I am in a small elite group that works according to Theosophic textbooks. I should have rather said that Blake is externally inconsistent, because he ignores all previous esoteric traditions, so his writings are just like the New Age mumbo jumbo. In fact, Theosophists coined many commonly used terms that people use too  loosely now, like "new age". I should be the one basing woo folk for incorrect language. (which I sometimes do, on other forum)

Psychology based on study of ordinary or mentally ill people can not be used on people who rule their mind and are aware of their inner processes. Psychologists are not equipped to study extraordinary phenomena and states of consciousness, because people having them are too rare. This is what Esoteric psychology is meant for, because common psychology can't be used. (yes, esotericism has its own psychology, astrology, medicine, cosmology, etc, it's quite a broad teaching)

Some of my most profound observations were made in state of meditation, in total attention and no emotion. People like me and our inner life is way out of standard psychologic charts. For example, Robert Allan Monroe spent many years by astral travelling in full consciousness, and yet he was found completely physically and mentally healthy. He was a technical type, (audio technician and inventor) without fantasy to make up stories.

Firstly, Blake just makes it up as he goes, he does not have any more sources to back him up. He has nothing for serious students. But I have Theosophic leaders and post-theosophic authors. Those who know their books, know the difference between me and Blake. Laymen like you can know nothing about it, so you'd better read some of the books, before criticising. Theosophic textbooks put esotericism into order which differs sharply from random Blake's writings.

Secondly, languages develop. They change and new languages appear. You can not say I misuse words, because they have a technical meaning when it comes to esotericism. There is an esoteric jargon. It's like business English, I thought I knew English words, but all my tests went out badly until I admitted to myself that there is such a strange jargon called business English with a little different meanings and that it must be learned and used properly to make the tests give sense to my teacher.

LOL I was going to say dark matter but you beat me to it.

5) Wear your medical bike helmet.

You may laugh, but skepticism doesn't help me to get rid of the malicious astral vermin that was bothering me until lately. Hopefully they will no more. I don't care that this was a unique opportunity to study ghosts or record them by night vision camera, these paricular ones are evil-doers and I want them out of my place. Pretty much most of astral beings that bother to come into direct contact with people do so for selfish or even malicious interests. If they wouldn't be somehow fucked up, they wouldn't stay in low astral sub-dimension from where they can bother honest folk like my family and cooperate with scoundrels like certain mediums in my region.
It has to do with coarse astral matter in their bodies, which is drawn in them by coarse character properties. Without the low character, they wouldn't have the coarse sub-level of matter and natural "buoyancy" would take them higher, away from the coarse levels so qualitatively close to our matter.

Tamas, do you really think that an ordinary heat camera can record a ghost? I really doubt so, such photographs or videos would be all over the internet. Maybe aura photography or polycontrast interference photography would work, under certain special circumstances.

What is this etheric and astral matter you speak of? What is it composed of, if it's actual matter?

What are it's properties?

Unless you can elaborate on your claimed etheric and astral matter, you are nothing but a poseur and a fraud, and use the only tool you have in lieu of anything tangible to add to a discussion, which is the ad hominem.

Unless it is you that is truly the ignorant one, elaborate on your alleged etheric and astral matter, in a way that is falsifiable.

We are talking about ghosts. Since ghosts are reportedly seen, heard, and felt, they must be made of matter, otherwise humans could not 'detect' them at all.

As such, there is no evidence of 'ghosts', since man has instruments that are exponentially more 'sensitive' and capable of accurately quantifying 'matter'.

 

 

You can see strange things here:

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=hu&geocode=&q=Budapest,+Gazdagr%C3%A9t&sll=47.498406,19.040758&sspn=0.392459,0.88302...

Especially at night, you can see the through the walls of the tall buildings where there is no window. You can see it from the bus.

You are NOT allowed to leave the bus. The area is closed. You are not allowed to step on the ground, the pavement is not allowed to be used.

You can only use the bus 153. It goes to the top of the hill, it turns back and goes down.

 

Who sets these rules? Not allowed by whom?

And none of those waves or radiations are visible or detectable  without instruments, so how do any of those allow you to actually 'see' them??

Do you see the radiation coming off cell-phone towers, or cell-phones, or radio/tv broadcasting towers, or around power lines, or even from the power wiring in your house, all of which are far stronger than anything generated by our brains?

This is a fact, how exactly? 

So, you're admitting you're just speculating.

Good. At least we're clear on that.

Ah yes, the apex of theist mentality.

Idealogy.

It doesn't appear that you are in need of empirical evidence to make claims, at all, so, I'm quite surprised to hear you say that there is any need whatsoever for any sort of scientific method.

You mean it's a fact that there is matter that we cannot measure? How would we know that?

That's non sequitur.

That's supposed to make sense? You've got to be kidding me...

You seem to have extensive and comprehensive understanding of things that apparently, 'we' (as humans) cannot measure and quantify.

You are developing into one of the internet kings of BS baffles brains...

You mean after humans have been 'tweaked' and 'calibrated, and 'tuned' to this matter?

You should be talking to Randi at the JREF. There's a million dollars that would aid your 'research'....

Have you any peer reviewed data to back up your claims, or are we supposed to take your words here as 'data'? 

Explain to the forum how you've arrived at your numerous conclusions...

How? Quite well, among those interested in the topics of etheric matter. And I don't remember using the word 'fact' any time recently.

Not just that. I observe, hear out testimonies, read other people's observations, deduce and yes, I also speculate or in other words, hypothesize.

Don't know what kind of ideology do you mean, and I doubt you know it yourself yet. It is a complex theory or teaching that does not claim any obligation for people to follow it, unless they find that it gives them useful and consistent knowledge of things otherwise unknowable. I think real ideologies are more.... ambitious than that.

Standards for evidence in daily life and scientific evidence are different. Common evidence is enough to convince one or more people who live in uncontrolled circumstances. Scientific evidence must be so much under our control, that we are able to reproduce it in controlled circumstances. This kind of evidence is enough to convince everyone rational.

There is a long, diffcult and costly process between converting common evidence on scientific evidence. I am not a scientist, patron of research or someone who decides about government funding, so obviously I work with the kind of ephemeral, common daily evidence, by which we come to conclusions that things happen even if we sometimes have no control to reproduce them in front of any doubter, specially if the doubter is not present.

Only if it would be an absolutistic claim. Either we can measure it or can't, which is not what I say. I say that certain scarce and  measurements that were already taken by various people are related to the same phenomenon and should be considered an evidence for it. Namely, these are measurements of dark matter or etheric matter or different names for it, which participates on many vital and conscious processes and after death serves as a substantial part of the ghost entity. Considered separately, they give very little clues, so I say that they should be considered together.

Dark matter has a different atomic structure. Trying to detect dark matter through a non-specific mechanism made of normal matter is like trying to propel a sailboat with a fishnet sails. The standard laws of atomic bonds that supply the collision and other effects do not apply here, due to difference in atomic structure. If the instrument is not precisely build to detect dark matter, you need to compensate it with extreme sensitivity of the instrument and even then the measurement is not impressive.
On the other side, if you know exactly what effect to search for, even a device of standard materials should be sufficient to detect the etheric matter.

We humans are not naturally equipped to measure and quantify things objectively. This is why we invented measuring instruments and units. But with proper training we can take advantage of what participates on our living functions, which are the levels of subtle matter. We can use their sensitivity to sense the otherwise invisible world around, just like we use our physical sense to detect the physical world.
As for you, I have yet to see you using something to baffle. So far, I'm just trying to get you understand the basic diffculties, from downright philosophic point of view. I think this is caused by government-funded popularized science, people tend to forget that scientific method is not infallible, it just logically elaborates upon input data. It pays no attention to the effort of getting them, that's up to us, fallible mortals.

Exactly. People usually don't just start having skills out of nowhere, skills take years to learn. Some skills are more favored in our society than other. Those who want to see and work with unseen things, must practice certain disciplines, that are often irreconcilable with modern life style, stress, eating habits and 9-5 employment.

The problem is, he gives them out after the research is succesfully done. But the participants of the million dollar challenge do no good research in advance. They are not researchers. To reproduce something in controlled circumstances, you must understand it thoroughly. But they don't understand it, they just use it. And so they fail to prove anything, if their claims are meant seriously, I mean. James Randi would give the million only afterwards, but to make a proper research the participants would need to spend it in advance. You know, to prepare the objective evidence. So far they needed no objective evidence, no paperwork, no statistics, everything was between them and other people. And suddenly here comes Randi and has such a demands they are not prepared to meet, because preparation is complicated and expensive.

As I said, I have no personnel, funds, buildings and time to work on an objective scientific evidence that you demand. I just want to point out some things ignored by promoters of scientific method, for example the circular problem with it. If someone wants to prove something outside of science, he needs objective evidence and then receives funds. But if the evidence is beyond current scientific knowledge, he needs funds first to research the objective evidence. I believe many professionals, half-professionals and amateurs get discouraged by that and their amounts sum up to the shady cathegory of so-called "dissident science." Remember, these are not-exactly-material phenomena we discuss here, and so initial evidence for them does not come up as readily as it was until now with study of common material things. They need initial investment, looks like the science didn't yet understand that. This is no surprise after the historically recent times when scientists researched ordinary things that lie everywhere around us, like air, water, stones, germs or astronomic objects and they didn't have such diffculties. Either they discovered something and could show it to everyone, or they didn't discover anything.

How I came to my conclusions? I have eyes for seeing, ears for hearing and etheric touch sense for etheric perception. For many years I live in close contact with sub-culture of less or more similar people or interested people, and so I can study the people, study what they do and sometimes even make experiments with them. Of course, all in very informal environment. One minute in my place would shake doubts of any doubter and certain experiences would scare the hell out of them. But soon the doubters would see, that i am a user of skills, not the one who understands their principle. Scientific understanding for reproduction in controlled environment requires to know what's going on in terms of biology, neurology and physics, which I don't know very well.

James Randi does not ask for a 'research project', simply that the claimants demonstrate their ability with some pre-agreed checks and conditions in place to eliminate the possibility of various non-paranormal explanations.

deleted

Here I presume you mean the countless different gods who can't be all real, as a metaphorical comparison.
If that's really the case... Etheric matter is an umbrella term, meaning a broad cathegory of matter (and energy contained in that matter) that is also called 'dark matter.'
Our visible matter supports all the complexity of natural phenomena. Etheric matter most probably supports a similar or much higher amount of natural phenomena. It is therefore expectable, that researchers of etheric matter will discover different properties of this broad material cathegory. Someone may discover how it participates on living organisms. Someone may see its atmospheric effects. Someone else may detect it in cosmos. There are countless applications.

I want to see someone who doesn't think like dark matter must be necessarily a mere galactic suspension of elementary particles. I want to see someone who can consider, that dark matter can exist also in form of atoms, that are fully capable of bonding and forming chemical reactions or even life. And then I want someone to consider, that we evolved in this environment and that our biology and psychology may be less or more interwoven with biologic functions of dark matter, and what would that mean in context of countless traditions that seem to spring in every culture like that would be a fact. And then I want that someone to pay the bill for all the beer we just drank together

I have some bad experiences with discussion with stern guys like you. Some of them were trolling, misinterpreting me, or interpreting everything in their favor, though it destroyed the purpose of discussion. Since then I'm rather careful.

The problem is, that people can't know if that's senseless crap or not, because they haven't read anything about it.
They can only read peer-reviewed publications, but how does one get peer-reviewed, when one has no peers? Those used to dozen-times proven technical information will be unwilling or even unable to read unverified information from various sources, assuming that all unverified sources are equally meaningless and unverifiable. Which they can not know, of course. They just don't realize, that before there can be any succesful research, there first must be a research on what exactly to research.

You surely don't think that all that could be discovered was already discovered. But maybe you think, that all that could be verified from the crap, was already verified. This is a dangerous assumption. It assumes, that there are actually people systematically comparing these "transcendent teachings etc." to the science, if they match together. It assumes, that they must be followers of these teachings, because the burden of proof is on them. But it also assumes, that these followers are also members of scientific community and write hypotheses, which they test as scientists and submit results for peer review. And since you saw no breakthrough from that direction, you assume it is all crap.
Is that what you assume?
 

Yeah, and who said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?"

You should read about a dozen of books on the topic before saying something like that. I know the burden of proof is on the claimant, etc, but nobody can read the books for you.

In that case, the corruption in government funding of science is far greater than I could ever imagine.

You can only say that with certainity in retrospective. Yes, the evidence is the same, but circumstances around it are various. In some circumstances, the same evidence will convince different number or different type of people. The most basic criterium is, (triple duh) if these people are present or not.

Philosophy of science should try to solve the problem of evidence, that we may not understand, and therefore may not have it under our control, and therefore may not be able to reproduce it under controlled circumstances. Here I'm tempted to quote a sci-fi writer: (you see, I don't hide that he's a sci-fi writer, I just really agree with the quote)
"By adhering to controlled circumstances they [scientists] only limited their field of activity." - Orson Scott Card
Everything depends on our understanding of the evidence, and therefore our ability to reproduce it out of it's natural circumstances. There's a plenty of phenomena in the world that we can currently only observe on random ocassions, because we don't understand it enough to be ble to reproduce it.

That's not up to me to say if it was already considered or not. I personally doubt it. But anyway, when science advances, there are new things discovered and old discoveries, yes, even old traditions should be re-interpreted in the light of new discovery.

Unfortunately yes, this field of knowledge is so neglected, that even I could be counted as one of experts on it. I really wish that many people would know much more on this topic than I do.

See? I doubt that the participants have any practice with work in 'proper observing conditions.'  These are not their usual working conditions. That may be a great problem, if the thing they try to test is supposed to be mentally controlled. They can be simply too stressed, which is a problem, when testing something related to mentality.
But most of the time I guess they have no idea, in technical terms, what they are exactly trying to do. They are just users, they don't understand inner occult workings. No wonder they are unable to reproduce their phenomena above Randi's crossbar. I know many people like that, psychics, clairvoyants, etc. They do not devote any time, money and laboratory equipment to study what their talent is about, they just use it in daily life. That's what makes them unprepared.

When it comes to phenomena not quite physical, that however sometimes manifest through humans, then he is asking much. Scientific method works well when you search for physical evidence for physical phenomena. When it comes to not-quite-physical phenomena and evidence, it becomes hell a lot more diffcult. It requires a major investment or leap into the blind, that must be taken by someone fully equipped to understand what's going on. People like psychics, with exception of frauds, are just users with no technical understanding of what they do.

Such a discovery will necessarily mean a scientific paradigm shift. A paradigm shift requires new textbooks, new technical terminology, new technology and sometimes new people in the chairs. What skeptics are asking from complete amateurs, is to revolutionize science. They ask wrong people. They should ask the correct people, (professional yet interested in the subject) give them funding and let them hire some carefully chosen psychics as research subjects, not researchers themselves.

I'm not asking you to believe me, just to do the mental gymnastics. When people do mental gymnastics as I say, they usually say that what I say is possible and could be tried, but they personally have no time for that, to test everything that could be possible. They say the burden of proof is upon me. I say that currently I don't have the means or contacts on people to do it. So that's what they say.
But this time I only try to refute the misconceptions that you seem to have about the process of gaining scientific knowledge. It is quite a light philosophic debate, I have to say, for the audience.

Good! That sounds very nice. Tell me, are there any opportunities to unofficially consult and polish a hypothesis with one or more scientists? Let's say I have an idea but I need to put it into technical terms, preferably without getting a doctorate in the field. So I need someone else who will be inspired by the idea and will translate it into technical jargon and correct some formal mistakes. I need someone to consult, or to pass the idea. Science is supposed to be a cooperative effort!

Correct. This is, because it's not that easy to get tested for such things. People can have their brain checked for a disease, but only medical doctor can decide that. Insurance companies pay for medical expenses. But who will pay for a study out of curiosity, or desire for knowledge? Nope, here someone must take my claim (or my money) seriously, otherwise nothing will happen. Everything begins with a claim. Even if I'd say that I have an evidence, that is a claim and someone must spend time to go and see it. Many people will not.

This is why the science is mistrusted as a closed-minded society on the top of ivory tower. Hell, I could be seen as very open and diplomatic, compared to whole sub-culture of alternative life style and alternative methods of gaining knowledge, which doesn't even bother about convincing scientists, or even get to know them. Scientists are similarly isolated and mistrustful. And they wonder why the public is turning away from them, to the woo-woo practices, psychics, facilitators, dowsers, mediums, astrologers, homeopaths, bioenergy, prana, chi, chakras, meridians, past lives, and so on. Skeptics can forever speak against these things, but they will not be accepted by the public until they win the public respect. When people have a problem, they go to astrologer, regression therapist, healer or crystal gazer, not to skeptic or scientist. Then if that helped, they recommend the service they received to their family members and friends. With skeptics there is nothing like that happening, they have nothing positive to offer to solve people's problems and therefore replace above mentioned practitioners. Science, so fast and well funded in other areas,  seems to be so fucking slow in the most important problems of daily life, relationships, consciousness, and paranormal happenings that so often happen to so many people. No wonder skeptics lose. I'm trying to help. This is a conflict between two sub-cultures and you can hardly expect anyone to revolutionize the worldview in the middle of dispute. Truth can't arise in dispute, both sides try to bend it in their favor.